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Iceland Volcano Erupts For Third Time In 2 Months, State Of Emergency Declared Tucker Carlson Interview with Vladamir Putin Status: Not Logged In; Sign In U.S. Constitution See other U.S. Constitution Articles Title: Peruta v San Diego Cty, no 2nd Amdt right to concealed Carry Source: 9th Circuit Court URL Source: [None] Published: Jun 9, 2016 Author: Circuit Judge W. Fletcher Post Date: 2016-06-09 16:48:27 by nolu chan Keywords: None Views: 27278 Comments: 127 Peruta v San Diego Cty, no 2nd Amdt right to concealed Carry Peruta et al v County of San Diego et al, 10-56971 (9th Cir, 9 Jul 2016) OPINION W. FLETCHER, Circuit Judge: Under California law, a member of the general public may not carry a concealed weapon in public unless he or she has been issued a license. An applicant for a license must satisfy a number of conditions. Among other things, the applicant must show “good cause” to carry a concealed firearm. California law authorizes county sheriffs to establish and publish policies defining good cause. The sheriffs of San Diego and Yolo Counties published policies defining good cause as requiring a particularized reason why an applicant needs a concealed firearm for self-defense. Appellants, who live in San Diego and Yolo Counties, allege that they wish to carry concealed firearms in public for self-defense, but that they do not satisfy the good cause requirements in their counties. They contend that their counties’ definitions of good cause violate their Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms. They particularly rely on the Supreme Court’s decisions in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008), and McDonald v. City of Chicago, 561 U.S. 742 (2010). We hold that the Second Amendment does not preserve or protect a right of a member of the general public to carry concealed firearms in public. Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread   Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest Comments (1-13) not displayed.       .       .       . #14. To: misterwhite, Y'ALL (#13) Mr. Chief Justice MARSHALL delivered the opinion of the court." Lest we forget, John Marshall was one of the Founding Fathers. He would know what he's talking about. misterwhite John Marshall was a founding father who insisted that States could ignore our individual rights as outlined in the Constitution. And lest we forget, misterwhite insists that States can ignore our right to bear arms. tpaine  posted on  2016-06-11   10:53:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #15. To: tpaine (#12) AMERICUS, JULY TERM, 1846 251 Nunn vs. The State of Georgia The above, quoted from Nunn, destroys your position that prior to the 14th, There was NO opinion that the 2nd Amendment applied to the States. Obviously, you are proven a idiot once again. Nunn v. State, 1 Kelly 243 (Ga. 1846) overrode SCOTUS Barron v. City of Baltimore, 32 U.S. 243, (1833) the way a Georgia court opinion saying abortion is not a constitutionally protected right would today overrule Roe v. Wade. Notably, you can not cite any post where I ever said that "prior to the 14th, There was NO opinion that the 2nd Amendment applied to the States." This is because you just make up crap and defecate on the internet. Vidal v. Garcia-Padilla, CIVIL NO. 14-1253 (PG) (D.P.R. Mar 08, 2016) B. The Doctrine of Selective Incorporation At the time of its adoption in 1871, the Bill of Rights — and, particularly, the individual liberties secured within it — did not apply against the States. See Barron ex rel. Tiernan v. Baltimore, 32 U.S. 243, 250 (1833)(noting that the amendments found in the Bill of Rights "contain no expression indicating an intention to apply them to the State governments"); Lessee of Livingston v. Moore, 32 U.S. 469, 551-552 (1833)(same). Nevertheless, in the aftermath of the Civil War, the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution was adopted to protect certain individual rights from interference by the States. And thereafter, the Supreme Court began using that Amendment's Due Process Clause to "incorporate" a number of the individual liberties found in the first ten Amendments against the States, "initiating what has been called a process of 'selective incorporation,' i.e. the Court began to hold that the Due Process Clause fully incorporates particular rights contained in the first [ten] Amendments." McDonald v. City of Chicago, III., 561 U.S. 742, 763 (2010)(alteration in original)(listing cases). The Fourteenth Amendment provides, in pertinent part, that "[n]o State shall...deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws." U.S. Const. amend. XIV, § 1. In the cases decided during this era, the Court fashioned the boundaries of the Due Process Clause by expressly incorporating those rights considered fundamental to a scheme of ordered liberty and system of justice. See id., 561 U.S. at 760-764; see also Palko v. Connecticut, 302 U.S. 319 (1937)(indicating that due process protects those rights that are "the very essence of a scheme of ordered liberty"); Duncan v. Louisiana, 391 U.S. 145, 148 (1968)(referring to those "fundamental principles of liberty and justice which lie at the base of all our civil and political institutions")(internal quotations omitted). Today, most of the rights found in the first ten Amendments have been incorporated. With respect to the First Amendment, see Everson v. Board of Ed. of Ewing, 330 U.S. 1 (1947)(Establishment Clause); Cantwell v. Connecticut, 310 U.S. 296 (1940)(Free Exercise Clause); De Jonge v. Oregon, 299 U.S. 353 (1937)(freedom of assembly); Gitlow v. New York, 268 U.S. 652 (1925)(free speech); Near v. Minnesota ex rel. Olson, 283 U.S. 697 (1931)(freedom of the press). As to the Second Amendment's right to bear arms, see McDonald v. City of Chicago, 561 U.S. at 742. With respect to the Fourth Amendment, see Aguilar v. Texas, 378 U.S. 108 (1964) (warrant requirement); Mapp v. Ohio, 367 U.S. 643 (1961)(exclusionary rule); Wolf v. Colorado, 338 U.S. 25 (1949)(freedom from unreasonable searches and seizures). With respect to the Fifth Amendment, see Benton v. Maryland, 395 U.S. 784 (1969) (Double Jeopardy Clause); Malloy v. Hogan, 378 U.S. 1 (1964) (privilege against self-incrimination); Chicago, B. & Q.R. Co. v. Chicago, 166 U.S. 22 (1897) (Just Compensation Clause). With respect to the Sixth Amendment, see Duncan, 391 U.S. 145 (trial by jury in criminal cases); Washington v. Texas, 388 U.S. 14 (1967)(compulsory process); Klopfer v. North Carolina, 386 U.S. 213 (1967)(speedy trial); Pointer v. Texas, 380 U.S. 400 (1965) (Confrontation