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The Water Cooler
See other The Water Cooler Articles

Title: Is Marco Rubio a "Natural Born Citizen"?
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://libertysflame.org
Published: Nov 12, 2010
Author: Me
Post Date: 2010-11-12 19:40:56 by Skip Intro
Keywords: None
Views: 65817
Comments: 74

There has been talk on other sites (hint: Goldi-Lox and LP) about the desirability of Marco Rubio running for president.

Since these sites are also by and large "birther" sites, I want to know if Rubio is considered a "natural born citizen" and if so, why.

Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread  


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#1. To: Skip Intro (#0) (Edited)

If he was born in the US, and his parents had become US citizens and renounced allegiance to Cuba by the time of his birth, he's natural born. He needs to show his parents citizenship papers, and his long form birth certificate.

All that's needed to prove hObama ineligible is a long form birth certificate from ANYWHERE showing that his father is Barack Obama. We already know that he was a British subject, that never became a US citizen.

Hondo68  posted on  2010-11-12   19:59:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: hondo68 (#1)

If he was born in the US, and his parents had become US citizens and renounced allegiance to Cuba by the time of his birth, he's natural born. He needs to show his parents citizenship papers, and his long form birth certificate.

You need to evaluate this according to the "birther" theory of law.

In "real" law, being born on US soil is enough. "Birther" law is another thing entirely, and should be consistent with how it has been applied to Obama.

Skip Intro  posted on  2010-11-12   20:05:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Skip Intro (#2)

In "real" law, being born on US soil is enough

Dead wrong. Check out the 14th amendment.... subject to the jurisdiction thereof (US). Not British jurisdiction, or Kenyan.

Hondo68  posted on  2010-11-12   20:09:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: hondo68 (#3)

I repeat, in "real" law being born on US soil is enough.

Unless you have real proof otherwise - a Supreme Court decision, for example - let's stick to the original question.

Skip Intro  posted on  2010-11-12   20:13:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Skip Intro (#4)

a Supreme Court decision

let's stick to the original question.

US vs Kim Wong Ark. SCOTUS deemed that he was a US citizen, but did NOT say that he was "a natural born US citizen". He was born is the US, but his parents were Chinese citizens. He never became president, or even a candidate.

Mitt Romney is probably ineligible since his father George was Mexican born. It's unknown if or when he became a US citizen. He was governor of Michigan.

Bill Richardson is ineligible since his mother was a Mexican citizen at the time of his birth.

You can't leave law out of this, so it's relevant to the original question.

Hondo68  posted on  2010-11-12   20:33:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: hondo68 (#5)

Getting back to the original question, this is from the US Dept of State Website:

The Government of Cuba does not recognize the U.S. nationality of U.S. citizens who are Cuban-born or are the children of Cuban parents. These individuals will be treated solely as Cuban citizens and may be subject to a range of restrictions and obligations, including military service.

So, is Rubio legally allowed to run for president, again using birther law as the guide?

Skip Intro  posted on  2010-11-12   20:37:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Skip Intro (#6) (Edited)

The Government of Cuba does not recognize the U.S. nationality of U.S. citizens who are Cuban-born or are the children of Cuban parents. These individuals will be treated solely as Cuban citizens and may be subject to a range of restrictions and obligations, including military service.

So, is Rubio legally allowed to run for president, again using birther law as the guide?

No, under Cuban law he's ineligible to be THEIR president, it seems. What has this to do with Rubio's eligibility to be US president?

I cite a US Supreme court decision, and you cite Cuban law. What's up with that? Are you under the jurisdiction of Fidel, Raul?

Sandra Day0 is retired from SCOTUS, so we need not consider Scottish law, or Cuban I dare say.

Hondo68  posted on  2010-11-12   20:55:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: hondo68 (#7)

I cite a US Supreme court decision, and you cite Cuban law. What's up with that?

Because the birthers always cite Kenyan Law or British Law to try and make their case. I agree with you that only US law applies.

Interestingly, the FReepers are having this same discussion about Jindal.

You can read it here.

Skip Intro  posted on  2010-11-12   21:04:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: hondo68 (#3)

Dead wrong. Check out the 14th amendment.... subject to the jurisdiction thereof (US). Not British jurisdiction, or Kenyan.

