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Title: CNN changes debate criteria, clearing path for Fiorina (and more than 10)
Source:
Politico
URL Source: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/ ... r-fiorina-213237#ixzz3kWitNbmU
Published: Sep 1, 2015
Author: Hadas Gold
Post Date: 2015-09-01 20:23:35 by Hondo68
Keywords: None
Views: 4114
Comments: 56
Getty CNN announced on Tuesday that it has changed the criteria for its upcoming debate, making space for Republican presidential candidate Carly Fiorina on the primetime stage. Fiorina had argued for weeks that CNN's debate criteria unfairly weighted early field leaders over contenders like her who have polled better since the Fox News debate on Aug. 6. According to CNN, any candidate who ranks in the top 10 between Aug. 6 and Sept. 10 will be included in the primetime debate on Sept. 16. Also allowed in the main show will be candidates who scored in the top 10 averages of all approved national polls between July 16 and Sept. 10, as the original criteria released in May stated. This means it is possible there will be more than 10 candidates on the primetime debate stage. The new approach allows the network to avoid looking like it's favoring Fiorina at the expense of candidates such as Chris Christie and Rand Paul who would have been at risk of getting bumped to the earlier debate if CNN had more heavily weighted later polls, as Fiorina had suggested. Still, CNN warned in an announcement that final podium placements won't be known until Sept. 10, after all national polls have come in. "In the event that any candidate is polling in the top 10 in an average of approved national polls released between August 7th and September 10th, we will add those candidates to our top tier debate, even if those candidates did not poll in the top 10 in an average of approved national polls between July 16th and September 10th," CNN said in a statement. "We have discussed these changes with the Republican National Committee and the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library, and they are fully supportive." Despite weeks of statements claiming that there would be no change, CNN said they decided to change the criteria after learning that there would likely only be two more polls conducted before the Sept. 10 deadline. The new format was announced in a conference call with representatives from all Republican campaigns on Tuesday afternoon, with sources on the call describing the change as a last-minute decision. CNN also said in its statement: "We learned this week that there will likely be only two more polls by the deadline of September 10th. In a world where we expected there to be at least 15 national polls, based on historic precedent, it appears there will be only five. As a result, we now believe we should adjust the criteria to ensure the next debate best reflects the most current state of the national race." RNC chairman Reince Priebus released his own statement saying that he supports the decision. "I applaud CNN for recognizing the historic nature of this debate and fully support the network's decision to amend their criteria," Priebus said. He later said during an appearance on CNN that the network had made a judgment based on prior patterns that did not hold true, that there would be more polls closer to the deadline. "By not altering the criteria to maybe exclude people who were counting on it, by adding a podium for anyone that might be in the top 10 but not otherwise meeting the criteria I think that the problem is solved and I think that was the right decision and they did the right thing," Priebus said. According to a POLITICO calculation, in the three polls conducted since the first debate on Aug. 6, Fiorina is in seventh place, with an average of 5 percent. Fiorina was in the earlier "happy hour" debate during last month's Fox News debate, and delivered a standout performance that has fueled her bid to make it onto the primetime stage next time around. The CNN debate will similarly be split into two sessions, with a 6 p.m. undercard debate, and a 9 p.m. main show. On Twitter, Fiorina tweeted her gratitude, saying "THANKS TO YOU, we will be able to share our message of leadership and citizenship with Republican voters on the main debate stage." She followed the message with a second tweet: "…and thank you to @RealBenCarson and @realDonaldTrump who spoke out in support of a fair debate process." Ben Carson also celebrated the move on Twitter, saying "Big win for We the People! Pleased to see @CarlyFiorina having an opportunity to have her voice heard at the debate." In addition to the new criteria, campaigns were told that further decisions about format, such as opening and closing statements, will be made next week, according to a source who was on the call. Many campaigns on the call asked about tickets and credentials, since the debate will be held at the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library, which has a much smaller capacity than the Quicken Loans Arena in Cleveland. At the moment, each campaign is limited to seven tickets per candidate. 
CNN says they expect just two additional national polls will be released between now and the Sept. 10 deadline, making it difficult for Fiorina to fall out of the additional, post-debate top 10. (If Fiorina was at only 2 percent in the two forthcoming polls, she would still be in ninth place in this subsequent average.)
