The Left's War On Christians
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Title: Pentagon Urged To Boot Chaplains Who Oppose 'Gay' Marriage
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URL Source: http://www.prophecynewswatch.com/2015/July02/024.html
Published: Jul 3, 2015
Author: July 02, 2015 | JACK MINOR
Post Date: 2015-07-03 23:06:14 by Don
Keywords: None
Views: 20976
Comments: 118
In the aftermath of the Supreme Court’s decision to redefine marriage in all 50 states, the Pentagon is now being urged to “cleanse itself” of chaplains who refuse to support same-sex marriage. Activist Mikey Weinstein, president of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation, is demanding the U.S. military conduct a purge of chaplains who holds to the traditional teaching of homosexuality and marriage espoused by the first commander in chief, George Washington. Weinstein claims chaplains who are “maintaining the state of antagonism between their religion and the sexual/gender identities of service members” have no business serving in the military. “Nobody is arguing that these losers don’t have a right to their religious beliefs,” wrote Weinstein in an op-ed. “At this stage, the only honorable thing that these losers can do is to fold up their uniforms, turn in their papers, and get the hell out of the American military chaplaincy. If they are unwilling or too cowardly to do so, then the Department of Defense must expeditiously cleanse itself of the intolerant filth that insists on lingering in the ranks of our armed forces.” While Weinstein frequently calls for the court-martialing of military members who attempt to share their faith with others, he is now calling for an entire class of chaplains to be fired regardless of whether their beliefs affect their job performance or not. Brig. Gen. Doug Lee, now chairman of the executive committee for the Chaplain Alliance for Religious Liberty, said Weinstein’s views are extreme, showing a lack of understanding of a chaplain’s mission. “His comments are so vitriolic and dividing that they are hardly worth responding to. He seems to feel the need to push his conspiracy theory about certain chaplains in the military,” Lee told WND. “In addition, I don’t think he understands that the job of chaplain exists in a pluralistic military so that people have religious support, and to do away with a certain group of chaplains in its entirety is just ridiculous. “It’s like he never learned a thing in law school about the Constitution and about why chaplains exist.” Lee contends one cannot say chaplains have no right to oppose homosexuality based on the teachings of their faith while also supporting their right to stand by other tenets, such as refusing to marry those outside of their faith. “A chaplain cannot do something against his faith tenet such as marrying someone who has different religious beliefs if that is a tenet of their faith. They cannot be asked to do it, and they cannot be required to do it.” Lee told WND that those who think a chaplain must affirm or support the beliefs of everyone who comes for counseling or teaching misunderstand the purpose of chaplains. “The job of a chaplain is to provide religious support or perform religious support. The ‘provide’ part is to help a person find someone who can meet the individual’s spiritual needs. For example, I would not prepare a Passover meal for a Jewish service member, but I will direct them to a rabbi who can address that area. But when I do perform religious support, whether it be to teach, preach or counsel, I do so from my faith perspective.” For his part, Weinstein said he’s looking forward to ending the conservative influence in the military. “What will become of their once-ironclad dominance of fundamentalist Christian privilege within the Department of Defense?” said Weinstein. Lee insists chaplains don’t use their pulpit and position to call on service members to disobey orders regarding the treatment of “gay” service members. “For the vast majority of chaplains in the military, their faith groups believe that homosexuality is a sin and so they believe marriage is between a man and a woman as Christians have believed for thousands of years,” Lee explained to WND. “But the chaplains are saying that if someone comes to them for counseling with the homosexual partner they won’t ignore that person’s concerns, instead they will refer them to someone who can help with their specific needs because that’s part of providing religious support.” WND reported how the military tried to silence opposition to repeal of the Revolutionary War ban on homosexuals serving in the military during a lame-duck session of Congress, after tea-party voters gave Republicans control of the House of Representatives in 2010. In 2013, soldiers were given a training brief stating evangelical Christians were the No. 1 extremist threat to America, ahead of groups such as the Muslim Brotherhood, Ku Klux Klan, Nation of Islam, al-Qaida and Hamas. Catholicism and ultra-orthodox Judaism were also on the list of religious extremist organizations. As WND reported, Larry Wilkerson, former chief of staff to Colin Powell, told the Washington Post in 2013 the biggest problems faced by the military were sexual assault and what he described as proselytizing by Christians. Wilkerson’s comments were made to Sally Quinn in an interview that also featured former ambassador Joe Wilson and Weinstein as they were on their way to a meeting at the Pentagon. Wilson told Quinn that if a chaplain would proselytize, it would be a workplace violation. Weinstein went even further and said it was a “national security threat” and amounted to “spiritual rape.” He said the chaplain’s role is to minister to spiritual needs. Weinstein said military leaders need to understand “there is systematic misogyny, anti-Semitism and Islamophobia in the military.” “What the Pentagon needs to understand is that it is sedition and treason. It should be punished.” Read more at http://www.prophecynewswatch.com/2015/July02/024.html#rAB6z7mffBjuVXm4.99
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#1. To: Don (#0)
Let me take a stab in the dark, is Weinstein a Jew?
