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Title: Some more bullshit Willie Posted
Source: The Independent (UK)
URL Source: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w ... -president-elect-a7412621.html
Published: Nov 11, 2016
Author: Andrew Griffin
Post Date: 2016-11-11 16:06:24 by Willie Green
Keywords: None
Views: 18594
Comments: 52

Getting rid of the healthcare plan was among billionaire businessman's biggest campaign promises

Donald Trump has said that he might not repeal Obamacare, perhaps his biggest campaign promise.

The President-elect performed the apparent U-turn after his meeting with Barack Obama at the White House this week, he has said.

Mr Trump is going to look at "amending" the policy, rather than completely repealing it, he told the Wall Street Journal.

After the meeting at the White House, Mr Trump said that he and Mr Obama had discussed "some of the difficulties" the country faced but also "some of the really great things that have been achieved". Some took that latter remark as a reference to Obamacare and perhaps other policies, and a potential suggestion that Mr Trump may be won around on what has become one of Barack Obama's flagship policies but also one hated by much of the Republican party.

Mr Obama also said he was "encouraged" by Mr Trump's willingness to work with his team, telling him: "We want to do everything we can to help you succeed because if you succeed the country succeeds".

The tense meeting was far more respectful than the exchanges between the two during the presidential campaign, during which Mr Obama called Mr Trump unfit to be president, and Mr Trump said Mr Obama was "the founder of Isis".

Mr Trump said after he spoke with congressional leaders, shortly after his first meeting with Mr Obama, that healthcare would be among his top priorities in office.

“We're going to move very strongly on immigration. We will move very strongly on healthcare. And we're looking at jobs. Big league jobs,” he told the press.


Poster Comment:

Good grief... that deluded stooge is in so deep over his head he has absolutely no idea what he's flapping his yap about from one minute to the next.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 39.

#1. To: Willie Green (#0)

Mr Trump is going to look at "amending" the policy, rather than completely repealing it, he told the Wall Street Journal.

Then quote the WSJ and not some flapping UK rag.......You got a quote from the WSJ?

civilwarbuff  posted on  2016-11-11   16:28:33 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: civilwarbuff (#1)

Is FOX News pure enough for your sensitivities?

President-elect Trump willing to keep parts of ObamaCare

Willie Green  posted on  2016-11-11   16:39:21 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Willie Green (#2)

Keeping parts of it is not the same as "not repealing" wouldn't you agree? Borrowing the few good ideas it has is not a bad thing at all......

civilwarbuff  posted on  2016-11-11   16:46:10 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: civilwarbuff (#3)

Keeping parts of it is not the same as "not repealing" wouldn't you agree? Borrowing the few good ideas it has is not a bad thing at all......

Correct. For example, the part of the AHA which most Republicans agreed with was the protection of people with pre-existing conditions.

redleghunter  posted on  2016-11-11   17:24:36 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: redleghunter (#9)

"For example, the part of the AHA which most Republicans agreed with was the protection of people with pre-existing conditions."

Dr. Death said in an interview that group consists of 3 million Americans with an annual cost of $26 billion.

If the insurance companies will be expected to cover that cost, they'll spread it among everyone else they cover. Is that fair?

And how do we prevent people from only signing up after they get sick?

misterwhite  posted on  2016-11-11   17:39:43 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: misterwhite (#11)

f the insurance companies will be expected to cover that cost, they'll spread it among everyone else they cover. Is that fair?

And how do we prevent people from only signing up after they get sick?

Fair or unfair, it is absolutely necessary that everybody in the nation have health insurance.

If the economic burden is too great, the government will have to permanently subsidize it. Like Social Security, this is a must have, not a nice to have. Trump has always thought so too, so that's what we're going to get.

To keep the costs lower, Trump is going to nationalize the market, removing all of the state regulatory barriers to the sale of health insurance policies. But everybody will have a policy - it will be mandatory, just like Social Security is.

Fair or unfair, that's the way it has to be. It can be less overall expensive than Obamacare because of the nationwide mandate. It won't cover contraception and abortion, that's for sure. It will have a government subsidy, which will be set at a level that lets the insurance companies make their profit.

It's a good thing that peace with Russia is another major Trump plank, because the savings from not having to continue to fight this un-necessary neo-Cold War will be needed to fund universal health insurance.

The new Republican majority will be the working and middle class, not the upper class and free traders. There will no longer be trickle down economics. It will be economic nationalism and universal health insurance. Republicans will get in line with Trump and win a century of power or they will divide, Trump will get the votes for health care from moderate Republicans and Democrats, he'll get the policy through and be a hero for it, but the Republicans won't reap the political benefits.

He won the election, and dragged them along for the ride. He's going to change the philosophy of the GOP. It's not going to be statist, and it's not going to be Reaganomics. It's going to be a natioalist blue-collar/middle class party.

Vicomte13  posted on  2016-11-11   20:49:53 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: Vicomte13 (#17)

"Fair or unfair, it is absolutely necessary that everybody in the nation have health insurance."

I agree that everybody in the nation should have some sort of health insurance. That simply makes sense. But why must they?

Under my plan, I leave the choice to the American consumer. Under my plan, I repeal the idiotic, unfunded, 1986 federal mandate called The Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act (EMTALA) which forces hospitals to treat patients regardless of their insurance status or ability to pay.

Once that joke of a law is repealed, trust me, people will buy insurance.

misterwhite  posted on  2016-11-12   10:05:23 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: misterwhite (#20)

I agree that everybody in the nation should have some sort of health insurance. That simply makes sense. But why must they?

Because it is only affordable for everybody if everybody is in the pool. Otherwise the young and healthy won't buy it, which will skew it towards just those who are already sick, making it much more expensive.

