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Title: American traitor, Israeli hero
Source: Politico
URL Source: http://www.politico.eu/article/amer ... than-polllard-natanyahu-obama/
Published: Aug 3, 2015
Author: Andrew Bacevich
Post Date: 2015-08-03 15:04:28 by nativist nationalist
Keywords: None
Views: 841
Comments: 19

The Pollard case shows that the interests of Israel and America are often sharply at odds.

The U.S. government’s announcement that Jonathan Pollard will soon gain his release from prison is cause for celebration in Israel, and understandably so. There, Pollard is considered a patriot and hero. By engaging in espionage on Israel’s behalf, he placed himself at great risk. Once caught, he endured considerable punishment — 30 years in a federal penitentiary. Pollard has more than earned the gala welcome that will no doubt be his, if and when he arrives at Ben Gurion Airport.

Americans have equal reason to classify Pollard as a despicable traitor, who in spending all those years behind bars got precisely what he deserved. Pollard betrayed the country of his birth and is no more worthy of sympathy than convicted spies like Aldrich Ames or Robert Hanssen or John Anthony Walker. Whether Pollard acted out of love for Israel or from greed — both motives were seemingly in play — hardly matters. And although his legions of defenders contend that he caused no actual harm to the United States, senior U.S. defense and intelligence officials, past and present, vehemently disagree.

This difference of opinion regarding the about-to-be-sprung Pollard presents Americans with a teachable moment. Sadly, we can count on American politicians of both parties to close their eyes to what that moment has to offer. Here is an opportunity sure to go to waste.

Israelis have no problem grasping why their take on Pollard and ours should differ. They fully understand that on many occasions U.S. and Israeli security interests are at odds. And when that occurs they do not doubt what comes first. It’s Americans, insisting that “no daylight” exists between the United States and Israel, who perpetuate a false understanding of this relationship — a pretense that may benefit Israel, but certainly does not benefit the United States.

That the government of Israel paid an employee of the United States government to provide it with exceedingly sensitive intelligence is but one example of Israeli actions that should puncture that pretense. Israeli officials make no bones about the fact that they will do anything necessary to ensure the security of the Jewish state. The Pollard case reminds us that they mean what they say, even to the point of compromising the security of their principal (and perhaps only) ally.

Their hero is simultaneously our traitor because the prerequisites of Israeli safety and well-being differ from the prerequisites of American safety and well-being. Those differences, on matters ranging from nuclear weapons to settlement expansion to the creation of a Palestinian state, are anything but trivial or cosmetic. They are, in fact, fundamental, comparable to Washington’s differences with Moscow over Ukraine or with Beijing over the South China Sea.

State security

On all matters touching on security, Israel plays hardball. It does not view itself as beholden to the United States or bound by American concerns, a reality that Israeli governments regularly affirm in word and deed. That seriousness ought to command respect. It should also elicit an equally serious American response. That response should take the form of a candid acknowledgment that where U.S. and Israeli security interests diverge, the United States need not be bound by Israeli concerns.

In negotiating a nuclear accord with Iran, of course, the Obama administration has done just that, which is what makes the deal such a startling departure from standard American practice. Obama has refused to defer to the demands of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and he just might get away with it.

Opponents of that deal have responded with a torrent of criticism. What’s so striking about their objections is that they consist largely of talking points that Netanyahu himself might have drafted. Obama’s American critics fail even to make any effort to distinguish between the U.S. interests and Israeli interests involved, preferring to sustain the fiction that those interests align.

Indeed, the critics seem less interested in evaluating the pros and cons of the agreement than in affirming their own “passionate attachment” to Israel. That phrase, coined by George Washington, warns of the dangers that result from indulging in misplaced affection for another country.

In what has become one of the most bizarre rituals of American politics, those aspiring to high office seek to establish the legitimacy of their candidacy by proclaiming to the heavens their depthless regard for Israel. Any U.S. politician out on the stump publically professing undying love for Canada or Mexico, America’s nearest neighbors, would be considered a whack job. A candidate declaring his or her love for Israel evokes bipartisan applause.

To their credit, Israelis profess no comparable passionate attachment to the U.S. Their fealty is to the state of Israel and rightly so. They reserve their admiration and gratitude for the likes of Jonathan Pollard, the American traitor.

