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Title: Proving the GOP conservatives are suckers: The Rich are really job destroyers not "job creators". As the rich got richer, they eliminated jobs.
Source:
msnbc.msn.com
URL Source: http://maddowblog.msnbc.msn.com/_ne ... 927178-the-koch-brothers-graph
Published: Sep 23, 2011
Author: Will Femia
Post Date: 2011-09-26 11:43:41 by Godwinson
Keywords: None
Views: 88839
Comments: 129
The chart above showing the relationship between the Koch brothers' net worth and the number of people they employ. And so we see that the net wealth of the Koch brothers has grown, but that wealth has not trickled down in the form of job creation at their company. In fact, the Koch brothers have been JOB DELETERS in favor of padding their bank accounts. I bet if I found the data it would show salaries of their remaining employees have also been reduced.
The ExxonMobil chart above also shows the lack of correlation between rising income and "job creation".
How long will you GOP/conservative/libertarian suckers keep arguing that the rich should be left alone because they are "job creators"?
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How do you propose "correcting" this?
Don't you think people should work for what they earn?
#2. To: A K A Stone (#1) (Edited)
First, you right wing suckers need to stop being liars and claim that less (or zero) taxes on the rich or allowing the rich (persons or corporations) to do what they want will "create jobs". That is a lie. Because you lie and call the rich "job creators" means you know that your ideology is a scam and you need to use Orwellian words to lie to the people.
Be honest.
Secondly, if I could correct it I would follow the thesis outlined in this post: The Rich lied to America. We want our jobs and money back.
Lastly, the notion that the "rich" did it all on their own and should keep all their rewards is a fiction because they are not islands. If a man opens up a lemonade stand on the street and makes money off of that he did so on streets the community paid to create, to police, to keep clean and to allow an atmosphere that will allow such an enterprise to take place and be successful. Let the lemonade entrepreneur reap his reward, but he owes society a compensation for creating the conditions for his wealth to accumulate.
With the economy still in the dumper -- maybe permanently? -- and full-time jobs becoming as scarce as rain during a drought, huge percentages of Americans have had their (misplaced) faith in the American dream shaken, the upper-middle-class consumerist lifestyle is exposed as a mirage for anybody who plays by the rules. Capitalism and the America that embraced it as a way of life is now and forever more a failure. It does me good to know that the generation that voted in Reagan and his ideology will see their America die from that ideology before their very own eyes and knowing they had a hand in its destruction.
#3. To: Godwinson (#2)
First, you right wing suckers need to stop being liars and claim that taxes on the rich or allowing the rich (persons or corporations) to do what they want will "create jobs". That is a lie. Because you lie and call the rich "job creators" means you know that your ideology is a scam and you need to use Orwellian words to lie to the people.
The rich do create jobs. People with less means like me can create jobs too. I've created my own job and a job for a few others.
I don't think the rich are the only job creators.
I didn't read your link. It sounds to long to focus on right now.
Why shouldn't the rich or anyone else be able to do "what they want" assuming they aren't going to kill someone or harm someone. Does this mean you think that only the poor should be allowed to do what they want and say "have an abortion"?
#4. To: A K A Stone (#3)
The rich do create jobs.
The so called wealthy also eliminate jobs. The rich or corporations are not in the job creation business but in the personal wealth creation business. If a rich person can get money from eliminating jobs and squeezing down the income from the remaining terrified employees (who just saw others lose their jobs so they don't complain and rationalize why they get less income and job security than their parents did) they he will do so.
What you right wing suckers do is create a falsehood that the rich are what makes the world go round rather than the demand and supply cycle.
Why are you liars?
And the link is to a short thesis by Destro that even a stupid know nothing like yourself can read and understand.
With the economy still in the dumper -- maybe permanently? -- and full-time jobs becoming as scarce as rain during a drought, huge percentages of Americans have had their (misplaced) faith in the American dream shaken, the upper-middle-class consumerist lifestyle is exposed as a mirage for anybody who plays by the rules. Capitalism and the America that embraced it as a way of life is now and forever more a failure. It does me good to know that the generation that voted in Reagan and his ideology will see their America die from that ideology before their very own eyes and knowing they had a hand in its destruction.
#5. To: A K A Stone (#3)
I didn't read your link. It sounds to long to focus on right now.