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#1. To: hondo68 (#0)
Just so everyone knows:
Theoretically a couple of new (rigged?) polls of 23% or so could push any of the second tier candidates into the CNN debate. So Lindsey Graham, Bobby Jindal, Santorum, Pataki, etc. are not totally out of the debate, if they somehow manage to pull some spectacular poll numbers in the next couple of weeks. Always room for more bozos, if they can afford to buy some poll numbers! The weaker the "anointed one" establishment candidate (jeb!/Rubio) is, the more candidates it takes to dilute the vote enough to make them look "good". hondo - And I want other presideential candidates to wallow with him as they fucking lie to the American People about "immigration reform." Immigration reform? While this nation practices voodoo about international intrigue that has performed nothing but war around the planet charging me amnd you for the BS? And this government can't protect our borders? It i the same scenario, everyday ... allow illegals to come into this nation to destroy the citizenry as in 9/11. Yes, thats right, the US government was responsible for allowing the 19 terrorists into the soverign USA. This nation is destroyed from within. - buckeroo
Can't remember who this is for, exactly, but you'll do as a proxy. TOLD YA SO! OF COURSE they were going to change the rules to get Fiorina on the stage with Trump.
If they do I hope Trump tears her up. She has no business running for president.
OF COURSE they were going to change the rules to get Fiorina on the stage with Trump. If they do I hope Trump tears her up. She has no business running for president. BS, she is more accomplished than Obama was when he first ran. потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
She will be there to tear into Trump. He'll tear her apart in return, because of her bad record. If she's smart, she won't play the anti-Trump game. She can't win it, and she won't win the nomination by doing it. But she's going to try. You can bet on it. She's being elevated to be the anti-Trump - to attack him so that he can be seen to be "bullying a woman". It's all set up, and she's going to play her role of designated hitter, just like Rand Paul tried to be in the first debate. But she will fail at it. She will fail because her business record is awful, and she failed as an electoral candidate before, badly. Trump will go right after her for her incompetence, and contrast that to his own brilliance at building enduring projects everywhere in the world. It's a stark contrast. She will be the shrill, angry woman in a red dress, the quintessential affirmative action hire, and what everybdoy hates about alpha bitches, and by handling her firmly and putting her in her place, with humor, Trump will get a lot of male support, and a lot of female support too. The problem that the media and the politicians have is that they have bought into their own rhetoric about political correctness. They're used to weak people, like themselves, bending before it. Billionaires do not have to bend before it, and most people hate political correctness. So when they line up this perfect politically correct candidate to take out Trump, what will happen instead will be the growth of his popularity, as political correctness in a red dress goes down in flames like Icarus, before a national audience.
OF COURSE they were going to change the rules to get Fiorina on the stage with Trump. Your prophetic claims aside, I don't recall you making any such prediction.
Exactly. She will be the shrill, angry woman in a red dress, the quintessential affirmative action hire, and what everybdoy hates about alpha bitches, and by handling her firmly and putting her in her place, with humor, Trump will get a lot of male support, and a lot of female support too. Well stated. The logic makes sense. I wonder if enough RINO/Dem voters will also see it that way?
Agree wholeheartedly. Burning down the House of Bush is a priority.
This is true. 0buma makes Fiorina seem like Phyliss Schafly. Of course 0buma makes Hitler seem like Stalin ;-) 0buma was/is STILL nothing but a Comminitah Organizer and agitator. THAT said, Fiorina was never even qualified to run Hewlett-Packard. She was...AA all the way, and STILL is.
I anticipate the rigging of polls from now on it. The RNC-GOPe will do ANYTHING to stop Trump from winning the nomination. This is where they'll call in their IOWs from the Dem-Media Machine, who whom they share an orgy of treason and treachery.
Back on the thread where people were screaming about "Changing the rules!" and how bad that was, I said from the get go that the rules would most certainly be changed to get Fiorina up on that stage, because she would be there to hit at Trump from a female perspective, and because she was the most interesting in the "Kid's Table". I could go back and find it, but nah.
It is relatively straightforward. CNN is simply weighting the qualifying polls toward more recent polls, to reflect the change in candidates' standing. Fiorina is #3 in Iowa now so of course it makes more sense to include her on the big stage. The only real question is whether some of the 1%ers and 2%er candidates (Paul, Jindal, Huckabee, etc.) should be shuffled out of the main debate and down to the junior varsity debate. The whole point of Iowa and New Hampshire is to allow less-funded, less-known candidates to have a chance. CNN's move is in keeping with the roles of these two classic primary contests.
Of course they do... they are afraid of Trump. They are more afraid of Trump if all the rest have limited exposure. Face it, libtards... TRUMP is coming. You libtards would rather have a RINO if you can't have a commie sanders or a Shitlery... I fully understand... but most of this country isn't playing anymore. I'm the infidel... Allah warned you about. كافر المسلح
Go Trump.
That's a very low bar. Based on that, you're more accomplished.