In doing so, they make an important point, which Americans would do well to contemplate. Israelis understand that we and they are two different nations and two different peoples. The Pollard case and the Israeli response to news of Pollard’s impending release testify to the enduring nature of that separation.

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#1. To: nativist nationalist (#0)

As long as we have this end times Evangelical wing thinking that Israel will usher in the return of Jesus we will have politicians lay on this slavish devotion on that foreign country. Why don't we make Israel the 51st state and be done with it?

Pericles  posted on  2015-08-03   15:37:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: Pericles (#1)

Ultimately what you identify IS the reason that American political thinking goes non-linear when it comes to Israel.

One of the most interesting things about Obama is that he is the only President we've had in the past 40 years who has stood directly against Israel's declared interests with this Iran deal and in other things.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-08-03   16:11:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Vicomte13 (#2)

Did you vote for Obama?

Don  posted on  2015-08-03   16:26:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Don (#3)

Did you vote for Obama?

Of course not. He's a babykiller.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-08-03   16:52:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Vicomte13 (#4)

Ok. You just seem to be really enthusiastic about him.

Don  posted on  2015-08-03   17:08:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Don (#5) (Edited)

Ok. You just seem to be really enthusiastic about him.

Not enthusiastic about many of his policy choices. He's a committed babykiller, and that comes through loud and clear in the way he rigged Obamacare.

I am quite impressed by his leadership abilities, however. The man came into paralyzed Washington and rammed through a particular approach to the economic crisis, and then national health insurance, various treaties that the Republicans say they oppose, and a foreign policy that is independent of Israel. And he does this without control of Congress, now, or the Supreme Court.

He is a very effective leader.

The other thing I give him credit for is that he does what he says he is going to do. He had various policy objectives, regarding the war, regarding health care, regarding trade, regarding immigration. And he has bulled forward and done a great deal of it.

I look back at the Presidents who preceded him, and I see lots of talk, but compromise, caving, and not doing what they said. Obama is very consistent. He says it. He does it. And he uses the full measure of his power to force his view through.

Republicans refuse to do that. It's not that they are principled either: their immigration stance is unprincipled, their trade stance is unprincipled, their stance on health care is incoherent, their conduct of foreign policy and the war when they were in charge was incompetent. Republicans campaign on things, but then actually DO a different agenda, a hidden one (not all that hidden, really) when they get power. Obama campaigns on what he is going to do, and then he does it.

And he doesn't take "No" for an answer. He leads, strongly. He takes on his political enemies and uses his power to plow them under, if he has to, to get his way.

Republicans DO fight, sometimes, but they only do it over things like the estate tax and protection of dividend tax exceptions - things that benefit the wealthy. For the stuff they campaign before the general electorate, they never use their power, always cave - it's predictable.

And they claim that it's "the system", that they "would, if they could, but, you know, the system, the opposition…". But Obama puts the lie to that. He's never controlled the court. He doesn't control Congress. But he keeps plowing forward, exploiting every weakness of his political enemies. And he wins.

He's a regular Patton of politics.

Too bad he's a babykiller, because I would really love to have a guy that effective and skilled at winning on my side. But I don't.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-08-03   19:48:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Vicomte13 (#6)

It almost seems as though he has supernatural power helping him?

Don  posted on  2015-08-03   20:10:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Don (#7)

t almost seems as though he has supernatural power helping him?

God is always in charge.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-08-03   21:02:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Vicomte13 (#8)

God is most certainly in charge. The Bible still talks about the god of this world and gave us the Book of Revelation. The Bible also talks about the evil spirit that subverts nations and people.

By the way, in the spiritual sense, we are not all children of God. John in Chapter 8 talks about that.

I'm not saying that Obama is the Anti-christ. He does seem to have "the Devil's own luck." He is not the most brilliant politician we have ever seen. I don't think he is that smart on his own volition.

Don  posted on  2015-08-03   22:24:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Don, Vicomte13 (#9)

He is not the most brilliant politician we have ever seen. I don't think he is that smart on his own volition.

He's been smart enough to elected twice and get most of all the fundamental change in America that he wanted.....and he still has a year and a half to do more of the same.