I posted it just so you can read it without linking:
The Rich lied to America. We want our jobs and money back.
Back in the 90s the free-trade/globalization movement that had begun in earnest a decade earlier took full shape. At the time we had a Democratic President in Clinton who along with some Democrats from his party and most Republicans passed NAFTA and a host of other free trade / open border globalization economic policies.
The American people were told that if they supported globalization even if it led to outsourcing, the next phase in the economy would be one long boom because manufacturing was a dead end and part of the old economy. The new jobs would be the service industry in an office and or maybe people would get to work from home, etc.
Enough people bought into this economic ideology that in the 1990s the switch over began in earnest (long planned but carried out under Clinton).
Now we have had 20 years of this economic philosophy and the experiment has failed for most Americans. The American people have every right to ask for their money back from the he top 1% to 2% of the population that lied to them about the benefits of this new economy. If a new model automobile performed as poorly as the globalized economy did it would have been recalled already.
Why are you still carrying water for the top 1% to 2% who got there because the vast majority made their money from outsourcing production and selling it back to the American people at no discount? The vast difference in low production cost versus the sales price to Americans was pocketed by the top 1%. That is how the wealth transfer worked in earnest. Do you see much a difference in the retail cost of a product made overseas compared to the cost of a MADE IN THE USA brand (if you can still find such a thing)? These obscene profits resulting from the difference in low production costs came at the expense of an American manufacturing job with a decent wage.
Americans were willing to see their manufacturing base be reduced if it meant cost savings in retail outlets (it did not) and if new jobs paying comparable manufacturing sector wages appeared in service sectors to replace lost these outsourced manufacturing jobs (also did not happen). The reality is we lost jobs, many to never return and wages earned have shrunk for the Middle Class while the work load has increased.
As I see it, at this point freedom of action to correct the failed globalized American economy is limited to two avenues for the American people.
One is to undo all those free trade treaties signed in the last 20 years. It can be done but it would be difficult and lead to possible trade wars. In the short term it would be devastating to the economy if that was the case.
A more readily available solution is to take back the wealth from the top 2% of the population that made their fortunes in the last 2 decades in large part due to outsourcing and return (not transfer but RETURN) that money back to the rest of the population in the forms of government services like universal health care and investment in the nation's future (NASA, infrastructure, education).
The promises made by the top 2% via politicians and experts failed to materialize as promised. It is only fair that the rest of the 98% of the population who suffered from this failure are compensated back.
Standing in our way are most Republicans and some Democrats (that seems to be the ratio) who still carry water for the oligarchs that stole our fortunes away. How long will this go on before we correct their error?
With the economy still in the dumper -- maybe permanently? -- and full-time jobs becoming as scarce as rain during a drought, huge percentages of Americans have had their (misplaced) faith in the American dream shaken, the upper-middle-class consumerist lifestyle is exposed as a mirage for anybody who plays by the rules. Capitalism and the America that embraced it as a way of life is now and forever more a failure. It does me good to know that the generation that voted in Reagan and his ideology will see their America die from that ideology before their very own eyes and knowing they had a hand in its destruction.
#6. To: Godwinson (#5)
Back in the 90s the free-trade/globalization movement that had begun in earnest a decade earlier took full shape. At the time we had a Democratic President in Clinton who along with some Democrats from his party and most Republicans passed NAFTA and a host of other free trade / open border globalization economic policies.
I was with Pat Buchanan and Ross Perot on that issue.
#7. To: A K A Stone (#6)
I was with Pat Buchanan and Ross Perot on that issue.
It doesn't matter. You are a Koch sucker these days.
With the economy still in the dumper -- maybe permanently? -- and full-time jobs becoming as scarce as rain during a drought, huge percentages of Americans have had their (misplaced) faith in the American dream shaken, the upper-middle-class consumerist lifestyle is exposed as a mirage for anybody who plays by the rules. Capitalism and the America that embraced it as a way of life is now and forever more a failure. It does me good to know that the generation that voted in Reagan and his ideology will see their America die from that ideology before their very own eyes and knowing they had a hand in its destruction.
#8. To: Godwinson (#7)
Nah. I still support repealing NAFTA, GATT and all those globalist bullshit laws.
#9. To: A K A Stone (#8)
Nah. I still support repealing NAFTA, GATT and all those globalist bullshit laws.
