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Title: Court Sets Ominous Precedent: Informing Jurors of Their Rights Is Now ILLEGAL
Source: From The Trenches
URL Source: http://fromthetrenchesworldreport.c ... rors-rights-now-illegal/200165
Published: Jun 2, 2017
Author: Justin Gardner
Post Date: 2017-06-03 10:38:54 by Deckard
Keywords: None
Views: 119117
Comments: 422

Big Rapids, MI — As constitutional rights are steadily eroded in the U.S. through the burgeoning police/surveillance state, one case in Michigan provides an example of just how dire the situation has gotten. Keith Woods, a resident of Mecosta County, was charged and recently convicted for the “crime” of standing on a public sidewalk and handing out fliers about juror rights.

Woods was exercising his First Amendment rights and raising awareness about something the courts deliberately fail to tell jurors when beginning a trial – jury nullification, or the right to vote one’s conscience. For this, Woods – a father of eight and former pastor – was charged with jury tampering, after an initial felony charge of obstructing justice was dropped following public outcry.

Even with the reduced charge, the case has very troubling implications for free speech rights. The county prosecutor, seemingly furious that a citizen would dare inform the public on jury nullification, said Woods’ pamphlet “is designed to benefit a criminal defendant.”

The prosecutor then seemed to contradict himself in a statement, saying, “Once again the pamphlet by itself, fine, people have views on what the law should be, that’s fine. It’s the manner by which this pamphlet was handed out.”

Woods, who testified in his own defense, stated under oath that he did not ask anyone walking into the courthouse if they were a juror, remained on the public sidewalk and never blocked any area. He decided to hand out the pamphlets at a Nov. 24, 2015 trial of an Amish man accused of draining a wetland on his property in violation of Dept. of Environment Quality rules.

Woods’ pamphlet did not contain anything specific to the case or any Michigan court, according to defense attorney David Kallman. But this innocuous behavior, which should be viewed as a public service, drew the attention of a judge who became “very concerned” when he saw the pamphlets being carried by some of the jury pool.

“I THOUGHT THIS WAS GOING TO TRASH MY JURY TRIAL, BASICALLY,” TESTIFIED JUDGE [PETER] JAKLEVIC. “IT JUST DIDN’T SOUND RIGHT.”

JACKLEVIC ENDED UP SENDING THAT JURY POOL HOME ON NOV. 24, 2015 WHEN YODER TOOK A PLEA.

JAKLEVIC CONTINUED TO TESTIFY THAT HE STEPPED INTO THE HALLWAY WITH MECOSTA COUNTY PROSECUTOR BRIAN THIEDE WHEN DET. ERLANDSON AND A DEPUTY BROUGHT WOOD INTO THE COURTHOUSE THAT DAY. MECOSTA COUNTY DEPUTY JEFF ROBERTS TESTIFIED HE “ASKED WOOD TO COME INSIDE BECAUSE THE JUDGE WANTED TO TALK WITH HIM,” THEN THREATENED TO CALL A CITY COP IF WOOD DID NOT COME INSIDE.

WOOD TESTIFIED JUDGE JAKLEVIC NEVER SPOKE TO HIM THAT DAY, OR HIM ANY QUESTIONS, BEFORE ORDERING HIS ARREST. HE TELLS FOX 17 HE HAD CONCERNS HIS CASE WAS TRIED IN MECOSTA COUNTY WHERE ALL OF THIS HAPPENED, INVOLVING SEVERAL COURT OFFICIALS INCLUDING THE JUDGE.”

To recap, this judge said “it just didn’t sound right” that people were carrying information pamphlets on their rights as jurors, and he possibly lied on the stand to justify the fact that he had Woods arrested for doing nothing wrong. What’s more, Woods was brought to trial in the same court where all of this transpired and county officials had literally teamed up to violate his rights in the first place.

So our taxpayer dollars are paying their salary, and they were the actors in this case to arrest me, to imprison me, and all that,” said Woods. “I did have a very great concern that they were the ones trying the case, because they work together day in and day out.

Defense attorney Kallman notes that during Woods’ trial, they were prohibited from arguing several points to the jury.

And of course, the First Amendment issues are critical: that we believe our client had the absolute First Amendment right to hand out these brochures right here on this sidewalk,” said Kallman. “That’s part of the problem of where we feel we were handcuffed quite a bit.

When asked how he felt about his First Amendment rights, Woods replied, Oh, I don’t feel like I have them.

We had briefs about the First Amendment, free speech. It was very clear today, I know the jury doesn’t hear that, but it was very clear that the government did not meet their burden to restrict my free speech on that public sidewalk that day. It was very clear.

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#376. To: misterwhite (#374)

Geez Louise. That entire exchange was a waste of time. Speculation and innuendo isn't evidence. Is that all you got?

Collin Yamauchi allegedly performed the same tests and a few more with results overnight, while it took the State expert a week. The point was well made that the Yamauchi claim that he did not rush, and performed professionally without risking cross-contamination, was exposed as an absurdity.

The jury got the message. Even you got the message.

Here it is again with the part you focus on denoted by strike-through.

THE COURT: Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. Please be seated. Mr. Sims. All right. Let the record reflect that we have been rejoined by all the members of our jury panel. Mr. Scheck, you may continue with your cross-examination.
MR. SCHECK: Thank you, your Honor.
MR. SCHECK: Mr. Sims, at the break you were kind enough to review your notes with me concerning those--the 21 samples. Do you recall that?
MR. SIMS: Yes.
MR. SCHECK: All right. And you indicated that the maximum number of samples that you processed from the initial cutting of the swatches to the reporting of results in one run was 21 samples, correct?
MR. SIMS: Yes, and that would include the quality control sample, the extraction blank and then substrate controls intervening the stains.
MR. SCHECK: Right. Now, at the break you and I reviewed your notes as to how long--how long it took you to do that procedure with the 21 samples from beginning to end?
MR. SIMS: Yes.
MR. SCHECK: And umm, I think you began that on the 8th of September?
MR. SIMS: Yes.
MR. SCHECK: Half day?
MR. SIMS: Yes, that is what we figured.
MR. SCHECK: And then September 9th you said it took you all day?
MR. SIMS: Yes.
MR. SCHECK: And then September 14th, another half day?
MR. SIMS: Yes.
MR. SCHECK: And September 15th, at least a half day, maybe three-quarters of a day?
MR. SIMS: Something like that, yes.
MR. SCHECK: Then September 20th a half day?
MR. SIMS: Yes.
MR. SCHECK: September 21st, a day?
MR. SIMS: Yes.
MR. SCHECK: Altogether, between yourself and Miss Montgomery, who participated in the process, how many days did it take you to process those samples from beginning to end?
MR. SIMS: From the point of--of sampling to having a typing result on DQ-Alpha?
MR. SCHECK: Yeah.
MR. SIMS: That was about 7 working days.
MR. SCHECK: 7 working days?
MR. SIMS: Approximately.
MR. SCHECK: Can you imagine being able to process those samples, 21 samples from beginning to end, in one day?
MR. HARMON: Objection, calls for speculation, imagination.
THE COURT: Sustained. Sustained.

The jury heard the question, and they and everyone else knew the only possible answer. Continue to make believe if you will, it is amusing.

nolu chan  posted on  2017-07-28   16:50:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#377. To: nolu chan (#376)

The jury heard the question, and they and everyone else knew the only possible answer.

I'll say it again. If the prosecution pulled that stunt you'd be crying 'mistrial'.

The only possible answer? What's the question? You're saying there could be cross-contamination. Well. Was there or not? If there was, where's your evidence?

misterwhite  posted on  2017-07-28   17:25:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#378. To: misterwhite (#377)

I'll say it again. If the prosecution pulled that stunt you'd be crying 'mistrial'.

It is done in every trial by both sides, as you well know. Only you would think of crying "mistrial!"

In fact, there was no mistrial. All that preceded that last question you are obsessed with came in as evidence. The evidence is clear that Collin Yamauchi could not, and did not, process all the samples in one day and also adhere to proper protocols. He exposed everything to cross-contamination. Dr. John Gerdes could not have made that clearer.

During the trial, the defense team raised questions about the crime scene practices of the police and even cited a prior edition of this textbook to suggest that the police acted improperly in processing the scene. An important lesson from this case is that appearance and perception, as well as the ability to communicate effectively to a jury, are equally important. Appearances and perception are every bit as important as knowledge, skills, and ability, at least in the eyes of the jury and the public. If the defense can make it appear that evidence was handled in an improper manner, the jury may agree.

Barry A.J. Fisher, Techniques of Crime Scene Investigation, 7th ed., pg. 49, referring to the O.J. Simpson trial.

A further lesson to be learned from the Simpson case is that the focus of forensic science is shifting from the laboratory to the crime scene. The crime scene investigation process is taking on a more prominent role. Defense attorneys are quick to learn that, if they can show that the initial handling of the physical evidence at the crime scene was faulty and calls into question subsequent lab work, the evidence may be kept out of the trial or at least tarnished in the eyes of the jury.

Id. at 50.

Fung and Mazzola were a disaster, at the crime scene and on the witness stand.

The jury found no satisfactory answer for the EDTA or how the blood on the gate had been exposed to the weather for weeks and had not degraded.

nolu chan  posted on  2017-07-28   19:35:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#379. To: misterwhite (#377)

Not only did Dr. John Gerdes testify to the protocols violated by Collin Yamauchi, so did Gary Sims, a prosecution witness from the California DOJ.

AEROSOL CONTAMINATION - Scheck cross of Gary Sims of Cal. DoJ

MR. SCHECK: Now, the--there are other kinds of precautions that one takes in terms of processing samples for purposes of forensic DNA typing, aside from the ones we've previously reviewed, in terms of which kind of samples one would handle at different times and different places?
MR. SIMS: Yes.
MR. SCHECK: All right. Now, let's start first with aerosols.
MR. SIMS: Okay.
MR. SCHECK: Now, one kind of aerosol we have already discussed is the kind of spray that can occur when one opens up a tube?
MR. SIMS: Yes. If one has not spun it down, that is a concern because you can get liquid accumulating under the top of the cap.
MR. SCHECK: Uh-huh. And this would apply also to one of these lavender-topped tubes that contains reference samples?
MR. SIMS: Well, they are under vacuum, so yes, that is a concern when you open one of those for the first time.
MR. SCHECK: And when you open one of those for the first time, one has to be quite careful about the aerosol of whole blood from the reference tube?
MR. SIMS: Yes.
MR. SCHECK: And in pouring that out, let's say, onto one of these paper cards, one has to take great care?
MR. SIMS: Well, one has to be careful about what else is in the laboratory, yes.
MR. SCHECK: Now, aside from aerosols from liquids, can one have aerosols from dried biological particles?
MR. SIMS: I don't know if they are possibly called aerosols, but you can have, for example, powdered blood, something like that. You have to be concerned about that.
MR. SCHECK: Powdered blood would be small particles of dried blood?
MR. SIMS: Yes.
MR. SCHECK: Now, if one were to take a test-tube that contained blood swatches that had dried on the inside of the test-tube--
MR. SIMS: Okay.
MR. SCHECK: --and then one takes a pipette, holding the test-tube up and scrapes the bloodstains out of the test-tube with the pipette--
THE COURT: Swatches?
MR. SCHECK: I'm sorry?
THE COURT: The swatches.
MR. SCHECK: Swatches?
MR. SIMS: Okay.
MR. SCHECK: Out of the pipette?
MR. SIMS: Okay.
MR. SCHECK: Are you with me?
MR. SIMS: Yes.
MR. SCHECK: Could that not cause an aerosol of powdered blood to fall on the surface over which the test-tube was held?
MR. SIMS: Well, in my experience, with that kind of a sample you usually see some flakes. It is not as fine a powder but you see more of like a flake, flaky effect.
MR. SCHECK: You could see a flake, but in terms of the dried swatch, could be an aerosol?
MR. SIMS: Again, I'm not sure that is the right term, but if you are talking about airborne particles, yes.
MR. SCHECK: Airborne particles?

