LF: Three Articles that help explain Israel

Title: Three Articles that help explain Israel
Source: WELS (Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod)
URL Source: http://www.wels.net/news-events/for ... december-2008/invisible-church
Published: Jun 24, 2012
Author: various - Noted at end of each article.
Post Date: 2012-06-24 10:03:21 by SJN
Keywords: None
Views: 243435
Comments: 482

As the Bible describes the church, it becomes clear that the church is both what we see and what we cannot see.

Church. The word paints a picture. You see the building in which you worship. It may be a small, white-frame building set on a hill in the quiet countryside. Or it may be a large, stone structure occupying a street corner in a busy city. It’s not unusual for us to think of a building when we think of church. Worship is an important part of our lives, and that worship takes place in a building we love, whether it is fancy or plain.

But that is not the way the word church is used in the Bible. In Scripture, church most often refers to people and not to buildings.

In the New Testament the word ecclesia is often translated as church. Ecclesia refers to a group of people who have been called together. It is an assembly. Yet even that definition does not fully explain what the church is. As the Bible describes the church, it becomes clear that the church is both what we see and what we cannot see. The church is both visible and invisible.

Why would we call a church invisible? You can see a building. You can see the people who gather in that building. Yet we do speak of the church as invisible in the Apostles’ Creed when we confess “I believe in the holy Christian church, the communion of saints.” Sometimes people mistakenly use the term saint to refer to a person who does an abundance of good deeds, someone who helps others. But the Bible uses the term to describe simply a believer. We even distinguish between believers who have been called home to heaven and those who still battle in this world. We speak of saints triumphant and saints militant.

The apostle Peter describes these believers as “a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God” (1 Peter 2:9). Together all believers form the holy Christian church, a “spiritual house” made up of living stones chosen by God. When the Holy Spirit works faith in our hearts, we become part of this structure. The Lord Jesus can see the faith in our hearts. We, however, can only see the fruits of faith and not the faith itself. Because we cannot see faith, the church is invisible to our eyes. The prophet Elijah did not recognize that there were still seven thousand believers in Israel (1 Kings 19:8-18). He thought that he was the only believer left. Likewise, we cannot always tell whether a person is a believer or an unbeliever.

As the Bible describes the church, it becomes clear that the church is both what we see and what we cannot see.

Although the church may be invisible to us, the Lord sees his church clearly. “The Lord knows those who are his” (2 Timothy 2:19). At the same time each person knows what is in his or her heart. Trusting in the promises the Lord gives us, we know that we belong to that communion of saints, the church of God.

This invisible gathering of all believers is not limited by geography. The apostle John reminds us that believers come from different places and “from every nation, tribe, people and language” (Revelation 7:9). In addition, the church is not limited by time. All believers who have lived, are now living, and will live until Jesus returns at the end of time—all these believers are part of this church. The church, the body of all believers, is invisible, and it is also universal. Once again we confess this fact in the Third Article of the Apostles’ Creed. “I believe in the holy Christian church.” The first people who used this confession of faith said, “I believe in the holy catholic church.” The word catholic originally had no denominational connotation. It simply meant universal. When catholic became associated with a particular organization, the word Christian was substituted to prevent confusion. In the Apostles’ Creed we confess that we believe that the Lord gathers together everyone whose faith is in Jesus Christ as the Savior.

People believe in many things. We say that we believe in our team, in our country, and in people who are dear to us. Likewise, many people believe in some religious figure other than Christ. God’s invisible church gathers together only those people who confess Jesus as their Savior. We distinguish ourselves from the followers of Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, and every other religion. We confess that Jesus Christ is true man and true God. We believe that Christ is sinless and perfect and that he is the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.

As the Bible describes the church, it becomes clear that the church is both what we see and what we cannot see.

In a world that suggests that it does not matter what you believe as long as you believe, it becomes important to remember that the invisible church gathers together all believers in Christ. Without faith in Jesus we cannot be saved. Without Jesus we have no part in the communion of saints, the gathering of all believers. Jesus makes that clear when he says, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me” (John 14:6).

People die. Church buildings may fall apart. Congregations may disband. But the invisible church continues. The Lord has promised that there will always be true believers who are kept faithful by the power of God. “My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand” (John 10:27,28). What a comfort it is to know that the Holy Spirit, who calls us to faith, also preserves us in that faith through the gospel in Word and sacraments!

It is easy to become attached to a congregation. It is in that fellowship that we listen to the good news of Jesus proclaimed. There we hear that our sins are forgiven. In our congregation we draw close to Jesus as we receive the sacrament of his body and blood. Likewise the building in which a congregation worships may be a special place. It may be the same structure in which we were baptized, confirmed, and married. It reminds us of all the blessings God has showered upon us.