Clause); Gideon v. Wainwright, 372 U.S. 335 (1963) (assistance of counsel); In re Oliver, 333 U.S. 257 (1948)(right to a public trial). With respect to the Eighth Amendment, see Robinson v. California, 370 U.S. 660 (1962)(Cruel And Unusual Punishments Clause); Schilb v. Kuebel, 404 U.S. 357 (1971)(Excessive Bail Clause). nolu chan  posted on  2016-06-11   19:51:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #16. To: tpaine, misterwhite (#14) John Marshall was a founding father who insisted that States could ignore our individual rights as outlined in the Constitution. And lest we forget, misterwhite insists that States can ignore our right to bear arms. More blithering legal idiocy. "It is emphatically the province and duty of the judicial department to say what the law is. Those who apply the rule to particular cases must, of necessity, expound and interpret that rule. If two laws conflict with each other, the courts must decide on the operation of each." Marbury v. Madison, 5 U.S. (1 Cranch) 137; 2 L. Ed. 60 (1803). Actually, Chief Justice Marshall wrote majority opinions of the U.S. Supreme Court. Marbury was a unanimous opinion of the U.S. Supreme Court. It was emphatically the province and duty of the judicial department to say what the law is, and Chief Justice Marshall was the proper authority to write for the majority of the Court. What he wrote was the Opinion of the Court. While the judicial department is empowered to say what the law is, tpaine is not. Notably absent is a tpaine provision of any opinion of any justice in the U.S. Supreme Court that has ever agreed with his nonsense that the original Bill of Rights applied to the States, other than through incorporation via the 14th Amendment. tpaine pronouncements contrary to U.S. Supreme Court holdings are legally meaningless bleatings of a fool. nolu chan  posted on  2016-06-11   19:55:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #17. To: tpaine (#12) You've been outed for the phony that you are. Go tilt some more windmills at Justice Scalia. Talk about a phony. Idiot tpaine thinking he is responding to nolu chan: [SCALIA] The Supremacy Clause, Art. VI, cl. 2, reads: “This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.” It is apparent that this Clause creates a rule of decision: [tpaine #90] A "rule of decision"? --- Who in hell made up that OPINION? And why should I care? [nc] Antonin Scalia "made up that Opinion," and you should care because he did it as an Associate Justice writing a majority opinion of the U.S. Supreme court. [SCALIA] Courts “shall” regard the “Constitution,” and all laws “made in Pursuance thereof,” as “the supreme Law of the Land.” They must not give effect to state laws that conflict with federal laws. [tpaine #90] You are paraphrasing the words as written to make another OPINION, --- You really can't help yourself, can you.... [nc] Scalia was writing a majority Opinion of the U.S. Supreme Court. [SCALIA] ---- It instructs courts what to do when state and federal law clash, but is silent regarding who may enforce federal laws in court, and in what circumstances they may do so. [tpaine #90] You're simply making up more opinions on what the supremacy clause means. -- Its apparent you can't stop this inane form of argument. [nc] Justice Scalia was writing a majority Opinion of the U.S. Supreme Court pertaining to what the supremacy clause means. It speaks loudly of your intellect that you find his form of argument to be inane. nolu chan  posted on  2016-06-11   19:59:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #18. To: tpaine (#8) Didn't you defend kookifornia several months ago and claim it was coming around? Isn't that why you pay the most for your servitude? It's looking real swell. I'm the infidel... Allah warned you about. كافر المسلح GrandIsland  posted on  2016-06-11   20:01:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #19. To: misterwhite (#13) Lest we forget, John Marshall was one of the Founding Fathers. He would know what he's talking about. In Congressional debate in 1789, even the congressmen said the then-proposed amendments applied only to the Federal government. One hopes that at least a couple of them knew what they were talking about. The Congressional Register, First Congress, 2nd Ed., Vol. 2 (1790), In context, in all cases when reference was made to "the government," the Federal congressmen referred to the Federal government, and not to the several State governments, as is clear when one considers Mr. Hartley's statement "that all the rights and powers that were not given to the government, were retained by the states and the people thereof...." In its final version, this appeared as Amendment Nine, "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." August 15, 1789 Page 194: The house then resolved itself into a committee of the whole on the amendments to the constitution. Page 197: The next clause of the 4th proposition was taken into consideration, and was as follows: "The freedom of speech and of the press, and the right of the people peaceably to assemble and consult for their common good, and to apply to the government for redress of grievances shall not be infringed." Page 197: Mr. BENSON. The committee who framed this report, proceded on the principle that these rights belonged to the people; they conceived them to be inherent, and all that they meant to provide against, was their being infringed by the government. Page 198: Mr. HARTLEY Observed that it had been asserted in the convention of Pennsylvania, by the friends of the constitution, that all the rights and powers that were not given to the government, were retained by the states and the people thereof; this was also his own opinion, but as four or five states had required to be secured in those rights by an express declaration in the constitution, he was disposed to gratify them; he thought every thing that was not incompatible with the general good ought to be granted, if it would tend to obtain the confidence of the people in the government, and upon the whole, he thought these woreds were as necessary to be inserted in the declaration of rights as most in the clause. Page 203: Mr. GERRY By the checks provided in the constitution, we have good grounds to believe that the very framers of it conceived that the government would be liable to mal-administration, and I presume that the gentlemen of this house do not mean to arrogate to themselves more perfection than human nature has as yet been found to be capable of; if they do not, they will admit an additional check against abuses which this, like every other government, is subject to. = = = = = = = = = = John Marshall in the Convention debating the BOR Amendments. http://www.constitution.org/rc/rat_va_13.htm MONDAY, June 16, 1788.