New World Order
See other New World Order Articles
Title: Obama's Birth Certificate: Not the Issue
Source:
Land Destroyer
URL Source: http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2 ... rth-certificate-not-issue.html
Published: Apr 29, 2011
Author: Tony Cartalucci
Post Date: 2011-04-29 11:08:51 by Hondo68
Ping List: *The Two Parties ARE the Same* Subscribe to *The Two Parties ARE the Same*
Keywords: John McCain exact same, corporate-financier agenda, the brand of propaganda used
Views: 47711
Comments: 62
Bangkok, Thailand April 29, 2011 - Of course, a candidate must meet legal requirements before running for public office. This is a universally agreed upon concept which has been enumerated in laws in every nation, since the beginning of human civilization. However, for those who deeply examine the United States and how it has drifted from a constitutional republic to the corporate-financier oligarchy it is today, they might realize the futility of arguing over "President" Obama's qualifications for an office that has long been ceremonial, if not entirely theatrical.
Like it or not, your real government consists of unelected
bankers and corporate special interests. The argument
that Obama' birth certificate makes-or-breaks his legitimacy
pales in comparison to the realization that the entire office of the
president has been usurped for at least 2 decades.
The corporate-financier agenda transcends presidencies. From Reagan to Obama, US foreign and domestic policy has moved in a continuously linear direction toward increasing corporate-financial monopolies and eroding the role and sovereignty of the US Constitution and the people who are supposed to execute it. In 1991, "Neo-Conservative" war monger Paul Wolfowitz stated that the Middle East would be turned upside down and reordered in America's favor - ironically, this operation which has been piecemeal planned and executed year-by-year since then, is finally unfolding in its entirety under the supposedly "liberal" Obama administration.
Likewise, the seemingly "liberal" free-trade agreements pushed by Clinton, were expanded into the beginnings of the supernational Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America under the supposedly "conservative" Bush administration. Of course, the blueprints for the SPP or the geopolitical reordering of the Middle East weren't drawn up by presidential administrations nor committees amongst America's elected representatives, but rather by unelected corporate-funded think-tanks like the Council on Foreign Relations or the Brookings Institute. These think-tanks represent the collective interests of the largest corporations and financial institutions on earth and are the real, often obscure architects of both American and European foreign and domestic policy.
The only difference one can delineate then, is the brand of propaganda used during each supposedly ideologically differentiated political administration to sell this unipolar, unilateral, continuous agenda to the public as it creeps forward. But even upon examining each presidential administration, we are struck with names and affiliations of members who directly represent these corporate interests. To illustrate how entirely ineffectual and meaningless "Obama" is as a president, let's examine some key members of his administration and what their affiliations are.
Timothy Geithner (Secretary of the Treasury): Group of 30, Council on Foreign Relations, private Federal Reserve
Eric Holder (Attorney General): Covington & Burling lobbying for Merck and representing Chiquita International Brands in lawsuits brought by relatives of people killed by Colombian terrorists.
Eric Shinseki (Secretary of Veteran Affairs): US Army, Council on Foreign Relations, Honeywell director (military contractor), Ducommun director (military contractor).
Rahm Emanuel (former Chief of Staff): Freddie Mac
William Daley (Chief of Staff): JP Morgan executive committee member
Susan Rice (UN Ambassador): McKinsey and Company, Brookings Institute, Council on Foreign Relations
Peter Orszag, (former Budget Director): Citi Group, Council on Foreign Relations
Paul Volcker: Council on Foreign Relations, private Federal Reserve, Group of 30
Ronald Kirk (US Trade Representative): lobbyist, part of Goldman Sachs, Kohlberg, Kravis, Roberts, and Texas Pacific Group partnership to buyout Energy Future Holdings.
Lawrence Summers (National Economic Council Director): World Bank, Council on Foreign Relations
Who amongst Obama's administration can we honestly presume has the people's, or even America's best interests at heart? Goldman Sachs bankers? JP Morgan bankers? Corporate lobbyists? Indeed, these are the same banking, corporate, and political interests that guided the agenda under Bush, Clinton, Bush Sr., Regan and so on. While there is some debate over which US president was in fact the last "real" president who exercised an agenda it genuinely could claim ownership over, there is no doubt that over the last two decades the same corporate interests have been entirely steering America's people and their destiny with but the veneer of "democracy."
Had John McCain won the elections in 2008, you could rest assured he would have taken US policy in the exact same direction Obama is going today. In fact, McCain is one of the key players who has helped fund and organize the current unrest sweeping the Middle East, along with a myriad of other "Republicans" and "Neo-Conservatives." The "Arab Spring" itself was planned and being staged before Obama even took office.
Ideologically, President Obama's qualifications are important and many are right to question them. Realistically, they are a red herring, as is his entire presidency. He is in charge of exactly nothing, most likely not even the tie he puts on in the morning and surely not the words that come out of his mouth. His entire function is to perpetuate the facade that America is still run by an elected government and not an illegitimate oligarchy of corporations and financial institutions. Arguing over his birth certificate engenders him with legitimacy in and of itself - suggesting that if he had proper qualifications he would be a "legitimate" president. But he, like his predecessor Bush, are both entirely illegitimate, as is the system they purportedly preside over.
Recognizing this grave reality, and instead concentrating on the corporate-financier interests that have hijacked American politics is essential to restoring a true constitutional republic. For it is not whose hands we think hold the power, it is in whose hands that really hold the power that shapes US policy. Definitively, US policy does not favor the people, definitively the power is not in the people's hands. As long as we grasp to the illusion that through the futile exercise of elections we are somehow "in control," it will remain this way perpetually. The fact that our president is in charge of absolutely nothing and that his duties have long been shifted to an unelected corporate-financier oligarchy is the issue, not his dubious qualifications.
(1 image)
Subscribe to *The Two Parties ARE the Same*
Post Comment Private Reply Ignore Thread
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest
#1. To: hondo68, *The Two Parties ARE the Same*, *Bill of Rights-Constitution*, *Crime and Corruption*, *Hypocrisy and Hypocrites*, *Economic News*, *Politics and Politicians* (#0)
However, for those who deeply examine the United States and how it has drifted from a constitutional republic to the corporate-financier oligarchy it is today, they might realize the futility of arguing over "President" Obama's qualifications for an office that has long been ceremonial, if not entirely theatrical.
This needs to be shouted from the rooftops. The problem is the very people whose job it is to shout it from the rooftops in this electronic age are owned by the same international bankers that own the corporations that own the politicians.
The corporate-financier agenda transcends presidencies. From Reagan to Obama, US foreign and domestic policy has moved in a continuously linear direction toward increasing corporate-financial monopolies and eroding the role and sovereignty of the US Constitution and the people who are supposed to execute it.
Which is exactly why I have been calling President Homie "Bush 4.0" ever since he took office. That weasel bastard Poppy Bush and his cronies started subverting Reagan the day he took office. Reagan was forced to take Poppy as his VP because the RNC threatened to withold support for his run for the WH if he didn't accept Poppy.
Had John McCain won the elections in 2008, you could rest assured he would have taken US policy in the exact same direction Obama is going today.
And being more experienced with more and better contacts,he would have probably been more successful.
Ideologically, President Obama's qualifications are important and many are right to question them. Realistically, they are a red herring, as is his entire presidency. He is in charge of exactly nothing, most likely not even the tie he puts on in the morning and surely not the words that come out of his mouth.His entire function is to perpetuate the facade that America is still run by an elected government and not an illegitimate oligarchy of corporations and financial institutions.
BINGO!
The fact that our president is in charge of absolutely nothing and that his duties have long been shifted to an unelected corporate-financier oligarchy is the issue, not his dubious qualifications.
The author of this piece has summed it up about as well as I have ever seen,but he doesn't take it far enough because he doesn't even mention the politically powerful supporting cast that makes all this possible. US Senators and Congresscritters that are owned outright by the international bankers.
The voters could all get together and elect a 21st Century Thomas Jefferson at this point and he would be powerless to change things because he would have both the DNC AND the RNC working against him,as well as the US Senate and the US Congress.
The ONLY way to change things is start at the local level and work your way up. Get a solid conservative pro-American base from the local to the state and federal level so a new president has the political support he needs to pass new laws,throw out old laws,eliminate bureaucracies,and change foreign policies.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
#2. To: sneakypete, hondo68 (#1)
The ONLY way to change things is start at the local level and work your way up. Get a solid conservative pro-American base from the local to the state and federal level so a new president has the political support he needs to pass new laws,throw out old laws,eliminate bureaucracies,and change foreign policies.
I haven't seen you this excited in years about an article; and it is a good article, too.
But, your idea won't work. The large population centers all around the USA control the electoral college and that voting block is typically based on poor folks that enjoy handouts from Uncle Scam. The messes America is involved with, both foreign and domestic, are unrepairable with a constituentcy that has torn the nation from the bottom to the top; it can not be fixed and that is why you see no one advancing REAL change back towards a small government on any level, anywhere. The incremental suicide that America has perpetrated upon itself from about 1897 (the Spanish American War) has placed us into hopelessness with one singular method .... so far, no one wants to pull the ripcord.
#3. To: buckeroo (#2)
I haven't seen you this excited in years about an article;
Me,either.
