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Title: Rise of the Barter Economy and Gold and Silver Currency
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article29066.html
Published: Jul 5, 2011
Author: Peter_Schiff
Post Date: 2011-07-05 14:37:04 by Capitalist Eric
Keywords: None
Views: 72711
Comments: 141

Imagine a day when you go to buy a quart of milk, ask the price, and the cashier says, "that'll be a tenth ounce silver." As the US dollar's decline accelerates, several efforts around the country are trying to make this vision a reality.

Historically, paying for items in silver or gold was actually quite common. We happen to live in an unusual time and place where generations have grown up trading exclusively in paper. While my parents still used dimes made of silver, we have now gone several decades with no precious metals in any of our official coinage. But this system of money by government fiat is unsustainable.

While the practice of bartering precious metals directly for goods and services has continued on a small-scale over the last few decades, the 2000s saw the beginning of organized efforts to revive gold and silver as money.

THE LIBERTY DOLLAR One such effort was spearheaded by an eccentric mintmaster from Hawaii named Bernard Von Nothaus. He called his project the Liberty Dollar, and it centered on privately minted gold and silver rounds as well as deposit certificates for precious metals held in his firm's vaults.

I had many reservations about how the project was implemented - coins were minted with a fixed US dollar amount at which they were supposed to circulate, the dollar amount was well above the spot price of the metal, and authorized "distributors" were allowed to pocket the difference (which often resulted in buyers paying far higher prices for their gold than what they would have paid had they simply bought, say, Canadian Maple Leafs instead) - but I believe Nothaus' idea was a good one, even if the product was over-priced. Tellingly, despite the obvious flaws, public participation grew steadily from 1998 until 2007, when federal agents raided the Liberty Dollar's offices on trumped-up charges of counterfeiting.

Really, they were charging him with competing with the US dollar's monopoly privileges by offering a better product. It's important to note that the case against Nothaus was built around his coins looking similar to official US coinage (though no one actually mistook Liberty Dollars for US currency), and not around encouraging people to use precious metals as circulating money.

DIGITAL GOLD Next came a crop of internet-based currencies backed by gold and silver. Most prominent among them are eGold and GoldMoney. Both were designed to allow customers to open online accounts that were valued in, and backed by, gold and silver bullion.

eGold was perhaps the better known of the two until it, too, was shut down by the US government on charges of money laundering. eGold was positioned more as an online payment system than a means of holding bullion. Due to the anonymous nature of the transactions - it was akin to spending cash - the authorities alleged that it was being used by criminal enterprises to funnel illegal funds. But mostly it was being used by regular people to begin saving and trading in money that holds its value. eGold had a transparent system of annual audits and live transaction screening by any user to keep the system honest. It, too, was growing robustly, and was putting up strong competition against PayPal until the authorities intervened.

GoldMoney, founded by my friend James Turk, has remained in operation by keeping its principal operations overseas and by cooperating fully with onerous US financial regulations. It offers similar services to eGold, but with an emphasis on long-term storage. GoldMoney improves upon traditional storage by locating offshore, offering real-time online account access, and providing extra liquidity. These services do come at a cost, however. Still, over the course of the last decade, GoldMoney has swelled to over $2 billion in assets. Clearly, many people want to trade gold and silver over US dollars.

Digital gold is a niche service, but I think the public's rapid embrace of these projects - none older than ten years - shows that investors are viewing gold and silver as more than mere commodities, but once again seeing them as money. This could signal a paradigm shift back to tradition, which is good news for any precious metals holder.

STRAIGHT UP BARTER While digital currencies are neat, in practical terms, nothing beats the resilience of traditional barter of bullion for goods and services. If you actually own the physical gold and silver that you intend to save or trade, then you can be sure it will be there until you're ready to sell. You don't have to trust anyone except yourself.

In that vein, several efforts have popped up around the country to simply get people trading gold and silver rather than dollars. Since the transactions involved are usually small, such as buying lunch at a local diner, silver is typically the metal of choice.

There are several hotspots for this sort of activity.

