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Health/Medical
See other Health/Medical Articles

Title: Taxpayers on the Hook as Obamacare Exchanges Near the Edge of Collapse
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://cnsnews.com/commentary/phil- ... e-exchanges-near-edge-collapse
Published: Aug 13, 2016
Author: Phil Kerpen
Post Date: 2016-08-13 09:35:51 by Justified
Keywords: None
Views: 8730
Comments: 96

The health insurance exchanges that are the beating heart of Obamacare are on the edge of collapse, with premiums rising sharply for ever narrower provider networks, non-profit health co-ops shuttering their doors, and even the biggest insurance companies heading for the exits amid mounting losses. Even the liberal Capitol Hill newspaper is warning of a possible “Obamacare meltdown” this fall.

Three states – Alaska, Alabama, and Wyoming – are already down to just a single insurance company, as are large parts of several other states, totaling at least 664 counties.

UnitedHealth is pulling out completely, Humana is pulling out of 88 percent of counties it was in, and last weak Aetna strongly suggested it will be exiting, too, unless it gets bribed to stay with a huge, annual infusion of direct corporate bailout payments from taxpayers.

Dealing with the wreckage will be at the top of the agenda for the new president and Congress next year, and their options will be limited – especially if, as appears likely, we will continue to have divided government. Most Democrats would prefer moving toward a totally government-run system while Republicans continue to favor repeal.

The most likely outcome, then, is the muddled middle, keeping gravely ill Obamacare on life support, with the major policy fight being over the extent to which taxpayers should be forced to provide billions in direct corporate bailout cash infusions.

Aetna CEO Mark Bertolini was pretty blatant in a recent interview with Zachary Tracer of Bloomberg.

Here’s the key part:

“Rather than transferring money among insurers, the law should be changed to subsidize insurers with government funds, Bertolini said. ‘It needs to be a non-zero sum pool in order to fix it,’ Bertolini said. Right now, insurers ‘that are less worse off pay for those that are worse off.’”

In other words: everybody is losing money, so taxpayers need to pick up the tab.

The Obama administration is already playing fast and loose with the law to shovel as many bailout bucks to insurers as they can – on top of Obamacare’s huge subsidies to lower income consumers and a penalty tax on people who don’t buy in. They shortchanged taxpayers by $3.5 billion that, contrary to law, they sent to insurance companies instead. And their legal posture in a $5 billion lawsuit to contravene a funding restriction expressly enacted by Congress to prevent a bailout via the so-called risk corridor program amount to a promise that they will somehow get them paid in the future.

Democrats will likely support legalizing these payments and authorizing even larger direct corporate bailouts on an ongoing basis as a way to keep insurance companies in the Obamacare exchanges and avoid admitting failure.

Republicans will likely be attacked as saboteurs for resisting bailout payments, but that misses the point. Direct corporate welfare to bribe companies to participate in a poorly designed program is throwing good money after bad, masking rather than fixing problems while the cost to taxpayers climbs into the stratosphere.

We won’t be able to get to a real solution until we acknowledge that Obamacare is too rigidly structured and regulated to offer products people actually want, and needs to be reformed or replaced with genuine, functioning markets that give us a much wider variety of plans with different benefit packages, provider networks, and payment structures.

Before that can happen, Obamacare supporters need to be held accountable for the law’s manifest failures – not permitted to paper them over with billions more of our tax dollars.

Phil Kerpen is head of American Commitment and a leading free-market policy analyst and advocate in Washington. Kerpen was the principal policy and legislative strategist at Americans for Prosperity for over five years. He previously worked at the Free Enterprise Fund, the Club for Growth, and the Cato Institute. Kerpen is also a nationally syndicated columnist, chairman of the Internet Freedom Coalition, and author of the 2011 book "Democracy Denied."

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 73.

#2. To: Justified (#0)

The better answer: SINCE the private sector cannot do it, nationalize it and have single payer.

That's where we will go. Clinton has always supported that, and Trump thinks it was a good idea in Canada.

I expect that Trump will push for deregulation, which could help some, but which won't really address it.

