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Religion
See other Religion Articles

Title: Dawkins Admits He Cannot Prove God Does Not Exist
Source: GFP.com
URL Source: http://godfatherpolitics.com/4011/d ... nnot-prove-god-does-not-exist/
Published: Mar 5, 2012
Author: Giacomo
Post Date: 2012-03-05 13:55:53 by CZ82
Keywords: None
Views: 38002
Comments: 108

Dawkins Admits He Cannot Prove God Does Not Exist

March 5, 2012 by Giacomo

For centuries, people have claimed to be atheists because no one could prove to them that God exists. One of the most ardent members of that group has been British author Richard Dawkins. I’ve read and listened to Dawkins challenge believers to prove to him that God exists and that if they could he might believe in God.

But in reality, the opposite is true. The onus is on people like Dawkins to prove there is no God and this is something he has finally realized he cannot do. With the realization that he cannot prove God does not exist, Dawkins shocked many throughout the world with his announcement that he is not an atheist after all, but rather he would classify himself as an agnostic.

The definition of an agnostic is someone who believes that the existence of God is unknown and that human knowledge is limited to physical evidence plus things that can be experienced and this is where Dawkins find himself.

However, many Christians, like evangelist and author Ray Comfort, challenge Dawkins statement about being an agnostic and that it has everything to do with evidence and proving that God does not exist. Rather, Comfort says that people like Dawkins are making a decision on the moral choice to deny the existence of God. If they acknowledged God in any form, they would have to realize that they would have a moral obligation to be responsible to Him.

Comfort goes even further and describes Dawkins as not only being ignorant but of being an ignoramus. He explains,

“Richard Dawkins is ignorant when it comes to the existence of God. However, it’s a willful ignorance. He has in the past stated that he believes that nothing created everything, which is a scientific impossibility. It’s not only impossible, it’s crazy to believe that. That’s why the Bible uses the word ‘fool’ to describe someone who says that God doesn’t exist.

“Professing atheists will often slip into pleading ignorance, but that plea doesn’t solve their case, because they just move from being a ‘fool’ to being an ‘ignoramus.’

“The word ‘ignoramus’ is a legal term derived from a Latin word meaning ‘we do not know. An ignoramus is like a man who looks at a building and says that he ‘doesn’t know’ if a builder exists. Obviously, the building is proof that there was a builder, because buildings don’t build themselves.

“The reason why anyone would be that ignorant is clear. It’s not a case of a lack of evidence. The problem with Professor Dawkins isn’t intellectual, but moral. He doesn’t want to admit that God exists, because if he does, he’s admitting that he’s morally responsible to Him.”

I found the definition of agnostic interesting because it is not only based on physical evidence, but also relies on things that can be experienced. I don’t know about you, but I’ve experienced the presence of God numerous times in my life. I’ve witnessed things that defy all natural explanation and can only be explained by a God who watches over and gets involved in our lives. To be honest, I didn’t pick my wife some 42 years ago, but rather I can see where God caused a number of things to happen, that shouldn’t have happened, that led to us getting together. (Knowing that God picked her out for me also tells me that I have to do whatever it takes to make sure nothing happens to destroy our marriage.)

Deep inside all of us we experience the presence of God as we were made in His image with an ingrained knowledge of him from the very beginning. One of my favorite examples of this was Helen Keller, who at the young age of 19 months developed a fever that left her blind and deaf. She was so young at the time that she had little memory of vision or hearing. She grew up in a black and soundless world without any communication with others, other than touch until Ann Sullivan found a way to communicate to her.

In one of her letters, Helen told Bishop Brooks that she had always known about God, even before she had any words. Before she could call God anything, she knew God was there. She didn’t know what it was. God had no name for her — nothing had a name for her. She had no concept of a name. But in her darkness and isolation, she knew she was not alone. Someone was with her. She felt God’s love. And when she received the gift of language and heard about God, she said she already knew.

