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Title: Kentucky clerk still won't issue same-sex marriage licenses
Source:
Associated Press
URL Source: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/storie ... AULT&CTIME=2015-09-01-08-52-48
Published: Sep 1, 2015
Author: Claire Valofaro
Post Date: 2015-09-01 10:04:38 by cranky
Keywords: None
Views: 35692
Comments: 339
A county clerk in Kentucky has again refused to issue marriage licenses to gay couples, invoking her religious beliefs and "God's authority" - this time in defiance of a U.S. Supreme Court ruling against her. On Tuesday morning, Rowan County Clerk Kim Davis' office denied the licenses to at least two couples. At first, Davis was in her office with the door closed and blinds drawn. But she emerged a few minutes later, telling the couples and the activists gathered there that her office is continuing to deny the licenses "under God's authority." The U.S. Supreme Court on Monday declined to intervene in the case, leaving Davis no legal grounds to refuse to grant the licenses. A district judge could now hold her in contempt of court, which can carry steep fines or jail time. As an elected official, Davis can't be fired. Davis asked David Moore and David Ermold to leave her office after they were denied a license Tuesday morning - the couple's fourth rejection. They refused, surrounded by reporters and cameras. "We're not leaving until we have a license," Ermold said. "Then you're going to have a long day," Davis told him. From the back of the room, Davis' supporters said: "Praise the Lord! ... Stand your ground." Other activists shouted that Davis is a bigot and told her: "Do your job." Davis has said her deeply held Christian beliefs don't let her endorse gay marriages. She stopped issuing all marriage licenses in the days after the Supreme Court legalized gay marriage across the nation. Two gay couples and two straight couples sued her, arguing that she must fulfill her duties as an elected official despite her personal religious faith. A federal judge ordered her to issue the licenses, and an appeals court upheld that decision. Her lawyers with the Liberty Counsel filed a last-ditch appeal to the Supreme Court on Friday, asking that they grant her "asylum for her conscience." Justice Elena Kagan, who oversees the 6th district, referred Davis' request to the full court, which denied the stay without comment. After Tuesday's denials, the rejected couples' supporters called the American Civil Liberties Union, which filed the lawsuit on their behalf. They asked that the attorneys file that day to have Davis held in contempt. Shortly after Davis' remarks in her office, the sheriff's office cleared the room and building of those gathered to support both sides of the issue. The two groups lined up on the lawn, on either side of the courthouse entrance to chant at each other. Davis' supporters have told her to "stand firm," while gay-rights activists shouted "do your job." Randy Smith, leading the group supporting Davis, said he knows following their instruction to "stand firm" might mean Davis goes to jail. "But at the end of the day, we have to stand before God, which has higher authority than the Supreme Court," he said. Ermold hugged Moore, his partner of 17 years, and they cried and swayed as they left the clerk's office. Davis' supporters marched by, chanting. "I feel sad, I feel devastated," Ermold said. "I feel like I've been humiliated on such a national level, I can't even comprehend it." 
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#300. To: Fred Mertz (#299)
Do you approve? Or will you censor this comment also? Christine would never do that. I'm not to interested either. But thank you for the offer.