потому что Бог хочет это тот путь

SOSO  posted on  2015-08-03   22:32:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: SOSO (#10)

Try reading my entire post.

Don  posted on  2015-08-03   22:35:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: Don (#9)

God is most certainly in charge. The Bible still talks about the god of this world and gave us the Book of Revelation. The Bible also talks about the evil spirit that subverts nations and people.

By the way, in the spiritual sense, we are not all children of God. John in Chapter 8 talks about that.

I'm not saying that Obama is the Anti-christ. He does seem to have "the Devil's own luck." He is not the most brilliant politician we have ever seen. I don't think he is that smart on his own volition.

Well, I don't see anything particularly "anti-Christic" about Obama, frankly.

The worst strike against him is that he is strongly pro-abortion. Now, that is certainly a fatal moral flaw. He's a babykiller. But then, so is the majority of the country. So is nearly the entirety of his party, and the ruling portion of the Republican party. I've said it before but it bears repeating: the Supreme Court has been under Republican control since 1969. Roe v. Wade was decided 7-2 by a court whose majority was appointed by Republican Presidents. Casey, the 1986 case that expanded abortion rights and entrenched them was decided by a Republican Supreme Court, including two Reagan appointees that were part of - and wrote the decision. Reagan, like Romney, was pro-abortion as Governor of California. Like Romney, he claimed the have had a "change of heart" - and maybe he did - but then again, he appointed O'Connor and Kennedy to the bench. Republicans have claimed to be pro-life, but they have controlled the course every day for the past 46 years and could strike down Roe if they wanted to. They don't - and Republican Presidents never appoint enough pro-lifers to do it. Reagan appointed one pro-lifer and two pro-choicers to the Court, leaving it with a pro-choice majority. Bush appointed a pro-lifer and a pro-choice justice to the Court, maintaining the balance. Bush appointed Alito, who is probably pro-life, and Roberts, who twice upheld Obamacare.

So on this central issue, abortion, the Republicans have been as atrocious as the Democrats. After all, Obama has only one branch of government, yet he advances his agenda. Yet Republicans, who had all three branches of government and three-fifths of the state houses during W's term, were passive, did not press, and tried to put Harriet Miers up there to balance out the pro-lifers, again. That has been their strategy since Reagan, and it has been very effective.

Obama is clearly evil regarding abortion, but besides that, it is difficult for me to see the man as particularly evil. Bush and the Republicans were militarily incompetent. They charged into Iraq with no real plan and got bogged down in a quagmire. Ditto for Afghanistan. Obama pledged to get the US forces out, and he mostly did. American casualties dropped precipitously. Lots of people who wanted to build an Empire and take the oil were outraged that Obama didn't "hold on" to American 'gains", but by what moral right at all did America make those "gains"? And at what cost? Perpetual war? Obama looks like a better strategist than Bush, to me, and the net result has been less American bloodshed. That doesn't look like anti-Christ. If anything, charging into unjust wars is evil, and it was Obama's predecessor did that.

Obama has tried to negotiate a treaty with Iran that will reduce the likelihood of nuclear weapons spread. One can question whether or not he will succeed in his approach. Then again, the Right Wing in America started whispering that Reagan has lost his marbles and was turning into FDR at Yalta when Reagan met with Gorbachev in Reykjavic and signed a sweeping arms reduction accord. War hawks never like it when America takes a more dovish position. But one cannot in good faith say that a more dovish position is anti-Christ. In fact, one must say that the attempt to rein things in and keep them peaceful and negotiated is more Christ-like than taking the McCain "Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran!" approach. On what grounds could we possibly attack Iran. That we don't like what they are doing? God did not appoint us the judge, jury and executioner over the world. We do not have the right to declare war on people because we are afraid. We have nothing to fear but fear itself. If the Iranians actually develop a nuclear weapon, what can they do with it? Use it and commit suicide? Some say they don't care about that, but if that's true, they could go meet Allah TODAY by launching a surprise attack on US forces in Iraq, in Afghanistan and in the Persian Gulf. They have ready access to all three places, and could stage a sudden war, and bring all the death and destruction upon themselves they could ever desire - IF they were suicidal. They don't, which demonstrates that they are not, in fact suicidal.