[1] The Convention, according to the order of the day, again resolved itself into a committee of the whole Convention, to take into further consideration the proposed plan of government. Mr. WYTHE in the chair. [The 8th section still under consideration. See page 378.] [1. Elliot misprinted this as Monday, June 14, 1788.] [excerpt] Mr. JOHN MARSHALL All the restraints intended to be laid on the state governments (besides where an exclusive power is expressly given to Congress) are contained in the 10th section of the 1st article. This power is not included in the restrictions in that section. = = = = = = = = = = James Madison letter to Thomas Jefferson of October 17, 1788, excerpt. It is true nevertheless that not a few, particularly in Virginia have contended for the proposed alterations from the most honorable & patriotic motives; and that among the advocates for the Constitution there are some who wish for further guards to public liberty & individual rights. As far as these may consist of a constitutional declaration of the most essential rights, it is probable they will be added; though there are many who think such addition unnecessary, and not a few who think it misplaced in such a Constitution. There is scarce any point on which the party in opposition is so much divided as to its importance and its propriety. My own opinion has always been in favor of a bill of rights; provided it be so framed as not to imply powers not meant to be included in the enumeration. At the same time I have never thought the omission a material defect, nor been anxious to supply it even by subsequent amendment, for any other reason than that it is anxiously desired by others. I have favored it because I supposed it might be of use, and if properly executed could not be of disservice. I have not viewed it in an important light—1. because I conceive that in a certain degree, though not in the extent argued by Mr. Wilson, the rights in question are reserved by the manner in which the federal powers are granted. nolu chan  posted on  2016-06-11   22:17:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #20. To: nolu chan (#17) The above, quoted from Nunn, destroys your position that prior to the 14th, There was NO opinion that the 2nd Amendment applied to the States. Hey shithead, There you go again with the juvenile name calling. -- Whatta clown.. -- link to any post where I said that "prior to the 14th, There was NO opinion that the 2nd Amendment applied to the States." The thread is: The Ninth Circuit: Right to Bear Arms Includes Right to Acquire Arms --- With #110 posts, look it up yourself. And, the Georgia state court in 1846 cannot overrule They aren't 'overruling' anything. Just issuing their opinion. --- Ithe precedent set, and still in effect, by the unanimous U.S. Supreme Court in 1833. To the extent that Nunn is in conflict with Barron, it is null and void. So you NOW contend that the SCOTUS of 1833 could void a State opinion about the 2nd? Answer the question, IF you can.. tpaine  posted on  2016-06-11   23:35:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #21. To: GrandIsland, misterwhite, roscoe, nolu Chan, gatlin, y'all (#18) Didn't you defend kookifornia several months ago and claim it was coming around? Isn't that why you pay the most for your servitude? It's looking real swell. I've never defended the liberals in California that claim the power to fringe on our gun rights. The only people I know who support that state power are your buddies here, -- misterwhite, roscoe, and nolu chan. How's that working out for you and gatlin? tpaine  posted on  2016-06-12   0:05:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #22. To: tpaine, GrandIsland, misterwhite, roscoe, nolu Chan (#21) Didn't you defend kookifornia several months ago and claim it was coming around? Isn't that why you pay the most for your servitude? It's looking real swell. I've never defended the liberals in California that claim the power to fringe (Sic) on our gun rights. The only people I know who support that state power are your buddies here, -- misterwhite, roscoe, and nolu chan. How's that working out for you and gatlin? First of all, I don’t know that misterwhie, roscoe and nolu chan “support that state power” has the power to fringe (Sic) on our gun rights. I only know that you just said they support it. And your say-so not supported by any proof will not work for me since I have found your assumptive statements to support your preformed conclusions to be consistently untrustworthy as a source of factual information. However, that being the case, I will attempt to answer your question when you asked how “that” is working out for me. As I attempt to answer your question, I would need first to try understand why these noble, highly intelligent and dedicatedly patriotic gentlemen whom I hold in such high esteem would ever want, assuming they did, “an ornamental border consisting of short straight or twisted threads or strips hanging from cut or raveled edges or from a separate band” (Merriam-Webster definition of fringe) “on our gun rights” before I determine if state power could control anything to do with said “fringe.” Since I have not been privy to prior interchange discussions, I can however emphatically state without any question whatsoever that I hate the combination of bright yellow and dark purple on the “fringe” you have referenced. This opinion of being the ugliest color combination ever is shared by a member of DeviantArt which is the world's largest online social community for artists and art enthusiasts, allowing people to connect through the creation and sharing of art. My delirium in this situation that bothers you so much and one you have so boldly taken liberty to thrust me into is best compared to the somber side-effect of a nation placed under sedation which was induced by a heroin-like injected haze of obfuscation and I always have a trepid tentativeness conflicting with a strong desire to stay free of any association with all stupid irrationality you Paultards present. That said and speaking for myself, never for GrandIsland, the Commerce Clause making the regulation of gun sales a state power is working out fine with me. Our Constitution lays out a specific power structure of the federal government and its relationship to the powers of states. While the Constitution does protect the rights of all private citizens to bear arms, the regulation of gun sales should be left to the states with the federal government maintaining