"The Christian religion, which orders men to love one another, no doubt wants the best political laws and the best civil laws for each people, because those laws are, after [religion], the greatest good that men can give and receive..." Montesquieu understood the inherently selfish nature of man, and that, opportunity provided, one would accumulate power and become a despot. He introduced the revolutionary idea of separating the powers of a monarch into judicial, legislative and executive bodies which would jealously pull against each other, allowing power to check power. Montesquieu wrote: "Nor is there liberty if the power of judging is not separated from legislative power and from executive power. If it were joined to legislative power, the power over life and liberty of the citizens would be arbitrary, for the judge would be the legislator. If it were joined to executive power, the judge could have the force of an oppressor. All would be lost if the same...body of principal men...exercised these three powers." [...] "I have always respected religion; the morality of the Gospel is the noblest gift ever bestowed by God on man. [...] The principles of Christianity, deeply engraved on the heart, would be infinitely more powerful than the false honor of monarchies, than the humane virtues of republics, or the servile fear of despotic states. It is the Christian religion that, in spite of the extent of empire and the influence of climate, has hindered despotic power ... [...] The Christian religion is a stranger to mere despotic power. The mildness so frequently recommended in the Gospel is incompatible with the despotic rage with which a prince punishes his subjects, and exercises himself in cruelty.... [...] A moderate Government is most agreeable to the Christian Religion, and a despotic Government to the Mahommedan.... While the Mahommedan princes incessantly give or receive death, the religion of the Christians renders their princes...less cruel. The prince confides in his subjects, and the subjects in the prince. How admirable the religion which, while it only seems to have in view the felicity of the other life, continues the happiness of this! [...]" http://myemail.constantcontact.com/FEB--10---Montesquieu--Christian-religion---has-hindered-despotic-power-.html?soid=1108762609255&aid=fwuABvnCpFE
That is correct. and she is performing that test, isn't she?
Not if the Jew works for any government entity.
If SCOTUS declared all butchers must serve pork, a Jewish butcher has a right to refuse. Not if the Jew works for any government entity. A more real, and more frequently occurring situation is that of the military man who has a moment of spiritual clarity regarding war DURING a war. He can no longer continue to carry a gun and kill for his cause, because he recognizes that his cause is wrong spiritually - offensive to God - evil. What options does he have? In America, two: continue to serve, or be jailed. If he continues to serve but then won't fire his weapon in combat, he can be tried and even executed for cowardice before the enemy. We impose a religious test on the military: once you're in, you cannot change your mind, even if God appears to you and commands it. So, your CHOICE is to commit evil in service of the government, or to refuse to and have the evil inflicted upon you by the government. The only correct answer is for the government to never become involved in wrongful wars or uses of force anywhere. But there is no mechanism for imposing goodness on the nation, so the government routinely does evil by force. Given that, the man of God must avoid government service in the first place, because government, or at any rate American government, is a proven, known evil. But when we're young, we don't see that and don't realize it. The usual case, as with Ms. Davis in the civil sense, is that we work for the government because we need jobs and income, and then the government begins to ratchet up the evil. We must not deceive ourselves that American government is not evil. Clearly it is, and it clearly always has been. But it is difficult to see that young, and it's difficult to accept it at any age because it's heartbreaking. We would all prefer to lie to ourselves and say "it's not that bad", and then to make the illicit comparison to other bad governments and pretend that because many of them are worse, ours is therefore good. The demands of Hinduism are less shocking of the conscience than the demands of Islam. Shall we, therefore, say that Hinduism is a good and viable option for spirituality because Islam is bad? No. We must adhere to the truth and acknowledge that the One God has a Son, and his Son revealed the path for all. Nothing less will do. The same is true when it comes to violent evil. That Communist China is worse than America does not justify America's evils in the slightest. It's even one of the commandments: do not plead the evil of others as justification for your own. So, what is the solution for the military man who finds himself in service already and realizes that what he is doing is wrong? Any way he goes, there is evil, either by him or for him. And he may well reap the rewards of having participated in such evil long after he has left the service. I know I do, and always will. People value the military experience and the credential. THEY think it is a very good thing, even though it is in point of fact NOT a truly GOOD thing at all. There is no good answer to the conundrum. What it does is force us to face the reality of a world polluted by evil, in which we do not call the shots, and in which the law does not truly protect us. When World War I was declared and the draft began, the first draft resisters were some Quakers in the Midwest. Know what happened to