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Title: A Political Scientist Who Does Great Economics
Source:
Forbes
URL Source: http://www.forbes.com/2009/10/12/ec ... butors-thomas-c-schelling.html
Published: Oct 12, 2009
Author: Thomas C. Schelling
Post Date: 2011-07-01 01:43:27 by lucysmom
Keywords: Social Sciences
Views: 27249
Comments: 54
On the selection of Elinor Ostrom for the Frank E. Seidman Distinguished Award in Political Economy in 1997, I was invited to the award ceremony to say a few words. A colleague asked me who the recipient was, and I said "Elinor Ostrom."
Ostrom pioneered the study of informal, non-governmental institutions that people invent to ration their use of the "commons," even in asymmetrical situations like upstream versus downstream occupants of a river bank. What is known as the "free rider" (non-cooperator) problem has found a number of solutions, voluntarily adopted, in a variety of cultures and environments. Elinor Ostrom "discovered" this subject and revealed it to us with examples ranging from the simple to the sophisticated. The Nobel prizes are intended to honor not lifetime achievement but specific discoveries or inventions. Elinor Ostrom is a perfect example.
It has been remarked that she is the first woman to be awarded the prize in economic sciences. (Several women in other disciplines were awarded Nobels this year.) She is also the first political scientist, symbolizing that you don't need a Ph.D. from an economics department to do work that advances economic "sciences." Daniel Kahneman, who with Amos Tversky (deceased) pioneered what is now called "behavioral economics," is a psychologist at Princeton who received the Nobel recently.
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I tell him that all the time...as he's buying me a double cut porterhouse...
America...My Kind Of Place...
"I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..."
--GW Bush
"THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!"
--Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere"
I lurk to see if someone other than Myst or Pookie posts anything...
#16. To: war (#15)
I tell him that all the time...as he's buying me a double cut porterhouse...
Every time I run across one of them shows, I shall think of you eating your steak.
Von Mises associates any Government involvement in markets as "Socialism" , to mislead people into thinking Government is the enemy , when infact empire is the enemy and empire is Privatized.
#17. To: lucysmom (#16)
Kewel!!!
America...My Kind Of Place...
"I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..."
--GW Bush
"THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!"
--Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere"
I lurk to see if someone other than Myst or Pookie posts anything...
#18. To: lucysmom (#12)
Your children will be seeing perpetual war as a result. That's Political Economics.It is an end to which political science can be put, but it is not political economics which is the study of what is and how it works - sort of like what the study of physics is to "The Bomb".
Not clear.
What is clear is that the Bottom 80% have been systematically stolen from, and placed hoplessly in debt by a crony capitalist ponzi scheme.
And Political Economics trumps PoliSci everytime. Which is why the Top 50 000 are desperate not to offer degrees in it.
"The stock market is up 100 percent from the lows reached in 2009 yet home prices have made new cycle lows. So you have to ask, what were those bailouts for in the first place? Just look above and you get a better sense. You will also have to remind yourself that a large percentage of financial wealth is aggregated in the hands of 1 percent of the population. This incredible income inequality rivals that of the 1920s. The trend of income inequality is only increasing:
look-at-the-wealth-gap-grow
#19. To: mcgowanjm (#18)
People have been screwing each other over since the garden of eden - political science isn't to blame for that.
Von Mises associates any Government involvement in markets as "Socialism" , to mislead people into thinking Government is the enemy , when infact empire is the enemy and empire is Privatized.
#20. To: lucysmom (#6)
labor's right to organize for higher wages, better working conditions, and more benefits
Lefty Labor proved too greedy.
At least the Right works to satisfy their greed...the Left's greed is aimed at other's work.
#21. To: lucysmom (#19)
People have been screwing each other over since the garden of eden - political science isn't to blame for that.
And having tons of fun doin' it. 8D
That ain't the problem. The problem is thinking they're somehow different from yeast and that their Great White Cloud Father will forgive them (she will. that's her job;) and give them more to destroy ( she's all done with that one;).
Time's up...
#22. To: socalv8 (#20)
Lefty Labor proved too greedy.
