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911
See other 911 Articles

Title: The morning of 9/11, before they realized the world had changed
Source: wikileaks
URL Source: http://www.wikileaks.com/wiki/The_m ... realized_the_world_had_changed
Published: Jul 30, 2010
Author: Matt Gurney
Post Date: 2010-07-30 22:46:53 by A K A Stone
Keywords: None
Views: 41409
Comments: 47

Last week, the website WikiLeaks released half a million pager messages that were sent on Sept. 11, 2001. These messages provide a fascinating glimpse back at how people responded in real-time to the terrifying events of that Tuesday morning. While many of the messages are either unrelated to the attacks or simply the incomprehensible techno-babble of automated telecommunications, many others capture the raw emotional flavour of the chaos following the tragedy. People reach out to family and friends to see if they're safe, exchange "I love you" s, inform others who may not have heard about the terrorist acts and express -- often in colourful terms -- their shock and outrage.

The texts make for fascinating reading, and provoke some good discussions of the cliched, "Where were you when it happened?" variety. But a source I've found even more interesting, if chilling, is the Sept. 11 Television Archive ( www.archive.org/details/sept_11_tv_archive).Here, you can watch television coverage of the event as it happened, starting even before the attacks began. The videos cover the major American broadcasters -- CNN, ABC, CBS, NBC and Fox --as well as the BBC. The passage of time has not dulled the horror. It's still as much a kick in the gut as it was eight years ago. Indeed, watching the coverage again this morning, my eyes were glued to the handy little clocks the networks insert into their broadcasts alongside their corporate logos. A literal countdown. It's like watching a tragedy from afar, knowing it's going to happen, but being helpless to stop it. The feeling of dread is still overpowering.

The footage also has a whiff of surreal absurdity about it, something that would be darkly funny were it not so horrid. While the first plane struck at 8:46 that morning, setting the North Tower of the World Trade Center ablaze, the networks carried on with their original programming schedules, unaware that the world had just changed. Particularly awful is the archived footage taken from Fox 5 in Washington, D.C., where a reporter is interviewing a travel agent about cruises for singles looking for love. The segment ends with the reporter, the travel agent and a group of representative lonely hearts belting out the theme from The Love Boat.

Meanwhile, several hundred miles away, thousands of New Yorkers were being forced to choose between leaping from their office windows or burning to death.

While the example of Fox 5 is particularly cringe-inducing, the other networks were little better. CBS' The Early Show had a guest from Gourmet magazine discussing the arrival of fettucini alfredo in America when the North Tower was hit. ABC's Charles Gibson was interviewing Duchess Sarah Ferguson about her weight loss and self-esteem from ABC's studios not far from what had just become Ground Zero. Over at NBC, Katie Couric had just finished interviewing Harry Belafonte and Matt Lauer had begun an incredibly awkward talk with a far-too-enthusiastic author hawking his new biography of Howard Hughes when Lauer suddenly broke away and cut to commercial before delivering the somber news.

It's hard to reconcile the weight 9/11 holds in our civilization's collective consciousness with the utterly irrelevent fluff that was considered news when the world awoke that morning. Everyone recalls not just the day's events, but the total hysteria of the days that followed. It was all-catastrophe, all-the-time, and it went on week after week. The footage before news of the attacks breaks is a peek back to a lost era, not necessarily better, but certainly more innocent. It can't be said that the attacks changed the nature of our media's obsession with the trivial; the interviews with television and music stars that came just moments before the attacks would not seem at all out of place today.

There are other fascinating moments in the footage. The very genesis of many of the wackier 9/11 conspiracy theories can be found in the confused, panicky broadcasts (Was it a bomb? A missile? No, it was a plane, but a small plane!). It's also interesting to compare how the anchors responded to the attacks. CBS's Bryant Gumbel seems completely overwhelmed, unable to grasp that the collisions were deliberate, despite detailed reports from eyewitnesses who make it clear that the planes manoeuvred directly into the towers. Charles Gibson and Diane Sawyer at ABC are much quicker, with Gibson saying almost immediately after the second impact that a "concerted effort to attack" America was underway.

As illuminating as these other issues are, however, it's still hard to get past the first minutes of the attacks, while reporters and hosts babble pleasantly through their morning shows, contentedly ignorant that the course of history was being changed forever, in some cases a mere handful of city blocks away.

As published in National Post. Thanks to Matt Gurney and National Post for covering this material. Copyright remains with the aforementioned.

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#1. To: A K A Stone (#0)

the world had changed

Bullshit.

