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Title: What Version of the Christian Holy Bible Do You read?
Source:
LF
URL Source: http://hereandnow
Published: Feb 18, 2012
Author: buckeroo
Post Date: 2012-02-18 17:52:56 by buckeroo
Keywords: None
Views: 272757
Comments: 449
Assuming you have a Christian Holy Bible of one flavor or another, what version do you read? As several examples, here are several variations: the New King James Version, New Living Translation, New International Version, New Revised Standard Version and so forth. Post your comment on this thread.
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#283. To: A K A Stone (#279)
Post #268: Diva: "No one needs to understand or accept the Bible, to seek God. Faith comes from wanting to know the truth and seeking God."
Stone- this discussion , between the three of us started over a year ago at LP. I left them to have their fun over at LP, and showed up here to talk to buck- and they followed. AND I know that they don't have any answered prayer because, do you ever hear them ever talking about their personal testimony? They think I am a witch, because I have answered prayer. What does that tell you? That is what alerted gary to start calling me a witch, when a poster at LP was asking me about my faith, and I was responding to them about why I beleive my faith has led me to answered prayer. Do you ever hear them talk about how God moves in their lives? How I know is this has been going on for over a year- and I have never heard them say a word about anything the Lord has done for them.. only what theology they have learned. Fruit? Do you see the fruit of spirit in them? Go back and look at the posts between us over the last year at LP. They showed up here to continue what I left behind over there. Go look for yourself. That's how.
I never said I was a perfect Christian, that is your insecurity talking. In fact I say the opposite- but self loathing is more comfortable to many people, so they get angry when someone tries to free people, who are addicted to that yuckiness. If you could try to pay attention, my message is that everyone is entitled and worthy to calling upon Jesus. I encourage people, no matter their sin- to seek God. I even pray that people receive the same exact blessings I have gotten. But ,anger and bitterness is a comfortable friend for many people. And I think it could be y'all just like to argue and that is why you stalk people around. But it is a great lesson for me on how a certain group of people react when anyone starts talking about the gospel of Jesus. You will notice people get very stirred up. That is perfectly how Satan wants it. People start acting all out of their ego. Just like back in the day. Even "Christians" start staling and ganging up on people. It is fascinating to see it unfold.
lol-you make my point. Did the fishermen study the Bible? In the Scriptures there are people who did not read the Bible, who sought God and were blessed. Cutting and pasting a post, from LP, out of context is all you have red? And then you use to make my own point back to me?? lol.. falls down laughing. You are hilarious. On the topic of theology. One does not need to be an expert on the Bible, to seek God. Altho I love the Bible and I am the one in fact, who actually reads it (because up thread you admit you have not even read the Old Testament).... It is not something that is necessary in seeking God. A prostitute and a tax collector will get into Heaven before a religious man. SO says the Lord. Matthew 21:31 Don't be mad a me- I didn't write it.
The old Testament was read by them. Someone can get saved by hearing the word of God without a Bible. But if you want to grow you will need to read the Bible and apply it to your life. So maybe you are both right to a degree.
You created an excellent dialog/understanding in post #232 but strangely concluded: In post #245 I indicated some confusion and asked: And then you state, in post#252: The relevence is exceptionally important to me. Especially, from two different sources, 1) Flavius Josephus and 2) the Dead Sea Scrolls because there seems to be immense, colorboating documented data about the Essenes which reflects upon John the Baptist and Jesus of Nazareth in the way they taught prophesies and lived a strict code of ascetic Judaism. You go onto state in post#252: That is NOT true as the the DSS shows how the Essenes lived in Qumran (desert and farmland or rural communities) and in the various populated cities (urban communities) prior to Jesus of Nazareth and upto the destruction of Jerusalem, circa ~70 CE . Where did you come by that data?
That is a pretty cool graphic for quick synthesis, although it simplifies issues for me. But your following point intrigues me: by NOT ringing any bells. The Jews do not accept Jesus of Nazareth as the Messiah; if any group would have accepted him FIRST, it should have been these folks from Palestine, Galilee and Judea and Babylon (etc). Why do you suppose the JEWS largely discredit Jesus of Nazareth as the Messiah? And don't discuss "Jews for Jesus!" that group is not representative of the Pharisees.