Philadelphia has one group, DelValley Silver, that has fostered a local barter market there by encouraging merchants to accept silver coins in addition to dollars. DelValley is also a silver dealer, but they sell privately minted rounds, which can be harder to liquidate than well-known coins like the American Gold Eagle and Canadian Maple Leaf.

Meanwhile, in New Hampshire, many merchants associated with the Free State Project have begun accepting gold and silver at their businesses. Innovation abounds here and the practice of encasing small amounts of silver in laminated cards seems to be the most successful.

Shire Silver encloses silver and gold wire in their cards and measures them in terms of grams. It's much easier to trade a flat, plastic card containing a gram of silver than to carry around a 1 oz coin. However, even their website will admit that the premium on such a small amount of silver makes it less than ideal for investment purposes. Of course, when you're ready to barter, they'll be happy to take your 1 oz rounds in return for some Shire Silver. And that Shire Silver is being accepted by more and more merchants across New Hampshire and beyond.

Another variation, from a group based in Phoenix, Arizona, encloses a pre-1965 US dime inside the laminated card. Before '65, every dime contained 90% silver, making them worth about $2.50 each in today's debased dollars. That's why you won't find any pre-'65 dimes in your change from the grocery store. However, one fellow had the clever idea of putting them in these cards so they could trade at their silver value without getting mixed in with the worthless dimes we carry around today. The same group even created a free iPhone app that translates US dollar prices into various amounts of silver (more info here).

While I'll still be selling regular old bullion coins and bars at Euro Pacific Precious Metals, because these are the best way to invest in physical precious metals, I am energized by these efforts. The great thing about holding and bartering physical precious metals is that there is no central company running the operations, like with the digital gold currencies, and therefore there's no single person the government can go after.

(My new offshore bank, Euro Pacific Bank, Ltd., will soon be offering Visa-branded debit cards back by individual holdings of gold or silver. Euro Pacific Bank customers will be able to purchase gold from the bank, have it stored, and then access their holdings directly using their Visa cards to either make purchases though merchants or withdraw cash from banks and ATMs. Unfortunately, due to the reasons described above, I cannot offer this service to US customers. For more information about my offshore brokerage and banking companies, please visit www.europacintl.com.)

THE WRITING IS ON THE WALL Besides these grassroots efforts at building barter communities, I'm seeing a cultural shift in favor of precious metals. Utah recently passed a law establishing gold and silver as legal tender and abolishing state capital gains taxes on their appreciation. I was interviewed for a new animated film called Silver Circle that features a rebel group in the near future which mints silver coins in defiance of an even more aggressive Federal Reserve. More and more people are starting to watch the gold price as often as they watch the Dow.

Overall, this bodes well for our investments and for our country. If gold and silver are successfully re-monetized, our children may know a rate of economic growth not seen since our great-grandparents were in their prime. And prices may never return to today's levels again.

Regards,
Peter Schiff

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#37. To: Capitalist Eric, sneakypete (#36) (Edited)

petey has been to Russia a number of times on vacations, so you two have something in common.

Fred Mertz  posted on  2011-07-06   12:39:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: Fred Mertz, sneakypete (#37)

I'm sure sneaky would be confirm... generally speaking, girls in Russia are much smarter and tougher, than American men are used to...

Any man who forgets this pays a heavy price. :-@

LOL.

To LucysIDIOTmom, gobsheit, go56, skippy, bif and dummy-DwarF:

You would rather die than think.
And because you have made this choice, you shall pay the price for being a mindless member of the herd....
They will shear you, until you have nothing left for them to take.
And then they will take your life.
Such is the way of tyrannical governments, like the one you welcome with open arms.
You celebrate your own enslavement, and happily scratch and beg, for each crumb they throw you...

Capitalist Eric  posted on  2011-07-06   12:44:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: Capitalist Eric (#36)

Your statements- for the most part- are. mischaracterizations.

You said there was no such thing as mail order brides and I begged to defer. Not once did I accuse you of participating, yet you went right on the defensive.

mininggold  posted on  2011-07-06   12:44:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: mininggold (#39)

You said there was no such thing as mail order brides and I begged to defer.

