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Economy Title: It's official: Analysis says bailouts saved economy Using econometric models, Alan Blinder and Mark Zandi argue that the bailouts, the stimulus and other extraordinary actions saved America from nothing less than another Great Depression. Blinder was vice chairman of the Federal Reserve. Zandi is chief economist at Moody's Analytics and advised Republican presidential candidate John McCain. Had Washington not taken any aggressive steps starting in 2008, the results would have been horrific, their study says. Real gross domestic product would have fallen a "stunning" 12 percent, rather than the actual decline of 4 percent. Nearly 17 million jobs would have vanished, twice as many as the real count. And the unemployment rate would have peaked at 16.5 percent. ... Ignoring what might have happened had the government not launched a vigorous response may be irresponsible, but it can be good politics. That's because many Americans — seeing the weak job picture and forgetting their own terror during the early days of the economic freefall - can be convinced that such polices were ineffective and possibly counterproductive. They remind me of family members who, four weeks after a quadruple bypass, want to know why Grandpa isn't dancing. At least the family knows that the operation was needed. Post Comment Private Reply Ignore Thread Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest Comments (1-4) not displayed.
You forgot about the devastating earthquake Are you talking about the Kobe earthquake in 1995? The Japanese economy tanked before that. In fact, the Kobe earthquake should have been a Keynesian's dream. It stimulated so much "demand" that the country should have been miraculously pulled out of their funk. Of course, that's not what happen because Keynesians don't create dreams, they create nightmares. American public policy has been dominated by Democrats who don't care and Republicans that don't dare -- Dick Armey #6. To: Ignore Amos (#2) Hahahahahahaha . . . yeah, people sure are stupid, ain't they? Why, Zero and his merry band of Marxists should be leading in the polls by 70, 80, even 90 percent. Please help me remember - who was president when Had Washington not taken any aggressive steps starting in 2008...
#7. To: jwpegler (#3) The bank bailouts did one thing -- they prevent capital and talent from being freed up for more productive uses. Hording seems to be what is preventing money from productive use at the moment.
#8. To: lucysmom (#6) Please help me remember - who was president when Thanks for reminding me. I should have added Bush to my list of statists. You will have to help me out, though. Is it because Bush didn't quite rise to the level of Marxist that you folks hate him so? ______________________________________________________________________________ #9. To: lucysmom (#7) (Edited) Hording I can always tell a brain dead, no nothing leftist from the words they use. "Hording" is the #1 tip off. "Greed" is #2. What is preventing money from being put to more productive uses at this movement is the looming increase in capital gains taxes, income taxes, health insurance mandates, regulations, and the uncertainly around cap and trade. Why should a business RISK their money to build a new facility or hire new people when the government is going to steal most of the potential benefit away? WHY? They shouldn't and they aren't. American public policy has been dominated by Democrats who don't care and Republicans that don't dare -- Dick Armey #10. To: Ignore Amos (#8) Is it because Bush didn't quite rise to the level of Marxist that you folks hate him so? Wasn't it Bush who looked into Pootie-poots eyes and recognized a kindred spirit?
#11. To: lucysmom (#7) There was a great segment about the Americans for Disability Act on Stossel last night. Some doctor is getting sued by a deaf patient under ADA because he didn't provide a sign language translator. The patient was on Medicaid. Medicaid pays the doctor $50 a visit. The signer costs $150. Are you smart enough to guess what the problem here might be? I doubt it. The government is run by a bunch of blithering idiots, who have no experience running a business, making a payroll, or serving customers. American public policy has been dominated by Democrats who don't care and Republicans that don't dare -- Dick Armey #12. To: jwpegler (#9) What is preventing money from being put to more productive uses at this movement is the looming increase in capital gains taxes, income taxes, health insurance mandates, regulations, and the uncertainly around cap and trade. Because doing nothing gets nothing in return. Why is it that the Scandinavian seem to be doing pretty well at the moment - sky high tax rates and all.
#13. To: lucysmom (#12) Because doing nothing gets nothing in return. Nothing is better than LOSING MONEY. American public policy has been dominated by Democrats who don't care and Republicans that don't dare -- Dick Armey #14. To: jwpegler (#11) The government is run by a bunch of blithering idiots, who have no experience running a business, making a payroll, or serving customers. George Bush, Dick Cheney... I rest my case.