"The distinctive feature of faith, in contrast with mere belief, is the element in it of will to action. Belief is an act of the intellect, and faith has been described as “an act of the intellect commanded by the will.” But faith is more than an act of the intellect, and the will does more than command. Faith is not merely the assent that something is true, it is our readiness to act on what we believe true. Faith is will lured by value into action. Faith is decision (1955, p. 74). See Samuel Thompson’s, A Modern Philosophy of Religion, 1955, p. 44 for this kind of reasoning. The clearest example of both elements of faith in the same context is Hebrews 11. Verse 6 says, “he that cometh to God must believe that he is...” (emp. added). Beginning with verse 7, the writer observed that a number of notable Old Testament characters trusted in that about which they believed. They acted on their belief. Note the words indicating action—e.g., “prepared” (vs. 7) and “obeyed” (vs. 8). To me, that is a fine line of differentiation upon a simple question that was asked: So, it is an interesting remarck and requires testability. As an example: What holds the Jews together? Rhetorically, it is the Jewish "covenant with God or as they say, YHVH, YHWH and others." What is the Jewish covenant that creates this almost universal idea: "the Jews are the Chosen People"? More rhetoric is assured here: their bloodline from generation to generation for the nation of Israel. But Jews don't necessarily believe in a supreme creator (call the creator any noun you choose) or for that matter, most if not some 98% of all Jews reject jesus of Nazareth. So, please provide some empirical data to reflect on that which you state. Thanks in advance.
Cutting and pasting a post, from LP, out of context is all you have red? And then you use to make my own point back to me?? I did not cut and paste a post from LP. Pay attention that was a different poster. No, the fishermen did not read the NT...the WROTE it under God's divine inspiration. They did know the OT pretty well.
Anything further [based on a Bible] would be an opinion or speculation. In post #245 I indicated some confusion and asked: I am not sure what you suggest is true. Have you read the Dead Sea Scrolls, as one example? And then you state, in post#252: What relevance are the DSS to the subject of your questions? The relevence is exceptionally important to me. Especially, from two different sources, 1) Flavius Josephus and 2) the Dead Sea Scrolls because there seems to be immense, colorboating documented data about the Essenes which reflects upon John the Baptist and Jesus of Nazareth in the way they taught prophesies and lived a strict code of ascetic Judaism. You go onto state in post#252: There were no new "revelations" or any contradictions in [the DSS with respect to the OT]. That is NOT true as the the DSS shows how the Essenes lived in Qumran (desert and farmland or rural communities) and in the various populated cities (urban communities) prior to Jesus of Nazareth and upto the destruction of Jerusalem, circa ~70 CE . Where did you come by that data? Thanks for responding Buckeroo. The ending in 232 was an indication there is a lot of speculation about the years of Jesus not recorded in the Gospels. I stick to the Bible. You make a connection to John the Baptist and Jesus Christ and the Essenes. That connection is speculation. The DSS don't tell us John the Baptist or Jesus Christ were affiliated with the Essenes. There is nothing indicated in the Bible to come to that conclusion. What I meant by revelation is God's revelation to man through the OT and NT, the Bible. So please elaborate on the DSS connection you see. Thanks Thanks
.. explains our need for a Savior by NOT ringing any bells. The Jews do not accept Jesus of Nazareth as the Messiah; if any group would have accepted him FIRST, it should have been these folks from Palestine, Galilee and Judea and Babylon (etc). Why do you suppose the JEWS largely discredit Jesus of Nazareth as the Messiah? And don't discuss "Jews for Jesus!" that group is not representative of the Pharisees. Excellent questions and some of the best I have heard in quite some time. If you will excuse me for a few hours, I will offer you some feedback/answers. Gotta get some Z's, these 18-20 hour days are a hoot this week. Been wrapped up in a simulation exercise.
Please perform your personal and professional duties before responding to mere posts upon the Internet within a chit-chat channel. I also have been working around the clock and don't find much time to be posting, hence my oft delays for response. Your replies are more than welcome, here on LF and certainly by a number of other posters. And, I encourage you to consider serious questions/investigations into the Christian Bible and add as you have capability. Thanks in advance.
