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Title: Rise of the Barter Economy and Gold and Silver Currency
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article29066.html
Published: Jul 5, 2011
Author: Peter_Schiff
Post Date: 2011-07-05 14:37:04 by Capitalist Eric
Keywords: None
Views: 72762
Comments: 141

Imagine a day when you go to buy a quart of milk, ask the price, and the cashier says, "that'll be a tenth ounce silver." As the US dollar's decline accelerates, several efforts around the country are trying to make this vision a reality.

Historically, paying for items in silver or gold was actually quite common. We happen to live in an unusual time and place where generations have grown up trading exclusively in paper. While my parents still used dimes made of silver, we have now gone several decades with no precious metals in any of our official coinage. But this system of money by government fiat is unsustainable.

While the practice of bartering precious metals directly for goods and services has continued on a small-scale over the last few decades, the 2000s saw the beginning of organized efforts to revive gold and silver as money.

THE LIBERTY DOLLAR One such effort was spearheaded by an eccentric mintmaster from Hawaii named Bernard Von Nothaus. He called his project the Liberty Dollar, and it centered on privately minted gold and silver rounds as well as deposit certificates for precious metals held in his firm's vaults.

I had many reservations about how the project was implemented - coins were minted with a fixed US dollar amount at which they were supposed to circulate, the dollar amount was well above the spot price of the metal, and authorized "distributors" were allowed to pocket the difference (which often resulted in buyers paying far higher prices for their gold than what they would have paid had they simply bought, say, Canadian Maple Leafs instead) - but I believe Nothaus' idea was a good one, even if the product was over-priced. Tellingly, despite the obvious flaws, public participation grew steadily from 1998 until 2007, when federal agents raided the Liberty Dollar's offices on trumped-up charges of counterfeiting.

Really, they were charging him with competing with the US dollar's monopoly privileges by offering a better product. It's important to note that the case against Nothaus was built around his coins looking similar to official US coinage (though no one actually mistook Liberty Dollars for US currency), and not around encouraging people to use precious metals as circulating money.

DIGITAL GOLD Next came a crop of internet-based currencies backed by gold and silver. Most prominent among them are eGold and GoldMoney. Both were designed to allow customers to open online accounts that were valued in, and backed by, gold and silver bullion.

eGold was perhaps the better known of the two until it, too, was shut down by the US government on charges of money laundering. eGold was positioned more as an online payment system than a means of holding bullion. Due to the anonymous nature of the transactions - it was akin to spending cash - the authorities alleged that it was being used by criminal enterprises to funnel illegal funds. But mostly it was being used by regular people to begin saving and trading in money that holds its value. eGold had a transparent system of annual audits and live transaction screening by any user to keep the system honest. It, too, was growing robustly, and was putting up strong competition against PayPal until the authorities intervened.

GoldMoney, founded by my friend James Turk, has remained in operation by keeping its principal operations overseas and by cooperating fully with onerous US financial regulations. It offers similar services to eGold, but with an emphasis on long-term storage. GoldMoney improves upon traditional storage by locating offshore, offering real-time online account access, and providing extra liquidity. These services do come at a cost, however. Still, over the course of the last decade, GoldMoney has swelled to over $2 billion in assets. Clearly, many people want to trade gold and silver over US dollars.

Digital gold is a niche service, but I think the public's rapid embrace of these projects - none older than ten years - shows that investors are viewing gold and silver as more than mere commodities, but once again seeing them as money. This could signal a paradigm shift back to tradition, which is good news for any precious metals holder.

STRAIGHT UP BARTER While digital currencies are neat, in practical terms, nothing beats the resilience of traditional barter of bullion for goods and services. If you actually own the physical gold and silver that you intend to save or trade, then you can be sure it will be there until you're ready to sell. You don't have to trust anyone except yourself.

In that vein, several efforts have popped up around the country to simply get people trading gold and silver rather than dollars. Since the transactions involved are usually small, such as buying lunch at a local diner, silver is typically the metal of choice.

There are several hotspots for this sort of activity.

Philadelphia has one group, DelValley Silver, that has fostered a local barter market there by encouraging merchants to accept silver coins in addition to dollars. DelValley is also a silver dealer, but they sell privately minted rounds, which can be harder to liquidate than well-known coins like the American Gold Eagle and Canadian Maple Leaf.