MR. SIMS: Yes.
MR. SCHECK: And the pipette itself is a flexible instrument?
MR. SIMS: Now by pipette do you mean one of those that has a disposable tip on it or do you mean like a glass--can you--
MR. SCHECK: Glass.
MR. SIMS: Yes. Well, it is not very flexible; it is glass.
MR. SCHECK: Well, one of those thin plastic ones?
MR. SIMS: Oh, okay, yes, those are flexible.
MR. SCHECK: Right, and he can flick particles?
MR. SIMS: Yes, yes.
MR. SCHECK: Especially when you are pulling out of a tube?
MR. SIMS: Yes.
MR. SCHECK: So that is another kind of aerosol if--using that definition?
MR. SIMS: Yes, yes.
MR. SCHECK: And these are particles of blood?
MR. SIMS: Yes.
MR. SCHECK: From which nanograms of DNA can be extracted?
MR. SIMS: Well, if these are real small specks, I don't think you could get nanograms.
MR. SCHECK: Well--
MR. SIMS: I mean if you--
MR. SCHECK: Again how many?
MR. HARMON: Objection, your Honor, he cut off his answer.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. SCHECK: I'm sorry. Did you finish, Mr. Sims?
MR. SIMS: I was going to say if you had a large flake, then that would be nanogram quantities, but not the kind of minute specks that I think you are talking about. Those are not nanogram quantities usually.
MR. SCHECK: Well, let's go back to our discussion of specks.
MR. SIMS: Okay.
MR. SCHECK: All right.
MR. SIMS: Yes.
MR. SCHECK: How small a particle can one get to derive two nanograms of DNA?
MR. SIMS: Well, from that, if it was solid blood, it would be a very small flake, something like that.
MR. SCHECK: Now, let's turn to paper.
MR. SIMS: Okay.
MR. SCHECK: When examining biological specimens, is it not an important precaution, to change paper just in examining each item?
MR. SIMS: I think that is an important precaution, yes.
MR. SCHECK: So just so we know what we are talking about, let's say you were examining a blood swatch on a white piece of--what do they call it in labs? Butcher paper?
MR. SIMS: Yes.
MR. SCHECK: After examining that swatch it would be important to remove the paper from which the swatch came before then examining another swatch on that paper?
MR. SIMS: Yes. In other words, you wouldn't want to put two swatches on the same piece of paper. I would agree with that.

nolu chan  posted on  2017-07-28   19:43:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#380. To: nolu chan (#378)

The jury found no satisfactory answer for the EDTA or how the blood on the gate had been exposed to the weather for weeks and had not degraded.

Well, let's see. The defense never did show the evidence was planted or manufactured, so what does that leave us with? An unexplainable truth.

The jury was given no reason to disregard this evidence. It is what it is, even if it can't be explained by the prosecution or the defense.

misterwhite  posted on  2017-07-28   20:20:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#381. To: nolu chan (#379)

Any actual evidence of cross-contamination? No? Next subject.

misterwhite  posted on  2017-07-28   20:42:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#382. To: misterwhite (#375)

What's the point of me searching for and posting testimony that destroys your speculation if your response is going to be a flippant, "Oh, he lied"?

"The stain soaked through to the opposite surface, a phenomenon which would not have occurred if there was a foot in the sock when the blood came in contact with it."

What's the point of your providing another unidentified quote, making believe it is testimony? And doing so making believe that it was inconsistent expert scientific testimony?

  • You did not search up what you quoted.

  • It was never testimony at any trial.

  • It was not made by any scientific expert.

Once again, you excerpted and ripped out of context, a quote by an attorney from his lawbook, and he was not discussing the manner of transfer of a blood stain.

The scientific experts testified that there was a compression transfer and the blood was forced through by applied pressure with a well defined perimeter indicating that, if done by hand, it was not more than one finger that was used to apply the pressure.

I provided the expert scientific opinions of Dr. Herbert MacDonnell and Dr. Henry Lee, testified to at trial as evidence, accompanied at trial by undeniable photographic evidence.

Again, the full quote, in context, with the words correctly attributed to attorney Gerald F. Uelman, former Dean of Santa Clara Law School:

The blue font is of your first pull quote and this current out of context pull quote. I am thje one who search it up and posted it, clearly identifying the author as attorney Gerald F. Uelman.

The blood on the sock and the blood on the back gate were keystones in the defense argument that blood evidence had been “planted” in the case. Defense experts testified the stain on the back gate was suspicious for two reasons: (1) although it was not “discovered” until two weeks after the crime scene had been cleaned up, the samples were far less degraded that the samples recovered the morning after the murders; (2) analysis of the sample showed the presence of EDTA, a preservative used to prevent coagulation of blood specimens in test tubes, but not found in natural blood. The stain on the sock was not observed by the detectives who seized it, the criminalists who initially examined it, or the defense experts who initially examined it. The stain soaked through to the opposite surface, a phenomenon which would not have occurred if there was a foot in the sock when the blood came in contact with it.

Attorney Gerald F. Uelmen, The O.J. Files, Evidentiary Issues in a Tactical Context, American Casebook Series, West Group, St. Paul, Minn., 1998, at 37-38.

That is not testimony, it is from a book and clearly identified as such, the author is clearly identified as an attorney and not a scientist, and he was clearly not making a point about the manner of transfer. He was making the point that the blood could not have transferred from surface 2 to surface 3 if there was a foot in the sock. It is clearly not inconsistent scientific opinion about the manner of transfer of the blood stain.

It is, once again, your underhanded bullshit method of argument, because you are too lazy to search up and provide actual evidence or testimony.

As another reminder, you made the claim that the prosecution in the criminal trial produced 10 times the evidence required to enable the jury to return a verdict of guilty. We are now nearly 400 posts into the thread and you have yet to produce any evidence.

nolu chan  posted on  2017-07-29   16:11:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#383. To: misterwhite (#375)

OJ murdered the two, rushed home, took off his socks and threw them on the floor. Of course the blood was still wet. It transferred and then it dried.

Don't leave out that O.J. supposedly did this without getting a detectable spot of blood on the light colored carpet. And the magic socks came and went in a ghostly fashion. Johnnie Cochran's closing argument on the socks was epic. Thje moving luggage straps told a story for which the prosecution could offer no effective rebuttal.

Dr. Herbert MacDonnell and Dr. Henry Lee provided the scientific proof that what you suggest was impossible. Deal with it. The jury did and found Dr. Henry Lee most impressive. It is sad that you are willfully unable to understand the conclusions stated by Drs. MacDonnell and Lee. The prosecution presented no effective rebuttal to the expert testimony of Dr. Herbart MacDonnell and Dr. Henry Lee regarding the socks.

Like Dr. Henry Lee. Now he was a very impressive gentleman. Highly intelligent, world-renowned. I had a lot of respect for Dr. Lee. There's just something about his approach that makes you respect him. I sort of felt that the prosecution dogged him out basically when he was trying to test some of the items and they wouldn't give him either the proper equipment of the time necessary to investigate like he wanted to. But, basically, I liked him. He was a very impressive witness.

Madam Foreman, pg 119

Also Dr. MacDonnell.

"They were looking to see how much EDTA was in there and we in order to see it you have to have all of these ions in there for it to be present," Carrie explains. "And Herbert MacDonell stated that the ions were there, all of them. But the guy who tested the EDTA said it wasn't fair and all of the signs showed the same wavelength. When he was asked about it, about all the wavelengths being the same, he said that was just noise in the machine. That the machine was noisy. So the question we had was, How can you call this set 'noise' and tell us we should ignore it, even though it had the same frequencies as the one that represents the presence of the ions? So I think he picked the parts that he wanted. And so that was questionable."

"All these factors added up. Something wasn't right there," says Marsha. "The blood was being mishandled, the evidence was being mishandled, they put into my mind that there is a possibility of cross-contamination. The experts came and explained that, yes, there is contamination here. What I'm saying is that I had doubt that these things could have happened."

Madam Foreman, pg 120

The jurors saw what the willfully ignorant refuse to see.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Fuhrman is a liar

He was convicted of felony perjury for having lied under oath. On tape, he bragged about lying and planting of evidence. You must be the last person on Earth to contest the established fact that Fuhrman lied to the jury.

Vanatter lied.

Yes, Vannatter demonstrably lied under oath. No doubt about it.

Vannatter, Affidavit for Search Warrant, June 13, 1994

Detectives observed what appeared to be human blood, later confirmed by Scientific Investigation personnel to be human blood on the drivers door handle of the vehicle.

[...]

Blood droplets were subsequently observed leading from the vehicle on the street to the front door of the residence.

[...]

During the securing of the residence a man's leather glove containing human blood was also observed on the south side of the residence.

At the time of swearing, Vannatter had no proof of the presence of blood, much less human blood. A phenolphthalein test is not capable of confirming the presence of blood, or discerning between human or animal blood. At best, the positive presumptive test can indicate the possible presence of blood.

It was determined Simpson had left on an unexpected flight to Chicago during the early morning hours of June 13, 1994

Arnelle Simpson and Kato Kaelin had stated that Simpson left on a planned trip to Chicago for Hertz.

As bad as his blatant lies was his omission of the fact that entry had been gained by jumping the fence in the absence of a warrant.

nolu chan  posted on  2017-07-29   16:13:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#384. To: misterwhite (#380)

Well, let's see. The defense never did show the evidence was planted or manufactured, so what does that leave us with? An unexplainable truth.

You have this hysterical need to reverse the burden of proof. The defense has no burden of proof. The prosecution bears the entire burden of proof. The defense must only create reasonable doubt.

Advance to 47m46s

Youtube link

47:46 - 59:38 - The magic socks, Ford video and still photos

OJ Simpson Trial - September 27th, 1995 - Part 4

OJ Trial Uncut

Published on Nov 29, 2016

**THIS HAS BEEN REPOSTED TO PROVIDE A BETTER QUALITY VIEWING CLIP.

OJ Simpson criminal trial from September 27th, 1995. (Johnnie Cochran, Raw, Uncut)

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Cochran closing argument, 27 Sept 1995, [excerpt]

Then we come to those socks. Those socks. They just don't fit. They just don't fit. They just don't fit.

Watch with me now a video. I want you to watch the time counter in this time frame, and you'll understand how important this is.

MR. DOUGLAS: 1068, your Honor.

(At 6:48 P.M., Deft's 1068, a videotape was played.)

MR. COCHRAN: Now, where it says 3:13 P.M., Mr. Willie Ford says--all right. Back it up, please. This is Mr. Willie Ford going up into the bedroom. It's 3:13 where he says it's 4:14 because it hadn't been changed. It's 4:13 P.M. on June 13th, 1994. Okay. Thank you, your Honor. You look at the foot of the bed there where the socks are supposed to be. You'll see no socks in this video. And you'll recall that Mr. Willie Ford testified about this. And I asked him, "Well, where are the socks, Mr. Ford?" "I didn't see any socks." So now, that's interesting, isn't it? At 4:13 on June 13th, 1994, these socks are supposedly recovered, these mysterious socks, these socks that no one sees any blood on until August 4th all of a sudden, these socks that are picked up that Luper says he picks them up because they look out of place. "I don't see any reason to pick them up. I'll just take these socks because they look out of place." The only items that they took out of that place on that date is Lange. Lange takes the Reebok tennis shoes, the ones that he takes home. You remember that. That's all they really take because they don't come back until the 28th before they get that one brown glove. But these socks will be their undoing. It just doesn't fit. None of you can deny there are no socks at the foot of that bed 4:13 P.M. Where then are the socks? Where are these socks, this important piece of evidence? Well, let me show you something. This board here was a board used by Dr. Henry Lee. This is interesting. Bear with me for a moment as you look at this.

THE COURT: Is this 1352?

MR. DOUGLAS: 52.

THE COURT: Thank you.

MR. COCHRAN: In this photograph here, the one on the left, your Honor, if you'll notice, the socks are at the foot of the bed. If you look close at this photograph, you'll see there's no little white card there. You notice how they put these little evidence cards there when they're going to collect something. No little white card on this photograph here. And this is interesting, because you see these straps on the bed. Now, Luper told us when he testified, these straps were like--he called them some kind of luggage straps. And these luggage straps are down at this point, aren't they? See how they're down? No evidence card and the socks are there.

We come over to this photograph here. Notice how the strap is now up on the bed? No longer hanging down anymore. It's been moved up. And Luper says that's when he looks under this bed and he sees that photograph. By the way, how wrong can they continue to be? That's no wedding photograph. That's no wedding. That's a photograph they took at some formal event. You look at that photograph and see. That's how they speculate. And most times, they've been wrong.

But this is interesting. The strap is now up on the bed. And you look at the socks. Now it's been posed for you. Here is this no. 13 out here with these socks. Now, you look back at that video, and you'll have it. You'll notice that the video has the strap down. So the video is at a time before this card was placed, before the strap is up, before this is about to be collected. Now, isn't that strange, because at 4:13, there are no socks there.

Now, how do we tie all this together? Do you remember, Fung and Mazzola have a log. And on their log, they tell when they collected things. They tell us that they collected the blood in the foyer at 4:30, that they then came upstairs, that they collect--here it is as we speak.

MR. DOUGLAS: 1091, your Honor.

THE COURT: Thank you.

MR. COCHRAN: Can you move it over a little bit, Mr. Harris? Now, you see this where they collected things sequentially and they kept this log. And I think that you'll remember the testimony that at 4:30, they collected the blood in the foyer. Remember that? Let me see if I can point that out for you. In the foyer, red stain. And there's testimony--they testified 4:30. 1630 is 4:30. This is--well, this is at least 17 minutes after Mr. Ford is up there with that camera where there are no socks, right?

So 1630, right there. They're downstairs. Then they say they go upstairs and they leave this time blank. But at 1640, they go and they look at this little red spot in the bathroom. Remember that? And they say in their testimony that the socks are collected between 1630 and 1640. So let's give them the benefit of the doubt, 1635. How could the socks be there at 4:35 when you just saw they're not there at 4:13? Who's fooling whom here? Setting this man up, and you can see it with your own eyes. You're not naive. Nobody is foolish here.