You don't speak from a basis of experience and knowledge, while I do.

You make insinuations, based in ignorance.

I HAVE investigated such claims as you make, and found them to be gross misrepresentations.

You don't like to be called out as a liar? Then quit lying.

To LucysIDIOTmom, gobsheit, go56, skippy, bif and dummy-DwarF:

You would rather die than think.
And because you have made this choice, you shall pay the price for being a mindless member of the herd....
They will shear you, until you have nothing left for them to take.
And then they will take your life.
Such is the way of tyrannical governments, like the one you welcome with open arms.
You celebrate your own enslavement, and happily scratch and beg, for each crumb they throw you...

Capitalist Eric  posted on  2011-07-06   14:00:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: Capitalist Eric (#40) (Edited)

You don't speak from a basis of experience and knowledge, while I do.

You make insinuations, based in ignorance.

I HAVE investigated such claims as you make, and found them to be gross misrepresentations.

You don't like to be called out as a liar? Then quit lying.

I doubt you have the vast experience you claim in all the countries from which mail order brides can be obtained. I differed and I gave my rationale, and as usual you offer nothing but your arrogant edict and patented childish name calling. No wonder you had to find someone in desperate enough circumstances in life, to put up with your BS.

mininggold  posted on  2011-07-06   14:21:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: mininggold (#41)

Bonanza had a good mail order bride episode on that I've seen. Rather than a foreign woman it was an American woman from the east. I think it was Tom Boseley/Mr. C who was the nervous husband-to-be.

Fred Mertz  posted on  2011-07-06   14:29:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: mininggold (#39) (Edited)

Again, you reactionaries are living in the past.

Mail order brides existed in the 19th century when America was opening the west.

Modern Internet dating sites are not "mail order brides".


"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899

jwpegler  posted on  2011-07-06   14:39:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: jwpegler (#43)

Again, you reactionaries are living in the past.

Mail order brides existed in the 19th century when America was opening the west.

Modern Internet dating sites are not "mail order brides".

Yeah right. Please continue on with your obfuscation. Why are you guys so defensive?

mininggold  posted on  2011-07-06   14:47:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: jwpegler (#43)

Mail order brides existed in the 19th century when America was opening the west.

They are still around. The term still applies even if the means of communication have changed.

Ever hear of a one horse town?

Fred Mertz  posted on  2011-07-06   14:53:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: Fred Mertz (#42)

Bonanza had a good mail order bride episode on that I've seen. Rather than a foreign woman it was an American woman from the east. I think it was Tom Boseley/Mr. C who was the nervous husband-to-be.

I worked with a guy who went on vacation to the Philippines and came back viola! married with a cute wife who soon became his worst nightmare. He stood by her though when she needed 24 hour care and her relatives who loved to visit before she got sick couldn't seem to find the time afterward.

mininggold  posted on  2011-07-06   14:56:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#47. To: Fred Mertz (#45)

They are still around. The term still applies even if the means of communication have changed.

Ever hear of a one horse town?

All one has to do is do a mail order bride search and see all the sites from the various countries that pop up.

mininggold  posted on  2011-07-06   15:01:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: mininggold (#46)

A guy I know about two miles down the road did something similar. He claims to have had a long term e-mail relationship with this woman from the Philippines, 20 years younger than him.

He had her flown in on a Sunday and had a civil ceremony at his home on Wednesday, with a minor reception at the local tavern. They are still together and that is good.

Everyone, except jwpegler, refer to her as his mail order wife - not to his face, of course.

Fred Mertz  posted on  2011-07-06   15:03:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: Fred Mertz (#45)

No they are not. You can't show us one.


"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899

jwpegler  posted on  2011-07-06   15:04:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: jwpegler (#49)

No they are not. You can't show us one.

