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Title: Putin sends air defense missiles (S-400) to Syria to deter Turkey
Source: My Way
URL Source: http://apnews.myway.com/article/201 ... a-turkey-plane-125c66371a.html
Published: Nov 25, 2015
Author: Vladimir Isachenkov
Post Date: 2015-11-25 16:27:15 by nativist nationalist
Keywords: None
Views: 371
Comments: 7

Russian President Vladimir Putin on Wednesday ordered state-of-the art air defense missile systems to be deployed at a Russian air base in Syria following the downing of a Russian warplane by Turkey, a move that raised the threat of a military confrontation between the NATO member and Russia.

The S-400 missile systems, which will be sent to the Hemeimeem air base in Syria's coastal province of Latakia, located just about 50 kilometers (30 miles) south of the border with Turkey, are capable of targeting Turkish jets with deadly precision. If Russia shot down a Turkish plane, NATO would be required to intervene.

Turkey shot down a Russian Su-24 bomber Tuesday, saying it crossed into its airspace from Syria despite repeated warnings. One of its two pilots was killed by militants after bailing out, while his crewmate was rescued by Syrian army commandos and delivered in good condition to the Russian base.

Putin said the Russian plane remained in Syria's skies when it was shot down. He described Turkey½2019}s action as a crime and a stab in the back, warning of serious consequences.

On Wednesday, Putin ordered the military to deploy the S-400s to Hemeimeem and took other measures that ½201c}should be sufficient to ensure flight safety.

Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said Wednesday that the Russian missile cruiser Moskva already has moved closer to shore to protect the Russian aircraft flying missions near Syria's border with Turkey with its long-range Fort air defense system.

Shoigu also said that from now on all Russian bombers will be escorted by fighters on their combat missions in Syria. He said that his ministry has severed all contacts with the Turkish military.

Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov, who canceled his planned trip to Turkey after the incident, described the shooting down of the Russian plane as a planned provocation.

He said the Turkish action came after Russian planes successfully targeted the oil infrastructure used by the Islamic State, alleging that Turkey benefited from the oil trade.

Lavrov also said that Turkish territory was used by terrorists to prepare terror attacks in other countries, but offered no details.

He said that Russia has no intention to go to war with Turkey, but added that Moscow will re-consider its ties with Ankara.

The Russian Foreign Ministry already has warned Russians against traveling to Turkey, and some leading Russian tourist agencies suspended the sales of tour packages to Turkey.

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said Wednesday that his country does not wish to escalate tensions with Russia over the downing of the plane.

Speaking at an Organization of Islamic Cooperation economy meeting in Istanbul, Erdogan said that Turkey favors peace, dialogue and diplomacy. He defended his country's move to shoot down the plane saying: no one should expect Turkey to stay silent to border violations or the violation of its rights."

Turkish Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu also sought to ease tensions, saying that Russia is Turkey's "friend and neighbor" and insisting relations cannot be "sacrificed to accidents of communication."

Davutoglu told his party's lawmakers on Wednesday that Turkey didn't know the nationality of the plane that was brought down on Tuesday until Moscow announced it was Russian.

He again defended Turkey's action, saying Russia was warned on several occasions that Turkey would take action in case its border is violated in line with its military rules of engagement.

Davutoglu also said Russia is an "important partner and tops the list of countries with which we have shown great sensitivity in building ties." The Turkish prime minister, however, also criticized Russian and Syrian operations in Syria's Turkmen region, saying there is "not one single" presence of the Islamic State group there. Davutoglu demanded that operations there stop immediately.


Poster Comment:

...Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan...

In Egypt they call him Qerd-ogan. Evidently "Qerd" is Arabic for monkey.

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#1. To: nativist nationalist (#0) (Edited)

Russia is Turkey's "friend and neighbor"

with friends like this who needs enemies, a friend would have made enquiries before perpetrating an aggressive act. We see that now the excuse is we didn't know whose plane it was, so who's might it have been? British or French NATO allies? American? Just maybe, and it's a big maybe, they thought it was Syrian. These turkmen would have been turkish allies. No the excuse doesn't wash, if there were no Daesh there NATO planes wouldn't have been there unless they were overflying the area. The old Ottoman empire has risen its head again, with old thinking.