My view: there is no reason for, and no room for, any middleman insurance company profit in health care. Insurance companies provide nothing of value. They simply impose a premium on the cost of health care.

The answer is single payer health insurance, without profit, paid for out of taxes. This takes the burden off of employers completely. Health insurance should not be tied to a job. It's a fundamental human need, and should be part of the tableau of basic rights, like Social Security and universal public education.

Vicomte13  posted on  2016-08-13   11:44:48 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Vicomte13 (#2)

I can't says that federal government has done anything better than what the market could do. In fact federal government cost much more and gives much less and demands complete control with just a few corrupt people putting crazy demands on the system.

Single payer is crazy and the only option is to let the people decide what they want for the price they want it for. To spend more on healthcare than your house payment with no end in sight is crazy.

Single payer will demand everyone pay for abortions, transgender mutilations, fertilization gay couples, HIV for gay men, illegal alien coverage with out paying and who knows what else.

Market always beats government. Somewhere in time we deemed government and especially central government was for the people when it has shown its not and never has been. Thats why the founding fathers wanted most the power to be in the state where you could easily meet with the government official and they would have to listen to them.

Justified  posted on  2016-08-14   9:51:25 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Justified (#7)

Market always beats government.

The "market" without Social Security and Medicare means life expenctancies that are ten years lower than they are. That's the price of the free market in eldercare and financial support for the elderly.

We as a people have decided that it is better for the government redistribute some of the wealth of the nation into providing health care and income support for old people, because we don't like what the market produces.

As sovereign people, we have the right and power to do it, and we have, and we believe that we were right. You are part of the minority who disagrees. Your side lost this argument in the 1930s and the 1960s, and is losing it on health care in the 2010s. It's a free country and you are free to grouse about it until the cows come home. But the rest of us will continue to move along with the settled answers that the majority thinks is best, which is Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, universal public education and, in time, universal health insurance paid for by taxes.

In an imperfect world where the market does not work well enough to address such things, people form governments and vest government with the power to override private interest and find broader national solutions, using the sovereign power to tax to collect the resources necessary to pay for what is needed.

The conservative argument is that the government cannot do any of this well, that the market does it better. If the market did it adequately, we wouldn't have the political pressure for a government solution, and your side would have won the argument. You lost because in real life the market doesn't do a good job at addressing infrastructural issues where there is no profit in what must be done.

Vicomte13  posted on  2016-08-14   12:31:08 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Vicomte13 (#9)

The "market" without Social Security and Medicare means life expenctancies that are ten years lower than they are.

It might actually go up because its cheaper to live and you will not have to work as hard as you once did. SS and Medicare is not needed but have been part of society for so long that it would be near impossible to get rid of.

We as a people have decided that it is better for the government redistribute some of the wealth of the nation into providing health care and income support for old people, because we don't like what the market produces.

Thats how it always starts out. Its the demoncrap way the progressive way. "I really meant to do good but how was I suppose too know it would ruin the world"? Its happens so often that its a shame. If the leaders would be held responsible for their actions then I might budge but since their every actions causes more harm than good in the name of "I meant well" government should always be kept to the minimal as possible as to do the least amount of harm possible.

Once government enacts a program you have a better chance of converting a Moslem to Christianity broadcasted on world TV and have them still live in the same neighborhood.

In an imperfect world where the market does not work well enough to address such things, people form governments and vest government with the power to override private interest and find broader national solutions, using the sovereign power to tax to collect the resources necessary to pay for what is needed.

If you can not trust the people what makes you think you can trust the government run by people?!

In simple terms corrupt people will elect corrupt people to government and government will be corrupt. Nothing the government has ever claimed has ever panned out but we still are paying for it and our children are paying for it and someday our children's children will pay the heaviest price because you are jealous that some people make to much. I believe that is a sin is it not?

Look life is not fair deal with it. Janitors and hamburger flippers do not deserve to make as much tradesman who do not deserve to make as much as doctors and business owners.

People at the low end of pay deserve that low pay because they refuse to sacrifice to get the educations necessary to earn the pay they want. Every time govenrment steps into the market to make it more fair it only screws the middle class because no matter what you do the rich will always be rich. The rich will payoff the the corrupt government leaders to give them loopholes. Even Warren Buffett mocked the system and knows it when he claimed that his secretary pays more in income tax then he does.