Then they forget about this little strap exercise and they're posing stuff here. They move this off the bed, move this under the bed. They're going to make a big thing about this photograph under the bed. Then they put this number down here and they take these pictures for you later. But they didn't know that we would know or find out about Mr. Ford's video. So they took that video--you know, we talked about this early on. LAPD should always take videos of everything at that crime scene. They don't do that. But they took this video not because they wanted to help Mr. Simpson. If anything was missing or got broken, this was a civil liability video. Remember, they were going around taking photographs of things that might be missing of whatever if there was ever a suit later on.

But they got hoisted by their own petard again because the video has the counter and the number. They will never, ever be able to explain that to you because we've got the testimony in black and white as when they went upstairs and collected them. Those socks from the beginning is going to bring them down. So those are the socks, these socks. No dirt, no soil, no berries, no trace.

Nobody sees any blood until August 4th. All these miraculous things start happening, and then--Mr. Scheck will talk more about this. Then we find out it has EDTA in it. Is it planted along with that back gate? How would it be on there? Why didn't they see the blood before that? There's a big fight here. Where is the dirt? Why would Mr. Simpson have on these kind of socks with a sweat outfit? Wait a minute. Now, you don't have to be like from the fashion police to know that. You don't wear those kinds of socks. You wear those kind of socks with a suit. You don't wear those kind of socks with a sweat outfit. Doesn't it make sense to you that those socks were in that hamper from Saturday night when Mr. Simpson went to that formal event? Those kind of socks is what you wear with your tuxedo when he was dressed with those other ladies.

They went and took it out of the hamper and staged it there, and you see what happened. Is that not reasonable under these facts? I think you'll agree it is. It's the only reasonable explanation. It's posed there. And the reason for doing this is because they were out of place. But isn't that interesting, in the hamper in which Luper went and they all went, they didn't take anything else? You'd think the police would ask Mr. Simpson, "What were you wearing? In addition to the suit, what were you wearing that night?" They didn't take one thing. Yet we hear all this talk about, I wonder where the clothes went, I wonder where the clothes went. You'd think Mr. Simpson, who told them everything, cooperated with them fully, told them, like he told them about those shoes, what he was wearing. They didn't bother collecting those, did they? No towels, no nothing.

She's worried about him taking this quick shower. If he took a shower, there's so much blood, he's covered with blood, why didn't they bring the towels in here? Something is wrong in this case. It just doesn't fit. When it doesn't fit, you must acquit.

So the socks-- I could talk about these socks forever, but I'm not going to do that because Mr. Scheck will talk about the forensic aspect of it. But let me just remind you of two quick more things. Dr. Herbert MacDonell came in here and he told you there was no splatter or spatter on these socks. These socks had compression transfer, and he used his hands to show you somebody took those socks and they put something on them and it went all the way through to side 3. Now, with all their experts bringing people back three, four times, they never had anybody to contravene that. How did that get over to side 3? How did it get over there? It wouldn't get there if there was a leg in the sock. Can anybody explain that? Can any of you explain that? Maybe Miss Clark can explain that. Experts can't explain it. Something is wrong.

Then finally the EDTA which indicates the anticoagulant from a purple top tube is where that blood is from. The socks, as you know, are something that you want to get emotional about because we've known about these socks for some time. This is to say the least disturbing. It's worse than that though. In my opening statement, I told you about evidence that would be compromised, contaminated and corrupted and I told you something then. I said in this case, there's something even far more sinister.

The socks are one example of that. Now, if you want to be fair deciding this case, you've got to deal with these socks. You'll get a chance to see them. Look for the dirt that you expect on them. Look for the spatter that you expect on them. Look and see why it went over to side 3. There's a leg in it. Now, isn't it interesting how you get this blood on this sock with your pants? Your pants have to be almost up. This would take a real contortion to do it. There's no way they could explain it. So let's just leave it where it is and Mr. Scheck will pick up on that. Then we've heard a lot about the so-called blood in the Bronco. ...

nolu chan  posted on  2017-07-29   16:31:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#385. To: misterwhite (#381)

Any actual evidence of cross-contamination? No? Next subject.

You once again exhibit your hysterical need to reverse the burden of proof. The defense has no burden of proof. The prosecution bears the sole burden of proof. The prosecution must prove that the evidence was not contaminated or manufactured. The defense need only create reasonable doubt. They did.

As the jury foreman said,

One of the crucial moments where I changed my thinking was when I heard evidence about the glove. The testimony about the drying time of blood on leather was that it would take anywhere from three to four hours, and the glove was not picked up until seven or seven and a half hours later. Another issue was about the blood drops on the socks and the location of the drops. Another episode that changed my mind was basically the picking up of the evidence weeks later and when they tested it, the results were so much different—the DNA content being so much different the the original drops were.

And juror Carrie Bess said, "there was EDTA in some of the drops."

The significant blood evidence was collected weeks after the murders, along with EDTA and results wildly inconsistent with the original collections, accompanied with a cock and bull stories that the jury did not believe.

- - - - - - - - - -

CROSS CONTAMINATION - Scheck cross of Gary Sims of Cal. DoJ

MR. SCHECK: Right. And we agreed that in handling degraded samples, that is, the fact that samples are degraded creates a risk of cross-contamination in and of itself?
MR. SIMS: Yes. There is greater risk with those samples.
MR. SCHECK: And handling a reference sample, I am now looking at the test-tube plus one, all right?
MR. SIMS: Okay.
MR. SCHECK: --reference sample in the same area during the same period, either by pouring off sample from the--popping up the top of the tube, pouring it onto a card and in the same area during the same period, one is handling evidence samples, that kind of situation can increase of risk of cross contamination?
MR. HARMON: Objection. "period" is vague, your Honor.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MR. SIMS: Yes.
MR. SCHECK: And handling samples from a suspect and a victim at the same time can create a risk of cross-contamination of sample?
MR. SIMS: Can we clarify a little bit about suspect and victim? I think we had a had a little--
MR. SCHECK: You recall that discussion that is represented by that logo, without reviewing it all?
MR. SIMS: Yes, I think we talked about that.
MR. SCHECK: And then we talked about samples represented by that scale of samples with high DNA concentration and low DNA concentration?
MR. SIMS: Yes.
MR. SCHECK: And then we talked about samples from different crime scenes?
MR. SIMS: Yes.
MR. SCHECK: And we talked about handling many samples at the same time?
MR. SIMS: Yes.
MR. SCHECK: Now, with respect to all those different contamination factors to the right of the line, those represent in a sense situations that can raise the level of risk in terms of making an inadvertent transfer of cross-contamination?
MR. SIMS: Yes.
MR. SCHECK: Now, looking to the factors on the left-hand side--
MR. SIMS: Okay.
MR. SCHECK: --if you combine the creation of an aerosol--
THE COURT: Excuse me, counsel. This witness has never adopted your characterization of aerosol. Airborne particles perhaps; not aerosol.
MR. SCHECK: Thank you.
MR. SCHECK: Airborne articles represented by the clip art of fireworks?
MR. SIMS: I like that.
MR. SCHECK: Thank you. All right. Talking about airborne particles, all right?
MR. SIMS: Okay.
MR. SCHECK: Combining that with any of these other situations to the right of the line, that is a--sort of a mechanism of transfer that would increase the risk of cross-contamination?
MR. SIMS: Yes.
MR. SCHECK: And the paper, you recall our discussion about not changing paper?
MR. SIMS: Yes.
MR. SCHECK: If you combine not changing paper with each of those situations, that is a mechanism of transfer that can increase the risk of cross-contamination?
MR. SIMS: Yes.
MR. SCHECK: And with respect to the bunsen burner representing the cleaning of instruments, if one does not adequately clean instruments, that can be a mechanism of transfer that facilitates crosscontamination, raises the level of risk in the other situations to the right of that white line?
MR. SIMS: Yes.
MR. SCHECK: And with respect to gloves, gloves, either not changing gloves or washing gloves--
MR. SIMS: Right.
MR. SCHECK: --okay, between samples, combined with any of those other factors to the right of the line, can become a mechanism of transfer for cross-contamination?
MR. SIMS: Yes.
MR. SCHECK: Thank you.

nolu chan  posted on  2017-07-29   16:49:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#386. To: misterwhite (#381)

Any actual evidence of cross-contamination? No? Next subject.

Yes, actual testimonial affirmative evidence of cross-contamination. I can only post it, but it is evident nothing can make you read it. However I will repeat an excerpt of it from my #368, by scientific expert Dr. John Gerdes. He gave explicit testimony of contaminated reference samples of blood for Nicole Simpson and Ron Goldman.

Lawrence Schiller, American Tragedy, pbk, 569-70:

Some months earlier, the defense had hired Dr. John Gerdes to evaluate LAPD crime lab procedures in the year before the case. He concluded the lab was a "cesspool of contamination," and he would testify to that. Gerdes had also discovered that the vials containing the reference samples from Nicole and Goldman were contaminated with Simpson's DNA. That fact and its implications were crucial.

Testimony of Dr. John Gerdes

MR. SCHECK: Okay. So from looking here at the LAPD typing sheet--now, with respect to item no. 12, is it your understanding, sir, that item no. 12 were--drops in Mr. Simpson's foyer that were the last blood drops collected on June 13?
DR. GERDES: That's correct.

- - - - - - - - - -

MR. SCHECK: Well, do you know if Mr. Yamauchi handled item no. 12 in the same time and location that he handled the reference samples from Nicole Brown Simpson and Mr. Goldman on June 15th?
MR. CLARKE: Same objection.
THE COURT: Overruled.
DR. GERDES: Yes, he did.

- - - - - - - - - -

MR. SCHECK: All right. What did these results indicate to you?
MR. CLARKE: Same objection.
THE COURT: Overruled.
DR. GERDES: These results are consistent with cross-contamination of the 1.2 from item 12 into Nicole Brown Simpson and Ron Goldman's reference samples.

- - - - - - - - - -

MR. SCHECK: But what about the 1.2 dot on Nicole Brown Simpson's reference sample? Is that an artifact or contaminant?
DR. GERDES: That's a contaminant because the 1.2 doesn't have that kind of artifact. And if you see anything on there, that means there's DNA there.

- - - - - - - - - -

MR. SCHECK: All right. Now, let's move to the next typing of reference samples of Nicole Brown Simpson and Mr. Goldman. That was done at Cellmark on August 5th, 1994?
DR. GERDES: That's correct.

- - - - - - - - - -

MR. SCHECK: Now, was there, however--what is the significance of the faint b recorded on the polymarker system for Nicole Brown Simpson?

[...]

MR. SCHECK: All right. The b in terms of the polymarker system, is that a contaminant or an artifact?
DR. GERDES: That's a contaminant.

nolu chan  posted on  2017-07-29   17:13:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#387. To: misterwhite (#381)

Any actual evidence of cross-contamination?

Further testimony of the atrocious lab procedures of criminalist Collin Yamauchi creating an unacceptable risk of cross-contamination. When the lab is a cesspool of contamination, the evidence that comes out of it is shit.

The prosecution bears the sole burden of proof to show that its evidence is not shit.

CROSS CONTAMINATION - Scheck cross of Gary Sims of Cal. DoJ

MR. SCHECK: Right. And we agreed that in handling degraded samples, that is, the fact that samples are degraded creates a risk of cross-contamination in and of itself?
MR. SIMS: Yes. There is greater risk with those samples.
MR. SCHECK: And handling a reference sample, I am now looking at the test-tube plus one, all right?
MR. SIMS: Okay.
MR. SCHECK: --reference sample in the same area during the same period, either by pouring off sample from the--popping up the top of the tube, pouring it onto a card and in the same area during the same period, one is handling evidence samples, that kind of situation can increase of risk of cross contamination?
MR. HARMON: Objection. "period" is vague, your Honor.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MR. SIMS: Yes.
MR. SCHECK: And handling samples from a suspect and a victim at the same time can create a risk of cross-contamination of sample?
MR. SIMS: Can we clarify a little bit about suspect and victim? I think we had a had a little--
MR. SCHECK: You recall that discussion that is represented by that logo, without reviewing it all?
MR. SIMS: Yes, I think we talked about that.
MR. SCHECK: And then we talked about samples represented by that scale of samples with high DNA concentration and low DNA concentration?
MR. SIMS: Yes.
MR. SCHECK: And then we talked about samples from different crime scenes?
MR. SIMS: Yes.
MR. SCHECK: And we talked about handling many samples at the same time?
MR. SIMS: Yes.
MR. SCHECK: Now, with respect to all those different contamination factors to the right of the line, those represent in a sense situations that can raise the level of risk in terms of making an inadvertent transfer of cross-contamination?
MR. SIMS: Yes.
MR. SCHECK: Now, looking to the factors on the left-hand side--
MR. SIMS: Okay.
MR. SCHECK: --if you combine the creation of an aerosol--
THE COURT: Excuse me, counsel. This witness has never adopted your characterization of aerosol. Airborne particles perhaps; not aerosol.
MR. SCHECK: Thank you.
MR. SCHECK: Airborne articles represented by the clip art of fireworks?
MR. SIMS: I like that.
MR. SCHECK: Thank you. All right. Talking about airborne particles, all right?
MR. SIMS: Okay.
MR. SCHECK: Combining that with any of these other situations to the right of the line, that is a--sort of a mechanism of transfer that would increase the risk of cross-contamination?
MR. SIMS: Yes.
MR. SCHECK: And the paper, you recall our discussion about not changing paper?
MR. SIMS: Yes.
MR. SCHECK: If you combine not changing paper with each of those situations, that is a mechanism of transfer that can increase the risk of cross-contamination?
MR. SIMS: Yes.
MR. SCHECK: And with respect to the bunsen burner representing the cleaning of instruments, if one does not adequately clean instruments, that can be a mechanism of transfer that facilitates crosscontamination, raises the level of risk in the other situations to the right of that white line?
MR. SIMS: Yes.
MR. SCHECK: And with respect to gloves, gloves, either not changing gloves or washing gloves--
MR. SIMS: Right.
MR. SCHECK: --okay, between samples, combined with any of those other factors to the right of the line, can become a mechanism of transfer for cross-contamination?
MR. SIMS: Yes.
MR. SCHECK: Thank you.

nolu chan  posted on  2017-07-29   17:17:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#388. To: nolu chan (#387)

unacceptable risk of cross-contamination.

