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Title: PC Stronger Than Hulkamania… For Now
Source: VDare
URL Source: http://www.vdare.com/articles/pc-stronger-than-hulkamania-for-now
Published: Aug 4, 2015
Author: Paul Kersey
Post Date: 2015-08-04 11:22:23 by nativist nationalist
Keywords: None
Views: 2779
Comments: 45

It’s a bad week for wrestling fans, as Rowdy Roddy Piper is dead, and we learned that even Hulk Hogan is no match for Political Correctness. Like a Soviet official who has fallen out of favor, Hulk Hogan (pictured right, in happier days) has been airbrushed from the history of World Wrestling Entertainment, the company he turned into a global force, and whose owner, Vince McMahon, he turned into a billionaire. Yet the WWE’s decision may prove short-sighted, as the company and its owners remain vulnerable to a Politically Correct crusade despite disavowing their most legendary superstar.

Hogan was the breakthrough star of professional wrestling, a hero to children of the 1980s and 1990s who followed his advice to “train, say your prayers, and eat your vitamins,” so they too could be a “Hulkamaniac.” Hogan headlined the first nine Wrestlemanias, an event that serves as the WWE’s Super Bowl. He transcended professional wrestling and broke into Hollywood, most notably in Rocky III, eventually becoming a symbol of Americana. Indeed, Donald Trump was introduced before 15,000 people at his recent speech in Phoenix to Hulk Hogan’s iconic ring-entrance music, Real American.

Hogan was featured on the cover of the April 29, 1985 issue of Sports Illustrated and recently was one of the figures interviewed in the “Where are they Now?” feature of the same magazine [Sports Illustrated Features in- depth look at WWE, WWE [Google Cache], June 30, 2015, Accessed August 3, 2015].

But the official website of the WWE no longer links to this piece. Hogan is now in the same category as Paula Deen, a corporate liability. His crime: In a recorded private conversation back in 2008, which is now the subject of litigation, Hogan uttered the dread N-word.

“WWE terminated its contract with Terry Bollea (aka Hulk Hogan),” the company said in a statement Friday morning. “WWE is committed to embracing and celebrating individuals from all backgrounds as demonstrated by the diversity of our employees, performers and fans worldwide.”

The WWE has not confirmed the specific reason for ending its contract with Hogan.

According to a “joint investigation” by the National Enquirer and Radar Online, the decision came down after additional footage from Hogan’s 2012 sex tape leaked, showing the wrestler making racist comments about his daughter Brooke’s boyfriend, whom he believed to be black.

“I’d rather if she was going to f— some n—er,” Hogan reportedly said on the tape. “I’d rather have her marry an 8-foot-tall n—er worth a hundred million dollars! Like a basketball player!

The WWE has since scrubbed all mentions of Hogan’s name from its website. A source tells THR that a replacement judge will appear in Hogan’s place on Tuesday’s episode of WWE Tough Enough. Further details will be announced on Tuesday’s episode. Additionally, the WWE will no longer air previous episodes of the series that involve Hogan.

According to USA Today, Hogan is also no longer present on the WWE Hall of Fame page. All merchandise has been removed from WWEShop.com.

In a statement to People, Hogan has apologized for his comments, saying: “Eight years ago I used offensive language during a conversation. It was unacceptable for me to have used that offensive language; there is no excuse for it; and I apologize for having done it.” [Hulk Hogan fired from WWE after reports of racist rant, by Katie Wilson Berg, Hollywood Reporter, July 24, 2015]

But of course apologizing has done Hogan no good. The WWE is also asking toy manufacturer Mattel to scrap any plans for producing new Hogan action figures [WWE reportedly tells Mattel to scrap production of Hulk Hogan Action Figures, Plus 17 things we learned at comic-con, by Justin Kendall, Between the Ropes, July 27, 2015]. Owner Vince McMahon casually told investors Hogan is no longer with the company because, “we’re interested in people who can actually compete in the ring” [WWE Conference Call Notes: NXT Praise, Vince Addresses Hogan’s Status, More by Larry Csonka, 411Mania, July 30, 2015].

McMahon’s last comment is important because the many injuries the 62-year- old wrestler accumulated during his career have left him physically unable to compete. Having been fired from WWE, Hogan has nowhere else to go and nothing else to do to support himself.

But the story doesn’t end there. Hogan’s lawyer alleges the source of this devastating leak of information is Gawker, the Cultural Marxist gossip site that Hogan is suing for publishing a sex tape of him that he claims was recorded without his knowledge. Gawker denies the charge, but has had its own difficulties recently after pointlessly “outing” an apparently homosexual married man, leading to a fierce Leftist backlash against the company.

Hogan’s lawyer cited “a potential violation of a protective order,” in accusing Gawker of ultimately being responsible for the leaked information in a desperate effort to stave off the bad publicity the outlet’s received in the wake of a separate, unrelated controversy.

Hogan’s lawyer said the embattled celeb has “literally, nowhere else to go” and that the judge is “literally, his only hope for justice.”