Putin has been considered this time in his approach, make it plain their weapons are capable of taking down turkish planes at a distance should Turkey interfere with their operations again. One could well understand the presence of a hostile force within 30 miles would be occasion for the Russians to move to eliminate them, and Turkey to be on high alert

paraclete  posted on  2015-11-25   17:50:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: nativist nationalist, paraclete, redleghunter, Pericles (#0) (Edited)

The S-400 missile systems, which will be sent to the Hemeimeem air base in Syria's coastal province of Latakia, located just about 50 kilometers (30 miles) south of the border with Turkey, are capable of targeting Turkish jets with deadly precision. If Russia shot down a Turkish plane, NATO would be required to intervene.

Maybe NATO would have to respond, maybe not. Russia might choose to exploit an ambiguous situation, giving cowardly NATO allies chances to beg off going to war. Russia could try to fracture NATO unity. Also, in the midst of a huge free-for-all of American and Russian manpad missiles floating all over the Mideast from Iraq all the way to Libya, some of those missiles could show up in the hands of the PKK (Kurdish rebels against Turkey) or radical Greek partisans in Cypress, etc. You could have Turkish jets falling out of the sky. That's before you consider the potential havoc if someone uses a manpad missile to down civilian aircraft. The effect on Turkish tourism would be pretty dire. And no one would have much sympathy for Turkey.

A little reporting from the NATO meeting via HotAir:

NATO ambassadors to Turkey: Why didn’t you just escort that Russian plane out of your airspace?

posted at 4:01 pm on November 24, 2015 by Allahpundit

If you’re worried that Turkey’s going to use Article 5 of NATO to drag the U.S. and other western nations into a hot war with Russia, don’t be. Sounds from this response like NATO will fall apart before anyone goes to the mat for the Turks.
NATO ambassadors called on Ankara to show “cool-headedness” on Tuesday following an emergency meeting in Brussels, after Turkey shot down a Russian warplane near the Syrian border, diplomats said.

Diplomats present at the meeting told Reuters that while none of the 28 NATO envoys defended Russia’s actions, many expressed concern that Turkey did not escort the Russian warplane out of its airspace.

On the one hand, this wasn’t the first violation of Turkish airspace lately by a Russian jet. Erdogan’s complained about it to NATO before; NATO’s secretary-general said last month that the frequency and duration of the intrusions made it hard to believe Russia isn’t doing it purposefully. Turkey got tired of asking Russia nicely to stay out — and asking, and asking, as they reportedly warned the pilots of the jet that was brought down today 10 times in five minutes to scram ASAP. (Did Russia actually violate their airspace today, though? Moscow denies it.) On the other hand, the point of Article 5 obviously isn’t to trigger a regional war because a Russian jet en route to a target in Syria strayed a mile into Turkish territory or whatever it was. The paradigm case for Article 5 is hundreds of Russian tanks rolling towards Warsaw or Berlin, not one jet being a little too cute about Russia’s new hegemony in western Syria. Show of hands: Who thinks Europe’s militaries are going to spring into action after a long hiatus from major wars to enforce the integrity of Turkish airspace to the last inch? . . .

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-11-26   2:40:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: TooConservative (#2)

Show of hands: Who thinks Europe’s militaries are going to spring into action after a long hiatus from major wars to enforce the integrity of Turkish airspace to the last inch? . . .

As I said the excuse doesn't wash, there were alternative actions available, the plane was not attacking targets in Turkey and NATO has already shown their response which reads be a little more careful next time. The problem here is that Russia is being a little too successful nailing turkish backed rebels, the turkish plan for greater Turkey isn't going to succeed and the buffer zone isn't going to be established either.

What is the point of giving a warning in a language that cannot be understood, is there any evidence it was made on a frequency the russians were using?. They should have been shouting nhet!

paraclete  posted on  2015-11-26   6:35:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: paraclete, Pericles (#3)

the turkish plan for greater Turkey isn't going to succeed

And this is the primary route for Turkey to begin a neo-Ottoman empire.

The Kurds and the Syrians have sealed the northeast and northwest area of the border with Turkey, leaving only this center region. And that is the region through which all these foreign jihadis penetrate the border, arriving via Turkey. And Turkey certainly could stop them. It pretends it is trying to. But everyone knows otherwise.