Meaning it might happen. Then again, it might not. Now, if it HAD happened, THAT would be significant. Did it? Ah, no.

But let's play your silly game. Say there WAS cross-contamination. What would the analysis show? Would the real killer's blood turn into OJ's DNA? Or would the sample be useless and not admissable in any court?

Seems to me any real cross- contamination would be welcomed by the defense and they would do everything in their power to present such evidence.

Alas, they couldn't. All they could do was try to confuse the jury into thinking that conjecture and speculation was the same thing as real evidence.

misterwhite  posted on  2017-07-29   18:58:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#389. To: nolu chan (#386)

Any contaminant was trace amount and had zero efect on the analysis.

misterwhite  posted on  2017-07-29   19:52:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#390. To: nolu chan (#382)

The scientific experts testified that there was a compression transfer and the blood was forced through by applied pressure with a well defined perimeter indicating that, if done by hand, it was not more than one finger that was used to apply the pressure.

Meaning it could have been done by OJ when he removed his socks.

misterwhite  posted on  2017-07-29   20:11:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#391. To: misterwhite (#381)

Any actual evidence of cross-contamination?

There was also the testimonial evidence of Dr. Henry Lee affirmatively stating the actual existence of cross-contamination.

Excerpted from my #372.

MR. SCHECK: And what is the significance of putting both socks in one envelope for--in terms of forensic procedure?

DR. LEE: Start that initial moment, you pick up the socks, put in one envelope, you already contaminate both socks. You have a cross-contamination. It's no longer its virgin state.

MR. SCHECK: Is there any significance in terms of this examination that you are not wearing a lab coat or a hair net?

DR. LEE: I wasn't provide with a lab coat nor a hair net. After I look, these both socks already put in one envelope. Doesn't matter what I wear, space suit, body armor. Still contaminated.

nolu chan  posted on  2017-07-29   22:35:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#392. To: misterwhite (#388)

Meaning it might happen. Then again, it might not. Now, if it HAD happened, THAT would be significant. Did it? Ah, no.

Both Dr. John Gerdes and Dr. Henry Lee affirmatively testified to real and actual crosss-contamination of evidence, including the reference samples of Nicole Simpson and Ron Goldman.

nolu chan  posted on  2017-07-29   22:37:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#393. To: misterwhite (#389)

Any contaminant was trace amount and had zero efect on the analysis.

And you are full of shit. Documented cross-contamination of the reference samples and the socks must affect analysis.

nolu chan  posted on  2017-07-29   22:39:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#394. To: misterwhite (#390)

The scientific experts testified that there was a compression transfer and the blood was forced through by applied pressure with a well defined perimeter indicating that, if done by hand, it was not more than one finger that was used to apply the pressure.

Meaning it could have been done by OJ when he removed his socks.

Your new theory is OJ removed his socks with one finger at the ankle?

And this cast a Klingon invisibility cloak on the socks when the videographer was there?

OP wore dress socks with sweats and threw bloody socks on the light colored carpet without leaving the slightest bit of detectable blood on the carpet.

And those magical socks were shown to have not been there at 4:13 p.m., and that is before they were collected. The straps on the bed do not lie.

Advance to 47m46s

Youtube link

47:46 - 59:38 - The magic socks, Ford video and still photos

OJ Simpson Trial - September 27th, 1995 - Part 4

OJ Trial Uncut

Published on Nov 29, 2016

**THIS HAS BEEN REPOSTED TO PROVIDE A BETTER QUALITY VIEWING CLIP.

OJ Simpson criminal trial from September 27th, 1995. (Johnnie Cochran, Raw, Uncut)

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Cochran closing argument, 27 Sept 1995, [excerpt]

Then we come to those socks. Those socks. They just don't fit. They just don't fit. They just don't fit.

Watch with me now a video. I want you to watch the time counter in this time frame, and you'll understand how important this is.

MR. DOUGLAS: 1068, your Honor.

(At 6:48 P.M., Deft's 1068, a videotape was played.)

MR. COCHRAN: Now, where it says 3:13 P.M., Mr. Willie Ford says--all right. Back it up, please. This is Mr. Willie Ford going up into the bedroom. It's 3:13 where he says it's 4:14 because it hadn't been changed. It's 4:13 P.M. on June 13th, 1994. Okay. Thank you, your Honor. You look at the foot of the bed there where the socks are supposed to be. You'll see no socks in this video. And you'll recall that Mr. Willie Ford testified about this. And I asked him, "Well, where are the socks, Mr. Ford?" "I didn't see any socks." So now, that's interesting, isn't it? At 4:13 on June 13th, 1994, these socks are supposedly recovered, these mysterious socks, these socks that no one sees any blood on until August 4th all of a sudden, these socks that are picked up that Luper says he picks them up because they look out of place. "I don't see any reason to pick them up. I'll just take these socks because they look out of place." The only items that they took out of that place on that date is Lange. Lange takes the Reebok tennis shoes, the ones that he takes home. You remember that. That's all they really take because they don't come back until the 28th before they get that one brown glove. But these socks will be their undoing. It just doesn't fit. None of you can deny there are no socks at the foot of that bed 4:13 P.M. Where then are the socks? Where are these socks, this important piece of evidence? Well, let me show you something. This board here was a board used by Dr. Henry Lee. This is interesting. Bear with me for a moment as you look at this.

THE COURT: Is this 1352?

MR. DOUGLAS: 52.

THE COURT: Thank you.

MR. COCHRAN: In this photograph here, the one on the left, your Honor, if you'll notice, the socks are at the foot of the bed. If you look close at this photograph, you'll see there's no little white card there. You notice how they put these little evidence cards there when they're going to collect something. No little white card on this photograph here. And this is interesting, because you see these straps on the bed. Now, Luper told us when he testified, these straps were like--he called them some kind of luggage straps. And these luggage straps are down at this point, aren't they? See how they're down? No evidence card and the socks are there.

We come over to this photograph here. Notice how the strap is now up on the bed? No longer hanging down anymore. It's been moved up. And Luper says that's when he looks under this bed and he sees that photograph. By the way, how wrong can they continue to be? That's no wedding photograph. That's no wedding. That's a photograph they took at some formal event. You look at that photograph and see. That's how they speculate. And most times, they've been wrong.

But this is interesting. The strap is now up on the bed. And you look at the socks. Now it's been posed for you. Here is this no. 13 out here with these socks. Now, you look back at that video, and you'll have it. You'll notice that the video has the strap down. So the video is at a time before this card was placed, before the strap is up, before this is about to be collected. Now, isn't that strange, because at 4:13, there are no socks there.

Now, how do we tie all this together? Do you remember, Fung and Mazzola have a log. And on their log, they tell when they collected things. They tell us that they collected the blood in the foyer at 4:30, that they then came upstairs, that they collect--here it is as we speak.

MR. DOUGLAS: 1091, your Honor.

THE COURT: Thank you.

MR. COCHRAN: Can you move it over a little bit, Mr. Harris? Now, you see this where they collected things sequentially and they kept this log. And I think that you'll remember the testimony that at 4:30, they collected the blood in the foyer. Remember that? Let me see if I can point that out for you. In the foyer, red stain. And there's testimony--they testified 4:30. 1630 is 4:30. This is--well, this is at least 17 minutes after Mr. Ford is up there with that camera where there are no socks, right?

So 1630, right there. They're downstairs. Then they say they go upstairs and they leave this time blank. But at 1640, they go and they look at this little red spot in the bathroom. Remember that? And they say in their testimony that the socks are collected between 1630 and 1640. So let's give them the benefit of the doubt, 1635. How could the socks be there at 4:35 when you just saw they're not there at 4:13? Who's fooling whom here? Setting this man up, and you can see it with your own eyes. You're not naive. Nobody is foolish here.

Then they forget about this little strap exercise and they're posing stuff here. They move this off the bed, move this under the bed. They're going to make a big thing about this photograph under the bed. Then they put this number down here and they take these pictures for you later. But they didn't know that we would know or find out about Mr. Ford's video. So they took that video--you know, we talked about this early on. LAPD should always take videos of everything at that crime scene. They don't do that. But they took this video not because they wanted to help Mr. Simpson. If anything was missing or got broken, this was a civil liability video. Remember, they were going around taking photographs of things that might be missing of whatever if there was ever a suit later on.

But they got hoisted by their own petard again because the video has the counter and the number. They will never, ever be able to explain that to you because we've got the testimony in black and white as when they went upstairs and collected them. Those socks from the beginning is going to bring them down. So those are the socks, these socks. No dirt, no soil, no berries, no trace.

Nobody sees any blood until August 4th. All these miraculous things start happening, and then--Mr. Scheck will talk more about this. Then we find out it has EDTA in it. Is it planted along with that back gate? How would it be on there? Why didn't they see the blood before that? There's a big fight here. Where is the dirt? Why would Mr. Simpson have on these kind of socks with a sweat outfit? Wait a minute. Now, you don't have to be like from the fashion police to know that. You don't wear those kinds of socks. You wear those kind of socks with a suit. You don't wear those kind of socks with a sweat outfit. Doesn't it make sense to you that those socks were in that hamper from Saturday night when Mr. Simpson went to that formal event? Those kind of socks is what you wear with your tuxedo when he was dressed with those other ladies.

They went and took it out of the hamper and staged it there, and you see what happened. Is that not reasonable under these facts? I think you'll agree it is. It's the only reasonable explanation. It's posed there. And the reason for doing this is because they were out of place. But isn't that interesting, in the hamper in which Luper went and they all went, they didn't take anything else? You'd think the police would ask Mr. Simpson, "What were you wearing? In addition to the suit, what were you wearing that night?" They didn't take one thing. Yet we hear all this talk about, I wonder where the clothes went, I wonder where the clothes went. You'd think Mr. Simpson, who told them everything, cooperated with them fully, told them, like he told them about those shoes, what he was wearing. They didn't bother collecting those, did they? No towels, no nothing.

She's worried about him taking this quick shower. If he took a shower, there's so much blood, he's covered with blood, why didn't they bring the towels in here? Something is wrong in this case. It just doesn't fit. When it doesn't fit, you must acquit.

So the socks-- I could talk about these socks forever, but I'm not going to do that because Mr. Scheck will talk about the forensic aspect of it. But let me just remind you of two quick more things. Dr. Herbert MacDonell came in here and he told you there was no splatter or spatter on these socks. These socks had compression transfer, and he used his hands to show you somebody took those socks and they put something on them and it went all the way through to side 3. Now, with all their experts bringing people back three, four times, they never had anybody to contravene that. How did that get over to side 3? How did it get over there? It wouldn't get there if there was a leg in the sock. Can anybody explain that? Can any of you explain that? Maybe Miss Clark can explain that. Experts can't explain it. Something is wrong.

Then finally the EDTA which indicates the anticoagulant from a purple top tube is where that blood is from. The socks, as you know, are something that you want to get emotional about because we've known about these socks for some time. This is to say the least disturbing. It's worse than that though. In my opening statement, I told you about evidence that would be compromised, contaminated and corrupted and I told you something then. I said in this case, there's something even far more sinister.

The socks are one example of that. Now, if you want to be fair deciding this case, you've got to deal with these socks. You'll get a chance to see them. Look for the dirt that you expect on them. Look for the spatter that you expect on them. Look and see why it went over to side 3. There's a leg in it. Now, isn't it interesting how you get this blood on this sock with your pants? Your pants have to be almost up. This would take a real contortion to do it. There's no way they could explain it. So let's just leave it where it is and Mr. Scheck will pick up on that. Then we've heard a lot about the so-called blood in the Bronco. ...

nolu chan  posted on  2017-07-29   23:06:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#395. To: misterwhite (#389)

How can any contaminant with a trace amount not have an effect on the analysis? How is that possible?

goldilucky  posted on  2017-07-29   23:44:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#396. To: goldilucky (#395)

How can any contaminant with a trace amount not have an effect on the analysis? How is that possible?