It is a useful diplomatic and political tool to paint the Iranians as mad dogs ready and eager to commit mass suicide for Allah. It is also an obvious lie. If they really were that, nothing prevents them from committing suicide NOW by hurling their forces at a US aircraft carrier in the Straits of Hormuz and sinking it, while throwing their army into Iraq. They don't', because they're not suicidal. We know this, or can perceive it clearly, if we think. It is not Christ-like to lie to ourselves that our adversaries are rabid dogs so hellbent on suicide that we have carte blanche to launch wars of aggression at them on our whim because we don't like them, That would make US anti-Christ if we did that.

Obama is trying to keep the temperature down and drag things along. Why? Because the mullahs are old. The mullahs are old and the Iranian population is young. Every year that goes by, more of the old guard there dies, more is replaced by younger politicians, and many of those younger men want a future. Time is on the side of peace, and Obama is playing for time.

I hear men screaming exaggerated claims. I hear liars. Lying is what Satan does. Obama's actions seem morally correct, regarding Iran.

I see that the Israelis are angry. But then, they get more financing from the US government than American states with more population do. Israel has benefitted immensely from its strong political influence in the United States. With Obama, they clearly have been knocked down a rung, and they have reacted hysterically and with extreme propaganda, propaganda that would urge war with Iran. But war with Iran would be the wrong thing to do. It would needlessly inflict death on people who are moderating with every year that passes since the revolution. There is a very good chance that if we keep open the lines of communication and bide our time, that the Iranian mullahs of the Revolutionary era will die out and retire. And in any event the Iranians are not suicidal, so the hysterical screams of the Israeli propagandists are not truth. They are lies.

Now, I know that you think that Israel is covenantal Israel. I do not. You think that Scripture is clear on the matter, and so do I. So there is no meeting of the minds, and can't be on that. In fact, you see things that diminish the power of the Jewish state as being de facto anti-Christ, whereas I see things that seek to exalt the secular Jewish colony called Israel as though it were the Israel of the covenant as itself a grand deception, a lie, and I remember that lies come from evil, not good.

You see Israel as good by definition, because of Scripture. But I see Jesus pronouncing the final doom of covenantal Israel during his final week in Jerusalem, and I see God sending the Roman Army in that very generation to remove the Temple and the priesthood forever, making performance of the mandatory rites under the old covenant impossible. By doing so, I see God clearing away the old and leaving only one single covenant for all mankind: through jesus. There is Jesus, or nothing.

Therefore, I see attempts to rebuild "Israel" as though it were covenantal Israel as a monstrous lie, an affront to God's final judgment in the First Century. I note that this "new Israel" makes no effort to follow key parts of the Torah, and makes no effort to reconstitute the priesthood or the required ritual. But I do see war, endless war, and bloodshed, to preserve a military colony with a secular government. In other words, I see pretty damned near the OPPOSITE of what a godly covenantal state would be.

That doesn't mean that I want to see Israel destroyed: that would mean tremendous bloodshed. It does mean that I see arguments that "Israel" is covenantal Israel as deceits of Satan. It isn't. It's an ethnic colony born in blood and maintained through endless bloodshed. It is there, and removing it would be bloodier. That does not mean that Israel should have a carte blanche as though it is a holy thing. This Israel is a counterfeit holy thing. It is not a holy thing. It is fundamentally a lie.

So, I do not see Obama's coolness towards Israel as being anti-Christ. I see it as the first outburst of reality and truth in American government for 50 years. Obama is not seeking Israel's destruction. But he is not treating as an extra-special privileged nation whose interests supersede American interests. He's treating Israel for what it is: an ethnic country that is an ally, but that is an expensive, dependent ally, and an ally whose belligerence causes us problems. So he is clipping Israel's wings in order to make American policy of peace in the Middle East easier.

Now, Obama probably has too-rosy glasses about Muslims because he was raised with them. Just like the notion that this Israel is covenantal Israel is a lie, the notion that Islam is the one truth faith is also a lie. But it's a belief held firmly by a billion people, the people who populate that region. We're tangled up there, and we need peace. Peace is good. Obama's own Muslim background makes him perhaps take too benign a look at the Muslims. But then again, he did manage to get the intel to kill Bin Laden, and did so in Pakistan without losing the alliance. He did manage to end the war with US forces in Iraq. The rise of Isis is due to our having broken Iraq, not because Obama encouraged it. He has managed to tamp things down in Afghanistan.

