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Religion
See other Religion Articles

Title: Kim Davis: The Guts of a Convert
Source: First Things
URL Source: http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/fi ... im-davis-the-guts-of-a-convert
Published: Sep 8, 2015
Author: Luma Simms
Post Date: 2015-09-08 16:21:18 by redleghunter
Ping List: *Religious History and Issues*     Subscribe to *Religious History and Issues*
Keywords: None
Views: 1749
Comments: 21

Kim Davis may not have a legal leg to stand on (see here, and here). But I think some Christians are moving too quickly to critique her situation on a purely legal basis.

We are Christians first, before we are Americans. So before we start talking about whether this is a good religious liberty case, or not, before we start distancing our educated selves from her simple faith, and before we take to the internet to show the liberal gestapo that we really are for the “rule of law” and that Kim Davis is a simpleton of a Christian who should have resigned before embarrassing us Christians—let's just step back from this fog and think with a faithful mind.

Maybe it's because I live out here in Arizona, away from power elites, or maybe it's because I am a recent convert to Catholicism that I find myself empathizing with Kim Davis. We who have been Christians of one stripe or another for our entire lives underestimate the power of conversion. But this is exactly what God used in the first few centuries to build his Church and set the world on fire for Jesus Christ.

Kim Davis is acting upon her conscience, which informs her that participation directly (signing marriage licenses) or indirectly (allowing her staff to sign marriage licenses) in a sinful act (men marrying men and women marrying women) is a sin. The Catechism of the Catholic Church paragraph 1778, quoting John Henry Cardinal Newman says:

Conscience is a law of the mind; yet [Christians] would not grant that it is nothing more; I mean that it was not a dictate nor conveyed the notion of responsibility, of duty, of a threat and a promise . . . [Conscience] is a messenger of him, who, both in nature and in grace, speaks to us behind a veil, and teaches and rules us by his representatives. Conscience is the aboriginal Vicar of Christ.

I do not know Ms. Davis's ecclesial affiliation, but it is likely that she owes a heritage to Martin Luther, whose career and legacy pivoted on his conviction that, “to go against conscience is neither right nor safe. Here I stand, I can do no other, so help me God.”

The second paragraph of Dignitatis Humanae states that every human person has a right to religious freedom, and that this right is founded upon the dignity of the human person, and this dignity is known to us “through the revealed word of God and by reason itself.”

This freedom means that all men are to be immune from coercion on the part of individuals or of social groups and of any human power, in such wise that no one is to be forced to act in a manner contrary to his own beliefs, whether privately or publicly, whether alone or in association with others, within due limits.

We can certainly explore the meaning of the phrase “within due limits,” but it doesn't take much Christian thinking to see how Kim Davis can believe herself to be acting in accordance with God's moral law which is now written on her heart as a convert.

The reality is that Kim Davis was not premeditating any legal machinations. Kim Davis is being driven by her conversion, by her zeal and love for God. Her awakening to her past sinful life coupled with her present desire to live in obedience to every jot and tittle should drive us to say “thank you Jesus for the witness to faith,” rather than wishing she would just offer a little incense to Caesar and go back to obscurity already.

Luma Simms is the author of Gospel Amnesia.


Poster Comment:

A Religious conscience piece from a recent convert to Catholicism. Several articles/posts at LF addressed the legal aspects to Davis' actions/inactions. This piece discusses the view from a Christian conscience perspective. So for those who just read the title of an article and then post, you won't see my poster comments:)Subscribe to *Religious History and Issues*

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#1. To: redleghunter (#0)

You know, I agree with this. It's the better answer.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-09-08   16:32:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: Vicomte13 (#1)

You know, I agree with this. It's the better answer.

I thought the Cardinal Newman quote would perk up your interest:)

"The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of our God stands forever.”"---Isaiah 40:8

redleghunter  posted on  2015-09-08   17:09:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Liberator, GarySpFc, A K A Stone (#0)

Article I mentioned I would post. PING

quotquot autem receperunt eum dedit eis potestatem filios Dei fieri his qui credunt in nomine eius

redleghunter  posted on  2015-09-08   17:30:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: redleghunter (#2)

I thought the Cardinal Newman quote would perk up your interest:)

I found Newman's quote kind of ponderous.