It may be the most defining article I have seen posted about the problems we have today and why we have them.
If I had my way,this would be mandatory reading for every high school student in the country.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
#4. To: buckeroo (#2)
The large population centers all around the USA control the electoral college and that voting block is typically based on poor folks that enjoy handouts from Uncle Scamadvancing REAL change back towards a small government
The beer is still cold. When the power goes out and they're forced to drink those four-oohs warm, you'll see REAL change.
"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul
I recall a re-run of MASH I saw where this uber right winger named Colonel Flagg...
Godwinson posted on 2011-02-23 11:47:32 ET
http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=18011&Disp=46#C46
#5. To: hondo68, sneakypete (#4)
The beer is still cold. When the power goes out and they're forced to drink those four-oohs warm, you'll see REAL change.
Exactly my point. I used to share Pete's well-articulated perspective about addressing local government concerns FIRST and then moving on to county, state and federal governance. It is in the forefront of the Libertarian Party's methods towards a desired outcome to diminish large government and return the power base back to the local level. And for years, there has only been some good results but way below my expectations. The American People don't give a shit other than a free handout while enjoying a cold one during their daily couch potatoe activities.
Taken with the current "average" American's considerations for REAL change, the demographics as well as anyone can vote it is nearly impossible to change this nation.
Keep in mind that what made America GREAT was not a large electoral constituency during the first one hundred years of America. It was a small one; wherein those that voted normally owned land and added value back to the communities where they worked; that same value created the greatest nation on the Earth.
But, today, we have mostly everyone that can vote: from illegals to welfare recipients to federal/state/local retirees that collect HUGE amounts of earnings based on government handouts while doing little other than complaining they want more.
It is a hopeless America, anymore. And there can be no change to impede the current dynamics other than ONE: REVOLUTION.
#6. To: buckeroo, hondo68 (#5)
It is a hopeless America, anymore. And there can be no change to impede the current dynamics other than ONE: REVOLUTION.
You may well be right,but my position is and will remain that there are only two options.
1: Work within the political system to enact changes.
2: Pick up your rifle and go into politics.
Once option 2 is picked there is no going back. Many people will die and many more will suffer greatly. I will always resist option 2 as long as I have the option to resist it. Once people start coming after me with rifles is when I will pick mine up,and if I am ever forced to do that I will show no mercy.
Which means that I will stick with option 1 as long as it remains an option. Once the announcement is made that we are going to a "Cash-Free Society" or that the 2nd Amendment is being annulled,it's game on for me. Up until that time I am going to stick with the voting with a ballot process.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
#7. To: sneakypete, hondo68 (#6)
1: Work within the political system to enact changes.
Lets forget about option 2 and move on with your option 1 idea:
I will stick with option 1 as long as it remains an option. Once the announcement is made that we are going to a "Cash-Free Society" or that the 2nd Amendment is being annulled,it's game on for me. Up until that time I am going to stick with the voting with a ballot process.
Working within a failed political system? Your vote is worthless anymore. There is no political party that you can rely on or cling to for renewed capabilities for any reformation of government. The largest reason is that there are no voter qualifications to be found, anywhere.
You have no idea about the educational level, the ability to read/write much less understand the issues presented in America's voting constituents that have effected the so-called "progress" in America. You are in effect, wasting your time.
Proof is in the pudding, too. No one can repair the systems that the People have voted for. And starting out at the local level means to me that voter qualifications are in order. However, that can't occur because of the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT STRICT ADHERENCE TO FAIR ELECTIONS.
But, what is a "FAIR ELECTION" anyway? Where the People are continuously trashed by absurd policies&procedures that were voted in by folks that can barely sign their names on a voter registration card? Why does an illegal alien get to subtract my vote for real change? In fact, why are there MILLIONS of illegal aliens in America?
But, the illegals are just one issue out of thousands of which are trashing America and American values. There are no REAL voter qualifications other than being a biped; without real voter qualifications it is impossible to have a true representative government of the citizenry.
#8. To: buckeroo (#7)
without real voter qualifications it is impossible to have a true representative government of the citizenry.
Which is why you go back to the founders vision. Jettison egalitarianism and permit only those with a vested interest in maintaining the Constitutional authority in this land, i.e. land and property owners, military and career professionals vote. No one else. Especially not welfare recipients.
war has to do something for entertainment. The voices in his head aren't speaking to him and his imaginary friends have found reasons not to come over anymore.
#9. To: buckeroo (#2)
it is a good article, too.
Now, I know I’m not going to change the minds of any of the True Believers…those who read all of Reverend Al’s sermons, and say things like, “You know, global warming can mean warmer OR colder, wetter OR drier, cloudier OR sunnier, windier OR calmer, …”. Can I get an ‘amen’??
#10. To: Rudgear (#8)
Which is why you go back to the founders vision. Jettison egalitarianism and permit only those with a vested interest in maintaining the Constitutional authority in this land, i.e. land and property owners, military and career professionals vote. No one else. Especially not welfare recipients.
So the foreigners who own tons of our real estate get to vote, while those who rent do not?
Seriously?
"Thats because your basically and idiot.
Badeye posted on 2011-04-29 10:30:22 ET
#11. To: no gnu taxes (#9)
The issues HAVE NEVER BEEN ABOUT 0bama's qualifications; it has always been about the People that vote these charlatans into office.
There are no voter qualification requirements other than being able to cross your fingers that you are on a voter roster and signing for the same. If voters don't have qualifications how in the HELL can you expect anyone in an elected position to have any?
#12. To: go65 (#10)
permit only those with a vested interest in maintaining the Constitutional authority in this land. Foreigners and the corporate communists who enabled outsiders to get a stranglehold on the people of this country clearly do not fall under my observation.
More clearly: no. They don't have an integral stake in maintaining a Constitutional republic. The seek the very socialist regime the left does with one minor detail. They seek to control the means, not own it.
war has to do something for entertainment. The voices in his head aren't speaking to him and his imaginary friends have found reasons not to come over anymore.
#13. To: sneakypete (#6)
Which means that I will stick with option 1 as long as it remains an option.
I applaud your sentiments.
In response, however, I will offer an extended quote from Claire Wolfe:
CONTROL REIGNS
It matters not one whit whether the people controlling you call themselves R's or D's, liberals or conservatives, socialists or even (I hate to admit it) libertarians. It doesn't matter whether they vote for these horrors because they're not paying attention or because they actually like such things.What matters is that the pace of totalitarianism is increasing. And it is coming closer to our daily lives all the time. Once your state passes the enabling legislation (under threat of losing "federal welfare dollars"), it is YOUR name and Social Security number that will be entered in that employee database the moment you go to work for a new employer.
It is YOU who will be unable to cash a check, board an airplane, get a passport or be allowed any dealings with any government agency if you refuse to give your SS number to the drivers license bureau.
It is YOU who will be endangered by driving "illegally" if you refuse to submit to Big Brother's licensing procedures.
It is YOU whose psoriasis, manic depression or prostate troubles will soon be the reading matter of any bureaucrat with a computer.
It is YOU who could be declared a member of a "foreign terrorist" organization just because you bought a book or concert tickets from some group the government doesn't like.
It is YOU who could lose your home, bank account and reputation because you made a mistake on a health insurance form.
Finally, when you become truly desperate for freedom, it is YOU whose assets will be seized if you try to flee this increasingly insane country.
As Ayn Rand said in Atlas Shrugged, "There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws."
It's time to drop any pretense: We are no longer law-abiding citizens. We have lost our law-abiding status. There are simply too many laws to abide. And because of increasingly draconian penalties and electronic tracking mechanisms, our "lawbreaking" places us and our families in greater jeopardy every day.
STOPPING RUNAWAY GOVERNMENT
The question is: What are we going to do about it?
Write a nice, polite letter to your congressperson? Hey, if you think that'll help, I've got a bridge you might be interested in buying. (And it isn't your "bridge to the future," either.)
Vote "better people" into office? Oh yeah, that's what we thought we were doing in 1994.
Work to fight one bad bill or another? Okay. What will you do about the 10 or 20 or 100 equally horrible bills that will be passed behind your back while you were fighting that little battle? And let's say you defeat a nightmare bill this year. What are you going to do when they sneak it back in, at the very last minute, in some "omnibus legislation" next year? And what about the horrors you don't even learn about until two or three years after they become law?
Should you try fighting these laws in the courts? Where do you find the resources? Where do you find a judge who doesn't have a vested interest in bigger, more powerful government? And again, for every one case decided in favor of freedom, what do you do about the 10, 20 or 100 in which the courts decide against the Bill of Rights?
Perhaps you'd consider trying to stop the onrush of these horrors with a constitutional amendment -- maybe one that bans "omnibus" bills, requires that every law meet a constitutional test or requires all congresspeople to sign statements that they've read and understood every aspect of every bill on which they vote. Good luck! Good luck , first, on getting such an amendment passed.
Then good luck getting our Constitution-scorning "leaders" to obey it. It is true that liberty requires eternal vigilance, and that part of that vigilance has been, traditionally, keeping a watchful eye on laws and on lawbreaking lawmakers.
