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Title: Are the GOP rules really rigged against Donald Trump?
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URL Source: http://www.cnbc.com/2016/04/25/are- ... t-donald-trump-commentary.html
Published: Apr 26, 2016
Author: Bruce Abramson Jeff Ballabon
Post Date: 2016-04-26 06:04:05 by no gnu taxes
Keywords: None
Views: 14881
Comments: 108
“It’s not fair!” may be the most pitiful lament in the English language, but Donald Trump seems intent upon adopting it as his battle cry heading into this summer’s Republican convention. The GOP’s poorly designed nominating process includes more than its share of problems, but is it really unfair to Trump? The question does warrant consideration — particularly given Monday morning’s announcement that the Cruz and Kasich campaigns have decided to coordinate their efforts to deny Trump the nomination. Perhaps the unfairness is miscommunication, or worse, deceptive marketing. Nominating processes exist to select a party's standard-bearer. While there may be room to dispute whether "the party" means professional leadership, elected officials, state and county committee members, or registered members, it ought not extend to anyone who decides to participate in a primary or caucus; open primaries invite abuse from voters whose goals may not involve selecting the party's strongest representative. Those with deep ties to the party deserve greater input than those with tenuous or nonexistent connections. Yet Democrats and Republicans alike have chosen to pretend otherwise. America's primary season has the look and feel of an extended general election, from polling places to media coverage. This season, both parties have spread the misconception, both have been caught in the lie, and both have angered many voters whose support they will need in November. While some might see this deception as unfair, however, it has hardly worked against Trump. Trump's connection to the Republican Party is weak and of recent vintage, and he often boasts that many of his supporters are new to the Republican Party. Longstanding Republicans have generally preferred the more traditional candidates. If anything then, Trump is a beneficiary of this misrepresentation rather than its victim. Perhaps the unfairness lies instead with the dizzyingly variable rules converting primary votes into delegates. In a reasonable system, each state would allocate delegates proportionately. As things stand, most states do not. Still, the big losers in this arena have been Marco Rubio and John Kasich; Trump has leveraged about 40 percent of the vote into about 49 percent of the delegates. Perhaps, then, the unfairness lies with the finish line, drawn one delegate beyond the 50 percent mark. It is entirely possible that the first-place finisher — almost certainly Trump — will fail to cross that finish line on the first round. But Americans are quite comfortable with concepts like overtime, or with rules insisting that victory requires a margin of at least two points. Few consider it unfair to award the Super Bowl, Stanley Cup, or World Series title to a team that failed to boast the best record in regular season play. Here, too, the rules have been clear for decades: if no candidate crosses the finish line in round one, play proceeds into round two, with rules different enough to permit a different outcome. Or perhaps the unfairness stems from the mysterious "Rule 40(b)," limiting consideration to candidates winning majority support from eight state delegations — a hurdle that only Trump and Ted Cruz can clear. Perhaps Trump's complaint is that the rules committee, which meets at the start of each convention, is likely to eliminate Rule 40(b) and open the floor to additional nominees. But Rule 40(b) was a one-time anomaly, designed to minimize Ron Paul's role in the 2012 convention. No one ever expected it to persist. Finally, is it unfair for two of the remaining candidates to collaborate — some might say conspire — against a third? Election law contains many rules about the sorts of coordination permissible in support of a candidate, but relatively few rules about coordination to defeat a candidate. According to the strategy announce this morning, the Cruz and Kasich campaigns have simply agreed to focus their efforts in different states with upcoming primaries. Hard to see anything unfair about that. Regardless, the tactical politicking pales in comparison to the unique advantages Trump's campaign has exploited with his enormous wealth and celebrity-driven free media coverage. Our political system hasn't been fair to Trump? Really? No, the only plausible source of Trump's complaint is that he might not win. Despite having leveraged his marketing prowess to an improbable lead among pledged delegates, he may still fall short, collapsing in the playoffs after a remarkable regular season. At the end of the day, and for all of its flaws, the GOP will have held a fair nominating contest if Trump breaks 1,237 votes on the first ballot to become its nominee. It will have held a fair nominating contest if an inconclusive first round allows Cruz's strategic ground game to soldier across the finish line on the second or third round. And it will have held a fair nominating contest if the delegates pull a name out of a hat to break the deadlock on the forty-second round. In the art of the deal, it's all about closing. "It's not fair!" is a slogan for whiners, not for winners. It is not a battle cry for fierce competitors. It is, as Trump should recognize, the last refuge of pathetic wimps. A pathetic wimp will not make America great again. Nor will a loser who declares victory upon coming close. America deserves a president who can master the complex rules of world leadership and play to win. If Trump wants to be that president, he will have to convince Americans that he possesses that mastery. Bellyaching about a set of rules that have broken to his clear advantage is hardly convincing.
