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Vladimir Putin tells Tucker Carlson US should stop arming Ukraine to end war Putin hints Moscow and Washington in back-channel talks in revealing Tucker Carlson interview Trump accuses Fulton County DA Fani Willis of lying in court response to Roman's motion Mandatory anti-white racism at Disney. Status: Not Logged In; Sign In U.S. Constitution See other U.S. Constitution Articles Title: Peruta v San Diego Cty, no 2nd Amdt right to concealed Carry Source: 9th Circuit Court URL Source: [None] Published: Jun 9, 2016 Author: Circuit Judge W. Fletcher Post Date: 2016-06-09 16:48:27 by nolu chan Keywords: None Views: 27286 Comments: 127 Peruta v San Diego Cty, no 2nd Amdt right to concealed Carry Peruta et al v County of San Diego et al, 10-56971 (9th Cir, 9 Jul 2016) OPINION W. FLETCHER, Circuit Judge: Under California law, a member of the general public may not carry a concealed weapon in public unless he or she has been issued a license. An applicant for a license must satisfy a number of conditions. Among other things, the applicant must show “good cause” to carry a concealed firearm. California law authorizes county sheriffs to establish and publish policies defining good cause. The sheriffs of San Diego and Yolo Counties published policies defining good cause as requiring a particularized reason why an applicant needs a concealed firearm for self-defense. Appellants, who live in San Diego and Yolo Counties, allege that they wish to carry concealed firearms in public for self-defense, but that they do not satisfy the good cause requirements in their counties. They contend that their counties’ definitions of good cause violate their Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms. They particularly rely on the Supreme Court’s decisions in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008), and McDonald v. City of Chicago, 561 U.S. 742 (2010). We hold that the Second Amendment does not preserve or protect a right of a member of the general public to carry concealed firearms in public. Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread   Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 47. #1. To: nolu chan (#0) "We hold that the Second Amendment does not preserve or protect a right of a member of the general public to carry concealed firearms in public." The U.S. Supreme Court in Heller said nothing about concealed carry. Meaning the lower courts are free to interpret "bear arms" as they see fit. Their decisions, of course, only apply to their jurisdiction. misterwhite  posted on  2016-06-09   17:18:52 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #2. To: misterwhite (#1) The U.S. Supreme Court in Heller said nothing about concealed carry. Meaning the lower courts are free to interpret "bear arms" as they see fit. Their decisions, of course, only apply to their jurisdiction. Heller incorporated the 2nd Amendment against the Federal District of Columbia in 2008, but left the status of incorporation against the States undeclared. Opinion of the Court by Scalia. McDonald incorporated the 2nd Amendment against the States in 2010. Opinion of the Court by Alito. While the right to keep and bear arms in protected by the 2nd Amendment, the amendment does not state, claim, or imply that it either created or defined the right to keep and bear arms. The Framers felt no need to define what were, to them, the well known terms of English common law which had prevailed in the colonies and which were carried forth in the States after the revolution. The 2nd Amendment makes no allusion of the right to carry concealed weapons. I know of no law specifically for or against concealed carry from that era. The earliest concealed carry laws appear to have cropped up in 1813 in Kentucky and Louisiana. At the time, the 2nd Amendment did not apply to the States. Concealed carry may just not have been an issue back before the Constitution and Bill of Rights. Heller and McDonald make clear that the right to keep and bear arms is rooted in the English common law and that "the right to keep and bear arms is not 'a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose.'" Under Heller and McDonald it appears that there is nothing prohibiting a State from regulating or prohibiting the concealed carry of handguns. Prohibiting the carrying of handguns was held unconstitutional, but allowing open carry satisfies that. Of course, if Hillary appoints three or four justices to the Supreme Court, it may find that "common sense" regulations disarming United States civilians are lawfully justified by some emanation from some penumbra. McDonald at 20-21: Heller makes it clear that this right is “deeply rooted inthis Nation’s history and tradition.” Glucksberg, supra, at 721 (internal quotation marks omitted). Heller explored the right’s origins, noting that the 1689 English Bill of Rights explicitly protected a right to keep arms for self defense, 554 U. S., at ___–___ (slip op., at 19–20), and that by 1765, Blackstone was able to assert that the right to keep and bear arms was “one of the fundamental rights of Englishmen,” id., at ___ (slip op., at 