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New Discovery! 2023 Hottest in over 120 Million Years 2024 and beyond in prophecy Questions Status: Not Logged In; Sign In U.S. Constitution See other U.S. Constitution Articles Title: nolu chan contends an amendment to repeal the 2nd Amdt could be passed Source: LF URL Source: [None] Published: Jul 9, 2015 Author: tpaine Post Date: 2015-07-09 10:39:45 by tpaine Keywords: None Views: 71019 Comments: 255 The Congress proposes, and three-fourths of the states ratify the following amendment AMENDMENT 28. Section 1. The second article of amendment is hereby repealed. Section 2. The individual right to keep and bear, buy, make, and use arms is limited to .22 caliber handguns only. Section 3. All non-conforming guns must be surrendered to government authorities or destroyed within 30 days of ratification of this amendment. Section 4. The Congress shall have the power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation. Poster Comment: During a discussion with Nolu Chan, he asserted that an amendment repealing the 2nd could be ratified, and become a valid part of our Constitution. I contend such an amendment would be unconstitutional. Comments? Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread   Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 40. #3. To: tpaine (#0) During a discussion with Nolu Chan, he asserted that an amendment repealing the 2nd could be ratified, and become a valid part of our Constitution. I contend such an amendment would be unconstitutional. Comments? Nolu Chan is legally correct. Through the amendment process the Constitution can be amended to say anything, except removing equal representation in the Senate. THAT requires unanimity of the states. The Constitution could be amended to require the sacrifice of first-born children. And if the sufficient majorities were found to vote for that, it would be "constitutional". Of course, then treason, and seeking the overthrow and destruction of the Constitution, and supporting foreign invasion and annihilation of the American government, would be the only morally correct thing to do. The Constitution does not guarantee MORAL content. The people have to do that. If the people become depraved and enact depraved laws, then "all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed". America was always depraved. First there was slavery, then there was Indian genocide and segregation. Those things ended, but now we have abortion and the glorification of buggery. Most people think that those evils - slavery, segregation, abortion, gay marriage - are "sufferable evils" and don't rebel. And that would be the case with the Second Amendment abolition also, were it to pass. (Truth is, it could not pass in the current environment). Mandatory sacrifice of firstborn children would be bad enough to justify treason, and would swiftly result in its outbreak. Traitors who win are called "Founding Fathers" of the new order they usher in. Vicomte13  posted on  2015-07-09   10:49:50 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #5. To: Vicomte13, tomder 55, gatlin (#3) The Constitution could be amended to require the sacrifice of first-born children. And if the sufficient majorities were found to vote for that, it would be "constitutional". Of course, then treason, and seeking the overthrow and destruction of the Constitution, and supporting foreign invasion and annihilation of the American government, would be the only morally correct thing to do. You all contend that our only recourse from a majority passing amendments that take away our basic human rights is violence? - 'Treasonous' violence? - Civil war? tpaine  posted on  2015-07-09   11:10:48 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #12. To: tpaine, Vicomte13, tomder 55, Y'ALL (#5) You all contend that our only recourse from a majority passing amendments that take away our basic human rights is violence? - 'Treasonous' violence? - Civil war? Let's flip this; What is YOUR solution to reclaiming the constitution and re-establishing the Founders' REAL intent?? Liberator  posted on  2015-07-09   13:01:13 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #40. To: Liberator (#12) During a discussion with Nolu Chan, he asserted that an amendment repealing the 2nd could be ratified, and become a valid part of our Constitution. I contend such an amendment would be unconstitutional. Comments? Yes, I have a comment (or two.) --- Chan is only the bearer of bad (obvious) news. Don't kill the messenger. No, Chan insists that the SCOTUS has the power to rule such an amendment valid, and that it must be obeyed.. He advocates SCOTUS as having the final say on what the Constitution means... "Unconstitutional" is now in the eye of the beholder of nine justices of SCOTUS. Not so. Every official at every level of gov't is honor bound to protect and defend the Constitution as written, not as interpreted by the SCOTUS. We now have a "living breathing" Constitution. Just five tyrants of SCOTUS have already interpreted the Founders intent any way they want (emotionally), and changed federal law (without Congressional or State consent.) -- What exactly would stop SCOTUS from repealing the 2A? Congress?? "Public