Meanwhile, in New Hampshire, many merchants associated with the Free State Project have begun accepting gold and silver at their businesses. Innovation abounds here and the practice of encasing small amounts of silver in laminated cards seems to be the most successful.

Shire Silver encloses silver and gold wire in their cards and measures them in terms of grams. It's much easier to trade a flat, plastic card containing a gram of silver than to carry around a 1 oz coin. However, even their website will admit that the premium on such a small amount of silver makes it less than ideal for investment purposes. Of course, when you're ready to barter, they'll be happy to take your 1 oz rounds in return for some Shire Silver. And that Shire Silver is being accepted by more and more merchants across New Hampshire and beyond.

Another variation, from a group based in Phoenix, Arizona, encloses a pre-1965 US dime inside the laminated card. Before '65, every dime contained 90% silver, making them worth about $2.50 each in today's debased dollars. That's why you won't find any pre-'65 dimes in your change from the grocery store. However, one fellow had the clever idea of putting them in these cards so they could trade at their silver value without getting mixed in with the worthless dimes we carry around today. The same group even created a free iPhone app that translates US dollar prices into various amounts of silver (more info here).

While I'll still be selling regular old bullion coins and bars at Euro Pacific Precious Metals, because these are the best way to invest in physical precious metals, I am energized by these efforts. The great thing about holding and bartering physical precious metals is that there is no central company running the operations, like with the digital gold currencies, and therefore there's no single person the government can go after.

(My new offshore bank, Euro Pacific Bank, Ltd., will soon be offering Visa-branded debit cards back by individual holdings of gold or silver. Euro Pacific Bank customers will be able to purchase gold from the bank, have it stored, and then access their holdings directly using their Visa cards to either make purchases though merchants or withdraw cash from banks and ATMs. Unfortunately, due to the reasons described above, I cannot offer this service to US customers. For more information about my offshore brokerage and banking companies, please visit www.europacintl.com.)

THE WRITING IS ON THE WALL Besides these grassroots efforts at building barter communities, I'm seeing a cultural shift in favor of precious metals. Utah recently passed a law establishing gold and silver as legal tender and abolishing state capital gains taxes on their appreciation. I was interviewed for a new animated film called Silver Circle that features a rebel group in the near future which mints silver coins in defiance of an even more aggressive Federal Reserve. More and more people are starting to watch the gold price as often as they watch the Dow.

Overall, this bodes well for our investments and for our country. If gold and silver are successfully re-monetized, our children may know a rate of economic growth not seen since our great-grandparents were in their prime. And prices may never return to today's levels again.

Regards,
Peter Schiff

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 109.

#4. To: Capitalist Eric (#0)

DelValley is also a silver dealer, but they sell privately minted rounds, which can be harder to liquidate than well-known coins like the American Gold Eagle and Canadian Maple Leaf.

Do he mean that privately minted coins are harder to liquidate than evil government ones?

Skip Intro  posted on  2011-07-05   14:53:53 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: Skip Intro (#4)

Do he mean that privately minted coins are harder to liquidate than evil government ones?

Currently, the answer to that would be "yes."

Such coins carry not only bullion value, but numismatic value, and are widely regarded throughout the world as "good" coins, i.e., the standard by which other coin values are measured... it's a wierd thing, on coin values.

Interestingly, China has gotten into the act, counterfeiting silver Eagles. Because the price of "numismatic" coins (high collector value) are far in excess of the cost of minting, China is very busy fleecing the collectors of numismatics.

OTOH, because the price of silver rounds from various mints is relatively low, there's not enough profit margin in it for Chinese fakes to be profitable. So I buy silver rounds... I don't give a rats ass about "collector" value, I buy bullion for its intrinsic value.

I think no more of numismatics than I do of collecting stamps, or baseball cards.

When I was in Russia two months ago, I gave my father-in-law a silver round, from a well-respected mint here in the USA. A few days later, he gave me a 1923 Russian ruble... 18g of silver in it. The round I gave him was worth maybe $40, but the collector value made the ruble he gave me worth ~$130.

Go figure.

Capitalist Eric  posted on  2011-07-05   20:25:27 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: Capitalist Eric (#17)

When I was in Russia two months ago, I gave my father-in-law a silver round...