them? They were arrested by the authorities and thrown into jail. And then in jail, they were beaten and starved, and denied medical treatment. Ultimately, they died. The United States handled peaceful Christian recusal from war by beating and starving the men to death in prison. There is no mercy or compassion for Christian scruples among pagans, because pagans in their true hearts hate Christ, hate God, and love the idea of their state and its law being more important than God. They love using the power of the state to force Christians to compromise, to force Christians to bend the knee and serve Caesar and to admit that, when it comes right down to it, they want to preserve their own lives more than they are willing to be martyrs for God. By breaking Christians by force and forcing them to bend the knee to the state, they are forcing men to serve Satan. Because there is a great deal of Satan in the government of the United States of America: abortion, gay marriage, aggressive warfare, unrelenting economic corruption. You cannot serve both God and mammon. Davis and the rest of us are learning that you cannot serve God and the United States of America. The real answer to it is hard and requires courage that doesn't exist, because Christians are and have always been of divided mind It is hard to forego temporal advantage. The only antidote to that is to actually trust what God promised in the law: if Christians actually FOLLOW the economic law, they will be supporting each other economically, and the Christian "club" will become exceedingly rich relative to those outside of it. By preferring one another in business, and by not charging one another interest, and by forgiving each others errors and offenses and supporting each other, the Christian element of society would emerge with far less debt, far less unemployment, far fewer NEEDS, far fewer illnesses - within the walls of their "club". The Jews have done this for centuries, and it is WHY the Jews emerge on top everywhere unless they are killed. They favor one another in all things, just as God's Law requires of them. And by doing so, they create an economic space for themselves in which they have the advantage of being able to get easy capital, and easy cooperation and trust. Christians are supposed to do that, but we don't. Instead, we rely on uniform laws of the state to try to make a "fair" playing field. But the state is evil and always has been, so the rules of the state end up forcing Christians to kneel to Satan and not get the hoped-for benefits. There has always been a way out for Christians. They just have to do what they are supposed to. Unfortunately, for the military man whose eyes are opened once he is already in Satan's service, there is no easy way out. Does he destroy himself at once by seeking an exit when there is none? Or does he bide his time and continue to serve Satan until he can escape? Once he has escaped, does he continue to accept the advantages of having served Satan? There is no good answer. The answer most pick is to continue to serve Satan, and to never give up an economic benefit, and to rely on God to pardon the acts taken from necessity. God probably WILL pardon all of that too - but just as men have to acknowledge Jesus as Lord, men DO have to acknowledge the truth. Any man who stands up and bellows about the GOODNESS of America and the RIGHTEOUSNESS of our evil wars is not repentant at all. Can Davis serve God and give out marriage licenses for gays? Yes. By recognizing what marriage really is, and understanding that she's not really giving out actual MARRIAGE licenses at all. That's just what the state calls these things, pretending to have sovereignty over marriage. In fact, all she is doing is selling a "tax deduction certificate" for people who have entered into a certain contract. That's it. The state has purloined the religious language, but that does not mean that the state has really changed anything. Consdier: there is a man in an insane asylum who asserts he is God. He is helpless and requires nurses to care for him, clean him and feed him. He raves all day, and when they clean and feed him, he gives them his direct blessings, as "God". He thanks them for serving God. Obviously he is not God. So, by serving him, are the nurses breaking the commandment against serving any god but God alone? No. Just because the guy CALLS himself God doesn't mean that he is any sort of god. He is a deluded crazy man who needs help, and they are helping him. His own word labels don't change anything. They are serving God, the real one, by serving him, because he is a very sick man. His OWN labelling of himself as God literally means nothing at all to GOD. It just means he is crazy. Likewise, the state calls it a marriage license and gives it to gays and straights. It is not a marriage license. It has nothing to do with real marriage. It's a tax deduction certificate and a state license to get survivor benefits. Nothing more. Issuing it is not breaking any commandment. It is not serving Satan - not if the person selling the certificate for the state and collecting the fee understands that this really has nothing to do with marriage at all, even though the state has put the word "marriage" on it. The state has no power to change the laws of God. By correct understanding of God's law, Davis can fulfill her duties and keep her job...or could have before she took her current stance. Unfortunately the soldier doesn't have the same option, because shooting a man in the head is killing. There's not mental sidestep and clarity about that one. There is still perhaps a way out of some of the guilt for the soldier who comes to his senses once he's in Satan's service, but this has already gone long so I won't go through that now.
