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Religion
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Title: Virginia Moves forward To Let Agencies Bar Gay Adoption
Source: AssociatedPress
URL Source: http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/201 ... b/09/us-virginia-gay-adoption/
Published: Feb 9, 2012
Author: staff writers
Post Date: 2012-02-09 18:23:09 by Murron
Keywords: None
Views: 29376
Comments: 87

Virginia Moves forward To Let Agencies Bar Gay Adoption

The Virginia state Senate passed legislation Thursday allowing private adoption agencies to deny placements that conflict with their religious or moral beliefs, including opposition to homosexuality.

The mostly party-line 22-18 vote virtually ensures the Republican-backed bill will become law. The House of Delegates has an identical version of the bill and Republican Gov. Bob McDonnell says he will sign it. Virginia would become just the second state with such a law, which supporters said was modeled after North Dakota's.

State Sen. Jeffrey McWaters, a Republican from Virginia Beach, said his "conscience clause" bill protects the religious rights of private child placement agencies, including dozens that contract with the state to provide foster care and adoption services.

"This is completely consistent with state and federal law," McWaters said. "It does not change who can or cannot adopt a child."

Sen. Adam Ebbin, D-Alexandria and the only openly gay member of the General Assembly, suggested all the talk about religious freedom is a smokescreen for discrimination against lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgendered people.

"It has always been about denying LGBT Virginians the right to form families, no matter what we say," Ebbin said.

He said the bill will endanger gay and bisexual children, who make up a disproportionate share of youths awaiting a home, by allowing agencies to place them with parents opposed to homosexuality.

"This does not uphold anyone's moral principles," Ebbin said. "It's morally wrong."

Sen. John Edwards, D-Roanoke, said agencies that contract with the state should not be allowed to discriminate.

"You have a right to exercise religion as you see fit, but you don't have a right to impose it on someone else using state dollars," he said.

Sen. Mark Herring, D-Loudoun, said the bill conflicts with the principle that the best interest of the child is paramount.

"Neither the interests of the placement agency nor their beliefs should stand in the way," he said.

The Family Foundation of Virginia, which lobbied for the legislation, lauded the Senate's action.

"The passage of conscience protection for private child placement agencies by a bipartisan majority in the Senate is a tremendous victory for religious liberty and for the thousands of children and families around Virginia that are served by these agencies," Victoria Cobb, the foundation's president, said in a written statement.

The Child Welfare League of America had sent a letter to senators earlier in the week urging them to reject the bill, saying it would just make it more difficult to place the approximately 1,300 Virginia children waiting for a home.

"These children have been through so much already," Christine James-Brown, president of the organization, wrote. "It is cruel to deny them a secure home with a qualified family that happens to differ from the religious or moral beliefs held by a particular agency."

If either the House or the Senate approves the other chamber's bill unchanged, it will go to the governor. If either chamber amends the bill _ which seems unlikely after the Senate rejected a string of amendments proposed by Democrats on Wednesday _ it could be sent to conference committee to resolve the differences.

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#1. To: Murron (#0)

Duh! That is just common sense.

A K A Stone  posted on  2012-02-09   18:24:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: A K A Stone (#1)

Duh! That is just common sense.

Somebody pee in your cheerios today?

Murron  posted on  2012-02-09   18:26:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Murron (#2)

I'm not criticizing you. I'm criticizing why we even need laws like this. It should be obvious. I support the law.

A K A Stone  posted on  2012-02-09   18:40:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: A K A Stone (#3)

I'm not criticizing you. I'm criticizing why we even need laws like this. It should be obvious. I support the law.

I pretty much knew that, but after reading some of your other posts, I was talking about your mood in general.

Murron  posted on  2012-02-09   18:42:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Murron (#0)

There will be a decline in the number of abortions since the woman is assured of adopted children going to a normal home.

Less dead babies, more happy childhoods. Yeah!


"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul

Obama's watch stopped on 24 May 2008, but he's been too busy smoking crack to notice.

Hondo68  posted on  2012-02-09   18:47:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Murron (#0)

It is wrong to deliberately place a child in a home lacking either male or female influences.

Also, male children should never be placed with lesbians - who uniformly take out their man-hate on them - or with gay males, who very often will raise them for the purpose of molestation.

thoughtomator  posted on  2012-02-09   18:51:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: thoughtomator (#6)

It is wrong to deliberately place a child in a home lacking either male or female influences.

Also, male children should never be placed with lesbians - who uniformly take out their man-hate on them - or with gay males, who very often will raise them for the purpose of molestation.

To deliberately, to knowingly, place a child in a situation where there is a strong possibility of that child being molested (or worse), is a CRIME!

Murron  posted on  2012-02-09   19:10:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Murron (#7)

not when it's done by government agent

thoughtomator  posted on  2012-02-09   20:03:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: thoughtomator (#6)

Also, male children should never be placed with lesbians - who uniformly take out their man-hate on them - or with gay males, who very often will raise them for the purpose of molestation.