Is your wife one of those mail-order brides? A friend of mine went over there about 5 years ago and came very close to marrying one - she was a knockout.

Fred Mertz  posted on  2011-07-06   9:00:44 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: Fred Mertz (#20)

She's Russian.

There's no such thing as a "mail-order bride." That's a term the feminists made up, to twist reality.

Fact of the matter is, she had a very good position, was making excellent money, and had a higher net value (by far) than I. She did her best, to convince me to move to Russia.

After I finish my doctorate, we'll see.

Capitalist Eric  posted on  2011-07-06   11:43:43 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: Capitalist Eric (#32)

Thanks for the clarification.

Fred Mertz  posted on  2011-07-06   11:46:44 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: Fred Mertz (#33) (Edited)

Thanks for the clarification.

He's BSing as usual. There are tours abroad exploiting legal loopholes where the participants pick the girl of their dreams out of a lineup, then a scenario is created where they appear to meet randomly and spend a few hours getting acquainted, so the perps can legally declare the expressed purpose of their trip abroad wasn't for finding a bride.

But I guess technically he's correct, no brides legally are mailed to the US.

mininggold  posted on  2011-07-06   11:56:37 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: mininggold, Fred Mertz (#34)

He's BSing as usual.

For what purpose? I have no reason to lie, yet you leftists insist that I do.

There are tours abroad exploiting legal loopholes where the participants pick the girl of their dreams out of a lineup, then a scenario is created where they appear to meet randomly and spend a few hours getting acquainted, so the perps can legally declare the expressed purpose of their trip abroad wasn't for finding a bride.

There was a time when that was true... about 15 years ago. The negative publicity, plus a Russian girl who came to America and was murdered by her new American "husband" caused the government to get strict on immigration laws, especially with regard to K-1 or K-3 visas.

It is a very long and frustrating process. And one thing you'll never admit to- it's very expensive.

IF a guy chose to go on one of those "tours," where basically an agency would introduce him to young and eligible women, the probabilities of finding an "ultra-Natasha," i.e., a gold-digger, are pretty high. The tours basically are a way for agencies to separate fools from their money, while having young girls (who for the most part only want to leave the Hell-hole they're in) act interested.

In my case, when I take vacation, I prefer to go off the beaten path. I've never been to Hawaii, but I've been to Romania a bunch of times. Same with Ireland. My last major vacation, I decided to go to Russia...

I talk with people from all over the world, so I had a standing invitation to Russia... took my cameras, had an itinerary which started in Rostov-On-Don, then Moscow, then St.Petersberg. I had friends at each location, waiting for me to show up.

But I met this nice girl in Rostov... and never made it to Moscow.

We've been married just over five years, and have two daughters.

Oh, and there's one other aspect of the so-called "mail-order bride" propaganda... that somehow they're more docile or whatever. The fact is, my wife is incredibly tough, and savvy. Plus, she can stretch a penny until it's molecule-thin. I've learned a lot from her... and continue to do so.

Your statements- for the most part- are. mischaracterizations.

Capitalist Eric  posted on  2011-07-06   12:35:14 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: Capitalist Eric (#36)

Your statements- for the most part- are. mischaracterizations.

You said there was no such thing as mail order brides and I begged to defer. Not once did I accuse you of participating, yet you went right on the defensive.

mininggold  posted on  2011-07-06   12:44:40 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: mininggold (#39) (Edited)

Again, you reactionaries are living in the past.

Mail order brides existed in the 19th century when America was opening the west.

Modern Internet dating sites are not "mail order brides".

jwpegler  posted on  2011-07-06   14:39:01 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: jwpegler (#43)

Mail order brides existed in the 19th century when America was opening the west.

They are still around. The term still applies even if the means of communication have changed.

Ever hear of a one horse town?

Fred Mertz  posted on  2011-07-06   14:53:49 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#73. To: Fred Mertz (#45)

They are still around. The term still applies even if the means of communication have changed.

Ever hear of a one horse town?

Maybe if you are talking about an American woman from another town or state hook,but not when it comes to foreign women marrying for citizenship.

Or for foreign men marrying American women for US citizenship,as far as that goes.

sneakypete  posted on  2011-07-06   16:41:37 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#87. To: sneakypete (#73)

Ever hear of a one horse town?

This was an example of a colloquialism still in use today from the old days.

Just like mail order brides are still out there today, usually from foreign countries.