But given the current pace of law spewing and unconstitutional regulation- writing, you could watch, plead and struggle "within the system" 24 hours a day for your entire life and end up infinitely less free than when you began. Why throw your life away on a futile effort?
Face it. If "working within the system" could halt tyranny, the tyrants would outlaw it.
Why do you think they encourage you to vote, to write letters, to talk to them in public forums? It's to divert your energies. To keep you tame.
"The system" as it presently exists is nothing but a rat maze. You run around thinking you're getting somewhere. Your masters occasionally reward you with a little pellet that encourages you to believe you're accomplishing something. And in the meantime, you are as much their property and their pawn as if you were a slave.
In the effort of fighting them on their terms and with their authorized and approved tools, you have given your life's energy to them as surely as if you were toiling in their cotton fields, under the lash of their overseer.
The only way we're going to get off this road to Hell is if we jump off. If we, personally, as individuals, refuse to cooperate with evil. How we do that is up to each of us. I can't decide for you, nor you for me. (Unlike congresspeople, who think they can decide for everybody.)
But this totalitarian runaway truck is never going to stop unless we stop it, in any way we can. Stopping it might include any number of things: tax resistance; public civil disobedience; wide-scale, silent non-cooperation; highly noisy non-cooperation; boycotts; secession efforts; monkey-wrenching; computer hacking; dirty tricks against government agents; public shunning of employees of abusive government agencies; alternative, self-sufficient communities that provide their own medical care and utilities.
There are thousands of avenues to take, and this is something most of us still need to give more thought to before we can build an effective resistance. We will each choose the courses that are right for our own circumstances, personalities and beliefs.
Whatever we do, though, we must remember that we are all, already, outlaws. Not one of us can be certain of getting through a single day without violating some law or regulation we've never even heard of. We are all guilty in the eyes of today's "law." If someone in power chooses to target us, we can all, already, be prosecuted for *something*.
And I'm sure you know that your claims of "good intentions" won't protect you, as the similar claims of politicians protect them. Politicians are above the law. YOU are under it. Crushed under it.
When you look at it that way, we have little left to lose by breaking laws *creatively and purposefully*. Yes, some of us will suffer horrible consequences for our lawbreaking. It is very risky to actively resist unbridled power. It is especially risky to go public with resistance (unless hundreds of thousands publicly join us), and it becomes riskier the closer we get to tyranny. For that reason, among many others, I would never recommend any particular course of action to anyone -- and I hope you'll think twice before taking "advice" from anybody about things that could jeopardize your life or well-being.
But if we don't resist in the best ways we know how -- and if a good number of us don't resist loudly and publicly -- all of us will suffer the much worse consequence of living under total oppression.
And whatever courses of action we choose, we must remember that this legislative "revolution" against We the People will not be stopped by politeness. It will not bestopped by requests. It will not be stopped by "working within a system" governed by those who regard us as nothing but cattle. It will not be stopped by pleading for justice from those who will resort to any degree of trickery or violence to rule us.
It will not be stopped unless we are willing to risk our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honors to stop it.
I think of the words of Winston Churchill: "If you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed, if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not so costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance for survival. There may be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no chance of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves."
Socialist ass-hats think "There will be no more money when the U.S. dollar has no value, until that time we can keep printing more." And yes, that IS from LF's answer to Ben Bernanke, go65, leading disfunctional and delusional socialist of the forum.
"You want me to kill THE ENEMIES of Jappos, I'll kill THE ENEMIES of Jappos, Rebs, or Sioux, or Cheyenne... For 500 bucks a month I'll kill whoever you want. But keep one thing in mind: I'd happily kill you for free." Algren, "The Last Samurai"
#14. To: hondo68 (#0)
#15. To: sneakypete (#6) (Edited)
Once the announcement is made that we are going to a "Cash-Free Society" or that the 2nd Amendment is being annulled,it's game on for me.
IMO they're never going to come out and announce either. It will continue incrementally. It'll keep getting harder and harder to get arms and ammo, and less places will accept cash.
There will never be an official announcement like... we're going to be F'n with Sneakypete today, taking his guns and cash, and issuing a homie credit card.
"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul
I recall a re-run of MASH I saw where this uber right winger named Colonel Flagg...
Godwinson posted on 2011-02-23 11:47:32 ET
http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=18011&Disp=46#C46
#16. To: buckeroo (#7) (Edited)
Working within a failed political system? Your vote is worthless anymore. There is no political party that you can rely on or cling to for renewed capabilities for any reformation of government. The largest reason is that there are no voter qualifications to be found, anywhere.
Sounds like you are ready to move to the voting with bullets level.
I'm not there yet,and won't go there until and unless I am backed into a corner with no other options. Once you kill somebody you can't unkill them. They are dead forever.
In the meantime I will continue to try working within the system to convince people to take a political stand and hold the politicians heels to the fire. If I am successful,GREAT! If I'm not successful,I'm not out a thing.
As long as you remain at option 1 you have choices. You can make adjustments to your strategy and hope to be successful. If worse comes to worse you can always go to option 2.
The biggest problem with going to option 2 is that once you go there there is no going back to option 1 until the revolution is over.
If I ever do go that far,I may be the most reluctant revolutionary in history.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
#17. To: Rudgear (#8)
Which is why you go back to the founders vision. Jettison egalitarianism and permit only those with a vested interest in maintaining the Constitutional authority in this land, i.e. land and property owners, military and career professionals vote. No one else. Especially not welfare recipients.
A BIG AMEN to that!
And if it happens it will start to happen at the grass roots level with people like us. WE have to teach OUR children to have pride for accomplishments achieved,not just being born. We also need to teach them right from wrong and a sense of shame for doing wrong. Then we need to instill in them a sense of duty that includes passing these traits on to others.
We have to do it at the grass roots level by taking over local school boards so OUR side has some influence on what is taught and how it is taught. THIS is how the left took over this country. They started at the local elementary and high school level by infiltrating the teachers colleges and the school boards.
If we start doing this instead of home schooling,we can make a difference.
That's just the beginning,but if you/we/they don't start at this basic level nothing will ever be accomplished at a higher level.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
#18. To: go65, buckeroo, all (#10)
So the foreigners who own tons of our real estate get to vote, while those who rent do not?Seriously?
No. BTW,people like you are a perfect example of why we need to take over the school boards and the teachers colleges. I have no doubt you have a college degree,and you went to school all those years and never even learned how to reason.
Rich foreigners won't be able to vote because they aren't citizens.
I am NOT slamming you,I am just pointing out that this is so basic and so obvious nobody that grew up in this country and was educated beyond the 5th grade should even consider asking questions like that.
YOU even know better yourself. You just couldn't be bothered to think about it because all the noise of your political dogma barking drowned out the voice of reason.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
#19. To: sneakypete, Rudgear (#17)
property owners
If they do that. Then I'm going to buy some land and sell one square foot lots.
#20. To: hondo68 (#15)
IMO they're never going to come out and announce either.
I disagree. I am 100% convinced that what is happening is happening by design in order to have society crash to the point where a state of anarchy exists so that Steve and Sarah Sheeple start screaming for the government to "Do something! Do ANYTHNG,BUT MAKE US SAFE!"
The end result of this will be a call to disarm the populace to and go to a cash free society in order to reduce crime. Face it,most crime is based on cash,and the crime that is for jealousy or revenge usually involves weapons of one type or another. Just going to a cash-free society alone will probably eliminate 90% of the crime.
And when they do this the people will stand up and applaud them unless they are educated to what is going on and open their eyes first.
Yeah,a cash-free economy WILL eliminate maybe 90% of the crime and make people safer. There is no way to argue with that because it's true.
The argument you CAN make is that giving up your freedoms and becoming serfs of the state is a poor tradeoff for your freedoms.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
#21. To: A K A Stone (#19)
property ownersIf they do that. Then I'm going to buy some land and sell one square foot lots.
Good luck with that. Most people don't even vote right now,and it's free.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
#22. To: sneakypete (#21)
Ever heard. Don't know what you got til it's gone?
#23. To: A K A Stone (#22)
Ever heard. Don't know what you got til it's gone?
Heard it????? I live it.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
#24. To: sneakypete (#23)
Heard it????? I live it.
What do you miss, if I may ask?
#25. To: sneakypete, A K A Stone (#23)
-------------------------------------
Why don't you make like a tree and get out of here?
#26. To: Biff Tannen, sneakypete, cz82, Murron (#25)
Here listen to this.
#27. To: A K A Stone (#26)
omg, the hair!!! and the Pagey double-neck Gibson!!!!
You don't know what you got, until you looooose it.
-------------------------------------
Why don't you make like a tree and get out of here?
#28. To: A K A Stone (#26)
Don't know what you got till it's gone
I've never heard of this band, let alone the song, but I'm glad you included me, I liked it, very eerie, prophetic.
#29. To: Murron (#28)
They actually have quite a few good songs. They were from the 80's.
#30. To: sneakypete (#18)
Rich foreigners won't be able to vote because they aren't citizens.
So what's the point of granting land owners the right to vote when so much of the land is owned by foreigners and banks?
I really have no idea what you think you will accomplish.
"Thats because your basically and idiot.
