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Title: Will someone please shut Krugman up
Source: UK Telegraph
URL Source: http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/financ ... omeone-please-shut-krugman-up/
Published: Oct 25, 2010
Author: Jeremy Warner
Post Date: 2010-10-25 08:28:06 by Badeye
Keywords: None
Views: 8763
Comments: 13

Will someone please shut Krugman up

By Jeremy Warner Economics Last updated: October 23rd, 2010

Sorry, a bit late on this one, but I see old Kruggers, Nobel prize winner and New York Times columnist, is at it again. Not content to lecture his own country’s administration about how they are not spending enough, Professor Krugman lambasts Britain’s coalition government in his latest column for its deficit reduction plan, which he reckons will condemn the UK to a depression.

Here’s a taste: “What happens now? Maybe Britain will get lucky, and something will come along to rescue the economy. But the best guess is that Britain in 2011 will look like Britain in 1931, or the United States in 1937, or Japan in 1997. That is, premature fiscal austerity will lead to a renewed economic slump. As always, those who refuse to learn from the past are doomed to repeat it”.

Good stuff, and who knows? Maybe he’s right. Yet the idea that you can more or less indefinitely keep putting off deficit reduction until the economy is firing on all cylinders again just looks like an excuse to me for continuing to spend at unaffordable levels. He accuses the Tories of being “ideological” in their single minded pursuit of deficit reduction, and of using the crisis to dismantle the welfare state, yet he conveniently skirts around the underlying issue, which is in essence that the country can no longer afford this expenditure.

Osborne’s fiscal consolidation is aimed only at removing the structural deficit – which is the bit that won’t go away when the economy returns to normal. The Obama Administration’s reluctance to take similar action in the US is extraordinarily irresponsible, and one of the reasons why the Democrats are so hopelessly down in the polls.

Surveys show that only about 20 per cent of Americans are Krugmanesque type liberals. Some 40 per cent count themselves as conservatives and the rest, the disenfranchised middle, reckon on being moderates. Yet as others have observed, if you asked the right questions the great bulk of Americans would say they are both liberal and conservative – socially liberal, that is, but fiscally conservative.

The striking thing about my last two visits to the US is just how worried by the deficit most Americans are. Indeed they are ashamed by it, and rightly take the view that unless it is tackled soon, it will seriously undermine America’s long term economic prospects, not to mention its positions in the world. Obama’s failure to realise this, and to continue to force a minority liberal agenda down everyone’s throat, is the reason he’s lost the plot. To restore his presidency, he needs to move towards the centre, and that includes the construction of a robust deficit reduction plan that begins with dispatch.

Professor Krugman suggests that Britain has nothing to fear from excessive public debt, which is still as things stand below its long run historical average. He’s technically right about this, but like a lot of statistics used to support a particular, ideological position, it’s completely meaningless. Looking at the path of UK public debt as a percentage of GDP, there have indeed been quite long periods when it has been much higher than it is now, but these periods mainly coincided with prolonged and all embracing war – first the Napoleonic wars, then later the Boer war and the first world war. Britain had barely recovered from the financial consequences of the first world war by the time the second world war hit.

The big point missed by those who think elevated public debt doesn’t matter is that these periods of excessive debt utterly crippled the UK economy. Indeed, Britain’s decline through the twentieth century as an economic superpower directly correlates with increased indebtedness. Fighting wars is not good for economic health

Both America and Britain are again technically at war, but these conflicts are relatively small affairs by past standards. What makes the current unsustainable trajectory of public debt so worrying is that it’s not military spending that is the problem this time around. We cannot rely on demilitarisation to come to the rescue of the public finances, as it has in the past. Public debt is excessive for entirely different reasons – the excess in public spending is not on fighting wars but on treating ourselves – and unless America does something about it soon, the US will decline economically and geo-politically over the next fifty years as surely as Britain did in the last century.

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#1. To: Badeye (#0)

Surveys show that only about 20 per cent of Americans are Krugmanesque type liberals

Yes, but unfortunately about 80% of Democrats in the U.S. House are big government liberals and at least half of GOP House members are big government neo-cons.


"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves is sinful and tyrannical." -- Thomas Jefferson

jwpegler  posted on  2010-10-25   10:03:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: jwpegler (#1)

Yes, but unfortunately about 80% of Democrats in the U.S. House are big government liberals and at least half of GOP House members are big government neo-cons.

100% of this administration is, don't agree with 50% of the House Republicans...not saying there aren't 'some' that fit the description, just disputing 50%.

Obama's first all-by-his-lonesome budget, btw, calls for a $1.17 trillion deficit.

Badeye  posted on  2010-10-25   10:35:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Badeye (#2) (Edited)

not saying there aren't 'some' that fit the description, just disputing 50%.

Any GOP House member that voted for Medicare part D and No Child Left Behind fits into the big government category.

I just looked it up. 89% of GOP House members voted for Medicare part D, and 82% of GOP Senators voted for it as well. oops...

You're right, 50% of GOP House members are not big spenders. 89% are. This is why I hate those lying SOBs so much. At least the Democrats are honest about their desire to spend us into oblivion and micro-manage every aspect of our lives.