If Richard Dawkins is correct, Helen Keller should never have been able to experience the presence of God, but she did because the knowledge of God is part of who we all are. Therefore, Ray Comfort is absolutely correct when he says that Dawkins and others are making a moral decision to deny the existence of God since they know that God exists in them and cannot prove to others that He doesn’t

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#28. To: Mad Dog (#25)

Say a prayer to Allah for my heathen ass then and save me.

calcon  posted on  2012-03-06   10:35:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: NewsJunky (#18)

Because "things" exist. What if they have always existed?

Do you have any evidence that they always existed?

redleghunter  posted on  2012-03-06   13:34:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: redleghunter (#29)

Do you have any evidence that they always existed?

Do you know it hasn't?

NewsJunky  posted on  2012-03-06   14:39:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: Mad Dog (#26)

MD- Jesus is alive. :)

diva betsy ross  posted on  2012-03-06   15:11:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: Wood_Chopper (#27)

md; Being a Christian is all about knowing that Jesus IS the son of GOD.

boy; And judging by you, swearing like a drunk sailor and being an absolute asshole (except on Sunday of course).

You really are stoooooopid as a fence post aren't you woody boy?

Lets recap woody boy, a mere man, a sinner, knows what Christianity IS and so a God hating fool such as you wants to judge my putative "level" of Christianity, AND then to judge Christianity on it's LEAST and most flawed member, (me)?

LOL! What a F' ing FOOL you are woody! Pretty typical thought process for a libTURD loser such as YOU little boy. A admitted BAD individual, (ME), claims to be a Christian; so then God hating FOOLS such as you TRY to make THAT CHRISTIANITY'S fault or problem?

LOL!

That's what you libTURD scum do isn't it woody boy? You TRY to kill the TRUTH by attacking those who present it, eh loser?

Too bad for FOOLS such as you woody boy that the TRUTH is the TRUTH no matter who states it. But if SATAN himself speaks the actual TRUTH it is still the TRUTH you gibbering FOOL.

Where did I ever claim to be a GOOD Christian you gibbering piece of sh!t?

I'm a SINNER, my sins are CRIMSON, I have broken EVERY COMMANDMENT, I have KILLED, I have MURDERED (in the name of my nation), and MORE.

Yep I'm a SINNER ASSHOLE, EVERY day, including Sundays woody boy.

By MY SINS I am DOOMED, save for the MERCY and sacrifice for ME of the one true GOD.

But even I can HOPE for salvation through OUR Lord's sacrifice for us ALL.

I represent only myself.

BUT that does not change the TRUTH fool,

Being a Christian is all about knowing that Jesus IS the son of GOD.

If I was YOU little boy I'd be way more worried about my own sins and destination.

But, thank the Lord I'm not anybody but myself.

Don't like that little boy?

Here's 50 cents little boy, call somebody that cares.

Spoiled, stupid and ignorant, brain dead phuckwads, libTURD fools, tools, and idiots, are the real sickness; the messiah "king" obammy and his regime are only the symptoms.

Mad Dog  posted on  2012-03-06   15:26:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: calcon (#28)

Say a prayer to Allah for my heathen ass then and save me.

Unlike little punk posers such as you calfag, I do what I say I believe.

I pray for you, and all like you, every day calfag.

But I sure can't make the Lord do anything, all I can do is ask.

It is important to remember that NO is an answer also.

Maybe the Lord will give you time, maybe not?

That's actually kind of YOUR problem FOOL.

Although I am hopeful for your development into a sane adult.

Of course I'm a Cubbies fan too.

Spoiled, stupid and ignorant, brain dead phuckwads, libTURD fools, tools, and idiots, are the real sickness; the messiah "king" obammy and his regime are only the symptoms.

Mad Dog  posted on  2012-03-06   15:36:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: diva betsy ross (#31)

Jesus is alive. :)

Saint Paul said that without the living GOD, Christians would ALL be FOOLS, or worse.

JESUS IS.

Otherwise there really is NO such thing as "Christianity".

JESUS IS.