But we are part of something that is even more valuable, the holy Christian church. Our triune God has brought us together with people we may never see or know on this side of eternity. Through faith the Lord has made us a part of the congregation of all believers. Right now we are not able to see this church in its entirety. Yet what is invisible to our eyes now will be seen when the Lord returns in glory. What a joy it will be to see all believers from every part of the world and from all times! The day will come when we will gather together and praise the God of grace who gives us membership in his family, the invisible church. That church is not really invisible. It is only invisible to us. God sees it clearly.

James Korthals, a professor at Wisconsin Lutheran Seminary, Mequon, Wisconsin, is a member at David’s Star, Jackson.

The word "temple" in our modern society usually describes a large, beautiful building which is used for the worship of some god. The use of such temples goes back thousands of years. Peter used it to paint a beautiful word picture of Jesus and his church in 2:4-8.

Jesus is pictured in many ways in John's gospel. Peter adds his own picture here, when he writes, "The Lord Jesus is the living stone" (v. 4). In verse 6 he gives the original source for this statement (Isaiah 28:16), where God said, "Look! I'm laying a stone in Zion [another name for Israel], a very special cornerstone of great value, and the person who believes in him will never be disappointed."

In the ancient world the cornerstone was more than a stone on which was carved the date of construction. The cornerstone determined the length, the width, and the height of the building, so that the whole building depended on that cornerstone.

That is the picture Peter uses to describe the church in verse 5a, where he says, "And since you are living stones, as you come to him you are built up into a spiritual temple," of which Jesus is the cornerstone. The church is built on Jesus, and around Jesus, the cornerstone. And it is made up of people who are like Jesus--perfectly holy beings in God's sight. That is the way God sees every person who truly believes in Jesus as his or her Savior, because our God-given faith makes us new creatures who are perfectly holy in God's sight, and every such person "will never be disappointed" on Judgment Day.

Then Peter explains in verse 7, "This means that he's of great value to you people who believe in him, but for those who don't believe in him, 'the stone which the builders [the Jewish nation as a whole] decided was no good, is the very one which has become the cornerstone'; and 'the stone which will make people stumble, and the rock which will make them fall.' "How clear Peter makes it that Jesus is the difference between eternal life and eternal damnation.

Next Peter uses a new metaphor in verse 5 when he says that the believers who come to Jesus as living stones "are built up into a spiritual temple, to be a holy group of priests, who offer up spiritual sacrifices which God is happy to receive." He continues in verses 9,10, "There was a time when you were no people at all, but now you are God's people. You who never knew God's mercy have now received his mercy." Praise the Lord!

Peter is reminding us that there was a time when we were all outsiders, so far as God is concerned, unbelievers who had never heard of the triune God. But now that we have heard the good news and have come to believe it, we are God's people, while the Jews, as a nation, have rejected their Messiah and are outsiders.

Now you must take note of the fact that every believer is a priest whose principal occupation it is to offer spiritual sacrifices to our triune God each day of our lives. Yes, from morning to evening we offer our God our thanks and praises for the undeserved love he has shown us by sending first his Son to atone for all our sins, and then his Holy Spirit who has brought us to believe the good news that all our sins are forgiven by Jesus' death on the cross, so that we are now God's children who are perfectly holy in God's sight.

Our task as priests is to also bring him our other sacrifices. First there are our time and our talents which we spend carrying out the different tasks we can do as members of our congregations. In some cases we may give our Lord all of our time and talents to serve as pastors, teachers, missionaries, or church office workers.

All of us, whether we are active workers or not, can offer the Lord a portion of our financial resources, which represent the value of our time spent in some gainful occupation.

And of course the temple in which we serve is known to us as the church, the whole body of believers. The picture of the church that Peter gives us here is perhaps the most complete picture to be found anywhere in the Bible.

Julian Anderson is a retired pastor and seminary professor living in Naples, Florida.

Concentrating on the Lord is daunting when dangers clamor for attention. Think back 300 years before Samuel. Following the death of those who carved a Jewish homeland out of Canaan, “another generation grew up, who knew neither the Lord nor what he had done for Israel” (Judges 2:10).

To awaken his spiritually-anesthetized people, God enlisted neighboring nations to harass, enslave, and terrorize Israel. Slapped to consciousness, God’s people recognized their sin, pleaded for forgiveness, and prayed for relief. God then raised up leaders—judges—who with the Lord’s power pushed back the oppressors. Moral and spiritual health flourished. But “when the judge died, the people returned to ways even more corrupt than those of their fathers . . .” (Judges 2:19).