It's a phrase, not a technical thing. Capitalist Eric can likely explain it to you.

Fred Mertz  posted on  2011-07-06   23:00:21 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#89. To: Fred Mertz (#87) (Edited)

s a phrase, not a technical thing. Capitalist Eric can likely explain it to you.

LOL One horse town..usually a town most people would rather not be in.

But between SP and Erica they'll used up the rest of the bandwidth posting their superior wisdom and still say nothing.

Sorry about your dog. You sound like a thoughtful owner and she was lucky to have you.

mininggold  posted on  2011-07-06   23:13:22 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#106. To: mininggold, sneakypete, jwpegler, lucysmom, mininggold (#89)

mininggold: But between SP and Erica they'll used up the rest of the bandwidth posting their superior wisdom and still say nothing.

Between pegler, sneakypete and myself, we've explained a lot about the subject you're knee-jerking about. That you refuse to accept those explanations is strictly your problem.

Fred Mertz to JWPegler: That is what I saw my from vantage point. He likely worked out the details and money in advance, like you suggest. You seem to have a great deal of knowledge about it. Did you marry one?

Me: Translation: Ok, I was talking out my ass. YOU must be married to one of them damned Afuriners!" Sad. Better to admit you don't know, and have done with it.

Fred Mertz: No wonder every one thinks you're an a-hole. Piss off and I'm glad you and your mail-order bride's arrangement worked out so far.

Equally sad. You talk out your ass, on a subject where your only source of information is the MSM, and make yourself look like an idiot. You get caught, and try to cover that by insulting the person, instead of having any sense of class, and simply bowing out of the discussion. Tacky. When I point this out to you, then I am the ass-hole? LOL. Get OVER yourself, grandpa. Your views- when based on the MSM propaganda- are worth a squirt of warm piss. Oh, and your continued insults after the fact, simply reconfirm that YOU are the ass-hole.

LucysIDIOTmom: You really are a very angry man.

Typical response from a leftist sheeple. Oh, you're suffering from something... It's a sad attempt to minimize the facts of what I've posted. To actually accept such facts, would force you to consider that the truth may not be what you were brainwashed to think.

And I'm not angry. As my mother has stated, I've "no tolerance of fools."

Capitalist Eric: I recommend to all my friends, to look for a woman outside the Western hemisphere.

Fred Mertz: Are you suggesting that I should seek a mail-order bride?

Where did I ever suggest you were my friend?

mininggold: The gold run was part of the Hunt brother's fiasco
sneakypete: That was silver,not gold.
minggold: Look it up doofus.

From wikipedia: (Redirected from Hunt brothers)

Nelson Bunker Hunt (born February 22, 1926) is an American oil company executive. He is best known as a former billionaire whose fortune collapsed after he and his brother William Herbert Hunt tried but failed to corner the world market in silver.

ming, is there anything that you don't get wrong?

Fred Mertz: ...mail order brides are still out there today, usually from foreign countries. It's a phrase, not a technical thing.

Bullshit. After having the facts presented to you, you insist on using "a phrase" meant to malign any who would reject American women. This "phrase," BTW, was pushed by the feminist organizations, who saw such ideas as a threat to their primacy. The term was a sound-bite description, which told nothing of the truth, but was easily accepted by the stupid and ignorant public.

Capitalist Eric  posted on  2011-07-07   12:12:20 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#107. To: Capitalist Eric (#106)

Blah blah blah

I'm not wading through your Asperger's type presentation, look up Hunt brothers and gold for a start.

mininggold  posted on  2011-07-07   12:15:15 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#108. To: mininggold (#107)

Blah blah blah I'm not wading through your Asperger's type presentation,

No, I'm sure FACTS are too difficult for a stupid bitch like you to deal with.

look up Hunt brothers and gold for a start.

Oh, like HERE?

The Hunt Brothers and the Silver Bubble
Brian Trumbore
President/Editor, StocksandNews.com

In 1973, the Hunt family of Texas, possibly the richest family in America at the time, decided to buy precious metals as a hedge against inflation. Gold could not be held by private citizens at that time, so the Hunts began to buy silver in enormous quantity.

In 1979 the sons of patriarch H.L. Hunt, Nelson Bunker and William Herbert, together with some wealthy Arabs, formed a silver pool. In a short period of time they had amassed more than 200 million ounces of silver, equivalent to half the world's deliverable supply.