I understand, now, and fully agree. I have heard wild speculation that Jesus of Nazareth went to Tibet, India, Britain, blah, blah blah. I see NO supporting documentation that substantiates FACTS other than misunderstood interpretations of his name. Without any evidence, I don't read or care much about the speculation, either. Still, there is a myth that I used to misunderstand. You shall not find my opinion worth much, but I want to give "the ol' college try" in brief form. It is well known that Jesus wore a beard and very long hair and wore a white cloth as a garment to cover his body. I used to think, "no-one knows this sort of stuff as an absolute fact." Yet, this is exactly how the Essenes lived! The Pharisees and Sadducees did not live this way at all. It is an important connection from a historical point of view outside the Bible within the context of relatively new collaborative understanding about the life and time of Jesus of Nazareth. I am fascinated with these historical details. It is a convincing data point (at least to me) that is far from "faith" and so forth. Frankly, I am studying the material at such a phenomenal rate that my wife has suggested that I am becoming "weird."
This isn't a mere chit chat channel. This is Libertysflame.com. ;)
Are you sure Jesus had long hair? Remember Jhoffa_. He showed me something about that years ago.
actually stone, the word itself tells us that the disciples did not know about the prophecies, and were uneducated. Acts 4:13 13 Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were uneducated, common men, they were astonished. And they recognized that they had been with Jesus The only POV I ever give is that God is gracious and shows mercy to those who call upon him. gary disagrees with me that 1) people do not find God after hearing people's testimony- so no one should give their testimony. 2) only highly educated theologians and ordained ministers should be allowed to speak, and God only saves certain people. I disagree. Both the historical evidence and the word of God say otherwise. It is quite clear to anyone who takes the time to look. In the meantime, it is absolutely true that God will save someone who has no understanding of the Bible, and I am living proof. I have a better understanding of the word than gary and red put together- and it was gifted to me because of my faith. I only understood the Bible after I was baptized. That makes gary angry- because he went to school to try and understand, what was given to me as a free gift. My story is to encourage others to ask questions and seek, and have faith that they can be blessed - just like me. One does not need to understand the Bible to be gifted and to be blessed. Faith comes before every good thing in the Bible. That is in the word and there is proof that Jesus is not giving us a Bible quiz. For personal growth, and deeper understanding and more complex gifts- we do need to study our Bible. I love the Bible. I study it every day- sometimes all day long. To be saved- it is in the word, just call on the name of the Lord. Romans 10:13- Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. That is in all the translations, btw. I believe that is true. :)
That is true. You have to pray and accept Christ. Also God doesn't hear all prayers. That is in the Bible too.
Being saved- and receiving blessings are two different things. A person can be saved by the grace of God - and blessed, with answered prayer, according to their faith. God won't answer the prayers of people who have not shown faith in him, but he does answer all prayers made by those who are faithful. Ezekiel 7:22 >> New International Version (©1984) I will turn my face away from them, and they will desecrate my treasured place; robbers will enter it and desecrate it. The word says that God will only turn away from people who have shown no faith! Ah hah! Once we call upon the Lord, and are saved- we are His child- his lamb, and he will not turn away from us, even IF we are imperfect and sin. Once we are redeemed, we are His. God can not turn away from anyone He has saved, because the word says that he is constant-never changing-compassionate and full of grace and mercy for His children. That is the goodnews. Sometimes the answer, to our requests, is not what we want to hear and some people say that is a prayer unanswered- but that is not true, every prayer-by the faithful- will be answered. And yes true, God does not hear the prayers of the unfaithful and God gifts according to our faith, and not our good works. Want more gifts? Show more faith. :) Romans 12:6 King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.) Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith; I also try to encourage people that showing more faith is something that they CAN do. They can establish more faith- and receive more blessings- and healing and all the good stuff. I say it is easy- and one does not need to be a student of the Bible to show faith and get blessed. I want to encourage everyone- where they are- today- to get more blessings. That is not so popular. :)
It is hard to tell you two apart, since you work in a tag team. But anyway, you may believe that the fishermen knew the OT and were theology students, however that is not true. The word tells us that they were uneducated. You really need to read the Bible red, and stop taking gary's word for it. He has led you astray. The 12 disciples represent all different walks of life. The word says that they did NOT know of the prophecies... meaning they were not educated in theology- because THAT was the entire theology at the time. The OT is the word of God from the prophets- THAT a savior was on His way. John 12:16 >> New International Version (©1984) At first his disciples did not understand all this. Only after Jesus was glorified did they realize that these things had been written about him and that they had done these things to him. New Living Translation (©2007) His disciples didn't understand at the time that this was a fulfillment of prophecy. But after Jesus entered into his glory, they remembered what had happened and realized that these things had been written about him So- there is what you say- and what the word says.