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#1. To: All (#0)
Obama has played at being a president while enjoying the perks … golf, insanely expensive vacations at tax-payer expense. He has ignored the responsibilities of the job; no plans, no budgets, no alternatives … just finger pointing; making him a complete failure as a president
`eth yalad `eth muwth.
A long piece that seeks to justify whatever-the-fuck the powers-that-be want to do. In the Republican Party, they have reached the end of their rope. If they fail to stop Trump, he will win and sweeping reform will come, from him, that will make the primaries be what they appear to be: elections to determine the party's nominee. If they succeed in taking the nomination away from Trump and giving it to one of the losers in the primary race, or to a non-participant, the party will be destroyed at the polls in the general election, as all of the Trump Democrats go home to their party, and millions of Independents and angry Trump Republicans vote Democrat in revenge. Let Trump have his victory fair and square, and he'll win the general. The Republicans will keep the Supreme Court and the Senate and the House. Steal it from him, and the Republicans will lose the Court and the Congress, and Hillary and the Democrats will take sufficient actions (such as federal motor voter, amnesty, etc.) to ensure that the Republicans never win another election. Either way, the Republican Party as it currently stands is a dead man walking. With Trump, it will be reformed by him to stop the practices that are trying to steal the nomination from him. Cheat Trump, and Hillary and the Democrat machine will change the voting process in America sufficiently that it won't matter WHAT the Republicans do, they will be too small a minority, and discredited, and defeated. Business as usual in the GOP is finished.
Why are his head and neck tanned but his body pale? Looks like a photoshop.
Yes for sure 100 percent. That is why the gopher County chair in Colorado is saying there were many errors. Says a do ever is in order. Talks about trump people left off ballot and other irregularities. Anyone who says otherwise is a dumb ass.
Poorly designed. Hardly. It's worked well for the last 20 years, giving us establishment unelectables like Dole, McCain and Romney. It also tried to give us JEB!. What with the primaries front-loaded with "blue" states, open primaries in those states, and "flexible" delegate assignment rules, we got the candidate the establishment wanted. Screw the little people.
That doesn't seem fair. Trump currently has 844 delegates. Cruz, Kasich, and Rubio combined have 862. I think the Trump campaign team finally did the math and know there will at least be a second ballot call at the convention. If Rubio and Kasich delegates go to Cruz, there may be a third and fourth ballot. Trump should be thanking the GOP for its 'beer math' delegate system. It has worked in his favor as he only has 40% of the popular votes compared to his 49% of delegates. Of course the facts is not what most politicians are interested in. So I don't see how people call the process unfair. Trump does not have the majority of delegates right now. He may in the next few days. He may even reach the magic number. However, right now, he does not have the majority of delegates. Three others combined do.
They would if they simply gave the title to some random team that didn't earn it. Or that didn't even play in the regular season.
A very poor photoshop. FYI, not everything on the internet is true.
Are you saying we should have three Presidents?
Bob, rumors are carried by haters, spread by fools and accepted by idiots.
Different process. The parties are nominating candidates for President.
Perhaps. Or perhaps the unfairness lies instead with a state changing the rules during the primary and awarding delegates to whomever they want, without even asking the people. Perhaps. Or perhaps the unfairness lies in a state holding back uncommitted delegates even after the election shows a clear winner. Perhaps. Or perhaps the unfairness lies with two candidates colluding to draw votes from a third. Perhaps. Call all that what you will, but no one would call it "fair".
Then I'll re-phrase. Are you saying we should have three Presidential candidates?
Maybe Cruz, Kasich, and Rubio could run as a "GOP triumvirate" against Clinton.
Obama has played at being a president while enjoying the perks … golf, insanely expensive vacations at tax-payer expense. He has ignored the responsibilities of the job; no plans, no budgets, no alternatives … just finger pointing; making him a complete failure as a president
Exactly. I mean, they have more delegates than Trump, right?
I'll state clearly again. The GOP is in the nomination process for a Presidential candidate. These rules have been in place (Convention rules) for about a half a century or longer.
