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Title: It�s The Debt, Dummy
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URL Source: http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article28632.html
Published: Jun 13, 2011
Author: James Quinn
Post Date: 2011-06-13 12:42:58 by Capitalist Eric
Keywords: None
Views: 15387
Comments: 38
I think charts tell a story that allows you to disregard the lies being spewed by those in power. Below are four charts that tell the truth about our current predicament. The first is from http://www.mybudget360.com/. The austerity and debt reduction storyline being sold by the MSM is a crock. The total amount of mortgage debt outstanding peaked at $14.6 trillion in 2008. The total amount of consumer debt (credit cards, auto loans, student, boats) outstanding peaked at $2.6 trillion in 2008. Today, mortgage debt outstanding stands at $13.8 trillion, while consumer debt stands at $2.4 trillion. Therefore, total consumer debt has declined by $1 trillion in the last three years. The MSM and talking heads use this data to declare that consumers have been paying down debt. This is a complete and utter falsehood. The banks have written off more than $1 trillion, which the American taxpayer has unwittingly reimbursed them for. Consumers have not deleveraged. They have taken on more debt since 2008. GMAC (Ally Bank) is handing out 0% down 0% interest loans like candy again. Never has a chart shown why the country is such a mess, with no easy way out. It was the early 1980's and the Boomers were between 23 years old and 40 years old. Seventy six million Boomers were in the work force. Was it the chicken or the egg? The financial industry peddled debt as the solution to all problems. But, it was up to the Boomers to take on the debt or live within their means. Boomers chose to live for today and worry about tomorrow at some later date. There is no doubt what they did. The chart tells the story. Boomers can moan and blame and point the finger at others, but they took on the debt in order to live at a higher standard than their income would allow. This is why 60% of retirees have less than $50,000 in savings today. This is why 67% of all workers in the US have less than $50,000 in savings. A full 46% of all workers have less than $10,000 in savings. In order for this economy to become balanced again would require consumer debt to be reduced by $3 to $4 trillion and the savings rate to double from 5% to 10%. This will never happen voluntarily. Americans are still delusional. They are actually increasing their debt as credit card debt sits at $790 billion, student loan debt at $1 trillion, auto loans at $600 billion, and mortgage debt at $13.8 trillion. The debt will not decline until an economic Depression wipes out banks and consumers alike. America will go down with a bang, not a whimper. Household net worth peaked at $65.8 trillion in Q2 2007. Net worth fell to $49.4 trillion in Q1 2009 (a loss of over $16 trillion), and net worth was at $58.1 trillion in Q1 2011 (up $8.7 trillion from the trough). So, household net worth is still down by $7.7 trillion from its 2007 peak. The really bad news is that the real estate portion of household net worth dropped from $22.7 trillion in 2007 to $16.1 trillion today, a $6.6 trillion loss. Real estate continues to fall. You can clearly see who benefitted from the monetary and fiscal stimulus implemented by Bernanke, Geithner, and Obama. If household net worth is up $8.7 trillion from the trough in early 2009, but real estate has continued to fall. This means that the entire increase in net worth came from stock market gains. As you may or may not know, the top 10% wealthiest people in the US own 81% of all the stocks in the country. The other 90% own virtually no stocks, so they have been left with depreciating houses and inflating bills for energy and food. The top 10% are about to take another multi-trillion dollar hit in the next six months as QE2 ends and the stock market implodes. This will knock the country back into deep recession. The most amazing chart of all time is the one below showing home equity since 1952. In a normal non-delusional world, people pay down the principal on their mortgage month after month, resulting in their equity in the house methodically rising. National home prices doubled between 2000 and 2005. One might ask, how in the hell could home equity drop from 60% to 58% between 2000 and 2005 when home prices went up 100%? Equity should have risen to 75%. Well the delusional Boomers struck again. The banks made it as easy as hitting the ATM to get equity out of your house and the Boomers jumped in with both feet, as usual. Americans