How many employees would it take to match the combined compensation of the top 209 CEOs?
Answer, 102,000.
www.bloomberg.com/news/20...-s-jobs-afl-cio-says.html
But for you, it is labor that is too greedy - interesting.
Why do you hate productive American workers?
Von Mises associates any Government involvement in markets as "Socialism" , to mislead people into thinking Government is the enemy , when infact empire is the enemy and empire is Privatized.
#23. To: lucysmom (#22)
Why do you hate productive American workers?
His oil company employer tells him what to think?
#24. To: lucysmom (#22)
Why do you hate productive American workers?
You must be referring to Non-union workers....
When asked by a Liberal what I bought my Granddaughter for her 1st birthday I replied, "MORE AMMUNITION"!!!!
#25. To: mininggold (#23)
His oil company employer tells him what to think?
According to the theory of cognitive dissonance that either makes him a well paid lackey or a brain-washed pawn.
Von Mises associates any Government involvement in markets as "Socialism" , to mislead people into thinking Government is the enemy , when infact empire is the enemy and empire is Privatized.
#26. To: CZ82 (#24)
You must be referring to Non-union workers....
Nope. Only some one who wishes to see a docile working class would say that.
Von Mises associates any Government involvement in markets as "Socialism" , to mislead people into thinking Government is the enemy , when infact empire is the enemy and empire is Privatized.
#27. To: lucysmom (#25)
According to the theory of cognitive dissonance that either makes him a well paid lackey or a brain-washed pawn.
I doubt he would have been in favor of the First Transcontinental being built either.
#28. To: mininggold (#27)
I doubt he would have been in favor of the First Transcontinental being built either.
Any way you look at it, oil is an old technology.
Von Mises associates any Government involvement in markets as "Socialism" , to mislead people into thinking Government is the enemy , when infact empire is the enemy and empire is Privatized.
#29. To: lucysmom (#28)
Any way you look at it, oil is an old technology.
So are wheels. What is your point?
#30. To: lucysmom (#26)
You must be referring to Non-union workers....Nope. Only some one who wishes to see a docile working class would say that.
No I prefer to see a productive working class, "MOST" union members just aren't ... takes 4 people to do 1 persons job..... and whine their asses off!!!
It makes life much easier going someplace that requires "good" customer service if the workers there are smart/productive....
When asked by a Liberal what I bought my Granddaughter for her 1st birthday I replied, "MORE AMMUNITION"!!!!
#31. To: CZ82 (#30)
No I prefer to see a productive working class, "MOST" union members just aren't ... takes 4 people to do 1 persons job..... and whine their asses off!!!
My father was a union member.
Von Mises associates any Government involvement in markets as "Socialism" , to mislead people into thinking Government is the enemy , when infact empire is the enemy and empire is Privatized.
#32. To: lucysmom (#31)
My father was a union member.
So was my dad, (Civil Service) two of my uncles, ( 1-GM and 1 state) all of the civilians who I supervised when I was in the military, and now me (private)... Seems to me you said he was a janitor???
I've seen all of the "different" (public/private/federal) unions over the years and know how they operate.... "MOST" of them are inefficient and whiny.... the only ones I've seen that are any good (private) are the ones who have to be "PRODUCTIVE" to keep their jobs.....
Our latest contract we signed (May 11) has "NO" pay raises in it for the next 3 years... Why??? Because that is what the market will bear right now, why demand a raise so you can put yourself out of work..... In fact we all took a .20 cents per hour deduction from our base pay to put into our retirement fund... The balance was getting low from a lot of construction members being unemployed that last 2-1/2 years..... On top of that the amount of "HOURS" worked per month has fallen %50 in the last 10 years.... Ohio has lost over 500,000 jobs since 2000 and a good bit of them were union..... Ask all of the unemployed GM people if they are happy with their union!!!!! Don't be surprised if you hear a lot of 4 letter words from them about their bosses... Ask a private union guy what he thinks about being unemployed and he will cuss the Politicians up one side and down the other!!!!!
