Economy
See other Economy Articles
Title: Economics Debunked: Chapter Two for Sixth Graders
Source:
Naked Capitalism
URL Source: http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011 ... ter-two-for-sixth-graders.html
Published: Sep 22, 2011
Author: Yves Smith
Post Date: 2011-09-22 19:06:50 by lucysmom
Keywords: None
Views: 18854
Comments: 40
Once upon a time, about a hundred years ago, economics was different from how it is today. Many famous people had thought about economics, including Adam Smith, Ricardo, Marx, and others. Economics was not a perfect science, and lots of people who thought about economics disagreed. But in the last century, economists started to agree about two things: economics should become as mathematical as it possibly could, and politicians should listen to economists. Economics at the time was not a very mathematical science, at least compared to the way it is today. Economists used to write articles with very few equations, or even without any equations at all. When did economists start to use math more? The beginnings might have been toward the end of the 180082;s, with some economists named Jevons, Menger, and Walras. But a person who was particularly important was Paul Samuelson. He comes into the story later. In the 192082;s and 193082;s, there lived a great economist named John Maynard Keynes who came up with new ideas about economics. Many people thought that they made a lot of sense...
Post Comment Private Reply Ignore Thread
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest
#1. To: A K A Stone, Fred Mertz, Godwinson, go65, war, no gnu taxes, Skip Intro, ferret mike, jwpegler, mininggold, brian s, mcgowanjm (#0)
ping
"...all of the equations in neoclassical economics are rubbish. The differential equations describe nothing. Economics is not about mathematics, it is about the human being." Sandeep Jaitly
1+1=2? Rubbish! People have 10 fingers and 10 toes, who am I to say? Another toke and a hit of windowpane and anybody can see that 1+1=3 or 6 or 435.273 if they want it to. I'm calling BS on all those silly mathematics, it's too hard to comprehend for those in touch with inner celestial infinite anyhow. Ooo, the trails, the trails, the pretty pretty trails.
I enjoyed reading Chapter Two in its entirety at the link.
I'm glad you enjoyed it enough to read the whole thing.
"...all of the equations in neoclassical economics are rubbish. The differential equations describe nothing. Economics is not about mathematics, it is about the human being." Sandeep Jaitly
Back when I was 18 and a smart ass I had Econ 101 and the Prof had us use HIS dissertation as the textbook. We had to be able to identify all sorts of "complicated" formulas with Greek letters in them and lots of parantheses. It was pretty exasperating for a bunch of kids who just wanted to smoke pot and listen to loud rock and roll... He had an in class study session for the final that was packed to the rafters and he started it off by saying, "Are there any qustions about anything in this course?" My hand shot up. He nodded at me. "You have a lot of really cool forumals in here...did you ever get around to solving any of them?" There was a graveyard sense of silence that dropped on that class as we watched that Prof's face run the colors of the spectrum all the way to purple...he threw his chalk in the garbage can and practically ran out of the class as snickers turned to laughter which turned to guffaws... There's more to the story but that was the best part...
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" I lurk to see if someone other than Myst or Pookie posts anything...
Always go with your first instinct. And mine was that economics made no sense. And my Grand Dad was the smartest money man I ever knew. ;} And that's still true today....8D
Great story. You had to have flunked would be my guess as to the rest of the story.
No...but someone told me that I had better sit in the front row and not move anything other than my pencil when I took the final...I did one better...moved my chair away from everyone else's...I got a B in the class which is what I deserved... To his credit...he acted as if nothing had happened but his TA actually handed the test out and addressed the class while the Prof sat and read the paper...
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" I lurk to see if someone other than Myst or Pookie posts anything...
What happened to the prof and his dissertation?
"...all of the equations in neoclassical economics are rubbish. The differential equations describe nothing. Economics is not about mathematics, it is about the human being." Sandeep Jaitly
That is funny!
"...all of the equations in neoclassical economics are rubbish. The differential equations describe nothing. Economics is not about mathematics, it is about the human being." Sandeep Jaitly
And mine was that economics made no sense. A lot of it seemed counterintuitive to me too. Now it seems a lot of economists agree.
"...all of the equations in neoclassical economics are rubbish. The differential equations describe nothing. Economics is not about mathematics, it is about the human being." Sandeep Jaitly
That was in Spring of 1977...I left that school in 1978...when I returned there full-time in 1982, he was gone. His name was Kirschler, I think.