(sneakypete)DID Palin say or write these things or not?

(Mad Dog's reply) I don't know or F ing care.

Pete, MD doesn't know or care what Palin says or writes, he'll support her no matter what.

Wood_Chopper  posted on  2010-07-30   22:48:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: Wood_Chopper (#1)

http://www.archive.org/details/sept_11_tv_archive

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-07-30   22:53:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: A K A Stone (#2)

The world has not changed Stone. It's the same as it's always been.

(sneakypete)DID Palin say or write these things or not?

(Mad Dog's reply) I don't know or F ing care.

Pete, MD doesn't know or care what Palin says or writes, he'll support her no matter what.

Wood_Chopper  posted on  2010-07-30   22:55:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Wood_Chopper (#3)

The world did change. Our country got more aggressive and started a couple of wars. They passed the patriot act without reading it. We are still in a war now almost 10 years later. Do you think we will still be at 20 years?

Good morning America on that day.

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-07-30   23:05:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: All (#4)

CBS coverage of 911 live

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-07-30   23:10:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: A K A Stone (#4)

The world did change.

The fucking world did not change.

Your perception of the world, which can be manipulated, may have changed.

But the world did not change.

(sneakypete)DID Palin say or write these things or not?

(Mad Dog's reply) I don't know or F ing care.

Pete, MD doesn't know or care what Palin says or writes, he'll support her no matter what.

Wood_Chopper  posted on  2010-07-30   23:27:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Wood_Chopper (#6)

fair enough. I don't disagree that a massive mind control brain washing took place after 911 to make us look at the world differently. I just posted the article because of the wealth of video at the link in the article. The policy of our country did change though. For the worse

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-07-30   23:29:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: A K A Stone (#7)

I just posted the article because of the wealth of video at the link in the article.

The article is a propaganda piece the minute it says the world has changed.

The policy of our country did change though. For the worse.

Did it change, or just continue?

(sneakypete)DID Palin say or write these things or not?

(Mad Dog's reply) I don't know or F ing care.

Pete, MD doesn't know or care what Palin says or writes, he'll support her no matter what.

Wood_Chopper  posted on  2010-07-30   23:44:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Wood_Chopper (#8)

Did it change, or just continue?

It gave them the opportunity to change our nation. The plans were laid before though. IMO.

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-07-31   3:04:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: A K A Stone (#9)

8:15: Transponder cut off. ALL SCREENS in EVERY FAA Control Center from Boston to Cleveland to DC lights up with Flt 11.

As well as the Secret Service Screens in WTC 7, where the SS is in Control of ALL Airspace in and around NYC.

bush43 on his way out of the Hotel is accosted by ABC Reporter asking about the hijack.

bush responds he knows and will later make a statement.

cheney is in a confab with buddy O'Keefe. Unexpected and off schedule. Lasting until 9:00, about 45 min, later neither will remember what they talked about.

SS Agent escorting cheney will think it unimportant to tell VPOTUS hijacking underway.

mcgowanjm  posted on  2010-07-31   10:13:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: A K A Stone (#9)

Did it change, or just continue?

12122000 starts the Rolling Coup. SCOTUS 5 criminals-Rehnquist/Scalia.

9/10 Rummy/Dov Zakheim=$2.3 Trillion missing Pentagon.

And amazing that as nothing on tv, all of a sudden Fox interviews people on the street who know all about what fire does to collapse buildings and Al Qaeda.

mcgowanjm  posted on  2010-07-31   10:17:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: All (#11)

Thank you, AKA.

abc tape has the time stamp of 8:31. As they all have 41:41. they've been dated to Flt 11 crash evidently.

16 minutes gone by since transponder cut off. Bedlam in FAA/SS Control Centers.

bush43 heading to publicly disclosed location. Despite.

mcgowanjm  posted on  2010-07-31   10:19:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: All (#12)

At 8:31 Gen Winnfield Montaigne has relinquished command of NORAD to a just certified rookie, who will now oversee 9/11 PLUS 6 Air defense Drills underway simultaneously.

In the Pentagon an Air Raid drill is underway.

ODIGO has sent out a warning 1 1/2 hrs earlier warning of an attack on the WTC.

Israeli Security at ALL Airports affected in the US have been warned.