#15. To: lucysmom (#12) Why is it that the Scandinavian seem to be doing pretty well at the moment - sky high tax rates and all. ROTFLMAO. Corporate tax rates:
You need you pull your head out of your 1960s text books and join the real world. American public policy has been dominated by Democrats who don't care and Republicans that don't dare -- Dick Armey #16. To: lucysmom (#14) George Bush, Dick Cheney... They are gone. Yes, you have demonstrated how clueless you are. American public policy has been dominated by Democrats who don't care and Republicans that don't dare -- Dick Armey #17. To: jwpegler (#11) The patient was on Medicaid. Medicaid pays the doctor $50 a visit. The signer costs $150. Are you smart enough to guess what the problem here might be? I doubt it. Too bad he didn't look into getting one of those from the various associations for the deaf who will work for free or car fare. "Look you leftist pervert, make sure you keep your Mr Winky away from your family's new addition or I will send some fellow salad tossers to square away your sorry butt. Got it??" The good "cop", Jethro Tull explaining how to prevent a Palin family tradition in YOUR family. #18. To: jwpegler (#16) They are gone. Yes, you have demonstrated how clueless you are. Yet their influence continually lingers on or have their wars mysteriously disappeared? "Look you leftist pervert, make sure you keep your Mr Winky away from your family's new addition or I will send some fellow salad tossers to square away your sorry butt. Got it??" The good "cop", Jethro Tull explaining how to prevent a Palin family tradition in YOUR family. #19. To: mininggold (#17) Too bad he didn't look into getting one of those from the various associations for the deaf who will work for free or car fare. That service may not have existed in his area. Regardless, you're missing the point. The NET outcome of the government's rules is that the doctor would lose $100 per visit, not including his own costs -- building rent, utilities, equipment depreciation, salaries and benefits for nurses and administrative staff, etc. This is just one small example of how the government is ruining the country. Government idiocy / tyranny is not a new phenomenon, but its accelerating very quickly now. American public policy has been dominated by Democrats who don't care and Republicans that don't dare -- Dick Armey #20. To: mininggold (#17) Too bad he didn't look into getting one of those from the various associations for the deaf who will work for free or car fare. If those were readily or easily available, nobody would be able to demand $150 a visit for the service.
#21. To: mininggold (#18) wars mysteriously disappeared Obama promised to make them disappear, along with Guantanamo Bay. How is that working out for you? American public policy has been dominated by Democrats who don't care and Republicans that don't dare -- Dick Armey #22. To: no gnu taxes (#20) If those were readily or easily available, nobody would be able to demand $150 a visit for the service. Yep, it called supply and demand -- another concept that clueless leftists just don't understand. American public policy has been dominated by Democrats who don't care and Republicans that don't dare -- Dick Armey #23. To: jwpegler (#13) Nothing is better than LOSING MONEY. Not making a profit loses money, not taxes.
#24. To: lucysmom (#23) (Edited) Not making a profit loses money, not taxes. Let me explain this really slowly: If I have money in the bank and I don't do anything with it, I'm not losing anything. I may not be gaining much at simple interest, but I am not LOSING it either. If I RISK that money on a new business or to expand an existing business in a poor economic climate (created by government policies) then I may LOSE it all. People are sitting on their money rather than putting it at risk because of government policies, namely increased regulations, looming tax increases, government mandated medical insurance costs, and god-forbid cap and trade. It's just that simple. American public policy has been dominated by Democrats who don't care and Republicans that don't dare -- Dick Armey #25. To: jwpegler (#21) Obama promised to make them disappear, along with Guantanamo Bay. How is that working out for you? Why make it personal, or should I say that your boys started it and a flip of the magic wand will not make it disappear overnight. They did a great job of creating a no win situation, and you can research Nixon/Ford for the details. "Look you leftist pervert, make sure you keep your Mr Winky away from your family's new addition or I will send some fellow salad tossers to square away your sorry butt. Got it??" The good "cop", Jethro Tull explaining how to prevent a Palin family tradition in YOUR family. #26. To: jwpegler (#15) Corporate tax rates: The 39% tax rate applies to business with profits between $100,000 to $335,000. Earn less, the rate is lower and oddly enough, earn more and the rate is lower. Business income tax rates start at 15% for those with $50,000 or less in profits.