The results would show, for example, that the blood belonged to Nicole with a trace amount (<.0001%) of OJ's blood, possibly due to contamination.

Contamination would not turn the real killer's blood into OJ's. Degradation would not turn the real killer's blood into OJ's. Leaving blood samples in a hot car would not turn the real killer's blood into OJ's.

misterwhite  posted on  2017-07-30   9:35:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#397. To: nolu chan (#394)

And those magical socks were shown to have not been there at 4:13 p.m., and that is before they were collected.

Wrong.

Photographer Willie Ford acknowledged that his video did not show the socks on Simpson's bedroom floor, but he said police criminalists had already collected evidence before he entered the room to videotape it. Another witness called by the defense, police detective Bert Luper, testified that he saw criminalist Dennis Fung collect the socks before the photographer videotaped the room's contents.

Oh, wait. Your response is that Ford and Luper are both lying, right? Well, we'll add them to the list containing Lange, Vanatter and, of course, Fuhrman. And Fung.

misterwhite  posted on  2017-07-30   10:07:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#398. To: nolu chan (#394)

Your new theory is OJ removed his socks with one finger at the ankle?

It's not a "new" theory. It's simply a possible explanation for your new claim of "one-finger-compression". And it's more plausible than your "they planted microscopic blood evidence from Nicole on OJ's sock that nobody even saw until weeks later".

And they did this after they saw all the other blood evidence in plain sight at both locations and they figured, "Hey. What can it hurt? Let's take a chance of going to prison and add even more blood. Go back to Bundy and get some of Goldman's blood -- no, make it Nicole's blood -- then we'll smear just a little on these socks we just found."

" Wouldn't it be funny if these aren't OJ's socks and he tried them on at the trial and they did't fit?"

"Now, we're experienced crime scene detectives and know that if the socks were on, there'd only be blood on one side of the sock. But go ahead and press hard so it goes all the way through to the other side as though the blood evidence was planted."

misterwhite  posted on  2017-07-30   10:35:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#399. To: misterwhite (#396)

And what would those contaminates be composed of exactly? This "Degradation" you discuss, what is that?

goldilucky  posted on  2017-07-30   14:13:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#400. To: goldilucky (#399)

"And what would those contaminates be composed of exactly?"

In this case it's someone else's DNA (the contaminant) mixing with the DNA sample collected as evidence.

Degradation occurs when the DNA starts to break down due to time, exposure to the elements, or heat. You end up with less and less usable DNA to test. But DNA does not transform itself from one person to another.

misterwhite  posted on  2017-07-30   15:56:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#401. To: misterwhite (#400)

Degradation occurs when the DNA starts to break down due to time, exposure to the elements, or heat. You end up with less and less usable DNA to test. But DNA does not transform itself from one person to another.

So provided with this information on how this process actually works, we can actually conclude that the forensics team for the LAPD knew about "time" being that critical factor involved in this DNA breaking down due to heat, (it was in June and it was rather warm at that time but check the weather temperature for that date).

goldilucky  posted on  2017-07-30   16:53:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#402. To: goldilucky (#401)

"we can actually conclude that the forensics team for the LAPD knew about "time" being that critical factor involved in this DNA breaking down due to heat"

Sure, unless some method was used to keep the samples cool.

But keep in mind that the DNA breaking down only served to help OJ. If his DNA was at the crime scene and it degraded to the point where they couldn't tell whose blood it was, he's free and clear. But there was ten times the overall evidence needed to convict. Disregarding a few blood samples here and there would have zero effect on the case.

misterwhite  posted on  2017-07-30   19:05:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#403. To: misterwhite (#402)

But keep in mind that the DNA breaking down only served to help OJ.

That's exactly the point!

goldilucky  posted on  2017-07-30   21:12:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#404. To: goldilucky, misterwhite (#395)

[Goldilucky #395] How can any contaminant with a trace amount not have an effect on the analysis? How is that possible?

It is not possible.

A blood sample which is an admixture of two or more people cannot function as a reference sample. In a mixture you can't really tell what proportion of the mixture is truly from one contributor or another. misterwhite can do that, but a molecular biologist cannot.

Dr. John Gerdes, 3 Aug 1995

DR. GERDES: That would be the positive control and the negative controls from that particular case and any sample that was referred to as a reference sample would have been known to have come or defined to have been derived from one individual.

[...]

MR. SCHECK: Now--a known reference sample in a case would be, let's say, in a sexual assault case if they took a sample from the victim, that would be a blood sample that would be considered a known; is that right?
DR. GERDES: It is considered to have come from one individual. I wouldn't know the type--the anticipated type, but it is--I think I--it is safe to assume that that is defined to have been obtained from a single individual.
MR. SCHECK: So--
DR. GERDES: It should not be a mixture.
MR. SCHECK: So when you are looking at a DQ-Alpha strip from a reference sample in case work from a known individual, you should see no more than two alleles or two--
DR. GERDES: That's correct.
MR. SCHECK: If you see three alleles--
DR. GERDES: That is an indication that it has to be a mixture, or in this case, since it was defined as having come from one individual, if you have an indication of three there, then that has to be contamination, that has to be foreign DNA that was incorporated or somehow got into that sample.

One DNA test does not reveal the identity of anyone. It only does so by comparison to a known sample.

Det. Vannatter, Grand Jury Testimony, 22 June 1994

25 Q. NOW, THE BLOOD SAMPLE THAT WAS REMOVED FROM
26 MR. SIMPSON, WHAT DID YOU DO WITH THAT?
27 A. I PERSONALLY HAND-CARRIED THAT TO THE
28 CRIMINALIST WHO WAS WORKING ON THE CASE, DENNIS FUNG, AND

349

1 GAVE IT TO HIM TO BE BOOKED WITH THE OTHER EVIDENCE.
2 Q. AND THE BLOOD THAT WAS EXTRACTED FROM THE
3 VICTIMS DURING THE AUTOPSY PERFORMED BY DR. GOLDEN, DID YOU
4 DO SOMETHING WITH RESPECT TO THOSE BLOOD SAMPLES?
5 A. YES, I DID.
6 I PICKED THOSE UP AT THE CORONER'S OFFICE AND
7 HAND-DELIVERED THOSE TO THE SCIENTIFIC INVESTIGATION LAB
8 AND TURNED THEM OVER TO COLIN YAMAUCHI, I BELIEVE IS THE
9 WAY IT IS PRONOUNCED, WHO IS THE ANALYST WHO IS WORKING ON
10 THE CASE.

Vannatter failed to take contemporaneous notes, except for two paragraphs regarding Kato Kaelin.

Det. Vannatter testimony 20 March 1995

BY MR. SHAPIRO:

Q: DETECTIVE VANNATTER, OVER THE NOON HOUR YOU WERE REQUESTED TO FIND YOUR NOTES OF THE ACTIVITIES THAT TOOK PLACE AT BUNDY AND ROCKINGHAM ON THE 12TH THROUGH THE 13TH OF JUNE. HAVE YOU BEEN ABLE TO LOCATE THOSE NOTES?
A: I DIDN'T REALIZE I WAS SUPPOSED TO DO THAT, BUT AS FAR AS ACTUAL PHYSICAL NOTES, THERE AREN'T ANY OTHER THAN THE PARTIAL STATEMENT I WAS GOING ON, KATO KAELIN.
Q: AND THAT CONSISTS OF TWO PARAGRAPHS?
A: APPROXIMATELY, YEAH.
Q: AND THAT IS THE EXTENT OF WHAT WAS -- WHAT TOOK PLACE AS FAR AS RECORDING INFORMATION BY YOU?

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

The results would show, for example, that the blood belonged to Nicole with a trace amount (<.0001%) of OJ's blood, possibly due to contamination.

Contamination would not turn the real killer's blood into OJ's. Degradation would not turn the real killer's blood into OJ's.

That is wingnut psychobabble, unrelated to science and the expert testimony at trial.

The reference samples of Nicole Simpson and Ron Goldman showed alleles consistent with, among others, O.J. Simpson. Criminalist Andrea Mazzola also possessed those alleles. Your reference to <.0001% is a meaningless figure pulled out of your butt.

MR. SCHECK: Are the amounts of DNA on the D1S80 results there within the nanogram range between two, three, nanogram range as reflected on the DOJ typing results?
MR. CLARKE: Same objection, same grounds.
THE COURT: Overruled.
DR. GERDES: The total amount of DNA there is--I don't remember exactly the amount, but the point is that is a mixture, and in a mixture you can't really tell what proportion of the mixture is truly from one contributor or another, although the D1S80 typing result consistent with Mr. Simpson appears to be a minor contributor and that is consistent with the possibility of cross-contamination.

There was sufficient DNA for an allele that did not belong to Ron Goldman or Nicole Simpson to show up in what was supposed to be reference samples of the blood of Nicole Simpson and Ron Goldman.

Criminalist Dennis Fung, 4 April 1995, questions by prosecutor Hank Goldberg:

Q: WHO IS GREG MATHESON?
A: MR. MATHESON IS OR WAS AT THAT TIME THE SUPERVISOR OF SEROLOGY. HE IS NOW A CHIEF FORENSIC CHEMIST.
Q: AND WHAT ABOUT MR. YAMAUCHI? WHAT WAS HIS POSITION IN THE LABORATORY AT THE TIME?
A: MR. YAMAUCHI IS A CRIMINALIST ASSIGNED TO THE SEROLOGY UNIT.

Greg Matheson testimony 2 May 1995, questions by prosecutor Hank Goldberg:

MR. BLASIER: Would you believe that the suspect's reference sample in a criminal case is an extremely important piece of evidence?
MR. MATHESON: Yes, it is.
MR. BLASIER: And could you use the analogy that with a wheel? All items of evidence are compared to that, correct?
MR. MATHESON: To that and other reference samples, yes.
MR. BLASIER: And that reference sample in effect is the hub of the wheel from which everything else is looked at, correct?
MR. MATHESON: Along with other references, yes.
MR. BLASIER: And if the integrity of that reference sample is compromised in some fashion, then that would affect the validity of the analysis of other things that are compared to it, would you agree with that?
MR. GOLDBERG: Argumentative.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MR. MATHESON: Yes. If there is some problem that compromises the validity of it, then there is a concern, yes.

The LAPD violated state law by failing to immediately notify the coroner's office. The police were "warned two years ago that state law required them to notify the coroner immediately in cases of murder and certain other deaths, and Police Chief Willie L. Williams responded by issuing a tough new policy to that effect," reported the LA Times, September 17, 1994.

nolu chan  posted on  2017-08-01   3:34:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#405. To: misterwhite (#397)

And those magical socks were shown to have not been there at 4:13 p.m., and that is before they were collected.

Wrong.

Photographer Willie Ford acknowledged that his video did not show the socks on Simpson's bedroom floor, but he said police criminalists had already collected evidence before he entered the room to videotape it.

The video and photographs do not lie. The LAPD could and did.

As for Willie Ford's testimony, produce testimony with Willie Ford saying that the socks had been collected before he went to the bedroom, or that he ever knew on June 13th, 1994 when the socks were collected, or that he even knew on said date that the socks existed.

As the jury foreman wrote,

I think it might have been reasonable to suspect Mr. Simpson, based on the past history he had, but they weren't straight with us about why they chose to do what they did, and that made us suspect everything else we hard from them. That's the thing with Vannatter when he was saying O.J. was not the prime suspect. Why would he even get up there with that lie? Why didn't he just tell the truth? Don't tell me you're going to the house because you think maybe the same thing is happening over on Rockingham and you're concerned about the Rockingham family. And then the first person you send in the door is the daughter.

That is the lying LAPD. Even Judge Ito found that Vannatter swore to the search warrant affidavit with a reckless disregard for the truth.

Another witness called by the defense, police detective Bert Luper, testified that he saw criminalist Dennis Fung collect the socks before the photographer videotaped the room's contents.

Bert Luper's supposed memory of sock collection time is contradicted by the video and photographic evidence. What are you going to believe, Bert Luper or your lying eyes?

Adelbrained Luper's testimony proved beyond a reasonable doubt, and to a moral certainty, that the video was taken before the socks had been collected. It was very nice of him to be an unwitting dupe because he did not recognize the significance of his lifting up the straps.

Det. Luper first saw the socks as in the picture showing the socks hanging down.

Det. Luper moved the straps up onto the bed to look under the bed, as they are depicted in the other photo.

He looked under the bed and found a photo of O.J. and Nicole in formal attire.

After this, the socks were collected.

And before the straps were lifted up onto the bed, and before the evidence cards were placed, and before the socks were collected, the video was taken with the straps handing down.

The video was taken before Luper moved the straps.

The video was taken at 4:13 p.m., before the socks magically appeared.

The video was taken before the evidence cards were put down.