This cycle of godlessness, oppression, repentance, freedom, upright living, and a return to godlessness repeated itself until Samuel. Remember Eli and his sons? 1 Samuel 7 brings us to a repentance and freedom section of that cycle and to Samuel as Israel’s final judge.

The Ark of the Covenant remained in the border town of Kiriath-Jearim for 20 years after the Philistines captured it and then returned it to stem a Lord-induced plague. During those two decades “all the people of Israel mourned and sought after the Lord” (7:2).

To confirm that renaissance of faith, Samuel summoned his countrymen to a spiritually essential, but politically provocative, act—national purification and rededication. Israel was not a free country. Philistine overlords kept close watch. When their surveillance noticed huge numbers of Israelites staging at Mizpah (literally, “look out point”), their early-warning alarms wailed. Mizpah was a military gem mounted in hills about eight miles north of Jerusalem.

Soon the sound of Philistine marching boots, the clank of armor, and the bellow of war trumpets echoed off Mizpah. “When the Israelites heard of it, they were afraid . . .” (7:7). No doubt. Concentrating on the Lord is daunting when dangers (dare we add personal problems or financial difficulties) clamor for attention.

Samuel, however, urged Israel to fasten on God. “Do not stop crying out to the Lord our God for us, that he may rescue us” (7:8). Strength was not in their military might, but in the Lord’s omnipotence.

God confirmed that. With Israeli knees bent in prayer and without an Israeli sword unsheathed, God’s deafening thunder routed the Philistine army. Panicked, the troops stumbled south toward safety. Their backs made easy targets.

The Philistine losses that day did not completely free Israel. We await Saul and David to accomplish that. Israel, however, did enjoy a season of peace with Philistia and, as a fringe benefit, with the Amorites.

To mark the victory, Samuel set up a monument called Ebenezer (“stone of help”). Ebenezer stones (church cornerstones, wedding anniversaries, birthdays) remind us, “Thus far has the Lord helped us.” But our most conclusive proof that there’s always an upside in our downside world is Jesus, “the stone the builders rejected [that] has become the capstone” (1 Peter 2:7).

I see the tracts are getting under the skin a bit. Perhaps you would like to take it beyond a 23 page tract, Biff?

As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV)

"The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to convince the world he didn't exist."

As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV)

And just like that you disappear!!! You were given a padded room by Stonie for a reason. Enjoy your silence:

As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV)

Just to get confirmation based on your post...are you a preterist? If you are, because Chuck Coty is, then you should really put up some actual quotes from Scofield that show how he is a zionist or encouraged zionism.

As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV)

We have free will exactly so we can determine our own paths. Even in the midst of evil, some people have acted righteously and nobly. (Think Hitler and people hiding/helping Jews at their own risk).

What is interesting is men like Scofield and Ironside wrote their books well before Israel became a nation again. Not one of the dispensational writers equate the current nation of Israel to the prophetic Israel after the second Coming of Christ. Gentlemen like Scofield, Ironside and Ryrie are used as "striking posts" for preterists who do not believe in a physical second Coming of Christ and a physical Kingdom on earth for 1000 years as mentioned in Revelation. They believe all has been fulfilled. Some preterists believe there will be a Second Coming but it will not be like Revelation outlines. Some believe along with the postmillennials that the Second Coming is real but there is no 1000 years of Christ's reign on earth.

In both cases I see more of a straying from the Bible than they claim of the premillennials. At the two extremes I see major issues. One is given over to detailed timelines that many take as "certain." On the flip side the other group thinks all prophecy is fulfilled to include Revelation or discard Revelation. Like you, I try to keep it simple and look at what HAS BEEN revealed and not try to go off on tangents that are not there. In the end all this prophecy sniping has accomplished one thing. Dividing the Body of Christ. To the point where one side calls the other the "h" word and end fellowship. Just the "thing" the adversary wants to see.

If you are interested, John MacArthur has a sermon on the future of Israel at this link:

And if I seemed slippery in the above paragraphs I will state clearly. I do believe there will be a physical Reign of Jesus Christ on earth for 1000 years before the Great White Throne Judgment. And this is why:

19 After these things I heard[a] a loud voice of a great multitude in heaven, saying, “Alleluia! Salvation and glory and honor and power belong to the Lord [b] our God! 2 For true and righteous are His judgments, because He has judged the great harlot who corrupted the earth with her fornication; and He has avenged on her the blood of His servants shed by her.” 3 Again they said, “Alleluia! Her smoke rises up forever and ever!” 4 And the twenty-four elders and the four living creatures fell down and worshiped God who sat on the throne, saying, “Amen! Alleluia!” 5 Then a voice came from the throne, saying, “Praise our God, all you His servants and those who fear Him, both[c] small and great!”

