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Economy
See other Economy Articles

Title: Stephen Hawking Says We Should Really Be Scared Of Capitalism, Not Robots
Source: Huffington Post
URL Source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry ... obots_5616c20ce4b0dbb8000d9f15
Published: Oct 9, 2015
Author: Alexander C. Kaufman
Post Date: 2015-10-09 04:41:39 by Willie Green
Keywords: None
Views: 3385
Comments: 47

"If machines produce everything we need, the outcome will depend on how things are distributed."

Machines won't bring about the economic robot apocalypse -- but greedy humans will, according to physicist Stephen Hawking.

In a Reddit Ask Me Anything session on Thursday, the scientist predicted that economic inequality will skyrocket as more jobs become automated and the rich owners of machines refuse to share their fast-proliferating wealth.

If machines produce everything we need, the outcome will depend on how things are distributed. Everyone can enjoy a life of luxurious leisure if the machine-produced wealth is shared, or most people can end up miserably poor if the machine-owners successfully lobby against wealth redistribution. So far, the trend seems to be toward the second option, with technology driving ever-increasing inequality.

Essentially, machine owners will become the bourgeoisie of a new era, in which the corporations they own won't provide jobs to actual human workers.

As it is, the chasm between the super rich and the rest is growing. For starters, capital -- such as stocks or property -- accrues value at a much faster rate than the actual economy grows, according to the French economist Thomas Piketty. The wealth of the rich multiplies faster than wages increase, and the working class can never even catch up.

But if Hawking is right, the problem won't be about catching up. It'll be a struggle to even inch past the starting line.  


Poster Comment:

The rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

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TopPage UpFull ThreadPage DownBottom/Latest

#1. To: Willie Green (#0)

The American Dream, 1950: I'm going to work hard, and one day I'm gonna be rich, too.

The American Dream, 2015: How can I get the government to force that rich guy into giving me his money?

misterwhite  posted on  2015-10-09   8:14:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: misterwhite (#1)

Screw the rich guy... He's the Free Traitor who downsized & outsourced the American Dream to Third World nations, and undermined what was left with cheap H1-B & illegal immigrant labor.

Willie Green  posted on  2015-10-09   8:50:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Willie Green (#0)

He should have noted "crony capitalism" or as we know it in the real world socialism/communism/fascism. We haven't see real capitalism in my life time.

The best government is the one that does no harm and just keeps chaos at bay.

Justified  posted on  2015-10-09   10:31:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Willie Green (#2)

"Screw the rich guy... He's the Free Traitor who downsized & outsourced the American Dream to Third World nations, and undermined what was left with cheap H1-B & illegal immigrant labor."

He did it because of US unions, federal taxes, EPA and OSHA regulations, our out-of-control tort legal system, minimum wage laws, anti-discrimination laws, affirmative action, cost of ADA, cost of providing healthcare, cost of paid family leave, and a hundred other obstacles that liberals like you have placed in their way.

Fine. Pass your stupid laws and regulations if it makes you feel like you're "doing something" for the worker. But wave goodbye to American jobs.

Now you want to tax their accumulated wealth? Then prepare to wave goodbye to "the rich" as they leave the US. As they did in France.

misterwhite  posted on  2015-10-09   10:35:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: misterwhite (#4)

Then prepare to wave goodbye to "the rich" as they leave the US.

Good riddance.

Willie Green  posted on  2015-10-09   10:54:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Willie Green (#5)

Your ideals foster dependent sheep... and as the wealth leaves, it will leave you holding the sympathy bag. Have fun with them.

I'm the infidel... Allah warned you about. كافر المسلح

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-10-09   11:15:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: GrandIsland (#6)

"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money."
-- Margaret Thatcher

misterwhite  posted on  2015-10-09   11:22:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: misterwhite (#7)

To Willie, the definition of sympathy is spending another persons money to feel good about yourself.

I'm the infidel... Allah warned you about. كافر المسلح

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-10-09   11:25:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: GrandIsland (#8)

"To Willie, the definition of sympathy is spending another persons money to feel good about yourself."