When asked by a Liberal what I bought my Granddaughter for her 1st birthday I replied, "MORE AMMUNITION"!!!!
#33. To: A K A Stone (#29)
What is your point?
That we should have been investing in transformational technologies like yesterday.
Von Mises associates any Government involvement in markets as "Socialism" , to mislead people into thinking Government is the enemy , when infact empire is the enemy and empire is Privatized.
#34. To: CZ82 (#32)
Seems to me you said he was a janitor???
Nope, that was a friend's father.
I've seen all of the "different" (public/private/federal) unions over the years and know how they operate.... "MOST" of them are inefficient and whiny....
My experience has been exactly the opposite. Think about it - if government pays as well as youse guys seem to think it does, with better benefits and job security than the private sector, then government is able to attract and retain better employees.
Ask a private union guy what he thinks about being unemployed and he will cuss the Politicians up one side and down the other!!!!!
They should be going after the bankers with pitch forks - they're the guys that inflated the bubble and profited when it popped.
Von Mises associates any Government involvement in markets as "Socialism" , to mislead people into thinking Government is the enemy , when infact empire is the enemy and empire is Privatized.
#35. To: lucysmom (#34)
My experience has been exactly the opposite. Think about it - if government pays as well as youse guys seem to think it does, with better benefits and job security than the private sector, then government is able to attract and retain better employees.
Some jobs the federal government pays better, in other jobs the private sector pays better.... Take my job for instance I get paid to the tune of $4.00 to $13.50 an hr "better" than Government employees with the same job..... (And the private sector guys make about what I make, "If they have the knowledge")...
It didn't used to be that way until about 5-6 years ago... The government decided their employees were being paid too much, and made changes to the pay structure... All new employees were hired in at a much lower starting wage than was traditional, and the top earners were "frozen in pay" (no raises whatsoever) until they retire (which could be 10-15 years).... And the newbys are frozen in "grade" until the older guys retire, hence less opportunity for wage and grade increases..... It used to be you could go from bottom grade to top grade in about 10 years, now maybe you never get there.....
And the biggest kicker to all of this is now the government has to Sub-contract to guys like me, because the ones they employ (are not the best and brightest) can't do what I do because they don't know what I know..... SO.... now we're back to paying "TWICE" for services rendered!!!!! In fact to save a few dollars per hr in wages, now they pay me over $80 an hour to come in and do the same thing!!!!!(AS I said earlier Inefficient and you can add stupid to the mix)!!!
The biggest draw to working for the government is "Phuck off" time, they get about double the paid vacation and 4 times the sick leave..... Pensions are about the same.... So it depends on your situation as to what you want, how productive your are, how smart you are and what part of the country you live in as to which job opportunity makes the most sense for you......
When asked by a Liberal what I bought my Granddaughter for her 1st birthday I replied, "MORE AMMUNITION"!!!!
#36. To: lucysmom (#34)
Ask a private union guy what he thinks about being unemployed and he will cuss the Politicians up one side and down the other!!!!!
They should be going after the bankers with pitch forks - they're the guys that inflated the bubble and profited when it popped
They know who crawled into bed with the bankers and forced them to create this mess for political and monetary gain.......
When asked by a Liberal what I bought my Granddaughter for her 1st birthday I replied, "MORE AMMUNITION"!!!!
#37. To: CZ82 (#35)
I do believe you've just proved my point - you get what you pay for.
Von Mises associates any Government involvement in markets as "Socialism" , to mislead people into thinking Government is the enemy , when infact empire is the enemy and empire is Privatized.
#38. To: lucysmom (#37)
I do believe you've just proved my point - you get what you pay for.
Now the state and local governments haven't made any pay scale changes, and the same set of circumstances still exist there..... They are overpaying their employees and still having to sub-contract to me..... Do I need to add in the teachers to this mix?????? The USA used to be in the top 3 of education level in the world, now we are somewhere around #20...... Why is that?????
Which leads us back to why the taxpayers are pissed off about how much some of these employees are getting paid, for what they get out of them..... and are supportive of the union collective bargaining busting legislature.....