LOL, it takes time to gear up for something like that... Guess you aren't very familiar with what the House and Senate do/did. They are what kept the US from getting ready to help out in the war against Germany. In fact they passed legislature that declared we would not sell arms to anyone participating in the war or the actions leading up to it!!! (Which ended up being ignored). Now before you say they were only doing what the American public as a whole wanted well then you better think again, especially when you see what is currently going on and they have a 80 some percent disapproval rate from the American public!!! Then I guess you are saying it is very heroic to be stupid and ignore what Hitler was doing as soon as he became Chancellor. Europe could have stood up and said right then to Hitler that ne needs to go back to his room and play nicely like a good little boy. But no instead the sheeple mentality won out and you suffered greatly for it. (Which by the way means it isn't Americas fault the war started)!!! Roosevelt quietly started expanding the Army and AAC in early 1939, he seen the writing on the wall. I have no doubt these actions are what caused the House and Senate to pass the legislation they passed trying to deny help to Europe. Then after Poland was attacked the House and Senate somewhat pull it's collective head out of it's ass and realized we would end up being involved whether they liked it or not, so they started the draft and mobilizing in mid 1940... Ahhh yes declaring war on someone when you aren't totally ready is a real winner. Just ask Hitler where it got him by doing that numerous time, the big dirt nap and a destroyed country... One moment you curse Hitler and the next you admire him, what a dope... Oooo they passed legislation. Britain, France, Canada - they were actually FIGHTING THE NAZIS. The Americans never declared war on them.
And depending on the tax bracket, that isn't much at all. I want to point out that if I work for an employer and I find his/her sense of ethics incorrect, I would look for another job post haste. That is exactly what Davis should have performed, if she had convictions to solid principles. Instead, she begs to play a false martyr. She receives a paycheck from the government to perfoom her duties as required by law and to fulfil the roles and responsibilities of her job description. And she doesn't like what she is tasked to do so she makes up her own rules. She is a bad as the US government; in your words, she is a satan.
And so were some Americans who enlisted in those and other countries militaries to fight the Nazis, and Japanese for that matter... If you want to blame America for what happened in Europe go for it. Just be sure to put the blame where it belongs, on those that stalled so long before deciding to help... And keep putting the blame on them for wanting to make this country more like Europe, even though the rest of the people in this country seem to know better than to go down that failed path... You know I just had a funny thought. I wouldn't be afraid to say that a lot of the Americans who went to Europe to help save your bacon were originally from Europe. Or were a descendant of someone from there that had left because of religious persecution and/or lack of opportunities to better themselves... (Talk about unselfish)... And then there are people like you who want to drag us back down to your level, tsk, tsk, tsk... They worship State. Romans before Constantine worshipped Emperor as god. Christians refused so they were persecuted. That is why state worshippers hate Constantine.
Sounds a whole lot like Obunghole, Congress, and a lot of Judges. Why is it that all those that want to come down on her so hard, are all so silent about Obunghole, Congress, a lot of Judges, and city officials that operate sanctuary cities, and those that ignore selling baby body parts, and seem to show no appetite to impeach them with the same vigor? Hypocritical, is it not? Si vis pacem, para bellum
Incorrect. The government has put a religious test in place. You have to renounce your faith to work for the government in some instances and more to come later. Also a violaton of the first amendment. You are an apparent enemy of the constitution.
She receives a paycheck from the government, correct? She must abide by the government rules.
The government has no right to put a religious test in place. They have no right to violate her first amendment rights. Fags have no right to get married. No faggots or dykes are married. Because it is a lie. Death to all queers who think they are married.
Oh BTW before I forget who was it that kept the Russian hordes from pouring thru the Fulda Gap all those years??? Need a hint? (It wasn't the French)... Oh BTW before I forget who was it that kept the Russian hordes from pouring thru the Fulda Gap all those years??? Need a hint? (It wasn't the French)... CZ82 posted I spent many 'happy' days up near the gap (at Hoenfels) with the 502nd... --- Hoping we would soon return to Munich, that is...