It was the simple argument itself: convert, full of zeal, refuses to do what she believes is wrong - that strikes me as true and good.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-09-08   17:32:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Vicomte13, redleghunter, All (#4)

It was the simple argument itself: convert, full of zeal, refuses to do what she believes is wrong - that strikes me as true and good.

Some of the most whacked out people I have ever met were newly converted, born again whatever. Truely scarey people to be avoided at all cost as they well not only poison their own well but yours too and burn their and your village to save it. That kind of religious fervor is worse than being hooked on drugs or alcohol. It's an effort to impose control on what is otherwise a chaotic, self- destructive life. Be afraid of these folks, be very afraid.

потому что Бог хочет это тот путь

SOSO  posted on  2015-09-08   18:57:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: SOSO (#5)

I'm not afraid of much. She's a sad middle aged clerk in Kentucky. Her rebellion is purely symbolic, and risks nothing - unless other people are inspired by her example to do the same.

I like that idea.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-09-08   19:51:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: redleghunter (#0)

... but it is likely that she owes a heritage to Martin Luther, whose career and legacy pivoted on his conviction that, “to go against conscience is neither right nor safe. Here I stand, I can do no other, so help me God.”

The paraphrase of the "Here I Stand" speech was during Luther's rejection of Catholicism at the Diet of Worms (~1521).

Too bad that his gruff and smug forebearance later created the Thirty Year's War (~1620); this war is one of the most bloody wars on the face of the planet; it certainly was the most bloody war in all of Europe's history.

He despised Catholics and Jews, alike.

buckeroo  posted on  2015-09-08   21:15:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Vicomte13 (#6)

-- unless other people are inspired by her example to do the same.

I like that idea.

I have been advocating civil disobedience at the local, city and state level for quite some time now, dating back to LP. However not all causes are worthy of support. Hers is most certainly not.

потому что Бог хочет это тот путь

SOSO  posted on  2015-09-08   22:04:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: SOSO, Vicomte13, liberator (#5)

Some of the most whacked out people I have ever met were newly converted, born again whatever. Truely scarey people to be avoided at all cost as they well not only poison their own well but yours too and burn their and your village to save it. That kind of religious fervor is worse than being hooked on drugs or alcohol. It's an effort to impose control on what is otherwise a chaotic, self- destructive life. Be afraid of these folks, be very afraid.

Acts 2 New King James Version (NKJV)

When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

5 And there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men, from every nation under heaven. 6 And when this sound occurred, the multitude came together, and were confused, because everyone heard them speak in his own language. 7 Then they were all amazed and marveled, saying to one another, “Look, are not all these who speak Galileans? 8 And how is it that we hear, each in our own language in which we were born? 9 Parthians and Medes and Elamites, those dwelling in Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya adjoining Cyrene, visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, 11 Cretans and Arabs—we hear them speaking in our own tongues the wonderful works of God.” 12 So they were all amazed and perplexed, saying to one another, “Whatever could this mean?”

13 Others mocking said, “They are full of new wine.”

14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, raised his voice and said to them, “Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and heed my words. 15 For these are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day. 16 But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:

17 ‘And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God, That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your young men shall see visions, Your old men shall dream dreams. 18 And on My menservants and on My maidservants I will pour out My Spirit in those days; And they shall prophesy. 19 I will show wonders in heaven above And signs in the earth beneath: Blood and fire and vapor of smoke. 20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the Lord. 21 And it shall come to pass That whoever calls on the name of the Lord Shall be saved.’

