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U.S. Constitution Title: Christine O'Donnell Asks Where Constitution Calls For Separation Of Church, State
WASHINGTON -- Republican Senate nominee Christine O'Donnell of Delaware is questioning whether the U.S. Constitution prohibits the government from establishing religion. In a debate at Widener University Law School, O'Donnell criticized Democratic nominee Chris Coons' position that teaching creationism in public school would violate the First Amendment by promoting religious doctrine. O'Donnell asked where the Constitution calls for the separation of church and state. When Coons responded that the First Amendment bars Congress from making laws respecting the establishment of religion, O'Donnell asked: "You're telling me that's in the First Amendment?" Delaware Senate The exchange Tuesday aired on radio station WDEL generated a buzz among law professors and students in the audience. Subscribe to *Tea Party On Parade* Post Comment Private Reply Ignore Thread Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest Comments (1-161) not displayed.
Careful Whitey, if you continue to post to me, you might catch syphilis! Meg your statement supports the need to regulate homosexuals. You don't know how Syphilis is spread. -----------------------------------------------------------
#163. To: Rhino (#153) Saying there is no separation of church and state, If there is separation of church and state, then the Federal governmemt should have no say so in what religion is or is not taught in local schools. Of course, we know that is notxthe case. Idiots like Coons don't realize they are not arguing for separation; they are arguing against it.
#164. To: meguro (#161) Meg continues his hetrophobia. -----------------------------------------------------------
#165. To: WhiteSands (#162) Meg your statement supports the need to regulate homosexuals. So regulate me, Whitey. Go for it.
#166. To: WhiteSands (#159) They already influence churches. Can I start a political party and not pay taxes on my property? No. So Churches aren't being treated any different from anyone else. The same revocation would happen to any non for profit group.
#167. To: no gnu taxes (#163) (Edited) I know you know this. But there is no separation of church and state. There is a prohibition against CONGRESS ONLY from prohibiting people from practicing their religion or from the CONGRESS from interfering with peoples free exercise of their religion. The godless liberals just like to say separation of church and state because it is easier to spin then the words in the constitution.
#168. To: no gnu taxes (#163) If there is separation of church and state, How can the Fed grant tax exemptions to "Churches"? How can the Fed pay for Imams to tour the ME? They will never move to challenge tax exemptions for "Churches". -----------------------------------------------------------
#169. To: no gnu taxes (#163)
The 14th amendment now forces all levels of government to follow the Bill of Rights. This means the State governments have to have a separation of church and state as well. Of course most states have a separation built into their constitution as well. The Federal government doesn't tell the states they can't teach religion, the US Constitution does. You are effectively arguing that the right to bears arms, means the Fed's can't tell you whether your state can tell you have guns or not have guns. That is really twisted logic. Furthermore why do Conservatives want godless commie schools teaching their kids religion anyway?
#170. To: A K A Stone (#167) I know you know this. But there is no separation of church and state. There is a prohibition against CONGRESS ONLY from prohibiting people from practicing their religion or from the CONGRESS from interfering with peoples free exercise of their religion. The godless liberals just like to say separation of church and state because it is easier to spin then the words in the constitution. Godless Liberals like Thomas Jefferson. What an anti American piece of shit that guy was huh?
#171. To: A K A Stone (#167) The founders were wise they knew that writing no establishment clause would stop them form ever establishing a national religion. If one religion can do so , all could. -----------------------------------------------------------
#172. To: A K A Stone (#167) I know you know this. But there is no separation of church and state. There is a prohibition against CONGRESS ONLY from prohibiting people from practicing their religion or from the CONGRESS from interfering with peoples free exercise of their religion. The godless liberals just like to say separation of church and state because it is easier to spin then the words in the constitution. Also how is teaching one religion in a school not infringing on your right to practice your religion? How would you like it if you had to move to Boston, MA and the teachers taught Catholic Dogma as fact, in school? Your religious American forefathers moved to the United States to be free of government interference in their religion. This isn't even a controversial part of American history.
#173. To: Rhino (#170) Thomas Jefferson was a great President. Maybe the best. He wasn't godless either. Do you know that the creator in the Declaration is God? He was a creationist.