F' them both.


"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves is sinful and tyrannical." -- Thomas Jefferson

jwpegler  posted on  2010-10-25   11:17:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: jwpegler (#3)

So don't vote.

Obama's first all-by-his-lonesome budget, btw, calls for a $1.17 trillion deficit.

Badeye  posted on  2010-10-25   11:24:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Badeye (#4) (Edited)

So don't vote.

I've already voted. We have a 5 important referendums on the ballot this year. Washington State has a great history of passing spending and tax limitation measures through citizen's initiatives. This is the only reason I vote.

I did cast a write in ballot for U.S. Congress -- "Bozo the Clown", because my GOP Congressman is a worthless piece of trash and lifelong bureaucrat (ex-Cop) who voted for Cap and Trade.

I also voted for Dino Rossi, but he is not going to win. This will be the third state-wide election he loses.

I have noticed that you've gotten really pissy about things since GOP Senate candidates started losing their big leads about a week or so ago. Is the pressure getting to you?


"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves is sinful and tyrannical." -- Thomas Jefferson

jwpegler  posted on  2010-10-25   11:34:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: jwpegler (#5)

I have noticed that you've gotten really pissy about things since GOP Senate candidates started losing their big leads about a week or so ago. Is the pressure getting to you?

(chuckle) I don't think I've gotten 'pissy' about things, I just react poorly to whining 'its all the same, blah blah blah'.

No pressure here at all. As for the Senate races, they all 'tighten up' just before any election. Par for the course for those of us that follow politics closely.

Obama's first all-by-his-lonesome budget, btw, calls for a $1.17 trillion deficit.

Badeye  posted on  2010-10-25   11:50:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: jwpegler, badeye (#5)

I have noticed that you've gotten really pissy about things since GOP Senate candidates started losing their big leads about a week or so ago. Is the pressure getting to you?

Badeye has put a stake in the ground that the GOP will gain 70 seats in the Congress and win the Senate.

Given his past history though, even if those predictions don't come to pass, Badeye will claim they did. :-)


On January 3, 2011 the GOP assumes responsibility for deficit spending.

go65  posted on  2010-10-25   12:34:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: go65 (#7)

Badeye has put a stake in the ground that the GOP will gain 70 seats in the Congress and win the Senate.

Given his past history though, even if those predictions don't come to pass, Badeye will claim they did. :-)

Fuck off GO. You make shit up, attribute it to me, and then claim its 'real'.

Which is why I call you Congressman Grayson.

Obama's first all-by-his-lonesome budget, btw, calls for a $1.17 trillion deficit.

Badeye  posted on  2010-10-25   13:57:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Badeye (#8)

Fuck off GO. You make shit up, attribute it to me, and then claim its 'real'.

I'm not making anything up there badeye, the database doesn't lie:

http://www.libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=14070&Disp=6#C6

rotflmao!

Your beloved liberal democrats are about to lose over 70 seats in the House, and control of the Senate, and you post THIS?

Sheesh.

Obama's first all-by-his-lonesome budget, btw, calls for a $1.17 trillion deficit.

Badeye posted on 2010-10-18 12:04:51 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

That's the public record - YOU claimed the Republicans would gain 70 seats in the House and control of the Senate. Now lets see what happens.


On January 3, 2011 the GOP assumes responsibility for deficit spending.

go65  posted on  2010-10-25   14:42:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: go65 (#9)

Given his past history though, even if those predictions don't come to pass, Badeye will claim they did. :-)

Fuck off GO. You make shit up, attribute it to me, and then claim its 'real'.

Obama's first all-by-his-lonesome budget, btw, calls for a $1.17 trillion deficit.

Badeye  posted on  2010-10-25   15:07:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: go65 (#7) (Edited)

Badeye has put a stake in the ground that the GOP will gain 70 seats in the Congress and win the Senate.

Yes he has and I have taken notice of it. :):):)

My predictions have been consistent for almost two months. The GOP will under- perform due to a lack of leadership. 35 to 45 net seats in the House. 5 to 6 net Senate seats. 10 to 11 net Governorships. 300+ net State Legislative offices.

I may be wrong, but I don't think so. This is not a pro-GOP election. It's an anti-Democrat election.


"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves is sinful and tyrannical." -- Thomas Jefferson

jwpegler  posted on  2010-10-25   15:27:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: jwpegler (#11)

This is not a pro-GOP election. It's an anti-Democrat election.

I believe it's ; not a pro-GOP election. It's an anti-liberal philosophy election.

-----------------------------------------------------------
Liberals:
-Pro nuclear proliferation.
-Support fundamentalist religion that execute gays.
-Have no issues with inmate abuse.
-In discussions to release J.Pollard.

WhiteSands  posted on  2010-10-25   15:32:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: jwpegler (#11)

You started a business now?

But how can you do this?

Don't you know that you are to wait for a check instead?

-----------------------------------------------------------
Liberals:
-Pro nuclear proliferation.
-Support fundamentalist religion that execute gays.
-Have no issues with inmate abuse.
-In discussions to release J.Pollard.

WhiteSands  posted on  2010-10-25   15:33:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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