But you are for allowing the wealthy to keep all their profits from that era? You sucker.
With the economy still in the dumper -- maybe permanently? -- and full-time jobs becoming as scarce as rain during a drought, huge percentages of Americans have had their (misplaced) faith in the American dream shaken, the upper-middle-class consumerist lifestyle is exposed as a mirage for anybody who plays by the rules. Capitalism and the America that embraced it as a way of life is now and forever more a failure. It does me good to know that the generation that voted in Reagan and his ideology will see their America die from that ideology before their very own eyes and knowing they had a hand in its destruction.
#10. To: Godwinson, A K A Stone (#4) (Edited)
The so called wealthy also eliminate jobs. The rich or corporations are not in the job creation business but in the personal wealth creation business. If a rich person can get money from eliminating jobs and squeezing down the income from the remaining terrified employees (who just saw others lose their jobs so they don't complain and rationalize why they get less income and job security than their parents did) they he will do so.
I'm always surprised at the short memory spans or rank ignorance of recent history on this forum, such as the era of corporate raiding or hostile takeovers, and subsequent liquidation or sell off of the assets of huge companies which was prevalent during the Reagan administration.
All to increase the price of stock holdings.
#11. To: Godwinson (#9)
But you are for allowing the wealthy to keep all their profits from that era? You sucker.
How would you come up with a way to take their profits back? That is a dumb idea. You can't just take something away from someone because you covet what they have. Go get a job.
#12. To: Godwinson (#0)
How many new jobs has Rush Limbaugh created since the Bush tax cuts? I only ask because he's a huge proponent of the richer=more jobs argument.
#13. To: Skip Intro (#12)
He has created more then you I would say.
He now has a tea line. So there are how many ever that employs. Then there is the delivery drivers for the postal service. I would bet he employs at least 100 people.
#14. To: mininggold (#10)
I'm always surprised at the short memory spans or rank ignorance of recent history on this forum, such as the era of corporate raiding or hostile takeovers, and subsequent liquidation or sell off of the assets of huge companies which was prevalent during the Reagan administration.
Remember PALCO?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Lumber_Company
"You post articles- intellectual excrement, really- that support your inane, insipid mentality, on a regular basis. Capitalist Eric
#15. To: A K A Stone (#13)
He has created more then you I would say.
How many?
#16. To: A K A Stone (#11)
How would you come up with a way to take their profits back? That is a dumb idea. You can't just take something away from someone because you covet what they have.
For one, you make them either keep the profits here in this country or else you put the CEOs in jail.
#17. To: mininggold (#16)
You sound more and more like a nazi.
How about we just repeal it and go to huge tariffs on foreign goods. That sounds like a better idea to me.
What are you and your thugs going to look at everyone's bank account and tell them where to put their money. What about the fourth amendment. You don't care about that do you?
#18. To: Skip Intro (#15)
You only quoted part of what I said.
Do you think you have created more jobs?
#19. To: A K A Stone (#17)
You sound more and more like a nazi.How about we just repeal it and go to huge tariffs on foreign goods. That sounds like a better idea to me.
What are you and your thugs going to look at everyone's bank account and tell them where to put their money. What about the fourth amendment. You don't care about that do you?
Why are you afraid to put rich thieves in jail?
#20. To: A K A Stone (#18)
You only quoted part of what I said.Do you think you have created more jobs?
Putting posters into a pissing match with Rush hardly makes your case.
#21. To: mininggold (#19)
Rich thieves should be put in jail. But someone hiring someone from another nation to work is not a thief.
Obama is a thief. Should he be put in jail?
#22. To: mininggold (#20)
Pissing match? He asked the question. You should pay attention to what was said before before opening your mouth and removing the little doubt some people may still have about you.
#23. To: A K A Stone (#18)
Do you think you have created more jobs?
I didn't benefit from the millionaire tax cut.
#24. To: A K A Stone (#21)
Obama is a thief. Should he be put in jail?
I would start with oldest living president and go from there.
#25. To: Skip Intro (#23)
The millionaires may have got their taxes cut. But so did everyone else. And they still pay a higher percentage despite what the douche bag who calls himself president says.
#26. To: mininggold (#24)
You didn't deny he is a thief. Thanks for the unintentional honesty.