6 And I heard, as it were, the voice of a great multitude, as the sound of many waters and as the sound of mighty thunderings, saying, “Alleluia! For the[d] Lord God Omnipotent reigns! 7 Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready.” 8 And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.

9 Then he said to me, “Write: ‘Blessed are those who are called to the marriage supper of the Lamb!’” And he said to me, “These are the true sayings of God.” 10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, “See that you do not do that! I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren who have the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.”

11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had[e] a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean,[f] followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp[g] sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written:

17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in the midst of heaven, “Come and gather together for the supper of the great God,[h] 18 that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all people, free[i] and slave, both small and great.”

19 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. 20 Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21 And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.

Revelation Chapter 20 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3 and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a[a] thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. 10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where[b] the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God,[c] and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.[d] 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.(NKJV)

As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV)

Could not get the vid to work but will try again. I guess my point is, it is nice to view a video hit piece without actually reading the works of dispensationalists. I have read the works of Scofield, Ironside and Ryrie. If someone would like to point out just what portions of Scriptures they got wrong, I can comment. I see too often hit pieces try to tell the story with innuendo from one side. I also challenge anyone to produce something that shows a traditional dispensationalist has departed from Biblical christology and soteriology.

As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV)

It is my understanding that you do not believe women are to be telling (teaching or preaching) men anything.

Given this, I find your comment as referred above to SJN's posting that I've bolded in the quoted material.

Am I incorrect in my understanding? If you desire, I will tell you where I received my 'undertanding' from.

Given I won't repost in the quote box your profanity, please note the post I respond to.

Mr. Jim you have to make up your mind. Are you serious about blaming God when in another breath you tell us He does not exist and that gaia is your god? Then is gaia to blame and what kind of gaia is it if it let things get out of control? Your entire persona is a huge contradiction. What is evident is anger at the sad state of worldly affairs. For that you get no argument. Where we part company is with the Solution. You have anger towards the awful things going on in the world and project that anger towards those who offer the Gospel, which IS THE ANSWER. But you reject that Message because you choose to live by the same standards of life of which is the world you hate.

As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV)

This is a Bible study thread. I showed agreement with her quote about presenting the Gospel. SJN is not preaching or telling to me what we both already know. It was brotherly encouragement for posting a piece on the Great Commission.

And yes, rowdee we receive our understanding from God through His Holy Word and His Holy Spirit.

As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV)

What I was attempting to point out was that SJN's article pointed to the Gospel being spread worldwide....and you specifically noted to her what she had posted 'says it all'.

It couldn't say it all if there are only certain classes of people who could do such spreading of God's Word. Hence, the bringing of women into the issue of spreading the Word.

While you apparently know one another, there are many who will just read and be silent as they attempt to learn more. SJN is evangelizing, spreading the word, even if they are commentaries written by others--she surely believes in the doctrines, etc.

Rowdee, you are not subverting the thread, and I do know clearly your intent on bringing up the issue.

You are correct in a sense that over the past year or so SJN, me and others (here and at LP) have asked for prayers for various illnesses, and family members and have, as much as you can in "posting land", formed a fellowship of prayer and sharing Scriptures. I do not "pretend" to be a pastor and don't think SJN is seeing herself as at the pulpit preaching to men in the congregation.

I wish you could have been here a few months ago when there was a person who tried doing this.

As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV)

How exactly do you know what are the lies of Satan? He doesn't exactly go around and give press conferences to publicize his activities.

As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV)

Absolutely! You nailed the problem that I was kind of trying to point out as well as trying to explain that Israel is not the nation that the Gospel speaks of as more often it means all Christian believers through out time and the whole world. That is the the "nation of believers" that is referred often to in the Gospel as Israel.

Yes, I'm aware that you do believe that for the scripture that you posted, however;

Revelation is a good example of a genre of writing known as "apocalyptic literature." Remember that God has employed different kinds of writings to convey his message to us: historical narrative, poetry, and predictive prophecy in addition to apocalytic (revelatory) prophecy. Each genre has its own characteristics and often takes some getting used to. Apocalyptic literature employs graphic dreams or visions along with vivid descriptions of unusual scenes or events that are often rather surreal and fantastic, giving the reader a sense of wonder in addition to pertinent information about coming events. The symbolic use of numbers and cyclical patterns of repeated information conveyed in changing images is also common. But, again, it takes some getting used to.

Revelation draws on information previously given in earlier books of the Bible and kind of assumes that the reader is familiar with that earlier information. To read this 66th book of the Bible without a firm grasp on the content of the first 65 can prove problematic. Earlier apocalyptic books in the Old Testament like Daniel and Zechariah especially should be studied in this connection.