[‘His Career Is Done': Hulk Hogan Blames Radar Story For Ruining His Legacy In Tense Florida Court Hearing, Radar Online, July 30, 2015]

If Hogan wins the $100 million lawsuit, Gawker may be shut down [Hulk Hogan’s sex-tape lawsuit may shut down Gawker, by Cassam Looch, Metro, July 4, 2015]. He has no way forward but attack.

Yet the WWE may also suffer collateral damage. The company’s stock lost $50 million in the days after the scandal broke [Hulk Hogan Scandal Costs WWE Shareholders $50 million, by Jeremy Thomas, 411Mania, July 26, 2015]. The company is also dealing with at least some backlash from its own (mostly Democratic) fans, as it finds itself having to confiscate Hulk Hogan signs they are trying to bring into events [WWE News: HHH Announces SummerSlam Raffle, Hogan Signs Confiscated, by Jeremy Thomas, 411Mania, July 27, 2015].

More importantly, WWE still has skeletons in the closet. In a 2005 edition of the WWE television program Smackdown!, McMahon publicly used the same racial pejorative Hogan had used privately, in a scripted segment with John Cena, all while a black wrestler was standing close by:

TMZ has spoken to a WWE representative regarding the 2005 segment where McMahon uses the N-word. According to the WWE rep, the 2005 segment “was an outlandish and satirical skit involving fictional characters, similar to that of many scripted television shows and movies.”

[WWE Owner Vince McMahon is raging hypocrite, TMZ, July 25, 2015]

This isn’t the first time the WWE has had to play damage control with its history. VDARE.com readers may remember McMahon’s wife and former WWE President Linda was twice the GOP Connecticut Senate nominee, spending more money than any other person in history to seek a federal seat in two useless campaigns.

McMahon was a proto-cuckservative, offering only Beltway Right talking points on immigration, a doomed strategy in a blue state. The only beneficiaries were the consultants. Yet McMahon couldn’t even run a “safe” and non-controversial campaign because gleeful Democrats were able to exploit the WWE’s controversial past, even though the company tried to delete past footage [WWE Scrubs ‘Dated and Edgier Footage,’ Amid Linda McMahon’s Connecticut Senate Campaign, by Nick Wing, Huffington Post, September 14, 2012].

We may expect similar attacks in the future for WWE. Investors should not be surprised if the likes of Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton start demanding payouts. Indeed, the Main Stream Media has already attacked the industry in the past for “racism.” By trying to erase Hulk Hogan from history, McMahon have actually invited further attacks.

For now though, the speed of Hogan’s fall from grace is stunning. There has been only one other WWE wrestler/performer to be effectively erased from the annals of the company: in 2007, Chris Benoit killed his son and his wife, and then committed suicide. Today, Hulk Hogan, for the crime of uttering a forbidden word in a private conversation that was leaked (possibly illegally) to the media, is receiving the same Orwellian treatment.

It’s ominous, but strangely fitting. Professional wrestling, of course, is about illusion, and the character of “Hulk Hogan” once represented a confident and strong America to the naïve American children of the Reagan and Bush years.

But now the illusion is ripped away and we see the truth. It’s not just that childhood heroes aren’t what they seemed to be. It’s that the free country that Americans venerated only decades ago no longer exists.

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#1. To: nativist nationalist (#0)

I have no sympathy. Hogan had to know full well never to utter such phrases.

Now he'll pay the price, financially and in terms of his reputation.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-08-04   12:58:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: TooConservative (#1) (Edited)

I have no sympathy. Hogan had to know full well never to utter such phrases.

Now he'll pay the price, financially and in terms of his reputation.

I have tremendous sympathy for Hogan here.

First, this was a private conversation that he didn't know was being recorded, a sex tape that he didn't authorize.

Second, he was speaking in frank terms about his own daughter. He said that if she was going to be marrying a black guy, he'd at least hope he'd be a rich basketball player. That's not the sort of thing that a person should say on live TV, but it's a parent's sentiment in a private conversation.

Third, I believe in free speech, especially in private conversations. I don't believe that people should have to guard their every word.

Of course, people can punish him if they don't like what he has to say, though they'd better remember God's standard: as you measure out, it shall be measured out to you. So, everybody who publicly judges him for what he said in a private conversation had better have had perfect control of his own lips in every private conversation his entire life, or the very loss he would see inflicted on Hogan will be inflicted on him as well - in spiritual terms: the scale you use to weigh other is the scale God pulls out to weigh YOU on.

What he said was not particularly offensive. No parent wants his daughter to marry poorly, and cross-cultural issues are not nothing when speaking of family. (And what Hogan actually said was not particularly anti-black either. One could imagine the same thing said about anybody. "Well, if she's gonna marry an Irishman, at least let's hope he's a lawyer and not some belligerent drunk.)

He'll pay a price, yes. He'll pay a financial price.

As far as his reputation goes, I didn't care about him before, and now I feel sorry for him.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-08-04   13:46:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Vicomte13 (#2)

Any celeb or pol should know they can't ever use those words. In the smartphone era and with many homes and offices installing recording devices, they can never assume their words won't become public.