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" I lurk to see if someone other than Myst or Pookie posts anything...
Economics, no matter what's been done to it over the last century, will always be more philosophy than science. Even Hayek and his idol, Van Mises, were philosophers first. Economics will always be based first upon observations of a limited aspect of human activity, commercial activity. After that, any "predictive" aspects of that activity is guessing.
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" I lurk to see if someone other than Myst or Pookie posts anything...
BTW, that's what the Erica's of the world will never get...
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" I lurk to see if someone other than Myst or Pookie posts anything...
He lacks the necessary humility, among other things.
"...all of the equations in neoclassical economics are rubbish. The differential equations describe nothing. Economics is not about mathematics, it is about the human being." Sandeep Jaitly
You post on the subject of economics and business on a regular basis... Yet your posts demonstrate that you have no fucking clue about the subject, which precludes the possibility to say anything intelligent about the subject. Yet you, dummy-DwarF, and the rest of the left-wing loons at this forum, DEMAND respect, even though you display gross ignorance on a daily basis... Get REAL. Your attempts to dumb-down a subject so that you can more easily digest it, doesn't make the subject simple, it just shows you're dumb. When I chat with people on this forum (as well as others), I give everyone a certain amount of respect. It's the same with everyone I meet, regardless of whether they're a VP at a major corporation, or an old janitor keeping a building clean... EVERYONE deserves a certain level of respect, as a human being. My respect for other people increases or decreases from that baseline, depending on what they say or do... You lost any basis for respect, LONG ago. And my treating you with the contempt you so richly deserve, is not a question of my "humility." It has everything to do with the fact that you're a waste of oxygen. I really don't give a shit whether you like it or not, because you've demonstrated you're unworthy of any real consideration. And as time goes on, and the economy continues to go down the shitter, YOU will either shut up and learn to eat humble-pie... or you'll be one more statistic of the Greater Depression. In my opinion, you're too old, too fucking STUPID to learn to be humble... and so you'll pay the price for your shocking combination of overconfidence and dull stupidity. But either way, it doesn't really matter to me... I just don't fucking care if you live or die...
To :Skippy, toe-jam, old man Fred Alzheimers Mertz, _jim, loonymom/ming, e-type-jackoff, goober56, Wrek, calcon, dummy DwarF, continental op, Biff, gobsheit and meguro You know what, asshole. All you do is call us dumb and stupid. That's it. You don;t provide any information or any facts that rebut our observations or facts. When you post "information" and it gets either debunked or refuted, you do the same...call us dumb...tell us to die...or are unworthy... Now read this carefully, Dilbert... NO ONE GIVES A SHIT WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT... NO ONE GIVES A SHIT ABOUT YOU...
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" I lurk to see if someone other than Myst or Pookie posts anything...
Poor Eric still thinks his first grade debating skills are cutting edge.
Yep, that's right. It's an objective, easily demonstrated observation. SURE I do. But you're too dumb, too stupid,to accept reality when faced with it. It's WHO you are.... Get USED to it... Your posting of blatant propaganda as a response to REAL FACTS which I post, does NOT mean you have "refuted" or "debunked" ANYTHING. It's just your response to the real-world with stupid, transparent "spin." Only STUPID and DUMB people believe the talking-points, dummy-DwarF. Which, of course, is why YOU and loony bitch believe that shit... You're too DUMB, too STUPID, to recognize that you're being conned. Your role in life, is the be "useful idiot..." I'd rather YOU go to the slaughter of your own volition, and ON YOUR OWN, then insist that we follow you into HELL. You wanna' live in a socialist utopia? FINE. Move to fucking CUBA, and if you ever get internet access, send us an update on how FINE it is, there...... At least in this, we can agree... Because YOU are noone... YOU are a NOBODY. And THAT, you socialist loser, will NEVER change.
To :Skippy, toe-jam, old man Fred Alzheimers Mertz, _jim, loonymom/ming, e-type-jackoff, goober56, Wrek, calcon, dummy DwarF, continental op, Biff, gobsheit and meguro Then DEMONSTRATE IT ASSHOLE...
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" I lurk to see if someone other than Myst or Pookie posts anything...
He makes PeeWee Herman look like Daniel Webster...
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" I lurk to see if someone other than Myst or Pookie posts anything...
I don't NEED to debate objective facts, dipshit. Your belief that facts can be debated, demonstrate that you're in the same class as the loonybitch and dummy DwarF. You're all in the "special needs" class... LOL.