He thinks the "income pie" is a fixed size, and if one person has a big slice that means the rest of us have less. Meaning, the only solution is to take from the big slice and give it to the rest.

I can't think of anything more unjust and more un-American than that.

misterwhite  posted on  2015-10-09   11:41:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: misterwhite (#9)

No, when the pie's big enough for everybody, it's best to slice it so everybody gets a piece instead of letting a couple people hog the whole thing & leave nothing but crumbs for everybody else.

Willie Green  posted on  2015-10-09   11:57:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: Willie Green (#10)

No, when the pie's big enough for everybody, it's best to slice it so everybody gets a piece instead of letting a couple people hog the whole thing & leave nothing but crumbs for everybody else.

Then why can people from 3rd world nations come here not speak a lick of English and become very successful without cheating or using pappa's wealth?

If you want a piece of the pie you need to get your sorry lazy ass up and go get a slice or two. Stop making excuses and carve out a piece for you and your family.

If you are unable to get there because you are truly disabled then there are millions of charities and churches willing to step in and help. I know its private and you hate private anything. If it isn't government then it ain't shit, right!

Justified  posted on  2015-10-09   12:06:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: Justified (#11)

Then why can people from 3rd world nations come here not speak a lick of English and become very successful without cheating or using pappa's wealth?

If they can do that, then there's no need to lower our taxes or reduce our regulations.

Willie Green  posted on  2015-10-09   12:15:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: Willie Green (#10)

No, when the pie's big enough for everybody, it's best to slice it so everybody gets a piece instead of letting a couple people hog the whole thing & leave nothing but crumbs for everybody else.

This country was founded on FREEDOM & LIBERTY... and it's my right to have the FREEDOM to make my pie bigger than yours. Why are you so opposed to freedom and what we are founded on? Is it because your level of sympathy exceeds the level of resources to achieve it... so you have to steal resources that isn't yours?

I'm the infidel... Allah warned you about. كافر المسلح

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-10-09   12:23:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: Willie Green (#12)

Then why can people from 3rd world nations come here not speak a lick of English and become very successful without cheating or using pappa's wealth?

If they can do that, then there's no need to lower our taxes or reduce our regulations.

Im not sure what you are talking about?

If a 3rd world person can be successful why can't born and raised Americans? Are we inferior to other people around the world?

What I do not want from my government is for it to make one group a special group above all others. Its communist to do so! Either we are inclusive or we are exclusive. To give only special groups legal abilities to have special group status over others is unGodly, unAmerican and communist!

Justified  posted on  2015-10-09   12:33:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: Willie Green (#10)

"No, when the pie's big enough for everybody"

You don't get it. There is no pie. The rich have no affect on your ability to make money.

misterwhite  posted on  2015-10-09   14:13:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: misterwhite (#4)

Fine. Pass your stupid laws and regulations if it makes you feel like you're "doing something" for the worker. But wave goodbye to American jobs.

Now you want to tax their accumulated wealth? Then prepare to wave goodbye to "the rich" as they leave the US. As they did in France.

Agreed.

The only things valued in America now is our ideas and workmanship.

Once the idea is established and the process decided, the wealthy owner has the ability (and incentive - thank you Congress!) to move the production to somewhere more convenient.

The quality aspect can be contained in several ways, and one way is to tell the consumer that they have little choice since all the other competing products are coming from the same region, so "suck it". If it works for Apple, it can work for everyone.

The problem isn't wealth accumulation, it is the laws that and regulations that allow the wealthy to shift where the workforce is.

The Germans know what is really going on -

“Most business models for low-skilled workers will only be profitable if the wage for unskilled labour falls,” he said.

Hans-Werner Sinn, president of Ifo Institute in Munich, Germany

TheFireBert  posted on  2015-10-09   14:14:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: Justified (#14)

To give only special groups legal abilities to have special group status over others is unGodly, unAmerican and communist!

You mean like the corporate welfare, subsidies, tax breaks and regulatory waivers arranged by the GOP for special interests?