They are NOW. But that wasn't the original criteria. And that's what's important. Screw CNN for caving in and changing the rules. And screw Fiorina for whining and crying and stomping her feet until she got her way by pressuring CNN to accommodate her. Yes, she won the battle. But, in my opinion, she lost the war. I don't want a crybaby President, and I hope Trump pounds the shit out of her by saying the same.
Come on. You're way overboard. The "original criteria" as you describe them were merely what Fox News came up with for their debate and it was a reasonably fair picture of how the race stood when they held their debate. However, those were only the "rules" for one debate. CNN is completely free to rewrite the "rules" entirely. They could split it into a dozen debates. They could give the underdog debate in primetime and the main event in the afternoon or after midnight. The only "rules" are that the two political parties cannot dictate any debate rules to the networks. Otherwise, the FEC considers that as a kind of "coordination" and it will result in heavy fines. Take another scenario, like Romney or Mitch Daniels getting into the race late, like in October. You might see Biden or Warren get in as late as October. So they might enter the race and get 10%-15% in one or two polls before the next debate happens. However, because they were not in all the polls all year long like the other candidates have been, they would never score high enough to be included in any headline debate and either wouldn't qualify at all or would only qualify for the junior varsity debate. For instance, Kasich very nearly missed being in the main debate last time and largely because he entered the race so late. These "rules" you're touting are a big nothing, IMO. But there are no perfect answers to the problem posed. Just ones that are considered more or less relevant to the state of the race.
No. Fox News had rules for their debate. CNN had rules for their debate. And the CNN rules used the average of national polls dating from mid-July to September 10. CNN has now changed those rules to use the average of national polls dating August 6 to September 10. This eliminates all the low Fiorina polls prior to her first debate. What about the candidates who polled high before the first debate? Now all those polls are ignored. Is that fair to them? "CNN is completely free to rewrite the "rules" entirely." I agree. But my point was never whether or not they could but whether or not they should.
Ignoring the early poll numbers of candidates who've fallen but have now advanced a better case for their candidacy is...fair to the American people. (Yes, even though that argument is weak.) The truth is, Fiorina's rise in polling was due to the JV format of the Q&A that allowed for more ad libbing without the distractions of the Varsity Squad. It didn't hurt that as the only woman (not counting Lady Lindsey), Fiorina stood starkly. More truth: Neither FOX "debate" was an actual "debate," but rather a scripted, biased showcase for network narcissists and political operatives (Baier, Kelly, Wallace.)
Agreed. потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
The "debates" are worthless when it comes to imparting information about the candidates' positions. The political pundits pick "winners" and "losers" based on their appearance, snarky responses, attacks, and gaffes. And it's all subjective. You can get a much better assessment of the candidate from an appearance on The Tonight Show.
I'm open to a cabinet position in your administration, by the way.
I agreed that I am more accomplished than the Emperor but I am not a power hungry delusional maniacal egocentric liar so that makes me unqualified for the job. потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
I don't watch it. Are you serious?
For the record, I never considered you delusional.
Neither do I. I'm in bed, asleep. But Trump is going to be on The Tonight Show with Jimmy Fallon on Sept. 11, and I may stay up for that.
I'll admit that Trump is entertaining even though I can't stand the guy.
Actually, I would demote them to the junior varsity debate. Including a few candidates I like. You're just bitchin' 'cause you don't like da Carly.
Not so fast, bub. : )
How dare you dismiss Lady Lindsey's feminine allure so callously, you uncouth cad!