To :Skippy, toe-jam, old man Fred Alzheimers Mertz, _jim, loonymom/ming, e-type-jackoff, goober56, Wrek, calcon, dummy DwarF, continental op, Biff, gobsheit and meguro Ok. I'll give you an easy demonstration that you're a dick- sucking "useful idiot." Go click on "Setup" at the top of the page. Scroll down until you see the gif next to your signature. Any questions?
To :Skippy, toe-jam, old man Fred Alzheimers Mertz, _jim, loonymom/ming, e-type-jackoff, goober56, Wrek, calcon, dummy DwarF, continental op, Biff, gobsheit and meguro 2. Become incredulous and indignant. Avoid discussing key issues and instead focus on side issues which can be used show the topic as being critical of some otherwise sacrosanct group or theme. This is also known as the “How dare you!” gambit. 18. Emotionalize, Antagonize, and Goad Opponents. If you can’t do anything else, chide and taunt your opponents and draw them into emotional responses which will tend to make them look foolish and overly motivated, and generally render their material somewhat less coherent. Not only will you avoid discussing the issues in the first instance, but even if their emotional response addresses the issue, you can further avoid the issues by then focusing on how “sensitive they are to criticism”.
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" I lurk to see if someone other than Myst or Pookie posts anything...
You need to create a tag showing Obama throwing feces so Eric will feel more at home.
I don;t know what's more hilarious...his Mad Dog-esque responses or, like Mad Dog, believing that they ARE responses.
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" I lurk to see if someone other than Myst or Pookie posts anything...
VERY good! You're quoting from your own script of DISINFORMATION... The problem with this gambit, is that I'm not interested in your feelings. I don't bother with being incredulous or indignant- why bother? The facts speak for themselves, and NOTHING you say or do will change them. Your only option is "spin." YOUR only option is DISINFORMATION, while my ENTIRE agenda is getting the information out there, so other people can prepare for what's coming.... I don't bother to "Emotionalize, Antagonize, and Goad" you... I just put out the facts, I demonstrate that ALL you have are lies, and that you're incapable of intellectual honesty... All objective facts, to which there is no defense... Go ahead, whine that I'll celebrate your long-overdue demise... FEIGN incredulity, PRETEND to be indignant... LMBO.... How amusing. How completely amusing you are, with your childish beliefls that your "spin" is anywhere near on-par to facts... Truly, you make me laugh. :) LOL....
To :Skippy, toe-jam, old man Fred Alzheimers Mertz, _jim, loonymom/ming, e-type-jackoff, goober56, Wrek, calcon, dummy DwarF, continental op, Biff, gobsheit and meguro Actually, I'm describing each and every one of your responses to me on this thread. You've offered no cogent argument here. I know...I know...I'm unworthy... Fuck off, Junior...
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" I lurk to see if someone other than Myst or Pookie posts anything...
Have I posted links to past statements where you've made a fool of yourself? Nah- what's the point? If you're incapable of accepting fact, it's a waste of time. Instead, I've simply amused myself at your expense... And as usual, you don't disappoint. NOTHING is worse to a leftist, than pure ridicule. It's why you morons use Alinsky's Rules for Radicals as the bible of discourse... Your entire thought-process is built on moral and intellectual superiority over everyone else... NOTHING is more offensive to you pretentious fucks, then to be shown for the know-nothings you REALLY are... EVERY ONE of your leftist idols, demonstrates the incapacity for self-responsibility, and the humility to understand that sometimes you're wrong: oBUMa, who blames EVERYONE and EVERYTHING for his overt failures of leadership, petulant little punk that he is... Al Gore, the "inventor" of the internet, self-destructing in his idiotic attempts to keep the global-warming scam alive. Nancy Pelosi... need I say more? Bill Clintong... the ultimate "Bubba," who'd have been a bigger benefit to the country had he been a used-car salesman. Jimmy Cahtah--- need I say more? Lyndon Johnson--- need I say more? Al Sharpton, "Reverend" Jesse Jackson- two poverty-pimps, for certain... I could go on, but the common threads amongst these people, is their arrogance, inability to accept the consequences of their actions, and the illusion of moral superiority... (though they have all the morals of a 2-bit thief). You're worthy of continued scorn and ridicule. I'll be happy to continue delivering both to you. ;^) LOL.