20). Blackstone’s assessment was shared by the American colonists. As we noted in Heller, King George III’s attempt to disarm the colonists in the 1760’s and 1770’s “provoked polemical reactions by Americans invoking their rights as Englishmen to keep arms.” [16] Id., at ___ (slip op., at 21); see also L. Levy, Origins of the Bill of Rights 137–143(1999) (hereinafter Levy). The right to keep and bear arms was considered no less fundamental by those who drafted and ratified the Bill of Rights. “During the 1788 ratification debates, the fear that the federal government would disarm the people in order to impose rule through a standing army or selectmilitia was pervasive in Antifederalist rhetoric.” __________ [16] For example, an article in the Boston Evening Post stated: “For it is certainly beyond human art and sophistry, to prove the British subjects, to whom the privilege of possessing arms is expressly recognized by the Bill of Rights, and, who live in a province where the law requires them to be equip’d with arms, &c. are guilty of an illegal act, in calling upon one another to be provided with them, as the law directs.” Boston Evening Post, Feb. 6, 1769, in Boston Under Military Rule 1768–1769, p. 61 (1936) (emphasis deleted). McDonald at 39-40: It is important to keep in mind that Heller, while striking down a law that prohibited the possession of handguns in the home, recognized that the right to keep and bear arms is not “a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose.” 554 U. S., at ___ (slip op., at 54). We made it clear in Heller that our holding did not cast doubt on such longstanding regulatorymeasures as “prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill,” “laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms.” Id., at ___–___ (slip op., at 54–55). We repeat those assurances here.Despite municipal respondents’ doomsday proclamations, incorporation does not imperil every law regulating firearms. McDonald at 40: Municipal respondents suggest that the Second Amendment right differs from the rights heretofore incorporated because the latter were “valued for[their] own sake.” Id., at 33. But we have never previously suggested that incorporation of a right turns on whether it has intrinsic as opposed to instrumental value, and quite a few of the rights previously held to be incorporated—for example the right to counsel and the right to confront and subpoena witnesses—are clearly instrumental by any measure. Moreover, this contention repackages one of the chief arguments that we rejected in Heller, i.e., that the scope of the Second Amendment right is defined by the immediate threat that led to the inclusion of that right in the Bill of Rights. In Heller, we recognized that the codification of this right was prompted by fear that the Federal Government would disarm and thus disable the militias, but we rejected the suggestion that the right was valued only as a means of preserving the militias. 554 U. S., at ___ (slip op., at 26). On the contrary, we stressed that the right was also valued because the possession of firearms was thought to be essential for self-defense. As we put it, self-defense was “the central component of the right itself.” Ibid. nolu chan  posted on  2016-06-10   1:29:05 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #4. To: nolu chan (#2) "The earliest concealed carry laws appear to have cropped up in 1813 in Kentucky and Louisiana" And I believe those laws were against concealed carry, since the only reason to conceal a weapon was evil intent (or some such reasoning). misterwhite  posted on  2016-06-10   9:06:41 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #7. To: misterwhite (#4) Georgia had a statute of 1837 overturned by the Georgia Supreme Court in 1846. Here the court found banning concealed carry was acceptable, but banning open carry was not. The Georgia case involved both the Federal and State constitutions. A law which merely inhibits the wearing of certain weapons in a concealed manner is valid. But so far as it cuts off the exercise of the right of the citizen altogether to bear arms, or, under the color of prescribing the mode, renders the right itself useless, it is in conflict with the Constitution, and void. nolu chan  posted on  2016-06-10   16:50:25 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #8. To: nolu chan, misterwhite, roscoe, Y'ALL --- Three Amigos against our gun rights... (#7) nolu chan (#2) --- "The earliest concealed carry laws appear to have cropped up in 1813 in Kentucky and Louisiana" And I believe those laws were against concealed carry, since the only reason to conceal a weapon was evil intent (or some such reasoning). --- misterwhite (#4) NOLU ----Georgia had a statute of 1837 overturned by the Georgia Supreme Court in 1846. Here the court found banning concealed carry was acceptable, but banning open carry was not. The Georgia case involved both the Federal and State constitutions. A law which merely inhibits the wearing of certain weapons in a concealed manner is valid. But so far as it cuts off the exercise of the right of the citizen altogether to bear arms, or, under the color of prescribing