its role of regulating interstate commerce. I trust this answer has satisfied your curiosity and I will forever remain at a total loss to understand why you pinged me to pose such an “out of the blue” question. Gatlin  posted on  2016-06-12   3:40:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #23. To: Gatlin (#22) "While the Constitution does protect the rights of all private citizens to bear arms, the regulation of gun sales should be left to the states with the federal government maintaining its role of regulating interstate commerce." Prior to the U.S. Supreme Court rulings in Heller and McDonald, individual gun rights were protected by state constitutions. Which is why gun laws were different in each state. California's state constitution says nothing about the right to keep and bear arms, meaning they can do whatever they want -- short of writing laws which would prevent the formation of an armed state militia. Since numbnuts lives in California, he does not want to face that fact and acuses everyone of trying to take his guns. Easier than amending the California constitution, I guess. misterwhite  posted on  2016-06-12   8:15:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #24. To: nolu chan (#19) "In Congressional debate in 1789, even the congressmen said the then-proposed amendments applied only to the Federal government." Hell, the Preamble to the Bill of Rights spells it out: "THE Conventions of a number of the States having at the time of their adopting the Constitution, expressed a desire, in order to prevent misconstruction or abuse of its powers, that further declaratory and restrictive clauses should be added: And as extending the ground of public confidence in the Government, will best insure the beneficent ends of its institution." The states were concerned about delegating power to the newly-formed federal government and added the first 10 amendments (Bill of Rights) to "prevent misconstruction or abuse" of those powers. Each state was fiercely independent. They wouldn't write one Bill of Rights to limit their own powers. misterwhite  posted on  2016-06-12   8:29:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #25. To: Gatlin, confesses to Statism, y'all (#22) I've never defended the liberals in California that claim the power to infringe on our gun rights. The only people I know who support that state power are your buddies here, -- misterwhite, roscoe, and nolu chan. How's that working out for you and gatlin? First of all, I don’t know that misterwhie, roscoe and nolu chan “support that state power” has the power to infringe on our gun rights. I only know that you just said they support it. Read much? -- On this thread alone they've ALL outed themselves as statist gun grabbers, -- and they've been doing that for years, on this forum and others. That said and speaking for myself, never for GrandIsland, the Commerce Clause making the regulation of gun sales a state power is working out fine with me. Our Constitution lays out a specific power structure of the federal government and its relationship to the powers of states. While the Constitution does protect the rights of all private citizens to bear arms, the regulation of gun sales should be left to the states with the federal government maintaining its role of regulating interstate commerce… And there we have it, your own confession that you support the supposed power of States to regulate/infringe upon our gun rights. --- Thank you. tpaine  posted on  2016-06-12   9:05:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #26. To: tpaine (#25) The 2nd Amendment only applies to single-shot, flintlock, smooth-bore muzzleloaders, tpaine... anything invented afterward can be regulated anyway the government wants. Willie Green  posted on  2016-06-12   9:22:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #27. To: misterwhite, gatlin, both support Statists, again... (#23) Gatlin (#22) --- And "While the Constitution does protect the rights of all private citizens to bear arms, the regulation of gun sales should be left to the states with the federal government maintaining its role of regulating interstate commerce." misterwhite --- Prior to the U.S. Supreme Court rulings in Heller and McDonald, individual gun rights were protected by state constitutions. Which is why gun laws were different in each state. No, gun rights have always been protected by the Constitution, altho various yahoos in different states and localities have been allowed by leftist courts to infringe upon that right. California's state constitution says nothing about the right to keep and bear arms, meaning they can do whatever they want - - short of writing laws which would prevent the formation of an armed state militia. --- Since numbnuts lives in California, he does not want to face that fact and acuses everyone of trying to take his guns. Easier than amending the California constitution, I guess. California only needs to comply with the 2nd. -- This will occur in time, thru the ballot box, hopefully. But 'they', supported by you numbnut gun grabbers, will not prevail. tpaine  posted on  2016-06-12   9:28:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #28. To: Willie Green (#26) Come try and take mine, libtard. I'll give you 50,000 (don't tell Buckyboy, he's too stupid to understand) reasons (230 grains at a time) why you interpret the 2nd amendment wrong. I'm the infidel... Allah warned you about. كافر المسلح GrandIsland  posted on  2016-06-12   9:30:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #29. To: tpaine (#27) California only needs to comply with the 2nd. -- This will occur in time, thru the ballot box, hopefully. Keep telling yourself that, while you fund the cost of the chains you wear... The top 5 states with the highest cost of chains. Kookifornia I'm the infidel... Allah warned you about. كافر المسلح GrandIsland  posted on  2016-06-12   9:32:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #30. To: Willie Green joins the canary klan (#26) The 2nd Amendment only applies to single-shot, flintlock, smooth-bore muzzleloaders, tpaine... anything invented afterward can be regulated anyway the government wants. Willie Green Thanks for adding yourself to this roll call of numbnut gun grabbers, Willy. tpaine  posted on  2016-06-12   9:33:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #31. To: GrandIsland (#29) California only needs to comply with the 2nd. -- This will occur in time, thru the ballot box, hopefully. Keep telling yourself that, while you fund the cost of the chains you wear... If you're to be believed, (doubtful) you work with the Statists. Congrats. Although