I see a militarily competent President, for the most part, who has taken a more conciliatory and pacific approach, and I see that his approach has saved a lot of American lives relative to his predecessor. So, when I look at Obama's foreign policy, I don't see Christ, but I do see something more Christ-like than the aggressive - and foolish - warfare of his predecessor.

Turning to domestic matters, Obama's desire to cover everybody with health insurance is a Christian thing (it's also Muslim, and Jewish). If the opposition were merely on financial grounds, then I would expect the opposition to present a counterproposal. But they do not. Instead, all I have seen is Republicans take the position that covering everybody with health care is evil in and of itself. And THAT is the voice of anti-Christ. The voice of Christ says to care for the sick. Obama is trying to do that. It needs to be done. It could be done a lot better than Obamacare, but for anything else to happen would require the Republicans to actually give a damn about poor people not covered. And truth is we see them testimony right here on this board that they do not care about the lack of medical care of the poor. In fact, many think that the poor DESERVE to suffer and not have health insurance, because they're "lazy" etc.

When I compare those two positions, I see what Obama is trying to do to get universal insurance as being Christian, and I see the Republican position as evil and anti-Christioan. So if there is a divine power guiding Obama through that particular issue, I think it is a heavenly one that has confounded the evil Republican efforts to prevent universal health insurance.

That's the way I see it.

As far as immigration goes, I do not see any moral or Christian justification for blood-and-soil ethnic chauvinism. Again, that's what I see here on this board as the Republican basis for opposition to any sort of reasonable treatment of the illegal alien issue. I do not see purely economic arguments. I see the reduction of Hispanics, fellow Christians, by terminology that makes them sound like animals.

That is not the voice of Christ. That is the voice of Satan.

So, once again, I don't see Obama as being on the wrong side.

If he weren't a babykiller, I would see him as being pretty much right. But he's a babykiller, which vitiates everything and makes him an evil character, as are most of us, caught up on a battlefield in which he is not committed to either side absolutely. That's a shame.

Still, I hear the Republicans beat the Christian drum a lot. But then I see them say nonsense about Scripture, speak in vile terms of their fellow Christians, preach crazy wars, and not care at all about the suffering of the ill and the infirm And I see them deny Scripture itself on certain key issues. I quote Scripture, and they come back with ideology that is many things, but it isn't Scripture.

So my view of the Republicans is that they really are snakes. I see the Democrats as being people who are trying to do the better thing in many cases, but who are possessed by sexual demons that turn them into killers, of babies, and that ends up vitiating most of the rest of what they do.

Nevertheless, on balance, I think that Obama has striven for the light on most issues, and while I see the constant vilification, I find that what Obama has tried to do with health care, with peace, with poverty relief, to be more Christian than what his opponents suggest.

Of course, to them this would make ME deceived by the anti-Christ. A charge which I would level in return at them, if it were made.

As far as all being children of God, each of us is a life spirit originally breathed out by God. However, Satan's spirits enter into us and pollute us. If we would return to the Father, we must be fathered again by him in the spirit. Those of us who are, are brothers and sisters with Christ, all having the same Father, God, and having solemn duties of support and care, including economic support, for one another.

Mexicans are mostly Christian. To speak of our brothers and sisters in Christ as animals and vile beings is not Christian. That is the voice of anti-Christ, and when it speaks it needs to be confronted, not encouraged.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-08-03   23:22:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: Vicomte13 (#12)

You have written a small book espousing the many things that you see as good in the socialist movement in this administration, however, I'm not about to fall for it. I see the tentacles of an octopus getting tighter around the neck of this nation and sucking the life blood out of it. I think the man has you fooled, but that is only how I see matters. The wolf in the sheep's clothing, please excuse the cliche, eventually shows his teeth so we will see.

Don  posted on  2015-08-03   23:39:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: Don (#13)

You have written a small book espousing the many things that you see as good in the socialist movement in this administration, however, I'm not about to fall for it. I see the tentacles of an octopus getting tighter around the neck of this nation and sucking the life blood out of it. I think the man has you fooled, but that is only how I see matters. The wolf in the sheep's clothing, please excuse the cliche, eventually shows his teeth so we will see.