I can say the name is definitely Jewish.
Does a bear shit in the woods?
Weinstein claims chaplains who are “maintaining the state of antagonism between their religion and the sexual/gender identities of service members” have no business serving in the military. As the old testament and new testament condemn homosexual sex and define marriage in terms of a man and woman, this would seem to encompass all observant Jews and Christians.
Lots of Muslims in the military about the same number of Jews..... http://www.vosizneias.com/43746/2009/11/25/new-yor,-should-more-Jews-join- the-u-s-military/ Of a total of 1,359,948 active duty members of the military, just 4,515 are Jewish. That’s just 1/3 of one percent of the total, leading only the Muslim service members, which total 3,409 at 1/2 of one percent. In the United States, Jews number between 5,128,000 and 6,444,000, and therefore make up between 1.7 and 2.2 % of our total population of 301,621,000 (U.S. Census Bureau). If Jews served in the military in proportion to their numbers in the general population, there should be between 23,119 and 29,919 Jews in the armed services today. The truth is there is less than 25% of that.
I should have included them too. Now, what religion can the chaplains be drawn from? Wicca?
No doubt. Typical though. president of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation Orwellian name - Freedom is Slavery. In a Cop Culture, the Bill of Rights Doesn’t Amount to Much Weinstein is an idiot who has no idea of the mission of the chaplaincy. He is, with Obolos help, making the military his pet socialist project. Truly my soul waiteth upon God: from him cometh my salvation. He only is my rock and my salvation; he is my defence; I shall not be greatly moved. (Psalm 62:1-2)
Ok,I'm confused. Is this Military Religious freedom Foundation part of a military branch or government office? If not,WTH is he to be telling anybody in uniform what to do,much less Chaplins? Also,why is this story implying it is the government pushing out Chaplins? Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
And doesn't seem to even care. All he seems to be concerned about is getting what HE wants,and to hell with everyone else. "Me,me,me,me,IT'S ALL ABOUT ME,DAMMIT!" Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
Hey, don't give anybody any ideas...
The U.S. Army Chaplains Guide to Wicca
Here you go pete nothing more than another bunch of crackpots. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_Religious_Freedom_Foundation “Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”
He is, with Obolos help, making the military his pet socialist project. But notice how 0blabla avoids ANY scrutiny or responsibility for HIS own appointment and delegation of authority? It's insane. Speaking of insane and Orwellian: Activist Mikey Weinstein, president of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation HUH?? How can a hostile party and militant atheist be appointed "president of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation"? EVERYTHING 0blabla does is designed to ridicule, mock, and destroy the good, the traditional, the common sense.
CZ82: ("Here you go pete nothing more than another bunch of crackpots.") https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_Religious_Freedom_Foundation Wow. Good find: Yet....Weinstein has been dictating legal AND official military policy that's stood for hundreds of years?? MOREOVER: Weinstein describes the group's target as "a small subset of Fundamentalist Christianity that's called premilliennial, dispensational, reconstructionist, dominionist, fundamentalist, or just Dominionist Christianity. Weinstein also cites enforcement of the "Establishment Clause of the First Amendment" as his fascist, anti-constitiution cabal's "stated goal." CAN'T MAKE THIS UP. How has Weinstin's little Gestapo detail not been legally challenged??