To :Skippy, toe-jam, old man Fred Alzheimers Mertz, _jim, loonymom/ming, e-type-jackoff, goober56, Wrek, calcon, dummy DwarF, continental op, Biff, gobsheit and meguro Please have at it and PING me when you decide to commence, Junior...
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" I lurk to see if someone other than Myst or Pookie posts anything...
Nancy Pelosi... need I say more? Bill Clintong... the ultimate "Bubba," who'd have been a bigger benefit to the country had he been a used-car salesman. Jimmy Cahtah--- need I say more? Lyndon Johnson--- need I say more? Al Sharpton, "Reverend" Jesse Jackson- two poverty-pimps, for certain... 4. Use a straw man. Find or create a seeming element of your opponent’s argument which you can easily knock down to make yourself look good and the opponent to look bad. Either make up an issue you may safely imply exists based on your interpretation of the opponent/opponent arguments/situation, or select the weakest aspect of the weakest charges. Amplify their significance and destroy them in a way which appears to debunk all the charges, real and fabricated alike, while actually avoiding discussion of the real issues. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ You still need to work on the "destroy" part tho...you're using a squirt gun on a forest fire...
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" I lurk to see if someone other than Myst or Pookie posts anything...
ANOTHER feeble attempt to twist context, eh? How old are you? And..... how's your cookie?
To :Skippy, toe-jam, old man Fred Alzheimers Mertz, _jim, loonymom/ming, e-type-jackoff, goober56, Wrek, calcon, dummy DwarF, continental op, Biff, gobsheit and meguro Which post are you referencing, JR? How old are you? 53 - which makes me hope that you are currently under parental supervision... And..... how's your cookie? Bad guess...I'm eating a meatball...
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" I lurk to see if someone other than Myst or Pookie posts anything...
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" I lurk to see if someone other than Myst or Pookie posts anything...
Foreplay before the president's staff? LOL. Eat your cookie.
To :Skippy, toe-jam, old man Fred Alzheimers Mertz, _jim, loonymom/ming, e-type-jackoff, goober56, Wrek, calcon, dummy DwarF, continental op, Biff, gobsheit and meguro I can't speak for the others, but for myself - it matters not one iota whether you respect me or not. Your attempts to dumb-down a subject so that you can more easily digest it, doesn't make the subject simple, it just shows you're dumb. Not everything can be quantified in a mathematical formulae. That's just reality. I really don't give a shit whether you like it or not, because you've demonstrated you're unworthy of any real consideration. Oooo, now you've cut me to the quick. In my opinion, you're too old, too fucking STUPID to learn to be humble... and so you'll pay the price for your shocking combination of overconfidence and dull stupidity. But either way, it doesn't really matter to me... I just don't fucking care if you live or die... LOL!
"...all of the equations in neoclassical economics are rubbish. The differential equations describe nothing. Economics is not about mathematics, it is about the human being." Sandeep Jaitly
Ping me when you post a fact - I want to see this.
"...all of the equations in neoclassical economics are rubbish. The differential equations describe nothing. Economics is not about mathematics, it is about the human being." Sandeep Jaitly
No...ground meat, veal and pork...spiced with garlic and and chopped fresh basil and oregano...browned slightly in olive oil and garlic then baked @ 300F for an hour in a nice marinara. LOL. Did you hear something funny? Eat your cookie. Suck my ass...
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" I lurk to see if someone other than Myst or Pookie posts anything...
Ummmmmmmmm... GOOD cookie, isn't it? Like my new tagline? DUMMY DwarF: ...I'm eating a meatball... DUMMY DwarF: ...I'm eating a meatball... http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=24347&Disp=35#C35 Why would I care about taglines?
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" I lurk to see if someone other than Myst or Pookie posts anything...
#2. To: lucysmom (#1)
"...all of the equations in neoclassical economics are rubbish. The differential equations describe nothing. Economics is not about mathematics, it is about the human being."
#3. To: lucysmom (#1)
#4. To: Fred Mertz (#3)
#5. To: lucysmom (#0)
--GW Bush
--Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere"
#6. To: Fred Mertz, lucysmom (#3)
#7. To: war (#5)
#8. To: Fred Mertz (#7)
(Edited)
--GW Bush
--Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere"
#9. To: Fred Mertz, war (#7)
Great story. You had to have flunked would be my guess as to the rest of the story.
#10. To: war (#5)
#11. To: mcgowanjm (#6)
Always go with your first instinct.