outrage? HA! Precedence has been set. SCOTUS opinions can be ignored on constitutional grounds and officials can refuse to implement/fund any attempts at forcement. Paine, I admire your commitment to the Fairy Tale that is the "US Constitution," but recent Presidents have ignored it; Congress has ignored it; And SCOTUS ignores it.... Yep, just as 'we' can ignore scotus.. The concept of 'checks and balances' is built into our Constitution.. tpaine  posted on  2015-07-09   16:00:19 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   Replies to Comment # 40. #42. To: tpaine (#40) Every official at every level of gov't is honor bound "honor bound"? What is this thing, "honor"? Define it. What are its parameters? Who says? Who enforces it? Vicomte13  posted on  2015-07-09 16:02:20 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #43. To: tpaine (#40) Yep, just as 'we' can ignore scotus. Sure, we can ignore SCOTUS. But the authorities, the guys with guns and radios and barracks and prisons and courts and cop cars - those guys are not going to ignore SCOTUS, and if in the process of our "ignoring SCOTUS" we do the ignoring in front of one the uniformed (or un-uniformed) agents of SCOTUS at any level (i.e.: the State), then our "ignoring" will take a decidedly unpleasant turn for us. And the guy who bashes in our head and tazes us will get a good salary and benefits to do it. So yes, we can ignore away. Until there's a counterparty and it matters, then we will either be force-marched down the SCOTUS-delineated path, or frog- marched. Either way, we will go that way, because we will be forced to. Or we can choose to die, I suppose. I won't choose to die rather than comply. I'd rather comply, or lie about complying and do as I please. Standing in defiance and getting my head blown off seems unprofitable. Vicomte13  posted on  2015-07-09 16:09:09 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #44. To: tpaine (#40) Did the U.S. Supreme Court just legislate gay marriage for the fifty states? Isn't it the Constitutional limitation for that Court to interpret the laws in accordance with the Constitution, rather than make Federal law? Don  posted on  2015-07-09 16:12:40 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #49. To: tpaine, nolu chan (#40) (Edited) Chan insists that the SCOTUS has the power to rule such an amendment valid, and that it must be obeyed.. He advocates SCOTUS as having the final say on what the Constitution means... Yes. And Chan is proven right. SCOTUS indeed does not only have the power to tell you how to crap, but when AND what color. Chan only reported what he already notes from SCOTUS -- not that he necessarily "advocates" the majority consensus; that 9 Justices are the only people in a nation of 320 million authorized to interpret the constitution any way they see fit. On this point he agrees with Justice Alito in his opinion. Every official at every level of gov't is honor bound to protect and defend the Constitution as written, not as interpreted by the SCOTUS. Theories are great, aren't they? Look -- the USCON is a fairy tale. You just happen to believe the fairy tale that gubmint actually executes "honor-bound" acts. IF they were "duty-bound" or "honor-bound" NONE of the 40 million illegal invaders would be in the country -- never mind their criminality aided and abetted in "Sanctuary Cities." MOREOVER, many officials would have already been Impeached or arrested for High Crimes. SCOTUS opinions can be ignored on constitutional grounds and officials can refuse to implement/fund any attempts at forcement. The keyword, "can" can be applied a million difference ways. In the context you presume, "enforcement" ain't never happenin', bud. Yep, just as 'we' can ignore scotus.. The concept of 'checks and balances' is built into our Constitution.. Funny how those supposed 'checks and balances' are built in, yet, ignored. TOTALLY. Liberator  posted on  2015-07-09 16:43:54 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #67. To: tpaine, Liberator (#40) Not so. Every official at every level of gov't is honor bound to protect and defend the Constitution as written, not as interpreted by the SCOTUS. Even where one feels the opinion of the Court is erroneous, their opinion matters. Abortion and same-sex marriage is legal. All Federal and State laws to the contrary were struck down. However tpaine stated, Your opinion, and that of the court, is erroneous. http://www.supremecourt.gov/about/constitutional.aspx U.S. Supreme Court website: The Court and Constitutional Interpretation When the Supreme Court rules on a constitutional issue, that judgment is virtually final; its decisions can be altered only by the rarely used procedure of constitutional amendment or by a new ruling of the Court. However, when the Court interprets a statute, new legislative action can be taken. https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/2/409/case.html Hayburn’s Case, 2 US 409, 414 (1792) “That the duties assigned to the circuit courts by this act are not of that description, and that the act itself does not appear to contemplate them as such, inasmuch as it subjects the decisions of these courts, made pursuant to those duties, first to the consideration and suspension of the