In relative time, no matter what time the video was taken, it was taken before the straps were moved.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Det. Adelberto Luper testimony, 20 July 1995

MR. COCHRAN: Okay, detective. With regard to the residence of Mr. Simpson on this occasion, you've indicated that you were upstairs in the bedroom and that you saw the condition of Mr. Simpson's bedroom, did you not, during the course of the day after you arrived there at 12:00 o'clock?
DET. LUPER: Yes, sir.
MR. COCHRAN: And I want to show you--I want to approach and I want to show you a couple of photographs.
MR. COCHRAN: One is People's 167 now in evidence, your Honor, and one is--one I'd like to mark as Defendant's next in order if the Court pleases. 12--
THE COURT: 1257.
MR. COCHRAN: 1257? I'd like to approach, your Honor.
THE COURT: Please.

(Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorney and Defense counsel.)

THE COURT: All right. Actually 1256.
MR. COCHRAN: 56? Thank you, your Honor.

(Deft's 1256 for id = photograph)

MR. COCHRAN: I'm going to approach the witness if I might, your Honor.
MR. COCHRAN: I want to show you first of all--and I'll put this on the elmo I guess--People's 167. And do you--I want you to see - have you ever seen that photograph before?
DET. LUPER: Yes, I have.
MR. COCHRAN: And do you see on the bed there there's something that looks like some kind of straps. Remember ever seeing that that day?
DET. LUPER: Yes, sir.
MR. COCHRAN: What were those straps?
DET. LUPER: Those were luggage straps or shoulder straps you'd put on luggage.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Were those seized at all?
DET. LUPER: No, sir.
MR. COCHRAN: Were those moved at all?
DET. LUPER: Yes, they were.
MR. COCHRAN: And who moved them?
DET. LUPER: I did.
MR. COCHRAN: And with regard--I want you to take a look at 1256 now. See that photograph, 1256?
DET. LUPER: Yes, sir.
MR. COCHRAN: And are the luggage straps depicted there also?
DET. LUPER: Yes, sir.
MR. COCHRAN: And they're in a different position, aren't they?
DET. LUPER: That's correct. One of them is.
MR. COCHRAN: And was that because you moved it?
DET. LUPER: That's correct, yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And you moved it prior to having the photograph taken or after the photograph was taken?
DET. LUPER: I don't understand your question.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. On this photograph here, 167, none of the straps are hanging down on the bed; is that correct?
DET. LUPER: Okay. I understand your--yes, that's correct.
MR. COCHRAN: And on the other photograph, Defendant's 1256 now, one of the straps is hanging down the bed; is that correct?
DET. LUPER: That's correct, yes.
THE COURT: Over the side of the bed.
MR. COCHRAN: Over the side of the bed. Thank you, your Honor.
MR. COCHRAN: And does that indicate that you had moved it at that point?
DET. LUPER: No. It had not been moved as of yet. This--the 3-by-5 that you are showing me was prior to me moving it, and the other one, the larger photograph, was after it was moved.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Now-
- THE COURT: Excuse me, counsel. The record should reflect that the smaller photograph that Detective Luper referred to was 1256.
MR. COCHRAN: Thank you, your Honor. 1256.
MR. COCHRAN: It appears that in 1256, the smaller photograph, something is hanging down by the side of the bed; does it not?
DET. LUPER: That's correct. Yes, sir.
MR. COCHRAN: Was that the condition you found it in?
DET. LUPER: That's the way it was found, yes, sir.
MR. COCHRAN: And you then moved it up on the bed to take a picture of it?
DET. LUPER: No. I moved it so I could look underneath the bed itself and then it was photographed.
MR. COCHRAN: I see. So you actually moved this yourself?
DET. LUPER: Yes, sir.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. And so if we want to demonstrate that for the jury, we can show how it was found and how it was moved by you; is that right?
DET. LUPER: That's correct. Yes, sir.
MR. COCHRAN: Okay. Let's look at 1256 first of all. Now, that's the photograph of Defendant's 1256. It's your testimony that you found the--this luggage strap as you described it over the side of the bed like that hanging down toward the floor; is that correct?
DET. LUPER: That's correct. Yes, sir.
MR. COCHRAN: And you then moved that luggage strap?
DET. LUPER: That's correct. Yes, sir.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. And at what time did you see the luggage strap and the condition as indicated in 1256?
DET. LUPER: 12:35, 12:40 in the afternoon.
MR. COCHRAN: And were you the first police officer to go upstairs that day?
DET. LUPER: I was the only police officer that went upstairs to my knowledge to that point. We didn't have a search warrant.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. And you came back pursuant to a search warrant?
DET. LUPER: That's correct.
MR. COCHRAN: Now, there had been other police officers in that house earlier that morning, had there not been?
DET. LUPER: I was not aware of that.
MR. COCHRAN: You weren't aware that Detective Fuhrman, Detective Lange, Detective Vannatter were in the house earlier that morning?
MR. DARDEN: Objection. Hearsay, your Honor.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MR. COCHRAN: Weren't you aware they were there earlier?
DET. LUPER: No, sir. I was not aware they were inside the house prior to that, no.
MR. COCHRAN: You didn't know that Detective Phillips was there also?
DET. LUPER: That's correct.
MR. COCHRAN: You weren't aware that four of your brethren had been there earlier that morning?
DET. LUPER: I knew they had been there--
MR. DARDEN: Asked and answered.
THE COURT: Overruled.
DET. LUPER: I knew they had been there, but I didn't know where they had been in the house if they had been in the house.

[...]

MR. COCHRAN: All right. Now, with regard to 1256, which we've now shown, you then--you then moved the luggage handles as depicted in 167; is that correct? So if we look at 167, we notice now there's no--the strap is no longer hanging over the side of the bed; is that correct?
DET. LUPER: That's correct.
MR. COCHRAN: And you say you moved that so that you could look under the bed?
DET. LUPER: Yes, sir.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

See the pictures. See the video. It's all here. See the prosecution destroyed by the proof that the video was taken before the straps were moved and, therefore, before the socks were collected.

Advance to 47m46s

Youtube link

47:46 - 59:38 - The magic socks, Ford video and still photos

OJ Simpson Trial - September 27th, 1995 - Part 4

OJ Trial Uncut

Published on Nov 29, 2016

**THIS HAS BEEN REPOSTED TO PROVIDE A BETTER QUALITY VIEWING CLIP.

OJ Simpson criminal trial from September 27th, 1995. (Johnnie Cochran, Raw, Uncut)

nolu chan  posted on  2017-08-01   3:42:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#406. To: misterwhite (#398)

And it's more plausible than your "they planted microscopic blood evidence from Nicole on OJ's sock that nobody even saw until weeks later".

Nobody has a theory of planting "microscopic blood evidence from Nicole on OJ's sock" but you. Since when is a 1 by 1½ inch ankle stain become microscopic? Dr. Henry Lee and the jurors eyeballed it court.

Stop making things up. It makes you look stupid and desperate, and bores me.

Professor Herbert MacDonnell testified, 31 July 1995,

MS. CLARK: Okay. And what was the size of the stain that you measured on the ankle bone of the sock, the ankle bone area of the sock?
PROF. MACDONELL: There was no specific drop or circle. It was smeared in a sense. That's why it was not uniform in its density. The overall size was about one by one and a half inches.

Dr. Henry Lee testified,

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Now, is it possible, doctor, in your judgment that in the process of taking off the socks, if one was cut and they deposited some of their blood on the toe of the sock and they turned the upper part of the sock inside out, that the toe could come into contact with wall 3, which is now inside out?
DR. LEE: Any type of transfer has--in this situation has to be wet. Still in liquid stage, only have minute transfer. It's not a large amount of blood or blood drop on it. It's little, tiny bead. So I can not rule out say possibilities.

Surface 3 on the inside of the second sock had a tiny stain that resulted from a compression transfer from Surface 2. Surface 1 had a large 1 by 1½ inch ankle stain that Dr. Lee and the jury saw with their eyeballs. The significance of the tiny red balls on surface three is that there could not have been a foot in the sock at the time of transfer, and it was a compression transfer in a liquid state.

On 29 June 1995, the socks were inspected by LAPD Lab Director Michelle Kestler, Greg Matheson, Supervisor of Serology, and criminalist Collin Yanauchi, and they issued a report that said, "DRESS SOCKS; BLOOD SEARCH (NONE OBVIOUS)."

Dr. Henry Lee demonstrated that the stain was large and very visible. The jury had no difficulty seeing it as the socks were observed by them.

As Dr. Lee testified,

MR. SCHECK: Now, it's not depicted on this board, but another photograph has been shown in this courtroom of you holding socks up to a light for examination.
DR. LEE: Yes.
MR. SCHECK: Can you explain why you were doing that?
DR. LEE: This is simple basic technique which we use which we call back lighting. You have fabric material, any stain on it, if you lift it up, look, the light shine from the back, it's easily--quickly you can identify potential stain. That's the first, you know, basic technique we instruct student to do.
MR. SCHECK: And incidentally, given the bloodstains that were eventually identified in the sock, if in earlier examination, the criminalist had picked up one of these socks and looked up into the light, would they have been able to visualize a bloodstain if it were there?
MR. GOLDBERG: Argumentative, assumes facts not in evidence.
THE COURT: Overruled. Overruled.
DR. LEE: In theory, should be able to see that. When I pick up the socks, I can see all the stain.

And,

MR. SCHECK: Dr. Lee, let's assume that a bloodstain was deposited on the sock and then 10, 15 minutes later, some--during that 10-, 15-minute period, someone was sweating in the socks and then the socks were taken off. Could that result--could that be a mechanism or manner of transfer that would be consistent with your observations here?
MR. GOLDBERG: No foundation.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MR. GOLDBERG: Also calls for speculation, conjecture.
THE COURT: Overruled.
DR. LEE: The bloodstain on the surface still in an intact shape, if a bloodstain dissolves, say, the socks with a lot of sweat should become a diffused pattern. But again, I can not rule out any possibility. May be possible, but unlikely.

And,

DR. LEE: Surface 1, in order to have that, that is my interpretation now, okay? In order to have somebody touch somebody else socks, the pants and the shoes have to have a separation to expose the surface. The best example I can give to you, have to wear the pants like Michael Jackson. Certain portion of socks have to expose. If I wear my pants and socks like that, if touch, have to touch my pants, not going to be the socks, so that is one condition. The second condition the blood has to be liquid, not coagulate, not dry, has to be in liquid state. Third thing has to have certain pressure. I don't--I cannot tell you how much pressure. Not just a gentle touch.
MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Well, having said all that, if the pants are pulled up--
DR. LEE: Yes, sir.
MR. GOLDBERG: --or if someone is bent over or however it happens, the sock is exposed and someone didn't grab the socks, but touched the sock with a bloody finger, wet bloody finger--
DR. LEE: Has to be single finger.
MR. GOLDBERG: Single finger?
DR. LEE: Yes.

And,

MR. GOLDBERG: Is packaging the socks together the way that I just described going to change the DNA type on the socks that was deposited there?
DR. LEE: I cannot say specifically will relate to this case, but if a case, for example, a simple example, let's say ABO typing, the victim is type A, the decedent is type B. If have a transfer, our reading going to be type AB, a mixture. What AB means could be an AB type. There are people AB type. There could be a mixture of a and B. In other words, the interpretation gets so complicated now. Sometime possible to resolve; other times just impossible. You just call it could be a mixture.
MR. GOLDBERG: All right. Let me make the hypothetical a little bit more specific then. Let's say that in our hypothetical we have a 15-probe RFLP match--
DR. LEE: Uh-huh.
MR. GOLDBERG: --on one of the stains on our hypothetical socks that were packaged together at the time they were collected.
DR. LEE: Yes, right.
MR. GOLDBERG: Does packaging at the time that they were collected change the DNA type?
DR. LEE: In theory shouldn't; however, if let's say hypothetical because a lot of impossible, let's say just happen, I have to look at the band, I have a homozygote or heterozygote--let's call the band a heterozygote, two bands instead of one, it is remote, almost remote, but do have a possibility two individual, each one have one band mixed together become two bands.

Yamauchi, 31 May 1995

MR. HARMON: On June 29th, when you are in Michele's office looking at the socks, was a stereomicroscope used?
MR. YAMAUCHI: No.
MR. HARMON: Was there any sort of alternative light source used?
MR. YAMAUCHI: No.
MR. HARMON: Okay. Was there anything else, other than the naked eye, used to scan those socks?
MR. YAMAUCHI: No. We just visually looked at them.
MR. HARMON: Okay. It is true, is it not, that you saw no--
MR. SCHECK: Objection, leading, the form of that question.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. HARMON: Is it true that you saw no apparent stained or discolored areas on the socks on that day?
MR. SCHECK: Objection, leading.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. HARMON: Did you see any discolored areas on the socks on June 29th?
MR. YAMAUCHI: We didn't look at it that well to note anything.
THE COURT: Mr. Yamauchi, the question was what did you see?
MR. YAMAUCHI: No.

Three LAPD scientists gather together and examine a pair of socks with a 1 by 1½ inch stain at the ankle. They do not look well enough to note anything. They say they did not see the stain. The jury can see the stain without a magnifying glass. With a horsecrap story like that, one cannot expect the jury to believe it.

Very little of the mountain of manure came with an RFLP result.