#27. To: mininggold (#25) your boys Have you actually ever read my posts? Those weren't my boys. I hated them almost as much I hate Obama. American public policy has been dominated by Democrats who don't care and Republicans that don't dare -- Dick Armey #28. To: lucysmom (#26) (Edited) Business income tax rates start at 15% for those with $50,000 or less in profits. Well DUH! LOL. Along with Japan, the United States has the highest corporate tax rates in the world. Then we wonder why businesses aren't hiring or expanding. Supply-side economics in "socialist" Sweden: Sweden Announces Income Tax Cuts to Boost Jobs Last week the government announced a separate 16 billion kronor (US$2.4 billion) package aimed at improving the business climate, which would in turn help increase employment. That package included proposals to cut the corporate tax rate from 28% to 26.3%... ROTFLMAO. American public policy has been dominated by Democrats who don't care and Republicans that don't dare -- Dick Armey #29. To: lucysmom (#0) We should have let the big banks fail. Now we have these zombies around our neck with all their debt forever. That is all the "stimulus" and bailouts accomplished. Status quo. Clinton and Cuomo are the true bandits who lit the fuse to this economic crisis we're now in. All in the name of getting more minorities in houses: http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=12554 #30. To: lucysmom (#10)
Okay, so he's a statist AND a Marxist. Again I ask - why do you folks hate him so? ______________________________________________________________________________ #31. To: lucysmom (#26) One more point. I haven't added in state business taxes on top of the 39% federal rate. Most other countries don't have federalist systems like we do, so most of their taxing power (at least on incomes) is at the central government level. Add in state business taxes, in places like California and New Jersey, and the U.S. places BY FAR the heaviest burdens on corporations in the world. Furthermore, the U.S. is one of only FIVE countries in the world that tax earnings repatriated from abroad. So, companies generally don't bring the money they earn overseas back home to invest here. Last week the Intel CEO said that 25% of the cost of a building a new $4 billion fab are government burdens that don't exist elsewhere. So why in the hell should he build a new plant in the U.S., rather than in Taiwan, or China? He shouldn't and he's not. Then we wonder why the economy stinks. I'll let you in on a little secret. It's not a surprise to anyone who has any experience in business. American public policy has been dominated by Democrats who don't care and Republicans that don't dare -- Dick Armey #32. To: Ignore Amos (#30) why do you folks hate him so? Because we have no defense against big spending, liberal Republicans. Bush spent money like crazy. What did the left and media accuse him of? Having "extreme free market policies". So, of course the solution is even more government. At least when the GOP is in opposition, they pretend to be for limited government. When they hold power, they are a huge catalyst for even larger government, like we are getting now. American public policy has been dominated by Democrats who don't care and Republicans that don't dare -- Dick Armey #33. To: jwpegler (#28) Along with Japan, the United States has the highest corporate tax rates in the world.
#34. To: lucysmom (#26) BTW, told ya...
#35. To: jwpegler, lucysmom (#32) why do you folks hate him so? Judging from your posts jw, I think you and I are in agreement about 90 percent of the time. If I read you right, we see no redemption in the GOP, and certainly not in the democrats. The above question - which I posed to lucysmom - was meant to illustrate the need of those on the Left to demonize someone. Which is funny if you think about it because most of them probably don't really believe there is inherent evil in the world (in the form of a devil, or Satan.) To them, throwing out the "Bush/Cheney"; or now, the "Sarah Palin" card, is meant to stifle discussion. Period. End of discussion. They have no arguments. Zero has demonstrated for all (except perhaps his most brain-dead syncophants) the bankruptcy of ideas and policies of the Left. ______________________________________________________________________________ #36. To: war (#33) (Edited) People who don't know anything about finances often confuse marginal tax rates and average taxes paid. You claim to be a Wall Street Vice President and you don't know this. I don't think so. School teacher is more likely. The marginal tax RATE is the percentage of of earnings that one would pay on the last dollar earned. It is an undisputed fact, that the U.S and Japan have the highest corporate tax rates in the world. Earnings are sales minus expenses. Earnings can be positive (a profit) or negative (a loss). A company might have sales of $1 million but expenses of $1.2 million so they have a loss and don't pay any income taxes. The government's tax system is more complicated than this and features a complex set of ways to reduce taxable earnings. Some corporations might have positive earnings but still pay few taxes because of the dedications. The tax treatment is very uneven across industries. Almost every conservative would trade these deductions for lower margin rates. Many large corporations have offices in more than one country. Of course, they