I think you would find these reading materials very interesting on this subject: The commentary on Revelation by Professor Siegbert Becker (its title is A Distant Triumph Song) and another by Pastor Wayne Mueller (Part of the People's Bible series) are especially helpful. Don't forget to read the introductory material of those books. They will help you as you then proceed to work through the chapters of the book of Revelation itself. These volumes are available through Northwestern Publishing House. online.nph.net/

THIS may be THE most important 47 minutes of your mortal life.....It's NOT the same ol'. Give this testimony and vivid descriptive "preview" of Hell a chance. Be patience and hear this man out. NO profit. NO motive. NO pontification.

Post all the youtubes you want. People look at what you're like and decide if they want to belong.

Plan 'C': "If God is so great, why does he allow you to suffer and die"? Why can't he just turn this wretched earth in 'Club Paradise'? And make everyone nice?"

Plan 'D': "Do What Thou Wilt" - Entertainment icons' newest self-commandment. Look for it out there. It means, "What *I* say is "right" IS "right" (actually this is a corollary to Plan 'B', and contrived personal divinity, isn't it?

If anyone rejects viewing this video because *I* condone it only spites themselves. Take me out of the equation.

When we leave this mortal world and face Judgment, I doubt even you will be saying, "Lord...if Liberator is in your House, I don't want any part of it."

I've met Satan and his demons. He's real. They're real. I know God. He's real. And just as the man whose testimony is heard, the reality of a spiritual realm exists and transcends this waking-state mortal dimension. ONE of them is a nightmare. FOREVER.

ITMT, we are all responsible for the destination of our soul in the Hereafter. Tonight MAY BE the last day some can actually make a decision. Death sometimes comes like a thief in the night.

When all is said and done and the Book of Life is opened, will your name appear in it?

As in the article link I posted to you, I agree with MacArthur that God's promise to the nation of Israel is still valid. Where I say "however" is important. However, the remnant we will see in end times will be a remnant that recognizes and accepts Jesus Christ as Messiah and King---by Grace through Faith. No separate "deal" as some may claim.

As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV)

All you've got is spouting boilerplate you heard somewhere else. That ain't going to cut it.

Hopefully someone else may penetrate your wall. All differences aside - we admittedly despise each other - believe it or not I'm pulling for you to see the light.

CHRISTIANS, and any other person who doesn't go along with the NWO is REALLY IN TROUBLE!!

INTERNATIONAL LAW

The Congress of the United States of America has declared that the seven universal laws commanded to Noah (the Noahide laws) are "the bedrock of society from the dawn of civilization". U.S. Congress, H.J. Resolution 104, Public Law 102-14, 1991.

This sets the Noahide Laws as the primary basis for International Law, (read “New World Order”) to which all American law MUST conform.

This unique public law remarkably singles out one particular Jewish group for special honour, saying that they embody the principles of these Noahide Laws.

This group is the ultra-orthodox Lubavitch Movement, of the loony Habad Hasids Jews. Al Gore Letter 10 01-Nov-2000 Education Day USA: “Upon seizing the reins of government, the new Noachide leaders will move quickly to implement a full agenda of reform... Full support will be given to Israeli forces to reinvade PLO-controlled areas, with military assistance offered where necessary. Jewish courts will be granted full legal sovereignty over Jewish citizens within each country, who will no longer be subject to the authority of gentile courts. The pre-existing Noachide judges and courts will replace the existing court system of each country, and the legal code will be drastically rewritten to conform to halacha...And law and order will be fully restored through the establishment of internal security measures, again in accordance with Torah law.”

A nation governed by wisdom and moral law sounds reasonable, but it is the identical goal as expressed by the Orders of Freemasonry.

In “The History of Freemasonry,” High Adept and Prince of Masonry - Albert Mackey, provides the sequel to the Egyptian/Cabbalist accounts of Noah. "After Noah’s emergence from the Ark, he is said to have promulgated seven precepts for the government of the new race of men of whom he was to be the progenitor... [1] To do justice [2] Worship God [3] Abstain from idolatry [4] Preserve chastity [5] Do not commit murder [6] Do not steal [7] Do not eat blood."

Mackey further identifies Noah as the originator of a “mystery religion’ known as the “Arkite Worship.”

"The influence of Noah on Masonic doctrine is to be traced to the almost universal belief of men in the events of the deluge, and a consequent establishment in many nations of a system of religion known to ethnologists as the ‘Arkite Worship’...