Well exactly ONE candidate will have to get 1237. And if it goes to a second ballot and beyond, it very well may not be Trump, regardless of his delegate lead going in. He so far has shown zero ability to corral unpledged delegates.
Obama has played at being a president while enjoying the perks … golf, insanely expensive vacations at tax-payer expense. He has ignored the responsibilities of the job; no plans, no budgets, no alternatives … just finger pointing; making him a complete failure as a president
Or within GOP convention rules the three which add up to a majority can come to a decision on a second ballot to cast their support and delegates behind one of the three. The above scenario is NOT a contested convention but the actual process. For example, tomorrow Kasich and Rubio could announce they will drop out and ask their delegates to support either Trump or Cruz. Both won't because they are awaiting a phone call from The Donald to offer the VP slot.
Correct. A Presidential candidate. So why are you combining the delegates from three Presidential candidates?
So Trump walks into the convention with 1150 delegates, the vast majority of the states and the vast majority of the votes and Rubio ends up with the nomination, just what do you think will happen? Are you saying, "Well, rules are rules" and everyone will shrug their shoulders and go home? I mean, that's what you're implying.
Are you saying, "Well, rules are rules" and everyone will shrug their shoulders and go home? I mean, that's what you're implying. No, I don't think that would be good for the GOP at all. I'm just saying it could happen, and it won't be breaking any rules or laws. I believe there are a number of people in the GOP who would cut off their noses to spite their faces rather than see Trump nominated. Obama has played at being a president while enjoying the perks … golf, insanely expensive vacations at tax-payer expense. He has ignored the responsibilities of the job; no plans, no budgets, no alternatives … just finger pointing; making him a complete failure as a president
You are in the wrong 'sport.' This is a nomination process and not a general election campaign. For the GOP nomination as long as a candidate continues on the ballot in all state contests they are assured on a first ballot to have those delegates counted at the National GOP Convention. The nomination process is an amalgamation of the 50 states and US territories state GOP conventions culminating in the GOP National Convention. It is not a national democratic election nor is our Electoral system for the general election. Trump will no doubt have a plurality of delegates at the national convention but he will not have (most likely) a majority. If he has a majority of the delegates there will be no second ballot. This process should not be so difficult for Republicans and any American to recognize. If in the general election for President no candidate reaches 270 electoral votes what happens? It goes to the House of Representatives. If you have an issue with that or a President who is elected with over 270 electoral votes but loses the popular vote, then you can keep company with Algore.
Well, as long as no rules or laws were broken then I'm sure all the Trump supporters will unite behind Rubio.
Are you saying, "Well, rules are rules" and everyone will shrug their shoulders and go home? I mean, that's what you're implying. You won't have to worry about such a scenario. Roger Stone speaking for Trump already threatened anyone thinking of changing their mind on a second ballot. The GOP convention process is not as bad as everyone misunderstands it to be. It was designed for the party who is nominating a candidate to have a voice and influence in the process. For example, if a GOP candidate with a plurality of the votes come convention time is indicted of a crime, the party has the mechanism to ensure such a tainted candidate does not get the nomination.
That still doesn't explain why you combined three candidates for the nomination.
How's that been working for them? Perhaps that's why the people are objecting to this "GOP convention process"?
Mark my words: if the Republican Party uses legalistic games and legerdemain to steal the nomination from Donald Trump, the final result will be that you will never again see another Republican President, or Senate, or Supreme Court. The people will never be forget or forgive the Republicans. Adamant, ardent certitude of the rectitude of an unjust, lost cause. Pickett's Charge all over again. It's sad to see.
I wonder what the democrats will do if Hillary is indicted. If Trump comes in with around 1200 or maybe even 1100, I think he'll get the nomination. But if Cruz pulls off Indiana, snags most of the unpledged delegates in PA, then goes out west and does quite well, and comes in only a couple of hundred delegates down, anything could happen. Obama has played at being a president while enjoying the perks … golf, insanely expensive vacations at tax-payer expense. He has ignored the responsibilities of the job; no plans, no budgets, no alternatives … just finger pointing; making him a complete failure as a president
You have recounted "how the system works", but you've failed to recognize that in the end when it comes down to it, it DOESN'T work. The country NEVER unites behind the "winner" of a crooked process, the winner NEVER has a mandate. The "winner" has a disastrous presidency, and the other party sweeps to power and changes the ground rules of everything once they get it. That's the end result of this sort of shenanigans every time.
