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Title: Five bummer problems that make societies collapse
Source:
Transition Voice
URL Source: http://transitionvoice.com/2011/08/ ... -that-make-societies-collapse/
Published: Aug 18, 2011
Author: Erik Curren
Post Date: 2011-08-21 12:07:48 by lucysmom
Keywords: This is the way the world ends
Views: 12568
Comments: 33
“If anyone tells you that there’s a single-factor explanation for societal collapse,” says collapse guru Jared Diamond, “you know right away that they’re an idiot. This is a complex subject.”
So, forget about peak debt, peak oil, peak climate, peak Harry Potter or even peak everything as the single most important problem that could bring today’s whole pulsing, beaming and txt-mssgng mess down into a lifeless pile of shorted-out microchips, rusted carburetors and busted sporks from Taco Bell.
In a TED talk that Diamond gave in 2003 with eerie relevance for this very minute, the author of two books on collapse, the solid-gold hit Guns, Germs and Steel and the more recent Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed, outlined five factors required for any advanced society to give up the ghost.
snip
Diamond thinks a big problem was that the rich and powerful were so into keeping up with the Joneses — “flogging” the land (that’s over-farming to you and me) to compete with other chiefs for who could bring in the most crops and support the biggest posse of loyal retainers — to do anything to stop the madness.
Or, as Diamond puts it, there was a conflict between the short-term interest of the elites and the long-term interest of the whole society. And, since the chiefs and bishops were largely insulated from the problems that their reckless consumption created, they didn’t see how messed up things were getting until it was too late.
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#1. To: Badeye, A K A Stone, hondo68, Fred Mertz, Godwinson, go65, war, no gnu taxes, Skip Intro, ferret mike, jwpegler, brian s, mcgowanjm, Capitalist Eric, Mininggold (#0)
ping
"...all of the equations in neoclassical economics are rubbish. The differential equations describe nothing. Economics is not about mathematics, it is about the human being." Sandeep Jaitly
#2. To: lucysmom (#0) (Edited)
Five bummer problems that make societies collapse
1) Communists
2) Socialists
3) Progressive Multiculturalists
4) Greenies
5) Globalists
"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul
Obama's watch stopped on 24 May 2008, but he's been too busy smoking crack to notice.
#3. To: hondo68 (#2) (Edited)
You forgot: 6) Dumbed down Tea Baggers
#4. To: mininggold (#3)
I'd have made that #1.
And then stopped.
America...My Kind Of Place...
"I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..."
--GW Bush
"THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!"
--Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere"
I lurk to see if someone other than Myst or Pookie posts anything...
#5. To: war (#4)
Where in the heck have you been? I'm a little better every day now. Tammy is visiting.
#6. To: Fred Mertz (#5)
Beach...had a nice memorial for Mom on a beach she had loved all of her life...
Glad to to hear that you're healing...
America...My Kind Of Place...
"I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..."
--GW Bush
"THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!"
--Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere"
I lurk to see if someone other than Myst or Pookie posts anything...
#7. To: hondo68 (#2)
Five bummer problems that make societies collapse1) Communists
2) Socialists
3) Progressive Multiculturalists
4) Greenies
5) Globalists
BUWAHAHAHAHAHA....intake....BUWAHAHA 8D
The New Reality For Many (most) Baby Boomers Will Be To Work As Wage Slaves Until They Drop Dead
The ruling class now visits on its domestic populations the same fate it has delivered for hundreds of years to those deeply unfortunate peoples who lived in targeted foreign countries. In their pursuit of power, wealth and dominion, the ruling class systematically brutalized, tortured, "relocated" and murdered those foreign peoples in vast numbers. (All this continues today, of course; see Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Somalia, Yemen, et al.) .... England and the United States are hollowed-out societies, with their former productive capacity vanishing at an ever-increasing rate. In close alliance with the State, the most powerful and wealthiest corporations continue to amass record profits, but only by siphoning up every last bit of wealth held by the numerically greatest, but otherwise weakest and most defenseless, part of the population."
Run out of Energy, you run out of civilization.
See Libya for details....;}
#8. To: war (#6)
Sorry to hear about your mother. May she Rest in Peace.
#9. To: mcgowanjm (#7)
The New Reality For Many (most) Baby Boomers Will Be To Work As Wage Slaves Until They Drop Dead
Baby boomers had it better than anyone. They had no reason not to save money.