Where the fuck do you come up with your drivel? Do you just make it up?

meguro  posted on  2012-02-10   2:20:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: meguro (#9)

It's called common sense and those who do not have homosexual mental problems and are not brainwashed by Marxism can see it as self-evident.

Giving children to homosexuals is offensive to Nature itself - which, it should be noted, gives no children to homosexuals.

thoughtomator  posted on  2012-02-10   2:42:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: thoughtomator (#10) (Edited)

It's called common sense

It's called homophobic drivel.

meguro  posted on  2012-02-12   5:33:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: thoughtomator (#10)

All people have children, and all people come in all range of grace, goodness or ability.

I know many gay men and women with children who do very well in life.

And their parent's gender preference doesn't influence their own.

As homosexuality is just another human trait, and is certainly no mere choice.

Your bigotry is pitiable, and an affliction that hurts you the most.

That is the bottom line.

Marriage has just become legal for all in Washington state, and will soon be legal all up and down the west coast.

As much of the marriages of heterosexual people fail with nary a word of concern or even advocacy to change that from people like you; it's not worry about the future of children or the state of marriage that drives you; it is the promotion of hate and wedge issues that enervates you.

You are to be pitied. I feel sorry for people like you.

Ferret Mike  posted on  2012-02-12   6:09:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: meguro (#11)

It's called homophobic drivel.

There is no such thing as a homophobe. It is just a word some insecure faggots made up to try and make themselves feel better.

You are two things though.

You are a normaphobe and a pussyphobe.

A K A Stone  posted on  2012-02-12   8:33:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: Ferret Mike (#12)

As homosexuality is just another human trait, and is certainly no mere choice.

You need to quit lying and using pedophile talking points. I'm serious cut it out.

A K A Stone  posted on  2012-02-12   8:34:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: Ferret Mike (#12)

That was one hell of a recitation of Marxist politically correct bullshit.

I'll tell you what, if I want to hear that kind of totally unsubstantiated bullshit, I'll turn on my TV, OK?

thoughtomator  posted on  2012-02-12   9:35:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: A K A Stone (#14)

Get rid of my position to merely satisfy the perversion of your irrational hatred?

Not a chance.

Ferret Mike  posted on  2012-02-12   12:29:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: thoughtomator (#15)

You can use the word Marxist as a one word cover all for anything you do not agree with.

But the research of the APA and many other entities that have done good, impartial research backs up my position well enough to make it impossible for bigotry to triumph in the end on this issue.

Your hatred and deep fear based on the worst sort of human ignorance is your problem, and it is something you need to work out before you can defeat this stumbling block of hatred and ignorance that prevents you from growing as a human being.

Ferret Mike  posted on  2012-02-12   12:34:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: A K A Stone (#13)

"There is no such thing as a homophobe."

Racism is built on irrational fear and ignorance whose worst manifestation is the desire to force others to surrender to the irrational fear and hatred blighting the soul and spirit of those suffering from it.

The same is true concerning the wedge issue of hatred and persecution of gay people. To be homophobic is nothing to be proud of, and speaks only of the worst part of anyone advocating such an irrational lynch mob attitude towrd others.

Ferret Mike  posted on  2012-02-12   12:38:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: Ferret Mike, *Liberal Rehab Staff* (#17)

can defeat this stumbling block of hatred and ignorance

Best wishes for a speedy recovery from your tree-hugging, human-hating, normalphobia.

You can lead a libtard to knowledge, but you can't make them think.


"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul

Obama's watch stopped on 24 May 2008, but he's been too busy smoking crack to notice.

Hondo68  posted on  2012-02-12   12:48:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: hondo68 (#19)

Best wishes for a speedy recovery from your tree-hugging, human-hating, normalphobia.

You can lead a libtard to knowledge, but you can't make them think.

You would have called Jesus normalphobic too.

Almost every country in the Middle East is awash in oil, and we have to side with the one that has nothing but joos. Goddamn, that was good thinkin'. Esso posted on 2012-01-13 7:37:56 ET

mininggold  posted on  2012-02-12   12:50:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: Ferret Mike (#17)

But the research of the APA and many other entities that have done good, impartial research backs up my position well enough to make it impossible for bigotry

Why do you call us bigots? That is a ridiculous charge. You are talking in pedophile code in order to try and lure kids into perversion and a destructive lifestyle. When you say that it is ok and normal you are assaulting kids. What do you call someone who assaults kids? That is what you would be. So cut the pedophile code talking out. It is sick.

A K A Stone  posted on  2012-02-12   13:22:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Ferret Mike (#18)

Racism

Pay attention to the conversation. We aren't talking about racism.

A K A Stone  posted on  2012-02-12   13:27:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: A K A Stone (#22)

"Pay attention to the conversation. We aren't talking about racism."

Pay attention to the fact I used it as an example to compare a similar irrational hatred and wedge issue.

Ferret Mike  posted on  2012-02-12   13:35:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: Ferret Mike (#23)

Pay attention to the fact I used it as an example to compare a similar irrational hatred and wedge issue.

There are no similarities. One is a skin color that you are born of. One is an action one decides to take.