the mode, renders the right itself useless, it is in conflict with the Constitution, and void. And, of course, the Constitution last mentioned above in Nunn, ---- was the US CONSTITUTION. Which infuriates you three amigos, who advocate that States can infringe on our gun rights. tpaine  posted on  2016-06-10   19:57:19 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #18. To: tpaine (#8) Didn't you defend kookifornia several months ago and claim it was coming around? Isn't that why you pay the most for your servitude? It's looking real swell. GrandIsland  posted on  2016-06-11   20:01:36 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #21. To: GrandIsland, misterwhite, roscoe, nolu Chan, gatlin, y'all (#18) Didn't you defend kookifornia several months ago and claim it was coming around? Isn't that why you pay the most for your servitude? It's looking real swell. I've never defended the liberals in California that claim the power to fringe on our gun rights. The only people I know who support that state power are your buddies here, -- misterwhite, roscoe, and nolu chan. How's that working out for you and gatlin? tpaine  posted on  2016-06-12   0:05:57 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #22. To: tpaine, GrandIsland, misterwhite, roscoe, nolu Chan (#21) Didn't you defend kookifornia several months ago and claim it was coming around? Isn't that why you pay the most for your servitude? It's looking real swell. I've never defended the liberals in California that claim the power to fringe (Sic) on our gun rights. The only people I know who support that state power are your buddies here, -- misterwhite, roscoe, and nolu chan. How's that working out for you and gatlin? First of all, I don’t know that misterwhie, roscoe and nolu chan “support that state power” has the power to fringe (Sic) on our gun rights. I only know that you just said they support it. And your say-so not supported by any proof will not work for me since I have found your assumptive statements to support your preformed conclusions to be consistently untrustworthy as a source of factual information. However, that being the case, I will attempt to answer your question when you asked how “that” is working out for me. As I attempt to answer your question, I would need first to try understand why these noble, highly intelligent and dedicatedly patriotic gentlemen whom I hold in such high esteem would ever want, assuming they did, “an ornamental border consisting of short straight or twisted threads or strips hanging from cut or raveled edges or from a separate band” (Merriam-Webster definition of fringe) “on our gun rights” before I determine if state power could control anything to do with said “fringe.” Since I have not been privy to prior interchange discussions, I can however emphatically state without any question whatsoever that I hate the combination of bright yellow and dark purple on the “fringe” you have referenced. This opinion of being the ugliest color combination ever is shared by a member of DeviantArt which is the world's largest online social community for artists and art enthusiasts, allowing people to connect through the creation and sharing of art. My delirium in this situation that bothers you so much and one you have so boldly taken liberty to thrust me into is best compared to the somber side-effect of a nation placed under sedation which was induced by a heroin-like injected haze of obfuscation and I always have a trepid tentativeness conflicting with a strong desire to stay free of any association with all stupid irrationality you Paultards present. That said and speaking for myself, never for GrandIsland, the Commerce Clause making the regulation of gun sales a state power is working out fine with me. Our Constitution lays out a specific power structure of the federal government and its relationship to the powers of states. While the Constitution does protect the rights of all private citizens to bear arms, the regulation of gun sales should be left to the states with the federal government maintaining its role of regulating interstate commerce. I trust this answer has satisfied your curiosity and I will forever remain at a total loss to understand why you pinged me to pose such an “out of the blue” question. Gatlin  posted on  2016-06-12   3:40:52 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #23. To: Gatlin (#22) "While the Constitution does protect the rights of all private citizens to bear arms, the regulation of gun sales should be left to the states with the federal government maintaining its role of regulating interstate commerce." Prior to the U.S. Supreme Court rulings in Heller and McDonald, individual gun rights were protected by state constitutions. Which is why gun laws were different in each state. California's state constitution says nothing about the right to keep and bear arms, meaning they can do whatever they want -- short of writing laws which would prevent the formation of an armed state militia. Since numbnuts lives in California, he does not want to face that fact and acuses everyone of trying to take his guns. Easier than amending the California constitution, I