Jurisdiction means subject to the power of the courts. Basically anyone who can be sued or charged with a crime. So at the time it meant not Indians, or Diplomats. But even today, Indians are now under the jurisdiction so they count.

Rhino  posted on  2010-11-12   21:06:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Skip Intro (#0) (Edited)

Goldi-Lox and LP) about the desirability of Marco Rubio running for president

IMO her new found love of Rubio coincided with his recent suck-up trip to Israel. Probably not the ideal basis for choosing a US president.

Hondo68  posted on  2010-11-12   21:17:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: hondo68 (#5)

US vs Kim Wong Ark. SCOTUS deemed that he was a US citizen, but did NOT say that he was "a natural born US citizen". He was born is the US, but his parents were Chinese citizens. He never became president, or even a candidate.

US V. Wong doesn't decide whether he was a natural born citizen or not. I'm looking at the case in full in WestLaw. The majority opinion never says natural born. The dissent briefly mentions it, but it doesn't outright say he wasn't natural born.

Rhino  posted on  2010-11-12   21:20:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: Skip Intro (#0)

he's not according to those who are arguing that Obama isn't natural born because his father wasn't a citizen.


On January 3, 2011 the GOP assumes responsibility for deficit spending.

go65  posted on  2010-11-12   22:26:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: Rhino (#11)

Constitutional Term

it doesn't outright say he wasn't natural born.

Constitutional
Term

Parents

Conjunction
(And, Or)

Location
of Birth

Conjunction
(And, Or)

Other

Legal Reference

Natural Born Citizen

Both are U. S. Citizens

AND

Born in the U.S. mainland

 

 

US Constitution
Art. II, Sec. 1, Cl. 5

U.S. v. Wong Kim Ark,
169 U.S. 649 (1898)

Minor v. Happersett
(1874) 21 Wall. 162, 166-168

Perkins v. Elg,
307 U.S. 325 (1939)

Citizen
by
Statute

Born to at least 1 US Citizen Parent

OR

Born in the U.S. mainland

OR

Naturalized

US Constitution
14th Amendment,
Sec. 1

U.S. v. Wong Kim Ark,
169 U.S. 649 (1898)

Perkins v. Elg,
307 U.S. 325 (1939)

Native-Born Citizen

 

 

Born in the U.S. mainland

 

 

US Constitution
14th Amendment,
Sec. 1

U.S. v. Wong Kim Ark,
169 U.S. 649 (1898)

Perkins v. Elg,
307 U.S. 325 (1939)

>


Ronald Reagan on the left, Barack Obama on the right.

Much much more... www.theobamafile.com/obamanaturalborn.htm

If you want to be a competent "birther" you've got to study, study, study.

Hondo68  posted on  2010-11-12   22:37:56 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: hondo68, Skip Intro (#10)

IMO her new found love of Rubio coincided with his recent suck-up trip to Israel.

Careful hondope, there may be a Joo under your bed!

Ibluafartsky  posted on  2010-11-12   22:39:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: go65 (#12)

isn't natural born because his father wasn't a citizen.

If true, he's ineligible. No big loss.

Hondo68  posted on  2010-11-12   22:41:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: Ibluafartsky (#14) (Edited)

there may be a Joo under your bed!

Who cares? Only a CT tard like you, would worry about such nonsense.

Hondo68  posted on  2010-11-12   22:45:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: hondo68 (#16)

Who cares?

Why you do, hondope. You openly displayed your concern about Rubio making a trip to Israel? Can you provide a link where you display similar concern for Obama visiting a muslim country?

Ibluafartsky  posted on  2010-11-12   22:48:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: Ibluafartsky, hondo68 (#17)

Can you provide a link where you display similar concern for Obama visiting a muslim country?

What a fake you are yukon. Why should hondo68 waste time on obama. Everyone knows what he is.

hondo68 is working to strengthen a faction that can DEFEAT obama, and you attack him.

If there's anyone here defending obama and the "one party", it's you yukon.

(sneakypete)DID Palin say or write these things or not?

(Mad Dog's reply) I don't know or F ing care.

Pete, MD doesn't know or care what Palin says or writes, he'll support her no matter what.