A K A Stone  posted on  2012-02-12   13:36:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: A K A Stone (#21)

"Why do you call us bigots?"

because, you express bigotry. Are you denying you are bigoted against homosexuals? If you are, explain why you need to slander people as child molesters to try to dehumanize them, when pedophiles are commonly known as a different class of people who fear sexual contact with their peers?

Studies show gay people as fully normal and functional in every way. Their only difference is their sexual partners.

Consenting adults engaged in a relationship is not pedophilia. This is no more a rational argument than the old racist saw that blacks need to be controlled because they are childish by nature and merely out to get our White women.

Ferret Mike  posted on  2012-02-12   13:41:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: A K A Stone (#24) (Edited)

One os born with a predilection that imprints them with a desire for a same gender partner. It is proven by well vetted research that it is hardly a choice, it is an expression of inherent nature of many people.

This is why so called 'cures' of people who have no control over what fires their rocket than you do fail miserably. 'Cured' people generally return to their inherent preference of a sexual partner; regardless of any desire to get them to do otherwise.

Ferret Mike  posted on  2012-02-12   13:45:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: Ferret Mike (#25)

Studies show gay people as fully normal and functional in every way. Their only difference is their sexual partners

Most murderers are normal in every way. Except they kill people. What you say there is evidence of nothing. You sound like the defense attorney for pedophiles making exescuses. Any if you are born with your "sexual orientation" (It is really preference but I'll use your dumb word to make a point) then by following your "logic" to its conclusion, pedophiles are born that way too.

And you trying to bring race into it a red herring and ignored by all except the dumbest of the dumb and the evil.

A K A Stone  posted on  2012-02-12   13:46:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: Ferret Mike (#25)

because, you express bigotry. Are you denying you are bigoted against homosexuals?

What you are doing is trying to recruit kids into being queer. You are telling them that it is alright when it isn't. You are a sicko.

A K A Stone  posted on  2012-02-12   13:47:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: Ferret Mike (#26)

One os born with a predilection that imprints them with a desire for a same gender partner. It is proven by well vetted research

Mike you are stupid. You just read that in a book and it fit your mentally deranged view of the world. So you adopted it as your talking point. It isn't true. The net effect of your words are to try and recruit kids into a perversion by saying that it is ok and natural. You are a sicko.

A K A Stone  posted on  2012-02-12   13:49:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: A K A Stone (#27)

Murderers don't function well in society. And their victims are not consenting adults.

Gay people are indistinguishable from everyone else in how well they succeed in society, and in how productive a member of society they are.

The only difference is in the gender preference of their consenting adult partner.

Ferret Mike  posted on  2012-02-12   13:50:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: Ferret Mike (#26)

This is why so called 'cures' of people who have no control over what fires their rocket than you do fail miserably.

Again follow your illogic to its conclusion. You are saying pedophiles can't be cured and they fail miserably. Therefore according to your logic pedophiles must be normal. Again you are trying to turn kids into freak perverts. So again I must say you are a sicko.

A K A Stone  posted on  2012-02-12   13:50:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: Ferret Mike (#30)

Gay people are indistinguishable from everyone else in how well they succeed in society,

That is irrelevant. It has nothing to do with this issue. There are many wife beaters that are indistinguishable from everyone else in how well they succeed in society. So by your words you are hung. Applying the definition you just used you just said that wife beaters are normal and should be respected. Your brain is fried Mike. You need help real bad.

A K A Stone  posted on  2012-02-12   13:53:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: A K A Stone (#29)

I didn't 'just read a book.' Society is changing, and being homosexual is no longer considered an affliction based on very extensive and well conducted research.

I am aware of this research as are those who are successfully working for change.

Keep your head in the sand like and ostrich and feed your irrational hatred all you want, but in the end it will get you nowhere.

Ferret Mike  posted on  2012-02-12   13:53:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: Ferret Mike (#30)

Murderers don't function well in society.

What is that supposed to mean. Murderers like queers have jobs. Murderers like queers go to church. Murderers like queers go to football and basketball games. Murderers and queers both go to the movies and eat at restaurants.

i have just demonstrated that murderers and queers can both function in society. But that doesn't mean what they do is right. It isn't right to kill someone. It isn't a natural right way to use your body and interact with another human being.

A K A Stone  posted on  2012-02-12   13:55:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: A K A Stone (#32)

Wife beaters like murderers do not deal with consenting adult partners.

In the end you can construct no rational argument, thus you resort to name calling and epithets.

This is your problem, not mine. I don't give a damn what you want to label me with name calling.

Bullying does not work. To bad you can't seem to figure that one out.

Ferret Mike  posted on  2012-02-12   13:56:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: A K A Stone (#34)

Killing someone is not functioning well in society. Murder victims are not consenting adults.

You have proven nothing.

Ferret Mike  posted on  2012-02-12   13:57:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: Ferret Mike (#33)

I didn't 'just read a book.' Society is changing,

Society is changing is a weak argument too.

What is right and wrong are always the same. It doesn't matter if society is changing. When nazi Germany changed it was still wrong to murder Jews. Because America changed and legalized abortion doesn't mean it is now right to have an abortion. So just because people like you have infiltrated the minds of innocent children and sold them the hell damning lie that it is normal and good to engage in such conduct, it is still wrong.