guess. misterwhite  posted on  2016-06-12   8:15:57 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #27. To: misterwhite, gatlin, both support Statists, again... (#23) Gatlin (#22) --- And "While the Constitution does protect the rights of all private citizens to bear arms, the regulation of gun sales should be left to the states with the federal government maintaining its role of regulating interstate commerce." misterwhite --- Prior to the U.S. Supreme Court rulings in Heller and McDonald, individual gun rights were protected by state constitutions. Which is why gun laws were different in each state. No, gun rights have always been protected by the Constitution, altho various yahoos in different states and localities have been allowed by leftist courts to infringe upon that right. California's state constitution says nothing about the right to keep and bear arms, meaning they can do whatever they want - - short of writing laws which would prevent the formation of an armed state militia. --- Since numbnuts lives in California, he does not want to face that fact and acuses everyone of trying to take his guns. Easier than amending the California constitution, I guess. California only needs to comply with the 2nd. -- This will occur in time, thru the ballot box, hopefully. But 'they', supported by you numbnut gun grabbers, will not prevail. tpaine  posted on  2016-06-12   9:28:52 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #29. To: tpaine (#27) California only needs to comply with the 2nd. -- This will occur in time, thru the ballot box, hopefully. Keep telling yourself that, while you fund the cost of the chains you wear... The top 5 states with the highest cost of chains. Kookifornia GrandIsland  posted on  2016-06-12   9:32:49 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #31. To: GrandIsland (#29) California only needs to comply with the 2nd. -- This will occur in time, thru the ballot box, hopefully. Keep telling yourself that, while you fund the cost of the chains you wear... If you're to be believed, (doubtful) you work with the Statists. Congrats. Although I'd bet you're on welfare, posting from your mother's basement. tpaine  posted on  2016-06-12   9:40:45 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #32. To: tpaine (#31) lol... I have two incomes. A pension and a full time paycheck... earning ANOTHER pension. My mother lives in a one bedroom townhouse like apartment that costs more a month than your home, taxes and car payment... and it doesn't have a basement or attic. Douchebag. I work to keep the drug addled scumbags you cheer for, off the streets and hopefully locked in 23 hours a day in the hole. GrandIsland  posted on  2016-06-12   9:45:50 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #33. To: GrandIsland (#32) If you're to be believed, (doubtful) you work with the Statists. Congrats. Although I'd bet you're on welfare, posting from your mother's basement. I work to keep the drug addled scumbags you cheer fvor, off the streets and hopefully locked in 23 hours a day in the hole. Your fascist dreams are noted, --- Thanks. tpaine  posted on  2016-06-12   9:55:51 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #34. To: tpaine (#33) It's not fascism to remove the rights and punish convicted felons. It's called punishment, after a guilty verdict by a jury of their peers, asshole. Only a liberal Paultard would equate that with government servitude. Suck it up, bleeding heart. Criminals WILL BE PUNISHED. Cry somewhere else. GrandIsland  posted on  2016-06-12   10:04:49 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #35. To: GrandIsland (#34) I work to keep the drug addled scumbags you cheer for, off the streets and hopefully locked in 23 hours a day in the hole. GrandIsland Fascistic dreams... It's not fascism to remove the rights and punish convicted felons. It's called punishment, after a guilty verdict by a jury of their peers, And you hope they're put in a hole for 23 hrs a day? -- Fascist dreaming. tpaine  posted on  2016-06-12   10:16:02 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #36. To: All you gungabbers, misterwhite, roscoe, nolu Chan, gatlin, grandisland, Willy Green (#35) Bump to a thread that outs you ALL. tpaine  posted on  2016-06-12   12:51:21 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #39. To: All you gungabbers, misterwhite, roscoe, nolu Chan, gatlin, grandisland, Willy Green (#36) All you gungabbers, misterwhite, roscoe, nolu Chan, gatlin, grandisland, Willy Green Bump to a thread that outs you ALL. tpaine  posted on  2016-06-12   15:11:44 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #47. To: All you gungabbers, misterwhite, roscoe, nolu Chan, gatlin, grandisland, Willy Green 36 All yrs, misterwhite, roscoe, nolu Chan, gatlin, grandisland, Willy Green (#39) Bump to a thread that outs you ALL. tpaine  posted on  2016-06-13   12:43:51 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   Replies to Comment # 47.         There are no replies to Comment # 47. End Trace Mode for Comment # 47. Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest

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