There are oodles of sites on the internet proudly proclaiming to offer "mail order brides".

mininggold  posted on  2011-07-06   15:06:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#51. To: mininggold (#50)

There are oodles of sites on the internet proudly proclaiming to offer "mail order brides".

http://www.singlebrides.com/ is one. Took all of 2 seconds to find it.

From their intro: "Welcome
Single Brides marriage agency provides mail order brides. Have you met a Ukrainian or Russian brides already? "

Skip Intro  posted on  2011-07-06   15:08:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#52. To: Fred Mertz (#48) (Edited)

I don't believe you.

Women from the third world cannot get visitors visas to the U.S.

A fiance visa takes over a year.

If you are already married it takes two years to bring your spouse to the U.S.

You cannot just fly someone in one Sunday.


"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899

jwpegler  posted on  2011-07-06   15:08:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#53. To: jwpegler (#49)

Okay, you've never hear of the colloquial one horse town - carry on.

You must be married to one of those mail order brides is my only conclusion.

Fred Mertz  posted on  2011-07-06   15:08:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#54. To: Fred Mertz (#53)

My only conclusion is that you are a big bull shitter


"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899

jwpegler  posted on  2011-07-06   15:11:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#55. To: Skip Intro, jwpegler (#51)

http://www.singlebrides.com/ is one.

Peglers probably now having doubts that he got the best deal.

mininggold  posted on  2011-07-06   15:12:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#56. To: jwpegler (#52) (Edited)

You cannot just fly someone in one Sunday.

That is what I saw my from vantage point. He likely worked out the details and money in advance, like you suggest. You seem to have a great deal of knowledge about it. Did you marry one?

Fred Mertz  posted on  2011-07-06   15:12:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#57. To: Fred Mertz (#53)

Okay, you've never hear of the colloquial one horse town - carry on.

You must be married to one of those mail order brides is my only conclusion.

Something tells me pegler's one of them foreigners. So he might have actually married a fellow countryman or woman.

mininggold  posted on  2011-07-06   15:14:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#58. To: jwpegler (#52)

I don't believe you.

Women from the third world cannot get visitors visas to the U.S.

Are you saying all those third world women in airports coming here on vacation don't actually exist?

mininggold  posted on  2011-07-06   15:18:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#59. To: mininggold (#55) (Edited)

Another friend of mine has a brother in PA that married a mail order bride from the Philippines. He was getting up there in age.

That same friend married a very pretty and nice woman from Honduras - he was stationed there during his Army years. No one would even think of referring to her as a mail order bride. I'm godfather to their daughter.

Fred Mertz  posted on  2011-07-06   15:18:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#60. To: jwpegler (#52)

A fiance visa takes over a year.

K-1 Fiancee Visa

K-1 Fiance Visa Definition

The Immigration and Nationality Act provides a nonimmigrant visa classification “K-183; for aliens coming to the United States to marry American citizens and reside here.

K-1 Fiance Visa APPROXIMATE PROCESSING TIME

3 to 6 months from initial filing to fiance’s arrival.

Skip Intro  posted on  2011-07-06   15:22:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#61. To: Skip Intro (#60)

Go ask any attorney who specializes in this. It takes over a year now.

That's the difference between googling something and having actual experience.


"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899

jwpegler  posted on  2011-07-06   15:31:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#62. To: Capitalist Eric (#0)

Historically, paying for items in silver or gold was actually quite common.

Yes,and the world was a MUCH less complex place back then. Most people didn't even have money or any need for money. They never traveled more than walking distance from their huts or caves,and they made or raised everything they wore or ate. Gold was for the aristocracy and the merchant class.

Ever tried to buy a tank of gas at a convenience store with a gold or silver bar? And if you think this would be possible how would you get your change? Would you take it in slim jims? Or would you accept the merchants scales as being accurate and let him shave slivers off your gold bar until he had the right amount down to the penny?

Imagine trying to pay for a breakfast biscuit at a McDonalds,and trusting your gold to a high school dropout that can't even read and needs pictures on the cash register keys to know what to ring up. Are you REALLY going to allow these people to shave slivers off your bar or pour gold dust out of your bag until they have the correct amount?