Willie Green  posted on  2015-10-09   14:23:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: misterwhite (#15)

The rich have no affect on your ability to make money.

Of course they do. They use their money to corrupt the political process and rig the economic conditions in their favor.

Willie Green  posted on  2015-10-09   14:26:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: Willie Green (#17)

You mean like the corporate welfare, subsidies, tax breaks and regulatory waivers arranged by the GOP for special interests?

News flash genius, BOTH parties engage in cronyism.

Only someone blind or foolish believes otherwise.

Dead Culture Watch  posted on  2015-10-09   14:46:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: Willie Green (#18)

"They use their money to corrupt the political process and rig the economic conditions in their favor."

Sure. But if they use their money to corrupt the political process and rig the economic conditions by arranging for corporate welfare, subsidies, tax breaks and regulatory waivers in their favor, that doesn't affect my earning potential.

misterwhite  posted on  2015-10-09   15:26:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: TheFireBert (#16)

"it is the laws that and regulations that allow the wealthy to shift where the workforce is."

If they didn't, we'd have more working here. But the prices we would pay for goods previously imported would be 2-5 times what we're paying now.

Personally, I don't want to pay double for the same products just so some union thug can earn $80 an hour in salary and benefits and retire at 55.

misterwhite  posted on  2015-10-09   15:32:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Willie Green (#17)

You mean like the corporate welfare, subsidies, tax breaks and regulatory waivers arranged by

dims and pubs. Dims have owned the house and senate as long as the pubs have and guess what. Dims don't knock it out just like pubs dont knock out abortion. Its all talk to keep sheeple voting for them.

BTW Unions are a corporations just as much as GM or Apple.

Also corporations are not people so there is no reason for them to pay taxes unless you are looking to soak the sheeple without them knowing it.

Your understanding of taxes and economics come straight from the communist hand book. People are the only ones to create wealth so they are the only ones that can pay taxes. If you tax a corporations you are only taxing those that consume their product or service. Every time you losers try to stick the rich with your tax bill they laugh at your stupid asses. They just payoff your demoncrat congressman and get a loophole made while they raise tax on everyone else.

Justified  posted on  2015-10-09   17:09:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: misterwhite (#21)

But the prices we would pay for goods previously imported would be 2-5 times what we're paying now.

That's OK because we'd be making more money too and could afford it.

"The poor get richer and the rich get poorer" --- has a nice ring to it, don'tcha think!

Willie Green  posted on  2015-10-09   17:12:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: Justified (#22)

BTW Unions are a corporations just as much as GM or Apple.

No they're not. Unlike GM or Apple, labor unions are nonprofit organizations.

Willie Green  posted on  2015-10-09   17:29:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: Willie Green (#24)

Bull crap unions are a business. Just like any of those evil corporations. With all the special breaks those evil corps get. Denial is not just a river in Egypt.

Justified  posted on  2015-10-09   18:38:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: Willie Green, Justified (#12)

Then why can people from 3rd world nations come here not speak a lick of English and become very successful without cheating or using pappa's wealth? If they can do that, then there's no need to lower our taxes or reduce our regulations.

If they can do that, then there's no need to lower our taxes or reduce our regulations.

If they can do that why can't all those born here do it? Willie Boy, you are a master of the flawed, often contradictory agruments.

потому что Бог хочет это тот путь

SOSO  posted on  2015-10-09   19:13:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: Willie Green, Justified, All (#24)

..... labor unions are nonprofit organizations.

Bwahahahahahahahahaha.... Stop it. Please, Willie. You are killing me. Bwahahahahahahahahahahaha........................................

потому что Бог хочет это тот путь

SOSO  posted on  2015-10-09   19:14:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: Willie Green, misterwhite, All (#10)

No, when the pie's big enough for everybody, it's best to slice it so everybody gets a piece instead of letting a couple people hog the whole thing & leave nothing but crumbs for everybody else.