I'd bet you're on welfare, posting from your mother's basement. tpaine  posted on  2016-06-12   9:40:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #32. To: tpaine (#31) lol... I have two incomes. A pension and a full time paycheck... earning ANOTHER pension. My mother lives in a one bedroom townhouse like apartment that costs more a month than your home, taxes and car payment... and it doesn't have a basement or attic. Douchebag. I work to keep the drug addled scumbags you cheer for, off the streets and hopefully locked in 23 hours a day in the hole. I'm the infidel... Allah warned you about. كافر المسلح GrandIsland  posted on  2016-06-12   9:45:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #33. To: GrandIsland (#32) If you're to be believed, (doubtful) you work with the Statists. Congrats. Although I'd bet you're on welfare, posting from your mother's basement. I work to keep the drug addled scumbags you cheer fvor, off the streets and hopefully locked in 23 hours a day in the hole. Your fascist dreams are noted, --- Thanks. tpaine  posted on  2016-06-12   9:55:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #34. To: tpaine (#33) It's not fascism to remove the rights and punish convicted felons. It's called punishment, after a guilty verdict by a jury of their peers, asshole. Only a liberal Paultard would equate that with government servitude. Suck it up, bleeding heart. Criminals WILL BE PUNISHED. Cry somewhere else. I'm the infidel... Allah warned you about. كافر المسلح GrandIsland  posted on  2016-06-12   10:04:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #35. To: GrandIsland (#34) I work to keep the drug addled scumbags you cheer for, off the streets and hopefully locked in 23 hours a day in the hole. GrandIsland Fascistic dreams... It's not fascism to remove the rights and punish convicted felons. It's called punishment, after a guilty verdict by a jury of their peers, And you hope they're put in a hole for 23 hrs a day? -- Fascist dreaming. tpaine  posted on  2016-06-12   10:16:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #36. To: All you gungabbers, misterwhite, roscoe, nolu Chan, gatlin, grandisland, Willy Green (#35) Bump to a thread that outs you ALL. tpaine  posted on  2016-06-12   12:51:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #37. To: misterwhite (#23) Since numbnuts lives in California, he does not want to face that fact and acuses everyone of trying to take his guns. Easier than amending the California constitution, I guess. That make sense and it comes as no surprise. He does have a weird aspect on causes and effects. Gatlin  posted on  2016-06-12   12:56:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #38. To: Gatlin (#37) misterwhite--- California's state constitution says nothing about the right to keep and bear arms, meaning they can do whatever they want - - short of writing laws which would prevent the formation of an armed state militia. --- Since numbnuts lives in California, he does not want to face that fact and acuses everyone of trying to take his guns. Easier than amending the California constitution, I guess. California only needs to comply with the 2nd. -- This will occur in time, thru the ballot box, hopefully. But 'they', supported by you numbnut gun grabbers, will not prevail. --- And they cannot "do whatever they want". gatlin --- He does have a weird aspect on causes and effects. Cause --- Apparently, no one in Orlando was able to defend themselves. Effect -- A lone gunman was able to slaughter 50 of them. tpaine  posted on  2016-06-12   13:27:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #39. To: All you gungabbers, misterwhite, roscoe, nolu Chan, gatlin, grandisland, Willy Green (#36) All you gungabbers, misterwhite, roscoe, nolu Chan, gatlin, grandisland, Willy Green Bump to a thread that outs you ALL. tpaine  posted on  2016-06-12   15:11:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #40. To: tpaine (#20) So you NOW contend that the SCOTUS of 1833 could void a State opinion about the 2nd? Answer the question, IF you can.. Yes. Recently, the U.S. Supreme Court in Obergefell overturned every State law and State court opinion contrary to Obergefell, and made gay marriage legal in all 50 states. Do you think a State court could issue a valid opinion and overturn Obergefell and find gay marriage in that State to be unlawful? Answer the question, IF you can. nolu chan  posted on  2016-06-12   17:29:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #41. To: nolu chan (#40) So you NOW contend that the SCOTUS of 1833 could void a State opinion about the 2nd?. Bear in mind that according to you, earlier, you said they couldn't. Answer the question, IF you can.. Yes. --- Recently, the U.S. Supreme Court in Obergefell overturned every State law and State court opinion contrary to Obergefell, and made gay marriage legal in all 50 states. So now you say they can, and then you said they couldn't. Is it any wonder you're rapidly becoming known as a phony legal beagle? tpaine  posted on  2016-06-12   17:53:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #42. To: Gatlin (#22) First of all, I don’t know that misterwhie, roscoe and nolu chan “support that state power” has the power to fringe (Sic) on our gun rights. To clear that up, no, I have never said such a thing, and tpaine just likes to make things up. tpaine crazily imagines the Second Amendment extends to any and all weapons, and I believe the right was carried over from the English common law and the English Declaration of Rights signed into law February 13, 1689 by William and Mary on the day of their ascension to the throne. A standing army at peacetime without the consent of Parliament is illegal. That the raising or keeping a standing army within the kingdom in time of peace, unless it be with consent of Parliament, is against law. All protestants have the right to bear arms for defense. These the subjects which are Protestants may have arms for their defence suitable to their conditions and as allowed by law. So, no, you do not have a right to keep and bear nuclear weapons, or other weapons not allowed by law. The question is not which part of the right can be infringed (none), but what is encompassed by the right. The right is one that the colonists enjoyed before July 4, 1776, and which they retained after the revolution, and which is constitutionally protected. First, the people protected their right in their State constitutions: North Carolina Constitution of 1776 XVII. That the people have a right to bear arms, for the defence of the State; and as standing armies, in time of peace, are