Obama is not a socialist. The economic bailout favors crony capitalists - they got the money. The banks were not nationalized when they failed. They were kept private and propped up by public money. That's not socialism. Socialism would have been what the French did in the 1980s when their banks started to fail: nationalize them, take them over and operate them directly under government ownership.

That sort of happened with GM, but the government got out of the business as quickly as possible.

Obamacare makes the point of NOT being socialist. Medicare is socialist, and universal health care COULD have been an extension of Medicare/Medicaid. Instead, Obama went with a mandatory private insurance model, which shoves vast profits into the private insurance and financial industry. That's not socialism. It's crony capitalism.

Social Security is socialism. Unemployment insurance and Medicare and Medicaid and food stamps are socialism. The FDIC insurance on depositors is socialism. The Veteran's Administration and VA loans are socialism. Bailouts and mandatory purchase of private insurance is not socialism at all.

I myself prefer socialism over crony capitalism. If we're going to be compelled to have insurance, Medicare is a better deal than Aetna, because Medicare doesn't make a profit, and doesn't have an incentive to screw over the patient.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-08-04   8:51:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: Vicomte13, Don (#6) (Edited)

I am quite impressed by his leadership abilities, however. The man came into paralyzed Washington and rammed through a particular approach to the economic crisis, and then national health insurance, various treaties that the Republicans say they oppose, and a foreign policy that is independent of Israel. And he does this without control of Congress, now, or the Supreme Court.

Don't be too impressed. Lots of these policies are bi-partisan policies - even his Iraq withdrawal and Iran policies were continuing what Bush had set in motion - Bush began the withdrawal from Iraq for example.

Where Obama came off independent is where he resisted (clusmsily) getting directly involved in Syria and he seemed reluctant to get involved in the over throw of Qaddafi - Clinton was hot for it. This tells me there are factions within govt that control agendas and his ability to resist the war faction in some cases is what I am most happy about - but he just barely resisted.

Obamacare is the Republican health care policy that Romney also adopted. The Republicans have become a clown party and the power backers in America know this.

The Democrats wanted the Pelosi single payer idea - Medicare for all. The GOP thought that was what Obama was going to adopt. The GOP even pre-printed signs saying Obamacare was socialism based on that assumption. Obama tricked the GOP and adopted their plan thus disarming them. Pretty soon to the morons in the GOP base who were worked up into a lather were declaring any plan was socialism. The GOP ruined their plan to run romneycare against obamacare as was the plan because now all plans were socialist.

But make no mistake, Obamacare would have been the plan Reagan, Bush or a Dole or a McCain would have passed.

Pericles  posted on  2015-08-04   9:01:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: Don, Vicomte13 (#13)

You have written a small book espousing the many things that you see as good in the socialist movement in this administration, however

Don, no offense, but I am pretty sure you don't know what socialsim is. It seems people just use that word to mean "govt" and that is not what socialism is.

Pericles  posted on  2015-08-04   9:06:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: Pericles (#15)

The Democrats wanted the Pelosi single payer idea - Medicare for all.

Pelosi was right.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-08-04   9:09:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: All (#17)

Pelosi was right.

I'm waiting for a crack to appear under the building and swallow me whole.

I would never believe that I could write such words.

But it's true: if Pelosi was pressing for universal Medicare, she was right.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-08-04   9:10:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: Vicomte13 (#18)

Pelosi was right. I'm waiting for a crack to appear under the building and swallow me whole.

I would never believe that I could write such words.

But it's true: if Pelosi was pressing for universal Medicare, she was right.

I don't think it was her idea - it was the Democrat alternative and many on the radio - if memory serves - were calling it Pelosi care.

What I find interesting is all these so called Republicans who call Obamacare socialist but it was the right wing Heritage Foundation idea based on fighting socialism. It was to make everyone pay for their own health care rather and take responsibility for their health care ("taking responsibility for your own needs" being a holy concept in the conservative movement).

You know the old saying, familiarity breeds contempt? I am very familiar with the GOP and I find the party contemptable.

Pericles  posted on  2015-08-04   9:18:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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