#10. To: mininggold (#3) (Edited)
#11. To: mininggold (#3)
You forgot: 6) Dumbed down Tea Baggers
The dumbest tea partier is smarter then the smartest monkey fucking liberal.
#12. To: A K A Stone (#9)
Baby boomers had it better than anyone. They had no reason not to save money.
No.
The Generation before.
The BB's came out of VietNam and straight into 1974, the best the Middle Class ever was or will be.
After that, their wages were frozen and the way they had it 'better than anyone' was to join in the debt/loans/wife goes to work binge.
There was no way to 'have it better than anyone' and save at the same time. Unfortunately that window has now closed.
"The ruling class now visits on its domestic populations the same fate it has delivered for hundreds of years to those deeply unfortunate peoples who lived in targeted foreign countries. In their pursuit of power, wealth and dominion, the ruling class systematically brutalized, tortured, "relocated" and murdered those foreign peoples in vast numbers. (All this continues today, of course; see Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Somalia, Yemen, et al.) ....
England and the United States are hollowed-out societies, with their former productive capacity vanishing at an ever-increasing rate. In close alliance with the State, the most powerful and wealthiest corporations continue to amass record profits, but only by siphoning up every last bit of wealth held by the numerically greatest, but otherwise weakest and most defenseless, part of the population."
Make sure you're around Israelis, especially during Jewish Holidays when the Military conducts it's drills.
Oh, and Good Luck to all of those Americans on the Eastern Seaboard with Ilene. Cause FEMA's out of $$$. and
#13. To: All (#12) (Edited)
Bummer problem Number One:
Everyone of the World's 442 Nuclear Reactors will melt down:
Watch as the World's third Largest City figures out that there's nowhere to Evac...
"Large Zone Near Japanese Reactors to Be Off Limits, New York Times, August 21, 2011:
Broad areas around the stricken Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant could soon be declared uninhabitable, perhaps for decades, after a government survey found radioactive contamination that far exceeded safe levels, several major media outlets said Monday.
The formal announcement, expected from the government in coming days, would be the first official recognition that the March accident could force the long-term depopulation of communities near the plant [...]
The government is expected to tell many of these residents that they will not be permitted to return to their homes for an indefinite period. [...]."
Like forever...
And the US won't do any better than the Japanese...;}
#14. To: A K A Stone (#9)
Baby boomers had it better than anyone. They had no reason not to save money.
Some did better, some did not. When I was a child, homelessness was a third world country problem and a great shame for those governments that valued human life so little.
"...all of the equations in neoclassical economics are rubbish. The differential equations describe nothing. Economics is not about mathematics, it is about the human being." Sandeep Jaitly
#15. To: A K A Stone (#8)
Thanks...
America...My Kind Of Place...
"I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..."
--GW Bush
"THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!"
--Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere"
I lurk to see if someone other than Myst or Pookie posts anything...
#16. To: war (#6)
Beach...had a nice memorial for Mom on a beach she had loved all of her life...
I'm so sorry. Sounds like she left a loving, thoughtful family, as her most precious gift to the world.
That makes two of us this summer. We haven't decided on where we are having hers. One of the heirs is being a greedy, ungrateful stinker.
#17. To: lucysmom (#14)
Some did better, some did not. When I was a child, homelessness was a third world country problem and a great shame for those governments that valued human life so little.
There were so many of us it was initially hard to find a job.
I don't ever remember any homeless as a kid, the closest thing to it was the skid row drunks, but they were mostly in Oakland.
#18. To: mininggold (#17)
There were so many of us it was initially hard to find a job.
I remember that too.
I don't ever remember any homeless as a kid, the closest thing to it was the skid row drunks, but they were mostly in Oakland.
Yep, we certainly didn't have homeless people in the burbs were I grew up.
"...all of the equations in neoclassical economics are rubbish. The differential equations describe nothing. Economics is not about mathematics, it is about the human being." Sandeep Jaitly
#19. To: lucysmom (#18)
Yep, we certainly didn't have homeless people in the burbs were I grew up.
Back then there were residence hotels where people with little money were able to live. Like drive-in movies, they're nearly all gone now.
Where I grew up, the next door neighbor worked as a butcher at Ralphs, and the guy across the street was a mechanic. Both owned their own homes, had kids and wives who didn't need to work.