Badeye posted on 2011-04-29 10:30:22 ET
#31. To: go65 (#30)
So what's the point of granting land owners the right to vote when so much of the land is owned by foreigners and banks?
I am not surprised a One World cretin like you doesn't understand why only citizens should be able to vote.
I really have no idea what you think you will accomplish.
Obviously being an American means nothing to you,unless it is shame.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
#32. To: sneakypete (#31)
I got my ballot in the mail today for the May election here. I like the Oregon system for vote by mail. It creates a great turn out and has great safe guards to insure the voter who is supposed to fill it out and sign it is the only one that does.
I hope this format becomes more common in the future.
#33. To: Ferret Mike (#32)
I got my ballot in the mail today for the May election here. I like the Oregon system for vote by mail. It creates a great turn out.....
I'm sure it does. People can move and vote several times before election day.
and has great safe guards to insure the voter who is supposed to fill it out and sign it is the only one that does.
So what? What does it do to prevent illegal aliens,non-citizens,non-residents,dead people,imaginary people like Disney characters,and people from voting from multiple addresses?
High voter turn out should never be the goal. LEGITIMATE voters should be the goal.
I realize this would reap havoc on places like Chicago,Philly,Detroit,and other Dim enclaves,but it needs to be done.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
#34. To: sneakypete, hondo68 (#16)
I'm not there yet,and won't go there until and unless I am backed into a corner with no other options. Once you kill somebody you can't unkill them. They are dead forever.In the meantime I will continue to try working within the system to convince people to take a political stand and hold the politicians heels to the fire. If I am successful,GREAT! If I'm not successful,I'm not out a thing.
In my post #7, re: your post#6, I intentionally ignored your option #2. Let us take a peek at it for another moment, before it is lost in the Internet cloud:
2: Pick up your rifle and go into politics.
Once option 2 is picked there is no going back. Many people will die and many more will suffer greatly. I will always resist option 2 as long as I have the option to resist it. Once people start coming after me with rifles is when I will pick mine up,and if I am ever forced to do that I will show no mercy.
Which means that I will stick with option 1 as long as it remains an option. Once the announcement is made that we are going to a "Cash-Free Society" or that the 2nd Amendment is being annulled,it's game on for me. Up until that time I am going to stick with the voting with a ballot process.
You are too late. Even option #2 may have expired. Now, turn your eyes back to BIG_BROTHER on TV and keep your mouth shut.
#35. To: buckeroo (#34)
You are too late. Even option #2 may have expired.
LOL! Ok,if you say so.
BTW,if I am mistaken and by "too late" you mean the fascists have already won and it is too late to fight.",my response is it is NEVER too late to fight. Winning is nice,but not essential. What is essential is that your cause be just and you no other options than to fight.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
#36. To: sneakypete (#35)
BTW,if I am mistaken and by "too late" you mean the fascists have already won and it is too late to fight.
"Resistance is futile" to use a borrowed term from Star Trek days (sequencing The_Borgs) but be my guest and try.
A) Increasing business transactions ARE by electronic methods (cashless) these days and shall continue in this way into the future.
B) Increasing federal/state/local codes/laws/insurance requirements/rules/regulations/restrictions ARE occurring to control or limit the possession/procurement/use of firearms and shall continue in this way into the future.
It is the analogy of the lobster in the pot being roasted to death. Little by little, you can't feel the changes until the very end. And then, despite, all your screaming, it is too late.
#37. To: sneakypete, hondo68 (#35) (Edited)
Back to your post on #6:
Once the announcement is made that we are going to a "Cash-Free Society" or that the 2nd Amendment is being annulled,it's game on for me.
As a preface to this post directed towards you, I have always enjoyed your posts even if I don't post much in agreement or otherwise; I think our largest disagreements has been with respect to the IRA as you take an entirely contrary position as myself. But, I want to comment on this above naive statement by yourself as it is deceptive what I know to be of and about your good character and provides a sense of ignorance about yourself that I don't think has ever been revealed before since 1998 until now on several forums.
To begin with, the days of making an official proclamation by any organized government body are over with the singular exception about personalities in the official government arena called "elected government." It is nothing more than a charlatan show of sometimes new bright, pretty smiles all the way to the bank for personal wealth and power and if nothing else the personal lavish of all the "perks" that society offers to these high&mighty officials. It makes the masses "feel" a change has occurred because of their exercise of punching a chad at the ballot box.
You know there is no "officiating" change of policy&procedure, too. It is a creeping or gradual change towards only one goal: the usurpation of individual rights, liberties and freedoms and you know this is true because of the HUGE growth of government on all levels; in fact, where have you sen ANY level of government relinquish control over its POWER about individuals in America? It isn't a rhetorical question as it aimed towards the nexus of and about your own statement that I have re-quoted in this post.
As a clear example: where is a formal declaration of war for Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Vietnam and as far back as Korea and literally hundreds of other skirmishes, police actions, hostiles actions, humanitarian efforts and yada yada yada that America is created around the world? There are none PERIOD other than some weak funding by either omission or commission of Congress.
But for the People of America, there hasn't been any officiating or formal declaration of War by Congress since WW2. And, herein is why I think your own statement is either oblivious to what is going on around you or that maybe you just didn't make yourself clear. Let me repeat your incredibly over-simplified statement for your own reference:
Once the announcement is made that we are going to a "Cash-Free Society" or that the 2nd Amendment is being annulled,it's game on for me.
Pete, tell me you said a silly statement without thinking. Just tell me that it was foolish and retract it as you are leading piles of People into harm's way by having them believe there is ever going to be some formalized statement by government that performs those declaration(s) and you know it, too.
#38. To: buckeroo (#37)
Pete, tell me you said a silly statement without thinking. Just tell me that it was foolish and retract it as you are leading piles of People into harm's way by having them believe there is ever going to be some formalized statement by government that performs those declaration(s) and you know it, too.
I disagree with your premise. You are comparing apples and oranges.
The government will issue a proclamation they are going to a cashless society in response to public calls for them to "Do something! Do ANYTING,but make us safe!". Which falls right into line with their plans.
And there is nothing unique about this. Several years ago they announced no more checks for Social Security and VA disability checks. It would all be done through electronic banking.
I understand they are even doing this now with welfare,food stamps,and other welfare payments.
Besides,it would be impossible for them to go to a cashless society without making public announcements. Citizens and non-citizens will have to register for a unique credit and debit number,for one thing. Can't use SS numbers for this because that would be illegal.
Banks,credit unions,phone companies,electric companies,etc,etc,etc would have to set up a whole new billing and collection system,and I am sure there are other complications I haven't even considered that would have to be dealt with.
Not to mention the inevitable grace period allowing people to turn in their cash for credits and pay income tax on the previously hidden cash with no penalties or interest.
The fact that it would be impossible to cheat the government out of taxes in a cash free society convinces it WILL happen. There is no way the gubbermint is going to continue to bypass a sure fire method of extracting their pound of flesh from the taxpayers that don't have the wealth or connections needed to avoid having to pay taxes.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
#39. To: buckeroo, sneakypete (#36)
It is the analogy of the lobster in the pot being roasted to death. Little by little, you can't feel the changes until the very end. And then, despite, all your screaming, it is too late.
Who is John Galt?
Tag line: I wuz HACKED, cuz I SAY so!
#40. To: Ferret Mike (#32)
I got my ballot in the mail today for the May election here. I like the Oregon system for vote by mail. It creates a great turn out and has great safe guards to insure the voter who is supposed to fill it out and sign it is the only one that does.I hope this format becomes more common in the future.
Response?
All I can think of is the old woman, smoking a pipe, laughing, at the river crossing ferry in the movie "Outlaw Jose Wales".
Tag line: I wuz HACKED, cuz I SAY so!
#41. To: Wood_Chopper (#39) (Edited)
A literary character who, in a spectacular feat of technology, hijacked the airwaves and then proceeded to give the most boring speech ever recorded in modern history...
Oh...he also fucked Dagney Taggert after she was raped by Hank Reardon...
America...My Kind Of Place...
#42. To: war (#41)
Dagney Taffert
Taggert, ya moron.
Tag line: I wuz HACKED, cuz I SAY so!
#43. To: Wood_Chopper (#42)
Typo...thanks...
America...My Kind Of Place...
#44. To: war (#43)
Typo...thanks...
OK. Now, I await to point out your next speling mistake.
Tag line: I wuz HACKED, cuz I SAY so!
#45. To: Wood_Chopper (#39)
Who is John Galt?
Who is Winston Smith?
#46. To: buckeroo (#45)
Ask O'Brien...he was the last one to see him...
America...My Kind Of Place...
#47. To: Wood_Chopper (#44)
Chuckles...isn't that Padlock's job?
America...My Kind Of Place...
#48. To: war, buckeroo (#46)
Huh? What?
Tag line: I wuz HACKED, cuz I SAY so!
#49. To: war (#47)
Chuckles...isn't that Padlock's job?
I'm not padlock.
I'm also not Fred. Nor war.
Tag line: I wuz HACKED, cuz I SAY so!
#50. To: Wood_Chopper (#49)
Isn't everyone who's not Yukon everyone else?
America...My Kind Of Place...
#51. To: war (#50)
Isn't everyone who's not Yukon everyone else?