Nuclear weapons. The Americans have them. The British have them. The French have them And the Russian nukes kept the West from rescuing Hungary in 1956 and Czechoslovakia in 1968, Nuclear weapons end conventional war between nuclear powers. The Americans spent a fortune on conventional forces that exceeded anything really needed. Nuclear weapons were always what kept the peace, and still do. If the Americans left, the French and British nuclear deterrent is sufficient to keep the Russians out.
Believe me, I was there in '56, and it was the overwhelming strength of Russian armored forces that stopped us from a Hungarian rescue. Thanks to that evil leader in DC, Ike, our evil empire was stopped from starting WW III...
I am not interested in "blaming America for what happened in Europe". My point is that America is not "good". It is simply another Gentile country, a big one, that is filled with much evil and that has been doing evil since its beginning. Christianity has dramatically weakened itself by yoking it together with various Gentile nation states, which ends up rendering Christianity hypocrtical, because Gentile states are ungodly by their fundamental nature. Then Christians end up paralyzed because they add all sorts of worthless - at best - and frequently quite evil - national traditions on top of the already demanding Law of God. Men have a great deal of difficulty just obeying God's Law - or recognizing and admitting they've broken it so they can repent of their errors. When men load national traditions and pride on top the the burden of sin they already have, it blinds them and makes them unable to even admit of sin and repent, when the sin is done in the service of their national states and traditions. Paul gave us the rule: there is neither Greek nor Jew, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. That MEANS that the excessive devotion to evil Gentile states is ITSELF an evil. If Christians are killing other Christians out of loyalty to some ethnic national state, the Christians on all sides have lost their way. Nation states are nothing. Nothing. They rise. They fall. They are always evil. They are not made by God. Christians must ALWAYS be more loyal to God, and to other Christians, than to their governments or nation states. But Christians have been seduced by the appeal of nationalism into serving nationalist ideals over serving God by being the brothers of other Christians. This is fatal to Christianity. Christians owe their first loyalty to God, and when forced to choose between Christians and their nation states, Christians need to kill their nation states and topple their governments rather than kill other Christians. England, France, Germany, America and Russia never had any business going to war with each other in the first place: they are all full of Christians. That they all did so many times merely demonstrates how weak Christianity is, and how fundamentally lost Christians are. God first, Christian brotherhood. And that frankly doesn't leave ANY room for the nation state. Certainly there's no room for Christians to kill Christians in the name of some evil, perishable government. And American government is just another evil, perishable government.
I can accept that. in 1956, the Russian nuclear forces were not strong enough. The sheer power of the Soviet Army was strong enough to stop us. By 1968 they were.
Ike wasn't so bad. He got us out of Korea. He didn't get us into Vietnam. He preserved the New Deal. He warned of the military-industrial complex. And he appointed the Supreme Court that began desegregation. Ike had a pretty good record, all in all. If all American Presidents acted like him, America would be one of the good gentile nations.
The new deal is slavery. So you should have killed FDR.
Believe me, I was there in '56, and it was the overwhelming strength of Russian armored forces that stopped us from a Hungarian rescue. Thanks to that evil leader in DC, Ike, our evil empire was stopped from starting WW III... So you're backpedaling from yesterdays rant that the USA is evil incarnate? -- Good for you, -- and take a few more days off from hitting the sauce.
The New Deal is not slavery. At all. Social Security and Unemployment Benefits are the necessary forms of support in an industrialized society.
No, I'm not backpedalling from anything. Never do. All Gentile nations are evil. The US has been pretty terrible over it's lifespan. Christians cannot get themselves ensnared in trying to justify some nationalist ideal Just living up to God's law is hard enough.
It is unchristian to think that the fruits of your labor are someone elses. It is also unchristian to think that it is ok to kill slave masters.
God's Law prescribes death for those who steal and sell men. Slavers steal and sell men. They are liable for death under the law. Perhaps they should be showed mercy, but it is just as licit to kill a slaver as it is to kill somebody who is threatening to rape a girl. In fact, because virtually all female slaves of any decent appearance were routinely raped, to kill a slaver IS to kill a rapist, in just about every case. God's law imposed mandatory taxes amounting to well over 10% (the tithe PLUS the first fruits, PLUS the offerings or redemptions of all first born, PLUS the temple tax, PLUS the festival costs. God's taxes amounted to about 23% of income, in totum. It is not unjustly stealing the fruits of labor to have mandatory contributions for social welfare. God's Law establishes those things.