dangerous to liberty, they ought not to be kept up; and that the military should be kept under strict subordination to, and governed by the civil power. Pennsylvania Constitution of 1776 XIII. That the people have a right to bear arms for the defence of themselves and the state; and as standing armies in the time of peace are dangerous to liberty, they ought not to be kept up; And that the military should be kept under strick subordination to, and governed by, the civil power. Vermont Constitution of 1777 XV. That the people have a right to bear arms for the defence of themselves and the State; and, as standing armies, in the time of peace, are dangerous to liberty, they ought not to be kept up; and that the military should be kept under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power. Virginia Bill of Rights of 1776 Sec. 13. That a well-regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defence of a free State; that standing armies, in time of peace, should be avoided, as dangerous to liberty; and that in all cases the military should be under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power. Chief Justice Taft said that the Constitution "cannot be interpreted safely except by reference to the common law...." Ex Parte Grossman, 267 US 87, 118-19 (1925), Chief Justice Taft, Opinion of the Court The language of the Constitution cannot be interpreted safely except by reference to the common law and to British institutions as they were when the instrument was framed and adopted. The statesmen and lawyers of the Convention who submitted it to the ratification of the Conventions of. the thirteen States, were born and brought up in the atmosphere of the common law, and thought and spoke in its vocabulary. They were familiar with other forms of government, recent and ancient, and indicated in their discussions earnest study and consideration of many of them, but when they came to put their conclusions into the form of fundamental law in a compact draft, they expressed them in terms of the common law, confident that they could be shortly and easily understood. Jefferson wrote about constitutional interpretation that attempts to find meanings that may be squeezed out of the text. Letter of Thomas Jefferson to William Joohnson, June 12, 1833 2. on every question of construction, carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, conform to the probable one in which it was past. nolu chan  posted on  2016-06-12   18:21:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #43. To: tpaine (#41) (Edited) So now you say they can, and then you said they couldn't. No, you are still just being an asshole. And you could not answer the question of why Obergefell swept away every State law and State court opinion that conflicted with it, just as Barron did. nolu chan  posted on  2016-06-12   18:24:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #44. To: nolu chan (#43) So you NOW contend that the SCOTUS of 1833 could void a State opinion about the 2nd?. Bear in mind that according to you, earlier, you said they couldn't. Yes. So now you say they can, and then you said they couldn't. Is it any wonder you're rapidly becoming known as a phony legal beagle? No, you are still just being an asshole. No, I'm just commenting on your inability to explain yourself. tpaine  posted on  2016-06-12   18:34:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #45. To: tpaine (#12) So you NOW contend that the SCOTUS of 1833 could void a State opinion about the 2nd?. No, in all cases since there has been a Federal court system, any State court holding about anything, including about the 2nd Amendent, in conflict with any Federal court opinion, is overturned and rendered null and void by the Federal court opinion. I said that the State court opinion of 1846 that you cited (Nunn) could not overrule the precedent set the unanimous U.S. Supreme Court (Barron) in 1833. To the extent that the State court opinion (Nunn) was in conflict with the SCOTUS opinion (Barron), it (Nunn) was null and void. nolu chan at #11: And, the Georgia state court in 1846 cannot overrule the precedent set, and still in effect, by the unanimous U.S. Supreme Court in 1833. To the extent that Nunn is in conflict with Barron, it is null and void. I said that Obergefell "overturned every State law and State court opinion contrary to Obergefell. nolu chan #40: Recently, the U.S. Supreme Court in Obergefell overturned every State law and State court opinion contrary to Obergefell, and made gay marriage legal in all 50 states. Continuing at nolu chan #40: Do you think a State court could issue a valid opinion and overturn Obergefell and find gay marriage in that State to be unlawful? Answer the question, IF you can. It is rather obvious that yours is a pitiful effort to obfuscate the fact that you are unable to answer the return question. Damn, you are pitiful. You are so much like yukon, you are yukon. And you are a dishonorable asshole. Why don't you know if "you think a State court could issue a valid opinion and overturn Obergefell and find gay marriage in that State to be unlawful?" tpaine at #9: Nunn vs. The State of Georgia The above, quoted from Nunn, destroys your position that prior to the 14th, There was NO opinion that the 2nd Amendment applied to the States. You are the shithead who claimed that a State court opinion (Nunn 1846) overruled the holding of a unanimous U.S. Supreme Court holding (Barron 1833). Way to go, shithead. nolu chan at #10: Hey shithead, link to any post where I said that "prior to the 14th, There was NO opinion that the 2nd Amendment applied to the States." You have not and cannot link to any such post and have failed to do so. Your horseshit at #12 did not do so, in your usual bullshit way when you are a cornered cockroach and have no answer. tpaine content free bullshit at #12: The thread is: The Ninth Circuit: Right to Bear Arms Includes Right to Acquire Arms --- With #110 posts, look it up yourself. You couldn't do it, could you, shithead. As previously stated, I will never fail to show you the respect I feel you deserve. nolu chan  posted on  2016-06-12   23:16:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #46. To: nolu chan (#45) tpaine at #9: Nunn vs. The State of Georgia The above, quoted from Nunn, destroys your position that prior to the 14th, There was NO opinion that the 2nd Amendment applied to the States. You --- ---- claimed that a State court opinion (Nunn 1846) overruled the holding of a unanimous U.S. Supreme Court holding (Barron 1833). --- No, I claimed at #9, that Nunn destroyed YOUR position. nolu chan at #10: Hey ---- link