These people live in a fishbowl. They choose to. So there are repercussions for their privacy.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-08-04   14:33:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: TooConservative (#3) (Edited)

These people live in a fishbowl. They choose to. So there are repercussions for their privacy.

This is why I support Trump. He says what he thinks, people try to hold him accountable, and that causes people like me to SUPPORT HIM MORE, precisely BECAUSE people are trying to "hold him accountable".

The "accountability" is that they're going after him is to increase his power. And I think that's great.

They're going after Hogan for what he said in a private conversation. Therefore, I like Hogan more than I did before. It's not him, or what he said, it's his enemies.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-08-04   15:37:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Vicomte13 (#4)

Therefore, I like Hogan more than I did before. It's not him, or what he said, it's his enemies.

Choosing who you like based on their enemies is kinda weak. And I think you know that. I think you find Trump entertaining and enjoy the idea that his campaign will make the GOP so radioactive that they can't win in 2016. You favor a Hitlery/Sanders/Biden victory in 2016 anyway.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-08-04   16:47:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: TooConservative (#5)

I think you find Trump entertaining and enjoy the idea that his campaign will make the GOP so radioactive that they can't win in 2016. You favor a Hitlery/Sanders/Biden victory in 2016 anyway.

I do not favor a Hillary win. I don't favor a Jeb win. A pox on both houses.

Sanders is a joke.

Biden is interesting. He'd be a decent President.

I'm not interested in "making the GOP radioactive". The GOP has made itself radioactive. I think Trump can win. And the reason he can is precisely because he does not adhere to the stupid aspects of Republican policy, but he doesn't adhere to the stupid aspects of Democrat policy either, and he's not afraid to be controversial and raise hell.

The raising hell and being unafraid is part is important.

If it's Jeb versus Hillary, I guess I favor Jeb, because I think Hillary is a murderer. But I won't for either.

I very much favor Biden over Hillary. Somebody's going to win the election, and it will probably be a Democrat. Sanders is a joke. Hillary is Lady MacBeth. Biden would be decent, and entertaining.

I won't vote for any of the Republicans except Cruz, Huckabee or Santorum, but none of them will be the nominee. I'd be excited about voting for Trump.

Yes, in part because he is entertaining. But mostly because he says what he thinks, and I agree with some of the most controversial things he says. Also, I think he's an effective leader.

So, I support Trump because I LIKE Trump and want to vote for him. It's like Sarah Palin. There's a cultural aspect to this. Palin and Trump are "like me", and I get them, and I want people "like me" in charge. Biden is sort of "like me", and so I like him. I'm not interested in Trump as a spoiler. I'm interested because I think Trump can WIN, and because I want to vote for him.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-08-04   16:58:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Vicomte13 (#6)

I very much favor Biden over Hillary. Somebody's going to win the election, and it will probably be a Democrat.

I see why you like him. Biden has never been about money, the one good thing you can say about him. He just isn't money/possession oriented. It is rare for a pol, given their access to the tycoon class.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-08-04   17:10:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: TooConservative, Vicomte13, Nolu Chan (#3)

Was this really a faked celebrity sex tape? Lot's of those turn out to be done on purpose and then the celebrity can save face by claiming it was stolen because a sex tape is still seen as low class. But in this case I think Hulk actually was taped behind his back. It has been in courts for a while - I don't get why the law allows this - some states allow secret taping if one of the people is aware and others don't allow at all. I think. I will ask Nolu his law opinion.

But if this is Hulk talking to a woman in private he had sex with then he should be given slack. I think the WWE is just being careful. The WWE is not exactly an empoyer that has wrestlers back. Everything I read about the WWE tells me they look out for WWE and wrestlers are indentured servants - even if well paid ones.

Pericles  posted on  2015-08-04   18:11:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: TooConservative, Vicomte13 (#7) (Edited)

very much favor Biden over Hillary. Somebody's going to win the election, and it will probably be a Democrat.

I see why you like him. Biden has never been about money, the one good thing you can say about him. He just isn't money/possession oriented. It is rare for a pol, given their access to the tycoon class.

Biden scares me because he has always been pro war and intervention - he is one of those who wants the USA to do humanitarian wars a lot. I am sure he sees that as a virtue.

As for Clinton, I recall months ago TC and I talking about how horrible she is at being a politician and she is very vulnerable if she came up against someone who knew what he was doing.

Also, on the political shows it said that Biden's son on his death bed, asked his dad to run to prevent the Clintons from getting the WH.

We forget that not all Dems like the Clintons.

Pericles  posted on  2015-08-04   18:15:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Pericles (#9)

Also, on the political shows it said that Biden's son on his death bed, asked his dad to run to prevent the Clintons from getting the WH.

Dem pols like to enact these little deathbed dramas for their voters. You may recall previous versions with Gore, the Xlintons, etc. Grief theater is a staple of Dem politics, to use raw emotion to sway or motivate base voters. It isn't an appeal to reason.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-08-04   18:20:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: Pericles (#9)

Biden scares me because he has always been pro war and intervention - he is one of those who wants the USA to do humanitarian wars a lot. I am sure he sees that as a virtue.