And SOME of those who don't buy it, a substantial number, will end up getting cancer or other diseases, and will die if we don't help them (because nobody but the rich can actually pay for cancer treatment with their own resources).

We can't just let people die, so we will help them. And that will mean that in ADDITION to insurance costs being higher for everybody, the cost of treating the uninsured will be added on top of that.

It is much cheaper for all of us, on average over time, if everybody is in the pool. Unfortunately, people won't do that voluntarily, just as they won't voluntarily save enough for retirement. We have to have mandatory Social Security and mandatory health insurance because it's the only way to keep costs as low as possible for US, GIVEN THAT we're a Christian nation and cannot just let people die on the streets because of bad luck or bad choices.

The consequences of bad choices are still bad: you've gotta have cancer, you've gotta live in a crappy neighborhood where rent is low. But the consequences cannot in a civilized country be allowed to go as low as "you've gotta eat dog food, you've gotta freeze to death on the sidewalk, and you've gotta die of untreated cancer, because you made a bad call." That's too harsh.

It may be satisfying intellectually in the abstract, but we're never going to go that far. So I think we should be realistic and impose what needs to be imposed to keep what we've gotta do as cheap as possible.

Of course that is why I am for getting private fpr-profit insurance companies out of the mix completely and just going to French-style single-payer: make Medicare cover everybody, pay for doctors' medical school educations and provide malpractice and liability limitations IF, and only if, the doctors so subsidized agree to always take patients on Medicare. Medicaid, then, will continue to exist to cover the people too poor to pay the co-pay.

Get good tort reform in there, and that is that - a comprehensive system that covers all of the basic needs. There's no other major program needed after this, other than perhaps have the government take over direct lending at low interest for the primary housing.

Vicomte13  posted on  2016-11-12   11:49:26 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: Vicomte13 (#30)

"Otherwise the young and healthy won't buy it"

They would if a program was designed to fit their needs -- eg., a private medical savings account (to cover day-to-day medical expenses) that is tax free when set up with a corresponding catastrophic health insurance policy (to cover a major illness).

"We can't just let people die, so we will help them."

We do. The poor receive Medicaid. The elderly receive Medicare. We can subsidize the few on the margins.

The remainder can afford it. If they can afford it but refuse to obtain it, f**k 'em. Why in the world should I pay for something they can afford?

Once the word gets out, people will buy insurance.

"We have to have mandatory Social Security"

a) That program is going bankrupt -- as you well know. Yet you want to duplicate it for healthcare? b) There is talk of privatizing Social Security. Hardly a ringing endorsement of the program. c) Social Security was designed as a supplemental program, not the sole program for retirement.

"Of course that is why I am for getting private fpr-profit insurance companies out of the mix completely and just going to French-style single-payer:"

Screw single-payer. I'm against it.

misterwhite  posted on  2016-11-12   13:08:18 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: misterwhite (#32)

Well, this is the place where Republicans - if they want to keep and expand the majority that Trump just gave them, are going to have to change their philosophy.

They've been fighting Social Security since FDR, and Medicare since LBJ. Reagan ushered in trickle-down economics and free trade. They did not work.

There is plenty in the Republican ideals that can survive and thrive: pro-life, pro-defense, pro- border control, pro-law enforcement, pro-deregulation, pro-industry taxation, pro-energy, rejecting the absurd Global Warming hysteria, general pro-business.

BUT Trump just gave the Republican party the working class, the blue collar all across America. He gave them the lower middle class. This is the first time that the Republicans have had that class since they voted for Reagan, but the Reagan vote wasn't simply an economic vote, it was a vote against international weakness - our hostages were in Iran, the Soviets were in Afghanistan, Africa, Central America. We had given up the Panama Canal, our Iranian rescue mission turned into a fiery fiasco. Everything was falling to pieces, and the patriotic working class went with Reagan because he was red, white and blue.

This time, the vote for Trump was PUIRELY an economic play, just like for Sanders.

The Republicans have captured the attention of the working class and the struggling class. If the Republicans come through for them, they'll be the new dominant party for a generation. Reaganomic trickle-down won't cut it. The working class and middle class are dependent upon Social Security for their retirement, and they do not have the excess cash in their budgets to pay as much for health insurance as it cost. They must be subsidized.

So, this is what has to go in Republican philosophy. Caring about a Reagonmic ideal that really didn't work has to give way to beefing up the structured programs for working class and middle class health care and retirement, and improving education. The rest of the Republican plan will bring back jobs, and the GOP will gradually capture even the black vote IF (and ONLY if) they brings back tons of jobs and improve the distressed lot of the working class.

Health insurance is a fundamental. So is Social Security. Republicans have to bite the bullet on that and accept that the world has changed, that it just doesn't work in reality the way they'd like it to in their ivory towers, and that state support of people's health insurance and retirement insurance is a fundamental need, without which, the Republicans will never be able to keep the working class and lower middle class in their ranks.

Repyvblican run Social Security and Health Care can be more efficient than Democrat-run, IF the Republicans put their back into it, recognize the need and the inevitability, and just stop bitching about it and get it done.

Likewise, the VA needs to be turned into gold plan health care, instead of the current "Free clinic" level of care they give.

Vicomte13  posted on  2016-11-12   15:14:14 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: Vicomte13 (#33)

Hillary ran on socialized healthcare and lost. Trump ran on repealing and replacing Obamacare with a market-based system and won. Trump has no obligation to adopt a losing agenda.

misterwhite  posted on  2016-11-13   10:14:00 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 39.

#48. To: misterwhite (#39)

Trump ran on repealing and replacing Obamacare with a market-based system and won.

Yes, but Trump also ran on continuing to cover pre-existing conditions, and covering everybody, two things that Republicans DON'T want.

Vicomte13  posted on  2017-06-12 21:37:23 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 39.

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