Heyyyyyyyy......don't try that witchcraft stuff on me. потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
CNN has now changed those rules to use the average of national polls dating August 6 to September 10. This eliminates all the low Fiorina polls prior to her first debate. What about the candidates who polled high before the first debate? Now all those polls are ignored. Is that fair to them? Fox also changed the rules immediately before their debate and added 7 candidates and aired them in an additional debate before the main event. The CNN change had to be made to bail the RNC out from looking like total tools. The only effect of the CNN rules change is the potential (probable) addition of one or more people on the stage. All who qualify under the initial rules will still be eligible. There will likely be 11 debaters, adding Carly Fiorina. More could theoretically qualify. http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/01/politics/cnn-debate-rules-september-16/index.html To receive an invitation to the September 16, 2015 Republican Presidential Primary Debate, a candidate must satisfy the following criteria: 1. Fulfill the requirements outlined in Article II, Section 1 of the Constitution of the United States. 2. File a Statement of Candidacy and register with the Federal Election Commission by August 26, 2015. 3. Achieve an average of at least one percent in three national polls from among those that are recognized in this document. Recognized polls must be released between July 16, 2015 and September 10th, 2015. 4. Have at least one paid campaign aide working in two of the four "early voting states" designated by the Republican National Committee: Iowa, Nevada, New Hampshire, South Carolina --no later than August 26, 2015. 5. Visited two of the four "early voting states" designated by the Republican National Committee at least once --no later than August 26, 2015. 6. Agree to accept the rules and format of the debate. 7. The first 10 candidates -ranked from highest to lowest in polling order from an average of all qualifying polls released between July 16 and September 10 who satisfy the criteria requirements outlined in this document --will be invited to participate in "Segment B" of the September 16, 2015 Republican Presidential Primary Debate. In the event of a tie for 10th place, the tie-breaker will be an average of all qualifying polls released between August 26 and September 10. The second tie-breaker will be an average of all qualifying polling conducted in Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina and Nevada released between July 16 and September 10. 7a. In the event that there is a candidate (or candidates) polling in the top ten in qualifying polls between August 7 and September 10, but not polling in the top ten in polls between July 16 and September 10, that candidate (or candidates) will be added to the debate stage and will appear in "Segment B" of the debate. 8. Candidates who satisfy the criteria and achieve an average of at least one percent in three national polls, but are not ranked in the top 10 of polling order will be invited to participate in "Segment A" of the September 16, 2015 Republican Presidential Primary Debate. Polling Criteria Polling data will only be considered for live interviewer national polls sponsored by the following sources to determine eligibility for the September 16, 2015 Republican Presidential Primary Debate: ABC/The Washington Post, Bloomberg, CBS/The New York Times, CNN, FOX, Gallup, Marist, McClatchy, Monmouth University, NBC/The Wall Street Journal, Pew, Quinnipiac, USA Today, Time. For the second tie-breaker, qualifying polling includes all live interviewer polls in Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina and Nevada conducted by organizations listed above as well as those sponsored or conducted by Clemson University, the Des Moines Register, the Las Vegas ReviewJournal, the University of New Hampshire, the University of Nevada Las Vegas, Winthrop University. To determine eligibility, poll averages will not be rounded up or down to the , closest whole number.
Well, I don't like her whining and crying to change the rules to favor her, personally. That's what liberals do. And she was kicked out of HP. Which leads me to believe she obtained that position because of her gender, not her abilities. I feel she's doing the same as a Presidential candidate.
They changed no rules. They added a completely separate second debate which had its own rules.
The HP board was a bunch of assholes, before/during/after Fiorina's stint as CEO. Her performance there can be debated. There were many strong indicators for growth and she did take on a number of bad situations from her predecessor. It wasn't like she wrecked some sweet-running corporate machine. As for being an affirmative-action hire, I'd say it's as likely that Fiorina was promoted in the same way the female CEO of General Motors: after they run the business into a ditch, they decide to get an interim female CEO during an anticipated bad patch for the company. I don't think Fiorina got a fair shake in being handed a badly limping HP and I don't think the female CEO at GM got a fair shake in being handed the reins just as all the recalls were ready to descend (and the GM board had good reason to know privately that GM had several major recalls and lawsuits to settle). I'm not lenient in these matters but I wouldn't heap any big blame on Fiorina as far as HP's performance, reputation and pattern of expansive growth. In terms of mistakes made, I'd blame the HP board of directors as much as her, if not more. And she took on a number of thorny problems personally. Her office became the appeal of last resort for people dissatisfied with HP customer service, mostly on new HP computers that were faulty. She got high marks with techies for that. There were some questionable machines and the existing HP assembly lines were not focused on quality (keep in mind this was the period we were outsourcing a lot of assembly work to Mexico instead of China).
They had a rule that only the top ten would debate. 17 debated. The change was made at the last minute.
All of that is debatable. She is now near the top of the polls because she royally kicked six GOPe candidates in the debate. She outperformed.
I wouldn't get too carried away. Two of those GOPe dynamos were Pataki and Gilmore.
Comments (41 - 56) not displayed.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest The official roster won’t be decided until Sept. 10, but a CNN analysis of polls since July 16 found the debate participants would include Donald Trump, Jeb Bush, Scott Walker, Ben Carson, Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio, Mike Huckabee, Rand Paul, John Kasich and Chris Christie. Under the new rules, Mrs. Fiorina also would make the cut.
#2. To: buckeroo, *The Two Parties ARE the Same* (#1)
(Edited)
"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul
#3. To: hondo68 (#2)
I want to see Jeb! sink to the lowest poll numbers possible to disqualify him from any debate pretending "love" of government for illegal aliens while government has never meant "love" ... the fucking liar wants a job called, "POTUS" and that job means POWER by FORCE of a gun ... not some shyster "love" bullshit. His entire family has double-crossed America and they put another do-nothing Bush to fuck this nation up again.