#174. To: A K A Stone (#173) Thomas Jefferson was a great President. Maybe the best. He wasn't godless either. Do you know that the creator in the Declaration is God? He was a creationist. Yea no shit, I was being facetious. To messers Nehemiah Dodge, Ephraim Robbins, & Stephen S. Nelson, a committee of the Danbury Baptist association in the state of Connecticut. Gentlemen The affectionate sentiments of esteem and approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful and zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, & in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more and more pleasing. Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. [Congress thus inhibited from acts respecting religion, and the Executive authorised only to execute their acts, I have refrained from prescribing even those occasional performances of devotion, practiced indeed by the Executive of another nation as the legal head of its church, but subject here, as religious exercises only to the voluntary regulations and discipline of each respective sect.] Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties. I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection & blessing of the common father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves & your religious association assurances of my high respect & esteem. (signed) Thomas Jefferson Jan.1.1802.
#175. To: Rhino (#172) Also how is teaching one religion in a school not infringing on your right to practice your religion? How would you like it if you had to move to Boston, MA and the teachers taught Catholic Dogma as fact, in school? I don't send my kids to govt school. Everyone should be to send their kids to the school of their choice if they qualify. If we are to have govt education. The money should follow the student and not the district.
#176. To: All (#174) If anyone wants to know what that sound is, it's AKAStone realizing he in fact doesn't know everything.
#177. To: A K A Stone (#175)
I think a voucher system is a better system than what we have now.
#178. To: Rhino (#170) Godless Liberals like Thomas Jefferson. What an anti American piece of shit that guy was huh? He was Godless? Source that one please. He didn't believe in religion. ===============
Jefferson says he was a "Materialist" (letter to Short, Apr. 13, 1820) and a "Unitarian" (letter to Waterhouse, Jan. 8, 1825). Jefferson rejected the Christian doctrine of the "Trinity" (letter to Derieux, Jul. 25, 1788), as well as the doctrine of an eternal Hell (letter to Van der Kemp, May 1, 1817). Further, Jefferson specifically named Joseph Priestly (English Unitarian who moved to America) and Conyers Middleton (English Deist) and said: "I rest on them ... as the basis of my own faith" (letter to Adams, Aug. 22, 1813). Therefore, without using the actual words, Jefferson issued an authentic statement claiming Deism as his faith. http://www.sullivan-county.com/id3/jefferson_deist.htm -----------------------------------------------------------
#179. To: Rhino (#174) A letter not a law. If you argue Constitutional Law based on Jefferson's personal life, then you could argue slavery is good. -----------------------------------------------------------
#180. To: Rhino (#169) The 14th amendment now forces all levels of government to follow the Bill of Rights. The 14th Amendment did not repeal the 10th Amendment.
The Federal government doesn't tell the states they can't teach religion, the US Constitution does. Feel free to point the words that do so. You are effectively arguing that the right to bears arms, means the Fed's can't tell you whether your state can tell you have guns or not have guns. Actually, that's what YOU are arguing. What is taught in local schools is none of the Feds business.
#181. To: Rhino (#174) Jefferson was actually defending the interests of the Church, meaning that the Federal Govt shouldn't be butting in.
#182. To: WhiteSands (#178) He was Godless? No I was being facetious because Stone claimed it was godless liberals who use Separation of Church and State, when in fact the term was created by Thomas Jefferson, specifically to describe the first amendment. Anyone claiming that the Separation and Church and State doesn't exist that hasn't read Jeffferson's letter to the Marbary Baptists, is talking about a subject they are purposely ignorant about. For fucks sake, you find this shit out if you just bother to google the term. This is what happens when people rely on Conservative talking points to educate themselves on constitutional law and American history.
#183. To: Rhino (#176) If anyone wants to know what that sound is, it's AKAStone realizing he in fact doesn't know everything. What you quoted from was a letter. It isn't the constitution for starters. If we are adding letters of Thomas Jefferson to the constitution how about this one "Then I say, the earth belongs to each of these generations during its course, fully and in its own right. The second generation receives it clear of the debts and incumbrances of the first, the third of the second, and so on. For if the first could charge it with a debt, then the earth would belong to the dead and not to the living generation. Then, no generation can contract debts greater than may be paid during the course of its own existence." --Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 1789. ME 7:455, Papers 15:393 That is part of the constitution too because Jefferson was great and all his writings are part of the constitution right?
