[Home]  [Headlines]  [Latest Articles]  [Latest Comments]  [Post]  [Mail]  [Sign-in]  [Setup]  [Help]  [Register] 

Utopian Visionaries Who Won’t Leave People Alone

No - no - no Ain'T going To get away with iT

Pete Buttplug's Butt Plugger Trying to Turn Kids into Faggots

Mark Levin: I'm sick and tired of these attacks

Questioning the Big Bang

James Webb Data Contradicts the Big Bang

Pssst! Don't tell the creationists, but scientists don't have a clue how life began

A fine romance: how humans and chimps just couldn't let go

Early humans had sex with chimps

O’Keefe dons bulletproof vest to extract undercover journalist from NGO camp.

Biblical Contradictions (Alleged)

Catholic Church Praising Lucifer

Raising the Knife

One Of The HARDEST Videos I Had To Make..

Houthi rebels' attack severely damages a Belize-flagged ship in key strait leading to the Red Sea (British Ship)

Chinese Illegal Alien. I'm here for the moneuy

Red Tides Plague Gulf Beaches

Tucker Carlson calls out Nikki Haley, Ben Shapiro, and every other person calling for war:

{Are there 7 Deadly Sins?} I’ve heard people refer to the “7 Deadly Sins,” but I haven’t been able to find that sort of list in Scripture.

Abomination of Desolation | THEORY, BIBLE STUDY

Bible Help

Libertysflame Database Updated

Crush EVERYONE with the Alien Gambit!

Vladimir Putin tells Tucker Carlson US should stop arming Ukraine to end war

Putin hints Moscow and Washington in back-channel talks in revealing Tucker Carlson interview

Trump accuses Fulton County DA Fani Willis of lying in court response to Roman's motion

Mandatory anti-white racism at Disney.

Iceland Volcano Erupts For Third Time In 2 Months, State Of Emergency Declared

Tucker Carlson Interview with Vladamir Putin

How will Ar Mageddon / WW III End?

What on EARTH is going on in Acts 16:11? New Discovery!

2023 Hottest in over 120 Million Years

2024 and beyond in prophecy

Questions

This Speech Just Broke the Internet

This AMAZING Math Formula Will Teach You About God!

The GOSPEL of the ALIENS | Fallen Angels | Giants | Anunnaki

The IMAGE of the BEAST Revealed (REV 13) - WARNING: Not for Everyone

WEF Calls for AI to Replace Voters: ‘Why Do We Need Elections?’

The OCCULT Burger king EXPOSED

PANERA BREAD Antichrist message EXPOSED

The OCCULT Cheesecake Factory EXPOSED

Satanist And Witches Encounter The Cross

History and Beliefs of the Waldensians

Rome’s Persecution of the Bible

Evolutionists, You’ve Been Caught Lying About Fossils

Raw Streets of NYC Migrant Crisis that they don't show on Tv

Meet DarkBERT - AI Model Trained On DARK WEB

[NEW!] Jaw-dropping 666 Discovery Utterly Proves the King James Bible is God's Preserved Word

ALERT!!! THE MOST IMPORTANT INFORMATION WILL SOON BE POSTED HERE


Status: Not Logged In; Sign In

Bible Study
See other Bible Study Articles

Title: Why Every Calvinist Should be a Premillennialist
Source: Grace to you
URL Source: http://www.gty.org/Downloads/PDF/macarthur_on_future_israel.pdf
Published: Jun 9, 2007
Author: John MacArthur with intro by Barry Horne
Post Date: 2012-06-09 12:19:51 by redleghunter
Keywords: None
Views: 2407
Comments: 5

RLH intro: This is a very long sermon, so will share below the intro to the sermon by Barry Horner and the full text link option for the full sermon by John MacArthur. For those who do not know John MacArthur I will preface he is not a Tim Lahaye or Hal Lindsey type of premillennialist. In fact, JM gets a lot of flak from that angle. What prompted me to post this sermon is, I think JM is his "own man" when it comes to plainly, literally reading and interpreting Scriptures. Calvinists claim him, and Evangelicals claim him. That tells me something, perhaps this guy is truly honest and calls them as he sees them plainly and literally. I will note the subject at hand on prophecy and Israel is something that divides the Body of Christ. I ask you give JM a fair hearing and read the entire sermon (yes it is long, for heavens sake it IS a sermon):)

Intro by Barry Horner:

Introduction The circumstances which led Dr. John MacArthur to mention the Future Israel manuscript in this sermon are important since they indicate how, in the providence of God, our paths crossed with regard to our individual convictions concerning the eschatological destiny of the Jewish people. In March 2007 at the Shepherds’ Conference, Pastor MacArthur gave the opening message on the topic, Why Every Self‐Respecting Calvinist Is A Premillennialist. While personally unaware at the time of this vigorous challenge to amillennialism, apparently the response was animated, to put it mildly, so that a friend who was present on that occasion, subsequently sent me a CD of this message. He was aware of the fact that the Future Israel manuscript was being edited by Broadman & Holman and so felt that I would very much appreciate the whole thrust of Pastor MacArthur’s stimulating challenge.

Upon listening to Why Every Self‐Respecting Calvinist Is A Premillennialist, I can only confirm what Pastor MacArthur here recounts concerning our communication, namely that “I heard your message that you gave at the [recent] Shepherds Conference, on this subject and I found myself tripping over my ‘amens.’” However, the point is that there was no collusion between us concerning the message given at that conference. Certainly we were on agreeable parallel tracks. Immediately following the Conference, in a Sunday evening series of messages at Grace Community Church, also on the same basic topic, it was then, in the third of that series, that Pastor MacArthur made reference to Future Israel, for which I am most grateful. The title of that message was Why Every Calvinist Should Be A Premillennialist However, concerning that initial message at the Shepherds’ Conference, and particularly this message which closely followed, I can only add yet further “amens.” The point stressed here concerning the sovereignty of grace that amillennialists selectively adhere to, with regard to Israel and the church, is a truth at the very heart of the title that is here employed. For many of Reformed convictions, Israel is made to be subject to Arminianism while the church is subject to Calvinism. Whereas the sovereignty of grace reigns equally over Israel and the church. I know of no subsequent responses that have remotely addressed this, the kernel issue that is at stake here.