That's pretty much impossible to argue against.
Tag line: I wuz HACKED, cuz I SAY so!
#52. To: war (#46)
Excellent reply.
#53. To: war (#41)
(W_C)Who is John Galt?(war)A literary character
have you looked about you?
Tag line: I wuz HACKED, cuz I SAY so!
#54. To: Wood_Chopper (#53)
I always check my sixes...why?
America...My Kind Of Place...
#55. To: war (#54)
I always check my sixes...why?
No reason. Carry on.
Tag line: I wuz HACKED, cuz I SAY so!
#56. To: sneakypete (#38)
buckeroo, pleading for Pete to have some dignity: Pete, tell me you said a silly statement without thinking. Just tell me that it was foolish and retract it as you are leading piles of People into harm's way by having them believe there is ever going to be some formalized statement by government that performs those declaration(s) and you know it, too.
Again, as I have said up the thread, I have never seen you so excited and here you are disagreeing with me based on your lack of substance. Let's further examine your attempt at rebuttals, shall we?
I disagree with your premise. You are comparing apples and oranges.
Now, you are just using common jargon to suggest I am confused by your own statements of waiting for a formal declaration by government authorities to remove certain individual rights and dignities. You have little by using colliquial jargon, too.
The government will issue a proclamation they are going to a cashless society in response to public calls for them to "Do something! Do ANYTING,but make us safe!". Which falls right into line with their plans.
Pete, pete, pete please dispense with the nonsense; you are driving me into riveting belly laffter normally reserved for clowns that don't have a clue to the world around us. With the US Social Security Act, the SSN was never to be used for personal information purposes. Yet, look around us from tax filing, to credit cards to bank loans to property loans and a personal checking account, your SSN is required for EVERYTHING in business transactions. The limits of cash payments for business are decreasing from the DHS requirements to report any transactions of $10,000 and above, too. In fact, there was a recent 1099 requirement by the 0bama Medical Plan to report ALL transactions to the IRS above 600 bucks (although temporarily rescinded), the US government has continuously searched for ways and methods to speed rapid tracability of cash transactions.
You can't get a REAL job in America without a SSN. You can't get paid without a SSN; you can't legitimitely own a car without a SSN. You are tracked EVERYWHERE to include your private property tax rolls based on a SSN. Of course, that assumes you are working within the system.
And most Americans work within the system. And for business transactions ALL government and private and often personal transactions are electronic in nature. I don't even receive a paycheck anymore; I receive a paper receipt that the funds were electronically transferred to my bank account wherein I dole out the funds further towards all payments by electronic transactions; I rarely use a post stamp or a paper check anymore and this is true for most Americans living in the modern world. The system is easy to track and easy to to discover errors but it is all designed without the end consumer in mind. In fact, electronic fund transfers are for easy government intrusion and a method to obscure or cloud the rate of inflation, a true tax upon the American People because of the failure of modern government.
And there is nothing unique about this. Several years ago they announced no more checks for Social Security and VA disability checks. It would all be done through electronic banking.
It is ease of disbursement, allows easy tracking and minimises costs.
I understand they are even doing this now with welfare,food stamps,and other welfare payments.
I hear that food stamps are now via a debit card issued by the USDA. No paper at all.
Besides,it would be impossible for them to go to a cashless society without making public announcements. Citizens and non-citizens will have to register for a unique credit and debit number,for one thing. Can't use SS numbers for this because that would be illegal.
That has already happened, pal. It is YOUR SSN.
Banks,credit unions,phone companies,electric companies,etc,etc,etc would have to set up a whole new billing and collection system,and I am sure there are other complications I haven't even considered that would have to be dealt with.
Your SSN tags you uniquely as I have already explained.
Not to mention the inevitable grace period allowing people to turn in their cash for credits and pay income tax on the previously hidden cash with no penalties or interest.
Not many people carry large piles of cash these days. The keys are in their personal accounts based on their unique and verifiable SSN.
The fact that it would be impossible to cheat the government out of taxes in a cash free society convinces it WILL happen. There is no way the gubbermint is going to continue to bypass a sure fire method of extracting their pound of flesh from the taxpayers that don't have the wealth or connections needed to avoid having to pay taxes.
It has ALREADY happened as I explained; it isn't going to happen; it HAS HAPPENED. A few bucks for traveling expenses and pocket change is incidental to the whole point and minimizes the impact of how the system works today.
You have lost this discussion, Pete. Please retract your comment about some formal method of announcement by government taking your rights, liberties and freedoms.
#57. To: war (#54)
(W_C)have you looked about you?(war)I always check my sixes...why?
btw, what you should be looking for is right in front of your face.
Tag line: I wuz HACKED, cuz I SAY so!
#58. To: buckeroo (#56)
Now, you are just using common jargon to suggest I am confused by your own statements of waiting for a formal declaration by government authorities to remove certain individual rights and dignities. You have little by using colliquial jargon, too.
Oh,BullBush! You were throwing everything into the mix,including the kitchen sink. Most of it irrelevant.
With the US Social Security Act, the SSN was never to be used for personal information purposes.
Other than the exemption for personal identification to the SS Administration,you are correct.
Yet, look around us from tax filing, to credit cards to bank loans to property loans and a personal checking account, your SSN is required for EVERYTHING in business transactions.
No,it's not. Yes,all those organizations ASK you for your SS number,but you do NOT have to provide it. If you ask for it you will be given a unique number (blanking out the formal name of it right at this minute) to identify your accounts that is not your SS number. Granted,"damn at the difference!" applies here because no matter how many of these account numbers that banks and other institutions give you,they will all end up linked back to your SS at the federal level.
The limits of cash payments for business are decreasing from the DHS requirements to report any transactions of $10,000 and above, too.
Can you say "Thank you,alleged War on Drugs!"? BTW,was this or was this not announced publicly?
In fact, there was a recent 1099 requirement by the 0bama Medical Plan to report ALL transactions to the IRS above 600 bucks (although temporarily rescinded), the US government has continuously searched for ways and methods to speed rapid tracability of cash transactions
Which just proves my point. They will eventually take the ultimate step of eliminating cash altogether,thereby totally eliminating tax cheating. The state will ALWAYS be able to get their pound of flesh AS WELL AS MONITOR YOUR EVERY MOVEMENT WHILE HAVING THE ABILITY TO SHUT YOU DOWN INSTANTLY IF THEY WISH once this plan is in effect. Want to organize a protest in DC? Won't happen because the government will have the instant ability to make you and everyone connected to you digitally disappear. Which means you won't even be able to buy a cup of coffee or a gallon of gas to go to DC because all of your money disappeared at the same time you did. ALL you will be able to do is call a toll free number to tell the police where to come to pick you up.
you can't legitimitely own a car without a SSN.
Not true. You are confusing theory and fact.
Of course, that assumes you are working within the system.
In a cashless society,EVERYBODY will be working within the system because it will be impossible to do otherwise.
BUT......,what does ANY of this have to do with what I was discussing? Other than the sentence immediately above this,that is?
Hell,as much ranting and raving as you are doing about SS and SS numbers,they have nothing to do with what I was talking about.
The new digital system they will come up with for debit and credit accounts will replace SS numbers,and be MUCH more oppressive. For example,you won't even be able to buy a few gallons of paint at the local building supply to paint your house without presenting a permit from the city or county showing you have bought a permit from the local tax and building departments stating the work you are doing and who has been hired to do it. If you are doing it yourself you will have to state you are doing it yourself. If you are having someone else do it,you will have to submit his business ID number or personal credit number that your debit account will be transferring the credits to in order to pay him.
That way your local authorities get their taxes for the home improvements,and the state and feral government will get their cut in taxes.
And don't think you will be able to get away with claiming you are going to do this work yourself and then have someone else do it cheaper for cash under the table. There will be no cash. Only debits and credits.
And most Americans work within the system.
ALL Americans will work within the new system. They won't have any choice because the new system will have total control over all money. You either go through the system,or you don't get paid. Period.
I receive a paper receipt that the funds were electronically transferred to my bank account
I do,too.
wherein I dole out the funds further towards all payments by electronic transactions;I rarely use a post stamp or a paper check anymore and this is true for most Americans living in the modern world.
I try to avoid doing this if at all possible. I used to do it regularly,but the more I thought about it the less I like the idea of putting The Borg in charge of everything. Plus,there are real humans out there that have jobs that rely on manning a counter and taking cash or check payments from customers. I now go to the business if possible to pay my bill by cash or check,and if I can't do that I mail them a check or money order.
This is not always possible because some vendors insist on being paid using PayPal or some other electronic form of payment,and won't accept checks or even money orders. If I can,I use money orders instead of electronic transfers from my checking account for purchases like this. If I can't,I use PayPal and don't worry about it.
Besides,it would be impossible for them to go to a cashless society without making public announcements. Citizens and non-citizens will have to register for a unique credit and debit number,for one thing. Can't use SS numbers for this because that would be illegal.
That has already happened, pal. It is YOUR SSN.
Wrong. If you think that is true,you really don't understand what I am talking about. Either that or you do understand,and are more interested in preaching than discussing.
There is even a possibility you are working at minimizing the danger to individual freedoms the cashless society represents by trying to convince people it will be nothing more serious than what they are living under now.