Your arguments are that of a weak child that are easily defeated.

A K A Stone  posted on  2012-02-12   13:58:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: Ferret Mike (#36)

Killing someone is not functioning well in society. Murder victims are not consenting adults.

How is engaging in homo sex functioning well in society? If they do it in their bedroom no one would even know and it would have no bearing whatsoever on society. So you are full of shit as usual. If they do it in public it is a crime and they should be dealt with accordingly. Like I said your arguments are those of a man who builds his house on a frozen pond. When the heat comes you sink and drown.

A K A Stone  posted on  2012-02-12   14:01:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: Ferret Mike (#17)

I am not the one with a problem. You are the one with the problem, as you are pretending a very destructive behavior is OK and should be accepted. The medical data supports my position, not yours.

thoughtomator  posted on  2012-02-12   14:06:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: Ferret Mike (#35)

Wife beaters like murderers do not deal with consenting adult partners.

That is another weak argument. The argument that would come from someone lying or mentally deficient. You are saying that any conduct that is engaged in by consenting people is moral and right. That isn't the case Mike. It just isn't. You can pretend it is the case but that has no bearing on reality.

A K A Stone  posted on  2012-02-12   14:06:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: Ferret Mike (#35)

Bullying does not work. To bad you can't seem to figure that one out.

You should write the pervert that you voted for that resides at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave and tell him to quit bullying the church. They don't want to buy condoms and abortion pills for the people who work for them. Bullying will not work against the church.

Have you ever heard of the first amendment to the United States Constitution?

If you have you certainly don't support it.

A K A Stone  posted on  2012-02-12   14:09:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: A K A Stone (#37)

What is right and wrong is always the same, and there have always been gay people.

Trying to stop consenting adults from having the sort of sexual relationships they are imprinted with has always been a fool's errand.

You can't legislate or in any way coerce people to be what they are not. Studies show that the imprinting of sexual preference is very strong and fundamental to human nature.

Just as you cannot imagine having sex with another man and find it not the least titillating a notion does not mean someone feeling the same as you do does not constitute a rational reason to hate someone who feels just like you do, only toward the same gender.

Gay people similarly cannot imagine feeling any other way other than their nature anymore than you can.

Trying to force people to ignore something primal to their nature is always going to fail, regardless of the force used, or laws passed that are a denial of a basic truth about people.

You can't legislate what consenting adults do in the bedroom. It is a fool's errand that is always going to fail.

Ferret Mike  posted on  2012-02-12   14:12:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: Ferret Mike (#42)

What is right and wrong is always the same, and there have always been gay people.

Mike there have always been murderers too.

So by an extension of your screwed up logic. Murder is also alright. Mike there is something not right about you.

A K A Stone  posted on  2012-02-12   14:14:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: A K A Stone (#43) (Edited)

Mike there have always been murderers too.

So by an extension of your screwed up logic. Murder is also alright. Mike there is something not right about you.

Maybe both are the result of chemical imbalances caused by eating too many Betty Crocker "better living thru chemistry" cakes.

Almost every country in the Middle East is awash in oil, and we have to side with the one that has nothing but joos. Goddamn, that was good thinkin'. Esso posted on 2012-01-13 7:37:56 ET

mininggold  posted on  2012-02-12   14:16:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: Ferret Mike (#42)

Trying to stop consenting adults from having the sort of sexual relationships they are imprinted with has always been a fool's errand.

Mike no one is trying to stop them from engaging in anything. We are trying to tell freaks with no morals that NO YOU CAN'T GET MARRIED THAT IS A MAN AND A WOMAN DUMBASS!!! If people were born that way there would be no need to try and indoctrinate people in school and now the military to accept what is wrong as right. So you dumb ass liberals can make all the dumb ass laws you want. Two queers will never be married and society by in large will never accept it.

So stay away from the kids Mike. Because if you came to my house and started telling my kids it was normal. I would beat you to a pulp.

A K A Stone  posted on  2012-02-12   14:17:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: A K A Stone (#40)

"You are saying that any conduct that is engaged in by consenting people is moral and right."

It wouldn't be moral or right if a majority of gay people tried to force a minority of straight people to feel as they do or act in a way they prefer.

As I said, there have always been gay people, and their always will be. The sexual relationships of gay people are consenting, and to not infringe on anybody.

They function well in society, and are normal in every way. trying to say they are not because one cannot imagine having that gender preference is the expression of an irrational bias.

Irrational bias put into law is bigotry in action. The issue has sparked much research inthe issue, and the research proved the bias as unjustified, thus things are changing for the better, and bigotry against gay people is changing, and much of the irrational hatred of them is gone.

Sorry this alarms you, but the trend is unstoppable, and is not going to go away, no matter how much you wish it to.

Ferret Mike  posted on  2012-02-12   14:19:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#47. To: Ferret Mike (#42)

You can't legislate or in any way coerce people to be what they are not.

Mike you keep using the same childish arguments.

If we make laws against being queer people are still going to do it.