And I proved my point that not all union employees are the best and brightest, especially the government types!!!! But then again I could show you how some private sector union people aren't the best and brightest either...... You have to look no farther than GM...... paying people $30 an hr to do a job that has only a $10 per hr skillset...... So you can blame them for making you new car cost about double what it's actually worth!!!!!!!! Which translates to higher cost of living (COL) for "everybody" and your dollar doesn't go quite as far...... Hence the large amount of people in this country who are living below the poverty line instead of above it...... Which leads back to having to pay Welfare to those people and issue them food stamps.....
We can do without some unions and the country would be better off for it......
When asked by a Liberal what I bought my Granddaughter for her 1st birthday I replied, "MORE AMMUNITION"!!!!
#39. To: CZ82 (#38)
And I proved my point that not all union employees are the best and brightest, especially the government types!!!!
I didn't say they were.
You have to look no farther than GM...... paying people $30 an hr to do a job that has only a $10 per hr skillset.....
I once worked for a company that determined the skill set for a particular job was worth minimum wage. Most new hires stuck around only as long as it took them to find a better job. Lots of costly mistakes were made because employees weren't around long enough to move beyond the training phase.
The company owner determined that workers were lazy and stupid - he whined "they say unemployment is high and we can't get people to work here."
So you can blame them for making you new car cost about double what it's actually worth!!!!!!!!
A car is worth exactly what some one is willing to pay for it. period!
Von Mises associates any Government involvement in markets as "Socialism" , to mislead people into thinking Government is the enemy , when infact empire is the enemy and empire is Privatized.
#40. To: CZ82 (#38)
The USA used to be in the top 3 of education level in the world, now we are somewhere around #20...... Why is that?????
A lot of it is due to the rest of the world catching up, but I can't believe we ever were in the top three. Most of the european countries have provided a better education especially in the languages, history and classics since the late forties. I will agree though that we educated more students.
#41. To: lucysmom (#39)
So you can blame them for making you new car cost about double what it's actually worth!!!!!!!!
A car is worth exactly what some one is willing to pay for it. period!
That's why I don't buy new cars anymore, just used..... And I won't buy GM or Chrysler.....
Why do you think we had Cash for Clunkers, to get those good used cars off the market and try to force some people to buy new even when they couldn't afford it... Nice little socialist/union program.......
When asked by a Liberal what I bought my Granddaughter for her 1st birthday I replied, "MORE AMMUNITION"!!!!
#42. To: lucysmom (#39)
You have to look no farther than GM...... paying people $30 an hr to do a job that has only a $10 per hr skillset.....
I once worked for a company that determined the skill set for a particular job was worth minimum wage. Most new hires stuck around only as long as it took them to find a better job. Lots of costly mistakes were made because employees weren't around long enough to move beyond the training phase.
The company owner determined that workers were lazy and stupid - he whined "they say unemployment is high and we can't get people to work here."
The wage scale isn't always fair, some get paid too much, some get paid not enough and some get paid what they are worth......
Let me guess that guy isn't in business anymore?????
When asked by a Liberal what I bought my Granddaughter for her 1st birthday I replied, "MORE AMMUNITION"!!!!
#43. To: lucysmom (#39)
You have to look no farther than GM...... paying people $30 an hr to do a job that has only a $10 per hr skillset.....
I once worked for a company that determined the skill set for a particular job was worth minimum wage. Most new hires stuck around only as long as it took them to find a better job. Lots of costly mistakes were made because employees weren't around long enough to move beyond the training phase.
The company owner determined that workers were lazy and stupid - he whined "they say unemployment is high and we can't get people to work here."
The way I look at it is you should get paid commensurate with your skillset.... You don't know shit, you don't get paid shit and vice versa..... Also it should depend on working conditions, too hot, too cold, physical, non-physical, cushy office environment, shitty mechanical room environment ..etc....etc......
If you don't know shit then it's either your teachers fault because they taught you only enough to be a ditch digger/factory worker, or it's yours because you didn't bother to learn what little the teachers tried to teach you and expanded on that yourself, or you didn't go to a Technical school and learn a trade, or you paid way to much attention to the Socialist agenda your college Professor was teaching...