Israelis stay away from WTC's.

mcgowanjm  posted on  2010-07-31   10:26:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: All (#13)

Van(from Urban Moving) with mural of WTC's and Israeli Mossad parking in Liberty Park to film and dance.

mcgowanjm  posted on  2010-07-31   10:27:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: A K A Stone (#0) (Edited)

All of this is a lie:

According to his own recollection, Cheney is puzzled by the reports: “I was sitting there thinking about it. It was a clear day, there was no weather problem—how in hell could a plane hit the World Trade Center?” [Newsweek, 12/31/2001; 9/11 Commission, 7/24/2004, pp. 35] He claims it is only when he sees the second tower hit at 9:03 that he realizes this is a terrorist attack, saying, “as soon as that second plane showed up, that’s what triggered the thought: terrorism, that this was an attack.” [Meet the Press, 9/16/2001; CNN, 9/11/2002]

And this is a Lying SS Agent:

(8:50 a.m.) September 11, 2001: Secret Service Agent Outside Cheney’s Office Learns Plane that Hit WTC Is Passenger Jet Edit event

While he is waiting outside the vice president’s office for a scheduled meeting, Dick Cheney’s chief speechwriter John McConnell has been chatting with Cheney’s secretary Debbie Heiden and the Secret Service agent posted at the door. They all see the news about the first plane hitting the World Trade Center on the television above Heiden’s desk. McConnell later recalls, “There wasn’t any kind of alarm. It was just kind of, ‘Oh man, look at that.’”

The Secret Service agent then receives an urgent call from the agency’s intelligence division.

According to McConnell, “He put the phone down and told me: passenger jet. And that’s when you go, Geez. And then you start getting a sick feeling. Because a passenger aircraft is not going to crash into the World Trade Center.” [Hayes, 2007, pp. 329-330]

AGAIN: SS is IN CHARGE of an NSSE in NYC(UN MEETING) The SS is in charge of ALL AIRSPACE in and AROUNd NYC.

All FAA Screens are LIGHTING UP with Flt 11 transponder off.

Cheney has either given orders NOT to be informed and/or someone in the SS is not communicating with Cheney's Agent, or the Agent has been told what to do as he is communicating with 'SS intelligence division.

SS Communications wil be the ONLY Federal Communications that do NOT suffer disruption on 911.

mcgowanjm  posted on  2010-07-31   10:31:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: All (#15)

The second part of the essay begins with Rumsfeld's role as special envoy to Iraq in the early Reagan years, the role which led to the famous photo of Rumsfeld and Saddam. This is often described, as by the NY Times, as seeing Iraq as "an important counter-balance to Iran," and potentially a moderate Arab state, at other times just an example of arms sales and oil deals driving U.S. policy. But Morris -- once a member of Henry Kissinger's NSC staff and a biographer of Nixon -- puts it more bluntly: the rising neocons and the Israel lobby "cynically pushed both for Reagan administration aid to Iraq and for covert arms-dealing with Iran (later exposed in the Iran-Contra scandal), viewing the ongoing no-winners carnage of two Islamic states as a boon," and describes the episode as "Washington's furtive arming of one tyranny to bleed another, with untold casualties on each side." At the time Rumsfeld visited Baghdad, Iraq was at risk of losing the war and had already offered peace terms; we propped them back up.

Later came the Iran-Contra scandal, which drew so much attention to bizarre anecdotes, such as National Security Adviser Robert McFarlane's trip to Tehran with a cake and a bible, and the violation of the ban on funding the contras, that the underlying policy was overlooked: Now that Iraq had won some military victories in the long million-death war, we turned back to Iran. I've never seen it stated so plainly, but this has seemed to me one of the great crimes of American foreign policy, one attributable to realists such as Brent Scowcroft as much as to neo-cons like Richard Perle.

Because of Global Guardian, three special military command aircraft with sophisticated communications equipment, based at Offutt, are up in the air the morning of 9/11. These E-4B National Airborne Operations Center planes—nicknamed “Doomsday” planes during the Cold War—are intended to control nuclear forces from the air in times of crisis. They are capable of acting as alternative command posts for top government officials from where they can direct US forces, execute war orders and coordinate the actions of civil authorities in times of national emergency. The Federal Advisory Committee (whose chairman is retired Lt. Gen. Brent Scowcroft) is aboard one of these Doomsday planes, being brought to Offutt to observe the exercise. Global Guardian will be cancelled some time after the second WTC tower is hit (see (Between 9:04 a.m. and 9:40 a.m.) September 11, 2001), with the battle staff at Offutt switching to “real-world mode.” However, even after Global Guardian is called off, the three E-4Bs will remain airborne. Also on this morning, a small group of business leaders are at Offutt because of a charity fundraiser event due to take place later in the day, hosted by the multi-billionaire Warren Buffett (see (8:45 a.m.-9:03 a.m.) September 11, 2001). [Omaha World-Herald, 2/27/2002; Air Force Weather Observer, 7/2002 pdf file; BBC, 9/1/2002; Omaha World-Herald, 9/8/2002]