#4. To: Too Conservative (#0)
#5. To: Vicomte13 (#4)
OF COURSE they were going to change the rules to get Fiorina on the stage with Trump.
#6. To: rlk, Vicomte13 (#5)
#7. To: rlk (#5)
#8. To: Vicomte13 (#4)
TOLD YA SO!
#9. To: Vicomte13 (#7)
She's being elevated to be the anti-Trump - to attack him so that he can be seen to be "bullying a woman". It's all set up, and she's going to play her role of designated hitter, just like Rand Paul tried to be in the first debate.
#10. To: buckeroo (#3)
I want to see Jeb! sink to the lowest poll numbers possible to disqualify him from any debate pretending "love" of government for illegal aliens while government has never meant "love" ...His entire family has double-crossed America...
#11. To: SOSO, rlk, Vicomte13 (#6)
She [Fiorina] is more accomplished than 0buma was when he first ran.
#12. To: hondo68 (#2)
Theoretically a couple of new (rigged?) polls of 23% or so could push any of the second tier candidates into the CNN debate.
#13. To: TooConservative (#8)
Your prophetic claims aside, I don't recall you making any such prediction.
#14. To: Vicomte13 (#13)
Back on the thread where people were screaming about "Changing the rules!" and how bad that was, I said from the get go that the rules would most certainly be changed to get Fiorina up on that stage, because she would be there to hit at Trump from a female perspective, and because she was the most interesting in the "Kid's Table".
#15. To: hondo68 (#0)
CNN changes debate criteria, clearing path for Fiorina (and more than 10)
#16. To: TooConservative (#14)
#17. To: SOSO (#6)
"BS, she is more accomplished than Obama was when he first ran."
#18. To: TooConservative (#14)
"It is relatively straightforward. CNN is simply weighting the qualifying polls toward more recent polls"
#19. To: misterwhite (#18)
They are NOW. But that wasn't the original criteria. And that's what's important.
#20. To: TooConservative (#19)
"However, those were only the "rules" for one debate."
#21. To: misterwhite, TooConservative (#20)
(Edited)
What about the candidates who polled high before the first debate? Now all those polls are ignored. Is that fair to them?
#22. To: misterwhite (#17)
Based on that, you're more accomplished.
#23. To: Liberator (#21)
#24. To: SOSO (#22)
Based on that, you're more accomplished.
Agreed.
#25. To: misterwhite (#24)
I'm open to a cabinet position in your administration, by the way.
#26. To: misterwhite (#23)
You can get a much better assessment of the candidate from an appearance on The Tonight Show.
#27. To: SOSO (#25)
"but I am not a power-hungry delusional maniacal egocentric liar ..."
#28. To: Fred Mertz (#26)
"I don't watch it. Are you serious?"
#29. To: misterwhite (#28)
#30. To: misterwhite (#20)
What about the candidates who polled high before the first debate? Now all those polls are ignored. Is that fair to them?
#31. To: SOSO (#25)
...but I am not a power hungry delusional maniacal egocentric liar...
#32. To: Liberator (#21)
It didn't hurt that as the only woman (not counting Lady Lindsey), Fiorina stood starkly.
#33. To: TooConservative (#31)
...but I am not a power hungry delusional maniacal egocentric liar... Not so fast, bub. : )
#34. To: misterwhite, TooConservative (#20)
No. Fox News had rules for their debate. CNN had rules for their debate. And the CNN rules used the average of national polls dating from mid-July to September 10.
Candidate Criteria for September 16, 2015 CNN-Ronald Reagan Presidential Library Republican Presidential Primary Debate
#35. To: TooConservative (#30)
"You're just bitchin' 'cause you don't like da Carly."
#36. To: nolu chan (#34)
"Fox also changed the rules immediately before their debate and added 7 candidates and aired them in an additional debate before the main event."
#37. To: misterwhite (#35)
(Edited)
And she was kicked out of HP. Which leads me to believe she obtained that position because of her gender, not her abilities.
#38. To: misterwhite (#36)
They changed no rules.
#39. To: misterwhite, TooConservative (#35)
And she was kicked out of HP. Which leads me to believe she obtained that position because of her gender, not her abilities. I feel she's doing the same as a Presidential candidate.
#40. To: nolu chan (#39)
She is now near the top of the polls because she royally kicked six GOPe candidates in the debate. She outperformed.
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