Acts 10: New King James Version (NKJV)

34 Then Peter opened his mouth and said: “In truth I perceive that God shows no partiality. 35 But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him. 36 The word which God sent to the children of Israel, preaching peace through Jesus Christ—He is Lord of all— 37 that word you know, which was proclaimed throughout all Judea, and began from Galilee after the baptism which John preached: 38 how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him. 39 And we are witnesses of all things which He did both in the land of the Jews and in Jerusalem, whom they killed by hanging on a tree. 40 Him God raised up on the third day, and showed Him openly, 41 not to all the people, but to witnesses chosen before by God, even to us who ate and drank with Him after He arose from the dead. 42 And He commanded us to preach to the people, and to testify that it is He who was ordained by God to be Judge of the living and the dead. 43 To Him all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins.”

44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. 45 And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.

Then Peter answered, 47 “Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days.

Peter and those "crazy" born again Christians!

quotquot autem receperunt eum dedit eis potestatem filios Dei fieri his qui credunt in nomine eius

redleghunter  posted on  2015-09-08   23:01:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: redleghunter, SOSO, Vicomte13 (#9)

"Some of the most whacked out people I have ever met were newly converted, born again whatever. Truely scarey people to be avoided at all cost as they well not only poison their own well but yours too and burn their and your village to save it. That kind of religious fervor is worse than being hooked on drugs or alcohol. It's an effort to impose control on what is otherwise a chaotic, self- destructive life. Be afraid of these folks, be very afraid."

Peter and those "crazy" born again Christians!

Yeah -- "truuuuuely scare-eeey!!" So scary I've logged this post under "Hysterically funny!"

Btw Red -- Amen to Peter and those crazy born-agains!

Liberator  posted on  2015-09-08   23:58:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: buckeroo (#7)

It takes two to tango. The Thirty Years War was an atrocity brought about in equal measure by Catholic and Lutheran intransigence. Both sides turned into psychopathic killers...in the name of the Prince of Peace - truly disgraceful conduct by "Christians" of both stripes.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-09-09   0:37:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: SOSO (#5)

Some of the most whacked out people I have ever met were newly converted, born again whatever. Truely scarey people to be avoided at all cost as they well not only poison their own well but yours too and burn their and your village to save it. That kind of religious fervor is worse than being hooked on drugs or alcohol. It's an effort to impose control on what is otherwise a chaotic, self- destructive life. Be afraid of these folks, be very afraid.

The worst are the converts to atheism. Once they break ties to their tradition and religious backgrounds they go on rampage trying to destroy all that reminds them of the past, including culture, family, historical memory etc

They are more vicious version of secular Taliban.

A Pole  posted on  2015-09-09   1:57:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: A Pole (#12)

The worst are the converts to atheism.

I haven't met many of theme, actually none that I can recall.

потому что Бог хочет это тот путь

SOSO  posted on  2015-09-09   10:13:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: buckeroo (#7)

Too bad that his gruff and smug forebearance later created the Thirty Year's War (~1620); this war is one of the most bloody wars on the face of the planet; it certainly was the most bloody war in all of Europe's history.

Martin Luther: 10 November 1483 – 18 February 1546

Thirty Years War: between 1618 and 1648

Luther was long dead and gone before the Thirty Years war. To blame him for that war, you would have to blame the Pope and all the monarchs of Europe too that were already dead.

So, the Thirty Years War had nothing to do with Archduke Ferdinand and/or Duke Maximilian?

Or is your point Ferdinand and Maximilian would have no reason to slay thousands IF the Reformation never happened?

If so, then that is like saying if there was no Declaration of Independence from those pesky colonists, bloodshed in the American colonies could have been avoided.

quotquot autem receperunt eum dedit eis potestatem filios Dei fieri his qui credunt in nomine eius

redleghunter  posted on  2015-09-09   10:50:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: Vicomte13 (#11)

It takes two to tango. The Thirty Years War was an atrocity brought about in equal measure by Catholic and Lutheran intransigence. Both sides turned into psychopathic killers...in the name of the Prince of Peace - truly disgraceful conduct by "Christians" of both stripes.

I think by that point, on the Protestant side, the Calvinists eclipsed the Lutherans.

The bloody response to Catholics Archduke Ferdinand and Duke Maximilian was the Calvinist Frederick V Elector of the Palatinate.

All of the above used various Christian denominational fronts to further their secular political power and land holdings.