are going to take advantage of every government rule in every country to shift their earnings away from high tax countries to low tax countries. All the complex rules force businesses to spend an extraordinary amount of money just to figure out what there taxes are. The system is broken. The economy is evidence of it. American public policy has been dominated by Democrats who don't care and Republicans that don't dare -- Dick Armey #37. To: Ignore Amos (#35) To them, throwing out the "Bush/Cheney"; or now, the "Sarah Palin" card, is meant to stifle discussion. Period. End of discussion. Bull shit.. what you just posted is meant to stifle discussion. "Look you leftist pervert, make sure you keep your Mr Winky away from your family's new addition or I will send some fellow salad tossers to square away your sorry butt. Got it??" The good "cop", Jethro Tull explaining how to prevent a Palin family tradition in YOUR family. #38. To: Ignore Amos (#35) To them, throwing out the "Bush/Cheney"; or now, the "Sarah Palin" card, is meant to stifle discussion. Period. End of discussion. Yes that is very evident. The Democrats successfully ran against Herbert Hoover (another big government Republican) for 50 years. Never mind that Roosevelt made things worse. We can't go back to Hoover. That was the false choice that was presented. They are trying to do it again today. It's not going to work this time because of the free flow of information we have on the internet, smartphones, talk radio, and cable television. Thanks to the new media (including this board) everyone but the most unreconstructed leftist knows that Obama's policies have failed. American public policy has been dominated by Democrats who don't care and Republicans that don't dare -- Dick Armey #39. To: jwpegler (#36) People who don't know anything about finances often confuse marginal tax rates and average taxes paid. You claim to be a Wall Street Vice President and you don't know this. I don't think so. School teacher is more likely. Chuckles...it's an argument I've made for years but I've made it correctly. NOONE pays marginal rates. For you to argue that our tax rates are the highest is a highly misleading argument which, as I can tell by your howling, you realize you can't put over on me. The fact is, it's the government making the rules that ALLOW corporations to easily avoid paying taxes. The "extraordinary amount of money" that is paid is not to accountants but to politicians. ExxonMobil paid how much in US taxes last year?
#40. To: mininggold (#37) (Edited) Bull shit.. what you just posted is meant to stifle discussion. I "discuss" any topic with anyone. What I won't waste my time on are brain-dead partisans who can't get over their hatred for a failed president. Hey - I've got an idea. Wanna talk about failed presidents? Let's talk about Carter. He's about as relevant to today's events as Bush. ______________________________________________________________________________ #41. To: jwpegler (#38) Thanks to the new media (including this board) everyone but the most unreconstructed leftist knows that Obama's policies have failed. We lost close to 3MM jobs in 2008. We lost another MM+ in the first few months of 2009. For you to declare the policies that stopped that bleeding a failure is just absolute insanity.
#42. To: Ignore Amos (#40) I "discuss" any topic with anyone. Then you will have no ability to compare the present with the past either with negatives or positives. You should have a really big bone to pick with No GNU Taxes. "Look you leftist pervert, make sure you keep your Mr Winky away from your family's new addition or I will send some fellow salad tossers to square away your sorry butt. Got it??" The good "cop", Jethro Tull explaining how to prevent a Palin family tradition in YOUR family. #43. To: Ignore Amos (#40) Wanna talk about failed presidents? Let's talk about Carter. He's about as relevant to today's events as Bush. That's a ridiculous statement. Bush is the direct link to the problems we're facing today, not Carter. All the disastrous decisions we're dealing with now started with Bush, and are being continued by Obama. "How many confirmed NV Mig kills do YOU have general? I only have three." - Mad Dog, the village idiot's hemorrhoid. #44. To: Ignore Amos (#40) He's about as relevant to today's events as Bush. We invaded Iraq and Afghanistan during whose term? We opened GITMO during whose term? This depression or deep recession started during whose term? We saw a massive increase of debt and a financial system meltdown during whose term of office? Now we are getting ever closer to an election where the GOP wants to retake the reigns. OF COURSE he is relevant. As much as you want him not to be. He is. And the GOP ran against Carter until they couldn't any more which was 1986 and they tried to then as well. They again raised the Carter Card in 1992 and 1993 by promising MASSIVE INFLATION and a weak US if Clinton was elected. You need to recapture a sense of reality when it comes to recalling history.
#45. To: war (#39) NOONE pays marginal rates. That's true in every country, so it's meaningless to the discussion. American public policy has been dominated by Democrats who don't care and Republicans that don't dare -- Dick Armey . . . Comments (46 - 163) not displayed. Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest |
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