Your SSN tags you uniquely as I have already explained.
And as *I* have already explained,that is bullshit. It is illegal for your SSN to be used to identify you for any purpose other than for Social Security purposes,and no bank or other financial institution has the right to demand you give them your SS number. As I wrote before,banks are even required to issue you a unique depositor number if you ask for it. Most people don't bother to ask because most people don't think it's a big deal.
It has ALREADY happened as I explained; it isn't going to happen; it HAS HAPPENED.
Ok,that settles it. You really are doing the work of a government disinformation agent here. "Go to sleep little sheeples,nothing to see here. Move on."
You have lost this discussion, Pete. Please retract your comment about some formal method of announcement by government taking your rights, liberties and freedoms.
Uhhhh,yeah. ROFLMAO!
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
#59. To: sneakypete (#58)
Ok,that settles it. You really are doing the work of a government disinformation agent here.
Well, I just pulled out my original 1965 SS card that I signed for; it is still in mint condition, too.
It reads: "FOR SOCIAL SECURITY AND FOR TAX PURPOSES - NOT FOR IDENTIFICATION" at the bottom of the paper card, sized for a standard pocket billfold to be carried everywhere.
The SSN BS has evolved into ALL the major financial and credit markets, too, FOR IDENTIFICATION PURPOSES. You can't get away from it unless you are living on the street begging for free change.
Sorry about the delay in response, that card was placed in a box way up in the garage's rafters called "OLD_STUFF." You are addressing less than one percent of the issues, Pete. The US government along with all state governments and agencies have YOU pwned already. Sorry about letting the cat out of the bag on this fine day.
#60. To: sneakypete (#58)
One more point, Pete. Your SSN identifies you for EVERYTHING as I already told you. In fact, today it is encouraged by all new mother's to acquire their children's SSN as quickly as possible. A chronology of events about the SSN from the Social Security Administration:
Skip to content Social Security Online History www.socialsecurity.gov Home | FAQs | Contact Us | Text Size HomeFAQsContact Us Online FeedbackFraud ReportsBy phoneBy mailIn personOutside the U.S.EmployersJob SeekersAbout UsText Size StandardMediumLarge Search
History Home This is an archival or historical document and may not reflect current policies or procedures
Social Security Numbers Social Security Number Chronology
1935 The Social Security Act (P.L. 74-271) is enacted. It did not expressly mention the use of SSNs, but it authorized the creation of some type of record keeping scheme. Treasury Decision 4704, a Treasury regulation in 1936 which required the issuance of an account number to each employee covered by the Social Security program. The Social Security Board considered various numbering systems and ways (such as metal tags, etc.) by which employees could indicate they had been issued a number
1936-1937 Approximately 30 million applications for SSNs were processed between November 1936 and June 30, 1937. 1943 Executive Order 9397 (3 CFR (1943-1948 Comp.) 283-284) required:
All Federal components to use the SSN "exclusively" whenever the component found it advisable to set up a new identification system for individuals. The Social Security Board to cooperate with Federal uses of the number by issuing and verifying numbers for other Federal agencies
1961 The Civil Service Commission adopted the SSN as an official Federal employee identifier.
Internal Revenue Code Amendments (P.L. 87-397) required each taxpayer to furnish identifying number for tax reporting. 1962 The Internal Revenue Service adopted the SSN as its official taxpayer identification number. 1964 Treasury Department, via internal policy, required buyers of Series H savings bonds to provide their SSNs. 1965 Internal Revenue Amendments (P.L. 89-384) enacted Medicare. It became necessary for most individual s age 65 and older to have an SSN. 1966 The Veterans Administration began to use the SSN as the hospital admissions number and for patient record keeping. 1969 The Department of Defense adopted the SSN in lieu of the military service number for identifying Armed Forces personnel. 1970 Bank Records and Foreign Transactions Act (P.L. 91-508) required all banks, savings and loan associations, credit unions and brokers/dealers in securities to obtain the SSNs of all of their customers. Also, financial institutions were required to file a report with the IRS, including the SSN of the customer, for any transaction involving more than $10,000. 1971 SSA task force report published which proposed that SSA take a "cautious and conservative" position toward SSN use and do nothing to promote the use of the SSN as an identifier. The report recommended that SSA
Use mass SSN enumeration in schools as a long-range, cost-effective approach to tightening up the SSN system, and Consider cooperating with specific health, education and welfare uses of the SSN by State, local, and other nonprofit organizations.
1972 Social Security Amendments of 1972 (P.L. 92-603):
Required SSA to issue SSNs to all legally admitted aliens at entry and of anyone receiving or applying for any benefit paid for by Federal funds; Required SSA to obtain evidence to establish age, citizenship, or alien status and identity. Authorized SSA to enumerate children at the time they first entered school.
1973 Buyers of series E savings bonds are required by the Treasury Department to provide their SSNs.
Report of the HEW Secretary's Advisory Committee on Automated Personal Data System concluded that the adoption of a universal identifier by this country was not desirable; also found that the SSN was not suitable for such a purpose as it does not meet the criteria of a universal identifier that distinguishes a person from all others. 1974 Privacy Act (P.L. 93-579) enacted effective September 27, 1975 to limit governmental use of the SSN:
Provided that no State or local government agency may withhold a benefit from a person simply because the individual refuses to furnish his or her SSN. Required that Federal, State and local agencies which request an individual to disclose his/her SSN inform the individual if disclosure was mandatory or voluntary. (This was the first mention of SSN use by local governments.)
1975 Social Services Amendments of 1974 (P.L. 93-647) provided that:
disclosure of an individual's SSN is a condition of eligibility for AFDC benefits; and Office of Child Support enforcement Parent Locator Service may require disclosure of limited information (including SSN and whereabouts) contained in SSA records.
1976 Tax Reform Act of 1976 (P.L. 94-455) included the following amendments to the Social Security Act:
To allow use by the States of the SSN in the administration of any tax, general public assistance, driver's license or motor vehicle registration law within their jurisdiction and to authorize the States to require individuals affected by such laws to furnish their SSNs to the States; To make misuse of the SSN for any purpose a violation of the Social Security Act; To make, under federal law, unlawful disclosure or compelling disclosure of the SSN of any person a felony, punishable by fine and/or imprisonment. To amend section 6109 of the Internal Revenue Code to provide that the SSN be used as the tax identification number (TIN) for all tax purposes. While the Treasury Department had been using the SSN as the TIN by regulation since 1962, this law codified that requirement. Federal Advisory Committee on False Identification recommended that penalties for misuse should be increased and evidence requirements tightened; rejected the idea of national identifier and did not even consider the SSN for such a purpose.
1977 Food Stamp Act of 1977 (P.L. 96-58) required disclosure of SSNs of all household members as a condition of eligibility for participation in the food stamp program.
Privacy Protection Study Commission recommended that:
No steps be taken towards developing standard, universal label for individuals until safeguards and policies regarding permissible uses and disclosures were proven effective; and Executive Order 9397 be amended so that Federal agencies could no longer use it as legal authority to require disclosure of an individual's SSN. (No action taken.) The Carter Administration proposed that the Social Security card be one of the authorized documents by which an employer could be assured that a job applicant could work in this country but also stated that the SSN card should not become a national identity document.
1978 SSA required evidence of age, citizenship, and identity of all SSN applicants. 1981 Reagan Administration stated that it "is explicitly opposed to the creation of a national identity card" but recognized the need for a means for employers to comply with the employer sanctions provisions of its immigration reform legislation.
Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1981 (P.L. 97-35) required the disclosure of the SSNs of all adult members in the household of children applying to the school lunch program.
Social Security Benefits Act (P.L. 97-123)
Section 4 added alteration and forgery of a Social Security card to the list of prohibited acts and increased the penalties for such acts. Section 6 required any Federal, State or local government agency to furnish the name and SSN of prisoners convicted of a felony to the Secretary of HHS, to enforce suspension of disability benefits to certain imprisoned felons. Department of Defense Authorization Act (P.L. 97-86) required disclosure of the SSNs to the Selective Service System of all individuals required to register for the draft.
1982 Debt Collection Act (P.L. 97-365) required that all applicants for loans under any Federal loan program furnish their SSNs to the agency supplying the loan.
All Social Security cards issued to legal aliens not authorized to work within the United States were annotated "NOT VALID FOR EMPLOYMENT" beginning in May. 1983 The Social Security Amendments of 1983 (P.L. 98-21) required that new and replacement Social Security cards issued after October 30 be made of banknote paper and (to the maximum extent practicable) not be subject to counterfeiting.
The Interest and Dividend Tax Compliance Act (P.L. 98-67) requires SSNs for all interest-bearing accounts and provides a penalty of $50 for all individuals who fail to furnish a correct TIN (usually the SSN). 1984 Deficit Reduction Act of 1984 (P.L. 98-369)
Amended the Social Security Act to establish an income and eligibility verification system involving State agencies administering the AFDC, Medicaid, unemployment compensation, the food stamp programs, and State programs under a plan approved under title I, X, XIV, or XVI of the Act. States were permitted to require the SSN as a condition of eligibility for benefits under any of these programs. Amended Section 6050I of the IRC to require that persons engaged in a trade or business file a report (including SSNs) with the IRS for cash transactions over $10,000. Amended Section 215 of the IRC to authorize the Secretary of HHS to publish regulations that require a spouse paying alimony to furnish IRS with the taxpayer identification number (i.e., the SSN) of the spouse receiving alimony payments.