A couple of serious questiona for you, Willie. Who do you think has created the current system, makes AND enforces the laws and rules, and, has the power to change the system? Do you thinjk that these people have any real interest in changing the system? Thanks in advance for your best reasoned and supported, honest response.

потому что Бог хочет это тот путь

SOSO  posted on  2015-10-09   19:22:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: SOSO (#28)

Over the years, business/corporate lobbyists have had the most corrupting influence over the "system"... afterall, they have the most money to do so...
Reform legislation favoring labor, health, safety and environmental interests only gets passed in response to public outrage over some disaster.

Willie Green  posted on  2015-10-09   21:15:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: Willie Green (#29)

Over the years, business/corporate lobbyists have had the most corrupting influence over the "system"... afterall, they have the most money to do so...

Thanks but how about answering the questions I aksed. I'll repeat them for you:

Who do you think has created the current system, makes AND enforces the laws and rules, and, has the power to change the rule and laws?

Do you think that these people have any real interest in changing the system, laws, rules, etc.?

потому что Бог хочет это тот путь

SOSO  posted on  2015-10-09   21:21:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: Willie Green (#29)

Over the years, business/corporate lobbyists have had the most corrupting influence over the "system"... afterall, they have the most money to do so...

Did you deliberately leave unions of your hit list or just forgot about them?

потому что Бог хочет это тот путь

SOSO  posted on  2015-10-09   21:23:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: Willie Green (#0)

If machines produce everything we need, the outcome will depend on how things are distributed. Everyone can enjoy a life of luxurious leisure if the machine-produced wealth is shared, or most people can end up miserably poor if the machine-owners successfully lobby against wealth redistribution. So far, the trend seems to be toward the second option, with technology driving ever-increasing inequality.

Hawking has a lot more faith in robotic machinery than I do in Stephan Hawking.

rlk  posted on  2015-10-09   22:02:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: rlk (#32)

He is using imagined extreme case to extract the underlying mechanism. Common method in science.

A Pole  posted on  2015-10-10   3:28:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: SOSO (#31)

Did you deliberately leave unions of your hit list or just forgot about them?

No, I did not forget about them. The legislative influence of labor unions and other nonprofit organizations is implied in the second paragraph of my response:

Reform legislation favoring labor, health, safety and environmental interests only gets passed in response to public outrage over some disaster.
Of course, the corporate/business lobbyists resent such reform legislation and devote much of their effort & money toward demonizing and mischaracterizing the organizations proposing the reforms.

But you asked who created the system, and I told you. The power of Corporate and Union lobbyists did not evolve in tandem. Business interests began vying for political favors and government contracts almost the instant our nation was founded. Labor unions and their reforms didn't begin to emerge on a national scale until a century later, after the Civil War. That's when the federal civil service was established to displace the corrupt political "spoils" system of government employment. And in the private sector, national labor unions gained support in response to the squalid working/living conditions generated by the excesses of the "Robber Barons" and the Industrial Revolution.

Willie Green  posted on  2015-10-10   4:51:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: SOSO (#31)

Did you deliberately leave unions of your hit list or just forgot about them?

Selective memory loss...

Vegetarians eat vegetables. Beware of humanitarians!

CZ82  posted on  2015-10-10   6:51:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: Willie Green (#34)

The power of Corporate and Union lobbyists did not evolve in tandem. Business interests began vying for political favors and government contracts almost the instant our nation was founded. Labor unions and their reforms didn't begin to emerge on a national scale until a century later, after the Civil War.

So what? The U.S. tax code didn't really get written until the start of the 1920s and then just accelerated from then on. THe Unions have had an extemely strong hand in both Fed and state elections for decades upon decades now.

I find that you are a very intellectually dishonest person. The corporate and union lobbyist certainly have sway with the legislative process that actually put the laws into words but it is only the legislators themself that can actually enact laws and only elected officials can enforce the laws. B

oth REP and DRat elected oficials owe their soul, and personal finacnial fortunes, to those that put up the money that funds their election campaigns (which almost all used to fund personal life style purposes). It is the people the We The People put into those offices that actually make and enforce the laws and for the most part it is those same people that are direct benficiaries of the laws that that pass and enforce.