When the Hunt's had begun accumulating silver back in 1973 the price was in the $1.95 / ounce range. Early in '79, the price was about $5. Late '79 / early '80 the price was in the $50's, peaking at $54.

Once the silver market was cornered, outsiders joined the chase but a combination of changed trading rules on the New York Metals Market (COMEX) and the intervention of the Federal Reserve put an end to the game. The price began to slide, culminating in a 50% one-day decline on March 27, 1980 as the price plummeted from $21.62 to $10.80.

The collapse of the silver market meant countless losses for speculators. The Hunt brothers declared bankruptcy. By 1987 their liabilities had grown to nearly $2.5 billion against assets of $1.5 billion. In August of 1988 the Hunts were convicted of conspiring to manipulate the market.

One other experience in the silver bubble worth noting, according to author Edward Chancellor ("Devil Take the Hindmost"), is the experience of an official at the Peruvian Ministry of Commerce, employed to hedge his country's silver production, who lost $80 million by illicitly selling silver short. Said Chancellor, "Although a relatively small sum for a sovereign nation, it was an omen: the 'rogue trader' had appeared on the modern financial scene." The stock market had its own troubles during the rise and fall of silver. The Dow Jones peaked on February 13, 1980 at 903.84. The day of the collapse, March 27th, the Dow closed at 759.98, a decline of 16% in just 6 weeks. [However, intraday, the loss between the 2/13 high of 918.17 and the 3/27 intraday low of 729.95 was actually 20%.]

For many traders the collapse in silver was the final straw for a stock market already under siege from worries as diverse as the Iranian hostage crisis, the Russian invasion of Afghanistan and soaring interest rates. [The consumer price index climbed at a 13% rate for 1979. The prime lending rate hit 22% in early 1980]. But by the year's end, the whole decline was almost forgotten. The Dow ended the year at 963.99, thanks in large part to the euphoria over the election of Ronald Reagan.

Capitalist Eric  posted on  2011-07-07   14:56:36 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#109. To: Capitalist Eric (#108) (Edited)

Oh, like HERE?

I guess all those 800 dollar an ounce Kruggerrands and Maple leafs sold by the hundreds of thousands in the early eighties were just a coincidence since the price of gold never correlates to the price of silver in your world. You are sure stupid for being a capitalist, since you seem so totally unaware of 'cause and effect'. Why do you think the US Mint started selling gold coins, dummy?

mininggold  posted on  2011-07-07   15:03:46 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 109.

#110. To: mininggold, sneakypete (#109) (Edited)

I guess all those 800 dollar an ounce Kruggerrands and Maple leafs sold by the hundreds of thousands in the early eighties were just a coincidence...

A completely irrelevant response. The Hunt brothers were pretty-much done by the end of 1980.

When caught in another lie, you run straight to the Rules of Disinformation:

#4. Use a straw man. Find or create a seeming element of your opponent’s argument which you can easily knock down to make yourself look good and the opponent to look bad. Either make up an issue you may safely imply exists based on your interpretation of the opponent/opponent arguments/situation, or select the weakest aspect of the weakest charges. Amplify their significance and destroy them in a way which appears to debunk all the charges, real and fabricated alike, while actually avoiding discussion of the real issues.

#9. Play Dumb. No matter what evidence or logical argument is offered, avoid discussing issues with denial they have any credibility, make any sense, provide any proof, contain or make a point, have logic, or support a conclusion. Mix well for maximum effect.

#13. Alice in Wonderland Logic. Avoid discussion of the issues by reasoning backwards with an apparent deductive logic in a way that forbears any actual material fact.

20. False evidence. Whenever possible, introduce new facts or clues designed and manufactured to conflict with opponent presentations as useful tools to neutralize sensitive issues or impede resolution. This works best when the crime was designed with contingencies for the purpose, and the facts cannot be easily separated from the fabrications.

You're an expert on the "play dumb" strategies, though it's starting to look like you don't "play" at it...

Thanks for entertaining me. Your wild attempts to cover your stupidity, once again, have failed.

*PING*, Sneaky... I thought you might enjoy seeing the bimbo put in her place- again.

Capitalist Eric  posted on  2011-07-07 18:03:21 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 109.

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