Well, I used to be like that. And if we really DID that, I probably would still be like that.

But we don't, and we don't go to war to win, so I'm not.

Hillary is a mean bitch who will kill anybody who gets in her way, foreign or domestic. She'd kill me for calling her that, if what I have to say on this obscure chat board made a difference.

The Republicans, except Rand Paul, all look like they'll go marching off to war to preserve the empire too. So I'm afraid that on this subject, too, just like on abortion, what I believe isn't going to get represented well.

Still, I think that some would be more judicious than others. On the Democrat side, Biden is to be preferred to Clinton in every way.

The Democrats are going to have a candidate, and that candidate may very well win. I don't think any person in his right mind (who wasn't a Clinton insider), given the choice, would choose Clinton over Biden.

On the Republican side...well, I'll stop picking on them. I like Trump. I like Huckabee. I like Paul. I don't really like Cruz or Santorum - there are aspects of their personalities that set me on edge - but I'd probably vote for them. Jeb Bush seems like a decent fellow, along with Pataki. I'm not voting for them, though.

Given Republican Establishment power, it is difficult for me to see Trump being allowed to win the nomination, but I hope he does. I'll vote for Trump in a general election, and I may even go down and make sure I can vote in the Republican primary if Trump is on the ballot.

But if they screw Trump, or if Trump is walking away with it, and Biden is in, I'll register as a Democrat to vote for Biden in the Democrat primary.

There will be two candidates. On the Republican side there's one I really like and a few I tolerate enough to give them a chance. On the Democrat side, Biden is ok. Hillary is a nightmare.

I give the Democrats better than even odds of winning the White House, so it's real, real important that the Democrat nominee be Joe Biden.

He'd be an OK President. No sex scandals. No personal corruption. He'll say off the wall things sometimes, but being a goof occasionally is better than being evil. That's it - the Democrats are going to have a candidate, with a high probability of winning, so it's important that that candidate not be evil, and Biden's not evil. He's wrong, about his approach to abortion. Which is why I won't vote for him in the general election. But I might vote for him to make sure he's the one on the Democrat ticket.

Trump's my man. Failing him. Meh. Nobody.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-08-04   19:03:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: Pericles, TooConservative, Vicomte13 (#8)

Was this really a faked celebrity sex tape? Lot's of those turn out to be done on purpose and then the celebrity can save face by claiming it was stolen because a sex tape is still seen as low class. But in this case I think Hulk actually was taped behind his back. It has been in courts for a while - I don't get why the law allows this - some states allow secret taping if one of the people is aware and others don't allow at all. I think. I will ask Nolu his law opinion.

An opinion would require knowledge of applicable Florida law in 2006, and whatever applied to the 2012 leak and who leaked it. A possibility is a revenge leak by Todd Clem.

A litigation document appears to make clear that the alleged sex acts occurred in 2006. The leak occurred six years later in 2012.

The case is in a Florida court with a transcript allegedly filed under seal. Hulk was practicing his wrestling moves on his former (then current??) best friend’s wife (Todd Clem/Heather Clem), and has sued for invasion of privacy.

http://www.nationalenquirer.com/celebrity/hulk-hogan-racist-scandal-wrestling-caught-on-tape-saying-n-word-daughter-brooke-exclusive

Using language so hate-filled and vile it would shock even his most ardent fans, Hulk brazenly blustered to Heather Clem – the wife of his former pal Bubba “The Love Sponge,” with whom he was covertly filmed having sex with in 2012 – that he was an unabashed “racist."

[...]

In a startling exchange, the 61-year-old told Clem – who he sued for invasion of privacy after their XXX tape was leaked to a website – about his frustrations with blonde bombshell Brooke, 27.

[...]

Radar and The ENQUIRER has learned explosive transcripts of the loathsome conversation have been filed in a Florida court, under seal, in a bid to prevent them from being publicly released.

But an extensive news probe uncovered five independent sources who provided the dramatic contents of the tape to this publication.

http://documents.gawker.com/2d15-2857-gawker-media-llc-v-bollea-1715400116

IN THE DISTRICT COURT OF APPEAL OF FLORIDA SECOND DISTRICT GAWKER MEDIA, LLC; NICK DENTON; and A J. DAULERIO,
Petitioners,
v.
TERRY GENE BOLLEA, professionally known as HULK HOGAN, Respondent,

Opinion filed July 2, 2015,

Petition for Writ of Mandamus to the Circuit Court for Pinellas County; Pamela A.M. Campbell, Judge.

[attorneys ommitted]

NORTHCUTT, Judge.

This controversy sprang from a seed planted sometime in 2006, when Terry Bollea, a celebrated former professional wrestler known publicly as "Hulk Hogan," had sex with Heather Clem, then married to Bollea's friend Todd Clem, a "shock jock" radio personality whose nom de scene is "Bubba the Love Sponge." The encounter was videotaped, with audio, allegedly Without Bollea's knowledge. Six years jater, In October 2012, a celebrity news and gossip website named Gawker.com posted an excerpt of the videotape to the Internet. Litigation ensued.