Oh man, this is too effing funny. mister "rules are rules" white actually insisting that "rules don't matter" In a Cop Culture, the Bill of Rights Doesn’t Amount to Much That would be mister "the-law-is-the-law". Versus your "The law is merely a suggestion."
No - it would be mister "cops are gods" white. In a Cop Culture, the Bill of Rights Doesn’t Amount to Much If Trump comes in with around 1200 or maybe even 1100, I think he'll get the nomination. But if Cruz pulls off Indiana, snags most of the unpledged delegates in PA, then goes out west and does quite well, and comes in only a couple of hundred delegates down, anything could happen. Hillary will not be indicted. Indictment can only come from the Attorney General. The AG works for Obama. Obama will not indict Hillary. It will never, ever happen. If Cruz succeeds at his game of taking delegates in states that voted for Trump because of the corrupt Republican rules, then Trump may be cheated out of the nomination, but that doesn't mean "anything can happen" at all. It merely means that Hillary will certainly be the next President. At this point, the only chance for Republican victory in the Fall is for Republicans to stop pretending that they can steal the election from Trump without committing suicide, unite behind him and try to beat Hillary. He could. Otherwise, you will have Hillary Clinton and a Democrat Supreme Court, that much is certain. And you will probably have a Democrat Senate also. And then the House won't matter. Hillary will do as she pleases by Executive Order, the Supreme Court will ignore legal objections raised by the House, the Senate will not remove her if a Republican House votes for impeachment, and Republican politicians will be prosecuted for every tax code violation, election law violation and bribe they take - and campaign contributions to Republicans will be influence purchasing in the hands of a Hillary Justice Department and Hillary Court. Two years later, once the Supreme Court has found all Republican voter control efforts to be voter suppression, the Democrats will also take the House. We will have one party rule that will be as dominant and move as swiftly as FDR did. The Republican Party will never get back up, but will continue to exist as a zombie party handcuffed to the Right, unable to get itself back up, but also preventing the Right from reorganizing under a new banner. The price of cheating Trump out of the election is the suicide of the Republican Party. It is madness. And the Republicans may just go ahead and do it. The legalistic arguments Republicans are using to convince insiders that stealing the election is ok reminds one of the "All we've got is cotton, and slaves, and arrogance" scene from Gone With the Wind. I'm Rhett Butler here, telling you a very hard truth. There are not enough Hard Right Conservative Republicans to EVER rule this country. You are maybe 20% of the vote. You cannot win without moderates. Moderates, Center Right and Center Left, have gone for Trump. You've got Trump Democrats in huge numbers, like Reagan Democrats, for the first time since Reagan. If the Hard Right of the Party pisses it all away on a pissant like Cruz, the moderates are going to shift to Democrat or Independent, the Republicans are going to lose it all, and with control of the Supreme Court, the Democrats will change the voting laws to enfranchise the immigrants and make fraud easier, and the Republicans will never, EVER recover from that. This time, because of the Supreme Court hanging in the balance, for the Republicans to play games and deny the winner, Trump, his victory MEANS the absolute death of conservatism as a political force in America. You need moderate allies, and you will lose every single one of them if you do this.
If a candidate in the general election does not get the majority of the electors then the House of Representatives decides who is President . The founders did not trust direct democracy for good reasons. They feared the populist flim flam man's influence on the masses. "If you do not take an interest in the affairs of your government, then you are doomed to live under the rule of fools." Plato
Indictment can only come from the Attorney General. The AG works for Obama. Obama will not indict Hillary. It will never, ever happen. If the FBI recommends indictment, and the AG ignores it, it's going to be hard to explain that away. Obama has played at being a president while enjoying the perks … golf, insanely expensive vacations at tax-payer expense. He has ignored the responsibilities of the job; no plans, no budgets, no alternatives … just finger pointing; making him a complete failure as a president
Or from the government either.
Are you saying, "Well, rules are rules" and everyone will shrug their shoulders and go home? I mean, that's what you're implying. It wouldn't be the 1st time that happened . Actually ,come to think about it ,Lincoln was not leading going into the convention. William H. Seward lead going into the convention. "If you do not take an interest in the affairs of your government, then you are doomed to live under the rule of fools." Plato
Or from the government either. Oh, most DEFINITELY.
The same way a Presidential candidate needs to reach 270 of 538 electoral votes. If one Presidential candidate has 269 electoral votes, and three others have combined 269 electoral votes, what happens? The House of Representatives via state delegation votes who becomes President.