Wood_Chopper  posted on  2010-11-12   23:00:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: Ibluafartsky (#17) (Edited)

You openly displayed your concern about Rubio making a trip to Israel

A lie. I expressed the opinion that that's not the best basis for choosing a president. Israel is way down on my list of priorities, just above Paliswillian ragheads, which are at the bottom.

Hondo68  posted on  2010-11-12   23:01:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: Wood_Chopper, hondo68 (#18)

What a fake you are yukon.

Why should hondo68 waste time on obama.

hondo68 is working to strengthen a faction

What a fookin delusional moron you are chipped toothed organ-grinder.

He's the fookin POTUS, dumbass!

What "faction" is that? You liebertardian phony 6 percenters are insignificant. The tea party has done and accomplished more in a matter of months than you clueless agitators have accomplished in decades.

Ibluafartsky  posted on  2010-11-12   23:16:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: hondo68, Wood Chopper (#19)

Israel is way down on my list of priorities

So why even bring it into the discussion, HONDOPE? You aren't too bright, are you? Are you and Wood Chipper twins?

Ibluafartsky  posted on  2010-11-12   23:19:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Ibluafartsky (#20) (Edited)

What "faction" is that?

The tea party, yukon.

They don't need RINOs. You know, RINOs. The type that want amnesty, and endorse McCain, like Palin did, and the type like you that defend them.

You seem agitated tonight yukon. Pissed, really. The spittle must be all over your monitor with the personal attacks you've been slinging tonight.

Have you broken any keys on your keyboard while pounding away?

(sneakypete)DID Palin say or write these things or not?

(Mad Dog's reply) I don't know or F ing care.

Pete, MD doesn't know or care what Palin says or writes, he'll support her no matter what.

Wood_Chopper  posted on  2010-11-12   23:29:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: Wood_Chopper (#22)

The tea party, yukon.

You seem agitated tonight yukon.

Put the paint thinner down, asshole. The tea party doesn't need phony jerks like you. You're not even a 6 percenter.

Don't start crying psycho!

Ibluafartsky  posted on  2010-11-12   23:36:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: Ibluafartsky (#23)

Put the paint thinner down, asshole. The tea party doesn't need phony jerks like you. You're not even a 6 percenter.

Don't start crying psycho!

Somebody needs a nap.

(sneakypete)DID Palin say or write these things or not?

(Mad Dog's reply) I don't know or F ing care.

Pete, MD doesn't know or care what Palin says or writes, he'll support her no matter what.

Wood_Chopper  posted on  2010-11-12   23:38:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: Ibluafartsky (#23)

hondo68 is working to strengthen a faction that can DEFEAT obama, and you attack him.

Why do you attack someone who doesn't like obama?

(sneakypete)DID Palin say or write these things or not?

(Mad Dog's reply) I don't know or F ing care.

Pete, MD doesn't know or care what Palin says or writes, he'll support her no matter what.

Wood_Chopper  posted on  2010-11-12   23:39:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: hondo68 (#13)

I'm looking at the full text of Wong right now. The majority opinion doesn't say anything about natural born citizen.

Neither Minor, nor Perkins define natural born citizen.

Rhino  posted on  2010-11-12   23:40:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: Wood_Chopper (#24)

Somebody needs a nap.

Will that stop you from being a delusional, lying POS?

Ibluafartsky  posted on  2010-11-12   23:41:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: Wood_Chopper (#25)

hondo68 is working to strengthen a faction

Cut and paste much, organ grinder?

Ibluafartsky  posted on  2010-11-12   23:43:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: hondo68 (#1)

If he was born in the US, and his parents had become US citizens and renounced allegiance to Cuba by the time of his birth, he's natural born.

If he was born in the U.S., he is a citizen. PERIOD. It has nothing to do with his parents.


"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves is sinful and tyrannical." -- Thomas Jefferson

jwpegler  posted on  2010-11-13   12:27:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: jwpegler (#29) (Edited)

If he was born in the U.S., he is a citizen.

Ah, but the question is NOT if he's a US citizen. To be president you've got to be "a natural born US citizen". Thus the parents enter the picture.

Hondo68  posted on  2010-11-13   13:24:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: hondo68 (#30)

To be president you've got to be "a natural born US citizen". Thus the parents enter the picture.