After a brief initial foray into federal court, in December 2012 Bollea filed suit in Florida's Sixth Circuit seeking injunctive relief and damages from Heather Clem, sundry entities and individuals affillated with the Gawker site, and others. The circuit court case is ongoing, and it has darkened our door more than once.1 Before us today is a mandamus proceeding in which the Gawker defendants contend that the circuit court's June 19, 2015, order setting trial for the week of July 6 deviates from Florida Rule of Civil Procedure 1.440. Indeed the order violates the rule, and we grant the petition.

To place the issue in proper context, it must be noted that one of the initial Gawker defendants was a Budapest-based company named Blogwire Hungary Szellemi Alkotast Hasznositó, KFT. BlogWire contested the attempted exercise of Florida long-arm jurisdiction over it, and it appealed the circuit court's order denying its

1 Bioawire Hung. Szellemi Alkotst Hasznost. KFT v. Bollea, 162 So, 3d 1116 (Fla. 2d DCA 2015); Gawker Media. LLC v. Bollea. 160 So. 3d 424 (Fia. 2d DCA 2014); Bollea v, Clem. 151 So, 3d 1241 (Fla. 2d DCA 2014); Gawker Media, LLC v. Bollea 129 So. 3d 1196 (Fla, 2d DCA 2014),

-2-

motion to dismiss on that ground. Consequently, and significantly, long after the other defendants either had been dismissed from the case or had filed answers and affirmative defenses to Bollea's complaint, Blogwire had not done so. On April 17, 2015, this court reversed and remanded for further proceedings on Blogwire's motion to dismiss. Blogwire Hung. Szellemi Alkotst Hasznost, KFT v, Bollea, 162 So. 3d 1116 (Fla. 2d DCA 2015),

While Blogwire's appeal was pending in the fall of 2014, Bollea grew eager to place at least part of the action at issue. He moved the circuit court to sever the claims against Blogwire from the balance of the case and to set the claims against the other defendants for trial Over the Gawker defendants' strenuous objections, the court granted the motion. By order dated November 4, 2014, the court severed the claims as mentioned, and it tentatively scheduled trial against all defendants other than Blogwire for July 2015. At a hearing the next month, the court finalized the trial date as July 6, memorializing the same in a written order setting trial entered February 18, 2015. The Gawker defendants challenged both rulings by petitions for writ of certiorari, contending that severing defendants is not permitted and that, because Blogwire had not answered the complaint, the case was not at issue and could not be set for trial. We consolidated the petitions and, on May 7, 2015, we quashed both orders,2 Gawker Media, LLC v. Bollea, Case Nos, 2D14-5591, 2D15-1259, consolidated.

2 Our May 7, 2015, order simply informed the parties of our ruling and advised that an opinion explaining our reasoning would follow. However, subsequent events, which we will describe, may have mooted that proceeding.

[snip]

nolu chan  posted on  2015-08-04   20:28:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: nolu chan (#12)

I am trying to read this but can't get past the image of Hulk Hogan having sex....so was Hulk in on making a sex tape and he pretended he was angry or was it done behind his back and if it was how is it that the tapers are not prosecuted....

Pericles  posted on  2015-08-05   0:32:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: nativist nationalist (#0)

According to a “joint investigation” by the National Enquirer and Radar Online, the decision came down after additional footage from Hogan’s 2012 sex tape leaked, showing the wrestler making racist comments about his daughter Brooke’s boyfriend, whom he believed to be black.

Well,to be fair to Hogan,the guy DOES have nappy hair,lips like two bananas,gorilla-like nose,dark skin,and shit for taste when it comes to clothing and music.

Who can blame him for jumping to that conclusion?

He was probably just pissed at his daughter for whoring herself out in a vain effort to keep what everybody laughingly calls her "music career" alive.

Somebody needs to explain to her that if she hasn't managed to get it going after all these years it just ain't going to happen,and she needs to go ahead and make a porn video so she can get her reality show back on the air.

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-08-05   1:16:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: TooConservative (#7)

Biden has never been about money

He probably doesn't even know what it is. Like most career politicians,it's probably been decades since he has paid for anything.

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-08-05   1:20:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: Pericles (#9)

Biden scares me because he has always been pro war and intervention - he is one of those who wants the USA to do humanitarian wars a lot. I am sure he sees that as a virtue.

I think it is more a case of him wanting to see full-employment at the union defense industry plants in Dim territory. Peace be bad for bidnez.

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-08-05   1:23:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: Vicomte13 (#11) (Edited)

But we don't, and we don't go to war to win, so I'm not.

I agree. Seems like we go to war to keep the unemployment figures down and union jobs up than for any other reason.

It's all about the Benjamins.

Unfortunately there are real people out there getting crippled for life and dying as a side effect of this,both American and foreign.

I'm old fashioned. I think that if we go to war to kill and maim someone we call our enemy,they should actually be OUR enemy,not a threat to the Sauds or anyone else with mega bucks and empires at risk. Even then it should always be as a last resort because we have no other choice,not for profit.