I was there in '56, and it was the overwhelming strength of Russian armored forces that stopped us from a Hungarian rescue. Thanks to that evil leader in DC, Ike, our evil empire was stopped from starting WW III... So you're backpedaling from yesterdays rant that the USA is evil incarnate? -- Good for you, -- and take a few more days off from hitting the sauce. Well if you're not backpedaling, you're either speaking with a forked tongue, or you're tippling again.. You must think you're clever enough to take any position at any time, and pull it off. Dream on..
I'm actually taking the same position over and over again. And pretty clearly too. You're just not grasping it. I shall try again: man's one true allegiance is to God. God, then, imposes duties on us: to take care of our spouses and our children and our parents, and to care for our neighbors. He provides economic, sexual and criminal laws whereby this care is to be exercised. And that is all that men need. Nation states are latter-day arrivals that seek to usurp the authority of God over men, and to replace God's law. Men do not owe allegiance to nation states.
So how many of those people have you voted for? Me personally none!!! Really? Then what keeps Russia from doing a preemptive strike and destroying all their nukes?? The Russians wouldn't mind in the least sending their troops into areas that have been nuked. They are like every other European nation they have plenty of "disposable" people to do their dirty work for them. (That's why they keep the unemployment rate at 10% to ensure a adequate supply of disposable bodies)!! And I bet you think the VA is bad... Ain't that the truth, hence the long screeds... Ain't that the truth, hence the long screeds... And I wonder how many of those conversations/debates he's had that he thinks he's won cause the other person just shook their head and stopped replying??? --- Hoping we would soon return to Munich, that is... So you were with the 11th Airborne?? I spent many 'happy' days up near the gap (at Hohenfels) with the 502nd... --- Hoping we would soon return to Munich, that is... Yep, I spent two years (56/57) at Warner Kaserne. Great duty.. Did you know anyone in the 11th?
Not real sure but I don't think so. I think both of the guys I know from that era were from armored units... I think I'll recommend you be reinstated on Freedom4um.com
#301. To: tpaine (#3)
#302. To: A K A Stone (#294)
The constitution says no religious test.
#303. To: redleghunter (#286)
If SCOTUS declared all butchers must serve pork, a Jewish butcher has a right to refuse.
#304. To: buckeroo, redleghunter (#303)
#305. To: Vicomte13 (#289)
immediately
“Let me see which pig "DON'T" I want to vote for, the one with or without lipstick??" Hmmmmm...
#306. To: Vicomte13 (#288)
That's what the US did. It was a good thing we were dragged into the war, lest the Nazis win. But the Nazis never should have gotten control of the Low Countries, let alone France or been able to burn down London. The US should have been there from the beginning. Had the US been there, Czechoslovakia wouldn't have been invaded. Or if it had been, Hitler would have been out of power before the first shot was fired in Poland.
“Let me see which pig "DON'T" I want to vote for, the one with or without lipstick??" Hmmmmm...
#307. To: Vicomte13 (#288)
It is not heroic to stand by while the free world is butchered and bombed
“Let me see which pig "DON'T" I want to vote for, the one with or without lipstick??" Hmmmmm...
#308. To: Vicomte13 (#288)
“Let me see which pig "DON'T" I want to vote for, the one with or without lipstick??" Hmmmmm...
#309. To: Vicomte13 (#288)
“Let me see which pig "DON'T" I want to vote for, the one with or without lipstick??" Hmmmmm...
#310. To: CZ82 (#306)
#311. To: Vicomte13, redleghunter (#304)
In fact, all she is doing is selling a "tax deduction certificate" for people who have entered into a certain contract. That's it.
#312. To: Vicomte13 (#310)
(Edited)
Oooo they passed legislation. Britain, France, Canada - they were actually FIGHTING THE NAZIS. The Americans never declared war on them.