That whole bloody mess in Europe convinced our nation's founders to not recognize a specific Christian church denomination.

quotquot autem receperunt eum dedit eis potestatem filios Dei fieri his qui credunt in nomine eius

redleghunter  posted on  2015-09-09   13:39:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: redleghunter (#15)

That whole bloody mess in Europe convinced our nation's founders to not recognize a specific Christian church denomination.

I think it was the specific mess in England, that had led to a very fractious settlement of different colonies and parts thereof by different religious refugees from England, that had more to do with it.

After all, the Puritan Establishment in Massachussetts Bay would have killed the founders of Rhode Island had they not fled and set up their own dissenter colony.

Maryland started as a refuge for Catholics to flee England. The tidewater was Anglican, but the Southern piedmont and northern Appalachians were Presbyterian. The Presbyterians went hard-over anti-British - the most virulently independentist of all, but Scottish Highlanders had also come to American, and the remotest of the Highlanders were, in Britain, the most stubbornly Catholic of the fringe people, and the most loyalist of the Americans. It was these Highlander Catholics who emigrated en masse to Canada as United Empire Loyalists after the Revolution, and it was their Catholicism that explained why they were able to settle in among and beside the Quebec French without creating a terrible cultural war.

America had the problem that the Southern Colonies were all divided between Eastern Anglican and Western Presbyterian, the Middle Atlantic Colonies were divided between Eastern Quaker or Reformed (Dutch or French) and Western Presbyterian, and New England between coastal Congregationalist, inland Presbyterian and further-inland Catholic.

Oh, and Catholic France and prominent American Catholics had funded and led during the Revolutionary War.

America had no predominant religion, and the religions that America was divided into were all warring sects in England - that was why those people came to America.

Because of the Revolution, Americans had found a unity that transcended religious lines, but that could not be preserved if there were any attempt to set up any of the minority hostile religions as the national religion. Nobody had anywhere close to a majority to do it, and the hostility that the majority of not-that-sect-ers would have raised would have divided America.

So the Founders made sure that no sect would be predominant, because none would accept the rulership of the others over it. There had been too much bad blood in England to continue it here.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-09-09   14:00:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: redleghunter (#14)

The paraphrase of the "Here I Stand" speech was during Luther's rejection of Catholicism at the Diet of Worms (~1521).

Too bad that his gruff and smug forebearance later created the Thirty Year's War (~1620); this war is one of the most bloody wars on the face of the planet; it certainly was the most bloody war in all of Europe's history.

I said the above, fully recognizing he was buried 6 feet under before the start of the war. It was his attitude that I am discussing AND he was far from humble. His attitude carries on to this day through the Protestants; they are always carrying an axe to grind towards anyone that is not of their immediate church.

buckeroo  posted on  2015-09-09   19:46:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: buckeroo (#17)

I said the above, fully recognizing he was buried 6 feet under before the start of the war. It was his attitude that I am discussing AND he was far from humble. His attitude carries on to this day through the Protestants; they are always carrying an axe to grind towards anyone that is not of their immediate church.

Really? That one man caused so much strife. Are you in the Leo X and George III fan club or something? Perhaps take a look at the corrupt Popes of that era. And the bloody monarchs doing their dirty work.

quotquot autem receperunt eum dedit eis potestatem filios Dei fieri his qui credunt in nomine eius

redleghunter  posted on  2015-09-09   20:03:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: redleghunter (#18)

Oh yeah. The last thing the world needs are more religious zealots running around causing panic amongst the minions.

buckeroo  posted on  2015-09-09   20:48:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: buckeroo (#19)

Oh yeah. The last thing the world needs are more religious zealots running around causing panic amongst the minions.

I know...the homofacist religion is vying to be the establishment religion in the US.

quotquot autem receperunt eum dedit eis potestatem filios Dei fieri his qui credunt in nomine eius

redleghunter  posted on  2015-09-09   23:06:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: redleghunter (#20)

Don't blame me, blame your US leaders that you vote for. They lost their principles, not me.

buckeroo  posted on  2015-09-09   23:08:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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