It was so different from today it's hard to believe it was real.
#20. To: A K A Stone (#11)
The dumbest tea partier is smarter then the smartest monkey fucking liberal.
My cousin who is now a hard core Tea Begger supporter used to be a union organizer. He wasn't good at that either.
#21. To: Skip Intro (#19)
Back then there were residence hotels where people with little money were able to live. Like drive-in movies, they're nearly all gone now.
We do have residence hotels here but they charge about $40.00 a day. Homeless people do stay there, but only when they have the money.
"...all of the equations in neoclassical economics are rubbish. The differential equations describe nothing. Economics is not about mathematics, it is about the human being." Sandeep Jaitly
#22. To: lucysmom (#21)
We do have residence hotels here but they charge about $40.00 a day.
That's really high. There are motels nearby that charge less than that.
#23. To: Skip Intro (#22)
There are motels nearby that charge less than that.
SF bay area?
I imagine transportation to motels is a problem for the homeless.
"...all of the equations in neoclassical economics are rubbish. The differential equations describe nothing. Economics is not about mathematics, it is about the human being." Sandeep Jaitly
#24. To: lucysmom (#23)
SF bay area?
No, Central coast.
#25. To: Skip Intro (#24)
Some years back ABAG (Assoc. of Bay Area Governments) suggested how much low income housing was needed by each community; one town claimed they had already exceeded their quota because its residents provided rooms for their live-in help.
True story.
"...all of the equations in neoclassical economics are rubbish. The differential equations describe nothing. Economics is not about mathematics, it is about the human being." Sandeep Jaitly
#26. To: Skip Intro (#19)
Back then there were residence hotels where people with little money were able to live. Like drive-in movies, they're nearly all gone now.
They were either torn down or renovated as part of an effort by cities and towns to beautify downtown areas. They served a purpose and should have been left alone.
#27. To: lucysmom (#25)
ABAG (Assoc. of Bay Area Governments)
Self annointed, Communist, subUrban Meddlers...SCUMBAG is a better acronym.
#28. To: Thunderbird (#27)
Self annointed, Communist, subUrban Meddlers...SCUMBAG is a better acronym.
Because uncoordinated, disorganized, and unplanned is the hight of capitalist efficiency.
"...all of the equations in neoclassical economics are rubbish. The differential equations describe nothing. Economics is not about mathematics, it is about the human being." Sandeep Jaitly
#29. To: lucysmom (#28)
Are you Bay Ayrans still hiding all the California Commies? Those guys must be pushing 100 or so by now. How many are left now, about a dozen or so?
#30. To: Skip Intro (#29)
Are you Bay Ayrans still hiding all the California Commies? Those guys must be pushing 100 or so by now. How many are left now, about a dozen or so?
Hard to say, they're all in hiding.
"...all of the equations in neoclassical economics are rubbish. The differential equations describe nothing. Economics is not about mathematics, it is about the human being." Sandeep Jaitly
#31. To: lucysmom (#28)
Because uncoordinated, disorganized, and unplanned is the hight of capitalist efficiency.
Gibberish.
Why don't you freaking bleeding hearts fix Oakland...or Berkeley first for chrissakes?
#32. To: lucysmom (#0) (Edited)
In a TED talk
I am a member of TED. These are creators sharing their vision with the world. Any leftist interpretation is misguided.
I will work every day to try to make Washington, D.C. as inconsequential in your life as I can -- Rick Perry. believe him or not, it's a hell of quote in a country looking to D.C. for answers.
#33. To: jwpegler (#32)
I am a member of TED. These are creators sharing their vision with the world. Any leftist interpretation is misguided.
"The human mind appears to be quite simple in its functional capabilities; it is essentially a pattern generating and pattern recognition system.
A very simple and easy to understand pattern is "this versus that." Because "this versus that" is simple, easy to understand, and easy to "debate," creating artificial dichotomies is a favourite pastime of human beings when we use the default mode of our brain's wetware.
So we get China versus The World (or capitalism versus socialism) and so on."
http://www.ted.com/conversations/3623/can_we_just_take_the_best_of_s.html
"...all of the equations in neoclassical economics are rubbish. The differential equations describe nothing. Economics is not about mathematics, it is about the human being." Sandeep Jaitly
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