No. If you born in the U.S. you are a natural born citizen. PERIOD.

This is one reason people so outraged about illegal immigration. Mexican women cross the border illegally, have a baby in the U.S., and that baby is a U.S. citizen.

Rubio was born in Miami, Florida so he is a natural born citizen. He is eligible to run for President.


"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves is sinful and tyrannical." -- Thomas Jefferson

jwpegler  posted on  2010-11-13   14:32:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: jwpegler (#31) (Edited)

The Constitution reads "natural born citizen" for a reason. If they wanted to include all citizens they would have left out "natural born". They did not want the president to have any foreign allegiances, so no dual citizens like Obama and Rubio. (If in fact his parents had not renounced their Cuban citizenship by the time of his birth)

If immigrants want their kids to be president they need to swear allegiance to the USA, before they have a child.

Hondo68  posted on  2010-11-13   18:06:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: hondo68 (#32)

Huh??? What gives you the idea that Rubio is a dual citizen?

Natural born means a person was born inside the United States, except those not subject to the jurisdiction of the U.S. government (such as children of ambassadors or other foreign diplomats). PERIOD.

The other type of citizen is a naturalized citizen -- someone who wasn't born here, but became a citizen by choice. They cannot become President.


"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves is sinful and tyrannical." -- Thomas Jefferson

jwpegler  posted on  2010-11-13   18:26:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: hondo68 (#3)

subject to the jurisdiction thereof

The only people living in the U.S. who are not subject to our laws are people who have diplomatic immunity. Rubio's dad was a Cuban exile, not a Cuban diplomat.


"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves is sinful and tyrannical." -- Thomas Jefferson

jwpegler  posted on  2010-11-13   18:36:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: jwpegler (#34) (Edited)

Rubio's dad was a Cuban exile, not a Cuban diplomat.

None of the above. He left Cuba before the revolution and Castro. He was an immigrant, not an exile/refugee. AFAIK he was a REAL immigrant, and NOT an illegal alien.

Hondo68  posted on  2010-11-13   18:46:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: hondo68 (#35)

None of the above. He left Cuba before the revolution and Castro. He was an immigrant, not an exile/refugee. AFAIK he was a REAL immigrant, and NOT an illegal alien.

Legal or illegal, it doesn't matter. For better or worse, children of illegal immigrants are US citizens, unless the Federal government gives up jurisdiction over illegal immigrants.

Rhino  posted on  2010-11-13   22:31:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: Rhino (#36)

For better or worse, children of illegal immigrants are US citizens

I don't believe that his parents were illegal aliens, but they may not have completed naturalization at the time of Marco's birth. US citizen yes, natural born maybe not. Just being born in the US doesn't make one a natural born citizen.

We need the naturalization dates of the parents to know that.

Hondo68  posted on  2010-11-13   22:49:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: hondo68 (#37)

I don't believe that his parents were illegal aliens, but they may not have completed naturalization at the time of Marco's birth. US citizen yes, natural born maybe not. Just being born in the US doesn't make one a natural born citizen.

We need the naturalization dates of the parents to know that.

Natural born citizen means born a citizen.

Rhino  posted on  2010-11-13   22:51:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: Rhino (#38)

Natural born citizen means born a citizen

.... in the USA, of parents who are US citizens.

Finished it for ya.

Hondo68  posted on  2010-11-13   22:58:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: jwpegler, hondo68 (#33)

Natural born means a person was born inside the United States, except those not subject to the jurisdiction of the U.S. government (such as children of ambassadors or other foreign diplomats). PERIOD.

The other type of citizen is a naturalized citizen -- someone who wasn't born here, but became a citizen by choice. They cannot become President.

Incorrect jwpegler. The 14th amendment (which today has been bastardized) was nowhere in sight when the Constitution was written by the Founders.

Using modern day terminology as you have, I could claim someone born via c-section was not "natural born".

You have to look at what the meaning of words were when the Constitution was written.

"Gay" today means something totally different than when the Constitution was penned.

(sneakypete)DID Palin say or write these things or not?

(Mad Dog's reply) I don't know or F ing care.

Pete, MD doesn't know or care what Palin says or writes, he'll support her no matter what.

Wood_Chopper  posted on  2010-11-13   22:59:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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