withdrew $2.8 trillion of fake equity from their homes between 2003 and 2007. They lived the lifestyles of the rich and famous. BMWs, Mercedes, cement ponds (pools), new kitchens, Jacuzzis, home theaters, exotic vacations, hookers, facelifts, size DDs, and putting a little more in the church basket abounded. This astounding level of stupidity and hubris left millions of Americans vulnerable when the bubble popped all over their faces. Millions have lost their homes. Almost 11 million more are underwater on their mortgage. There is years of pain to go. Household equity is now at an all-time low of 38.1%. What makes this number even more amazing is that 33% of all homes are owned outright with no mortgage. This means that the 50 million houses with a mortgage have far less than 38.1% equity. The people who sucked hundreds of thousands out of their houses to live the good life deserve to get it good and hard. The last and most humorous graph shows how home price gains are fleeting, while the debt stays wrapped like an anchor around your neck. The greatest bubble in history was clear to Robert Shiller, John Mauldin and many other people with their eyes open. Ben Bernanke was not one of those people. He thought we had a solid housing market in 2005. Real estate values fell from 170% of GDP to 110% of GDP today, headed down to 90% or lower by 2015. The mortgage debt behind this real estate has declined by $634 billion, from 75% of GDP to 65% of GDP. Most of this was due to default, not payment. It should be clear to anyone that we have a bit of a debt problem. The government solutions jammed down our throats since 2008 have added $7 trillion of debt to the national balance sheet. The only thing keeping this house of cards from collapsing immediately has been the extremely low interest rates put in place by the Federal Reserve. The end of QE2 potentially could result in interest rates rising. If interest rates were to rise 2%, this country’s economic system would implode. Time is not on our side. The debt cannot be repaid. The debt cannot be serviced. The debt has destroyed this country. Years from now when historians ponder what caused the great American Empire to collapse, the answer on the exam will be: IT WAS THE DEBT, DUMMY.
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#1. To: Capitalist Eric (#0)
(Edited)
amazing correlation between rising debt/gdp ratio and the beginning of the Reagan administration. A steady upward clime, tempered only by the Clinton administration.
"Thats because your basically and idiot." and oh how they hated him!
It is our responsibility to protect that child once that child’s born too. When we start debating a budget, let’s make sure we don’t cut 100,000 vaccines. Let’s make sure we’ve got health insurance. We seem to worship what we cannot see, but as soon as that baby’s born, oh no, we don’t want to be intrusive. Texas is going to shrink government until it fits inside a women’s uterus. Senator Leticia Van de Putte
You idiots just can't wrap your puny brains around the fact that this is beyond which political party happens to be in power, can you? Superficial thinking is all you two fools are good for.
List of those unable to think: Bumper sticker on DwarF's car: No quarter for them either, eh, Erica?
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" The Republicans wanted a balanced budget from the start and sink boy fought them tooth and nail using the same age old scare tactics with a compliant MSM.
Now, I know I’m not going to change the minds of any of the True Believers…those who read all of Reverend Al’s sermons, and say things like, “You know, global warming can mean warmer OR colder, wetter OR drier, cloudier OR sunnier, windier OR calmer, …”. Can I get an ‘amen’??
Actually, as Clinton was elected largely with the help pf moderate Re-Thugs evicted by that party by it growing intolerant of diversity of viewpoints who defected GHW Bush's re-election attempt. I didn't support Clinton. And I noted well what group of people put him over the top to get the nomination and then win the election. You people have only your own vicious intolerances to blame for much of your woes. A GOP Congress found Clinton easy to get along with as he effectively cut deals with it. Your insinuation that this was a one way street, or blindness to how many recently disfranchised Re-Thugs helped make him POTUS is disingenuous at best.
I guess you forgot about the government shutdowns in 95/96, as the GOP fought for a 5 year balanced budget plan, and Clinton, the Democrats and the media kept championing the worn out mantra (although they still do it today), "on the backs of the poor, seniors, and minorities."