The Democrats are going to have a candidate, and that candidate may very well win.

Nope. It's the alleged Republicans "turn to win" in order to keep the illusoino of a Two Party Nation alive.

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-08-05   1:27:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: sneakypete (#17)

Unfortunately there are real people out there getting crippled for life and dying as a side effect of this,both American and foreign.

I'm old fashioned. I think that if we go to war to kill and maim someone we call our enemy,they should actually be OUR enemy,not a threat to the Sauds or anyone else with mega bucks and empires at risk. Even then it should always be as a last resort because we have no other choice,not for profit.

Exactly. Exactly. And exactly.

Word.

You're dead right.

Wars kill people. They kill them and cripple and maim them for life. Which is bad.

They kill and cripple and maim your own people, which is worse.

And if they are done without conviction, the accomplish all of their killing and crippling, over long periods, without a positive outcome or a resolution. Pain, death, horror - for nothing.

Which is why I insist that if this country is going to commit its men, and now women too, to war - if we're going to send our people off to die, and many more to be crippled for life - then we had goddamned well better have the CONVICTION in our cause such that we are willing to lash ourselves to the mast and nail ourselves to the cross, so to speak, by a full-on, no-wiggle-room, Declaration of WAR.

If we're not sure enough to formally stand up before the world and shout, through Congress, "the United States DECLARES WAR" - with all that means, with all of the changes to contracts and insurance policies, and with all of the ability of the government, then, to tax the economy at 98% and requisition and draft - all of those things that fully harness a nation for WAR, so that the enemy will be crushed SWIFTLY and permanently, and as few as possible of our OWN PEOPLE are crippled, maimed and killed, then I completely oppose it.

The War on Terror, if it were really a WAR, had my full support from the instant the god damed motherfucking rags tried to kill me at work on 9/11, and DID kill thousands of people right down there with me. That deserved WAR - full on declaration of war. Not 120,000 troops to get shot up in the deser. 2 million troops, to overwhelm everything, hunt down all resistance, and kill it all, and vet every man, woman and child in the conquered countries.

You declare war. That means that if resistance comes across the Syrian border or the Iranian border, you go right in and destroy those countries too. And if you have to go to a draft and put ten million men in the field and harness the full economy of the USA, as in World War II, then you DO IT, because it is war, and in war, the purpose of the nation is complete victory and the total annihilation of her enemies.

14 years on, you're not still losing troops at outposts, because if a region would not stop fighting, there are no males left alive to fight. And if that doesn't do it, no females. It is war, and war ends with the complete submission of the enemy, or their extinction. They become peaceful, or you make a desert and call it peace. Either way, you win, and you do it with such overwhelming forces that you sacrifice as few of your own people as possible.

OR YOU DON'T GO DO IT AT ALL.

In war, there is no half-measure. That is why you have to DECLARE IT.

Because once war is declared, then it is real, and during REAL war, domestic political opposition to the was is sedition, and you imprison whoever organizes it, and you censor the press, and you do not let any viewpoint that will diminish the morale, focus and purpose.

Had we been at WAR in Iraq, those Abu Graib photos would have never been published. 40 years after they war our grandchildren could wring their hands over what we did during their century of peace.

Do the Germans or Japanese attack us anymore? No. Do the Apache? No. Do the Confederates? No. If it's WAR, you finish the job.

If it's not important enough to declare war, if you're not certain enough of your cause to have Congress Declare WAR, then you do not go fight. You stay at peace until the situation is bad enough the Congress declares war. And then you take the wealth of the country, and its manpower, and you organize it, and you hurl it at the enemy with overwhelming force, you overbear him and kill him, and preserve you own people.

You declare war and win, or you do not go at all. There is no in-between. These in-between police actions have killed and crippled a half million Americans and left us bankrupt.

On September 11 I was screaming for war. And on the 12th and 13trh.

Bush should have been on the floor of Congress doing what FDR did on December 8, 1941: asking for a Declaration of War - the legal declaration of unity of purpose, with all that follows from that.

Instead, he told us to go shopping, and sent tens of thousands to get shot up. It should have been millions, and it should have been over ten years ago.

You go to war, or you stay home shopping, There is no half measure acceptable.

That's what you said, in fewer words. And you are 100% right.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-08-05   7:23:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: TooConservative (#1)

I have no sympathy. Hogan had to know full well never to utter such phrases.

Now he'll pay the price, financially and in terms of his reputation.

You're an idiot.

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-08-05   8:03:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: TooConservative (#3)

Any celeb or pol should know they can't ever use those words. In the smartphone era and with many homes and offices installing recording devices, they can never assume their words won't become public.

These people live in a fishbowl. They choose to. So there are repercussions for their privacy.

Another idiotic statement. No wonder you support Perry.

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-08-05   8:05:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: TooConservative (#5)

Choosing who you like based on their enemies is kinda weak. And I think you know that. I think you find Trump entertaining and enjoy the idea that his campaign will make the GOP so radioactive that they can't win in 2016. You favor a Hitlery/Sanders/Biden victory in 2016 anyway.