Comments (41 - 108) not displayed.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestNo, the only plausible source of Trump's complaint is that he might not win. Despite having leveraged his marketing prowess to an improbable lead among pledged delegates, he may still fall short, collapsing in the playoffs after a remarkable regular season.
#2. To: no gnu taxes (#0)
explain this cruzites
#3. To: no gnu taxes (#0)
#4. To: BobCeleste (#2)
#5. To: no gnu taxes (#0)
#6. To: no gnu taxes (#0)
"The GOP’s poorly designed nominating process includes more than its share of problems, but is it really unfair to Trump?"
#7. To: no gnu taxes (#0)
Trump has leveraged about 40 percent of the vote into about 49 percent of the delegates.
#8. To: no gnu taxes (#0)
"Few consider it unfair to award the Super Bowl, Stanley Cup, or World Series title to a team that failed to boast the best record in regular season play."
#9. To: BobCeleste (#2)
explain this cruzites
#10. To: redleghunter (#7)
"Cruz, Kasich, and Rubio combined have 862."
#11. To: redleghunter, BobCeleste (#9)
FYI, not everything on the internet is true.
#12. To: misterwhite (#10)
Are you saying we should have three Presidents?
#13. To: no gnu taxes (#0)
"Perhaps the unfairness lies instead with the dizzyingly variable rules ...
#14. To: redleghunter (#12)
"Different process. The parties are nominating candidates for President."
#15. To: misterwhite (#10)
#16. To: no gnu taxes (#15)
"Maybe Cruz, Kasich, and Rubio could run as a "GOP triumvirate" against Clinton."
#17. To: misterwhite (#14)
Then I'll re-phrase. Are you saying we should have three Presidential candidates?
#18. To: misterwhite (#16)
#19. To: no gnu taxes (#15)
Maybe Cruz, Kasich, and Rubio could run as a "GOP triumvirate" against Clinton.
#20. To: redleghunter (#17)
"The GOP is in the nomination process for a Presidential candidate."
#21. To: no gnu taxes (#18)
"And if it goes to a second ballot and beyond, it very well may not be Trump"
#22. To: misterwhite (#21)
So Trump walks into the convention with 1150 delegates, the vast majority of the states and the vast majority of the votes and Rubio ends up with the nomination, just what do you think will happen?
#23. To: misterwhite (#20)
Correct. A Presidential candidate. So why are you combining the delegates from three Presidential candidates?
#24. To: no gnu taxes (#22)
(Edited)
"I'm just saying it could happen, and it won't be breaking any ru rules or laws."
#25. To: misterwhite (#21)
So Trump walks into the convention with 1150 delegates, the vast majority of the states and the vast majority of the votes and Rubio ends up with the nomination, just what do you think will happen?
#26. To: redleghunter (#23)
#27. To: redleghunter (#25)
"It was designed for the party who is nominating a candidate to have a voice and influence in the process."
#28. To: redleghunter (#7)
So I don't see how people call the process unfair.
#29. To: redleghunter (#25)
For example, if a GOP candidate with a plurality of the votes come convention time is indicted of a crime, the party has the mechanism to ensure such a tainted candidate does not get the nomination.
#30. To: redleghunter (#23)
This process should not be so difficult for Republicans and any American to recognize. If in the general election for President no candidate reaches 270 electoral votes what happens? It goes to the House of Representatives.
#31. To: misterwhite (#21)
Are you saying, "Well, rules are rules"
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts
#32. To: Deckard (#31)
(Edited)
"mister "rules are rules" white actually insisting that "rules do don't matter"
#33. To: misterwhite (#32)
That would be mister "the-law-is-the-law".
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts
#34. To: no gnu taxes (#29)
(Edited)
I wonder what the democrats will do if Hillary is indicted.
#35. To: misterwhite, redleghunter (#10)
Are you saying we should have three Presidents?
#36. To: Vicomte13 (#34)
Hillary will not be indicted.
#37. To: Gatlin (#11)
FYI, not everything on the internet is true.
#38. To: misterwhite, redleghunter (#21)
So Trump walks into the convention with 1150 delegates, the vast majority of the states and the vast majority of the votes and Rubio ends up with the nomination, just what do you think will happen?
#39. To: U don't know me (#37)
FYI, not everything on the internet is true.
In fact, even less from the government.
#40. To: misterwhite (#26)
That still doesn't explain why you combined three candidates for the nomination.
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