Later and this is unreal. I'm the top query on google:

Brent Scowcroft boards e-4b at Andrews:

And here's where the lies really start:

"Also, according to some accounts, the Secret Service evacuates Cheney from his office shortly after the second attack occurs (see (9:10 a.m.) September 11, 2001). [New York Times, 9/13/2001; ABC News, 9/14/2002] Cheney claims that President Bush phones him around this time, while he is still in his office. [Meet the Press, 9/16/2001] But according to White House adviser Karl Rove, who is with the president in Florida, Bush is unable to reach the vice president because Cheney is being evacuated from his office (see (9:16 a.m.-9:29 a.m.) September 11, 2001). [MSNBC, 9/11/2002].

At 9:10+ Scowcroft boards Venus 77, the E-4B Flying Pentagon. The plane seen circling circling the WH just before the Pentagon blows up at 9:37.

At this time there are Six US planes in and around the skies of the WH.

Venus 22(Gulfstream) Venus 77, C-130 E(Gopher), Word 31(second E-4B), Bobcat 14 and Bobcat 17. Plus the Three Langley jets.

Cheney, the SS(In charge of Airspace over NYC/UN NSSE and NORAD. They did 9/11.

mcgowanjm  posted on  2010-07-31   10:59:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: All (#16)

(Between 8:00 a.m. and 10:00 a.m.) September 11, 2001: Numerous Aircraft at Base near Washington Participating in Training Exercises Edit event

Many aircraft at Andrews Air Force Base, which is just a few miles outside Washington, DC, are taking part in training exercises. James Ampey, an FAA air traffic controller who is currently on duty in the control tower at the base, will later recall that there are

“an unusually high number of aircraft taking off and landing at Andrews [this] morning, because previously scheduled military exercises [are] underway.” [9/11 Commission, 7/28/2003 pdf file]

It is unclear what specific exercises these aircraft are participating in, and the exact time period Ampey is referring to. Militarized 747 Involved in 'Global Guardian' Exercise - According to journalist and author Dan Verton,

around the time of the Pentagon attack, “civilian and military officials [are] boarding a militarized version of a Boeing 747, known as the E-4B National Airborne Operations Center (NAOC), at an airfield outside of the nation’s capital.

They [are] preparing to conduct a previously scheduled Defense Department exercise” (see (Shortly Before 9:37 a.m.) September 11, 2001). [Verton, 2003, pp. 143-144]

mcgowanjm  posted on  2010-07-31   11:04:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: All (#17)

(8:58 a.m.-9:03 a.m.) September 11, 2001: Controllers Watch Flight 175 Descending 10,000 Feet per Minute Edit event

Air traffic controllers at the FAA’s New York Center who are watching Flight 175 on the radar screen (see (8:57 a.m.-9:03 a.m.) September 11, 2001) see the aircraft descending at an astonishing rate of up to 10,000 feet per minute. [The Learning Channel, 2005]

A Boeing 737 CAN NOT do this. Not w/o Flight Suit and Oxygen mask.

mcgowanjm  posted on  2010-07-31   11:04:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: All (#18)

Repeating:

W/O a Transponder on, this is being viewed by ALL FAA/SS Centers from Boston (Colin Scoggins/Military Liaison who is now taking charge of ALL BosWash Traffic Control) from Boston to Cleveland to DC.

mcgowanjm  posted on  2010-07-31   11:06:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: mcgowanjm (#19)

Repeating:

McClown, you spew bullshit like Deepwater Horizon spewed oil.

Ibluafartsky  posted on  2010-07-31   14:04:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: Wood_Chopper (#1)

the world had changed

Bullshit.

HUH? Have you lived on a different planet?

THE. WORLD. CHANGED. ON. 9/11.

It's not even an arguable point (but have at it anyway.)

Liberator  posted on  2010-08-01   11:03:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Wood_Chopper, A K A Stone (#6)

The fucking world did not change.

Your perception of the world, which can be manipulated, may have changed.

But the world did not change.

So you're claiming the world has always been the same. 9/10 was no different than 9/12?

For whom exactly?

Liberator  posted on  2010-08-01   11:05:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: A K A Stone, Wood_Chopper (#7)

I don't disagree that a massive mind control brain washing took place after 911 to make us look at the world differently.