“Let me see which pig "DON'T" I want to vote for, the one with or without lipstick??" Hmmmmm...
#313. To: Vicomte13 (#304)
pagans in their true hearts hate Christ, hate God, and love the idea of their state and its law being more important than God
#314. To: buckeroo (#311)
" And she doesn't like what she is tasked to do so she makes up her own rules "
#315. To: buckeroo (#302)
The constitution says no religious test. That is correct. and she is performing that test, isn't she?
#316. To: A K A Stone (#315)
The government has put a religious test in place.
#317. To: buckeroo (#316)
The government has put a religious test in place. She receives a paycheck from the government, correct? She must abide by the government rules.
#318. To: Vicomte13 (#310)
“Let me see which pig "DON'T" I want to vote for, the one with or without lipstick??" Hmmmmm...
#319. To: CZ82, Vicomte, Y'ALL (#318)
#318. To: Vicomte13 (#310)
#320. To: CZ82 (#318)
#321. To: Vicomte13 (#320)
Russian nukes kept the West from rescuing Hungary in 1956 ---
#322. To: CZ82 (#312)
#323. To: tpaine (#321)
#324. To: tpaine (#321)
#325. To: Vicomte13 (#324)
#326. To: Vicomte13 (#324)
Vicomte13 (#320) --- Russian nukes kept the West from rescuing Hungary in 1956 ---
I can accept that. in 1956, the Russian nuclear forces were not strong enough. The sheer power of the Soviet Army was strong enough to stop us. By 1968 they were. ------ Ike wasn't so bad. He got us out of Korea. He didn't get us into Vietnam. He preserved the New Deal. He warned of the military-industrial complex. And he appointed the Supreme Court that began desegregation. Ike had a pretty good record, all in all. If all American Presidents acted like him, America would be one of the good gentile nations.
#327. To: A K A Stone (#325)
#328. To: tpaine (#326)
#329. To: Vicomte13 (#327)
The New Deal is not slavery. At all. Social Security and Unemployment Benefits are the necessary forms of support in an industrialized society.
#330. To: A K A Stone (#329)
#331. To: Vicomte13 (#328)
------ Ike wasn't so bad. He got us out of Korea. He didn't get us into Vietnam. He preserved the New Deal. He warned of the military-industrial complex. And he appointed the Supreme Court that began desegregation. Ike had a pretty good record, all in all. If all American Presidents acted like him, America would be one of the good gentile nations.
No, I'm not backpedalling from anything. Never do. All Gentile nations are evil. The US has been pretty terrible over it's lifespan. Christians cannot get themselves ensnared in trying to justify some nationalist ideal Just living up to God's law is hard enough.
#332. To: tpaine (#331)
#333. To: Vicomte13 (#322)
My point is that America is not "good".
“Let me see which pig "DON'T" I want to vote for, the one with or without lipstick??" Hmmmmm...
#334. To: Vicomte13 (#320)
If the Americans left, the French and British nuclear deterrent is sufficient to keep the Russians out.
“Let me see which pig "DON'T" I want to vote for, the one with or without lipstick??" Hmmmmm...
#335. To: tpaine (#331)
You must think you're clever enough to take any position at any time, and pull it off.
“Let me see which pig "DON'T" I want to vote for, the one with or without lipstick??" Hmmmmm...
#336. To: tpaine (#331)
You must think you're clever enough to take any position at any time, and pull it off.
“Let me see which pig "DON'T" I want to vote for, the one with or without lipstick??" Hmmmmm...
#337. To: tpaine (#319)
I spent many 'happy' days up near the gap (at Hoenfels) with the 502nd...
“Let me see which pig "DON'T" I want to vote for, the one with or without lipstick??" Hmmmmm...
#338. To: CZ82 (#337)
So you were with the 11th Airborne??
#339. To: tpaine (#338)
Did you know anyone in the 11th?
“Let me see which pig "DON'T" I want to vote for, the one with or without lipstick??" Hmmmmm...
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