Now, I know I’m not going to change the minds of any of the True Believers…those who read all of Reverend Al’s sermons, and say things like, “You know, global warming can mean warmer OR colder, wetter OR drier, cloudier OR sunnier, windier OR calmer, …”. Can I get an ‘amen’??
they had one in 2001. And then they passed multi-trillion dollar tax cuts and massive increases in spending. You keep forgetting that.
"Thats because your basically and idiot." You keep forgetting the tax cuts had nothing to do with deficit. The tax cut was in RESPONSE to the bust economy Bush was handed. This mean anything to you? The five year graph of the NASDAQ stock market demonstrates that the economic crash had begun months before the November election and that the crash had nearly bottomed out in late April (see red dot on graph) – about ten weeks after Bush took office in January 2001. If anyone would credit Clinton with the boom, then why wouldn’t they blame him for the crash? Clearly, the crash could not have been caused by Bush, and yet every Democrat I talked to in 2001 blamed Bush for the crash. To this day, most Democrats I talk to blame Bush for the crash. To this day, when I point out that Bush inherited a bad economy, most Republicans have that look of epiphany when first realizing something profound. Their years of being misinformed is a testament to the power and bias of the mainstream media. Perhaps the myth survives because the media and political parties are so technology and business illiterate that they do not understand the dot com boom or the collapse, but that still would not explain how anyone can ignore the fact that the economic crash happened in the final months of the Clinton administration. Democrats usually just ignore this evidence and reply that everyone disagrees with me, but a very few have been honest enough to try to explain why that Bill Clinton made excellent economic decisions, that he balanced the budget, that the crash would have happened regardless of who was president at the time, and that Bush made decisions that worsened and prolonged the crash. I then explain why each of these statements is also false, at which point even the more honest Democrats fall back on the standard Democrat tactic of claiming that everyone disagrees with me.
Now, I know I’m not going to change the minds of any of the True Believers…those who read all of Reverend Al’s sermons, and say things like, “You know, global warming can mean warmer OR colder, wetter OR drier, cloudier OR sunnier, windier OR calmer, …”. Can I get an ‘amen’??
You keep forgetting that we know that is bullshit.
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" Sink boy allowed the tech bust on his watch. Blame him.
Now, I know I’m not going to change the minds of any of the True Believers…those who read all of Reverend Al’s sermons, and say things like, “You know, global warming can mean warmer OR colder, wetter OR drier, cloudier OR sunnier, windier OR calmer, …”. Can I get an ‘amen’??
That wasn't the cause of the deficits...
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" BS The recession was of the definitely the cause of the deficits. The tax cuts were an effort to stimulate the economy. They have been so effective that even the Kenyan continued them.
Now, I know I’m not going to change the minds of any of the True Believers…those who read all of Reverend Al’s sermons, and say things like, “You know, global warming can mean warmer OR colder, wetter OR drier, cloudier OR sunnier, windier OR calmer, …”. Can I get an ‘amen’??
This Re-Thug mis-step in making sure that happened hurt them and put them in the position Clinton wanted. All the GOP are is a group of paid for surrogates of corporations and rich folks.
They made the mistake of believing the MSM would be in any way fair or responsible in their reporting of what was happening.
Now, I know I’m not going to change the minds of any of the True Believers…those who read all of Reverend Al’s sermons, and say things like, “You know, global warming can mean warmer OR colder, wetter OR drier, cloudier OR sunnier, windier OR calmer, …”. Can I get an ‘amen’??
Revenues fell for three straight years because of a 5 month recession - a recession that was predominantly caused by decreased business spending? Say "Good Night, Paddy."
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" No, they made the mis-step of booing moderates at the convention re-anointing GHW Bush for a second run in the organized game to destroy the presence of moderates in the party sending them into Clinton's column come election day. Besides, hero of obscure blogs and re-writer of other people's intellectual property, who the fuck are you to talk about an impartial press?
What does any of that have to do with the 95 budget debate? Try and get that drug addled brain of yours to stay on subject.