Never forget government and taxation is a restriction on society and can never bring up a group without bringing down another. You may want to do God's work but end up doing the devils bid!

Justified  posted on  2016-08-14   13:23:24 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: Justified (#10)

Look life is not fair deal with it.

Life is not fair. Life is difficult. We HAVE dealt with it, with Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, Unemployment Insurance. And our world is immeasurably better because we have these things.

That's why the general public will not ever let Republican ideologues strip these things away.

In fact, we are going to double down and cover everybody with health insurance, and move towards government funding of college education, since college is now as necessary as high school.

This is the great divide between Republicans and everybody else. It's why you guys are the 30% minority, and why you have to rely on the Democrats screwing up spectacularly in order to get power. Because the people, writ large, never vote FOR you and your economics. We rejected those long ago and are never going back.

Vicomte13  posted on  2016-08-14   19:02:24 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: Vicomte13 (#13)

Life is not fair. Life is difficult. We HAVE dealt with it, with Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, Unemployment Insurance. And our world is immeasurably better because we have these things.

Actually the world is much worse off. Before you were responsible for your actions. Nowadays we just blame others for our own actions. Its always someone else fault I did not save for real needs but hey I have a new 60"TV, couch set that holds 10 people and a brand new vehicle. The selfish generations.

That's why the general public will not ever let Republican ideologues strip these things away.

Thats why my countries is bankrupt. How much longer will the other countries keep selling their goods for iou's?

In fact, we are going to double down and cover everybody with health insurance, and move towards government funding of college education, since college is now as necessary as high school.

Why not fund everything? Gas, power, water, sewer, food, clothing, vehicles, insurance[why have insurance when everything is free!], housing, entertainment, vacations, healthcare, dental care, mental care and whatever else you can think of? Hey we can let the rich pay for it! Right?

Before govenrment got involved all this above was cheap and affordable. Now no one can afford a damn thing. Government has to print money and borrow money just too pay for the give a ways. No you can not get rid of military and pay for jack shit because then you will lose more high paying jobs which means less money coming into the government through taxes.

Let me put it to you this way. Your utopian desires does not and can not work ever. Someone has to pay the bills and when you piss them all off they will stop working and then you have no one paying the bills! Communism doesn't which has been proven over and over again. Look at Cuba or Venezuela. Just pure shitholes where government rules by killing people who dare point out the truth!

To get want you want someone has to be the slave and someone gets to be the master.

Justified  posted on  2016-08-14   20:29:29 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: Justified (#17)

Your utopian desires does not and can not work ever.

You have it exactly backwards. It works in every major developed country in the world. The countries that do not have social security and health care systems and universal education are the shitholes.

Vicomte13  posted on  2016-08-14   21:56:56 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: Vicomte13 (#19)

You have it exactly backwards. It works in every major developed country in the world. The countries that do not have social security and health care systems and universal education are the shitholes.

It doesn't work because it demands enslaving people to pay for other people. They can uses tricks like deflating the dollar so people have to work harder for less. Borrow/print money until other countries get tired of the game. In the end it will come crashing down.

I guess the fact that the socialist have not only brought down the dollar so much that they actually are now paying special groups to take the money(negative rates).

Yes sounds like utopia is working well!/s

As long as we are on this earth life will be hard. Deal with it! Trying to make heaven out of this earth by cheating the system will only bring heart ache. What is the old saying "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions".

Justified  posted on  2016-08-15   9:56:40 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: Justified (#23)

As long as we are on this earth life will be hard. Deal with it!

We DO deal with it. Universal public education, unemployment insurance, Medicare, Medicaid, food stamps, Social Security and now, universal health insurance, are our ways of "dealing with it". They work better than the alternative of not having them, and the vast majority of people know that, which is why your view is in the severe minority, always will be, and never wins.

Vicomte13  posted on  2016-08-15   13:35:50 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: Vicomte13 (#25)

We DO deal with it.