It can be argued at every juncture of history that the Powers That Be manipulate world opinion to serve their needs.

The truth obvious is after 9/11 that life changed, just as after Decemeber 7, 1941 life changed. Mentally. Emotionally. Tangibly.

The economy changed. The extent and parameters of liberty changed. Freedom of movement changed. Minds changed. Agendas changed (individually and collectively.)

Chopper thinks it's all a mirage? Fine - he's entitled to his delusion.

Liberator  posted on  2010-08-01   11:13:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: A K A Stone, Wood_Chopper (#9)

It gave them the opportunity to change our nation. The plans were laid before though. IMO.

Yes and yes.

IOW, 9/11 changed "Life in America," circa pre-9/11/2001; NOT "Perception of Life in America."

Liberator  posted on  2010-08-01   11:16:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: Liberator, wood chopper (#21)

I think he is just saying that the world didn't change. There is still good and evil. I can understand that. He is imo opinion saying that the govt just used the event to try and change us and that we should resist. Am I close?

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-08-01   11:21:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: A K A Stone (#0)

While the example of Fox 5 is particularly cringe-inducing...

The author makes a point to single out and take an unnecessary swipe at FOX. What point did he make?

Liberator  posted on  2010-08-01   11:21:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: A K A Stone, Wood_Chopper (#25)

I think he is just saying that the world didn't change.

Yeah, and that claim is just plain goofy, isn't it? EVERYONE knows 9/11 changed to world..whether by design or by accident.

There is still good and evil. I can understand that.

Always has been and will be - that's certainly not any revelation as a result of 9/11.

He is imo opinion saying that the govt just used the event to try and change us and that we should resist. Am I close?

Wood_Chopper flat out denies that the events of 9/11 "changed the world" - nothing more. That's one of the dumbest things I've ever seen or heard claimed.

Liberator  posted on  2010-08-01   11:26:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: A K A Stone, Liberator (#25)

He is imo opinion saying that the govt just used the event to try and change us and that we should resist. Am I close?

Dead on.

And resist Liberator, unless you enjoy having your wife step in a box that radiates her and allows a government worker to see through her clothes just for her to be able to travel on an airline.

(sneakypete)DID Palin say or write these things or not?

(Mad Dog's reply) I don't know or F ing care.

Pete, MD doesn't know or care what Palin says or writes, he'll support her no matter what.

Wood_Chopper  posted on  2010-08-01   12:31:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: Wood_Chopper (#28)

I don't agree with all this enhanced security. Aren't Xrays supposed to be dangerous?

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-08-01   12:40:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: Liberator, A K A Stone (#27)

Wood_Chopper flat out denies that the events of 9/11 "changed the world" - nothing more. That's one of the dumbest things I've ever seen or heard claimed.

The "world" didn't change at all Liberator. There is still good vs. evil, there is still freedom vs. tyranny. It's EXACTLY as it was on 9/12 as it was on 9/10.

What HAS changed is peoples' PERCEPTION of it. What has changed is the amount of bullshit Americans will now put up with. The amount of their freedom and privacy they will GLADLY now hand over to the government.

The WORLD DID NOT CHANGE Liberator. People's PERCEPTION of it did.

Just as if you feel secure in your home because it has never been burglarized. Then one day you come home, your house has been ransacked, your stuff gone.

You no longer feel secure in your home, BUT NOTHING CHANGED BUT YOUR PERCEPTION OF SAFETY IN YOUR HOME. You were no safer in your home BEFORE it was burglarized than you are now. It merely hadn't been burglarized until now.

But YOU still feel you were safe in your home before the burglary, and now, after the burglary, you feel you're not. You feel "your world has changed".

But it hasn't.

And when people realize the world hasn't changed, they'll quit being fooled into giving up their freedoms.

(sneakypete)DID Palin say or write these things or not?

(Mad Dog's reply) I don't know or F ing care.

Pete, MD doesn't know or care what Palin says or writes, he'll support her no matter what.

Wood_Chopper  posted on  2010-08-01   12:49:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: Wood_Chopper (#30)

Can't argue with that.

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-08-01   12:51:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: A K A Stone (#29)

Aren't Xrays supposed to be dangerous?

My government, and the people selling the machines, have assured us it is perfectly safe.

(sneakypete)DID Palin say or write these things or not?

(Mad Dog's reply) I don't know or F ing care.

Pete, MD doesn't know or care what Palin says or writes, he'll support her no matter what.