And if you do have a good skillset then that's because you wanted to have one, you perservered, you paid your dues you rose up over the socialist agenda and should be paid accordingly....
Lazy=no pay, productive=pay checks.......... plain, pure and simple......
When asked by a Liberal what I bought my Granddaughter for her 1st birthday I replied, "MORE AMMUNITION"!!!!
#44. To: CZ82 (#42)
Let me guess that guy isn't in business anymore?????
Just checked, 40 years later and the company still exists. No doubt ownership has changed though.
Von Mises associates any Government involvement in markets as "Socialism" , to mislead people into thinking Government is the enemy , when infact empire is the enemy and empire is Privatized.
#45. To: CZ82 (#43)
"all is for the best in the best of all possible worlds"
Von Mises associates any Government involvement in markets as "Socialism" , to mislead people into thinking Government is the enemy , when infact empire is the enemy and empire is Privatized.
#46. To: lucysmom (#22)
How many employees would it take to match the combined compensation of the top 209 CEOs?
How many of those employees have jobs because of those 209 CEOs?
All of them.
But for you, it is labor that is too greedy - interesting.
Me? How about Wisconsin? Ohio? California? Etc.
Why do you hate productive American workers?
I thought you were above such personal dishonesty.
#47. To: mininggold (#23)
His oil company employer tells him what to think?
Presumptuous and wrong.
#48. To: lucysmom (#25)
According to the theory of cognitive dissonance that either makes him a well paid lackey or a brain-washed pawn.
Now you're off and running with false info...Boo.
#49. To: socalv8 (#46)
But for you, it is labor that is too greedy - interesting.Me? How about Wisconsin? Ohio? California? Etc.
Wisconsin is considering a bill that would make highway repairs a discretionary duty.
Ohio - good news; More than 375 new lobbyists have registered with the state since Republican John Kasich defeated Democrat Gov. Ted Strickland and the GOP regained control of the House and improved its grip on the Senate, according to a comparison of 2010 and 2011 lobbying registration rolls.
http://www.cleveland.com/naymik/index.ssf/2011/07/new_lobbyists_in_ohio_have_str.html
California? Well, the austerity policy is a result of Norquist's hold on Republicans that denied Californians the right to vote. Perhaps you think it's a good thing for a minority held in thrall to a powerful lobby making policy for the people of the State of California is a good thing?
I thought you were above such personal dishonesty.
Most people are average. You support an economic system that is designed to enable a small minority to accumulate vast wealth while the average man continues to loose ground.
Von Mises associates any Government involvement in markets as "Socialism" , to mislead people into thinking Government is the enemy , when infact empire is the enemy and empire is Privatized.
#50. To: CZ82 (#42)
The wage scale isn't always fair.
I'm always amused when so called conservatives appear obsessed with 'fairness'.
#51. To: lucysmom, socalv8 (#49)
Most people are average. You support an economic system that is designed to enable a small minority to accumulate vast wealth while the average man continues to loose ground.
With the apparent economic utopia of Mexico, right over the border, it must be frustrating for some.
#52. To: mininggold (#51)
With the apparent economic utopia of Mexico, right over the border, it must be frustrating for some.
They think they can have a Mexican economy and taxes with American security - ain't happenin.
Von Mises associates any Government involvement in markets as "Socialism" , to mislead people into thinking Government is the enemy , when infact empire is the enemy and empire is Privatized.
#53. To: mininggold (#51)
With the apparent economic utopia of Mexico, right over the border, it must be frustrating for some.
You forgot to apologize for your false characterization that I am a "banker"...
economic utopia of Mexico
Incoherence won't make me forget.
#54. To: mininggold (#50)
The wage scale isn't always fair.I'm always amused when so called conservatives appear obsessed with 'fairness'.
I didn't know telling the truth was an obsession?????? Guess I learned something today!!
When asked by a Liberal what I bought my Granddaughter for her 1st birthday I replied, "MORE AMMUNITION"!!!!
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