As juror Marsha Rubin-Jackson observed about the blood drops,

But by them being so degraded they could have been there before. Prior to the murders. He visited that place often. See, the first blood they found was the blood that was on the gate, two, three days later, or two weeks later. Samples 47, 48, 49, 50, 52 were all degraded. It could have been there prior to the murders."

Juror Carrie Bess observed about the blood evidence,

Most of it you couldn't read. The part of it that they really read, which I think were samples 50 and 52 coming out the back gate, was the only drops that they really, really could say was O.J.'s and the one that was on the fence that had EDTA in it.

That is the supposed mountain of evidence. A couple of blood drops with EDTA in them, collected long after the fact. But those drops collected after being out in the weather for weeks or months were so good on DNA that it set off bullshit detectors.

Juror Sonya Hamlin observed,

Another episode that changed my mind was basically the picking up of the evidence weeks later and when they tested it, the results were so much different—the DNA content being so much different than the original drops were.

The verdict was unanimous, and the mountain of manure was not believable.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

And they did this after they saw all the other blood evidence in plain sight at both locations and they figured, "Hey. What can it hurt?

They did this after they realized that they had cooked all the blood evidence from the 13th in the truck for eight hours unrefrigerated, and then left it on a counter overnight at room temperature, still in plastic bags, and then realized that the evidence was so degraded they could not get RFLP results.

Of course, in violation of state law, they kept the coroner away for about 10 hours, as the DNA in the bodies degraded.

There were spots of somebody's blood on Nicole's back. Lange did not instruct the coroners to collect it. They didn't. When the body was washed, the evidence went down the drain.

Lange and Vannatter observed the autopsies. They sat mute and watched the gastric contents get thrown away. Then the prosecution tried to use the bark of a dog to set the time of death.

Wouldn't it be funny if these aren't OJ's socks and he tried them on at the trial and they did't fit?

It would have been funnier if O.J. had tried on a pair of European size 46 shoes and they were too short and too narrow.

Now, we're experienced crime scene detectives and know that if the socks were on, there'd only be blood on one side of the sock. But go ahead and press hard so it goes all the way through to the other side as though the blood evidence was planted.

Nobody has accused Dumb and Dumbr of being to bright. Vanatter lied on the search warrant affidavit, and he lied when he told the jury O.J. was not a suspect, and he lied when he said they were afraid a homicidal killer might have been in the house. And a separate evidence planting case involving Mark Fuhrman was settled for $100.000 during the O.J. trial.

The defense lawyers caught the LAPD witnesses testlying time and again. By the end of the trial, they had credibility only with the willfully deaf and blind.

nolu chan  posted on  2017-08-01   3:52:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#407. To: nolu chan (#406)

Since when is a 1 by 1½ inch ankle stain become microscopic? Dr. Henry Lee and the jurors eyeballed it court.

On 29 June 1995, the socks were inspected by LAPD Lab Director Michelle Kestler, Greg Matheson, Supervisor of Serology, and criminalist Collin Yanauchi, and they issued a report that said, "DRESS SOCKS; BLOOD SEARCH (NONE OBVIOUS)."

Oh, wait. They're lying. Add them to the list.

misterwhite  posted on  2017-08-01   8:12:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#408. To: misterwhite (#407)

Since when is a 1 by 1½ inch ankle stain become microscopic? Dr. Henry Lee and the jurors eyeballed it court.

On 29 June 1995 (sic 1994) socks were inspected by LAPD Lab Director Michelle Kestler, Greg Matheson, Supervisor of Serology, and criminalist Collin Ya[m]auchi, and they issued a report that said, "DRESS SOCKS; BLOOD SEARCH (NONE OBVIOUS)."

Oh, wait. They're lying. Add them to the list.

Oh shucks, you let my error slide. Yamauchi testified about the meeting in May 1995. The meeting where they saw no stain was in June 1994, a little over two weeks after the murders.

Nobody has accused them of lying about seeing no stain observable on June 29, 1994. Take them off your list.

The EDTA blood stain was not there yet on 29 June 1994. The 1 by 1½ inch bloody EDTA ankle stain on the socks was not discovered until August 4, 1994, almost two months after the murders, and after numerous examinations by criminalists.

Dr. Henry Lee demonstrated that the stain was large and very visible. The jury had no difficulty seeing it as the socks were observed by them.

As Dr. Lee testified,

MR. SCHECK: Now, it's not depicted on this board, but another photograph has been shown in this courtroom of you holding socks up to a light for examination.
DR. LEE: Yes.
MR. SCHECK: Can you explain why you were doing that?
DR. LEE: This is simple basic technique which we use which we call back lighting. You have fabric material, any stain on it, if you lift it up, look, the light shine from the back, it's easily--quickly you can identify potential stain. That's the first, you know, basic technique we instruct student to do.
MR. SCHECK: And incidentally, given the bloodstains that were eventually identified in the sock, if in earlier examination, the criminalist had picked up one of these socks and looked up into the light, would they have been able to visualize a bloodstain if it were there?
MR. GOLDBERG: Argumentative, assumes facts not in evidence.
THE COURT: Overruled. Overruled.
DR. LEE: In theory, should be able to see that. When I pick up the socks, I can see all the stain.

Prosecutor Rock Harmon, to the Court, 3 February 1995,

The question posed was not whether EDTA was there – but rather whether did the blood come from a tube with EDTA in it, Harmon said.

It took time to get an EDTA blood stain on the socks. Indeed, the socks were collected on 13 June 1994 before the O.J. blood sample had been hand delivered to Dennis Fung.

If EDTA were a natural phenomenon in circulating human blood, it should have been found in all blood evidence that claimed O.J. Simpson as a donor — every drop. Even where DNA degrades, EDTA is persistent.

THERE'S EITHER GOING TO BE EDTA THERE OR THERE'S NOT GOING TO BE EDTA THERE. AND WE'RE WILLING TO ACCEPT THE OUTCOME, WHATEVER THAT IS. ONE CAN ONLY IMAGINE THE ONLY REASON THAT THE DEFENSE MIGHT NOT WANT TO JOIN IN MUTUALLY AGREEING ON THIS IS BECAUSE THEY ALREADY KNOW THERE'S NO EDTA THERE AND THEY ALREADY KNOW HOW THAT BLOOD GOT THERE. WE AGREE TO ACCEPT THOSE RESULTS IN ADVANCE.

When the tests showed the presence of EDTA in blood evidence re O.J., excuse making began with claims that everybody's blood may have EDTA in it.

As juror Carrie Bess observed,

They said everybody's blood may have EDTA in it. How come they didn't find EDTA in Mr. Simpson's blood that they had collected for other samples?

http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S0100-40422003000600020

EDTA: the chelating agent under environmental scrutiny

ABSTRACT

The chelating agent EDTA (ethylenediaminetetraacetic acid) is a compound of massive use world wide with household and industrial applications, being one of the anthropogenic compounds with highest concentrations in inland European waters. In this review, the applications of EDTA and its behavior once it has been released into the environment are described. At a laboratory scale, degradation of EDTA has been achieved; however, in natural environments studies detect poor biodegradability. It is concluded that EDTA behaves as a persistent substance in the environment and that its contribution to heavy metals bioavailability and remobilization processes in the environment is a major concern.

nolu chan  posted on  2017-08-02   14:17:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#409. To: nolu chan (#408)

How come they didn't find EDTA in Mr. Simpson's blood that they had collected for other samples?

Because they didn't test for it?

misterwhite  posted on  2017-08-02   14:25:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#410. To: misterwhite, A K A Stone (#408)

THE "BRUNO MAGLI" SHOES

Bodziak, criminal trial, 19 Jun 1995

a 46 falls between the 11 and a half and 12.

- - - - - - - - - -

MR. BODZIAK: Okay. The--this is the--this is the compression molded sole and I received a left and right for size 42, 43, 44, 45, 46 and 47. The company refers to it as their U2887 mold and that is molded in the back of it, as well as the European size. The European size is on this sole because it is made in Italy, which is of course Europe, and so that is the sizing system that they would typically put on their molds and their soles when they make it. This is the same size sole. This one is a 47, which was on one of the prior displays, and shows the different design elements and the different aspects of this shoe design.
MR. GOLDBERG: Okay.
MR. BODZIAK: For instance, this is a size 42 and there is quite a bit of difference between the 42 and the 46, and it is that reason that I did not ask for the 38, 39, 40 and 41, because they were literally tiny compared to the larger impressions that we had.
MR. GOLDBERG: Now-
­ THE COURT: Mr. Bodziak, may I see one of those, please?
MR. BODZIAK: Yes, your Honor.
THE COURT: Thank you.
MR. GOLDBERG: Thank you.
MR. GOLDBERG: Did you, on January the 23rd of 1995, actually go to Italy to visit the Silga factory and the 4C factory?
MR. BODZIAK: Yes, I did.
MR. GOLDBERG: And which facility did you go to first?
MR. BODZIAK: I went to the Silga factory first where they actually have the molds and through a compression molding process manufacture the--what I call the outsole or the sole unit of the shoe.

- - - - - - - - - -

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, sir, showing you this diagram—excuse me--this series of photographs and the top part that says "Silga, factory A, B and C," using those photographs can you describe for us what you saw when you were observing the manufacturing process of the Silga sole?
MR. BODZIAK: Okay. I would like to point to a few things if I might.
MR. GOLDBERG: Sure.
MR. BODZIAK: The top three pictures are pictures that I took at the Silga factory in Italy. On the left it shows a bottom and top of a compression mold. The point I'm pointing to, which is to the right or actually in the center of the photograph, is the bottom of the mold and that is the part of the mold which would have the pattern and design and also the logo that says "Bruno Magli" in it. And to the left in the southwest corner of this photograph is the upper, and that would be the portion which puts the design in the back of the sole, sort of a honeycomb design. And just to the right of it, (Indicating), a couple of soles which happened to be there at the time, and this is known as compression molding or an open mold process, because like a waffle iron, they will put the pre-measured rubber in this mold cavity with this portion over top of it and they will mold it. It will melt and conform each time to the exact size and shape features and come out of the mold the same size and shape each time. In the photograph marked B at the top is a close-up showing the heel cavity of one of these molds, and in particular showing the word "Made in Italy" which I previously pointed to on the outsole, which are just in front of the heel. And also there is an oval area and removed-­that is normally where the name goes, Bruno Magli, but the slug which is removed is sitting next to that mold and this was the purpose of taking this picture, was to show that this can be removed. The factory has another set of slugs which have the name lord, l-o-r-d, on them and that was the name on the shoe that the national police agency in Japan had identified as part of their reference collection from Europe. There is a little circular area between the heel and the oval area, and this--at this point it is blank, but if these shoe soles were made in Europe, the European size, such as 42, 46, 47, would go there if they desired to have them on the bottoms. There was one other name that they did have that went into this area, I can never remember how to spell it, but it is a-n-t-i-c-a, and I believe the last name is c-o-u-r-i-c-i-a or c-a, and it basically means tradition of fine shoe making in Italian, I'm told, and it was only for the display shoes, they had never sold a shoe with that name on it. And they only had a couple of those slugs. They didn't have them for every mold. On the right under C on the chart, (Indicating), is a compression molding oven, and once the biscuit of rubber has been put in the cavity of the mold and this top has come down and placed on top of it, it will then be pushed into this oven and the oven will close and under heat and pressure it will cause the melting of that biscuit of rubber and the resultant rubber sole in the same size and shape each time. I obtained a pair of these size 46 soles and hand carried them to the Silga factory—I'm sorry--the 4C factory.
MR. GOLDBERG: Hold on for a second. I had a couple of questions I wanted to ask about the Silga.
MR. BODZIAK: Sure.
MR. GOLDBERG: When you were at Silga did you look at only one mold or a variety of the molds?
MR. BODZIAK: I examined all of the molds from size 38 to 47.
MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Then when you left Silga what did you have with you?
MR. BODZIAK: I had a pair of size 46 left and right soles.
MR. GOLDBERG: And where did you go with those?
MR. BODZIAK: I then went to the 4C factory, which was a few miles down the road, and that is the factory which Bruno Magli had commissioned to make the upper of their shoes and glue those uppers to the molded soles. Picture number D shows in the background, slightly out of focus, a shoe that is being--the glue is being applied to, and in the foreground in the center of the photograph, the outsole, which is having some glue applied to it. This glue is applied, it is allowed to cure and then before the two are put together, it is reactivated with heat to give sort of a contact cement arrangement. In photograph E the person there is taking an upper of the shoe and right next to his thumb is a little bit of green that you can see and that is part of the last that was used that had the upper of the shoe stitched around.