Wood_Chopper  posted on  2010-08-01   12:54:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: All, Liberator, A K A Stone (#30)

And here's the question Liberator.

In the scenario I presented to you (your house has been burglarized), will you now allow the police department to install video cameras in your home, for your safety of course, and for the purpose of keeping society safe, as long as the police department promises you that they will turn on the cameras only when you have pressed a button on the wall indicating to the police that you are leaving your home and will not be at home?

After all, the "world has changed", now that you've been burglarized.

If you do allow the police to install the cameras, what happens if a law making it a felony to disable the already installed cameras is passed (that way another charge can be brought against the burglar if he disables the cameras) and the police decide that in the interest of your safety, and for the good of society, they will now "randomly" turn on the cameras you allowed to be installed in your home?

After all, a burglar COULD enter your home while you are in it.

Don't be surprised, if you balk at this, that they'll tell you, "The world has changed."

(sneakypete)DID Palin say or write these things or not?

(Mad Dog's reply) I don't know or F ing care.

Pete, MD doesn't know or care what Palin says or writes, he'll support her no matter what.

Wood_Chopper  posted on  2010-08-01   14:52:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: Wood_Chopper, A K A Stone (#30)

The "world" didn't change at all Liberator.

What HAS changed is peoples' PERCEPTION of it. What has changed is the amount of bullshit Americans will now put up with. The amount of their freedom and privacy they will GLADLY now hand over to the government.

So the world HAS changed afterall, eh? HELLO!

Liberator  posted on  2010-08-01   17:55:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: Wood_Chopper, A K A Stone (#33)

And here's the question Liberator.

In the scenario I presented to you (your house has been burglarized), will you now allow the police department to install video cameras in your home, for your safety of course, and for the purpose of keeping society safe, as long as the police department promises you that they will turn on the cameras only when you have pressed a button on the wall indicating to the police that you are leaving your home and will not be at home?

After all, the "world has changed", now that you've been burglarized.

Look, you're the one claiming "the world hasn't changed" - not me. You're only helping make my point to begin with.

With the unnecessary and unconstitutional intrusion into our privacy after 9/11 (the day you claim didn't change anything), most Americans have seen their rights and security sabotaged, instability in their jobs and economy, a more brazen and over-officious government, and more a destabilized and divisive populace.

9/11.

CHANGED.

EVERYTHING.

Liberator  posted on  2010-08-01   18:05:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: A K A Stone (#0)

Americans in general are so myopic and insular.

Europeans suffered for decades with Islamic terrorism. I remember when I was stationed in Europe in the 1980s, I read a book "The Terror Network"

9/11 only brought America to the fight. Yes, I guess that changed the world because the American people were (sort of) finally paying attention.

jwpegler  posted on  2010-08-01   18:42:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: jwpegler (#36)

Americans in general are so myopic and insular.

That's the way they been trained by socialist propagandists CBS, NBC, and ABC. Plus we haven't had to deal with the aftermath of WWII. But then that's not really our fault, is it?

Liberator  posted on  2010-08-01   20:50:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: Liberator (#35)

Look, you're the one claiming "the world hasn't changed" - not me. You're only helping make my point to begin with.

With the unnecessary and unconstitutional intrusion into our privacy after 9/11 (the day you claim didn't change anything), most Americans have seen their rights and security sabotaged, instability in their jobs and economy, a more brazen and over-officious government, and more a destabilized and divisive populace.

9/11.

CHANGED.

EVERYTHING.

Nothing has changed except the people's acceptance of what you've posted.

Whether you understand it or not, we agree.

(sneakypete)DID Palin say or write these things or not?

(Mad Dog's reply) I don't know or F ing care.

Pete, MD doesn't know or care what Palin says or writes, he'll support her no matter what.

Wood_Chopper  posted on  2010-08-01   21:16:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: Wood_Chopper (#38)

Nothing has changed except the people's acceptance of what you've posted.

Whether you understand it or not, we agree.

I think you two and myself are pretty much on the same page as well.

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-08-01   21:19:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: Liberator (#34) (Edited)

So the world HAS changed afterall, eh? HELLO!

No, the world hasn't changed. People's PERCEPTION of the world has changed.

Perceptions can be manipulated.

Life's a game. The game hasn't changed.

(sneakypete)DID Palin say or write these things or not?

(Mad Dog's reply) I don't know or F ing care.

Pete, MD doesn't know or care what Palin says or writes, he'll support her no matter what.

Wood_Chopper  posted on  2010-08-01   21:20:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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