Thanks,that explains it. The story was presented like it was an official military office,and I was wondering how the hell they figured they could get away with something like that. Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
Kinda makes you wonder why he doesn't go after Judaism,doesn't it? I think we know why he doesn't,don't we? The American left is filled with Jews with a chip on their shoulders and a hatred for Christianity and whites for the way they have been treated by Christian governments for the last couple of thousand years. They would happily destroy the world if it would destroy Christianity and whites. Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
I think we know why he doesn't,don't we? Weinstein -- a rabid, obsessed anti-Christian -- doesn't persecute Jewish chaplains because they haven't represented the military nearly as much as fundamental Christians. You know that. As you've noted, Weinstein's only goal is power. And the power to destroy the military's establishment and traditional foundation of morale, spiritual support, and influence. He probably hates religious Jews as well. Weinstein's "religion" is hate (same as his boss, 0blabla.) Plus he is a nihilist. The American left is filled with Jews with a chip on their shoulders and a hatred for Christianity and whites for the way they have been treated by Christian governments for the last couple of thousand years. They would happily destroy the world if it would destroy Christianity and whites. By and large, your observation is likely true. Unfortunately. For sheer spite and revenge, they would rather take down America. The Jewish-American Left forgets, ignores, or just doesn't care that evangelical "fundies" are Israel's biggest supporters -- as well as ignoring the fact that it was the Vatican and Roman Catholic Church who marginalized and abused Jews for centuries. But then, many of them hate Israel as well.
What it means is freedom FROM religion.
Truly my soul waiteth upon God: from him cometh my salvation. He only is my rock and my salvation; he is my defence; I shall not be greatly moved. (Psalm 62:1-2)
Maybe. Many leftist Jews seem to hate religious Jews. It is purely a secondary hatred,though. They don't go after them like they do Christians. Or at least not in public. By and large, your observation is likely true. Unfortunately. For sheer spite and revenge, they would rather take down America. They see that as being one and the same. American is the most powerful and influential country that is generally considered to be a Christian nation (in terms of church membership if not actual thought and action) that is also majority white (soon to change),and the added bonus is we are,or were,the biggest threat to world-wide control by the left. I suspect a few of their heads may explode once America becomes a white-minority country,and is full of brown Catholics. The Jewish-American Left forgets, ignores, or just doesn't care that evangelical "fundies" are Israel's biggest supporters I honestly think they feel a mixture of jealousy and paranoia because fundie Christian Zionists outnumber Jewish Zionists. IMHO,they fear the possibility of ending up minor players in their own game instead of large and in charge. The history of Judaism and Christianity can only fuel their fears when comparing numbers. Also,the fundie Zionists mostly support Israel and Zionism because they want to see the "End Times" game being played. Jews who live in Israel are propably slightly less thrilled about that concept. Ever notice how it seems like the majority of the Zionists don't live in Israel?(G) as well as ignoring the fact that it was the Vatican and Roman Catholic Church who marginalized and abused Jews for centuries. You really can't blame them for playing the same game everybody plays. Every group seems to hate and fear every other group,and consider all of "them" to have the same negative qualities. It's human nature,and nothing changes human nature. Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
I see Freeom OF Religion as being the same thing as Freedom FROM Religion. Otherwise everyone would have the same "right" to follow a state religion instead of no religion at all or the one you want to follow. If you don't have the freedom to not be religious,you don't have the freedom to refuse to follow religious beliefs you don't share so you CAN follow the religious beliefs you do share. Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
Freedom of gives an option. Freedom from is exclusive. Types like Weinstein want all religious activity expunged from public life. Truly my soul waiteth upon God: from him cometh my salvation. He only is my rock and my salvation; he is my defence; I shall not be greatly moved. (Psalm 62:1-2)
I disagree because freedom from is also an option. Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
The intent and language can't be any clearer: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, OR prohibiting the free exercise thereof."
HUH?? There has been no, ZERO, zip cases challenged in any U.S. courts which back up your ludicrous azz-backwards theory.
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, OR prohibiting the free exercise thereof." Yeah,that's why nobody disagrees about it,huh? Including you and I. Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
HUH?? There has been no, ZERO, zip cases challenged in any U.S. courts which back up your ludicrous azz-backwards theory. I know this is personal for you,but that is no reason to have your head stuck up your ass about it. Or do you really think my only concern is US court cases,instead of comparing our system to the systems used all over the world where some of them have state religions and you can have your freaking head cut off for worshiping the same God "wrong"? Freedom OF religion also CLEARLY means freedom FROM religion because it bars the state from forcing us to adopt a state religion. We have a choice to worship how and who we choose,or even to not worship at all. Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
Or do you really think my only concern is US court cases,instead of comparing our system to the systems used all over the world where some of them have state religions and you can have your freaking head cut off for worshiping the same God "wrong"? You're projecting, because this case IS personal...FOR YOU. I get it -- when you were a kid, your relatives didn't give YOU the freedom of OR "from" religion. You were assigned a religion while in the Army without your concent; Maybe a CO tried to coerce you into "Gawd." Your anecdotal cases still don't rise to the federal case you're making it out to be or change the Founders' intent or meaning. Most of all, I'm sorry it ruined faith for you, that you've allowed these instances to alienate you from God. The 1st Amendment and writings of the Founders is crystal clear on the matter of freedom OF religion. It has nothing to do with you citing several irrelevant tangential red herrings.