3 for 3 what is wrong with you? Did you eat some stupid?

The only one's radioactive are the pieces of shit you would walk over hot coals to vote for, Rubio, Bush, Perry, Christie.

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-08-05   8:08:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: A K A Stone (#21)

My goodness, did you get out of the grouchy side of bed today?

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-08-05   8:13:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: TooConservative (#22)

No I'm in a good mood. Your comments were lets just say disagreeable.

Nothing persoal, Have a great day.

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-08-05   8:14:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: TooConservative (#10) (Edited)

Grief theater is a staple of Dem politics, to use raw emotion to sway or motivate base voters. It isn't an appeal to reason.

Like Willie Horton ads, f'rinstance (because, you know, Republicans never appeal to emotion, only reason).

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-08-05   8:47:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: Vicomte13 (#18) (Edited)

Which is why I insist that if this country is going to commit its men, and now women too, to war - if we're going to send our people off to die, and many more to be crippled for life - then we had goddamned well better have the CONVICTION in our cause such that we are willing to lash ourselves to the mast and nail ourselves to the cross, so to speak, by a full-on, no-wiggle-room, Declaration of WAR.

If we're not sure enough to formally stand up before the world and shout, through Congress, "the United States DECLARES WAR" - with all that means, with all of the changes to contracts and insurance policies, and with all of the ability of the government, then, to tax the economy at 98% and requisition and draft - all of those things that fully harness a nation for WAR, so that the enemy will be crushed SWIFTLY and permanently, and as few as possible of our OWN PEOPLE are crippled, maimed and killed, then I completely oppose it.

I couldn't have said it better myself. This is one area where we are in complete agreement.

I would only add "Do NOT have our young people kill and maim foreign people for life,and destroy their homes,their factories,and their infrastructure for low unemployment numbers,union jobs,or political capital,and then have them have to spend the rest of their lives dealing with the things they did in innocence because they trusted you shitheads in public office!"

I'm pretty sure you will agree with that,also.

On September 11 I was screaming for war. And on the 12th and 13trh.

Bush should have been on the floor of Congress doing what FDR did on December 8, 1941: asking for a Declaration of War - the legal declaration of unity of purpose, with all that follows from that.

Yes,with Saudi Arabia and the Wahabbi's,NOT Iraq.

IMHO,we should still take those MoFos out and take them out to the point it will be 500 years before they are heard from again

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-08-05   9:28:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: Vicomte13 (#24)

Like Willie Horton ads, f'rinstance (because, you know, Republicans never appeal to emotion, only reason).

Or Rove's tactic of telling SC voters via robocall that McCain's adopted black/Asian daughter was a child he conceived out of wedlock while a POW. Which helped cause his narrow defeat in SC and foiled his bid for the 2000 nomination.

Nevertheless, what I call grief theater relies on a pol standing a podium, crying over dead loved ones in order to capitalize on it politically. Dems are masters of the art.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-08-05   9:35:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: sneakypete, Vicomte13 (#16)

Biden scares me because he has always been pro war and intervention - he is one of those who wants the USA to do humanitarian wars a lot. I am sure he sees that as a virtue.

I think it is more a case of him wanting to see full-employment at the union defense industry plants in Dim territory. Peace be bad for bidnez.

That is probably true but it can also be an ideology for Biden and many in DC - Sen Graham and McCain are examples on the GOP side. See Biden get all animated when talking about bombing the Serbs for example and that was like 20 years ago.

There used to be a libertarian poster named Burkeman1 way back in the day and we had a discussion on Biden and he guessed Obama picked Biden or Biden was picked for him to tell the Military Industrial Complex that by picking Biden he would look out for their interests.

Pericles  posted on  2015-08-05   9:42:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: Pericles (#27)

Burkeman1

I remember him.

We had a fascinating discussion one time about why - Constitutionally wise - Calvin Coolidge was one of the greatest presidents.

(Hint: when he left the presidency, instead of lobbyists and donors building libraries and monuments to him, he went home to Vermont.

And sat on his front porch)

Rufus T Firefly  posted on  2015-08-05   9:59:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: Pericles (#27)

There used to be a libertarian poster named Burkeman1 way back in the day and we had a discussion on Biden and he guessed Obama picked Biden or Biden was picked for him to tell the Military Industrial Complex that by picking Biden he would look out for their interests.

Could be.

It also could be he was the whitest dumb face they could find,and they needed a white face for election purposes.

I do remember Burkeman1,and wish he (or she) still posted here.

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-08-05   10:00:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: TooConservative (#26)

I still think Trump went into this as con and got swept up in this but I am willing to give him a shot because I like how shot down the professional politicians. All politicians have these fake persona and ways of speaking - you know - that earnest sincere fake salesman persona they all take on. And Clinton is the worst speaker ever - she starts speaking softly and then RAISES HER VOICE AT THE END and sounds like a robot duck.

Pericles  posted on  2015-08-05   10:13:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: Rufus T Firefly (#28)

Burkeman1

I remember him.

We had a fascinating discussion one time about why - Constitutionally wise - Calvin Coolidge was one of the greatest presidents.