to any post where I said that "prior to the 14th, There was NO opinion that the 2nd Amendment applied to the States." The thread is: The Ninth Circuit: Right to Bear Arms Includes Right to Acquire Arms --- With #110 posts, look it up yourself.. And, please continue to obsess over this. ---- It's very amusing. tpaine  posted on  2016-06-12   23:51:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #47. To: All you gungabbers, misterwhite, roscoe, nolu Chan, gatlin, grandisland, Willy Green 36 All yrs, misterwhite, roscoe, nolu Chan, gatlin, grandisland, Willy Green (#39) Bump to a thread that outs you ALL. tpaine  posted on  2016-06-13   12:43:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #48. To: nolu chan (#45) He loves Nunn because it asserts that concealed weapons bans are permissible under the Second Amendment. He's a closet gun grabber. Roscoe  posted on  2016-06-13   13:56:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #49. To: Roscoe, a hopeless liar (#48) Ho hum, more lies from the coward roscoe. Nothing new folks, he can't help himself. tpaine  posted on  2016-06-13   14:02:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #50. To: tpaine, yukon, but i repeat myself (#46) Nunn vs. The State of Georgia The above, quoted from Nunn, destroys your position that prior to the 14th, There was NO opinion that the 2nd Amendment applied to the States. Of course, I never said their was "NO opinion that the 2nd Amendment applied to the States." There are assholes and idiots, such as yourself, that hold the opinion that the 2nd Amendment applied to the States. Barron is Judicial precedent of the U.S. Supreme Court since 1833, still being cited as such in 2016. All court opinions from any lower Federal court or any State court must yield. This explains, embarrassingly, why Obergefell struck down all conflicting State laws and court opinions, and why all states are legally required to recognize gay marriage. - - - - - You --- ---- claimed that a State court opinion (Nunn 1846) overruled the holding of a unanimous U.S. Supreme Court holding (Barron 1833). --- No, I claimed at #9, that Nunn destroyed YOUR position. As Nunn, by a State court, did nothing because it was contrary to the holding of SCOTUS in Barron, it did nothing to destroy my position. You comment only identifed you as an incompetent fool. The question thus presented is, we think, of great importance, but not of much difficulty. The Constitution was ordained and established by the people of the United States for themselves, for their own government, and not for the government of the individual States. Each State established a constitution for itself, and in that constitution provided such limitations and restrictions on the powers of its particular government as its judgment dictated. The people of the United States framed such a government for the United States as they supposed best adapted to their situation and best calculated to promote their interests. The powers they conferred on this government were to be exercised by itself, and the limitations on power, if expressed in general terms, are naturally, and we think necessarily, applicable to the government created by the instrument. They are limitations of power granted in the instrument itself, not of distinct governments framed by different persons and for different purposes. Barron is Judicial precedent of the U.S. Supreme Court since 1833, still being cited as such in 2016. All court opinions from any lower Federal court or any State court must yield. Cooper v Aaron, 358 US 1 (1958): 1. This Court cannot countenance a claim by the Governor and Legislature of a State that there is no duty on state officials to obey federal court orders resting on this Court’s considered interpretation of the United States Constitution in Brown v. Board of Education, 347 U.S. 483. P. 4. [...] Article VI of the Constitution makes the Constitution the “supreme Law of the Land.” In 1803, Chief Justice Marshall, speaking for a unanimous Court, referring to the Constitution as “the fundamental and paramount law of the nation,” declared in the notable case of Marbury v. Madison, 1 Cranch 137, 177, that “It is emphatically the province and duty of the judicial department to say what the law is.” This decision declared the basic principle that the federal judiciary is supreme in the exposition of the law of the Constitution, and that principle has ever since been respected by this Court and the Country as a permanent and indispensable feature of our constitutional system. It follows that the interpretation of the Fourteenth Amendment enunciated by this Court in the Brown case is the supreme law of the land, and Art. VI of the Constitution makes it of binding effect on the States “any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.” Every state legislator and executive and judicial officer is solemnly committed by oath taken pursuant to Art. VI, cl. 3, “to support this Constitution.” - - - - - nolu chan at #10: Hey ---- link to any post where I said that "prior to the 14th, There was NO opinion that the 2nd Amendment applied to the States." The thread is: The Ninth Circuit: Right to Bear Arms Includes Right to Acquire Arms --- With #110 posts, look it up yourself.. As I said, you cannot and did not link to any post. You didn't because you can't. - - - - - And, please continue to obsess over this. ---- It's very amusing. I am not obsessing. I am documenting, for the world to see, that are a blithering idiot who has no clue what he is talking about. Please continue your assistance to my noble mission. nolu chan  posted on  2016-06-13   16:39:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #51. To: Roscoe (#48) He loves Nunn because it asserts that concealed weapons bans are permissible under the Second Amendment. He's a closet gun grabber. If that were why the incompetent nutcase loves a State court opinion, he would be far better served citing Federal U.S. Supreme Court opinions. Robertson v. Baldwin, 165 U.S. 275, 281-82 (1897) (7-1) The law is perfectly well settled that the first ten amendments to the Constitution, commonly known as the "Bill of Rights," were not intended to lay down any novel principles of government, but simply to embody certain guaranties and immunities which we had inherited from our English ancestors, and which had, from time immemorial, been subject to certain well recognized exceptions arising from the necessities of the case. In incorporating these principles into the fundamental law, there was no intention of disregarding the exceptions, which continued to be recognized as if they had been formally expressed. Thus, the