Spoiled, stupid and ignorant, brain dead phuckwads, libTURD fools, tools, and idiots, are the real sickness; the messiah "king" obammy and his regime are only the symptoms.

Mad Dog  posted on  2012-03-06   15:44:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: NewsJunky (#30)

Do you have any evidence that they always existed? Do you know it hasn't?

Your questions prompt me to ask if you believe something came from nothing? Also, is the universe ordered or chaotic?

redleghunter  posted on  2012-03-06   15:50:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: Mad Dog (#33)

I'm really sorry to see that your syphilis is destroying the few brain cells you have left.

calcon  posted on  2012-03-06   16:33:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: redleghunter (#35)

believe something came from nothing

No that is why I posited that there was no beginning.

NewsJunky  posted on  2012-03-06   16:39:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: Mad Dog (#34)

I have seen Jesus, MD. You are right. He is alive. Take heart. He really is everything He said He was. All of the promises of the Bible are for the faithful. Be good and keep faith. peace.

diva betsy ross  posted on  2012-03-06   16:42:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: redleghunter (#35)

Also, is the universe ordered or chaotic?

It is governed by the laws of physics so in one sense it is ordered. That doesn't mean that there must be something to supernatural that makes it ordered.

NewsJunky  posted on  2012-03-06   16:43:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: NewsJunky (#39)

It is governed

Governed implies a Governor.

redleghunter  posted on  2012-03-06   16:56:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: calcon (#36) (Edited)

I'm really sorry to see that your syphilis is destroying the few brain cells you have left.

You know calFAG I'd really laugh at you for being such a stoooopid azzwipe, but even though I find you to be personally repellant, I would never wish anyone, (even you), to go where you are going unless you wise up.

Maybe you'll get the time in which to do that, and maybe you won't? Many do not get that extra time.

Look around at your DEAD friends fool.

"You're NEVER too old to rock n roll and you're NEVER too young to DIE."

Fool.

Spoiled, stupid and ignorant, brain dead phuckwads, libTURD fools, tools, and idiots, are the real sickness; the messiah "king" obammy and his regime are only the symptoms.

Mad Dog  posted on  2012-03-06   18:55:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: Mad Dog (#41)

I believe assclown, it's just that I believe in Thor, the God of Thunder. He is the son of Odin the ruler of Asgard(heaven).

I read my Marvel comics each night to worship him.

My god is so way cooler then yours.

calcon  posted on  2012-03-06   19:05:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: diva betsy ross (#38)

.

Through the grace and mercy of OUR Lord, I know that.

I was an absolute fool in my youth.

I certainly do not deserve any mercy, the responsibility and actions were entirely mine.

But HE gave me time, AND the "instruction", and MERCY.

By doing so HE proves how good HE is, not how "worthy" I am.

The god haters cannot, will not ever understand that.

But there it is.

Spoiled, stupid and ignorant, brain dead phuckwads, libTURD fools, tools, and idiots, are the real sickness; the messiah "king" obammy and his regime are only the symptoms.

Mad Dog  posted on  2012-03-06   19:07:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: calcon (#42)

I believe assclown, it's just that I believe in Thor, the God of Thunder. He is the son of Odin the ruler of Asgard(heaven).

I read my Marvel comics each night to worship him.

My god is so way cooler then yours.

What cracks me up calFAG is how you seem to think that I care what you believe?

The great commission only requires the availability of salvation be presented to the heathens and fools.

I KNOW what the darkness holds FOOL.

You will whine and cry in dripping fear, alone.

What makes you think that matters to me FOOL?

(btw FOOL what kind of "god" cannot even repair a bridge?)

Spoiled, stupid and ignorant, brain dead phuckwads, libTURD fools, tools, and idiots, are the real sickness; the messiah "king" obammy and his regime are only the symptoms.

Mad Dog  posted on  2012-03-06   19:13:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: redleghunter (#40)

Governed implies a Governor.

No not necessarily..

NewsJunky  posted on  2012-03-06   19:19:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: NewsJunky (#45)

Governed implies a Governor. No not necessarily..