Now, I know I’m not going to change the minds of any of the True Believers…those who read all of Reverend Al’s sermons, and say things like, “You know, global warming can mean warmer OR colder, wetter OR drier, cloudier OR sunnier, windier OR calmer, …”. Can I get an ‘amen’??
By the end of 2001, revenues were essentially stable.
Now, I know I’m not going to change the minds of any of the True Believers…those who read all of Reverend Al’s sermons, and say things like, “You know, global warming can mean warmer OR colder, wetter OR drier, cloudier OR sunnier, windier OR calmer, …”. Can I get an ‘amen’??
Bottom line: Its OWE-BAMA's problem TODAY...and it will be OWE-BAMA'S problem next year in November when we fire his ass.
Proxy IP's are amusing.....lmao
Use yer Ghooddle, poodle. You are the one with the shabby posting record that makes one wonder what you spike your coffee with. Try posting one thread on a topic instead of several on the same thing, and stop stealing intellectual properties. Which is exactly what any re-write anywhere in a piece is.
Oh what the hell. Maybe I should tell you how FOS I really think you are. It's laughable that the same damn idiots who have to come out each week with the word "unexpectedly" want to portray themselves as some kind of experts. The recession officially ended in 2001? I damn sure remember a terrible economy in 2002 and 2003 and so did all you leftards as Kerry ran on the "worst economy since Hoover." The fact is despite 911 and the continuing terrible economy because of 911 and Clinton's malfeasance, revenues only decreased slightly in 2002 and 2003. By 2004, they were back above 2002 levels, and by 2005, they were the highest in history. So yeah, Bush's tax cuts worked. Even the Kenyan knows it, which is why he continued them. So just kiss my ass and apologize for ever questioning me on the matter.
Now, I know I’m not going to change the minds of any of the True Believers…those who read all of Reverend Al’s sermons, and say things like, “You know, global warming can mean warmer OR colder, wetter OR drier, cloudier OR sunnier, windier OR calmer, …”. Can I get an ‘amen’??
You're out of your minds...whichever one is operational at this point... 10% in dollars, while GDP growth was positive and from 20% to 16% in terms of % of GDP, which you folks love to cite, is hardly stable...
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" Shall I post how happy "happy fun ball" was with the economy in 2003 and 2004? Then there's good old Boofer...he was bragging about how he was making money hand over fist during that period...
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" You shouldn't shoot up while posting...
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" You keep forgetting Bush and the Republicans not only cut taxes, but they MASSIVELY increased social welfare spending while launching two wars without paying for them. That, along with the recession caused by insufficient financial regulation, is why we have a massive deficit now.
"Thats because your basically and idiot." Hard as I try, I just can't take seriously a man who identifies himself with a monkey reaching to grab his own poop.
It is our responsibility to protect that child once that child’s born too. When we start debating a budget, let’s make sure we don’t cut 100,000 vaccines. Let’s make sure we’ve got health insurance. We seem to worship what we cannot see, but as soon as that baby’s born, oh no, we don’t want to be intrusive. Texas is going to shrink government until it fits inside a women’s uterus. Senator Leticia Van de Putte
Chuckle...
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" Ayn Rand acolyte Greenspan's 6 interest rate hikes 1999-2000 had more to do with precipitating the recession than Clinton.
It is our responsibility to protect that child once that child’s born too. When we start debating a budget, let’s make sure we don’t cut 100,000 vaccines. Let’s make sure we’ve got health insurance. We seem to worship what we cannot see, but as soon as that baby’s born, oh no, we don’t want to be intrusive. Texas is going to shrink government until it fits inside a women’s uterus. Senator Leticia Van de Putte
looks likem wr seconded that, so I will third it.
Bush, the candidate, was pushing tax cuts long before recession was an issue. I remember Bush's tax cuts referred to at the time as "a solution in search of a problem". Bush used the same morphing justification strategy for war with Iraq.