If we make laws against murder people are still going to do it.

If we make laws against stealing people are still going to do it.

So just because a law will not be followed doesn't make it natural or right. It isn't hard to comprehend for anyone with a second grade education.

A K A Stone  posted on  2012-02-12   14:20:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: Ferret Mike (#46)

The sexual relationships of gay people are consenting, and to not infringe on anybody.

Until they come on websites and proclaim that it is normal and good. Then they influence kids and should be dealt with. It should maybe a crime since you are targeting kids for recruitment.

A K A Stone  posted on  2012-02-12   14:21:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: Ferret Mike (#46)

ey function well in society, and are normal in every way. trying to say they are not because one cannot imagine having that gender preference is the expression of an irrational bias.

Mike Theives can function well in society except when they steal. So your argument is no argument at all.

A K A Stone  posted on  2012-02-12   14:22:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: A K A Stone (#43)

"Mike there have always been murderers too."

Murder does not involve consenting adults. The behavior a murderer engages in that precipitates to murder is usually pretty damn reprehensible.

Homosexual behavior between like minded people hurts no one, and gay people are very much just as productive and well adjusted socially as straight people.

Ferret Mike  posted on  2012-02-12   14:22:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#51. To: Ferret Mike (#46)

The issue has sparked much research inthe issue, and the research proved the bias as unjustified

Mike. You are lying. There is no such research.

A K A Stone  posted on  2012-02-12   14:23:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#52. To: A K A Stone (#49)

Stealing does not involve a consenting victims, again, this is a fallacious argument.

Ferret Mike  posted on  2012-02-12   14:23:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#53. To: A K A Stone, Ferret Mike (#45)

"Because if you came to my house and started telling my kids it was normal. I would beat you to a pulp."

Exactly how I, and my family members feel. It leaves NO room for mis- understanding Mike, except I would come after you, or any other pervert with my glock.

And if you think for one second that calling me, or any of my loved ones, your stupid dog whistle names, bigot, homophobe, or whatever, would save your sorry ass...think again chump!

Where our children are concerned you STUPID PERVERT, we'll take our chances with the 12, but sick shits such as yourself, you'll be dealing with the 6! jmho!

(Ferret Mike: "The best way to lead is by example. If we got rid of nuclear weapons, it would be profoundly easier to justify acting against other nations should they act to develop them.")

Murron  posted on  2012-02-12   14:25:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#54. To: Ferret Mike (#50)

Murder does not involve consenting adults. The behavior a murderer engages in that precipitates to murder is usually pretty damn reprehensible.

You said right is always the same.

Right and wrong are the same for children and adults.

So you must think that pedophiles are normal if the kid is consenting.

Mike you are sick.

A K A Stone  posted on  2012-02-12   14:25:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#55. To: Ferret Mike (#52)

Stealing does not involve a consenting victims, again, this is a fallacious argument.

Like I said. Just because two people consent to something doesn't make it right.

Let me smack you down with something you think is wrong.

If bill Gates Consents to Give Mitt Romney a billion dollars to run against the perverted freak in the white house. That would be consenting adults.

A K A Stone  posted on  2012-02-12   14:27:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#56. To: Murron (#53)

Exactly how I, and my family members feel. It leaves NO room for mis- understanding Mike, except I would come after you, or any other pervert with my glock.

Not that I expect Mike would do that. I was just being theoretical.

A K A Stone  posted on  2012-02-12   14:27:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#57. To: Ferret Mike (#50)

Homosexual behavior between like minded people hurts no one

Mike no matter how hard you try I will never support you being able to adopt.

A K A Stone  posted on  2012-02-12   14:28:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#58. To: A K A Stone (#51)

It is right there at the APA site, it is there in libraries both public and in those of universities, and if I went there and did a huge cut and paste of it here, no one would read it, or pay attention to it.

You need to go read it by virtue of your own effort. The fact it exists is undeniable, things would not be changing othewise.

I have been debating this issue since 1995 and I have done the citation, links and cut and paste.

But in the end that does little to change a mind like yours'.

You are smart enough to find stuff on the APA site, i an quite sure. Though if you were willing to read it and take it seriously, I might be convinced to do your work for you and once again go get links to this research material, I might.

But you are going to have to ask me to, and then promise to read it. Frankly, I don't think you have the desire, or propensity to make the effort to do this.

And the lurker base of this site is just not large enough to do this exercise just for their benefit.

Ferret Mike  posted on  2012-02-12   14:31:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#59. To: A K A Stone (#57)

"Mike no matter how hard you try I will never support you being able to adopt."

I am not gay, nor in the market to adopt.

Stop being a smart ass.

Ferret Mike  posted on  2012-02-12   14:32:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#60. To: Ferret Mike (#58)

And the lurker base of this site is just not large enough to do this exercise just for their benefit.

How big is the lurker base?

A K A Stone  posted on  2012-02-12   14:32:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#61. To: A K A Stone (#54)

"So you must think that pedophiles are normal if the kid is consenting."

You need maturity and seasoning to be able to form consent. Which is why there are statutory rape laws, and why pedophiles victimize.