#27. To: A K A Stone (#25)
The millionaires may have got their taxes cut.
May? There's no question about it.
#28. To: Skip Intro (#27)
Do you question that you got your taxes cut?
Do you care that there are millions of deadbeats collecting government goodies that are perfectly capable of working?
#29. To: Skip Intro, mininggold (#27)
The TENTH Commandment - THOU SHALT NOT COVET
Is that the commandment that made you reject God?
#30. To: A K A Stone (#28)
Do you care that there are millions of deadbeats collecting government goodies that are perfectly capable of working?
Think of it this way, many more would be horning in on your painting gig and you would have to lower your prices.
#31. To: A K A Stone (#28)
Do you question that you got your taxes cut?
Let's say my taxes got cut by $1000. At $33,000,000 Limbaugh's taxes got cut by around $1,650,000.
#32. To: mininggold (#30)
I charge more then about anyone. That is because I offer unmatched quality. We do more then paint. We do it all. Except carpet. I never wanted to bust my knees out.
#33. To: A K A Stone (#32)
I charge more then about anyone. That is because I offer unmatched quality. We do more then paint. We do it all. Except carpet. I never wanted to bust my knees out.
Why are you taking the day off?
#34. To: Skip Intro (#31)
Lets say you got your taxes cut by 1000. So you must have paid a few thousand in taxes.
I don't know that your numbers for Limbaugh are correct. But he paid millions in taxes. Do you understand percents. Or do you think you should have got a millin dollar tax decrease?
#35. To: mininggold (#33)
Why are you taking the day off?
It was pouring buckets of rain out there today. Literal buckets. It just stopped and is still way to wet to work on current job.
I'm doing estimates and looking at stuff today. Is that ok nosy butt?
#36. To: Skip Intro (#31)
Let's say my taxes got cut by $1000. At $33,000,000 Limbaugh's taxes got cut by around $1,650,000.
And he probably just started another losing business to cover the tax increase.
#37. To: A K A Stone, Skip Intro, mininggold, lucysmom (#11)
How would you come up with a way to take their profits back? That is a dumb idea. You can't just take something away from someone because you covet what they have. Go get a job.
Stone claims he was against NAFTA and GATT yet won't do anything about taxing the wealth those destructive trade laws created.
I would take profits back via the constitutional tax code and the power of the IRS. NAFTA/GATT was supposed to lower prices and create more jobs. It did nothing of the sort.
Since the USA can't eliminate the the trade agreement without a trade war (especially since Americans pushed for these agreements) then the American people can correct the problem by taxing back the wealth earned by such agreements.
With the economy still in the dumper -- maybe permanently? -- and full-time jobs becoming as scarce as rain during a drought, huge percentages of Americans have had their (misplaced) faith in the American dream shaken, the upper-middle-class consumerist lifestyle is exposed as a mirage for anybody who plays by the rules. Capitalism and the America that embraced it as a way of life is now and forever more a failure. It does me good to know that the generation that voted in Reagan and his ideology will see their America die from that ideology before their very own eyes and knowing they had a hand in its destruction.
#38. To: Godwinson (#37)
lol. So you actually want NAFTA to continue. Poser.
#39. To: Skip Intro, A K A Stone (#31)
Let's say my taxes got cut by $1000. At $33,000,000 Limbaugh's taxes got cut by around $1,650,000.
Why didn't the Kochs or Exxon create more jobs as their profits rose by billions?
With the economy still in the dumper -- maybe permanently? -- and full-time jobs becoming as scarce as rain during a drought, huge percentages of Americans have had their (misplaced) faith in the American dream shaken, the upper-middle-class consumerist lifestyle is exposed as a mirage for anybody who plays by the rules. Capitalism and the America that embraced it as a way of life is now and forever more a failure. It does me good to know that the generation that voted in Reagan and his ideology will see their America die from that ideology before their very own eyes and knowing they had a hand in its destruction.
#40. To: mininggold (#36)
And he probably just started another losing business to cover the tax increase.
I've never tried his tea? Have you? Is it yucky?
#41. To: Godwinson (#39)
Why didn't the Kochs or Exxon create more jobs as their profits rose by billions?
Because they wanted to keep the money they earned I guess. Maybe they don't need anymore help. It is not mine or anyone else's job to make sure that X person has a job. It is an individual responsibility to get your own job.
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