Hence arose that system known to modern scholars as the 'Arkite Worship' in whose rites and mysteries, which were eventually communicated to the other ancient religions. There were always some allusions to the events of the Noahic flood - to the Ark, as the WOMB OF NATURE, to the eight persons saved in it, as the Ogdoad or sacred number - and to the renovation of the world, as symbolizing the passage from death to immortal life."

These seven laws, to be implemented under the NWO, allows BEHEADING as THE form of capital punishment, principally for what the TALMUD regards as “Idolaters” and “Blasphemers,” or in reality - “Christ honouring” Christians.

“For theological reasons, mostly rooted in ignorance, Christianity as a religion is classed by rabbinical teaching as idolatry. This is based on a crude interpretation of the Christian doctrines on the Trinity and Incarnation. All the Christian emblems and pictorial representations are regarded as 'idols' - even by those Jews who literally worship scrolls, stones or personal belongings of 'Holy Men'."

-- 'Jewish History, Jewish Religion' by Professor Israel Shahak

“All this, and much more like it, proves beyond a doubt that when the Rabbis speak of the idols of the Gentiles among whom they lived at that time, when no idols were worshipped, they clearly meant the Christian "idol," namely, the image of Christ on the crucifix and the Holy Communion.”

-- “The Talmud Judaism's holiest book Unmasked” The Secret Jewish Rabbinical Teachings Concerning Christians By Rev. I. B. Pranaitis

WHAT ARE THESE LAWS?

The “Encyclopedia Americana” gives its explanation of the Noahide Laws, "Throughout the ages, scholars have viewed the Noahide Laws as a link between Judaism and Christianity, as universal norms of ethical conduct, as a basic concept of international law, or as a guarantee of fundamental human rights for all."

This explanation leads one to believe that everyone on earth will be bound by these seven laws.

However, reliable reports from Jewish sources are that the Jew who lives according to the “Torah,” (certainly not the written Torah given to Moses, but rather the occult/Pharisaic traditions adopted from the mystery religions of ancient Babylon) is exempt.

In other words, these seven Laws were only meant for non-Jews and are to be a direct substitute for the Biblical Ten Commandments.

"It is the law to kill anyone who denies the Torah. The Christians belong to the denying ones of the Torah." Talmud: Coschen hamischpat 425 Hagah 425. 5

Now does that sound like their “Torah” is the same as our Biblical Old Testament – I think not!

So let’s briefly list these seven NOAHIDE LAWS :

1. Thou shalt not engage in idol worship.

2. Thou shalt not blaspheme God.

3. Thou shalt not shed innocent blood of a human nor foetus nor
ailing person who has a limited time to live.

4. Thou shalt not engage in bestial, incestuous, adulterous, or
homosexual relations nor commit...rape.

5. Thou shalt not steal.

6. Thou shalt establish laws and courts of law to administer these laws

7. Thou shalt not be cruel to animals.

The Jews wish to commence with the U.S. to be ruled by the Noahide Laws, (which at first glance seem to be something harmless and even moral) together with whatever is intrinsically implied in them.

Seeing that “the devil is always in the details,” looking a little closer we can see that the real goal is to have the non-Jewish population of the United States totally subjected and ruled by judicial enactments that are exclusively managed, interpreted and manipulated by orthodox rabbis.

The penalty for violation is clearly spelled out on page 1192 of the “Encyclopedia Judaica,”: " violation of any one of the seven laws subjects the Noahide to capital punishment by DECAPITATION." Rather severe wouldn’t you think?

So, if only one person steps forward to merely accuse any non-Jew of violating any one of these seven laws, that testimony alone – irrespective of the proven truth of the allegation, this would be enough for the sentence of death.

Notice how Deuteronomy 17:6, clearly requires the testimony of 2 or 3 witnesses before one who deserves death can be executed. In fact, the last sentence of verse 6 specifically states: “At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death; but at the mouth of one witness he shall NOT be put to death.”

WHO JUDGES THE JUDGES?

These evil, satanic ghouls masquerading as the “chosen people,” will be represented by pompous, pious looking, bearded Rebbe - “sages,” and will possibly be the judges who cast the ultimate caesarean thumbs down vote for the sacrificial deaths of all tried and true believers that will have been Sealed as righteous by the Most High.

"Every Jew, who spills the blood of the godless, (non-Jews) is doing the same as making a sacrifice to God." (Talmud: Bammidber raba c 21 & Jalkut 772)

It will be simply ancient ritualistic murder that has existed down though the centuries that may culminate in our day, in rivers of blood.

The Sacrament of Christian Communion will be transformed from wine, the symbolic blood of Jesus, to the real blood Of true believers, that will be freely shed under this new, Luciferic Theocracy!