Bodziak testimony in criminal trial, 19 June 1995

MR. GOLDBERG: Did you make any effort to assist law enforcement in trying to locate someone that might have sold the shoe to the Defendant, a Bruno Magli shoe?
MR. BODZIAK: Yes, I did.
MR. GOLDBERG: What did you do in terms of that?
MR. BODZIAK: Initially I obtained the distribution records from Mr. Peter Grueterich, who is the owner of the Bruno Magli store in New Jersey that distributed the shoes in this case, and that listed all of the shoes in size 12 and 13 which were sent out or distributed in 1991 and 1992. The reason included size 13 was this request was made before I ever had any samples of the soles from Silga, and I was just, as I had mentioned earlier, making that general specific determination of shoe size, just with the measurement, whereas later on I would have only needed to ask him about the size 12. But I went and requested those and I also requested a list of 40 locations in the United States and Puerto Rico which sold these shoes, and I provided that information, along with photographs of the Bruno Magli shoes which he had sent me, and provided them to the Los Angeles Police Department and to the FBI office in Los Angeles for the purposes of looking for sales records at those stores of those shoes.
MR. GOLDBERG: To your knowledge was a salesperson located who could recall having sold a Bruno Magli shoe of either the Lorenzo or Lyon type to the Defendant?
MR. BODZIAK: No. To the best of my knowledge that was never done, because every store had a problem searching their records back that far.
MR. GOLDBERG: And to your knowledge was any determination made whether or not these shoes were given to the Defendant as a gift?
MR. BODZIAK: That is a possibility.

The Bruno Magli shoes played no big role in the criminal trial as the FBI visited every store in the United States that sold them, all 40 of them, and nobody had any record of O.J. Simpson ever purchasing a pair of them, nor did anybody recall selling any Bruno Magli shoes to him, and the photographic evidence of O.J. wearing a Bruno Magli shoe was not developed until about a year after the criminal trial ended. At this time it may be conceded that O.J. Simpson owned and wore a Bruno Magli shoe, style Lorenzo.

What is questionable is scientific proof of a Bruno Magli shoeprint at the Bundy crime scene.

Bruno Magli is a designer of the Lorenzo shoe, not a manufacturer. The company was then headquartered in Italy; it is now in New York City. The manufacturing is still in Italy. The evidence at the Bundy crime scene was of a Silga sole, European size 46, which approximately measures out between an American 11½ and 12.

A company called 4C manufactured the uppers. There was no evidence at the crime scene of what uppers were attached to the soles.

An Italian company called Silga Gomma SRL manufactured the soles. Silga owned the molds.

The specific sole involved was a Silga U-2887, European size 46. The shoeprint at the scene does not identify what the sole was attached to, whether a Bruno Magli Lorenzo or Lyon, or some totally different style by one of multiple other manufacturers.

Some additional information was shed on the matter when Special Agent Bodziak published the Second Edition of his book, Footwear Impression Evidence in 1999. On page 446, Bodziak referenced, "approximately 20 shoe companies who had made shoes with those soles." It was not just Bruno Magli and 4C who manufactured shoes with that Silga sole, but 20 additional shoe companies.

Regarding the testimony,

There was one other name that they did have that went into this area, I can never remember how to spell it, but it is a-n-t-i-c-a, and I believe the last name is c-o-u-r-i-c-i-a or c-a, and it basically means tradition of fine shoe making in Italian, I'm told, and it was only for the display shoes, they had never sold a shoe with that name on it.

Well, Bruno Magli would not sell a shoe with the name Antica Couieria, would they? That's would be like Nike selling a shoe with the name Adidas or Reebok.

An FBI expert using the terminology "basically means tradition of fine shoe making in Italian, I'm told," set off my bullshit detector. Surely, the FBI has the wherewithal to give a more precise translation than that, and not as mere hearsay. At a glance, I did not see anything that could translate as shoe making. And really, the FBI Special Agent who traveled the world to gain this knowledge could not bring the correct name with him for his testimony? It was not couricia, but cuoieria.

Bodziak's rough translation may as well have been Bodziak's momma wears combat boots.

Bodziak's book on page 444 informs us that,

It is common for manufacturers to create molds for shoe soles, which have interchangeable name or logo plates. This allows the manufacturer to use the same molds for more than one customer, by using more than one name in the mold. The interchangeable name plates can be any shape, but they are most commonly oval or rectangular. This was the case with the U2887 soles samples. When I received the samples from SILGA, I noticed there was an oval shape in the arch area of the sole where the brand name would appear. One of the molds, shown in Figure 15.10 with the oval slug bearing the name Bruno Magli resting on it, depicts how those slugs are changed. The sole samples I received shared three different names. One of these, of course, was the Bruno Magli name. The other soles contained either the name LORD, or the Italian words, ANTICA CUOIERIA. ANTICA CUOIERIA is not a brand name, but when translated mean something like "maker of fine footwear". The interchangeable inserts having the words ANTICA CUOIERIA were only produced for one mold size, since they were only used for samples. The name LORD, however, was a name used on other soles molded and sold by SILGA. I believed it was important to determine if there was a possibility that this same sole design, possessing the name LORD, was being sold in the U.S. These names, located just in front of the raised heel, are held off the ground and do not record in an impression on a hard surface. None of the Bundy impressions revealed any impression from this area of the shoe. This meant that, based upon the information provided by the crime scene impressions, the soles (and shoes) could not be limited to only those bearing the Bruno Magli name, but could have been made by shoes having the LORD name, if any of the LORD shoes had been sold in the U.S.

Here, 'ANTICA CUOIERIA is not a brand name, but when translated means something like "maker of fine footwear".'

Here the precise scientific translation, after another four years of pondering it, is "something like 'maker of fine footwear'."

No, it is not something like maker of fine footwear either.

ANTICA is not too difficult. Aside from its relationship to antique, in context it could translate to "time honored" or "old fashioned."

CUOIERIA translates as a leather goods shop. Antica Quoieria may be translated as time honored leather goods shop, or perhaps, Ye Olde Leather Goods Shoppe.

As to ANTICA CUOIERIA not being a brand name, let me help a brother out,

http://www.anticacuoieriafirenze.it/en/about-us.html

90% of our products is of own production: we work with well-known brands, the classic one, Antica Cuoieria, which gave the shop its name, and the trendy one, Canto de’ Ricci, in which quality is enriched with fashion.

ANTICA CUOIERIA is a classic shoe brand in Italy.

https://www.valentinacalzaturefirenze.com/en/7_antica-cuoieria

"made in Italy by Italian shoe brand Antica Cuoieria, spring summer 2017 Light laced shoes for men, with woven leather."

https://www.amazon.it/Scarpe-borse-ANTICA-CUOIERIA/s?ie=UTF8&page=1&rh=n%3A524006031%2Cp_4%3AANTICA%20CUOIERIA

They are on AMAZON IT.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/250-NEW-ANTICA-CUOIERIA-SHOES-HANDMADE-ITALY-SZ11-/350293788875

Get 'em on eBay.

$250 NEW ANTICA CUOIERIA SHOES HANDMADE ITALY SZ11
Brand: ANTICA CUOIERIA

Shop Antica Cuoieria in Florence.

https://www.yelp.com/biz/antica-cuoieria-firenze

- - - - - - - - - -

based upon the information provided by the crime scene impressions, the soles (and shoes) could not be limited to only those bearing the Bruno Magli name, but could have been made by shoes having the LORD name, if any of the LORD shoes had been sold in the U.S.

This is a strange qualification for an FBI Special Agent to make. Why would the killer's shoes have had to be bought in the U.S.? How about Antiqa Quoieria shoes? Were those sold in the U.S. prior to the murders?

What if shoes with a size 46 Silga U2887 sole, had been purchased in Cabo San Lucas in Mexico, or anywhere else in the world, by the killer or by someone who gave them to the killer? What if shoes with such a sole had been mail ordered from anywhere in the world?

At page 434, Bodziak states, "The soles were manufactured in Civitinova (sic) Marche, Italy, by the SILGA company...." That shoud be Civitanova Marche.

The U2887 soles went to approximately 20 manufacturers in addition to C4 for Bruno Magli. All the Bruno Magli uppers were attached to the Silga soles at C4 in Civita Marche. However, Silga U2887 soles were attached to non-Bruno Magli by about 20 other shoe manufacturers.

Circular logic holds that,

(1) the size 46 Silga U2887 sole belonged to O.J. because he was the killer, and the sole therefore must have been attached to a Bruno Magli upper, and

(2) O.J. is proven to be the killer because a size 46 Silga U2887 sole was at the Bundy crime scene.

In order to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that the U2887 shoeprint was put there by a shoe belonging to O.J., without the shoe, one needs to assume that O.J. was at the crime scene.

The heel and partial sole print cannot prove the make or style of the shoe. Absent the shoes, this is not a case of matching the print to the actual sole.

If O.J. were the killer, he could have left the shoeprint with his Bruno Magli shoes. Also, the killer could have left that shoeprint wearing that sole as used in shoe manufacture by 20 additional shoe companies.

Of course, at the criminal trial, the prosecution was unable to show that O.J. Simpson had ever owned or wore Bruno Magli shoes.

As juror Carrie Bess said,

During the time the blood was found at Bundy, it was looking strong against O.J. This was Bruno Magli shoes and the hair and all of these things. This was looking terrible for O.J. But then this is when another change came. They turn around and bring in a guy from New York or Chicago where O.J. was supposed to have purchased some shoes. They didn't really go anywhere with that shoe deal. That guy had the shoe prints, but they couldn't do anything with them. It was like that all the way.

The prosecution showed that there was a shoeprint of a Silga U2887 European size 46 sole that was sold to Bruno Magli and 20 other shoe companies.

nolu chan  posted on  2017-08-02   15:00:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#411. To: nolu chan (#410)

So you concede he owned those size 12 Bruno Magli shoes which could have made those bloody footprints.

misterwhite  posted on  2017-08-02   15:44:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#412. To: misterwhite (#411)

So you concede he owned those size 12 Bruno Magli shoes which could have made those bloody footprints.

The Scull photographs appear conclusive that O.J. wore a pair of Bruno Magli shoes, style Lorenzo.

The soles that produced the shoeprints at Bundy were European size 46, not American size 12. If sold in the U.S. under Bruno Magli brand, they may have had an American size 12 upper, built on an American size 12 last, at 4C. The Silga U2887 soles were not unique to Bruno Magli shoes. The same model soles, produced from the same mold by Silga, would be consistent with shoes from another 20 shoe companies.

The topic we have been on is not whether O.J. did it, but whether the prosecution in the O.J. criminal trial provided sufficient proof of his guilt to warrant a guilty verdict. Having been acquired in the course of the civil trial, a year after the criminal trial, the photos are a nothing burger in relation to the criminal trial.

The photos do indicate that O.J. lied about not wearing those ugly ass shoes.

nolu chan  posted on  2017-08-03   17:06:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#413. To: nolu chan (#412)

Where are the shoes that he was wearing in the photo nine months prior to the murder?

misterwhite  posted on  2017-08-03   17:12:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#414. To: misterwhite (#409)

[Juror Carrie Bess] How come they didn't find EDTA in Mr. Simpson's blood that they had collected for other samples?

Because they didn't test for it?

Another juror asked in deliberations,

Why was there EDTA in the blood on the fence and why wasn't there EDTA in the blood trails at Bundy?

The state lost all credibility on maintaining evidence integrity. Evidence was mishandled and contaminated.

It was a lose-lose situation. Had they found more Q samples with EDTA, that would have been hard to explain. Had they found no more Q samples with EDTA, that would leave the known EDTA samples difficult to explain. And the jury proved that the problem did not go away by itself.

The prosecution failed to carry its burden of showing that the collected and presented evidence was trustworthy.

nolu chan  posted on  2017-08-03   17:37:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#415. To: misterwhite (#413)

Where are the shoes that he was wearing in the photo nine months prior to the murder?

The Scull photo from 26 Sep 1993 shows black Bruno Magli Lorenzo uppers with Silga U2887 soles. The Flammer photos were taken on the same date and onne of those was published in the November 1993 Buffalo Bills Report in black and white. Because of the foot positioning, the Scull photo shows enough of the sole to identify it as a Silga U2887.

The sole could be a match for Bundy, but that is not proven.

The sole at Bundy was a European size 46 Silga U2887 sole which was sold to Bruno Magli and 20 other shoe companies. The upper cannot be identified from the shoeprint, actually a heel print and partial sole print.

nolu chan  posted on  2017-08-03   17:58:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#416. To: nolu chan (#404) (Edited)

A blood sample which is an admixture of two or more people cannot function as a reference sample. In a mixture you can't really tell what proportion of the mixture is truly from one contributor or another. misterwhite can do that, but a molecular biologist cannot.

If the blood sample was performed by a member of the forensics team working for the LAPD, then they as well as the LAPD violated state law.

referring to post 107 where misterwhite mentioned in part the following:

On 29 June 1995, the socks were inspected by LAPD Lab Director Michelle Kestler, Greg Matheson, Supervisor of Serology, and criminalist Collin Yanauchi, and they issued a report that said, "DRESS SOCKS; BLOOD SEARCH (NONE OBVIOUS)."

This is about the only part that I would agree on.

The LAPD violated state law by failing to immediately notify the coroner's office. The police were "warned two years ago that state law required them to notify the coroner immediately in cases of murder and certain other deaths, and Police Chief Willie L. Williams responded by issuing a tough new policy to that effect," reported the LA Times, September 17, 1994.

goldilucky  posted on  2017-08-03   20:19:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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