#12. To: lucysmom (#9)
--GW Bush
--Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere"
#13. To: lucysmom (#11)
(Edited)
--GW Bush
--Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere"
#14. To: lucysmom (#11)
Economics, no matter what's been done to it over the last century, will always be more philosophy than science. Even Hayek and his idol, Van Mises, were philosophers first.
--GW Bush
--Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere"
#15. To: war (#14)
BTW, that's what the Erica's of the world will never get...
#16. To: lucysmom (#15)
He lacks the necessary humility, among other things.
From: Capitalist Eric Message:
You're SOCIALIST morons. ESAD.
#17. To: Capitalist Eric (#16)
--GW Bush
--Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere"
#18. To: war (#17)
#19. To: war (#17)
(Edited)
All you do is call us dumb and stupid. That's it.
You don;t provide any information or any facts that rebut our observations or facts.
When you post "information" and it gets either debunked or refuted...
tell us to die...
NO ONE GIVES A SHIT WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT... NO ONE GIVES A SHIT ABOUT YOU...
From: Capitalist Eric Message:
You're SOCIALIST morons. ESAD.
#20. To: Capitalist Eric (#19)
Yep, that's right. It's an objective, easily demonstrated observation.
--GW Bush
--Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere"
#21. To: Skip Intro (#18)
--GW Bush
--Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere"
#22. To: Skip Intro (#18)
Poor Eric still thinks his first grade debating skills are cutting edge.
From: Capitalist Eric Message:
You're SOCIALIST morons. ESAD.
#23. To: war (#20)
Then DEMONSTRATE IT ASSHOLE...
From: Capitalist Eric Message:
You're SOCIALIST morons. ESAD.
#24. To: Capitalist Eric (#23)
--GW Bush
--Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere"
#25. To: war (#24)
2. Become incredulous and indignant. Avoid discussing key issues and instead focus on side issues which can be used show the topic as being critical of some otherwise sacrosanct group or theme. This is also known as the “How dare you!” gambit.
#26. To: mininggold (#25)
--GW Bush
--Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere"
#27. To: war (#24)
From: Capitalist Eric Message:
You're SOCIALIST morons. ESAD.
#28. To: Capitalist Eric (#27)
VERY good! You're quoting from your own script of DISINFORMATION...
--GW Bush
--Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere"
#29. To: war (#28)
You've offered no cogent argument here.
I know...I know...I'm unworthy...
From: Capitalist Eric Message:
You're SOCIALIST morons. ESAD.
#30. To: Capitalist Eric (#29)
(Edited)
You're worthy of continued scorn and ridicule. I'll be happy to continue delivering both to you.
--GW Bush
--Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere"
#31. To: Capitalist Eric (#29)
(Edited)
Al Gore, the "inventor" of the internet, self-destructing in his idiotic attempts to keep the global-warming scam alive.
--GW Bush
--Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere"
#32. To: war (#31)
From: Capitalist Eric Message:
You're SOCIALIST morons. ESAD.
#33. To: Capitalist Eric (#32)
(Edited)
ANOTHER feeble attempt to twist context, eh?
--GW Bush
--Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere"
#34. To: Capitalist Eric (#32)
(Edited)
--GW Bush
--Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere"
#35. To: war (#33)
Bad guess...I'm eating a meatball...
From: Capitalist Eric Message:
You're SOCIALIST morons. ESAD.
#36. To: Capitalist Eric (#16)
Yet you, dummy-DwarF, and the rest of the left-wing loons at this forum, DEMAND respect, even though you display gross ignorance on a daily basis...
#37. To: Capitalist Eric (#27)
The problem with this gambit, is that I'm not interested in your feelings. I don't bother with being incredulous or indignant- why bother? The facts speak for themselves, and NOTHING you say or do will change them. Your only option is "spin." YOUR only option is DISINFORMATION, while my ENTIRE agenda is getting the information out there, so other people can prepare for what's coming....
#38. To: Capitalist Eric (#35)
(Edited)
Foreplay before the president's staff?
--GW Bush
--Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere"
#39. To: war (#38)
Capitalist Eric: Foreplay before the president's staff?
http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=24347&Disp=35#C35 
Capitalist Eric: Foreplay before the president's staff?
#40. To: Capitalist Eric (#39)
Like my new tagline?
--GW Bush
--Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere"
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest
[Home] [Headlines] [Latest Articles] [Latest Comments] [Post] [Mail] [Sign-in] [Setup] [Help] [Register]