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Title: Putin: Russia will not tolerate such crimes as attack against its Sukhoi-24 plane
Source:
Tass
URL Source: http://tass.ru/en/politics/838825un
Published: Nov 24, 2015
Author: Uncredited
Post Date: 2015-11-24 08:28:10 by cranky
Keywords: None
Views: 10623
Comments: 72
According to the president, the attack against Su-24 plane in Syria goes beyond normal struggle against terrorism, and it is "a stab in Russia’s back" delivered by "terrorism accomplices" SOCHI, November 24. /TASS/. Russia's Sukhoi Su-24 attack aircraft was downed with an air-to-air missile launched from a Turkish F-16 fighter, Russian President Vladimir Putin said Monday. The Russian leader stressed that the Russian Su-24 fighter-bomber was posing no threat to Turkey. "Anyway, our pilots and jet posed no threat to the Turkish Republic. This is obvious. They were conducting an operation against ISIL," Putin said at the meeting with King Abdallah II of Jordan. Putin called the attack a crime and stressed that Russia would not tolerate it. According to the president, the Su-24 plane crash in Syria goes beyond normal struggle against terrorism, and it is "a stab in Russia’s back delivered by terrorist accomplices." "Today’s loss is linked with a stab in our back delivered by terrorism accomplices. I can’t characterize otherwise what has happened today," the Russian leader said. The Russian bomber was shot down over Syria by an air-to-air surface fired from a Turkish F-16 plane when the bomber was at an altitude of 6,000 meters at a distance of 1 km from the Turkish bomber." Putin said. The president said the attack on the Russian jet will have tragic consequences to Russia-Turkey ties. Turkey's military attache in Russia has been summoned to the Russian Defense Ministry. 
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#1. To: cranky, redleghunter, tomder55, sneakypete, Pericles (#0)
Turkey's military attache in Russia has been summoned to the Russian Defense Ministry. NATO's members have also summoned the Turks. I would guess they have some very pointed questions and will demand more evidence than just allegations by Turkey. It was unwise to extend NATO membership to Turkey to begin with. As members, if they start a war with Russia by shooting down their warplanes who did not attack anything or anyone in Turkey, NATO will still be obligated by Article Five to follow Turkey into warfare with Russia. I'm thinking NATO will make it clear they are not starting WW III with Russia even if a Russian plane strayed over the Turkish border, considering that no Turks or Turkish territory was attacked. There is a proportionality to any response.
No. The agreement only requires a member to provide such assistance as it sees fit, when a member is the victim of an armed attack. The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all and consequently they agree that, if such an armed attack occurs, each of them, in exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defence recognised by Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area. Any such armed attack and all measures taken as a result thereof shall immediately be reported to the Security Council. Such measures shall be terminated when the Security Council has taken the measures necessary to restore and maintain international peace and security.
NATO amended its charter to allow offensive operations - the justification for Bosnia and Kosovo intervention. It stopped being a purely defensive alliance since then.
I believe there is no such amendment to the NATO Charter. The NATO Charter only requires a nation to do something when a member nation is subjected to an armed attack, and then only what they determine is necessary. http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/official_texts_17120.htm 04 Apr. 1949 | Last updated: 09 Dec. 2008 13:01
Approved by the Heads of State and Government participating in the meeting of the North Atlantic Council in Washington D.C. "NATO forces must maintain the ability to provide for collective defence while conducting effective non-Article 5 crisis response operations." This enables NATO to act outside of Article 5............