Here is Matt 5:22 in the KJV: Matthew 5:22 (KJV) "But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire." Here is how the NIV puts it. 22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister[b][c] will be subject to judgment. Jesus got angry, is and is subject to judgement according to the NIV. That is the way it appears to me. So if I am correct how many other errors are in the NIV?
Jesus taught them the scriptures from the Old Testament.
I disagree. Both the historical evidence and the word of God say otherwise. It is quite clear to anyone who takes the time to look. Diva, your statements regarding me are blatantly false. I have always stated the Christian faith is based on the historical evidence of the Christ of the Bible. I believe it is the duty of "every" Christian to give an account of how they came to a saving faith in Christ. The focus of a Christian's testimony is Jesus Christ, NOT ME. IT'S NOT ALL ABOUT ME, ME, ME, ME, ME, ME, ME, ME!
OBAMA HAS SPENT MORE MONEY THAN ANY OTHER PERSON IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND.
gary- when you address me in the future, understand that you are addressing an ordained minister. Okay? Now- you started this all with your attacks and gossip and stalking when I was giving a personal testimony, to a poster last year- and you have continued to attack personal testimony. The Bible is clear about where faith comes from. You can believe that people ONLY come to faith by the historical evidence. That may be for some people- but that is NOT for all people- and nothing you can say will prove otherwise. You beleive there is one way- and you know the one way and nothing you say comes from faith or understanding. It comes from what you have been told, by another human being. That is idolatry. That is a sin. And you know it. You chase people away- who come to faith by hearing, and that is so demonic. You use your status to cause people to doubt their faith by hearing, and that is why you are a useful tool for Satan. Not everyone HAS to be into theology. That is many times, a call from God- because He has gifted wisdom. Reading the Bible and teaching the Bible are not the same thing. The only ONE WAY- is Jesus, and everyone born is entitled seek after Him and expect to be addressed by God himself. You do not have the one way. In fact- you do not represent the word of God. You represent the word of gary ,and that is where we are always divided. You call me a witch and evil and get others to rally to your cause- because I don't bow to you. That is called ego. No one has to bow to any of us- they are only to bow to God. You point the way to you, with your personal narrow understanding. That is not how God works. We are gifted according to faith. YOU are the one who makes it about YOU YOU YOU. You have been gifted according to your faith. You need to step it up if you find yourself being jealous. And do not shut the doors to others, because you, yourself- do not want to surrender. Romans 10:17 >> New International Version (©1984) Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ. New Living Translation (©2007) So faith comes from hearing, that is, hearing the Good News about Christ You are very clearly wrong- and you should not put a heavy yoke on people, that their faith in Jesus MUST come from embracing historical evidence. The historical evidence is not 100% conclusive. I like data, history, logic and I did not come to my faith by any of that. Don't mislead people. Nothing is 100%. If the historical evidence speaks to someone- great. If not- that is ok too.
.. explains our need for a Savior by NOT ringing any bells. The Jews do not accept Jesus of Nazareth as the Messiah; if any group would have accepted him FIRST, it should have been these folks from Palestine, Galilee and Judea and Babylon (etc). Why do you suppose the JEWS largely discredit Jesus of Nazareth as the Messiah? And don't discuss "Jews for Jesus!" that group is not representative of the Pharisees. I am assuming there are two questions above. One is why we need a Savior and the other was why did the Jews reject Jesus Christ. If I am in error of defining your questions please let me know. I will start with the Israelite rejection of Jesus Christ. In the OT Isaiah reports the following in Chapter 53: www.biblestudytools.co m/nkjv/isaiah/53.html Here are some other OT references predicting that the Messiah would be rejected by His own people: "He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not." (Isaiah 53:3) "Thus saith the LORD, the Redeemer of Israel, and his Holy One, to him whom man despiseth, to him whom the nation abhorreth ..." (Isaiah 49:7) "I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair: I hid not my face from shame and spitting." (Isaiah 50:6) "Thou hast known my reproach, and my shame, and my dishonour: mine adversaries are all before thee. Reproach hath broken my heart: and I am full of heaviness: and I looked for some to take pity, but there was none; and for comforters, but I found none." (Psalm 69:19,20) Now for the Jews of Jesus' time, it is clear they were looking for a political/military leader to throw the Romans out of Israel and set up an eternal Kingdom. Jesus in the Gospels offered the Kingdom of God (in Matthew called the Kingdom of Heaven) to His people Israel. However, the Kingdom of God presented