It is our responsibility to protect that child once that child’s born too. When we start debating a budget, let’s make sure we don’t cut 100,000 vaccines. Let’s make sure we’ve got health insurance. We seem to worship what we cannot see, but as soon as that baby’s born, oh no, we don’t want to be intrusive. Texas is going to shrink government until it fits inside a women’s uterus. Senator Leticia Van de Putte
The economy was growing but employers were not hiring, just like now. Its called a jobless recovery.
It is our responsibility to protect that child once that child’s born too. When we start debating a budget, let’s make sure we don’t cut 100,000 vaccines. Let’s make sure we’ve got health insurance. We seem to worship what we cannot see, but as soon as that baby’s born, oh no, we don’t want to be intrusive. Texas is going to shrink government until it fits inside a women’s uterus. Senator Leticia Van de Putte
That makes it official!
It is our responsibility to protect that child once that child’s born too. When we start debating a budget, let’s make sure we don’t cut 100,000 vaccines. Let’s make sure we’ve got health insurance. We seem to worship what we cannot see, but as soon as that baby’s born, oh no, we don’t want to be intrusive. Texas is going to shrink government until it fits inside a women’s uterus. Senator Leticia Van de Putte
He reminds me of this one arrogant guy we had in our unit when we went to the unit jungle training at Ft. Sherman in Panama the summer before the invasion. Monkeys would travel in the canopy and we were told to LEAVE THEM ALONE. This guy was 'smarter' then anyone else, so he threw a rock barely missing a howler monkey. He laughed when it made shocked and highly annoyed noises, faces and gestures. Until it loaded it's little monkey hand and pelted him with you know what. And as monkey see, monkey do is more then an expression, his friends joined in the fun. Man, he sure stunk. And he couldn't shower until we were done and back to the cantonment area. The next day we were back out and again we had visitors in the canopy. One of the Panamanian trainers went to him and urgently told him to cover up. He did, but it was humid and hot and he let the little ones see his face. One monkey whom we assume was the offended primate started shrieking and pointed him out with a delivery of the deadly, and of course he spent another day smelling as bad as Eric's posts look. The moral of the story is, if you get on a group of howler monkey's bad side, there is shit to pay. ;-D
LOL Who is the dumb animal?
It is our responsibility to protect that child once that child’s born too. When we start debating a budget, let’s make sure we don’t cut 100,000 vaccines. Let’s make sure we’ve got health insurance. We seem to worship what we cannot see, but as soon as that baby’s born, oh no, we don’t want to be intrusive. Texas is going to shrink government until it fits inside a women’s uterus. Senator Leticia Van de Putte
This guy was 'smarter' then anyone else, so he threw a rock barely missing a howler monkey. He laughed when it made shocked and highly annoyed noises, faces and gestures. Until it loaded it's little monkey hand and pelted him with you know what. And as monkey see, monkey do is more then an expression, his friends joined in the fun. Man, he sure stunk. And he couldn't shower until we were done and back to the cantonment area. The next day we were back out and again we had visitors in the canopy. One of the Panamanian trainers went to him and urgently told him to cover up. Old wives tale from the military but nice try. In South Vietnam, the same story was told: rock monkeys. It was just slightly different using grenades. The fable is predated back to the Philippines and WW2. But it is humourous to revisit that stuff.
Great title. How about... It's the marxism, motherf*cker. ;)
Monkeys were throwing grenades????? BTW,I was in VN and never heard that story. The monkeys in VN were too smart to do any moving they didn't have to do or to make any noises when people were around because they knew they would end up in a cook pot if they attracted attention.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
Badeye posted on 2011-04-29 10:30:22 ET
#2. To: go65 (#1)
...tempered only by the Clinton administration.
#3. To: go65, lucysmom (#1)
tempered only by the Clinton administration.
mcgowanjm, ferret mike, skippy, fartboy/yukko, white sands, bucky, lucys idiot mom, e_type_jackoff, go56, badlie, wreck, calCON, mininggold, war, Banjo Boris, Biff, Godwinson and meguro. If you're on the above list, you're too fucking stupid to hold a real conversation.
