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Bang / Guns
See other Bang / Guns Articles

Title: Letter: Put all gun owners in a well-regulated militia
Source: Salt Lake Tribune
URL Source: [None]
Published: Oct 5, 2015
Author: Robert Hammer
Post Date: 2015-10-05 12:40:40 by tpaine
Keywords: None
Views: 5125
Comments: 44

Letter: Put all gun owners in a well-regulated militia

Here's a completely constitutional gun-control measure Congress should consider: Establish a robust national militia, but specify that every gun owner become a member. Failure to register with the militia should result in serious jail time.

In the obvious interest of knowing the quantity and quality of arms available to the militia's purposes, all members should be required to inventory all of their personal arms. Failure to do so should also warrant significant jail time.

In the equally obvious interest of ensuring that these arms might be deployed in effective defense of the security of our free state, militia members should be required to participate in regular, highly disciplined training. Here again, failure to participate should earn offenders ample time behind bars to ponder the deficiencies of their unpatriotic souls.

Would this eradicate gun violence from our society? Of course not. But it would bring desperately needed regulation to bear. Our beloved 2nd Amendment clearly stipulates that the primary purpose of the right to keep and bear arms is in support of a "well regulated" militia, and Article I, Section 8, gives Congress the power to regulate the hell out of those keeping and bearing in that capacity.

Robert Hammer


Poster Comment:

I'm surprised Hillary hasn't picked up on this oh so clever idea. Theoretically, I suppose Congress could pass such a bill, but I doubt even a liberal SCOTUS would agree that such an obvious 'end around' the intent of the 2nd would pass constitutional muster..

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 20.

#18. To: tpaine (#0)

Letter: Put all gun owners in a well-regulated militia

Here's a completely constitutional gun-control measure Congress should consider: Establish a robust national militia, but specify that every gun owner become a member. Failure to register with the militia should result in serious jail time.

In the obvious interest of knowing the quantity and quality of arms available to the militia's purposes, all members should be required to inventory all of their personal arms. Failure to do so should also warrant significant jail time.

In the equally obvious interest of ensuring that these arms might be deployed in effective defense of the security of our free state, militia members should be required to participate in regular, highly disciplined training. Here again, failure to participate should earn offenders ample time behind bars to ponder the deficiencies of their unpatriotic souls.

Would this eradicate gun violence from our society? Of course not. But it would bring desperately needed regulation to bear. Our beloved 2nd Amendment clearly stipulates that the primary purpose of the right to keep and bear arms is in support of a "well regulated" militia, and Article I, Section 8, gives Congress the power to regulate the hell out of those keeping and bearing in that capacity.

Robert Hammer

It would be helpful if the author knew the meaning of "well regulated" and had consulted 10 U.S.C. 311 to learn that, "The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard."

Nobody registers with the militia as they are automatically in the militia per statute.

Moreover, it is unconstitutional to enact any form of state or federal law that conflicts with the constitutional provision, "the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

http://www.constitution.org/cons/wellregu.htm

The meaning of the phrase "well-regulated" in the 2nd amendment

From: Brian T. Halonen

The following are taken from the Oxford English Dictionary, and bracket in time the writing of the 2nd amendment:

1709: "If a liberal Education has formed in us well-regulated Appetites and worthy Inclinations."

1714: "The practice of all well-regulated courts of justice in the world."

1812: "The equation of time ... is the adjustment of the difference of time as shown by a well-regulated clock and a true sun dial."

1848: "A remissness for which I am sure every well-regulated person will blame the Mayor."

1862: "It appeared to her well-regulated mind, like a clandestine proceeding."

1894: "The newspaper, a never wanting adjunct to every well-regulated American embryo city."

The phrase "well-regulated" was in common use long before 1789, and remained so for a century thereafter. It referred to the property of something being in proper working order. Something that was well-regulated was calibrated correctly, functioning as expected. Establishing government oversight of the people's arms was not only not the intent in using the phrase in the 2nd amendment, it was precisely to render the government powerless to do so that the founders wrote it.

http://law.justia.com/codes/us/2012/title-10/subtitle-a/part-i/chapter-13/section-311/

THE MILITIA - 10 U.S.C. § 311 (2012)

§311. Militia: composition and classes

(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.

(b) The classes of the militia are—

(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and

(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.

(Aug. 10, 1956, ch. 1041, 70A Stat. 14; Pub. L. 85–861, §1(7), Sept. 2, 1958, 72 Stat. 1439; Pub. L. 103–160, div. A, title V, §524(a), Nov. 30, 1993, 107 Stat. 1656.)

= = = = =

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state

The Amendment refers to the security of a state, not the United States.