A twenty-five year old woman having sexual relations with another twenty-five year old woman is only a big deal if you make it that way, and both people are old enough, and have enough life experience to make the choice of whom they go to bed with.

And it is not up to people like you to impress their lack of empathy or human tolerance on them to make them do otherwise.

Ferret Mike  posted on  2012-02-12   14:36:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#62. To: A K A Stone (#60)

It's your site, you tell me.

Ferret Mike  posted on  2012-02-12   14:37:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#63. To: A K A Stone (#45) (Edited)

"So stay away from the kids Mike. Because if you came to my house and started telling my kids it was normal. I would beat you to a pulp."

Bad tactic trying to but me on the defensive that way. This sort of argumentative tactic just shows how much maturity you lack.

Grow up. Even were you in the same city as myself, I don't go into a house I am not invited into, and when I am at another's home, I am a good guest.

You are being beaten up argumentatively and that pisses you off so you want to wave your pecker at me and talk big talk about physical violence you should spare yourself the trouble; I am not frightened by you.

like Murron claims, I own a glock I bought a long time ago while in the Army along with several other weapons.

I would never go out and bully and assault anyone. But I am also not shy when it comes to the job of defending myself.

And if I lived in fear, i wouldn't be a political activist, or be talking on these 'chit chat' boards as buckeroo likes to call them. ;-)

Ferret Mike  posted on  2012-02-12   14:48:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#64. To: A K A Stone (#13)

You are a normaphobe and a pussyphobe.

You're a homophobe and a dipshit.

meguro  posted on  2012-02-12   17:22:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#65. To: A K A Stone (#21)

Why do you call us bigots?

You're not a bigot. Just a stupid dipshit who doesn't know any better.

I also suspect you're a closet gay.

meguro  posted on  2012-02-12   21:34:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#66. To: meguro (#65)

That is what you perverts say when you whenever anyone challenges your perverting society.

A K A Stone  posted on  2012-02-12   21:51:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#67. To: A K A Stone (#66)

That is what you perverts say when you whenever anyone challenges your perverting society.

It's true, isn't it?

meguro  posted on  2012-02-12   23:14:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#68. To: A K A Stone (#66) (Edited)

I'd say you are the pervert who can't keep his nose out of other people's bed rooms.

Meguro has a point about one thing; they did a study where they showed a study group of straight men who weren't bigoted and others with your sort of strong reaction to homosexuality.

They showed both groups porn, both straight and gay and measured the reaction of the men's penises.

The homophobic men generally showed an increase in turgidity when showed the gay porn.

This indicates that with some me, their true feelings of sexual attraction to other me causes deep conflict within them expressed as homophobic sentiment.

It is possible you do have sexual feelings for other me, or you are just a stupid bully who got off on picking on boys smaller than you in high school and found tormenting them by calling them gay to be a fun sport.

Either way Stone, there is something not quite right about you.

You should get help.

Ferret Mike  posted on  2012-02-13   0:56:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#69. To: A K A Stonemeguro (#67) (Edited)

New Study Links Homophobia with Homosexual Arousal

August 1996 Press Release

WASHINGTON -- Psychoanalytic theory holds that homophobia -- the fear, anxiety, anger, discomfort and aversion that some ostensibly heterosexual people hold for gay individuals -- is the result of repressed homosexual urges that the person is either unaware of or denies. A study appearing in the August 1996 issue of the Journal of Abnormal Psychology, published by the American Psychological Association (APA), provides new empirical evidence that is consistent with that theory.

Researchers at the University of Georgia conducted an experiment involving 35 homophobic men and 29 nonhomophobic men as measured by the Index of Homophobia scale. All the participants selected for the study described themselves as exclusively heterosexual both in terms of sexual arousal and experience.

Each participant was exposed to sexually explicit erotic stimuli consisting of heterosexual, male homosexual and lesbian videotapes (but not necessarily in that order). Their degree of sexual arousal was measured by penile plethysmography, which precisely measures and records male tumescence.

Men in both groups were aroused by about the same degree by the video depicting heterosexual sexual behavior and by the video showing two women engaged in sexual behavior. The only significant difference in degree of arousal between the two groups occurred when they viewed the video depicting male homosexual sex: 'The homophobic men showed a significant increase in penile circumference to the male homosexual video, but the control [nonhomophobic] men did not.'

Broken down further, the measurements showed that while 66% of the nonhomophobic group showed no significant tumescence while watching the male homosexual video, only 20% of the homophobic men showed little or no evidence of arousal. Similarly, while 24% of the nonhomophobic men showed definite tumescence while watching the homosexual video, 54% of the homophobic men did.

When asked to give their own subjective assessment of the degree to which they were aroused by watching each of the three videos, men in both groups gave answers that tracked fairly closely with the results of the objective physiological measurement, with one exception: the homophobic men significantly underestimated their degree of arousal by the male homosexual video.