NOBODY but Leftists, militant atheists, anarchists....in over 200 plus years. For the rest of America, the intent and definition has been a consensus.
And "freedom OF/FROM religion" is still freedom to worship as you please. Whether the religion of Atheism or Nihilism. We have a choice to worship how and who we choose,or even to not worship at all. So you DO understand the 1st Amendment as it pertains to "religion" after all?
It's personal for EVERYBODY. You were assigned a religion while in the Army without your concent; Not true. I had "Heathen" as my religious preference on my dog tags. Saved me from having to listen to the recruiting spiel when reporting in to a new Group that had a Chaplin that didn't know me. Maybe a CO tried to coerce you into "Gawd." Not even once. I did have a Chaplin or two try to convert me before I became a declared Heathen,though. Your anecdotal cases still don't rise to the federal case you're making it out to be I never claimed it was an actual federal case. My claim and fear is that it is a POTENTIAL federal case because so many fundies want to "bring God back to government". The 1st Amendment and writings of the Founders is crystal clear on the matter of freedom OF religion. You are exhibit A due to your insistence that no one in America has a Constitutionally-guaranteed Freedom FROM Religion. It tells me you would like to make a belief in God mandatory,and make religion a part of government. Deny this if you want,but there is no other reason for you to be so blind and stubborn on this issue. It is a FACT that you can NOT have freedom OF religion unless you have a guarantee of freedom FROM religion. Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
Absolutely! As well as the freedom to NOT be forced to worship if you don't want. Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
"Bringing God back into government" vs. Let's see how Satan does? How's that working out for ya? Btw -- NO ONE has EVER been coerced via gubmint mandate into believing in God. There IS no such threat, never has been. Why so paranoid over a phantom bogeyman?
Because True Believers deny it,and fundies are required to spread the word of God. Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
Weinstein is an Obama hitman whose job is to war against the Christians in the military. He has the power to make commanders quake when chaplains under their command try to do their job mandated by their position in the military structure.
I think he knows quite well what the chaplains are required to do. I think he knows what he has been appointed to do as well. He sees these chaplains as the enemy.
Many Jews are faint from being observant.
Lets take a stab in the dark, is Weinstein a faggot?
But if devout, observant Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, and Muslim clerics are excluded from the chaplain corps, do you believe your or anyone else could sell an all Wiccan or Pagan chaplain corps to the American people? Challenging all who believe in one or both books of the Bible, or the Quran, might lead to quite a backlash.
Lemme guess. NY, FL, CA, DC.
I imagine an orthodox Jew who runs a bakery observing a Palestinian-American and a skinhead coming in to place special orders, the very first customers of the week.
The religion of the chaplain is not the point, a chaplain is there to serve the spiritual and emotional needs of others. Chaplains perform wedding or conduct funeral ceremonies, administer communion, deliver spiritual messages, offer prayer at public meetings, and provide regular counseling. Other chaplains meet the need of the moment, usually through listening and prayer. I was a Wicca practitioner while in the military, but when I was facing a special court martial I was interviewed and evaluated by a Protestant chaplain for additional evaluation. I eventually was found not guilty, but I was under immense stress and not handling it well and the Chaplain, named Major Peacock helped me put things into perspective. There will never likely ever be a 'pagan Chaplain Corp,' as there are not as meany Pagans in the military, or general society to draw on to have them in high numbers. The mix will likely always be with Christians in the majority, with a smaller number of Muslim, Jewish and members of other faiths like Wicca. Confronting people to try to challenge a service member's faith is something a Chaplain should never do. Lemme guess. NY, FL, CA, DC. Nope. They live in the Bible Belt in the south and the mid-west. Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
I think it goes further than that. It can probably result in court-martial charges and at a minimum the loss of their commission. Military Chaplains MUST be "one size fits all" practitioners. Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
Like your ass buddy. You don't support the first amendment. You're AINO.