by Jesus Christ was on His terms, His Will. The Jews, especially the religious leaders, rejected the Kingdom presented by Christ. So in summary, the Jews wanted an earthly King who would defeat Rome and the Herod's. Also, when the Jewish religious leaders saw how the miracles and sermons of Jesus were turning hearts to God, they became jealous and wanted Him dead. Finally, I should note that the early Christian church was predominately Jewish. The second point "explains our need for a Savior." You probably have read Romans several times, but may I suggest reading chapters 1-10 again with your question in mind? Here is a good link to the book of Romans: www.biblestudytools.com/nkjv/ romans/ Below are key points from Romans Chapter 3: 9 What then? Are we better than they? Not at all. For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin. 10 As it is written: "There is none righteous, no, not one; 11 There is none who understands; There is none who seeks after God. 12 They have all turned aside; They have together become unprofitable; There is none who does good, no, not one." 13 "Their throat is an open tomb; With their tongues they have practiced deceit"; "The poison of asps is under their lips"; 14 "Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness." 15 "Their feet are swift to shed blood; 16 Destruction and misery are in their ways; 17 And the way of peace they have not known." 18 "There is no fear of God before their eyes." 19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin. 21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. 27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law. 29 Or is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also, 30 since there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.
Someone can get saved by hearing the word of God without a Bible. But if you want to grow you will need to read the Bible and apply it to your life. So maybe you are both right to a degree. Your statement is true. My point was the message of Salvation is IN the Bible, but diva seems to miss that point I was making.
Diva words cannot describe how much I restrain myself from responding to your barbs and insults. However, I do read and study the Bible every day with diligent expository. Most of the disciples were practicing Jews, went to Synagogue and heard the Word read to them each Sabbath. That is how they recognized Christ when they heard His Words.
New Living Translation (©2007) His disciples didn't understand at the time that this was a fulfillment of prophecy. But after Jesus entered into his glory, they remembered what had happened and realized that these things had been written about him So- there is what you say- and what the word says. Diva I am sure since you are an ordained minister you know that you used a dynamic equivalent version (NIV) and a Free translation (paraphrase) version (NLT) to make your point. You should have started with either a literal translation like the KJV, NKJV or NASB and then go to the other translations.
lol. So passive agressive. Let's remember the truth about how you got here, to this site. You dish out far more offensive statements then you receive. Anyway- Where in the word does it tell you that the disciples were practicing Jews and what their daily/weekly habits were? I showed you where in the word it says the opposite of what you are "peddling". Go to the word. Show me. Don't tell me what your opinion is of what gary says, or what you have read by an idol of yours- or how you feel about what you have read. Tell me where it is in the word, what you claim.
Where in these verses does it state the disciples were not adhering to the Mosaic Law or never heard or read the OT? All that is stated here is that the disciples did not connect the Triumphal Entry with Zechariah 9:9: 9 "Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion! Shout, O daughter of Jerusalem! Behold, your King is coming to you; He is just and having salvation, Lowly and riding on a donkey, A colt, the foal of a donkey. (NKJV) The verse you provided makes no claim that the disciples were apostate Jews untrained on Scriptures. They would be apostate Jews if they did not adhere to Mosaic Law before Jesus' ministry. Let's put your line of logic to the test. The Bible does not tell us whether or not the disciples were all circumcised at birth. Does that mean they were not circumcised? So, the Bible does not tell us the disciples read the OT Scriptures, are we to assume it never happened. Your point is pure speculation and unfounded.
The word tells us that they were uneducated. You really need to read the Bible red, and stop taking gary's word for it. He has led you astray. If you would read carefully the passage you quoted, then you would see they do not say the disciples were uneducated, rather they did not understand the prophecies until after Jesus Christ entered glory. The Jews accused Jesus of being uneducated and never having studied. "The Jews therefore marveled, saying, “How is it that this man has learning, when he has never studied?” John 7:15 He was a Rabbi, and you don't get that title without having been trained. Jesus spoke and wrote at least 2 or 3 languages. His accusers were wrong. In Acts 4:13 the Jews saw John and Peter as uneducated, but John and Peter both wrote several books in the NT in Greek.