1986 The Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 (P.L. 99-603):
Required the Comptroller General to investigate technological changes that could reduce the potential for counterfeiting Social Security cards; Provides that the Social Security card may be used to establish the eligibility of a prospective employee for employment; and Required the Secretary of HHS to undertake a study of the feasibility and costs of establishing an SSN verification system Tax Reform Act of 1986 (P.L. 99-514) required individuals filing a tax return due after December 31, 1987, to include the taxpayer identification number--usually the SSN--of each dependent age 5 or older.
Commercial Motor Vehicle Safety Act of 1986 (P.L. 99-750) authorized the Secretary of Transportation to require the use of the SSN on commercial motor vehicle operators' licenses.
Higher Education Amendments of 1986 (P.L. 99-498) required that student loan applicants submit their SSN as a condition of eligibility.
1987 SSA initiated a demonstration project on August 17 in the State of New Mexico enabling parents to obtain Social Security numbers for their newborn infants automatically when the infant's birth was registered by the State. The program was expanded nationwide in 1989. Currently, all 50 States participate in the program, as well as New York City, Washington, D.C., and Puerto Rico. 1988 Housing and Community Development Act of 1987 (P.L. 100-242) authorized the Secretary of HUD to require disclosure of a person's SSN as a condition of eligibility for any HUD program.
The Family Support Act of 1988 (P.L. 100-485):
Section 125 required, beginning November 1, 1990, a State to obtain the SSNs of the parents when issuing a birth certificate. Section 704(a) required individuals filing a tax return due after December 31, 1989, to include the taxpayer identification number--usually the SSN--of each dependent age 2 or older. The Technical and Miscellaneous Revenue Act of 1988 (P.L. 100-647):
Authorized a State and/or any blood donation facility to use SSNs to identify blood donors (205(c)(2)(F)). Required that all title II beneficiaries either have or have applied for an SSN in order to receive benefits. This provision became effective with dates of initial entitlement of June 1989 or later. Beneficiaries who refused enumeration were entitled but placed in suspense. Anti-Drug Abuse Act of 1988 (P.L. 100-690) deleted the $5,000 and $25,000 upper limits on fines that can be imposed for violations of section 208 of the Social Security Act. The general limit of $250,000 for felonies in the U.S. Code now applied to SSN violations under section 208 of the Social Security Act. Also, penalties for misuse of SSNs apply as well in cases where the number is referred to by any other name (e.g., taxpayer identification number (TIN)).
1989 Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1989 (P.L. 101-239) required that the National Student Loan Data System include, among other things, the names and SSNs of borrowers.
Child Nutrition and WIC Reauthorization Act of 1989 (P.L. 101-147) requires the member of the household who applies for the school lunch program to provide the SSN of the parent of the child for whom the application is made. 1990 Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1990 (P.L. 101-508):
Section 7201 (Computer Matching and Privacy Protection Amendments of 1990) provided that no adverse action may be taken against an individual receiving benefits as a result of a matching program without verification of the information or notification of the individual regarding the findings with time to contest. Section 8053, required an SSN for eligibility for benefits from the Department of Veterans Affairs (DVA). Section 11112, required that individuals filing a tax return due after December 31, 1991, include the taxpayer identification number--usually the SSN--of each dependent age 1 or older. Food and Agricultural Resources Act of 1990 (P.L. 101-624), Section 1735:
Required an SSN for the officers of food and retail stores that redeem Food Stamps. Provided that SSNs maintained as a result of any law enacted on or after October 1, 1990, will be confidential and may not be disclosed.
1994 Social Security Independence and Program Improvements Act of 1994 (P.L. 103-296):
Section 304, authorized the use of the SSN for jury selection. Section 314, authorized cross-matching of SSNs and Employer Identification Numbers maintained by the Department of Agriculture with other Federal agencies for the purpose of investigating both food stamp fraud and violations of other Federal laws. Section 318, authorized the use of the SSN by the Department of Labor in administration of Federal workers' compensation laws.
1996 Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act of 1996 (P.L. 104-193) (Welfare Reform ):
Section 111 required the Commissioner of Social Security to develop and submit to Congress a prototype of a counterfeit-resistant Social Security card that: is made of durable, tamper-resistant material (e.g., plastic); employs technologies that provide security features (e.g., magnetic stripe); and provides individuals with reliable proof of citizenship or legal resident alien status. Section 111 also required the Commissioner of Social Security to study and report to Congress on different methods of improving the Social Security card application process, including evaluation of the cost and workload implications of issuing a counterfeit-resistant Social Security card for all individuals and evaluation of the feasibility and cost implications of imposing a user fee for replacement cards. Section 316 required HHS to transmit to SSA, for verification purposes, certain information about individuals and employers maintained under the Federal Parent Locator Service in an automated directory. SSA is required to verify the accuracy of, correct, or supply to the extent possible, and report to HHS the name, SSN, and birth date of individuals and the employer identification number of employers. SSA is to be reimbursed by HHS for the cost of this verification service. This section also required all Federal agencies (including SSA) to report quarterly the name and SSN of each employee and the wages paid to the employee during the previous quarter. Section 317 provided that State child support enforcement procedures require the SSN of any applicant for a professional license, commercial driver's license, occupational license, or marriage license be recorded on the application. The SSN of any person subject to a divorce decree, support order, or paternity determination or acknowledgement would have to be placed in the pertinent records. SSNs are required on death certificates. Section 451 provided that, in order to be eligible for the Earned Income Tax Credit, an individual must include on his or her tax return an SSN which was not assigned solely for non-work purposes. Department of Defense Appropriations Act, 1997 (P.L. 104-208) ( Division C (Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996) (Immigration Reform)):
Sections 401-404 provided for 3 specific employment verification pilot programs in which employers would voluntarily participate. In general, the pilot programs would allow an employer to confirm the identity and employment eligibility of the individual. SSA and the Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) would provide a secondary verification process to confirm the validity of the information provided. SSA would compare the name and SSN provided and advise whether the name and number match SSA records and whether the SSN is valid for employment. Section 414 required the Commissioner to report to Congress every year, the aggregate number of SSNs issued to noncitizens not authorized to work, but under which earnings were reported. Also required the Commissioner to transmit to the Attorney General a report on the extent to which SSNs and Social Security cards are used by noncitizens for fraudulent purposes. Section 415 authorized the Attorney General to require any noncitizen to provide his or her SSN for purposes of inclusion in any record maintained by the Attorney General or INS. Section 656 provided for improvements in identification-related documents; i.e., birth certificates and driver's licenses. These sections require publication of regulations which set standards, including security features and, in the case of driver's licenses, required that an SSN appear on the license. Federal agencies are precluded from accepting as proof of identity, documents which do not meet the regulatory standards. Section 657 provided for the development of a prototype Social Security card. The requirements were the same as in Section 111 of the Welfare reform legislation (described above) with the exception that the Comptroller General is also to study and report to Congress on different methods of improving the Social Security card application process.
1997 Department of Defense Appropriations Act, 1997 (P.L. 104-208) (Division C--Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996) (Immigration Reform):
Sections 401-404 provided for 3 specific employment verification pilot programs in which employers would voluntarily participate. In general, the pilot programs would allow an employer to confirm the identity and employment eligibility of the individual. SSA and INS would provide a secondary verification process to confirm the validity of the information provided. SSA would compare the name and SSN provided and advise whether the name and number match SSA records and whether the SSN is valid for employment. Section 414 required the Commissioner of Social Security to report to Congress every year the aggregate number of SSNs issued to noncitizens not authorized to work, but under which earnings were reported. Also required the Commissioner of Social Security to transmit to the Attorney General a report on the extent to which SSNs and Social Security cards are used by noncitizens for fraudulent purposes. Section 415 authorized the Attorney General to require any noncitizen to provide his or her SSN for purposes of inclusion in any record maintained by the Attorney General or INS. Section 656 provided for improvements in identification-related documents; i.e., birth certificates and drivers licenses. These sections required publication of regulations which set uniform standards, including security features, and, in the case of drivers licenses, required that an SSN appear on the license. Federal agencies are precluded from accepting as proof of identity documents which do not meet the regulatory standards. Section 657 provided for the development of a prototype Social Security card. The requirements are the same as in Section 111 of the Welfare reform legislation (described above) with the exception that the Comptroller General is also to study and report to Congress on different methods of improving the Social Security card application process. 1997 Taxpayer Relief Act of 1997 (P.L. 105-34)
Section 1090 required an applicant for an SSN under age 18 to provide evidence of his or her parents' names and SSNs in addition to required evidence of age, identity, and citizenship. Report to Congress on "Options for Enhancing the Social Security Card" released on September 22, 1997.