And even then,how will you know what the correct amount is in a post-apocalyptic world where governments have collapsed and there is no stable market or treasury? Even back in the days when people did trade in gold coins,the coins had an established weight in gold per coin because they were minted by a government that guaranteed them.

"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)

sneakypete  posted on  2011-07-06   15:42:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#63. To: jwpegler (#3)

My view is that the collapse of the dollar will result in a system of competing digital currencies, delivered through your cell phone, and backed by gold or some other commodity.

They will be debits and credits,and they will be backed by nothing at all other than the police state that will exist in a cashless society. Think "company town" from the 1920's and 30's,and apply it on a global scale.

The credits you earn can only be spent in the area where you live and work,and the special credits that can be spent anywhere will require special permits and account numbers.

"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)

sneakypete  posted on  2011-07-06   15:46:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#64. To: Skip Intro (#4)

Do he mean that privately minted coins are harder to liquidate than evil government ones?

Yes. Who would YOU trust to guarantee the purity,a established government,or Saul the pawnbroker?

"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)

sneakypete  posted on  2011-07-06   15:47:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#65. To: sneakypete (#62)

Historically, paying for items in silver or gold was actually quite common.

Yes,and the world was a MUCH less complex place back then. Most people didn't even have money or any need for money. They never traveled more than walking distance from their huts or caves

How does this jibe with the US minting and circulating silver coins up until 1964?

war has to do something for entertainment. The voices in his head aren't speaking to him and his imaginary friends have found reasons not to come over anymore.

Rudgear  posted on  2011-07-06   15:53:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#66. To: Godwinson (#13)

I find that con game so funny. It's like the right wing kooks selling their old cow for beans thinking they will turn into magic beans.

What's funny is you really do think that happens.

There is a reason you are a Dim,boy.

"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)

sneakypete  posted on  2011-07-06   15:56:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#67. To: mininggold (#18)

The gold run was part of the Hunt brother's fiasco

That was silver,not gold.

"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)

sneakypete  posted on  2011-07-06   15:59:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#68. To: A K A Stone, Godwinson (#23)

Did you by chance have a major head injury in your past? Maybe an auto accident or falling from a tall building on your head?

I think a tall building fell on his head.

The building didn't survive.

"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)

sneakypete  posted on  2011-07-06   16:01:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#69. To: Capitalist Eric (#36)

Oh, and there's one other aspect of the so-called "mail-order bride" propaganda... that somehow they're more docile or whatever.

LOL! That reminds me of the hatred spewed out by American women towards Asian women. According to these stereotypes,American men want Asian women because they are submissive and never speak back. That may be one of the funniest things I have ever heard in my life,and it's obvious that anybody that makes that claim has never lived in Asia and known Asians on a personal level. They damn sure have never ran into a pissed-off Asian woman shrieking at a pitch that will shatter glass in skyscrapers,and at a level that can be heard miles away.

It's a similar thing with the stereotypes about Russian women being mail-order brides that are either submissive,or whores looking for a free ticket to the US.

American men like them because for the most part they are not shrews looking to dominate their husbands. If fact,most I have met see themselves are partners to their husbands,and freely admit that men and women need each other and that both have roles to play in a family. If the man fails on his responsibility,he will quickly find out how "submissive" they are because they will jack his ass up.

The problem is with the American women,who tend to confuse not being argumentative or competitive with their husbands as being submissive to them.

"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)

sneakypete  posted on  2011-07-06   16:15:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#70. To: Capitalist Eric (#38)

I'm sure sneaky would be confirm... generally speaking, girls in Russia are much smarter and tougher, than American men are used to...

Any man who forgets this pays a heavy price. :-@

AMEN! That's one of the things I love most about them. They are smart enough to understand the way to get what they want is to act like women,not men. They use their femininity at home to get their way,and expect the man to be a man. The poor SOB who marries one and isn't willing to step up to the plate and be the public leader of the family lives in a living hell.

They do all this without EVER hiding their intellectual abilities. Don't try to bullshit one of them hoping she will let is slide because she WILL ask you for explanations and not accept anything at face value.