Dealing with it is not stealing from hard working people to fund your desires. Where does it stop? Progressives are like the camel in the tent. You start out innocently but before you know it the whole herd is in the tent and the humans are outside in the weather.

They work better than the alternative of not having them,

The only reason why people do not have it is because government got involved and now what cost 300 a month now cost 800 a month and you get less for what you pay for.

If im in the minority then this country will collapse because there will be a point which its cheaper to get government gifts than to go and earn it! Let me tell you I would love to stay at home and make babies and not have to pay for a damn thing.

Justified  posted on  2016-08-15   18:49:47 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: Justified (#28)

Dealing with it is not stealing from hard working people to fund your desires. Where does it stop?

Taxation with representation is not tyranny or theft. It stops where the people through their elected representatives decide to draw the line.

Vicomte13  posted on  2016-08-16   10:37:40 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: Vicomte13 (#35)

Taxation with representation is not tyranny or theft. It stops where the people through their elected representatives decide to draw the line.

Just keep telling yourself this. Taxation(borrowing/printing/confiscation) is nothing more than payoffs and bribery anymore. Your idealism is clouding your judgement.

Government's crony capitalism has so distorted the income of America that people who are sucking of tit of government make much more than would otherwise be which has so destroyed the free market that Im not sure how it will ever be repaired short of a total economic meltdown. There is no capitalism left in America.

Justified  posted on  2016-08-17   8:12:37 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: Justified (#41)

There is no capitalism left in America.

And whose fault is that?

If you systematically, as a dogmatic ideological matter, refuse to take care of all of your people, you accumulate a large mass of struggling, desperate people. If enough are suffering, they have the numbers to act, and they DO act. And when they do, your ideology is shoved aside for theirs.

In the 1920s, the stock market and banks were essentially unregulated. They blew a massive bubble, then crashed. The Federal Reserve intervened in ways that did not successfully address the situation.

Meanwhile, there was massive unemployment, massive poverty and massive suffering. Nobody would do anything about it, and when they tried, the Supreme Court struck it down as unconstitutional.

So the people got fed up, after years and years of suffering, and elected FDR, and he came in, and capitalism was significantly regulated, altered, taxed, reigned in.

The same thing happened with racial segregation. The loss of liberty of businesses to decide which members of the public with whom they can choose to do business stems directly from the fact that a whole quadrant of the country was full of businessmen who simply decided that they would not do business with black people - or let them in their businesses.

This is obnoxious, and so the people intervened, and the wings of business liberty were further clipped. You have the right to decide who you serve, but only to a point. If you decide that you won't serve blacks, you have exceeded your rights.

That logic has now been extended to gays.

Now, the rule is that if you're open to the stream of commerce, you do NOT have the right to decide whom you will serve, for any reason and no reason. You have no right to refuse to serve blacks, or women, or gays. Had the racists not abused the blacks, people would have not lost the right to decide whom they must serve. But because of the way that people chose to, en masse, abuse that right, that right was taken away. Abuse it and lose it.

Capitalists without regulation chose to pour mercury into the waters and to poison the air, and to put chains on fire exits so that employees could not shirk. Then a fire happened and a lot of employees were burnt alive because they could not escape. And the air became dirty and the fish died. Net result, capitalism had its wings clipped further, now forcing it to provide safe working conditions, and imposing environmental regulations upon it.

Had the capitalists done the right thing from the beginning, it would not have been reigned back. But the capitalists didn't do the right thing with their liberty. They abused it and abused others in the process. So they lost a lot of that freedom, since they didn't handle it responsibly.

Vicomte13  posted on  2016-08-17   9:59:16 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: Vicomte13 (#43)

There is no capitalism left in America.

And whose fault is that?

Thats an answer that is quiet big.

First we gave into government thinking it was the answer to the problem and it was not. All it did was take and take and take and give and promoted the corrupted.

The answer has always been trust in God. We didn't like that answer so we trusted in man and govenrment. Which again failed us. If your such a man of faith why do you not have faith in God but Government instead?

Justified  posted on  2016-08-20   10:05:21 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#52. To: Justified (#50) (Edited)

I have faith in God. God's law: the land is given, for free, to each individual, as a birthright, and cannot be taken even to collect debt, or taxes, or as punishment.