1998
The Omnibus Consolidated and Emergency Supplemental Appropriations Act of 1999 (P.L. 105-277)
Section 362 provided that no funds appropriated for the Department of Transportation (DOT) may be used to issue the final regulations required by section 656(b) of the Illegal Immigration Reform and Responsibility Act of 1996. Section 656(b) prohibited Federal agencies from accepting as proof of identification a drivers license that do not meet standards promulgated by the DOT. The standards include a document that contains a Social Security number that can be read electronically or visually and is in a form that includes security features to limit tampering and counterfeiting. Identity Theft and Assumption Deterrence Act of 1998 (P.L. 105-318)
Makes identity theft (transferring or using another person's means of identification) a crime, subject to penalties. Defines "means of identification" to include name, social security number, date of birth, official State or government issued driver's license or identification number, alien registration number, government passport number, and employer or taxpayer identification number; and Establishes the Federal Trade Commission as a clearinghouse to receive complaints, provide informational materials to victims, and refer complaints to appropriate entities, which may include credit bureaus or law enforcement agencies. Vice President announced new policy to allow victims of domestic violence to change their SSN without proof that the abuser had misused their SSN.
P.L. 105-379 11/12/98 amended the Food Stamp Act, effective June 1, 2000, to require:
Each State agency that administers the food stamp program to enter into a cooperative arrangement with the Commissioner of Social Security under section 205(r) of the Social Security Act to verify whether food stamp recipients are deceased to ensure that benefits are not issued to deceased individuals. The Secretary of Agriculture is to report to Congress and to the Secretary of the Treasury on the progress and effectiveness of the cooperative arrangements established.
1999 October 9, 1999 P.L. 106-69, Department of Transportation (DOT) and Related Agencies Appropriations Act, 2000:
Section 355 repealed section 656(b) of the Illegal Immigration Reform and Responsibility Act of 1996.
December 14, 1999 P.L. 106-169, the Foster Care Independence Act of 1999:
Section 209 deems SSA’s privacy standards meet all State privacy standards for purposes of sharing data.
2000 Social Security Number Confidentiality Act of 2000 (P.L. 106-433):
Section 2 requires the Treasury Secretary to ensure that SSNs are not visible on or through unopened mailings of government checks or other drafts beginning 11/06/03.
2001 DOT and Related Agencies Appropriations Act of 2002 (P.L. 107-87)
Section 311 provides that no recipient of funds via this Act shall disseminate information, including SSNs, obtained by a State DMV except as authorized by law; Effective 12/18/01.
2002 2002 Supplemental Appropriations Act for Further Recovery From and Response to Terrorist Attacks on the United States (P.L. 107-206)
Title I, Chapter 11 provides funds to the Department of Transportation to be used for purposes of coordinating driver’s license registration and SSN verification. Help America Vote Act of 2002 (P.L. 107-252)
Section 244 requires the newly established Election Assistance Commission to submit a report, prepared in consultation with the Commissioner of SSA, not later than 18 months after section 303(a)(5) takes effect. This report will discuss the feasibility and advisability of using SSNs or other information compiled by SSA to establish voter registration or other election law eligibility or identification requirements; the report shall address the matching of relevant information specific to an individual voter, the impact of such use on national security issues, and whether adequate safeguards or waiver procedures exist to protect the privacy of an individual voter. Section 303 requires each State to create a computerized voter registration list, using a unique identifier developed by the state. It also amends the Social Security Act to require the Commissioner to enter into agreements upon the request of the official responsible for a state driver’s license agency to verify the accuracy of certain information regarding applicants (including whether the name, date of birth and SSN of an individual provided to the COSS match the information in SSA’s records and whether such individual is shown as deceased on SSA’s records) for voter registration in Federal elections; effective 01/01/04 except where a waiver applies.
2003 The Basic Pilot Program Extension and Expansion Act of 2003 (P.L. 108-156)
Section 2 extends the operation of the pilot programs for an additional 5 years (to a total of 11 years). Section 3(a) expands the operation of the pilot programs to all 50 States not later than 12/01/04; provides that employers in all States must be able to participate in the pilot program.
2004 The Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Prevention Act of 2004 (P.L. 108-458)
Section 7213:
Not later than one year after the date of enactment, requires the Commissioner of Social Security to: -- Restrict the issuance of multiple replacement Social Security cards to any individual to 3 per year and 10 for the life of the individual. The Commissioner may allow for reasonable exceptions from these limits on a case-by-case basis in compelling circumstances.
-- Establish minimum standards for the verification of documents or records submitted by an individual to establish eligibility for an original or replacement Social Security card, other than for enumeration at birth (EAB).
-- Require independent verification of any birth record submitted by an individual to establish eligibility for a Social Security account number. SSNs assigned through the EAB process are excluded from this requirement. The Commissioner may allow for reasonable exceptions from independent verification on a case-by-case basis in compelling circumstances. Notwithstanding section 205(r) of the Social Security Act and any agreement entered into thereunder, requires the Commissioner to add death indicators to the Social Security number verification systems used by employers and State agencies issuing driver’s licenses and identity cards. The Commissioner may also add death indicators to other verification routines as determined appropriate. The death indicators must be added no later than 18 months after enactment. Requires the Commissioner to add fraud indicators to the Social Security number verification systems used by employers and State agencies issuing drivers' licenses and identity cards. The Commissioner may also add fraud indicators to other verification routines as determined appropriate. The fraud indicators must be added no later than 36 months after enactment. Requires SSA, in consultation with the Department of Homeland Security, to form an interagency task force for the purpose of further improving the security of Social Security cards and numbers. Not later than 18 months after the date of enactment, the task force must establish security requirements, including standards: for safeguarding cards from counterfeiting, tampering, alteration, and theft; for verifying documents submitted for the issuance of replacement cards; and actions towards increasing enforcement against the fraudulent use or issuance of Social Security numbers and cards. The Commissioner is also required to provide for the implementation of these security requirements. Requires the Commissioner to make improvements to the EAB application process as soon as practicable after the date of enactment. These improvements shall be designed to prevent the assignment of Social Security account numbers to unnamed children, the issuance of more than one Social Security number to the same child, and other opportunities for fraudulently obtaining a Social Security number. Not later than one year after enactment, the Commissioner must provide a report to Congress specifying the extent to which these improvements were made. Requires the Commissioner to conduct a study to determine options for ensuring the integrity of the EAB process, including methods to reconcile hospital birth records with birth registrations submitted to State and local agencies and information provided to SSA. Not later than 18 months after enactment, the Commissioner must report to the House Committee on Ways and Means and the Senate Committee on Finance on the results of the EAB study, including recommendations for legislative changes as deemed necessary by the Commissioner. Section 7214:
Prohibits Federal, State, and local governments from displaying SSNs, or any derivative thereof, on drivers' licenses, motor vehicle registrations, or other identification documents issued by State departments of motor vehicles.
2005 The Real ID Act, (P.L. 109-13)
Establishes State driver’s license and identification security standards which requires States to confirm with Social Security a SSN for issuance of a drivers license or identity card
Table last updated 11/09/05
Privacy Policy | Website Policies & Other Important Information | Site Map Need Larger Text? Best matches for ssn required at birth Section 125 required, beginning November 1, 1990, a State to... Jump to text »
YOU CAN"T GET STATE DL WITHOUT A SSN, pal. Without a DL, you can not effectively work or operate freely in America.
As I earlier suggested, you lose this discussion.
#61. To: buckeroo (#59)
The SSN BS has evolved into ALL the major financial and credit markets, too, FOR IDENTIFICATION PURPOSES.
Yes,but only because people have meekly surrendered their SS numbers to anyone that asked. The law hasn't changed,but there is nothing in the law that FORBIDS YOU FROM GIVING IT UP. The law only forbids others from demanding you give it up.
A couple of decades ago the state of Virginia was putting SSN's right on your drivers license or other state-issued ID. Somebody took them to court and they dropped that system and went to unique drivers license numbers.
You can't get away from it unless you are living on the street begging for free change.
Sure you can. All you have to do is ask your bank for a depositor ID/taxpayer ID. Of course if you already have an account at that bank and have already given them your SSN it's a lot like locking the barn after the horse has disappeared.
Sorry about the delay in response, that card was placed in a box way up in the garage's rafters called "OLD_STUFF."
No problem with the delay. You are the one confused about using SSN as ID,not me. I have known that for years. You seem to think I am arguing with you about this for some reason.
You are addressing less than one percent of the issues, Pete.
I am addressing 100% of the issue that YOU brought up. How much more do you want?
The US government along with all state governments and agencies have YOU pwned already. Sorry about letting the cat out of the bag on this fine day.
Turning into quite a little drama queen,aren't you? I have never had a day since I was 17 years old that the US government hasn't had a file on me. I had a top secret clearance while in the army and was involved with covert operations on an active level,and still have a Secret clearance from working as a consultant to the Army within the last 10 years. My name is always going to be on a list,and it doesn't worry me in the slightest. I refuse to give up my SSN to anyone because of the danger of identity theft.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
#62. To: sneakypete (#61)
The law hasn't changed
You didn't read my #60 post in your own honour..... I think you should take on a new monicker such as "JumpingJackFlash" since you can't reflect on what has happened in America.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest
[Home] [Headlines] [Latest Articles] [Latest Comments] [Post] [Mail] [Sign-in] [Setup] [Help] [Register]