It's the ENTIRE point. Did you miss the thread title and subject at hand: Title: Pentagon Urged To Boot Chaplains Who Oppose 'Gay' Marriage Those targeted chaplains are FUNDMENTAL CHRISTIAN. Not only that, Mikey Weinstein has specifically persecuted AND called for the ouster of Christian chaplains who openly display the Bible. I was a Wicca practitioner while in the military, but when I was facing a special court martial I was interviewed and evaluated by a Protestant chaplain for additional evaluation. I eventually was found not guilty... Who other than a Prot-Christian chaplain is going to show you that kind of understanding and compassion? I've an interpretation to make about your icon and symbolism -- ostensibly in "honor" of the Grateful Dead.' It's an open skull (the symbol of death.) The surrounding the periphery are some confusing psychedelic patterns. Within the skull and space of the brain is a temptingly beautiful blue sea trailing into sunny horizon -- a giant "Peace Sign" stands as monument and goalpost. Pretty slick, seductive deception. What it DOESN'T show is...just beyond that sunny, promise of peace...is the Lake of Fire. And by that time it's too late to turn back. The "Peace Sign"? What does it mean? It depends on who is displaying it. What's its history? The Saracens in A.D. 711 used this symbol to alternately represent a broken cross, a raven's claw, or a witch's foot, all presumably satanic symbols. Under the reign of Roman Emperor Nero, infamous for his brutal persecution of Christians and Jews, this symbol was prominently used to represent a broken cross or broken Jew. Nero crucified the Apostle Peter upside down, and the horrific event resembled the downward-pointing fork. It was thereafter called the Neronic cross. Source: http://www.gotquestions.org/peace-sign.html
Link: Grateful Dead Symbols De-Coded Part 4: The Skull and Lightning Bolt "For the next leg of our journey on our search for the meanings behind the Grateful Dead's iconic symbols, let's take a look at one of my personal favorites: the skull and lightning bolt, or “Steal your Face” logo. This image of a skull, cracked and divided by a lightning bolt that divides the head into two hemispheres—most typically blue and red, with the lower portion of the skull in white. Designed in 1969, the logo was the collaborative work of Owsley Stanley and artist Bob Thomas. Owsley was inspired by a freeway sign he happened to pass by—a round shape divided by a bold white line into an orange half and a blue half. The general shape and colors stood out, and Owsley had the notion that a blue and red design with a lightning bolt with make a cool logo. He shared his idea with Bob Thomas, who then drew up plans of the design. Originally, there was no skull face—the logo was simply a circle divided with the lightning bolt. The skull face was added on a few days later, as a way to symbolize the “Grateful Dead.” The band first used the logo as an identifying mark on their musical equipment, and later the symbol appeared on the inside album jacket of the self-titled album The Grateful Dead. The logo later appeared on the cover of the album Steal your Face, and has been known as the Steal your Face symbol ever since. Perhaps its the lightning bolt that signifies transformation, enlightenment, and the raw powers of nature, juxtaposed with a skull image and striking, distinct colors that lends to the symbol's equation to the whole “steal your face” concept. Through the band's music and the scene and philosophy that the music inspired, people were transformed. Their everyday masks were “cracked” by the honesty, the openness and “realness” of the Grateful Dead culture, and their mundane, limited identities were left behind. The skull and lightning symbol just happens to perfectly symbolize and encapsulate this idea, even though it was created years before the song which eventually came to lend the iconic graphic it its name." How would you know? You think it only protects some speech. Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
It's the ENTIRE point. Did you miss the thread title and subject at hand: Title: Pentagon Urged To Boot Chaplains Who Oppose 'Gay' Marriage Those targeted chaplains are FUNDMENTAL CHRISTIAN. WRONG! That is nothing more than the camel's nose under the tent,and the focus RIGHT NOW is on fundie Christians because they are the universal religious targets of ridicule right now,and it unites the far left and the ignorant masses as well as the devout Catholics (LOTS of overlap on that one!) that equate "religious fundies" with "KKK and militia members". I say it is the camel's nose under the tent because the goobers that support this will not only get what they ask for,but will get more than they expected. The precedent will have been established,and the Catholics,the Jews,and eventually (after they have served their role in destroying the Bill of Rights) the Muslims. In fact,NO religion will be safe other than the religion that worships the power of the government over the serfs. Make no mistake about it,total control of thoughts and actions is the ultimage goal. Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
Make no mistake about it,total control of thoughts and actions is the ultimage goal. On that we agree. There is an underlying subversive method to this madness. And it IS about absolute power and control. But what better way to achieve that than to cripple Christians and their values, which have undoubtedly provided America its traditional underpinnings? IT and its believers have been the foundation and glue that have held together this Republic since *before* we were a Republic. And THIS is why I've said for years -- so goes Christianity in America, so goes America and her ideals -- regardless of faith or lack thereof. Ergo, this is now a hot war between "Conserve-a-tism vs. "Progressive-ism." Ultimately, there are but these two horses to back.