Secretary at War and then to the revision of the legislature, whereas by the Constitution, neither the Secretary at War nor any other Executive officer, nor even the legislature, is authorized to sit as a court of errors on the judicial acts or opinions of this court.” http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-supreme-court/358/1.html Cooper v Aaron, 358 US 1, 18 (1958) Article VI of the Constitution makes the Constitution the “supreme Law of the Land.” In 1803, Chief Justice Marshall, speaking for a unanimous Court, referring to the Constitution as “the fundamental and paramount law of the nation,” declared in the notable case of Marbury v. Madison, 1 Cranch 137, 177, that “It is emphatically the province and duty of the judicial department to say what the law is.” This decision declared the basic principle that the federal judiciary is supreme in the exposition of the law of the Constitution, and that principle has ever since been respected by this Court and the Country as a permanent and indispensable feature of our constitutional system. nolu chan  posted on  2015-07-09 21:13:48 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #110. To: tpaine, Liberator (#40) tpaine #40: "SCOTUS opinions can be ignored on constitutional grounds and officials can refuse to implement/fund any attempts at forcement." "Yep, just as 'we' can ignore scotus.." Yep, ignore SCOTUS and focus on the tpaine court of the imagination, in your imaginary world. http://www.supremecourt.gov/about/constitutional.aspx U.S. Supreme Court website: The Court and Constitutional Interpretation When the Supreme Court rules on a constitutional issue, that judgment is virtually final; its decisions can be altered only by the rarely used procedure of constitutional amendment or by a new ruling of the Court. However, when the Court interprets a statute, new legislative action can be taken. - - - - - US v McDonald, 9th Cir 88-5239, 919 F.2d 146 (26 Nov 1990) Stahl argues that the sixteenth amendment was never ratified by the requisite number of states because of clerical errors in the ratifying resolutions of the various state legislatures and other errors in the ratification process. He further argues that Secretary of State Knox committed fraud by certifying the adoption of the amendment despite these alleged errors. Secretary of State Knox certified that the sixteenth amendment had been ratified by the legislatures of thirty-eight states, two more than the thirty-six then required for ratification. His certification of the adoption of the amendment was made pursuant to Section 205 of the Revised Statutes of the United States which provided: Whenever official notice is received at the Department of State that any amendment proposed to the Constitution of the United States has been adopted, according to the provisions of the Constitution, the Secretary of State shall forthwith cause the amendment to be published in the newspapers authorized to promulgate the laws, with his certificate, specifying the States by which the same may have been adopted, and that the same has become valid, to all intents and purposes, as a part of the Constitution of the United States. Act of April 20, 1818, ch. 80, Sec. 2, Rev.Stat. Sec. 205 (2d ed. 1878) (amended version codified at 5 U.S.C. § 160 (1940) (repealed Oct. 31, 1951); current version, as amended, at 1 U.S.C. § 106b (Supp. II 1984)). Secretary of State Knox's certification of the adoption of the sixteenth amendment is conclusive upon the courts. United States v. Thomas, 788 F.2d 1250, 1253-54 (7th Cir. 1986); see also Leser v. Garnett, 258 U.S. 130, 137, 42 S. Ct. 217, 218, 66 L. Ed. 505 (1922). In Leser suit was brought to strike the names of two women from the list of qualified voters in Maryland on the ground that the constitution of Maryland limited suffrage to men. Maryland had refused to ratify the Nineteenth Amendment. The necessary minimum of thirty-six states had ratified the amendment. The Secretary of State of the United States had certified its adoption. It was contended, however, that the ratifying resolutions of Tennessee and West Virginia, two of the states that had ratified the amendment, were inoperative because the resolutions of those states had been adopted in violation of their rules of legislative procedure. In answer to that contention the Court ruled: The proclamation by the Secretary certified that from official documents on file in the Department of State it appeared that the proposed Amendment was ratified by the legislatures of thirty-six States, and that it "has become valid to all intents and purposes as a part of the Constitution of the United States." As the legislatures of Tennessee and of West Virginia had power to adopt the resolutions of ratification, official notice to the Secretary, duly authenticated, that they had done so was conclusive upon him, and, being certified to by his proclamation, is conclusive upon the courts. United States v. Stahl, 792 F.2d 1438, 1439 (9th Cir. 1986) - - - - - nolu chan  posted on  2015-07-10 02:28:13 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   End Trace Mode for Comment # 40. Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest

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