Approved by the Heads of State and Government participating in the meeting of the North Atlantic Council in Washington D.C. "NATO forces must maintain the ability to provide for collective defence while conducting effective non-Article 5 crisis response operations." This enables NATO to act outside of Article 5............ A slightly more complete quote: A concept of an Alliance Force Posture was approved. That is not an amendment to the NATO Charter, which remains unchanged. That does not authorize any armed attack on anyone. It says NATO must maintain the ability to provide for collective defence while conducting effective non-Article 5 crisis response operations. They must train to do the real thing. Approved by the Heads of State and Government participating in the meeting of the North Atlantic Council in Washington D.C. 24 Apr. 1999 | Press Release NAC-S(99) 65 Issued on 24 Apr. 1999 | Last updated: 25 Jun. 2009 12:18 Introduction At their Summit meeting in Washington in April 1999, NATO Heads of State and Government approved the Alliance's new Strategic Concept. [...] The Alliance's Force Posture The Missions of Alliance Military Forces 47. The primary role of Alliance military forces is to protect peace and to guarantee the territorial integrity, political independence and security of member states. The Alliance's forces must therefore be able to deter and defend effectively, to maintain or restore the territorial integrity of Allied nations and - in case of conflict - to terminate war rapidly by making an aggressor reconsider his decision, cease his attack and withdraw. NATO forces must maintain the ability to provide for collective defence while conducting effective non-Article 5 crisis response operations. The 1949 Strategic Concept was to similar effect. This refers to "offensive operations" in a training context, but does not authorize NATO members to go out and start wars. http://www.nato.int/docu/stratdoc/eng/a491128a.pdf NOTE BY THE SECRETARY [...] IV MILITARY MEASURES TO IMPLEMENT DEFENSE CONCEPT Basic Undertakings 7. Over-all defense plans must provide in advance of war emergency, specifically for the following basic undertakings furtherance of the common objective to defend the North Atlantic area. The successful conduct of these undertakings should be assured by close coordination of military action as set forth in over-all plans. a. Insure the ability to carry out strategic bombing including the prompt delivery of the atomic bomb. This is primarily a U.S. responsibility assisted as practicable by other nations. b. Arrest and counter as soon as practicable the enemy offensives against North Atlantic Treaty powers by all means available, including air, naval, land and psychological operations. Initially, the hard core of ground forces will come from the European nations. Other nations will give aid with the least possible delay and in accordance with over-all plans. c. Neutralize as soon as practicable enemy air operations against North Atlantic Treaty powers. In this undertaking the European nations should initially provide the bulk of the tactical air support and air defense, other nations aiding with the least possible delay in accordance with over-all plans. d. Secure and control sea and air lines of communication and ports and harbors, essential to the implementation of common defense plans. The defense and control of sea and air LOC’s will be performed through common cooperation in accordance with each nation’s capabilities and agreed responsibilities. In this regard it is recognized that the United States and United Kingdom will be primarily responsible for the organization and control of ocean lines of communication. Other nations will secure and maintain their own harbor defenses and coastal LOC’s and participate in the organization and control of vital LOC’s to their territories as may be indicated in over-all plans. e. Secure, maintain and defend such main support areas, air bases, naval bases and other facilities as are essential to the successful accomplishment of the basic undertaking. These undertakings will be a responsibility of the nations having sovereignty over these essential bases, area and facilities, aided as necessary and to the extent set forth in collective defense plans. f. Mobilize and expand the over-all power of the Treaty nations in accordance with their planned contribution to later offensive operations designed to maintain security of the North Atlantic Treaty area.
#63. To: nolu chan, TooConservative, cranky, redleghunter, tomder55, sneakypete, A Pole (#62)
The 1999 amendment to the NATO charter is what allowed NATO to wage offensive war in Libya without unanimous participation (and what justified Kosovo).
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest The president said the attack on the Russian jet will have tragic consequences to Russia-Turkey ties.
#27. To: TooConservative, cranky, redleghunter, tomder55, sneakypete, Pericles (#1)
It was unwise to extend NATO membership to Turkey to begin with. As members, if they start a war with Russia by shooting down their warplanes who did not attack anything or anyone in Turkey, NATO will still be obligated by Article Five to follow Turkey into warfare with Russia.
Article 5
#45. To: nolu chan, TooConservative, cranky, redleghunter, tomder55, sneakypete, A Pole (#27)
#51. To: Pericles, TooConservative, cranky, redleghunter, tomder55, sneakypete, A Pole (#45)
NATO amended its charter to allow offensive operations - the justification for Bosnia and Kosovo intervention.
The North Atlantic Treaty
Washington D.C. - 4 April 1949
#56. To: nolu chan, ooConservative, cranky, redleghunter, tomder55, sneakypete, A Pole (#51)
http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/official_texts_27433.htm
#62. To: Pericles, TooConservative, cranky, redleghunter, tomder55, sneakypete, A Pole (#56)
[Pericles #45] NATO amended its charter to allow offensive operations - the justification for Bosnia and Kosovo intervention.
http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/official_texts_27433.htm
The Alliance's forces must therefore be able to deter and defend effectively, to maintain or restore the territorial integrity of Allied nations and - in case of conflict - to terminate war rapidly by making an aggressor reconsider his decision, cease his attack and withdraw. NATO forces must maintain the ability to provide for collective defence while conducting effective non-Article 5 crisis response operations.
The Alliance's Strategic Concept
M.C.3/2
28 November 1949
Pages 19 - 25, incl.
to the
NORTH ATLANTIC MILITARY COMMITTEE
on
THE STRATEGIC CONCEPT FOR THE DEFENSE OF THE NORTH
ATLANTIC AREA
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