It may be that Turkey is the biggest ISIS backer of all, even more than the Saudis/Qataris with their money.

What is the point of giving a warning in a language that cannot be understood, is there any evidence it was made on a frequency the russians were using?

Turkey says it was giving the warnings in English on the "emergency channel". I saw elsewhere the exact phrases being used. However, it was not very pointed in describing what aircraft they were warning off. The Russians could have thought they were talking to someone else. Normally, such warnings to an "unknown" aircraft would include some description of the area, like "unknown aircraft entering eastern Hatay province...". But I haven't found any record that they said anything like that. You have to wonder if the radio on the Turkish planes had a directional antenna so that the signal was transmitted back to the Turkish authorities (so they could record it for their alibi) but that it was never transmitted to the Russian plane. That would be so typical of the Turks, a notoriously sneaky bunch.

In addition, the Turks immediately released -- in less than an hour -- the full radar track of the downed plane, tracking it back to the airbase in Syria. And also the order to fire on the "unknown aircraft" was given directly by the Turkish prime minister. So the same command authority that tracked the aircraft from its launch to the Turkish border and then got permission from the Turkish PM to shoot it down somehow failed to tell the PM that they knew this was a Russian plane? No, it won't do.

There was no "miscommunication", as the Turkish PM claims. He gave the order himself and he was in full communication with the Turkish air force generals who were operating the radar that tracked that Russian plane from takeoff until the PM ordered it shot down.

Lying this lame is only likely to make Vlad even madder. It is an apology of contempt. Or an apology one might make to people you are sure are too stupid to grasp that you shot down their plane deliberately.

I'm wondering if the new Turkish natural gas pipeline deal with Russia will go straight down the tubes now. They also have various Black Sea mutual concerns. Like Turkey's control of the Black Sea straits.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-11-26   7:53:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: TooConservative (#2)

Russia might choose to exploit an ambiguous situation, giving cowardly NATO allies chances to beg off going to war. Russia could try to fracture NATO unity. Also, in the midst of a huge free-for-all of American and Russian manpad missiles floating all over the Mideast from Iraq all the way to Libya, some of those missiles could show up in the hands of the PKK (Kurdish rebels against Turkey) or radical Greek partisans in Cypress, etc. You could have Turkish jets falling out of the sky. That's before you consider the potential havoc if someone uses a manpad missile to down civilian aircraft. The effect on Turkish tourism would be pretty dire. And no one would have much sympathy for Turkey.

I think Putin could reignite the Cyprus Missile Crisis, perhaps with the S-400 this time. Turkey's occupational government on northern Cyprus would be outside the scope of Turkey's NATO guarantees. If he made his move there Obama and Kerry would nut down; while McCain and his South Carolina Mini-Me would go ballistic, but that would just provide some entertainment for the sane people to see.

Non auro, sed ferro, recuperando est patria

nativist nationalist  posted on  2015-11-26   13:03:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: nativist nationalist (#5) (Edited)

I think Putin could reignite the Cyprus Missile Crisis, perhaps with the S-400 this time.

I considered it. But Russia has, due to deals with us about nukes and the Czech/Polish ballistic missile defense (which Obola cancelled), reneged on its deal to supply Iran with the S-300, going back to around 2006. And that was only for the S-300 export version, not the superior S-300 model used by Russia itself. Since then, they have produced the S-400 and still Iran (and other countries) have no S-300s. I don't think that even Belarus has any now since they sold us a prototype S-300 that was stripped of its electronics and other guts back in the Nineties. S-300 was just on the drawing board when the USSR collapsed entirely.

Vlad isn't going to let any NATO power a chance to take apart the S-400 or any of its components.

I'm kinda surprised he's going to risk putting the S-400 on his new Syrian base. He must be very confident of security there and the reliability of his military staff on location. The West would pay a lot to learn some of the S-400's secrets.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-11-26   13:08:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: TooConservative (#6)

The West would pay a lot to learn some of the S-400's secrets

You mean our spy agencies don't already have the plans? Gad Zookes, the Russians have stolen a march again. No, they would be more interested in knowing if they actually work

paraclete  posted on  2015-11-28   20:08:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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