Of course,my opinions may be a little skewered because the Russian women I was friends with were professionals. One is a medical doctor with two areas of specialty,and another is a linguist that reads,writes,and speaks 5 different languages and was married to a professor that taught electrical engineering and design. He had never owned a gun in his life other than the pistol issued to him when he was a officer in the Red Army,but I have never met a man in my life crazier over guns than he was. He died last year,and I have pretty much lost contact with his wife since then. She got so depressed after his death she pretty much kept/keeps to herself.

Oddly enough,the same is true with another Russian woman friend of mine (computer nerd) that I hooked up with the American man she married. He died last year too,and she just about went nuts. She is living in LA if she is still living. The other woman is still living in Russia and has no interest in leaving. I even invited her and her husband to come to America and stay with me one summer,and neither had any interest in coming.

"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)

sneakypete  posted on  2011-07-06   16:27:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#71. To: mininggold (#39)

You said there was no such thing as mail order brides

There isn't and hasn't been since the 19th Century.

"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)

sneakypete  posted on  2011-07-06   16:29:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#72. To: mininggold (#41)

I doubt you have the vast experience you claim in all the countries from which mail order brides can be obtained.

I think you need to do some research on what the US Government requires before allowing a foreign women to come to the US as the LEGAL spouse of an American citizen. I know of a couple of cases and both times it took over a year with full documentation on how well and how long they had known each other,and thousands of dollars in fees.

I think the marriage agencies are probably more guilty of promoting this misconception than anyone else. They want it to look easy because they get rich selling tickets,shelter,visa services,etc,etc,etc. The more men they can get to buy their packages the more money they make.

"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)

sneakypete  posted on  2011-07-06   16:38:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#73. To: Fred Mertz (#45)

They are still around. The term still applies even if the means of communication have changed.

Ever hear of a one horse town?

Maybe if you are talking about an American woman from another town or state hook,but not when it comes to foreign women marrying for citizenship.

Or for foreign men marrying American women for US citizenship,as far as that goes.

"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)

sneakypete  posted on  2011-07-06   16:41:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#74. To: Fred Mertz (#48)

A guy I know about two miles down the road did something similar. He claims to have had a long term e-mail relationship with this woman from the Philippines, 20 years younger than him.

Maybe the rules are different for the Philippines than for Russia because the Philippines used to be a US protectorate?

"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)

sneakypete  posted on  2011-07-06   16:44:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#75. To: mininggold (#50)

There are oodles of sites on the internet proudly proclaiming to offer "mail order brides".

There are also oodles of sites on the internet offering you millions of dollars in commissions if you will help them smuggle cash out of their country.

Hey,if you can't trust the internet to be truthful,who CAN you trust?

"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)

sneakypete  posted on  2011-07-06   16:46:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#76. To: mininggold (#58)

Are you saying all those third world women in airports coming here on vacation don't actually exist?

Yes,they exist,but it is a LOT more complicated than you buying a ticket and getting on a plane to fly to Rome,for instance. IIRC,they have to have sponsor here (family member,etc) that will sign off on being responsible for them financially while they are here,and a bunch of other stuff,too.

Chances are most of the 3rd world women you see in US airports are coming to see relatives who are US citizens.

"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)

sneakypete  posted on  2011-07-06   16:49:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#77. To: sneakypete (#76)

IIRC,they have to have sponsor here (family member,etc) that will sign off on being responsible for them

It's often not harder that even that. The Consulate will them, "you can have the family member comehere." If they can't show that they are financially independent, it can be almost impossible in many cases to be granted a legal visa.

Now, I know Iā€™m not going to change the minds of any of the True Believersā€¦those who read all of Reverend Alā€™s sermons, and say things like, ā€œYou know, global warming can mean warmer OR colder, wetter OR drier, cloudier OR sunnier, windier OR calmer, ā€¦ā€. Can I get an ā€˜amenā€™??

no gnu taxes  posted on  2011-07-06   16:56:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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