Barry Horner

Click for Full Text!

Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread  


TopPage UpFull ThreadPage DownBottom/Latest

#1. To: redleghunter (#0)

I like MacArthur and he makes a good enough argument but I never found it compelling.

Generally, I think that MacArthur is being a little political in his theology here: Calvinism is much much easier to sell to American evangelicals if you put a Left Behinder spin on it.

Which means they are far more attached to their Left Behinderism than to either their Arminian or Calvinist leanings.

Tooconservative  posted on  2012-06-09   15:13:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: TooConservative (#1)

Which means they are far more attached to their Left Behinderism than to either their Arminian or Calvinist leanings.

A very interesting observation.

As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV)

redleghunter  posted on  2012-06-09   15:31:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: TooConservative (#1)

I like MacArthur and he makes a good enough argument but I never found it compelling.

I don't think MacArthur is putting a "left behind" spin on this issue at all. I think he offers that when God makes a promise He keeps it. He also makes it clear that our minds are not God's mind. All is for God's Glory. Some of it makes sense to we the created, some does not make sense, but it does to the Creator.

I think JM has been a faithful soldier over the years keeping fellowship on both the Calvinist side and Arminian side of the Body of Christ. After reading and hearing other evangelists, MacArthur over the years comes across as his "own man." If you check out what others say about him, the Arminians say he is a 5 point ultra-Calvinist and the Calvinists say the opposite.

As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV)

redleghunter  posted on  2012-06-09   15:59:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: redleghunter (#3)

If you check out what others say about him, the Arminians say he is a 5 point ultra-Calvinist and the Calvinists say the opposite.

You must know by now that any actual Calvinist gets labeled a hyper-Calvinist by the other side. The Arminians readily adopt the dishonest rhetorical strategies of liberal pols with which we are familiar.

And I think he realizes that evangelicals may be at least willing to consider Calvinist doctrine but the evangelicals readily discover that Calvinists tend toward amillennialism and they quickly lose all interest in the topic even though they are largely unrelated.

Tooconservative  posted on  2012-06-09   18:05:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: TooConservative (#4)

You must know by now that any actual Calvinist gets labeled a hyper-Calvinist by the other side. The Arminians readily adopt the dishonest rhetorical strategies of liberal pols with which we are familiar.

And I think he realizes that evangelicals may be at least willing to consider Calvinist doctrine but the evangelicals readily discover that Calvinists tend toward amillennialism and they quickly lose all interest in the topic even though they are largely unrelated.

On the first comment I have to agree to a degree. Most Calvinists will call Arminians brothers in Christ from my experience. There is an element out there on both sides that tend to come close to using the "h" word on each other, but they are few and of the few, most have other "issues."

On the amillennial vs. pre-millennial IMHO it should not divide the Body of Christ. Coming from a pre-millennial backgroud and study I think it stems from the plain, literal translation of ALL Scriptures. If we all agree on plainly, literally interpreting the doctrine of Salvation and the doctrine of Christ (which both are in violent agreement) then why not take prophecy at face value? I think that is a big part. Don't jump, I know there are some powerful symbols in prophecy, but most pre-millennials will say where it is plain, take it plain. Same approach as in the parables. I think that is what JM is getting at in the sermon. At least that is what came across to me.

As you know it is not just the prophecy that puts the Body of Christ at odds. We also have the free will (Arminian) vs Divine Election (Calvanist) butting heads. I think the approach my home church which is Plymouth Brethren, is correct. When asked if God elects us, the answer is yes. When asked does man need to seek and call and confess, the answer is yes. May sound like fence sitting but it is not. The Bible is clear that God chooses us. Those are the red letter Words of Christ. The Bible is also clear "seek ye the Lord while He may be found, call ye upon Him while He is near." About 5-10 years ago, there was an ongoing book debate (one guy wrote a book, another a book in rebuttal) between John MacArthur and Charles Ryrie. JM took the position of Jesus Christ is Savior AND Lord and Ryrie claimed JM took a position that in addition to Grace JM was advocating "works." JM counter punched by claiming the Ryrie rebuttal was a classic "easy believeism" theology. When you read both arguments the two brothers were talking past each other. JM never advocated "works" in addition to the finished Work of Christ. Nor did Ryrie say "all you have to do is believe and not live Christ like." I respect both gentlemen and it was unfortunate to see them at odds. JM's argument was if you are in Christ you will obey Him and He will be your Savior and Lord---Trust and Obey. Ryrie's point was if you are in Christ the Christian is transformed by God's Holy Spirit and will do His Will. IMHO, they were both in violent agreement.

Each believer has the commission to be an evangelist for the Gospel. We should be proclaiming the Gospel to all. We do not know which people God has His Divine hand on...we as the created just need to know that we "execute" the mission given to us...preach the Gospel.

As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV)

redleghunter  posted on  2012-06-09   18:45:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


TopPage UpFull ThreadPage DownBottom/Latest

[Home]  [Headlines]  [Latest Articles]  [Latest Comments]  [Post]  [Mail]  [Sign-in]  [Setup]  [Help]  [Register] 

Please report web page problems, questions and comments to webmaster@libertysflame.com