#184. To: WhiteSands (#179) A letter not a law. The first amendment is law however. And it does separate church and state.
#185. To: Rhino (#182) There is no separation of church and state. Go back and read the constitution. The FACT is that there is only a prohibition on CONGRESS!!!!
#186. To: Rhino (#182) No I was being facetious No problem. Got it. I rarely use the sarc tag too. -----------------------------------------------------------
#187. To: Rhino (#184) The first amendment is law however. And it does separate church and state. No it doesn't. Quote the constitution accurately and I will agree with you.
#188. To: A K A Stone (#183)
Did you read what I wrote? Obviously not. I was showing you that letter to show that the Separation of Church and State is just a term to describe the first amendment. Not some godless liberal conspiracy you cooked up. Thomas Jefferson's own words. Jefferson, the Supreme Court, and an objective reading of the Constitution aren't trumped by Christine O'Donnell.
#189. To: A K A Stone (#187) No it doesn't. Quote the constitution accurately and I will agree with you. Jefferson says it better than I.
#190. To: Rhino (#184) The first amendment essentially guarantees the right to religious freedom without any interference from the federal govt. Its purpose is to protect the churches, not the govt.
#191. To: A K A Stone (#185) There is no separation of church and state. Go back and read the constitution. The FACT is that there is only a prohibition on CONGRESS!!!! See the fourteenth amendment and related case law. The Bill of Rights applies to the states. Which is why gun bans are now illegal
#192. To: no gnu taxes (#190) The first amendment essentially guarantees the right to religious freedom without any interference from the federal govt. Its purpose is to protect the churches, not the govt. It also prevents the establishment of a religion. And yes the point is to protect all religions. Which is why the government can't teach any. Because teaching one is teaching against all the rest.
#193. To: Rhino (#188) Did you read what I wrote? Obviously not. I was showing you that letter to show that the Separation of Church and State is just a term to describe the first amendment. Yawn that is old news. Jefferson meant well. But liberals try to use those words to change the meaning of the constitution. There is no constitutional separation of church and state.
#194. To: Rhino (#192) And yes the point is to protect all religions. Which is why the government can't teach any. Because teaching one is teaching against all the rest. Incorrect. The prohibition is on Congress only. Not state or local govts. That is the true meaning of the words in the first amendment. Come on be honest and admit it and quit spinning. You will be ok.
#195. To: no gnu taxes (#180) The 14th Amendment did not repeal the 10th Amendment. "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." The 14th amendment makes the Bill of Rights apply to the states by the Constitution. That is perfectly in line with the bolded part of the tenth. The states are now prohibited from infringing our rights. Those powers are prohibited by the Constitution (14th amendment).
#196. To: Rhino (#191) The 14th wasn't ratified properly and is not really part of the constitution. If it was real it would be more like the 15th amendment as the evil government got rid of the real 13th amendment.
#197. To: Rhino (#192) It also prevents the establishment of a religion. By CONGRESS. Religions are established all the time.
#198. To: A K A Stone (#194) Incorrect. The prohibition is on Congress only. Not state or local govts. That is the true meaning of the words in the first amendment. Come on be honest and admit it and quit spinning. You will be ok. Until the passage of the 14th Amendment, absolutely. However most states have the first amendment in their constitutions as well. It would take amending their constitutions to remove them. However after the 14th amendment, the Bill of Rights applies to all levels of governments. To make a long story short, we fought this war, your side lost, and we made the 14th amendment.
#199. To: A K A Stone (#196) The 14th wasn't ratified properly and is not really part of the constitution. If it was real it would be more like the 15th amendment as the evil government got rid of the real 13th amendment. Well this is a conspiracy theory. I don't know what you want me to do with that. The 14th amendment is considered valid by every court in America.
#200. To: A K A Stone (#193)
I'll take Jefferson and the US Supreme court over Christine ODonnell and AKASTONE any day.
#201. To: Rhino (#199) The 14th amendment freed the slaves. That is the real 14th amendment. The 13th god rid of titles of nobility and honors.
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