So, there's the start: HOUSING IS FREE. That's the FIRST ECONOMIC LAW OF GOD.

And the second is: money cannot be lent at interest for primary human needs, and the poor have the RIGHT to borrow it, at zero interest, to be repaid over seven years. And in the seventh year, the debt is FORGIVEN and wiped clean.

God's THIRD law of economics is: 10% of excess production is given to the clergy for poverty relief, not as voluntary charity, but as mandatory, enforceable taxation, without deductions.

I am very well content with God's laws of economics, and would impose them as the law of the land if I were King.

I have never met a single other Christian who was willing to submit to God on economic matters, but I have had a lot of Christians lie to me about what God actually said on the matter, pretending that God did not impose those three laws. He did.

Christians, and Jews, and just about everybody else, absolutely DETEST God's law of money and land and debt and economics. They detest it, and they say it is impossible and unworkable, and thereby they call God an ignoramus who doesn't understand how the real world works.

All of my resort to simple welfare and Social Security is an ALLOWANCE to evil Christians and evil Jews who defy God outright, lie about what he said, and who categorically refuse to EVEN CONSIDER God's ACTUAL Law of economics.

So, you wanna talk about God's and God's law? THAT IS WHAT I FAVOR!

Free housing without debt as a birthright, mandatory lending at zero interest to cover human needs that cannot otherwise be paid, absolute debt forgiveness of such lending in the seventh year, no confiscation of housing for taxation, or for debt collection, or as punishment for crime. The birthright to the piece of land for housing is superior to all economic, criminal or national law. It is an absolute title that is not subject to government override, including for national emergencies or as punishment for treason. In that case, you execute the criminal and his heirs get the land.

So, if you really want to live under the Law of God, I am way ahead of you. I know that law, and as I said, that is the law I would impose as a godly King.

But I think that you don't want to have ANYTHING TO DO WITH GOD when it comes to his economic law. And I think that most Christians, given a choice between obeying God's economic laws and walking away from God, would walk away from God. What Christians do instead is IGNORE God's economic law and PRETEND they are following God. Which is hypocrisy.

I'm not a hypocrite. I'm a realist. Christians will not obey God. I would, but they won't. Therefore, I work with the people I've got and settle for the lesser solution of public welfare through taxation. It would be MUCH BETTER to go straight with the law of God.

But YOU will never go there. And you'll even pretend at length that God's law isn't really God's law, and blah, blah, blah, all of those lies that Christians have told themselves for centuries, which is why nobody takes them seriously.

Vicomte13  posted on  2016-08-20   12:05:20 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#65. To: Vicomte13 (#52)

Housing is not free and you are a liar!

A K A Stone  posted on  2016-08-22   7:49:55 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#66. To: A K A Stone (#65)

We've reached the end of the road.

There's nothing more to say. Really, nothing has been said for a long time other than insult.

These issues will be resolved by raw power, not reasoned argument.

So be it.

Vicomte13  posted on  2016-08-22   13:27:47 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#67. To: Vicomte13 (#66)

We've reached the end of the road.

There's nothing more to say.

At #18, you reached the end when you quipped: --

People who don't work get neither Social Security nor Medicare.

Which is correct ONLY if you're nitpicking words.

There are dozens of other medical and welfare programs that non-working people qualify for, and you know it.

tpaine  posted on  2016-08-22   13:51:21 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#68. To: tpaine (#67)

At #18, you reached the end

We reached the end a long, long time ago here.

I used to think that it was possible to get a fair hearing here from the Right. I've been Right of Center all my life.

It isn't, and I've given up on the American Right.

Given that this is a Right Wing website, and what I have to say does nothing but result in anger and accusation, it's pointless to even try anymore. Life is too short to waste time dwelling with people who are determined to be your enemies.

The world will go on, and the Right - YOUR Right - will get crushed by it. You yourselves have chosen that it should be so, by an unyielding, unreasoning intransigence about every single thing - a marked lack of charity, and a particularly dark streak of racial prejudice that keeps rearing its head.