How do you reconcile the apparent differences of text within the two versions that hondo68 posted in #1 of this thread? Don't the two versions read differently? I go to the Greek and Hebrew texts, and I check the various manuscripts if there is a problem with the texts.
gary- when you address me in the future, understand that you are addressing an ordained minister. Okay? Now- you started this all with your attacks and gossip and stalking when I was giving a personal testimony, to a poster last year- and you have continued to attack personal testimony. Diva, I likewise have restrained myself from responding to you. I have been on LF for many years, and I did not follow you here. You initiated the attacks on LF, with your post #83 to Buckaroo. Likewise, you initiated attacks against me on LP, when I was witnessing to MrSpock. I never stated Christians are saved by historical evidence, rather the Christian faith is based on historical evidence. I have always maintained we are saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, and His shed blood.
Gary any suggestions for learning Greek and Hebrew for the layman?
Forget the Hebrew, but for your iPhone pick up the little koine Greek program, which will help memorizing the words. There is also a wonderful little Greek Hebrew Bible, which is also an inter linear. My Greek is rusty, and I'm using both programs.
gary you are not a well person at all, for numerous reasons. Lying is a big problem for you. I pray for you.
But, 50 days after Passover when Jesus was crucified. 3,000 were added to the church in one day. Acts 2:41 A few days later the number of believers totaled 5,000 men, not counting women and children.Acts 4:4. The early church was almost entirely Jewish. The Gospel didn't even go to the Gentiles until approximately two years later. "Now, it has sometimes been suggested that Jesus, himself, or maybe even John the Baptist, were members of this group. And that can't be proven at all.". http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/portrait/essenes.html I have been to Qumran, and can tell you the community would have been very small. I would be shocked if 100 lived there, and if the truth were known it was likely less than 50...at most.
I am not interested in arguing with you. Your doctrines are heretical, clearly Gnostic, and not worth discussing.
You are not interested in arguing- you are interested in trying to make me stop talking about my POV. Typical religious man. That is why, in the Bible, Jesus rebukes the religious men. Of course my beliefs are heresy to you gary and your religion. I am proudly open minded and interested in learning the true ways of Jesus. Jesus himself is a heretic - to you and your way. I have seen healing miracles in people's lives- so I know what I know. I have my proof that faith in Jesus produces all the promises of the Bible- in my own life and in other people. You have no proof of anything. I have seen fruit in the people in every denomination, in the people who truly follow Jesus the Christ and hear him as their Shephard. Your close minded religion doesn't interest me and it didn't interest Jesus, because it proudces no joy in the world- it heals no one- and the people who practice your religion show no fruit, or tangible blessings in your lives. Jesus saves and religion kills. You and I do not know the same God. You can have yours. And you are not interested in discussing things, that is true. You are interesting in death, and dominance, lying and attacking other people's peace. Darkness does that to it's followers. I am praying for you. You have totally missed the mark of what Jesus was teaching. It is so sad.
+1
Obama's watch stopped on 24 May 2008, but he's been too busy smoking crack to notice.
Yet- y'all can not stop following me around and reading and commenting about what I say. Strange, that. :) I am the only one who ever discusses the Bible. Irony is so ironic that YOU- who doesn't understand the Bible- calls ME a heretic. Then again- The revolution in religion says that Jesus is a heretic. Jesus was a rebel against the religious- NOT the government. (There is that old delicious irony again, eh?) I am in excellent company. Praise God. "You will keep on hearing, but you will not understand; And you will keep on seeing, but will not perceive." (Matthew 13:10,11,13,14)
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#284. To: A K A Stone (#282)
(Edited)
#285. To: hondo68 (#280)
(Edited)
#286. To: redleghunter (#278)
#287. To: diva betsy ross, Garyspfc (#286)
Did the fishermen study the Bible? In the Scriptures there are people who did not read the Bible, who sought God and were blessed.
#288. To: redleghunter (#252)
Anything further [based on a Bible] would be an opinion or speculation.
I am not sure what you suggest is true. Have you read the Dead Sea Scrolls, as one example?
What relevance are the DSS to the subject of your questions?
There were no new "revelations" or any contradictions in [the DSS with respect to the OT].
#289. To: redleghunter (#254)
This version gets the point across in cartoon fashion:
.. explains our need for a Savior
#290. To: GarySpFC, Wood_Chopper (#257)
(Edited)
Faith and Believe are close but differ
What is the difference between belief and faith?