freedom of speech and of the press (Art. I) does not permit the publication of libels, blasphemous or indecent articles, or other publications injurious to public morals or private reputation; the right of the people to keep and bear arms (Art. II) is not infringed by laws prohibiting the carrying of concealed weapons; the provision that no person shall be twice put in jeopardy (Art. V) does not prevent a second trial if upon the first trial the jury failed to agree or if the verdict was set aside upon the defendant's motion, United States v. Ball, 163 U. S. 662, 163 U. S. 627, nor does the provision of the same article that no one shall be a witness against himself impair his obligation to testify if a prosecution against him be barred by the lapse of time, a pardon, or by statutory enactment, Brown v. Walker, 161 U. S. 591, and cases cited. Nor does the provision that an accused person shall be confronted with the witnesses against him prevent the admission of dying declarations, or the depositions of witnesses who have died since the former trial. - - - - - Heller 554 US 570, 626 (2008) Like most rights, the right secured by the Second Amendment is not unlimited. From Blackstone through the 19th-century cases, commentators and courts routinely explained that the right was not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose. See, e.g., Sheldon, in 5 Blume 346; Rawle 123; Pomeroy 152–153; Abbott 333. For example, the majority of the 19th-century courts to consider the question held that prohibitions on carrying concealed weapons were lawful under the Second Amendment or state analogues. See, e.g., State v. Chandler, 5 La. Ann., at 489–490; Nunn v. State, 1 Ga., at 251; see generally 2 Kent *340, n. 2; The American Students’ Blackstone 84, n. 11 (G. Chase ed. 1884). Although we do not undertake an exhaustive historical analysis today of the full scope of the Second Amendment, nothing in our opinion should be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms.[Footnote 26] [Footnote 26] We identify these presumptively lawful regulatory measures only as examples; our list does not purport to be exhaustive. McDonald, 561 U.S. 742 (2010) Slip op. at 11: In the late 19th century, the Court began to considerwhether the Due Process Clause prohibits the States frominfringing rights set out in the Bill of Rights. See Hurtado v. California, 110 U. S. 516 (1884) (due process does not require grand jury indictment); Chicago, B. & Q. R. Co. v. Chicago, 166 U. S. 226 (1897) (due process prohibits States from taking of private property for public use without just compensation). Five features of the approach taken during the ensuing era should be noted. First, the Court viewed the due process question as entirely separate from the question whether a right was aprivilege or immunity of national citizenship. See Twining v. New Jersey, 211 U. S. 78, 99 (1908). Second, the Court explained that the only rights protected against state infringement by the Due Process Clause were those rights “of such a nature that they are included in the conception of due process of law.” Ibid. See also, e.g., Adamson v. California, 332 U. S. 46 (1947); Betts v. Brady, 316 U. S. 455 (1942); Palko v. Connecticut, 302 U. S. 319 (1937); Grosjean v. American Press Co., 297 U. S. 233 (1936); Powell v. Alabama, 287 U. S. 45 (1932). While it was “possible that some of the personal rights safeguarded by the first eight Amendments against National action [might] also be safeguarded against state action,” the Court stated, this was “not because those rights are enumerated in the first eight Amendments.” Twining, supra, at 99. Slip op. at 39: It is important to keep in mind that Heller, while striking down a law that prohibited the possession of handguns in the home, recognized that the right to keep and bear arms is not “a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose.” 554 U. S., at ___ (slip op., at 54). We made it clear in Heller that our holding did not cast doubt on such longstanding regulatory measures as “prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill,” “laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms.” Id., at ___–___ (slip op., at 54–55). We repeat those assurances here. Despite municipal respondents’ doomsday proclamations, incorporation does not imperil every law regulating firearms. nolu chan  posted on  2016-06-13   16:41:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #52. To: nolu chan (#50) lu chan at #10: Hey ---- link to any post where I said that "prior to the 14th, There was NO opinion that the 2nd Amendment applied to the States." The thread is: The Ninth Circuit: Right to Bear Arms Includes Right to Acquire Arms --- With #110 posts, look it up yourself.. s I said, you cannot and did not link to any post. You didn't because you can't. As I said, do it yourself, as I am NOT at your service. - - - - - And, please continue to obsess over this. ---- It's very amusing. I am not obsessing. I am documenting, for the world to see, that are a blithering idiot who has no clue what he is talking about --- Please continue your assistance to my noble mission. The world? God but you are funny. The only thing anyone is seeing in our discussion is YOUR obsessive behavior about your NOBLE MISSON? Thanks for the laughs.. tpaine  posted on  2016-06-13   17:09:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #53. To: nolu chan, and the Klan, --- Have they no shame? (#51) We made it clear in Heller that our holding did not cast doubt on such longstanding regulatory measures as “prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill,” “laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms.” There you see it agAin, sports fans, the canary Klan trying to justify their support for gun free zones, -- by quoting Heller. Have they no shame? tpaine  posted on  2016-06-13   17:16:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #54. To: tpaine (#52) As I said, you cannot and did not link to any post. You didn't because you can't. As I said, do it yourself, as I am NOT at your service. As I said, you cannot and did not link to any post. You didn't because you can't. As no such post exists, I will not look for one. It's just your bullshit that you cannot defend about a non-existent post. As if you would not link to such a post if you could. You are such a sorry sack of shit. nolu chan  posted on  2016-06-13   17:51:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply         .       .       . Comments (55 - 127) not displayed. Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest

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