#4. To: Capitalist Eric (#3)
--GW Bush
--Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere"
#5. To: go65 (#1)
A steady upward clime, tempered only by the
Clinton administration. first GOP Congress in 40 years.
#6. To: no gnu taxes (#5)
#7. To: Ferret Mike (#6)
A GOP Congress found Clinton easy to get along with as he effectively cut deals with it.
#8. To: no gnu taxes (#5)
The Republicans wanted a balanced budget from the start
Badeye posted on 2011-04-29 10:30:22 ET
#9. To: go65 (#8)
#10. To: no gnu taxes (#9)
You keep forgetting the tax cuts had nothing to do with deficit.
--GW Bush
--Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere"
#11. To: war (#10)
#12. To: no gnu taxes (#11)
Sink boy allowed the tech bust on his watch. Blame him.
--GW Bush
--Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere"
#13. To: war (#12)
#14. To: no gnu taxes (#7)
"I guess you forgot about the government shutdowns in 95/96"
#15. To: Ferret Mike (#14)
This Re-Thug mis-step
#16. To: no gnu taxes (#13)
(Edited)
--GW Bush
--Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere"
#17. To: no gnu taxes (#15)
#18. To: Ferret Mike (#17)
No, they made the mis-step of booing moderates at the convention re-anointing GHW Bush for a second run in the organized game to destroy the presence of moderates in the party sending them into Clinton's column come election day.
#19. To: war (#16)
Revenues fell for three straight years
#20. To: no gnu taxes (#19)
#21. To: no gnu taxes (#18)
"Try and get that drug addled brain of yours to stay on subject."
#22. To: war (#16)
#23. To: no gnu taxes (#19)
By the end of 2001, revenues were essentially stable.
--GW Bush
--Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere"
#24. To: no gnu taxes (#22)
I damn sure remember a terrible economy in 2002 and 2003 and so did all you leftards as Kerry ran on the "worst economy since Hoover."
--GW Bush
--Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere"
#25. To: no gnu taxes (#22)
So yeah, Bush's tax cuts worked. Even the Kenyan knows it, which is why he continued them. So just kiss my ass and apologize for ever questioning me on the matter.
--GW Bush
--Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere"
#26. To: no gnu taxes (#9)
You keep forgetting the tax cuts had nothing to do with deficit. The tax cut was in RESPONSE to the bust economy Bush was handed. This mean anything to you?
Badeye posted on 2011-04-29 10:30:22 ET
#27. To: Capitalist Eric (#3)
Superficial thinking is all you two fools are good for.
#28. To: lucysmom (#27)
--GW Bush
--Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere"
#29. To: no gnu taxes (#9)
If anyone would credit Clinton with the boom, then why wouldn’t they blame him for the crash?
#30. To: lucysmom (#27)
"Hard as I try, I just can't take seriously a man who identifies himself with a monkey reaching to grab his own poop."
#31. To: no gnu taxes (#9)
You keep forgetting the tax cuts had nothing to do with deficit. The tax cut was in RESPONSE to the bust economy Bush was handed.
#32. To: no gnu taxes (#22)
I damn sure remember a terrible economy in 2002 and 2003 and so did all you leftards as Kerry ran on the "worst economy since Hoover."
#33. To: Ferret Mike (#30)
looks likem wr seconded that, so I will third it.
#34. To: lucysmom (#33)
#35. To: Ferret Mike (#34)
He did, but it was humid and hot and he let the little ones see his face. One monkey whom we assume was the offended primate started shrieking and pointed him out with a delivery of the deadly, and of course he spent another day smelling as bad as Eric's posts look.
#36. To: Ferret Mike, sneakypete, hondo68 (#34)
Monkeys would travel in the canopy and we were told to LEAVE THEM ALONE.
#37. To: Capitalist Eric (#0)
It’s The Debt, Dummy
#38. To: buckeroo (#36)
In South Vietnam, the same story was told: rock monkeys. It was just slightly different using grenades.
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