Yes it does. You said we are governed by physical laws. If that is the case who is the lawgiver? To say we have no lawgiver to these laws of nature, that would be saying all has come about impersonally by chance. Even if you argue things have "always been there without beginning" it had to happen either by an unmoved mover or by chance.

redleghunter  posted on  2012-03-06   19:25:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#47. To: Mad Dog (#43) (Edited)

Psalm 66:10 >>

New International Version (©1984) For you, O God, tested us; you refined us like silver. New Living Translation (©2007) You have tested us, O God; you have purified us like silver

Praise God, Md. :) We are all works in progress. We have to each keep striving to be more like Christ- everyday . Don't stop. I won't either.

The word says we will all be tested by fire. I know that is true. I came through some stuff too, MD. I feel you.

That is the good news, for others to get their head around- God wants to save us so much that He sent his only son- to do what we could not do on our own- FIND HIM and be loved and purified according to His will. That's cool. My will isn't so smart. ;) Gets things messed up most times.

And anyone can be saved, because our Lord is so very merciful and so good. No matter what foolishness they have been involved with.

Those who have been forgiven much - love much. :)

diva betsy ross  posted on  2012-03-06   19:46:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: Mad Dog (#32)

I think you're being a little hard on yourself.

Tag line: I wuz HACKED, cuz I SAY so!

(Boris Y) "I'd vote for obama"

(Mad Dog, Paul voter) IF RonniePAULIE runs as a repukelican't, (OR even as a demonRAT), against the messiah "king" obammy; I'd vote FOR him.

Wood_Chopper  posted on  2012-03-06   20:00:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: Wood_Chopper (#48) (Edited)

LOL!

Well done woody boy!

(When thought to be a fool it is best to remain silent so as not to prove it!)

Fish in a BARREL woody!

But good point, and I'd be happy to discuss it with you. If I only thought that you were an intellectually honest person.

Which I do NOT.

I rode my wheeler a few miles out the unplowed subdivision roads to plow a friend who lives in the back out from about 2 feet of days old powder.

Even with my plow full up I was still busting powder. I was like a tin can jumping to station with a wake and tail!

I spooked two moose about half way out and I was worried that they'd turn on back on me since this year's snow has them exhausted and grumpy, but I lucked out and they went off down the only side road.

As I got to my brother's I saw two more moose bedded down right in the road right in the cul d sac where the road ended. Less than a half block from my bro's.

I turned off, and plowed out his driveway and most of his cul d sac.

Then I tossed powder all of the way back home. It was overcast but not snowing.

The puppies hadn't sh!t in their enclosure and the hot grips worked rad.

Now we're gonna get er back to the high cube for storage.

So I'm drying out and making some coffee.

Alaskan spuds boiling, radio on.

Puppies snoring.

Company inbound.

What's YOUR life like azzhole?

I hope it's GREAT!

No sh!t.

Spoiled, stupid and ignorant, brain dead phuckwads, libTURD fools, tools, and idiots, are the real sickness; the messiah "king" obammy and his regime are only the symptoms.

Mad Dog  posted on  2012-03-06   20:27:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: redleghunter (#46)

To say we have no lawgiver to these laws of nature, that would be saying all has come about impersonally by chance.

Exactly..

NewsJunky  posted on  2012-03-06   20:28:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#51. To: Mad Dog (#44)

As if the confused postings of a degenerate bible thumper are of interest to me.

calcon  posted on  2012-03-06   20:39:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#52. To: Mad Dog (#49)

What's YOUR life like azzhole?

I hope it's GREAT!

No sh!t.

If it was any better, it would probably be illegal.

Tag line: I wuz HACKED, cuz I SAY so!

(Boris Y) "I'd vote for obama"

(Mad Dog, Paul voter) IF RonniePAULIE runs as a repukelican't, (OR even as a demonRAT), against the messiah "king" obammy; I'd vote FOR him.

Wood_Chopper  posted on  2012-03-06   20:41:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#53. To: NewsJunky, redleghunter (#50)

To say we have no lawgiver to these laws of nature, that would be saying all has come about impersonally by chance.