#291. To: diva betsy ross (#286)
lol-you make my point. Did the fishermen study the Bible? In the Scriptures there are people who did not read the Bible, who sought God and were blessed.
#292. To: buckeroo (#288)
You created an excellent dialog/understanding in post #232 but strangely concluded:
#293. To: buckeroo (#289)
That is a pretty cool graphic for quick synthesis, although it simplifies issues for me. But your following point intrigues me:
#294. To: redleghunter (#293)
If you will excuse me for a few hours, I will offer you some feedback/answers. Gotta get some Z's, these 18-20 hour days are a hoot this week. Been wrapped up in a simulation exercise.
#295. To: redleghunter (#292)
The ending in 232 was an indication there is a lot of speculation about the years of Jesus not recorded in the Gospels. I stick to the Bible.
#296. To: buckeroo (#294)
Please perform your personal and professional duties before responding to mere posts upon the Internet within a chit-chat channel
#297. To: buckeroo (#295)
It is well known that Jesus wore a beard and very long hair
#298. To: A K A Stone (#287)
#299. To: diva betsy ross (#298)
and God only saves certain people.
#300. To: A K A Stone (#299)
(Edited)
#301. To: redleghunter (#291)
#302. To: diva betsy ross, Garyspfc (#300)
New International Version
#303. To: diva betsy ross (#301)
It is hard to tell you two apart, since you work in a tag team. But anyway, you may believe that the fishermen knew the OT and were theology students, however that is not true.
#304. To: diva betsy ross (#298)
gary disagrees with me that 1) people do not find God after hearing people's testimony- so no one should give their testimony. 2) only highly educated theologians and ordained ministers should be allowed to speak, and God only saves certain people.
#305. To: GarySpFC (#304)
(Edited)
#306. To: buckeroo (#289)
That is a pretty cool graphic for quick synthesis, although it simplifies issues for me. But your following point intrigues me:
#307. To: A K A Stone (#287)
The old Testament was read by them.
#308. To: diva betsy ross (#301)
The word tells us that they were uneducated. You really need to read the Bible red, and stop taking gary's word for it.
#309. To: diva betsy ross, A K A Stone (#301)
New International Version (©1984) At first his disciples did not understand all this. Only after Jesus was glorified did they realize that these things had been written about him and that they had done these things to him.
#310. To: redleghunter (#308)
(Edited)
#311. To: diva betsy ross (#310)
12 The next day a great multitude that had come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem, 13 took branches of palm trees and went out to meet Him, and cried out: "Hosanna! 'Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!' The King of Israel!" 14 Then Jesus, when He had found a young donkey, sat on it; as it is written: 15 "Fear not, daughter of Zion; Behold, your King is coming, Sitting on a donkey's colt." 16 His disciples did not understand these things at first; but when Jesus was glorified, then they remembered that these things were written about Him and that they had done these things to Him. 17 Therefore the people, who were with Him when He called Lazarus out of his tomb and raised him from the dead, bore witness. 18 For this reason the people also met Him, because they heard that He had done this sign. (John chapter 12 NKJV)
#312. To: diva betsy ross, redleghunter (#301)
(Edited)
But anyway, you may believe that the fishermen knew the OT and were theology students, however that is not true.
#313. To: buckeroo (#71)
I generally read the ESV, NIV, NLT, NASB1995, and the KJV for English translations This is good news!
#314. To: diva betsy ross (#305)
#315. To: GarySpFC, buckeroo (#313)
I go to the Greek and Hebrew texts, and I check the various manuscripts if there is a problem with the texts.
#316. To: redleghunter (#315)
#317. To: GarySpFC (#314)
#318. To: diva betsy ross (#317)
#319. To: buckeroo (#289)
by NOT ringing any bells. The Jews do not accept Jesus of Nazareth as the Messiah; if any group would have accepted him FIRST, it should have been these folks from Palestine, Galilee and Judea and Babylon (etc). Why do you suppose the JEWS largely discredit Jesus of Nazareth as the Messiah? And don't discuss "Jews for Jesus!" that group is not representative of the Pharisees.
#320. To: diva betsy ross (#317)
#321. To: GarySpFC (#320)
(Edited)
#322. To: GarySpFC, A K A Stone, diva betsy ross (#320)
Your doctrines are heretical, clearly Gnostic, and not worth discussing.
"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul
#323. To: hondo68 (#322)
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