The Jews have always been idolaters whose principal god, Moloch, constantly demanded blood sacrifices, a FACT of which has been proven time and time again throughout history.

Always remember as Biblical fact, that the Jewish establishment succeeded in the illegal trial and subsequent killing and blood-letting of Jesus Christ on the primary basis that He blasphemed God, which is Noahide Law number 2 - “Thou shalt not blaspheme God.” “Extermination of a Christian is a necessary sacrifice to God.” Zohar (II, 43a)

Make no mistake, these remarkable and sickening quotes from the Talmud (Soncino Edition) here and elsewhere, are quite genuine and gleaned from a large variety of reliable sources, (mostly Jewish) at the time of compilation.

These are but a few of the hundreds of Talmudic passages that deal with the recommended treatment of Christians.

The non-Jewish world has suffered unbelievably and endured Zionist world terror for nearly a century, beginning with Jewish Bolshevism and Stalinism. Zionism and the World Jewish Congress have initiated two devastating World Wars, leaving 54 million people killed, with countless millions wounded in spirit soul and body.

THIS is the reality of the Jewish Talmudic “legacy,” and there is much more to come.

THE REAL GOALS

Here, hidden behind a facade of phony, moral statutes and deliberately sympathetic phrases, are the real goals of the Noahide Laws:

1. The replacement of the entire Old Testament and the total rejection of the NT
2. The rejection of the atonement of Christ upon the Cross
3. The rejection of the plan of salvation according to Acts 2:38
4. The spying on one another to supply the one eyewitness needed to execute the death penalty
5. The necessity of keeping the other 66 “lesser known laws”
6. Circumcision of all males
7. Eating only kosher foods
8. Forbidding holding religious services of any type in a place that is not an approved assembly place for Noahides
9. The death penalty for anyone, (Christians being the main target) that claims that God has spoken through them by way of teaching, preaching or writing, that is in any way contradictory to the establishment “worship system.”

"The Christians are always singing about the blood. Let us give them enough of it! Let us cut their throats and drag them over the altar! And let them drown in their own blood! I dream of the day when the last priest is strangled on the guts of the last preacher." (Chairman of the American Communist Party, Gus Hall).

It will be a serious crime to claim to be a Prophet, Preacher, or Pastor, to whom the Antichrist authorities have not issued a certificate of approval, and it will be a death penalty offence to oppose in any way this new “religion.”

By opposition - means to speak against any Jewish Priest, any Jewish Rabbi, any Noahide Minister, any Noahide or Jewish Temple or place of worship, or oppose any doctrine that only the “Rebbe Adepts” teach or advocate.

So under the guise of Pharisaic Jewry, the modern Cabbalists are cunningly taking us all back to Egypt, and to the ancient house of bondage from whence we came.

How then, could any Christian ever support the diabolical plotting behind the precepts of the Noahide laws, to aid in the destruction of the New Testament - the Church, and be complicit in the killing of the precious and faithful Saints of God?

Antichrists are even now arising from all denominations denying that salvation is through Jesus Christ alone. This is that spirit of Antichrist that will join forces with Jewish rabbis together with other “Jewish-Gentile” groups to complete their total destruction of Christianity.

First they will accuse those of being anti-Semites for rejecting Pharisee-Talmudic Judaism, then anti-Semitic for rejecting that the Laws of Moses are still in effect for Jews and Gentiles alike for salvation, and then anti-Semitic yet again because we dare write anything that opposes/exposes their covert agenda.

"All Jews are good by nature, all non-Jews are evil by nature. The Jews are creation's crowning glory, the non-Jews are the scum of the earth."

This quote is typical of the Talmudic-Jewish philosophy that saturates the thinking of Jews such as Rabbi Shneur Zalman, one of the leading “Halacha” scholars in Jewish history according to the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung, March 11, 1994, page 14.

What will we see in the End Times?

We will see a revival of Judaised law-keeping and a rejection of the New Covenant by the blinded Judeo-Christian sheeple.

If you observe any person saying that the New Testament is not the New Covenant of Jeremiah 31:31-34, you have just met an antichrist - a Concision, a person who has fallen from grace and thus severed themselves from Christ. These cannot be saved, or remain so once they deny the fulfilment by the Messiah of the New Covenant. These will deny the Lord's Passover Memorial Cup, with all that it symbolises and thereby crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and thereby count his blood as an unholy thing. The true blasphemy against the Holy Spirit!

WHAT WILL IT BE LIKE?

My research suggests that this One-World Government, (together with a single monetary system – possibly the Euro) will consist of permanent non-elected oligarchist-elites who are self-chosen from among their numbers in the form of a feudal system similar to that of the Middle Ages.