Do these findings mean, then, that homophobia in men is a reaction to repressed homosexual urges, as psychoanalysis theorizes? While their findings are consistent with that theory, the authors note that there is another, competing theoretical explanation: anxiety. According to this theory, viewing the male homosexual videotape may have caused negative emotions (such as anxiety) in the homophobic men, but not in the nonhomophobic men. As the authors note, 'anxiety has been shown to enhance arousal and erection,' and so it is also possible that 'a response to homosexual stimuli [in these men] is a function of the threat condition rather than sexual arousal per se. These competing notions can and should be evaluated by future research.'

Article: 'Is Homophobia Associated With Homosexual Arousal?' by Henry E. Adams, Ph.D., Lester W. Wright, Jr., Ph.D. and Bethany A. Lohr, University of Georgia, in Journal of Abnormal Psychology, Vol. 105, No. 3, pp 440-445.

http://www.philosophy-religion.org/handouts/homophobia.htm

Here is a brief explination of that study. Read it and learn, Stone.

Ferret Mike  posted on  2012-02-13   1:08:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#70. To: Ferret Mike (#68)

bullshit study

C'mon Mike.

Wadda load of psycho-babble horseshit.

Tag line: I wuz HACKED, cuz I SAY so!

(Boris Y) "I'd vote for obama"

(Mad Dog, Paul voter) IF RonniePAULIE runs as a repukelican't, (OR even as a demonRAT), against the messiah "king" obammy; I'd vote FOR him.

Wood_Chopper  posted on  2012-02-13   1:12:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#71. To: Wood_Chopper (#70)

The Board of Trustees of the American Psychiatric Association removed homosexuality from the DSM in 1973 after reviewing the evidence that it was not a mental disorder. I read much their position papers and what their conclusions were, and I looked at how they did their impartial studies that arrived at the conclusion that helped 'decriminalize homosexuality by proving it to not be a disorder.

After a similar review in 1987, ego-dystonic homosexuality was also taken out of the DMS, and the DMS-III-R was published without it. I read the work this action was based on too.

I had a job with basic Right Oregon as an activist fighting the Oregon Citizen's Alliance's attempt to go after homosexuals with a series of ballot measures we helped defeat.

The OCA eventually disbanded in disgrace after we exposed them for who they were to the people of Oregon.

I have worked long and hard to help fight homophobia and to advance the cause of human rights for this grou; and others in my years as an activist.

It is far from what you describe it as. The studies were done properly and were well vetting. So was the one I just talked about concerning homophobic people.

If you have a credible citation proving otherwise, let's have it.

Ferret Mike  posted on  2012-02-13   1:29:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#72. To: Ferret Mike (#71)

If you have a credible citation proving otherwise, let's have it.

Global warming.

Everybody's got an agenda.

Big words don't impress me. The bigger the words, the bigger the liar.

impartial studies

There's no such fucking thing Mike. You know that. I know you know that.

What's that guys name who got screwed over for claiming the earth orbited the sun and not the other way round?

Fuck, I just found out fried foods aren't a threat to heart health. Who knew?

Tag line: I wuz HACKED, cuz I SAY so!

(Boris Y) "I'd vote for obama"

(Mad Dog, Paul voter) IF RonniePAULIE runs as a repukelican't, (OR even as a demonRAT), against the messiah "king" obammy; I'd vote FOR him.

Wood_Chopper  posted on  2012-02-13   1:55:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#73. To: Wood_Chopper (#72) (Edited)

Human rights is my agenda, Woody. We are talking about how some claim to care about that, but all I see is a desire to control and oppress.

You have Stone here wanting to kill anyone who gets in his way of controlling a woman's pregnancy. he destroys the notion his stand is about caring for the sanctity of life the second he talks about passing out death should he not get his way.

You have him and others wanting to lynch people back into the closet and he threatens a poster to make him sorry he didn't crawl into self loathing and second class citizenship if he doesn't listen to his notion of human control.

I call bullshit on him and all of those who want to scapegoat people to use the fear that scapegoating causes to control others by trying to make them fear people who are good citizens, work hard, fight for their country, and only want to be treated fairly.

It ain't your or Stone's business who anyone sleeps with, marries, or cares about. Not as long as we are talking about much the same relationship anyone else has.

No one has a right to play gender cop, and the game of spite and hatred of people who are gay, transgender, or bisexual. That game is coming to the end, and those who dare try to control people for their own political or social gain is sinking into the deserved spot it has earned in the dustbin of history.

And if you don't like it, then it's your or anyone else wanting to scapegoat and bully others merely to advance your socio-political agenda's tough shit.

That plain enough talk for ya? I don't like oppression, and many including myself are willing to to whatever it takes to stop it.

Ferret Mike  posted on  2012-02-13   4:01:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#74. To: Ferret Mike (#73)

Mike lets put it this way. You're a loser nobody that supports perverting our nation. You are the enemy.

A K A Stone  posted on  2012-02-13   6:39:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#75. To: Ferret Mike (#73)

Human rights is my agenda,

No you are a walking talking pedophile propagandist.

A K A Stone  posted on  2012-02-13   6:40:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#76. To: Ferret Mike (#69)

Here is a brief explination of that study. Read it and learn, Stone.