If Trump manages to get elected, you'll have somebody who really isn't much like you, but who at least cares about the needs of your socio-economic class (which he does, as do I).

If he doesn't, you're going to crushed by the Left, and you're going to be alone as they do it. I used to be with you enough to be willing to fight for you. But you people have spent so much time fighting with me and insulting me, about every subject where we disagree that I'm no longer willing to fight for you at all.

So many times I have seen the desire to fight - to actually bear arms and rebel - expressed on this Right Wing site. The complete inability to negotiate or compromise ultimately traps you there: you either surrender and lose everything, or you fight to the death - and because you're a dwindling minority, that means that you get the death you're willing to fight for, and your opponents get the victory.

You very desperately need moderate, level-headed people to bring you back out of the fever swamps. But you don't want us.

For my part, I'm shoving off. It's been an interesting several years. At the beginning, I felt myself very much in the mainstream here. Now, ten years on, it's clear that arteries have hardened all around, hearing has been lost, and attitudes on the hard Right have become mulish.

Enjoy each other's company. Vote for Trump and hope he wins, because if you get Hillary, it's Waterloo for you.

Vicomte13  posted on  2016-08-22   14:10:29 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#70. To: Vicomte13, -- posts his swan song, and shoves off. (#68)

People who don't work get neither Social Security nor Medicare.

Which is correct ONLY if you're nitpicking words.

There are dozens of other medical and welfare programs that non-working people qualify for, and you know it.

We reached the end a long, long time ago here. --- I used to think that it was possible to get a fair hearing here from the Right. I've been Right of Center all my life.

To most here, you've posted more like a leftist communitarian, imho.

It isn't, and I've given up on the American Right.--- Given that this is a Right Wing website, and what I have to say does nothing but result in anger and accusation, it's pointless to even try anymore. Life is too short to waste time dwelling with people who are determined to be your enemies. --- The world will go on, and the Right - YOUR Right - will get crushed by it. You yourselves have chosen that it should be so, by an unyielding, unreasoning intransigence about every single thing - a marked lack of charity, and a particularly dark streak of racial prejudice that keeps rearing its head.

And you style yourself as a voice of fairness, - after calling us racists? ---- Get real.

If Trump manages to get elected, you'll have somebody who really isn't much like you, but who at least cares about the needs of your socio-economic class (which he does, as do I).

There you go again, putting us here in a lower 'class' than yourself. -- Laughable, but almost as bad as the racist crack.

If he doesn't, you're going to crushed by the Left, and you're going to be alone as they do it. I used to be with you enough to be willing to fight for you. But you people have spent so much time fighting with me and insulting me, about every subject where we disagree that I'm no longer willing to fight for you at all.

With 'allies' like you, were all in trouble, fer sure.

So many times I have seen the desire to fight - to actually bear arms and rebel - expressed on this Right Wing site. The complete inability to negotiate or compromise ultimately traps you there: you either surrender and lose everything, or you fight to the death - and because you're a dwindling minority, that means that you get the death you're willing to fight for, and your opponents get the victory. --- You very desperately need moderate, level-headed people to bring you back out of the fever swamps. But you don't want us.

You're right, -- we don't need your type to fight, we just need you to leave..

For my part, I'm shoving off. It's been an interesting several years. At the beginning, I felt myself very much in the mainstream here.

From the beginning, you were fooling only yourself.

Now, ten years on, it's clear that arteries have hardened all around, hearing has been lost, and attitudes on the hard Right have become mulish. --- Enjoy each other's company. Vote for Trump and hope he wins, because if you get Hillary, it's Waterloo for you.

If Trump loses, we'll survive to fight on another day, -- whereas, -- leaving makes you the loooser, imo.

tpaine  posted on  2016-08-23   21:16:18 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#72. To: tpaine, Vicomte13 (#70)

leaving makes you the loooser, imo.

I think you meant LoOser.

Fred Mertz  posted on  2016-08-23   21:34:59 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#73. To: Fred Mertz (#72)

--- leaving makes you the loooser, imo.

I think you meant LoOser.

Sorry Fred, I forgot the politically correct way to spell that.

tpaine  posted on  2016-08-23   21:39:57 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


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