Exactly..

You do realize that one of the overarching basic LAWS of Nature, the second LAW of thermodynamics, is ENTROPY right?

You do realize that all living being live in at least 4 dimensions do you not? Ergo TIME is a river in which we ALL swim.

You do understand the use of the basic rules of classical rigorous LOGIC don't you?

You do realize by the same LAWS that you CLAIM to believe in that what you CLAIM to believe in is absurd?

If I leave a pile of rust for an infinite time, at no time will that rust become a Chevy.

Explain exactly how an EYE is generated out of chaos by pure chance. Don't just try to say it's obvious upon inspection PROVE it. You cannot.

It comes down to this;

there is ORDER everywhere in the known perceived universe.

If you go infinitely small or infinitely large, there is order.

This order is scalable and consistent.

Thus, you CLAIM ORDER comes naturally, and spontaneously, from infinite CHAOS given infinite TIME.

This cannot be, from the rules/LAWS of nature that you CLAIM to believe in.

Given the LAWS of nature that you CLAIM to believe in, ORDER cannot just "fall out of" CHAOS.

How you handle THAT OBJECTIVE TRUTH is your problem.

So called LOGIC would suggest a potter where a pot is found, let alone in a kilned pottery.

But, "It just happened" won't EVEN wash.

Spoiled, stupid and ignorant, brain dead phuckwads, libTURD fools, tools, and idiots, are the real sickness; the messiah "king" obammy and his regime are only the symptoms.

Mad Dog  posted on  2012-03-06   20:54:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#54. To: Wood_Chopper (#52)

If it was any better, it would probably be illegal.

Ergo, it MUST be; eh woody?

LOL!

BZ!

Spoiled, stupid and ignorant, brain dead phuckwads, libTURD fools, tools, and idiots, are the real sickness; the messiah "king" obammy and his regime are only the symptoms.

Mad Dog  posted on  2012-03-06   20:57:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#55. To: calcon (#51)

.

Here calfag, let me talk at chu in Kalipornian, maybe dat'll werk?

"WhatEVER."

Fool.

Spoiled, stupid and ignorant, brain dead phuckwads, libTURD fools, tools, and idiots, are the real sickness; the messiah "king" obammy and his regime are only the symptoms.

Mad Dog  posted on  2012-03-06   21:00:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#56. To: Mad Dog (#55)

Here calfag, let me talk at chu in Kalipornian, maybe dat'll werk?

"WhatEVER."

Fool.

Man that syphilis is playing hell with your spelling, whiny pup.

calcon  posted on  2012-03-06   21:03:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#57. To: calcon (#56)

..

Here calfag, let me talk at chu in Kalipornian, maybe dat'll werk?

"WhatEVER."

Fool.

Spoiled, stupid and ignorant, brain dead phuckwads, libTURD fools, tools, and idiots, are the real sickness; the messiah "king" obammy and his regime are only the symptoms.

Mad Dog  posted on  2012-03-06   21:25:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#58. To: ALL (#57)

If there is no God, then all that exists is time and chance acting on matter. If this is true then the difference between your thoughts and mine correspond to the difference between shaking up a bottle of Mountain Dew and a bottle of Dr. Pepper. You simply fizz atheistically and I fizz theistically. This means that you do not hold to atheism because it is true , but rather because of a series of chemical reactions… … Morality, tragedy, and sorrow are equally evanescent. They are all empty sensations created by the chemical reactions of the brain, in turn created by too much pizza the night before. If there is no God, then all abstractions are chemical epiphenomena, like swamp gas over fetid water. This means that we have no reason for assigning truth and falsity to the chemical fizz we call reasoning or right and wrong to the irrational reaction we call morality. If no God, mankind is a set of bi-pedal carbon units of mostly water. And nothing else. 

GarySpFC  posted on  2012-03-07   8:11:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#59. To: Mad Dog (#57)

werk

As an alaskan welfare queen, i'm sure you're unfamiliar with the correct spelling but it's "WORK".

calcon  posted on  2012-03-07   14:26:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#60. To: calcon (#59) (Edited)

LOL!

Faggot pleeeeeeeeeease .... LMAO!, you don't even know what WORK is.

I bet that you haven't ever even had an actual WORKING job.

Although I'm sure you are conversant in the Kalipornian patois, as you just demonstrated, FOOL.

But what more could you really expect from a simpering snot nosed little calFAG punk fairy?

To paraphrase; "the punk that is a FOOL is a FOOL in ALL."

LOL!

Tu madre punta.

Spoiled, stupid and ignorant, brain dead phuckwads, libTURD fools, tools, and idiots, are the real sickness; the messiah "king" obammy and his regime are only the symptoms.

Mad Dog  posted on  2012-03-07   15:04:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#61. To: NewsJunky (#50)

impersonally by chance. Exactly..

Please explain how this is so?

redleghunter  posted on  2012-03-07   17:50:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#62. To: redleghunter (#61) (Edited)

Please explain how this is so?

I am not a physicist or cosmologist, so ask one.

But explain to me how if God is all knowing and can know the future, how can humans have free will if human actions can affect the future?

NewsJunky  posted on  2012-03-07   17:57:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#63. To: Mad Dog (#53)

Thus, you CLAIM ORDER comes naturally, and spontaneously, from infinite CHAOS given infinite TIME.

This cannot be, from the rules/LAWS of nature that you CLAIM to believe in.

Given the LAWS of nature that you CLAIM to believe in, ORDER cannot just "fall out of" CHAOS.

The postmodern worldviews can all be found in a "bong."

redleghunter  posted on  2012-03-07   17:58:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#64. To: redleghunter, Mad Dog (#63)

http://2ndlaw.oxy.edu/evolution.html

There are millions of compounds that have less energy in them than the elements of which they are composed. That sentence is a quiet bombshell. It means that the second law energetically FAVORS — yes, predicts firmly — the spontaneous formation of complex, geometrically ordered molecules from utterly simple atoms of elements. Popular statements such as "the second law says that all systems fundamentally tend toward disorder and randomness" are wrong when they refer to chemistry, and chemistry precisely deals with the structure and behavior of all types of matter.

To summarize this important conclusion that is known by very few who are not chemists: Energetically, the second law of thermodynamics favors the formation of the majority of all known complex and ordered chemical compounds directly from their simpler elements. Thus, contrary to popular opinion, the second law does not dictate the decrease of ordered structure by its predictions. It only demands a "spreading out" of energy when such ordered compounds are formed spontaneously.

Also, to repeat a caution: The foregoing only describes energetic relationships involving the second law. It does not mean that most complex substances can be readily synthesized just by mixing elements and treating them in some way. The second law has nothing to do with pathways or procedures of synthesis – only with energy and its tendency to spread out/disperse.

NewsJunky  posted on  2012-03-07   18:01:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#65. To: NewsJunky (#62)

I am not a physicist or cosmologist, so ask one.

But explain to me how if God is all knowing and can know the future, how can humans have free will if human actions can affect the future?

The answers you seek are in God's Holy Word the Bible. Here is a just a preview, as you go on line and buy a Bible:

From Job 38-40 (I presume you will actually read this, right?):NKJV

Job 38:

1 Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said: 2 "Who is this who darkens counsel By words without knowledge? 3 Now prepare yourself like a man; I will question you, and you shall answer Me. 4 "Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Tell Me, if you have understanding. 5 Who determined its measurements? Surely you know! Or who stretched the line upon it? 6 To what were its foundations fastened? Or who laid its cornerstone, 7 When the morning stars sang together, And all the sons of God shouted for joy? 8 "Or who shut in the sea with doors, When it burst forth and issued from the womb; 9 When I made the clouds its garment, And thick darkness its swaddling band; 10 When I fixed My limit for it, And set bars and doors; 11 When I said, 'This far you may come, but no farther, And here your proud waves must stop!' 12 "Have you commanded the morning since your days began, And caused the dawn to know its place, 13 That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, And the wicked be shaken out of it? 14 It takes on form like clay under a seal, And stands out like a garment. 15 From the wicked their light is withheld, And the upraised arm is broken. 16 "Have you entered the springs of the sea? Or have you walked in search of the depths? 17 Have the gates of death been revealed to you? Or have you seen the doors of the shadow of death? 18 Have you comprehended the breadth of the earth? Tell Me, if you know all this. 19 "Where is the way to the dwelling of light? And darkness, where is its place, 20 That you may take it to its territory, That you may know the paths to its home? 21 Do you know it, because you were born then, Or because the number of your days is great? 22 "Have you entered the treasury of snow, Or have you seen the treasury of hail, 23 Which I have reserved for the time of trouble, For the day of battle and war? 24 By what way is light diffused, Or the east wind scattered over the earth? 25 "Who has divided a channel for the overflowing water, Or a path for the thunderbolt, 26 To cause it to rain on a land where there is no one, A wilderness in which there is no man; 27 To satisfy the desolate waste, And cause to spring forth the growth of tender grass? 28 Has the rain a father? Or who has begotten the drops of dew? 29 From whose womb comes the ice? And the frost of heaven, who gives it birth? 30 The waters harden like stone, And the surface of the deep is frozen. 31 "Can you bind the cluster of the Pleiades, Or loose the belt of Orion? 32 Can you bring out Mazzaroth in its season? Or can you guide the Great Bear with its cubs? 33 Do you know the ordinances of the heavens? Can you set their dominion over the earth? 34 "Can you lift up your voice to the clouds, That an abundance of water may cover you? 35 Can you send out lightnings, that they may go, And say to you, 'Here we are!'? 36 Who has put wisdom in the mind? Or who has given understanding to the heart? 37 Who can number the clouds by wisdom? Or who can pour out the bottles of heaven, 38 When the dust hardens in clumps, And the clods cling together? 39 "Can you hunt the prey for the lion, Or satisfy the appetite of the young lions, 40 When they crouch in their dens, Or lurk in their lairs to lie in wait? 41 Who provides food for the raven, When its young ones cry to God, And wander about for lack of food?

Job 39:

1 "Do you know the time when the wild mountain goats bear young? Or can you mark when the deer gives birth? 2 Can you number the months that they fulfill? Or do you know the time when they bear young? 3 They bow down, They bring forth their young, They deliver their offspring. 4 Their young ones are healthy, They grow strong with grain; They depart and do not return to them. 5 "Who set the wild donkey free? Who loosed the bonds of the onager, 6 Whose home I have made the wilderness, And the barren land his dwelling? 7 He scorns the tumult of the city; He does not heed the shouts of the driver. 8 The range of the mountains is his pasture, And he searches after every green thing. 9 "Will the wild ox be willing to serve you? Will he bed by your manger? 10 Can you bind the wild ox in the furrow with ropes? Or will he plow the valleys behind you? 11 Will you trust him because his strength is great? Or will you leave your labor to him? 12 Will you trust him to bring home your grain, And gather it to your threshing floor? 13 "The wings of the ostrich wave proudly, But are her wings and pinions like the kindly stork's? 14 For she leaves her eggs on the ground, And warms them in the dust; 15 She forgets that a foot may crush them, Or that a wild beast may break them. 16 She treats her young harshly, as though they were not hers; Her labor is in vain, without concern, 17 Because God deprived her of wisdom, And did not endow her with understanding. 18 When she lifts herself on high, She scorns the horse and its rider. 19 "Have you given the horse strength? Have you clothed his neck with thunder? 20 Can you frighten him like a locust? His majestic snorting strikes terror. 21 He paws in the valley, and rejoices in his strength; He gallops into the clash of arms. 22 He mocks at fear, and is not frightened; Nor does he turn back from the sword. 23 The quiver rattles against him, The glittering spear and javelin. 24 He devours the distance with fierceness and rage; Nor does he come to a halt because the trumpet has sounded. 25 At the blast of the trumpet he says, 'Aha!' He smells the battle from afar, The thunder of captains and shouting. 26 "Does the hawk fly by your wisdom, And spread its wings toward the south? 27 Does the eagle mount up at your command, And make its nest on high? 28 On the rocks it dwells and resides, On the crag of the rock and the stronghold. 29 From there it spies out the prey; Its eyes observe from afar. 30 Its young ones suck up blood; And where the slain are, there it is."