In this One-World entity, there will be no middle class - only rulers and servants.

All laws will be uniform under a legal system of world courts practicing the same unified code of Noahide laws. These laws will be enforced by a One-World Government police force and a global, multicultural military.

The system will be on the basis of a welfare state, where only those who are obedient and subservient to the One World Government will be rewarded with the means to live, via the mark of the beast.

Those who are rebellious and refuse the mark, will simply be declared outlaws, starved to death and/or killed. Privately owned firearms or weapons of any kind will be prohibited. National pride and racial identity shall be gradually stamped out and in the transition phase, any mention of one's racial origin shall be subject to severe penalties.

Only one religion will be allowed in the form of Talmudic Judaism, structured and administered by Lubavitcher rebbes and others that have bought the lie.

All tried and true Christ honouring believers will be regarded as (Noahide) lawbreakers and will risk decapitation under this vehemently anti-Christ, beast system.

As an interesting aside, State of Georgia lawmaker Doug Teper (Democrat) has proposed a bill to replace the state's electric chair with the guillotine.

Teper's reasoning? It would allow for death-row inmates as potential organ donors. He says, the "Blade makes a clean cut and leaves vital organs intact." Yeah, right!

"For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of THE JEWS: WHO BOTH KILLED THE LORD JESUS, AND THEIR OWN PROPHETS, AND HAVE PERSECUTED US; AND THEY PLEASE NOT GOD, AND ARE CONTRARY TO ALL MEN." (I Thessalonians 2:14-15)

SOURCE http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message547192/pg1

It's no secret that many Israelis and even a disturbingly sizable number of American Jews dislike and resent Christians...The opposite can also be claimed in their (American Jews') defense.

I do know of Christian groups who while visiting Israel were told *specifically* to low-key their faith and "behave". Speaking to Jews about Jesus is blasphemous IN ISRAEL.

Over at LP, there are a few American Jews (including its owner) who readily admitted that non-Jew/infidels (aka Christians) are regarded as untermenchen and looked down upon. Of course the irony was missed on these bigots. That said, I don't mean to besmirch most American Jews as the case in this regard.

But had these elitist Israelis and Jews their way, would treat us much like the Nazis treated Jews during WWII. But don't expect this revelation to get much publicity.

I take Revelation the same as all Scriptures. Where it is plain, you take it plainly. There are, IMHO, three approaches to Revelation and the yet unfulfulled prophecies of the OT. First approach is to take the stand that all of Revelation has been fulfilled, second is that some or most has been fulfilled, and third Revelation is yet to come. Again, IMHO, we are not forbidden to study prophecy in the Bible (those who read will be blessed), but are to be VERY cautious as to being dogmatic (saying we are certain) about the things that are not certain or clear. It is certain Christ will Come Again and to me the events of Revelation 19-22 are yet future and not fulfilled. "The How" it all happens we mortals will never figure out and I think Jesus Christ made that clear to us in Matthew 24-25. He said to look for the signs of His Coming, to be ready/prepared and don't be caught off guard. Paul as well in his Epistles gives us supporting words.

I think whether one adheres to replacement theology or dispensationalism, we must be careful in promoting that 'we know' how it will unfold, other than what we know to be certain, plainly revealed in the Bible. During the time of Irenaeus, there was some speculation with regards to the identity of the anti- christ. Irenaeus quickly but lovingly told those who were trying to equate numbers with a person to focus on the Great Commission and in the rightful words of the Apostles to watch and be ready. I got the impression he meant we were to live our lives as citizens of the Kingdom and follow the commands of Jesus Christ and do so with vigor and love until we "absent from the body but present with the Lord."

With all that, I also have come to another conclusion as a student of God's Word over the years. All is for the Glory of God and we only understand what He has revealed to us. What is clear to me is with God a Promise is a Promise and He is not finished with Israel. And when I mention God is not finished with Israel I will clearly state that I am not promoting the current government structure of secular Israel as the fulfillment of the Promise. Perhaps Israel being a nation now is a forerunner as an identity for things future, but the current Israel still rejects Christ the King and Messiah.

As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV)

Not so fast. You did not respond to the remainder of my post. Here it is again for you to see and comment on:

As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV)

That even if God came down from Heaven and handed a personal invitation to an atheist, he/she would still reject Him. But then again, that happened about 2000 years ago.

As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV)

Whew! And folks got a bit wound up because I posted a few Jack Chick cartoon tracts:) I ask again, what does any of this have to do with dispensationalism and believing Revelation is yet future?

I am getting the picture a bit I think from your posts. This is all about Jews and not liking them.

As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV)