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Title: What Version of the Christian Holy Bible Do You read?
Source:
LF
URL Source: http://hereandnow
Published: Feb 18, 2012
Author: buckeroo
Post Date: 2012-02-18 17:52:56 by buckeroo
Keywords: None
Views: 272645
Comments: 449
Assuming you have a Christian Holy Bible of one flavor or another, what version do you read? As several examples, here are several variations: the New King James Version, New Living Translation, New International Version, New Revised Standard Version and so forth. Post your comment on this thread.
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#301. To: redleghunter (#291)
It is hard to tell you two apart, since you work in a tag team. But anyway, you may believe that the fishermen knew the OT and were theology students, however that is not true. The word tells us that they were uneducated. You really need to read the Bible red, and stop taking gary's word for it. He has led you astray. The 12 disciples represent all different walks of life. The word says that they did NOT know of the prophecies... meaning they were not educated in theology- because THAT was the entire theology at the time. The OT is the word of God from the prophets- THAT a savior was on His way. John 12:16 >> New International Version (©1984) At first his disciples did not understand all this. Only after Jesus was glorified did they realize that these things had been written about him and that they had done these things to him. New Living Translation (©2007) His disciples didn't understand at the time that this was a fulfillment of prophecy. But after Jesus entered into his glory, they remembered what had happened and realized that these things had been written about him So- there is what you say- and what the word says.
Here is Matt 5:22 in the KJV: Matthew 5:22 (KJV) "But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire." Here is how the NIV puts it. 22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister[b][c] will be subject to judgment. Jesus got angry, is and is subject to judgement according to the NIV. That is the way it appears to me. So if I am correct how many other errors are in the NIV?
Jesus taught them the scriptures from the Old Testament.
I disagree. Both the historical evidence and the word of God say otherwise. It is quite clear to anyone who takes the time to look. Diva, your statements regarding me are blatantly false. I have always stated the Christian faith is based on the historical evidence of the Christ of the Bible. I believe it is the duty of "every" Christian to give an account of how they came to a saving faith in Christ. The focus of a Christian's testimony is Jesus Christ, NOT ME. IT'S NOT ALL ABOUT ME, ME, ME, ME, ME, ME, ME, ME!
OBAMA HAS SPENT MORE MONEY THAN ANY OTHER PERSON IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND.
gary- when you address me in the future, understand that you are addressing an ordained minister. Okay? Now- you started this all with your attacks and gossip and stalking when I was giving a personal testimony, to a poster last year- and you have continued to attack personal testimony. The Bible is clear about where faith comes from. You can believe that people ONLY come to faith by the historical evidence. That may be for some people- but that is NOT for all people- and nothing you can say will prove otherwise. You beleive there is one way- and you know the one way and nothing you say comes from faith or understanding. It comes from what you have been told, by another human being. That is idolatry. That is a sin. And you know it. You chase people away- who come to faith by hearing, and that is so demonic. You use your status to cause people to doubt their faith by hearing, and that is why you are a useful tool for Satan. Not everyone HAS to be into theology. That is many times, a call from God- because He has gifted wisdom. Reading the Bible and teaching the Bible are not the same thing. The only ONE WAY- is Jesus, and everyone born is entitled seek after Him and expect to be addressed by God himself. You do not have the one way. In fact- you do not represent the word of God. You represent the word of gary ,and that is where we are always divided. You call me a witch and evil and get others to rally to your cause- because I don't bow to you. That is called ego. No one has to bow to any of us- they are only to bow to God. You point the way to you, with your personal narrow understanding. That is not how God works. We are gifted according to faith. YOU are the one who makes it about YOU YOU YOU. You have been gifted according to your faith. You need to step it up if you find yourself being jealous. And do not shut the doors to others, because you, yourself- do not want to surrender. Romans 10:17 >> New International Version (©1984) Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ. New Living Translation (©2007) So faith comes from hearing, that is, hearing the Good News about Christ You are very clearly wrong- and you should not put a heavy yoke on people, that their faith in Jesus MUST come from embracing historical evidence. The historical evidence is not 100% conclusive. I like data, history, logic and I did not come to my faith by any of that. Don't mislead people. Nothing is 100%. If the historical evidence speaks to someone- great. If not- that is ok too.
.. explains our need for a Savior by NOT ringing any bells. The Jews do not accept Jesus of Nazareth as the Messiah; if any group would have accepted him FIRST, it should have been these folks from Palestine, Galilee and Judea and Babylon (etc). Why do you suppose the JEWS largely discredit Jesus of Nazareth as the Messiah? And don't discuss "Jews for Jesus!" that group is not representative of the Pharisees. I am assuming there are two questions above. One is why we need a Savior and the other was why did the Jews reject Jesus Christ. If I am in error of defining your questions please let me know. I will start with the Israelite rejection of Jesus Christ. In the OT Isaiah reports the following in Chapter 53: www.biblestudytools.co m/nkjv/isaiah/53.html Here are some other OT references predicting that the Messiah would be rejected by His own people: "He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not." (Isaiah 53:3) "Thus saith the LORD, the Redeemer of Israel, and his Holy One, to him whom man despiseth, to him whom the nation abhorreth ..." (Isaiah 49:7) "I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair: I hid not my face from shame and spitting." (Isaiah 50:6) "Thou hast known my reproach, and my shame, and my dishonour: mine adversaries are all before thee. Reproach hath broken my heart: and I am full of heaviness: and I looked for some to take pity, but there was none; and for comforters, but I found none." (Psalm 69:19,20) Now for the Jews of Jesus' time, it is clear they were looking for a political/military leader to throw the Romans out of Israel and set up an eternal Kingdom. Jesus in the Gospels offered the Kingdom of God (in Matthew called the Kingdom of Heaven) to His people Israel. However, the Kingdom of God presented by Jesus Christ was on His terms, His Will. The Jews, especially the religious leaders, rejected the Kingdom presented by Christ. So in summary, the Jews wanted an earthly King who would defeat Rome and the Herod's. Also, when the Jewish religious leaders saw how the miracles and sermons of Jesus were turning hearts to God, they became jealous and wanted Him dead. Finally, I should note that the early Christian church was predominately Jewish. The second point "explains our need for a Savior." You probably have read Romans several times, but may I suggest reading chapters 1-10 again with your question in mind? Here is a good link to the book of Romans: www.biblestudytools.com/nkjv/ romans/ Below are key points from Romans Chapter 3: 9 What then? Are we better than they? Not at all. For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin. 10 As it is written: "There is none righteous, no, not one; 11 There is none who understands; There is none who seeks after God. 12 They have all turned aside; They have together become unprofitable; There is none who does good, no, not one." 13 "Their throat is an open tomb; With their tongues they have practiced deceit"; "The poison of asps is under their lips"; 14 "Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness." 15 "Their feet are swift to shed blood; 16 Destruction and misery are in their ways; 17 And the way of peace they have not known." 18 "There is no fear of God before their eyes." 19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin. 21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. 27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law. 29 Or is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also, 30 since there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.
Someone can get saved by hearing the word of God without a Bible. But if you want to grow you will need to read the Bible and apply it to your life. So maybe you are both right to a degree. Your statement is true. My point was the message of Salvation is IN the Bible, but diva seems to miss that point I was making.
Diva words cannot describe how much I restrain myself from responding to your barbs and insults. However, I do read and study the Bible every day with diligent expository. Most of the disciples were practicing Jews, went to Synagogue and heard the Word read to them each Sabbath. That is how they recognized Christ when they heard His Words.
New Living Translation (©2007) His disciples didn't understand at the time that this was a fulfillment of prophecy. But after Jesus entered into his glory, they remembered what had happened and realized that these things had been written about him So- there is what you say- and what the word says. Diva I am sure since you are an ordained minister you know that you used a dynamic equivalent version (NIV) and a Free translation (paraphrase) version (NLT) to make your point. You should have started with either a literal translation like the KJV, NKJV or NASB and then go to the other translations.
lol. So passive agressive. Let's remember the truth about how you got here, to this site. You dish out far more offensive statements then you receive. Anyway- Where in the word does it tell you that the disciples were practicing Jews and what their daily/weekly habits were? I showed you where in the word it says the opposite of what you are "peddling". Go to the word. Show me. Don't tell me what your opinion is of what gary says, or what you have read by an idol of yours- or how you feel about what you have read. Tell me where it is in the word, what you claim.
Where in these verses does it state the disciples were not adhering to the Mosaic Law or never heard or read the OT? All that is stated here is that the disciples did not connect the Triumphal Entry with Zechariah 9:9: 9 "Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion! Shout, O daughter of Jerusalem! Behold, your King is coming to you; He is just and having salvation, Lowly and riding on a donkey, A colt, the foal of a donkey. (NKJV) The verse you provided makes no claim that the disciples were apostate Jews untrained on Scriptures. They would be apostate Jews if they did not adhere to Mosaic Law before Jesus' ministry. Let's put your line of logic to the test. The Bible does not tell us whether or not the disciples were all circumcised at birth. Does that mean they were not circumcised? So, the Bible does not tell us the disciples read the OT Scriptures, are we to assume it never happened. Your point is pure speculation and unfounded.
The word tells us that they were uneducated. You really need to read the Bible red, and stop taking gary's word for it. He has led you astray. If you would read carefully the passage you quoted, then you would see they do not say the disciples were uneducated, rather they did not understand the prophecies until after Jesus Christ entered glory. The Jews accused Jesus of being uneducated and never having studied. "The Jews therefore marveled, saying, “How is it that this man has learning, when he has never studied?” John 7:15 He was a Rabbi, and you don't get that title without having been trained. Jesus spoke and wrote at least 2 or 3 languages. His accusers were wrong. In Acts 4:13 the Jews saw John and Peter as uneducated, but John and Peter both wrote several books in the NT in Greek.
How do you reconcile the apparent differences of text within the two versions that hondo68 posted in #1 of this thread? Don't the two versions read differently? I go to the Greek and Hebrew texts, and I check the various manuscripts if there is a problem with the texts.
gary- when you address me in the future, understand that you are addressing an ordained minister. Okay? Now- you started this all with your attacks and gossip and stalking when I was giving a personal testimony, to a poster last year- and you have continued to attack personal testimony. Diva, I likewise have restrained myself from responding to you. I have been on LF for many years, and I did not follow you here. You initiated the attacks on LF, with your post #83 to Buckaroo. Likewise, you initiated attacks against me on LP, when I was witnessing to MrSpock. I never stated Christians are saved by historical evidence, rather the Christian faith is based on historical evidence. I have always maintained we are saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, and His shed blood.
Gary any suggestions for learning Greek and Hebrew for the layman?
Forget the Hebrew, but for your iPhone pick up the little koine Greek program, which will help memorizing the words. There is also a wonderful little Greek Hebrew Bible, which is also an inter linear. My Greek is rusty, and I'm using both programs.
gary you are not a well person at all, for numerous reasons. Lying is a big problem for you. I pray for you.
But, 50 days after Passover when Jesus was crucified. 3,000 were added to the church in one day. Acts 2:41 A few days later the number of believers totaled 5,000 men, not counting women and children.Acts 4:4. The early church was almost entirely Jewish. The Gospel didn't even go to the Gentiles until approximately two years later. "Now, it has sometimes been suggested that Jesus, himself, or maybe even John the Baptist, were members of this group. And that can't be proven at all.". http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/portrait/essenes.html I have been to Qumran, and can tell you the community would have been very small. I would be shocked if 100 lived there, and if the truth were known it was likely less than 50...at most.
I am not interested in arguing with you. Your doctrines are heretical, clearly Gnostic, and not worth discussing.
You are not interested in arguing- you are interested in trying to make me stop talking about my POV. Typical religious man. That is why, in the Bible, Jesus rebukes the religious men. Of course my beliefs are heresy to you gary and your religion. I am proudly open minded and interested in learning the true ways of Jesus. Jesus himself is a heretic - to you and your way. I have seen healing miracles in people's lives- so I know what I know. I have my proof that faith in Jesus produces all the promises of the Bible- in my own life and in other people. You have no proof of anything. I have seen fruit in the people in every denomination, in the people who truly follow Jesus the Christ and hear him as their Shephard. Your close minded religion doesn't interest me and it didn't interest Jesus, because it proudces no joy in the world- it heals no one- and the people who practice your religion show no fruit, or tangible blessings in your lives. Jesus saves and religion kills. You and I do not know the same God. You can have yours. And you are not interested in discussing things, that is true. You are interesting in death, and dominance, lying and attacking other people's peace. Darkness does that to it's followers. I am praying for you. You have totally missed the mark of what Jesus was teaching. It is so sad.
+1
Obama's watch stopped on 24 May 2008, but he's been too busy smoking crack to notice.
Yet- y'all can not stop following me around and reading and commenting about what I say. Strange, that. :) I am the only one who ever discusses the Bible. Irony is so ironic that YOU- who doesn't understand the Bible- calls ME a heretic. Then again- The revolution in religion says that Jesus is a heretic. Jesus was a rebel against the religious- NOT the government. (There is that old delicious irony again, eh?) I am in excellent company. Praise God. "You will keep on hearing, but you will not understand; And you will keep on seeing, but will not perceive." (Matthew 13:10,11,13,14)
ME a heretic Get thee behind me satan. You might as well quit stalking me, I'm not converting to your cult.
Obama's watch stopped on 24 May 2008, but he's been too busy smoking crack to notice.
You are a very odd person. You keep following me around for a reason. Try to learn something ok: Since I am the one who is always talking about how much I love Jesus and the Bible- it is illogical that I would have anything to do with Satan. Jesus himself was accused of being a demon, by the religious people, and he talked about a house divided. Go and read Matthew 3:25 ish.. ok? It would be very helpful to you, no doubt, if you would actually read the Bible and try to understand it. You would not have these irrational beliefs, if you did. God be with you.. and if hearing about my ideas is so upsetting to you-you might want to stop following around and reading everything I post. Praying for you, hondo. Blessed be the name of the Lord, Jesus.
Not saying you aren't. But that isn't an accurate statement. Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven
Actually, you would have to go deeper into: Mark 9:39 But Jesus said, “Do not stop him, for no one who does a mighty work in my name will be able soon afterward to speak evil of me I do believe it is true that not all people who pray out asking for God's help will enter Heaven. Asking for a blessing from God is not surrender or inviting God into our lives. The people who obey God and do His will, have a relationship and go to Heaven.
If one says there was no Trinity prior to the Incarnation, then they are denying Jesus is God, and therefore a heretic. Christ is God, hence eternal.
Eternal means without beginning and without end.
Someone can have a couple of dozen bibles and read them frequently, but if they don't accept the divinity of Christ, I have a tough time taking them seriously as a Christian. Anyway, enough of he witch hunts for me, we know who they are.
Obama's watch stopped on 24 May 2008, but he's been too busy smoking crack to notice.
Then again, gary you will stalk and harass people who say no such thing- and hang that accusation around their neck- because they refuse to worship YOU. You want things specifically and perfectly defined in the same exact words you, yourself, use.. or you call that person a witch and a heretic. But your ideas are wrong and it is obvious to anyone who knows the character of God- so you leave no choice for people. That is exactly what happened to me, with you. How many others have you lied about? You are a very wicked person with your accusations and lies. You speak death and evilness. I pray for the people you have harmed and abused. So , so sad. Jesus is the Lord, God.. not you gary. In the book of Genesis it says that the Trinity existed at the foundation. You have zero authority to define anything.
Yes- however, when a minster is attempting to explain the trinity to a non- believer, and that minister explains that Jesus is God in a human body- and was born from a human- THAT is NOT someone who MUST be an evil witch. THAT is not denying that Jesus was God, and it is not even close to the insanity you have shown in your repeated attempts to discredit my POV. You are a sick, sick man- gary. Very sick. God have mercy on you, because you are so far from Christ like. How many people have you abused because they did not speak your insane language? I know you abused your aunt- for forming her own ideas about the Holy Spirit... how many children have you hurt and turned away from God? I bet plenty. Your ideas are not only wrong and not Biblical- you are a stalker. You have no sense of boundaries.
“One who refuses truth cannot be refuted or healed with truth or its prophet, reason. There is in him no sense of obligation, even to truth, and therefore no obligation to anything.” --Peter Kreeft
Excellent quote. This from Francis Schaeffer: "It is an important principle to remember, in the contemporary interest in communication and in language study, that the biblical presentation is that though we do not have exhaustive truth, we have from the Bible what I term true truth. In this way we know true truth about God, true truth about man, and something truly about nature. Thus on the basis of the Scriptures, while we do not have exhaustive knowledge, we have true and unified knowledge." (Francis A. Schaeffer, Escape From Reason, Ch. 2)
red- Are you and gary gay lovers? That would explain many unanswered questions, like why you rush in to defend him when he gets his backside handed to him for being evil.
Colossians 2:8 (King James Version) Colossians 2:8 King James Version (KJV) 8Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ A professor of philosophy? PFT.. gary you have so many human idols it is hard to keep up with you. People who love worldy knowledge and men, over God and the Bible, do not know the character of God or the Bible. The word is very clear about worldly knowledge. You seem to be addicted to the world of what men think. Weird - that.
In the ancient Hebrew words that are used to described distance and direction are also used to describe time. The Hebrew word for east is qedem and literally means “the direction of the rising sun” Your definitions are wrong and out of syncs with the character of God. Not in the Bible, it doesn't mean without beginning and without end. You make grave errors when you try to define God and His creations- with your worldly male idols. You worship males, gary. Your ego has you led by the nose. Jeremiah 32:40 >> New International Version (©1984) I will make an everlasting covenant with them: I will never stop doing good to them, and I will inspire them to fear me, so that they will never turn away from me. God says , I WILL make. That means it is new to them- and has not always been so. What a twisted and sick man you are. You are hardly an expert on the word of God. You don't even understand the word eternal.
40And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.
:) Yes. Praise God. Stone- God makes good on all His promises. That is the good news. He does not turn away from us. And the good news is that God really does want everyone to see how to enter through HIS gate. Not man's gate- but God's gate, into paradise.
How is his definition of eternity wrong? Post 329. How is that out of character with God. It simply means he always was and always will be. Is there something I'm missing. If so I don't see it.
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#302. To: diva betsy ross, Garyspfc (#300)
New International Version
#303. To: diva betsy ross (#301)
It is hard to tell you two apart, since you work in a tag team. But anyway, you may believe that the fishermen knew the OT and were theology students, however that is not true.
#304. To: diva betsy ross (#298)
gary disagrees with me that 1) people do not find God after hearing people's testimony- so no one should give their testimony. 2) only highly educated theologians and ordained ministers should be allowed to speak, and God only saves certain people.
#305. To: GarySpFC (#304)
(Edited)
#306. To: buckeroo (#289)
That is a pretty cool graphic for quick synthesis, although it simplifies issues for me. But your following point intrigues me:
#307. To: A K A Stone (#287)
The old Testament was read by them.
#308. To: diva betsy ross (#301)
The word tells us that they were uneducated. You really need to read the Bible red, and stop taking gary's word for it.
#309. To: diva betsy ross, A K A Stone (#301)
New International Version (©1984) At first his disciples did not understand all this. Only after Jesus was glorified did they realize that these things had been written about him and that they had done these things to him.
#310. To: redleghunter (#308)
(Edited)
#311. To: diva betsy ross (#310)
12 The next day a great multitude that had come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem, 13 took branches of palm trees and went out to meet Him, and cried out: "Hosanna! 'Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!' The King of Israel!" 14 Then Jesus, when He had found a young donkey, sat on it; as it is written: 15 "Fear not, daughter of Zion; Behold, your King is coming, Sitting on a donkey's colt." 16 His disciples did not understand these things at first; but when Jesus was glorified, then they remembered that these things were written about Him and that they had done these things to Him. 17 Therefore the people, who were with Him when He called Lazarus out of his tomb and raised him from the dead, bore witness. 18 For this reason the people also met Him, because they heard that He had done this sign. (John chapter 12 NKJV)
#312. To: diva betsy ross, redleghunter (#301)
(Edited)
But anyway, you may believe that the fishermen knew the OT and were theology students, however that is not true.
#313. To: buckeroo (#71)
I generally read the ESV, NIV, NLT, NASB1995, and the KJV for English translations This is good news!
#314. To: diva betsy ross (#305)
#315. To: GarySpFC, buckeroo (#313)
I go to the Greek and Hebrew texts, and I check the various manuscripts if there is a problem with the texts.
#316. To: redleghunter (#315)
#317. To: GarySpFC (#314)
#318. To: diva betsy ross (#317)
#319. To: buckeroo (#289)
by NOT ringing any bells. The Jews do not accept Jesus of Nazareth as the Messiah; if any group would have accepted him FIRST, it should have been these folks from Palestine, Galilee and Judea and Babylon (etc). Why do you suppose the JEWS largely discredit Jesus of Nazareth as the Messiah? And don't discuss "Jews for Jesus!" that group is not representative of the Pharisees.
#320. To: diva betsy ross (#317)
#321. To: GarySpFC (#320)
(Edited)
#322. To: GarySpFC, A K A Stone, diva betsy ross (#320)
Your doctrines are heretical, clearly Gnostic, and not worth discussing.
"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul
#323. To: hondo68 (#322)
#324. To: diva betsy ross (#323)
Jesus is a heretic
"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul
#325. To: hondo68 (#324)
(Edited)
#326. To: diva betsy ross (#325)
Since I am the one who is always talking about how much I love Jesus and the Bible- it is illogical that I would have anything to do with Satan.
#327. To: A K A Stone (#326)
#328. To: hondo68, A K A Stone (#324)
(Edited)
#329. To: All (#328)
#330. To: GarySpFC (#328)
they are denying Jesus is God, and therefore a heretic.
"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul
#331. To: GarySpFC (#328)
(Edited)
#332. To: GarySpFC (#329)
#333. To: All (#330)
#334. To: GarySpFC (#333)
“One who refuses truth cannot be refuted or healed with truth or its prophet, reason. There is in him no sense of obligation, even to truth, and therefore no obligation to anything.” --Peter Kreeft
#335. To: diva betsy ross (#331)
#336. To: redleghunter (#335)
#337. To: GarySpFC (#333)
(Edited)
-Peter Kreeft?
#338. To: GarySpFC (#329)
(Edited)
Ancient Hebrew Word Meanings Eternity ~ olam
#339. To: diva betsy ross (#338)
#340. To: A K A Stone (#339)
(Edited)
#341. To: diva betsy ross (#338)
Your definitions are wrong and out of syncs with the character of God.
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