Job 40:

1 Moreover the Lord answered Job, and said: 2 "Shall the one who contends with the Almighty correct Him? He who rebukes God, let him answer it." 3 Then Job answered the Lord and said: 4 "Behold, I am vile; What shall I answer You? I lay my hand over my mouth. 5 Once I have spoken, but I will not answer; Yes, twice, but I will proceed no further." 6 Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said: 7 "Now prepare yourself like a man; I will question you, and you shall answer Me: 8 "Would you indeed annul My judgment? Would you condemn Me that you may be justified? 9 Have you an arm like God? Or can you thunder with a voice like His? 10 Then adorn yourself with majesty and splendor, And array yourself with glory and beauty. 11 Disperse the rage of your wrath; Look on everyone who is proud, and humble him. 12 Look on everyone who is proud, and bring him low; Tread down the wicked in their place. 13 Hide them in the dust together, Bind their faces in hidden darkness. 14 Then I will also confess to you That your own right hand can save you. 15 "Look now at the behemoth, which I made along with you; He eats grass like an ox. 16 See now, his strength is in his hips, And his power is in his stomach muscles. 17 He moves his tail like a cedar; The sinews of his thighs are tightly knit. 18 His bones are like beams of bronze, His ribs like bars of iron. 19 He is the first of the ways of God; Only He who made him can bring near His sword. 20 Surely the mountains yield food for him, And all the beasts of the field play there. 21 He lies under the lotus trees, In a covert of reeds and marsh. 22 The lotus trees cover him with their shade; The willows by the brook surround him. 23 Indeed the river may rage, Yet he is not disturbed; He is confident, though the Jordan gushes into his mouth, 24 Though he takes it in his eyes, Or one pierces his nose with a snare.

redleghunter  posted on  2012-03-07   18:04:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#66. To: Mad Dog (#60)

you don't even know what WORK is.

but at least i can spell it, simpleton

calcon  posted on  2012-03-07   18:11:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#67. To: NewsJunky (#64)

There are millions of compounds that have less energy in them than the elements of which they are composed. That sentence is a quiet bombshell. It means that the second law energetically FAVORS — yes, predicts firmly — the spontaneous formation of complex, geometrically ordered molecules from utterly simple atoms of elements. Popular statements such as "the second law says that all systems fundamentally tend toward disorder and randomness" are wrong when they refer to chemistry, and chemistry precisely deals with the structure and behavior of all types of matter.

To summarize this important conclusion that is known by very few who are not chemists: Energetically, the second law of thermodynamics favors the formation of the majority of all known complex and ordered chemical compounds directly from their simpler elements. Thus, contrary to popular opinion, the second law does not dictate the decrease of ordered structure by its predictions. It only demands a "spreading out" of energy when such ordered compounds are formed spontaneously.

Also, to repeat a caution: The foregoing only describes energetic relationships involving the second law. It does not mean that most complex substances can be readily synthesized just by mixing elements and treating them in some way. The second law has nothing to do with pathways or procedures of synthesis – only with energy and its tendency to spread out/disperse.

You make a great point that chemistry and physics do not agree on this. And further arguments would be made from a biologist.

"It only demands a "spreading out" of energy when such ordered compounds are formed spontaneously."

And that little statement makes the entire point you are making invalid.

redleghunter  posted on  2012-03-07   18:13:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#68. To: redleghunter (#65)

I don't understand the gobbledygook. Just explain it to me in your own words.

NewsJunky  posted on  2012-03-07   19:05:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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