(Hint: when he left the presidency, instead of lobbyists and donors building libraries and monuments to him, he went home to Vermont.

And sat on his front porch)

I was part of that conversation I think. I mentioned how presidential libraries only started after WW2 and was a sign of the imperial presidency - like building pyramids for the emperor or some huge tomb monument to the late god king, etc.

Now it is expected all presidents have a library and they have grown to monster proportions.

Pericles  posted on  2015-08-05   10:15:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: TooConservative (#26)

Nevertheless, what I call grief theater relies on a pol standing a podium, crying over dead loved ones in order to capitalize on it politically. Dems are masters of the art.

Wasn't that what Gore did? Someone died in a car accident also that Gore mentioned. And Clinton's bastard upraising was somehow endearing.

Pericles  posted on  2015-08-05   10:16:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: sneakypete (#25)

We agree. I focused on our people. But you're absolutely right about the foreigners too.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-08-05   10:22:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: Pericles (#32)

Wasn't that what Gore did? Someone died in a car accident also that Gore mentioned.

Gore had a double. A sister who died of lung cancer (after he had "hoed it") and a son killed by an auto. See Biden's first campaign over his wife and 2 kids getting killed by a drunk driver, leaving him to raise the other two sons alone, commuting home to Delaware via Amtrak daily so they could have a more normal life.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-08-05   10:23:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: TooConservative (#26)

Or Rove's tactic of telling SC voters via robocall that McCain's adopted black/Asian daughter was a child he conceived out of wedlock while a POW. Which helped cause his narrow defeat in SC and foiled his bid for the 2000 nomination.

That was despicable, and I never forgave W for it either. But then, back in his first run, I was an active McCain supporter, gathering signatures for him in New York City, etc. I found the Republican base to be like a stone wall: Bush was their man, and they were almost uniform in their rejection of wanting McCain on the ballot.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-08-05   10:25:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: Vicomte13 (#35) (Edited)

But then, back in his first run, I was an active McCain supporter, gathering signatures for him in New York City, etc.

Damn. My condolences. No wonder you didn't enjoy being a Republican.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-08-05   10:56:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: TooConservative (#36)

Damn. My condolences. No wonder you didn't enjoy being a Republican.

It was a coruscating experience. Here I had the Staten Island Borough President call me at work, thanks to having been the Founder and President of the Columbia Law School Republicans, and my Annapolis tie, I think, and asking me to take up the cause of getting signatures for McCain from Manhattan.

So they gave me the donors list and I began calling. I spent a weekend calling and spare moments at work too. Even took a day off to do it. I remember checking off over 360 names that I had called, all registered Republicans, donors, I think. TWO New York Republicans were willing to sign the petition to get McCain on the primary ballot. TWO. So many of the others were not simple "No thank you's", they were belittling, hostile, or downright nasty.

From this, I learned an appreciation for just how truly awful the job of the telemarketer is, so I'm always nice to those guys even when they call me. I know they're trying to earn a living, and I know from personal experience that people - even people who are supposedly on your side - treat you like shit when you call them on the phone.

Still, I pollwatched. I set up a Republican Club at New York City's Ivy League law school - it surprised me that none existed; and the Democrats responded by setting up their own club too. I cold called and gathered (two whole) signatures for McCain and got my hide ripped off me. I fought the good fight as I understood it.

And eventually the Republicans won all the marbles - the very thing that I had spoken of in debate with my Democrat colleagues at Columbia: "Just you wait!", I told them. "Eventually we're going to win the House and Senate, and the White House, and the Supreme Court, THEN you'll see!"

They laughed at me and said I was a dreamer.

Well, we did win both houses of Congress, and the White House, and the Supreme Court, and something like 33 of the 50 statehouse when W was President. They got all that power, and they didn't do what they told me they were going to do with it. They did PART of what they said they were going to do - the economic part, that favored the rich - the part I always held my nose and tolerated in order to get the rest.

In short, I was a duped rube, a trusting fool.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-08-05   11:52:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: Vicomte13 (#37)

I cold called and gathered (two whole) signatures for McCain and got my hide ripped off me. I fought the good fight as I understood it.

You have to admit that the punishment fit the crime.     : )

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-08-05   12:00:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: Pericles (#13)

I am trying to read this but can't get past the image of Hulk Hogan having sex....so was Hulk in on making a sex tape and he pretended he was angry or was it done behind his back and if it was how is it that the tapers are not prosecuted....

I lack information to directly answer your question. It is the subject of litigation that was filed under seal, but there have been some leaks. If I had to make my best guess, Hogan was not in on the release of the tape and my impression is that he denies knowing the tape was being made. He screwed his best friend's wife and the tape was evidence of that. My best guess is that his former best friend, The Love Sponge, six years after the fact found the tape and leaked it. Gawker is a party to the litigation.

nolu chan  posted on  2015-08-05   13:40:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: Vicomte13 (#33)

But you're absolutely right about the foreigners too.

Exactly. History never operates in a vacuum. It like throwing a stone in a pond and watching the ripples spread out.

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-08-05   14:14:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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