No need to read it. You are an evil witch that wants to make it easy for faggots to molest kids. You are a sicko. Post your picture. You look like one too. It is in your eyes.

A K A Stone  posted on  2012-02-13   6:41:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#77. To: Ferret Mike (#73)

shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

A K A Stone  posted on  2012-02-13   7:16:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#78. To: A K A Stone (#76)

"No need to read it."

You are too intellectually lazy to read it, face it.

No Stonie, these posts show you for what you are, someone who operates on emotions, and lacks an emotional anchor.

I'll tell you who the sicko is here; someone who would endanger people who work for the government doing drugery work like opening the mail at the White House.

You posted that thread with a dangerous school boy prank of mailing unrefrigerated semen to the White House. It is illegal to send blood pathogens through the mail, something semen can have in it.

You called it a protest, it's not.

In a protest, one makes it successful by doing it without risk to others or violence.

You hate President Obama so much, you would risk the health of workers by possibly exposing them to hepatitis B, HIV, and many other pathogens hat can live in body fluids.

That is a dangerous prank, worse than calling in a bomb threat.

You are emotionally unstable and lack empathy and caring for others. So, you can say what you like about me, the words of hate from a madman don't worry me at all.

Ferret Mike  posted on  2012-02-13   8:12:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#79. To: A K A Stone, Ferret Mike (#76) (Edited)

No need to read it.

Of course not, dipshit. We wouldn't want you to hurt your head.

Are you a closet gay that hates himself?

meguro  posted on  2012-02-13   9:53:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#80. To: Ferret Mike (#73)

and those who dare try to control people for their own political or social gain is sinking into the deserved spot it has earned in the dustbin of history.

Mike, have you ever considered that THAT is EXACTLY what the "gay and lesbian" agenda is doing, and the people it is being done to don't like it?

Acceptance can never be forced upon someone, no matter how hard they try to do just that. Acceptance is given by the person doing the acccepting, not something forced upon the "acceptor".

To many people, "married" homosexuals are no more married than two 8 year olds who play dress up and say "I do" to each other.

It ain't your or Stone's business who anyone sleeps with, marries, or cares about.

Correct. So why do they keep beating me over the head with their sexuality and keep demanding my acceptance and approval of what they're doing?? THEY seem to think it's my business.

Tag line: I wuz HACKED, cuz I SAY so!

(Boris Y) "I'd vote for obama"

(Mad Dog, Paul voter) IF RonniePAULIE runs as a repukelican't, (OR even as a demonRAT), against the messiah "king" obammy; I'd vote FOR him.

Wood_Chopper  posted on  2012-02-13   21:50:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#81. To: Wood_Chopper (#80)

To many people, "married" homosexuals are no more married than two 8 year olds who play dress up and say "I do" to each other.

Can I think that way of your marriage, assuming of course you're married?

meguro  posted on  2012-02-14   0:17:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#82. To: meguro (#81)

Can I think that way of your marriage, assuming of course you're married?

Yes. That's exactly my point.

The difference between you and me is that I don't go running to government to force you to accept my marriage.

And I'll wager that you and I would agree that if you thought of my marriage that way, no amount of government edict would make you accept it. You would, however, resent the attempt.

The law of unintended consequence is at work here meguro. You can't pass a law ordering that people respect and accept you, and expect it to work.

Tag line: I wuz HACKED, cuz I SAY so!

(Boris Y) "I'd vote for obama"

(Mad Dog, Paul voter) IF RonniePAULIE runs as a repukelican't, (OR even as a demonRAT), against the messiah "king" obammy; I'd vote FOR him.

Wood_Chopper  posted on  2012-02-14   3:03:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#83. To: meguro (#81)

an I think that way of your marriage, assuming of course you're married?

No you can't. Marriage has a specific definition. It is found in the Bible. It is the union between a man and a woman.

The first amendment is supposed to protect the church from pervert dick suckers like Obama.

A K A Stone  posted on  2012-02-14   5:41:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#84. To: A K A Stone (#83)

No you can't. Marriage has a specific definition. It is found in the Bible.

It's also in the New Oxford American dictionary, dipshit.

the formal union of a man and a woman, typically recognized by law, by which they become husband and wife: a happy marriage | the children from his first marriage. • the state of being married: women want equality in marriage. • informal a similar union between partners of the same sex: gay marriage.

meguro  posted on  2012-02-27   2:49:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#85. To: meguro (#84)

You queers are miserable people. You're not liked to much by society. Your trying to force normal people to accept perversion is sick. You are sick. You can't marry a woman. Only a man. You're a literal dipshit now aren't you.

A K A Stone  posted on  2012-02-27   6:12:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#86. To: A K A Stone (#85)

You queers are miserable people. You're not liked to much by society. Your trying to force normal people to accept perversion is sick. You are sick. You can't marry a woman. Only a man. You're a literal dipshit now aren't you.

Nope, you're the dipshit, dipshit.

Go fuck yourself.

meguro  posted on  2012-02-27   6:22:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#87. To: meguro (#86)

Go fuck a girl freak.

A K A Stone  posted on  2012-02-27   6:26:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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