It may be simplistic to say that the Unions (including the various lawyer associations) own the DRat party but it is substantially true. It may be simplistic to say the big corporations (including the Chamber of Commerce) own the REP party but that truly is an over simplification. Many, many DRats get very big dollars from the corporate sector and have for decades (including your beloved Clintons).

You are truly delusional to think that the people who most benefit from the current laws - more importantly how they are enforced - namely Congress and POTUS, are going to change the rules to their detriment. And even more delusional to think that the DRat planation slaves or those John Q Public that are beholden to REP largess are going to vote for someone else that would take away the crumbs and scraps of goodies government dribbles down to them.

For all the BS and kabuki thearter coming out of DC the only question in doubt is just how much and how fast the politicians will continue to rape the middle classes and continue to enslave the lower classes. They and the 1% will never be forced to give up a dime for the cause.

потому что Бог хочет это тот путь

SOSO  posted on  2015-10-10   15:48:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: SOSO (#36)

I find that you are a very intellectually dishonest person. (including your beloved Clintons).

I'm actually an extremely intolerant America-First! Buchananite who despises the Klintons just as much as I despise the open borders Free Traitors, neocons & KKK born-again bigots. And because of that, I have no problems telling you that you can take your false accusations and shove them where the sun doesn't shine.

Willie Green  posted on  2015-10-10   16:15:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: Willie Green (#37)

Buchananite who despises the Klintons just as much as I despise the open borders Free Traitors, neocons & KKK born-again bigots.

But yet have such compassion and tolerance for the Unions, Greenies, sanctuary cities, and, all other politically correct Nazis. So shove it right back. You are an extremeist leftist loon that has no sense of balance and less ability for critical analytical thinking. But I acknowledge your ability to blindly and obediently cite progressive, leftist propaganda without a thought like der godt little Nazi you are.

потому что Бог хочет это тот путь

SOSO  posted on  2015-10-10   16:26:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: misterwhite (#21)

Personally, I don't want to pay double for the same products just so some union thug can earn $80 an hour in salary and benefits and retire at 55.

We are still on the same page here.

I figure prices might jump if businesses were given less incentive to move, but many *future* benefits might outweigh the increased costs.

For one, wages could rise to meet the decrease in global competition for potential jobs given to American workers. That in itself would raise prices short term, but many would agree that the market could stabilize quickly given the consumer's want for cheaper goods. This was always a market feature. The current atmosphere for greed plus the easy availability of cheaper workers abroad and dirt cheap shipping have allowed companies to rake in out-sized profits at the expense of the American worker.

With rising availability of jobs is the chance for greater economic driven wealth from the bottom up. The current system is well designed to move money from the bottom to the top, but intentionally rigged to keep the money at the top.

Congress doesn't just have the power to prevent this; it has moved to keep the system in place. Without Congress' meddling, much of the wealth would have remained onshore. Congress is the one that made the hole in the bucket, with the bucket being the U.S. economy, and every year Congress goes back to that bucket to see which regulation, law, export control, or other bug it can rig to make that hole wider. Congress has also strengthened the positions of the unions into a force to be reckoned with. Whenever you have a force of taxpayer fed largess that cannot be removed due to union rules and protection, no matter the well intended reasons, it is Congress who is to blame. I didn't see the right to un-gainfully employed anywhere in the Bill of Rights.

TheFireBert  posted on  2015-10-13   22:55:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: Willie Green (#29)

Reform legislation favoring labor, health, safety and environmental interests only gets passed in response to public outrage over some disaster.

"Reform legislation hindering labor, health, safety and environmental interests only gets passed in response to public outrage over some disaster."

FTFY

I haven't seen any *reform* legislature in my lifetime that has done much good for anyone here. In fact, my dad always said he didn't see anything good come out of the one party system we have had for the last 80+ years, social rights reform aside.

TheFireBert  posted on  2015-10-13   23:04:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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