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Title: What Version of the Christian Holy Bible Do You read?
Source:
LF
URL Source: http://hereandnow
Published: Feb 18, 2012
Author: buckeroo
Post Date: 2012-02-18 17:52:56 by buckeroo
Keywords: None
Views: 272520
Comments: 449
Assuming you have a Christian Holy Bible of one flavor or another, what version do you read? As several examples, here are several variations: the New King James Version, New Living Translation, New International Version, New Revised Standard Version and so forth. Post your comment on this thread.
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#30. To: jwpegler (#29)
Excellent ... what English translation do they use?
It's a new English language translation based on the Greek language Constantinople Patriarchate edition of 1904.
I read their website. They claim either the KJV or RSV version. Here is what they say: Here is the REVISED STANDARD VERSION: [2] Therefore he who resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. [3] For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of him who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, [4] for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain; he is the servant of God to execute his wrath on the wrongdoer. [5] Therefore one must be subject, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience. [6] For the same reason you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing. [7] Pay all of them their dues, taxes to whom taxes are due, revenue to whom revenue is due, respect to whom respect is due, honor to whom honor is due. I don't believe any of this crap.
http://www.openbible.info/topics/understanding Try to keep the commandments of Jesus, and then you will get the understanding that you will never find, otherwise. Faith comes before knowledge. Job 28:28 And he said to man,’Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom, and to turn away from evil is understanding.’” That is awesome if you want to know Jesus. Turn from all evil, invite Him into your life-open your heart for the revolution of love that he will show you- and pray to God for forgiveness of past sin. THEN you will know which Bible is right. Until you do those things, you will be chasing your tail, and nothing will make sense. Jesus was NOT a rebel against the government. He was a rebel against darkness, illness and hatred. And God bless you and make His light to shine on your life.
I found an official resource of an online version of from the Geneva Bible. Here is the copy: 01Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers: for there is no power but of God: and the powers that be, are ordained of God. 02Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist, shall receive to themselves condemnation. 03For Magistrates are not to be feared for good works, but for evil. Wilt thou then be without fear of the power? do well: so shalt thou have praise of the same. 04For he is the minister of God for thy wealth: but if thou do evil, fear: for he beareth not the sword for nought: for he is the minister of God to take vengeance on him that doeth evil. 05Wherefore ye must be subject, not because of wrath only, but also for conscience sake. 06For, for this cause ye pay also tribute: for they are God`s ministers, applying themselves for the same thing. 07Give to all men therefore their duty: tribute, to whom ye owe tribute: custom, to whom custom: fear, to whom fear: honor, to whom ye owe honor. It is not much different than the KJV. Thanks for sharing.
Really? But before going too far... stick with hondo's post#1 Romans 13 1-7 post. USE POST #1 FOR THE REST OF YOUR DISCUSSION. Also, show how some of these interpretations of Romans 13 provide that GOVERNMENT is TO BE OBEYED as some squirming maggot to be squished by some black booted thug.
buck- if you sincerely and honestly want to understand Jesus, then I pray blessings all over you and want to encourage you. There is no greater pursuit or use of your time. Something you really need to get your head around is the character of Jesus, so you can understand the Scriptures. When you understand the character of Jesus, you will be able to pick up any Bible, and understand the Word of God. Until you surrender to God, and ask for Jesus- and seek salvation, the Bible is not going to make any sense to you. You have no foundation, without your cornerstone. Jesus saves those who seek Him. Jesus, himself said that he did not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill the law. Jesus himself said, render to Caesar what is Ceasar's and to God what is God's. Jesus himself told us to follow laws and commandments. Jesus himself paid the temple tax that was required. Jesus told his followers to observe the laws. Jesus was a revolutionary- because He was talking about love and salvation and repentance from sin. No one else was talking about that stuff. He was not talking about revolution over the government. There is a very good reason for that and it is much deeper than you understanding of one simple translation of Romans 13. You have to go so much deeper. Pray for salvation first- before going any further, if your are serious. And of course, God bless your period of seeking. If you are playing games, turn back now- because you would be mocking God, and that is so unwise.
DBR - Let me caution you about something ... this is NOT a thread about your personal salvation and all that muck to get all emotional for my soul because some snake-handler told you to "walk on the waters and spread the word" as Jesus did. I am a deist. I am so convinced that the world is full of shit because people like you believe in some STUPID TRINITY and all that cockamamie, I don't want to hear about it. Well, unless YOU CAN PROVE YOUR BELIEF. I am interested in what version of the BIBLE you read, that is ALL, hence the title of this thread. If you provide convincing arguments about the reasons for your choice, fine; I shall research that, too. One person already did so and it was the Geneva Bible which is similar to the KJV. So, what version of the Bible do you read?
pft! Your research on the Bible? lol.... Yeah- that is something smart for people to consider.. ok buck. Follow your free will. Whatever.
Hondo - I just researched a wee bit about your excellent resource, Harry Stout. I'm buying his book: The New England Soul: Preaching and Religious Culture in Colonial New England. As a synopsis of the book:
I guess YOU do. Still what version of the Christian Bible so you read?
The Septuagint refers to the Old Testament. The New Testament was originally written in Greek. The version that the Orthodox Church uses has now been translated to English.
Where can I find an on-line copy of Romans 13. Thank you.
Definitely a step up from reading the satanic rantings of an Obama worshiper like diva.
Obama's watch stopped on 24 May 2008, but he's been too busy smoking crack to notice.
DBR seems to think diametrically opposed to my antithetical opinion ... Strange as it may seem, the many variations we find with the Christian Holy Bible *IS* the very reason for the many variations of churches and interpretations of Jesus of Nazareth own words. Jesus was a REBEL! I can PROVE it, too, DBR.
Biblegateway
Very true. I am always dismayed when I talk to American fundamentalists, who have no idea where the New Testament came from. Here's the short story: In the 300 hundred years after Christ was crucified, a lot of Christian groups sprung up in the Middle East, with widely different views of Christ's deity and humanity. There wasn't any New Testament. Some groups used word of mouth. Others collected various combinations of writings by the Apostles and others. In the early 4th century, leaders of the Western Church (Rome) and Eastern Church (Constantinople, Alexandria, Antioch, and Jerusalem) decided Christianity needed an official version and a set of writings that would support it. It took them almost 100 years to put the New Testament together. During the 100 year process, there were many disagreements on what should be included. The four Gospels were universally accepted. Other books were hotly contested. The disputed books included Hebrews, James, 2nd and 3rd John, 2d Peter, Jude, Revelations, the Shepard of Hermas, Apocalypse of Peter, Epistle of Barnabas, and the Epistle of Clement. Finally in 396 AD, the new Testament was declared finalized. However there were still bibles produced in the east that contained Barnabas, but not Revelations for sometime after the decree. The decisions made about what to include in the New Testament are documented in the writings of the first seven Ecumenical Councils. Catholics and Orthodox look to those writings in addition to the New Testament because they tell why these particular books were chosen to be in the New Testament. Fundamentalist Protestants just don't have a clue about any of this. A few years ago I sat on a plane next to a fundamentalist preacher, who had his own unaffiliated church. He said flat out that what is wrong with American Protestantism is that they don't have any ties to history. Their congregations don't have any knowledge about the rich history of Christianity and how our current broad Christian views actually came into being. That's very sad.
I don't know that there is download since the version is brand new. Here is a write up on what the Orthodox Church believes about Romans 13. The salient point: Paul is being crystal clear here: we should consult our "conscience," i.e. our Christian conscience, according to the true Word of God, in order to judge the deeds of those rulers and whether they are set "for good" or for evil among us. If they are "for good," then tribute is indeed due. If they are for evil, then "fear" is due. Now, hand on heart, are your rulers true followers of God? Who is our ultimate ruler? Who should our earthly ministers follow and obey? Jesus Christ said it clearly: "I am the Alpha and the Omega." Christ is the beginning and the end. Only He rules. His ministers are but those following His Way and functioning by His example. To them, our tribute is due. Don’t deal with the rest.
Excellent point. I want to suggest that the Catholic Saint Jerome whom studied in Alexandria, Egypt under the auspices of the Egyptian Christian Copts, performed that deed with the direction of Pope Damasus I; Jerome's translation of Greek into Latin became the official Christian Holy Bible (Vulgate, circa ~400) for over a thousand years or into the early Renaissance Era of Europe (circa ~1400).
I want thank you again, hondo. I am reading Stout's book, "The New England Soul: Preaching and Religious Culture in Colonial New England." as a quick overview, it is interesting to note that ALMOST ALL the documented sermons that Stout offers has little or nothing to say concerning the Apostle Paul. BTW, Stout's research in this published work only discusses a timeline upto 1776. HAHAHAHAHA .. I wonder why? Anyone got a clue?
Not really sure, but around that time Tories became very unpopular and many left riding a rail after being tarred and feathered, and ended up in Canada or elsewhere. Wouldn't be surprised if some religious types were among them. Eventually they seemed to end up on FR and LP, claiming that they wuz hacked.
Obama's watch stopped on 24 May 2008, but he's been too busy smoking crack to notice.
Thanks for the commentary and critique and although I linked it into my database I want to find Romans 13 in a similar way that hondo showed in his post#1. Do I have to buy: hardcopy for fifty bucks to learn about their official translation? If it is a recent work, why is it NOT online to buy at a fraction of the price?
I read them all. Any one that I want to read. I also listen to people from all different denominations- go to temple on occasion, observe Jewish holy days- pray to keep all of the commandments- and read the Gnostic gospels. I also pray and ask for revelation. I am very confident that there is nothing that you could explain to me. :) You are not going to find understanding in any one single translation. It is not there. God is love and is spirit. The great spirit in the sky, is the Holy Spirit. People have understood this for thousands of years- and somehow it has totally evaded you. That is a heart matter. THE one and only way to understand the ministry of Jesus- and to know God, is to be reborn with the Holy Spirit. that means that you allow your spirit to be alive. What deity of yours is going to do that for you? What deity of yours has shown you the way? I say none have. Jesus did tho- and that is historical not just spiritual. Since that is not something you are interested in understanding- your pursuit of knowledge of the Bible- is hopeless, because all you are going to learn is the ways of man and religion. Good luck with that. Man is a mess. Jesus is the hope of the entire world. Best wishes tho- have fun.
The download site is broken. You can buy a paperback version on-line for $13.99 at Amazon or Barnes and Nobel. Here is some more Christian theology for your consideration (this is jwpegler's view -- which has its roots in 2,000 year old Orthodox Christianity, a bit of Lutheranism, and some personal interpretations as well): Is the Bible the "inspired" Word of God or the "inerrant" Word of God? In other words, did God dictate word-for-word what the authors of the New Testament books wrote or did God just inspire them to what to write what God was communicating? It's an important question. Paul wrote a lot of letters to various peoples to convince them to accept Christ. The Roman Empire was the major political authority of the day. Paul tried to convince them that accepting Christ would not endanger their political authority. (Romans 13: It's okay to pay taxes, just accept Christ.) It worked. The Romans did accept Christ and it changed the history of the world. Paul also wrote the "Letters to the Hebrews" to try to convince them that Christianity was an extension of their historical beliefs, so they should accept Christ. In this case, it didn't work. Most Hebrews rejected Christ. (Dispensationalist Christians love to point to Hebrews as evidence that we need to kiss the Likud Party's ass to be saved. They don't just don't understand the historical context of Paul's writings.) Traditional Christianity believes that the New Testament is the inspired word of God, not the inerrant world of God. American dispensationalists believe otherwise. Paul was God's messenger, not his secretary. Paul was a salesman for Christ. Like all great salesmen, he tailored his message to his audience. He did a great job, for Christ. But he lost one big deal (the Hebrews). No salesman wins every deal.
LOL
I see .... what does the following passage mean: Certainly, since you read all of them [Bibles] you can find a moment to explain this single passage? I haven't suggested that I WOULD explain anything. Far from it, I have a relatively simple question and to this moment in the thread, you have yet to answer it. GREAT!!! So help me out on that one example I have cited above.
It's an important question. Good stuff, you suggest. Here is my perspective: The written Bible (The Old Testament) sprang from the Jewish Tankh and the forerunner of the Tanakh came from the Jewish Talmud comprised of Palestinian an Babylonian oral traditions for hundreds of years. When I was in a military class, there was an experiment on oral communications wherein there was a set of mutually exclusive participants comprised of four separate students, for notation: s1, s2, s3, and s4 where s1 was permitted to take his time and read some fairely minor details from a documents script. Once s1 completed his reading, the documented script was removed for the remainder of the exercise. s2 was invited to to come into the classroom. s1 then orally delivered the data to s2 with some fairely accurate reconstruction and then asked s2 if he was satisfied with the data. When s2 assured s1 that he was confident with the details, s1 was removed and now, s2 delivered the data to s3. Here was the main change in data and was very inaccurate. Once s2 was confident with the data (of course) s2 left the experiment and s3 came in .... and so on with s4. Now, s1 returns and retrieves the data from s4. The data was completely distorted and stripped of details that were very important within the experiment and ALL new data was delivered. This experiment categorically PROVES that the dissemination of information from one person to another through an oral approach can yield tragic results in the real world. So, let's go back to the the Jewish Talmud which was the oral tradition information dissemination of the Jews from generation to generation, in fact about 1500 years from Abraham/Sarah (circa ~2000 BCE) to the fall of Israel by the Babylonians and the resultant exile of the Jews from Israel to Babylon (circa ~500 BCE). When the Jews came back to Israel (circa ~500 BCE), they also brought back some interesting ideas from Sumerian/Babylonian religious thought that I think merged some of the oral traditions of the Jews into some more refinement concerning their monotheism, such as designing a written word, the Tanakh (circa ~400) But thousands of years elapsed before the Tanukh! Data handed down from cow herder to sheep herder begat this... begat that ... begat here ... begat there! Don't you think that there would be inaccuracies of the earlier generations through all that oral traditions? I do. As for the New Testament, we are confronted by the same situation although the Vulgate was designed (circa ~ 400 CE) just a few generations away (relatively speaking) from the Crucifixion of Christ (circa ~30 CE) Now, the Apostles traveled widely all over the Mediterranean area. All were crucified or put to death but John. He died about circa ~100 CE. It is important to know that because of the wide and varied traveling they independently pursued that differences occurred with the many early Christian Churches. Indeed, Mark established his domain in Alexandria Egypt and his foundations established the Copts whom created the GREATEST libraries around. But, none of their individual works or deeds were unified except through the Holy Roman Church, primarily via the Vulgate by Jerome whom studied in Alexandria and translated many of the canons later accepted in to the Vulgate. But, back to your question, it is obvious to me that we are dealing with fallible people separated by lengthy trips and as a result many variations in traditions. So, I agree with your view about Paul, as well. And any of the original texts are interpretations, although I would wager fairely accurate.
Honestly... I have to spend some more time trying to figure out why you don't see the common threads, that connect all of those interpretations. I am speechless that you don't see it. I'll have to figure you out later, buck. Lent is here. 40 days. See you after Easter. bye.
Me to. Here is the KJV again: Matthew 11:12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force. How did Kingdom of Heaven "suffer" violence? Seems pretty fishy to me. Yeah ... I scratch my head on this one. Why "figure" me out? Why not just interpret the passage? WoW ... are leaving me hanging here?
buck- honestly- I really am observing Lent, and praying and fasting and that has been a great experience, but I don't want to leave you hanging, and I apologize if that answer sounded curt. I didn't mean for it to sound negative. I honestly want to help you understand. BUT.. You have burned me in the past, and I really do not want to waste valuable energy arguing with you, or playing cyber games. If you are sincere about seeking this knowledge, I can think of nothing more valuable to do- right now- than hang out with you and discuss your questions. I want you to be honest, are you being authentic here? The message of all of those verses is the same. The Kingdom of Haven suffered violence when He was beaten to a bloody pulp, mocked and humiliated- and hung on a cross to be a curse, to absorb the wrath of God, to fulfill the law of atonement for sin- for every person on Earth. The violent take the Earth by force- and God sends us a savior- that whoever shall believe in Him shall be set free. God in not violent. He does not take the Earth by force. Each person has free will. Those verses are also to set the stage that Jesus knew that he would suffer violence- and he knew he was not going to bring an overthrowing of the violence. Jesus knew the violence of man was not going to stop- but that he was still willing to die- to make the statement that HE was the way to the Father and to Heaven. It leaves us a working legacy. That verse teaches us about the character of Jesus. Here is a man who knew exactly what violence he was going to face- and he faced. WHY would he do that? He did it because he is who he says he is- and.. Jesus showed us how to live in peaceful resistance ,to the violence of the world. The Bible speaks of the past, present and future at the same time. Just like there is the Trinity. To someone who does not understand the supernatural existence of God- these things make no sense at all. To gain understanding of anything in the Bible- you MUST first accept that God's ways are not man's ways. So listen- honestly- I want to take this time for my spiritual retreat- but I will respectfully address any sincere questions you have. Please don't play games. If you have an honest question, I will answer honestly and kindly, to the best of my ability. Just because it is the internet and we don't know each other- doesn't mean it is cool to waste each other's time. Ok?
I am always dismayed when I talk to American fundamentalists, who have no idea where the New Testament came from. Here's the short story: In the 300 hundred years after Christ was crucified, a lot of Christian groups sprung up in the Middle East, with widely different views of Christ's deity and humanity. There wasn't any New Testament. Some groups used word of mouth. Others collected various combinations of writings by the Apostles and others. In the early 4th century, leaders of the Western Church (Rome) and Eastern Church (Constantinople, Alexandria, Antioch, and Jerusalem) decided Christianity needed an official version and a set of writings that would support it. It took them almost 100 years to put the New Testament together. During the 100 year process, there were many disagreements on what should be included. The four Gospels were universally accepted. Other books were hotly contested. The disputed books included Hebrews, James, 2nd and 3rd John, 2d Peter, Jude, Revelations, the Shepard of Hermas, Apocalypse of Peter, Epistle of Barnabas, and the Epistle of Clement. Finally in 396 AD, the new Testament was declared finalized. However there were still bibles produced in the east that contained Barnabas, but not Revelations for sometime after the decree. The decisions made about what to include in the New Testament are documented in the writings of the first seven Ecumenical Councils. Catholics and Orthodox look to those writings in addition to the New Testament because they tell why these particular books were chosen to be in the New Testament. Fundamentalist Protestants just don't have a clue about any of this. A few years ago I sat on a plane next to a fundamentalist preacher, who had his own unaffiliated church. He said flat out that what is wrong with American Protestantism is that they don't have any ties to history. Their congregations don't have any knowledge about the rich history of Christianity and how our current broad Christian views actually came into being. That's very sad. You have obviously been talking to the wrong people. The books of the New Testament were complete prior to the end of the First Century. http://www.errantskeptics.org/DatingNT-ChronologicalOrder.htm “You have to understand that the canon was not the result of a series of contests involving church politics. The canon is rather the separation that came about because of the intuitive insight of Christian believers. They could hear the Good Shepherd in the Gospel of John; they could hear it only muffled and distorted way in the Gospel of Thas miomxed in with a lot of other things. “When the pronouncement was made about the canon, it merely ratified what the general sensitivity of the church had already determined. You see, the canon is a list of authoritative books more than it is an authoritative list of books. These documents didn’t derive their authority from being selected; each one was authoritative before anyone gathered them together. The early church merely listened and sensed that these were authoritative accounts. “For somebody now to say that the canon emerged only after councils and synods made these pronouncements would be like saying, ‘Let’s get several academies of musicians to make a pronouncement that the music of Bach and Beethoven is wonderful.’ I would say, ‘Thank you for nothing! We knew it because of sensitivity to what is good music and what is not. The same with the canon.” Dr. Bruce M. Metzger, Ph.D. Paul joins OT and NT as both Scripture 1 Timothy 5:18 (ESV) For the Scripture says, *“You shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain,” and, *“The laborer deserves his wages.” Deuteronomy 25:4 (ESV) OBAMA HAS SPENT MORE MONEY THAN ANY OTHER PERSON IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND.
I have 100+ Bibles, however I generally read the ESV, NIV, NLT, NASB1995, and the KJV for English translations. I also have Bibles in Greek, Hebrew, Latin, and several other languages, which I refer to occasionally.
OBAMA HAS SPENT MORE MONEY THAN ANY OTHER PERSON IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND.
In other words, printers removed the Apocrypha from the Bible, not any church. That is not correct. The so-called missing books of the OT, known as the Apocrypha (meaning “hidden” or “doubtful”), are not missing and do not belong in the OT for many reasons. (1) Unlike the canonical books, the apocryphal books do not have either an explicit or implicit claim to be inspired by God. In fact, some even disclaim being prophetic (cp. 1 Mac 9:27; 14:41). (2) They were written between 250 B.C. and the first century A.D., but according to Judaism, the Spirit of prophecy had departed from Israel before that time, by about 400 B.C. (3) The Jewish historian Josephus gave the names and numbers of the authentic Jewish OT, which correspond exactly with the 39 books of our OT (Against Apion 1.8). (4) Judaism, which produced these books, has never accepted them into its Bible (the Hebrew Scriptures, corresponding to our OT). (5) Neither Jesus nor the apostles ever cited any of the Apocrypha in the NT as inspired. (6) Most of the church fathers of the first four centuries of the Christian church did not accept these books as inspired. (7) Jerome, the great Roman Catholic scholar (c. A.D. 420) who translated the Latin Vulgate Bible, emphatically rejected the apocryphal books. (8) The acceptance of these books in A.D. 1546 by the Roman Catholic Church is unjustified since: (a) they were the wrong group to make this decision (Christians, not Jews); (b) it took place at the wrong time (sixteenth century A.D.); and (c) it was done for the wrong reasons (for example, to support the doctrine of prayers for the dead [see 2 Mac 12:45] in response to the Reformation and biblical teaching to the contrary [Heb 9:27]).
OBAMA HAS SPENT MORE MONEY THAN ANY OTHER PERSON IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND.
The Greek Orthodox Church has recently release a new English translation of the New Testament called the Eastern / Greek Orthodox Bible. The OC used the NKJV for their NT.
OBAMA HAS SPENT MORE MONEY THAN ANY OTHER PERSON IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND.
You are confusing 2 completely separate things: A.) When were the individual documents written? B.) When were the individual documents selected for inclusion into the official Christian Bible (the New Testament)? The answer to B is 396 AD. Prior to 396 AD, there were a lot of very, very different collections of writings that circulated among Christian. The Four Gospels were universally accepted. Many of the other books, that I name above, were NOT.
The American Orthodox Study Bible is based on NKJV. But the Bible used in Greek mass is the Patriarchal version on of 1906, written in Greek. That has now been translated into English for the first time.
Throughout history the Jews have been clueless. Ignore those retarded Messiah deniers.
Obama's watch stopped on 24 May 2008, but he's been too busy smoking crack to notice.
No. Prior to 396 AD (and for sometime after), many Bibles included the Shepherd of Hermas, the Epistle of Barnabas, and many others books that were not included in the final New Testament. A lot of Christians revered these books. Many of the Bibles in circulation did NOT include Revelations and other disputed books. These are called FACTS, not American dispensationalist propaganda.
Hey buck- I have looked back here a few times, to see if you answered. Unless I missed it, you didn't answer. That's cool- BUT.. I really am going deep into prayer for the whole weekend now, and I am not getting back online here. What I want to leave you with is that I honestly believe that you are valuable enough to have an honest discussion with-and that the Lord loves you, whether you call yourself a deist or not. Salvation is something that is written about FOR you. You are JUST as entitled to salvation as I am ,and no matter what you have done or called yourself- you are savable and wanted, as am I. (that goes for anyone reading) Ok? So we are equal in the eyes of the Lord. I am not an authority to you. The Lord is the authority and then there is everyone else. I just have a fear of the Lord, and a love for Jesus that is YET untapped in you- or at least in your postings here. The Bible can either be a book of lies and distortions OR the most simplest thing written, in the history of the world- laying out peace and healing and an abudnant life. It all starts with what we are afraid of. I, personally, am deeply afraid of a life where Jesus rots in a tomb. I have made a choice that my perception of life will not be from the eyes of a human being- who is not possible of healing, love and peace. And since I chose that- my life is blessed, safe and peaceful. THOSE are the consequences of my choice. We all make choices and live and die with those choices. I am praying for you. I am seeking your understanding of those scriptures in a new way, so you can make informed choices. I want that peace for you, in your life. In fact, I pray that anyone reading this- will have the same peace I have. I have to jet, and go into a spiritual weekend. I will look back here sometime next week to see if you want to chat. Take care. Oh and here is a tune: www.youtube.com/watch? v=GCi8P7W_tAw
Show me, in the canons of the Holy Bible where there is a reference to a "trinity." Thank you.
You are correct, I didn't answer. You have confused me with that which is simple. If what you say is true, how do you read: Just asking, of course.
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#31. To: buckeroo (#30)
what English translation do they use?
Iran’s main drive for acquiring atomic weapons is not for use against Israel but as a deterrent against U.S. intervention -- Major General Zeevi Farkash, head of the Israeli Military Intelligence Directorate
#32. To: jwpegler (#29)
(Edited)
The Eastern Orthodox Church officially uses the Septuagint, the Greek Old Testament which was translated from the original Hebrew language into Greek in the third century B.C. The Septuagint of the Orthodox Church contains all the Canonical Books and the Anaginoskoinena Books "worthy to be read" (called Apocrypha in the English Versions). For the New Testament, the original Greek text is used by the Greek Church, while the other Orthodox Churches have translated the Bible into their own native languages from the original Greek, with the Slavonic translation the oldest. The Orthodox Church has not, as yet, translated the Bible into English and so has no official English translation. In the meantime, the Orthodox are temporarily using both the King James Version and the Revised Standard Version.
Rom.13 [1] Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.
#33. To: buckeroo (#28)
#34. To: freedomsnotfree (#2)
Good grief...I use the Geneva bible, often called the pilgrims bible because it's the bible brought over on the Mayflower, and pre-dates the King James bible by 51 years
The Epistle Of The Apostle Paul To The Romans - Romans 1-7
#35. To: diva betsy ross, hondo68 (#33)
(Edited)
Jesus was NOT a rebel against the government. He was a rebel against darkness, illness and hatred.
#36. To: buckeroo (#35)
(Edited)
#37. To: diva betsy ross (#36)
You have to go so much deeper.
#38. To: buckeroo (#37)
#39. To: hondo68, all (#28)
From Library Journal Stout provides an exhaustive, scholarly survey of the content of both regular and special-occasion sermons in New England from 1630 to 1776. Unlike most previous studies, this monograph treats manuscript sources as well as printed sources. The more than 2000 sermons Stout studies are divided into five generational cohorts based on the dates of the clergy's education, and they give a creditable sample of what the average colonial New Englander heard from the pulpit. For Stout, all five colonial clergy generations experienced and preached a continuing concept of New England settlers as a convenanted people with a unique relationship to God similar to ancient Israel's. Strongly recommended for academic and seminary libraries.Susan A. Stussy, Marian Coll. Lib., Indianapolis Copyright 1986 Reed Business Information, Inc.
#40. To: diva betsy ross (#38)
Follow your free will. Whatever.
#41. To: buckeroo (#32)
The Eastern Orthodox Church officially uses the Septuagint...
Iran’s main drive for acquiring atomic weapons is not for use against Israel but as a deterrent against U.S. intervention -- Major General Zeevi Farkash, head of the Israeli Military Intelligence Directorate
#42. To: jwpegler (#41)
#43. To: buckeroo, diva betsy ross, *Yukon neo-Progressive Vermin* (#39)
Harry Stout. I'm buying his book: The New England Soul: Preaching and Religious Culture in Colonial New England
"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul
#44. To: hondo68, diva betsy ross (#43)
#45. To: buckeroo (#42)
If you're gonna stir my pot, you'd better get a good grip on the handle!
#46. To: buckeroo (#44)
(Edited)
The New Testament was NOT dropped from heaven.
Iran’s main drive for acquiring atomic weapons is not for use against Israel but as a deterrent against U.S. intervention -- Major General Zeevi Farkash, head of the Israeli Military Intelligence Directorate
#47. To: buckeroo (#42)
Iran’s main drive for acquiring atomic weapons is not for use against Israel but as a deterrent against U.S. intervention -- Major General Zeevi Farkash, head of the Israeli Military Intelligence Directorate
#48. To: jwpegler (#46)
Finally in 396 AD, the new Testament was declared finalized. However there were still bibles produced in the east that contained Barnabas, but not Revelations for sometime after the decree.
#49. To: All (#39)
#50. To: buckeroo (#49)
(Edited)
a timeline upto 1776. HAHAHAHAHA .. I wonder why?
"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul
#51. To: jwpegler (#47)
#52. To: buckeroo (#40)
(Edited)
#53. To: buckeroo (#51)
(Edited)
Iran’s main drive for acquiring atomic weapons is not for use against Israel but as a deterrent against U.S. intervention -- Major General Zeevi Farkash, head of the Israeli Military Intelligence Directorate
#54. To: hondo68 (#50)
Eventually they seemed to end up on FR and LP, claiming that they wuz hacked.
#55. To: diva betsy ross (#52)
read them all. Any one that I want to read. I also listen to people from all different denominations- go to temple on occasion, observe Jewish holy days- pray to keep all of the commandments- and read the Gnostic gospels. I also pray and ask for revelation.
I am very confident that there is nothing that you could explain to me.
You are not going to find understanding in any one single translation. It is not there.
#56. To: jwpegler (#53)
Is the Bible the "inspired" Word of God or the "inerrant" Word of God? In other words, did God dictate word-for-word what the authors of the New Testament books wrote or did God just inspire them to what to write what God was communicating?
#57. To: buckeroo (#55)
#58. To: diva betsy ross (#57)
Honestly... I have to spend some more time trying to figure out why you don't see the common threads, that connect all of those interpretations.
I am speechless that you don't see it.
I'll have to figure you out later, buck. Lent is here. 40 days. See you after Easter.
bye.
#59. To: buckeroo (#58)
(Edited)
#60. To: jwpegler (#46)
Paul, in 1 Timothy 5:18 joins both Old and New Testament references, and calls them Scripture.
[4] *“You shall not muzzle an ox when it is treading out the grain. Luke 10:7 (ESV)
[7] And remain in the same house, eating and drinking what they provide, for *the laborer deserves his wages. Do not go from house to house.
#61. To: buckeroo (#0)
#62. To: hondo68 (#14)
American printers discovered that they could leave out the Apocrypha and sell the Bible for the same price, and no one would care because it wasn’t used much. Some of the homegrown religious groups naïvely assumed that whatever was not in their Bible was not in the canon. Later, when Catholics became a significant segment of the population, a non-Catholic would say, “That’s not in the Bible” to a Catholic, completely unaware that it was the printer who left it out. A Lutheran pastor told me that one of his parishioners was insistent that the Lutheran Church did not recognize the Apocrypha as canonical. The parishioner was astonished when he saw the church by-law that says it is. Catholics, Protestants, and Orthodox Christians use the Apocrypha, and it is part of the Bible for them. Many independent churches and low-church denominations think it is a Catholic addition when it is really a printer’s subtraction.
#63. To: jwpegler (#29)
The New Testament was originally written in Greek.
#64. To: GarySpFC (#60)
(Edited)
The books of the New Testament were complete prior to the end of the First Century.
Iran’s main drive for acquiring atomic weapons is not for use against Israel but as a deterrent against U.S. intervention -- Major General Zeevi Farkash, head of the Israeli Military Intelligence Directorate
#65. To: GarySpFC (#63)
(Edited)
The OC used the NKJV for their NT.
Iran’s main drive for acquiring atomic weapons is not for use against Israel but as a deterrent against U.S. intervention -- Major General Zeevi Farkash, head of the Israeli Military Intelligence Directorate
#66. To: GarySpFC (#62)
Judaism, which produced these books, has never accepted them into its Bible (the Hebrew Scriptures, corresponding to our OT).
"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul
#67. To: GarySpFC (#60)
(Edited)
“You have to understand that the canon was not the result of a series of contests involving church politics. The canon is rather the separation that came about because of the intuitive insight of Christian believers. They could hear the Good Shepherd in the Gospel of John; they could hear it only muffled and distorted way in the Gospel of Thas miomxed in with a lot of other things. “When the pronouncement was made about the canon, it merely ratified what the general sensitivity of the church had already determined."
Iran’s main drive for acquiring atomic weapons is not for use against Israel but as a deterrent against U.S. intervention -- Major General Zeevi Farkash, head of the Israeli Military Intelligence Directorate
#68. To: buckeroo (#58)
(Edited)
Prov 1:28-33 (NIV) "They will call to me but I will not answer; they will look for me but will not find me. Since they hated knowledge and did not choose to fear the Lord, since they would not accept my advice and spurned my rebuke, they will eat of the fruit of their ways and be filled with the fruit of their schemes. For the waywardness of the simple will kill them, and the complacency of fools will destroy them; but whoever listens to me will live in safety and be at ease, without fear of harm."
#69. To: diva betsy ross (#59)
Just like there is the Trinity.
#70. To: diva betsy ross (#68)
Unless I missed it, you didn't answer.
I have made a choice that my perception of life will not be from the eyes of a human being- who is not possible of healing, love and peace. And since I chose that- my life is blessed, safe and peaceful. THOSE are the consequences of my choice.
(KJV) Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
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