Madison, Federalist 46, re the Militia

The only refuge left for those who prophesy the downfall of the State governments is the visionary supposition that the federal government may previously accumulate a military force for the projects of ambition. The reasonings contained in these papers must have been employed to little purpose indeed, if it could be necessary now to disprove the reality of this danger. That the people and the States should, for a sufficient period of time, elect an uninterupted succession of men ready to betray both; that the traitors should, throughout this period, uniformly and systematically pursue some fixed plan for the extension of the military establishment; that the governments and the people of the States should silently and patiently behold the gathering storm, and continue to supply the materials, until it should be prepared to burst on their own heads, must appear to every one more like the incoherent dreams of a delirious jealousy, or the misjudged exaggerations of a counterfeit zeal, than like the sober apprehensions of genuine patriotism. Extravagant as the supposition is, let it however be made. Let a regular army, fully equal to the resources of the country, be formed; and let it be entirely at the devotion of the federal government; still it would not be going too far to say, that the State governments, with the people on their side, would be able to repel the danger. The highest number to which, according to the best computation, a standing army can be carried in any country, does not exceed one hundredth part of the whole number of souls; or one twenty-fifth part of the number able to bear arms. This proportion would not yield, in the United States, an army of more than twenty-five or thirty thousand men. To these would be opposed a militia amounting to near half a million of citizens with arms in their hands, officered by men chosen from among themselves, fighting for their common liberties, and united and conducted by governments possessing their affections and confidence. It may well be doubted, whether a militia thus circumstanced could ever be conquered by such a proportion of regular troops. Those who are best acquainted with the last successful resistance of this country against the British arms, will be most inclined to deny the possibility of it. Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation, the existence of subordinate governments, to which the people are attached, and by which the militia officers are appointed, forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition, more insurmountable than any which a simple government of any form can admit of. Notwithstanding the military establishments in the several kingdoms of Europe, which are carried as far as the public resources will bear, the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms. And it is not certain, that with this aid alone they would not be able to shake off their yokes. But were the people to possess the additional advantages of local governments chosen by themselves, who could collect the national will and direct the national force, and of officers appointed out of the militia, by these governments, and attached both to them and to the militia, it may be affirmed with the greatest assurance, that the throne of every tyranny in Europe would be speedily overturned in spite of the legions which surround it. Let us not insult the free and gallant citizens of America with the suspicion, that they would be less able to defend the rights of which they would be in actual possession, than the debased subjects of arbitrary power would be to rescue theirs from the hands of their oppressors. Let us rather no longer insult them with the supposition that they can ever reduce themselves to the necessity of making the experiment, by a blind and tame submission to the long train of insidious measures which must precede and produce it.

nolu chan  posted on  2015-10-05   23:39:20 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: nolu chan, misterwhite, Y'ALL (#18)

Madison, Federalist 46, re the Militia

The only refuge left for those who prophesy the downfall of the State governments is the visionary supposition that the federal government may previously accumulate a military force for the projects of ambition. The reasonings contained in these papers must have been employed to little purpose indeed, if it could be necessary now to disprove the reality of this danger.

That the people and the States should, for a sufficient period of time, elect an uninterupted succession of men ready to betray both; that the traitors should, throughout this period, uniformly and systematically pursue some fixed plan for the extension of the military establishment; that the governments and the people of the States should silently and patiently behold the gathering storm, and continue to supply the materials, until it should be prepared to burst on their own heads, must appear to every one more like the incoherent dreams of a delirious jealousy, or the misjudged exaggerations of a counterfeit zeal, than like the sober apprehensions of genuine patriotism.

Extravagant as the supposition is, let it however be made. Let a regular army, fully equal to the resources of the country, be formed; and let it be entirely at the devotion of the federal government; still it would not be going too far to say, that the State governments, with the people on their side, would be able to repel the danger.

Madison was prescient, as we are presently living those "incoherent dreams", wherein "the people and the States should, for a sufficient period of time, elect an uninterupted succession of men ready to betray both"...

Thus we see the need for a citizen's militia.

-- Misterwhite? - Where do you stand?

tpaine  posted on  2015-10-06   0:41:06 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: tpaine, TooConservative (#19)

wherein "the people and the States should, for a sufficient period of time, elect an uninterupted succession of men ready to betray both"...

You are getting to sound as optimistic about our future as I am.

SOSO  posted on  2015-10-06   0:49:26 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 20.

#21. To: SOSO (#20)

You are getting to sound as optimistic about our future as I am.

I lost a lot of optimism back in Nov,'63, when the only democrat I ever voted for was killed by a magic bullet.

tpaine  posted on  2015-10-06 00:56:52 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 20.

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