Mike -- thanks for providing a different interpretation and your opinion of this "Grateful Dead" symbol. I realize that on its surface to you perhaps it represents...just another Grateful Dead symbol. I have nothing against GD fans, or their music. I respect your admiration of the band and nostalgia. That said -- in scraping below the surface, like many symbols -- a dual meaning is intended. In this case, occultist meanings and symbolism can be found. The skull has ALWAYS symbolized "death." The rest of your particular icon presents further problematic symbolism, as explained by the recognizable Peace Sign. In the context of the skull (and death), the peace sign is no longer. It is a "broken cross, a raven's claw, or a witch's foot" -- all can be presumed satanic symbols, and mockery of the Jews who believed in Christ's cross. I can't presume to know your heart -- whether this symbolism plays into your display of this particular "Grateful Dead" icon, or it's just simply a benign, favorite GD icon of yours. But for others...it is what it is.
That is a point I have argued on another thread about Chaplain Modder who is facing possible separation. http://www2.libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=40191&Disp=All&#C76 nolu chan at 2015-06-18 23:49:25 ET However, the express point of the article of this thread is aimed any any chaplain who opposes gay marriage. It would not be possible for a Catholic chaplain to perform a same-sex marriage and not get himself ex-communicated from his church. Similarly, I would expect fundamentalist Protestant, orthodox Jewish, or Muslim clerics to oppose same-sex marriage as inconsistent with their religion. It is one thing to perform the job of a chaplain and to provide spiritual and emotional support to all and another thing to require them to actively participate in, or to actively support, something their religion does not permit. I would have expected a chaplain of any faith to have comforted and assisted you, as you relate one did. I would not expect the chaplain to partake of a Wiccan ceremony or to speak acceptingly of Wiccan beliefs. SCOTUS has determined abortion is a constitutional right. Should the military kick out all doctors who oppose abortion? Somebody in the military opposes abortion as it is almost impossible for the military member to obtain one in a military hospital. Many or most civilian hospitals do not perform the procedure either. What does it mean to "oppose gay marriage?" Does it mean to morally or religiously oppose it? To refuse to perform or participate in a gay marriage? To refuse to offer positive reinforcement in counseling a prospective spouse about an intended gay marriage? How does a Catholic chaplain positively counsel someone about doing something his religion condemns? At what point does one person's fundamental right to marry someone of the same sex outweigh another person's freedom of religious expression? If all the chaplains who are morally opposed to gay marriage are booted out of the service, who would be left? If all the doctors opposed to performing an abortion were booted out, would there be enough left to perform other procedures?
You see Christians as the most important "block" of people. I see them as just one of a number of prominent groups,and the way to take over control is to fragment these groups and people to the point where they hate and fear each other more than they do the globalist government. Nothing at all new about this other than the names of the players. It's the old "divide and conquer" strategy at play,and most people get too wrapped up in their hatred of the people they see as their enemy to even notice the true enemy. Yeah,the government could go after Voo Doo believers or NBA fans instead,but what would it gain them and who would really care? Going after Christianity takes out a politically powerful group that might stand against them,as well as providing them with organized and powerful allies from other religions who are jealous of the influenes and power that Christianity has in this country,and want to divide up the Christians goods amongst themselves. They are so blinded by their jealousy and hatred that they are blind to the FACT they once Christianity is destroyed THEY will be the next ones with their heads on the chopping blocks. Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
Well reasoned. But we are not dealing with a reasonable man in Weinstein. He has an agenda and will keep pushing it until someone calls him on his pair of 2s. I'm sure a gay military couple will test the waters. They will come in to either a Baptist or Catholic chaplain and ask for marriage counseling. Both will point out that they do not advise such unions and will no doubt refer them to some chaplain who will. We will only hear about the refusal part and not the referral part. It will make "news" and the chaplains will be vilified but exonerated yet their career will be over. It will be a victory for the homosexual lobby. Future chaplains will be recruited based on the same sex marriage litmus test and another institution will be hijacked by the secular left. You can all bookmark this post and refer to it when it happens. Truly my soul waiteth upon God: from him cometh my salvation. He only is my rock and my salvation; he is my defence; I shall not be greatly moved. (Psalm 62:1-2)
What does it mean to "oppose gay marriage?" Does it mean to morally or religiously oppose it? To refuse to perform or participate in a gay marriage? To refuse to offer positive reinforcement in counseling a prospective spouse about an intended gay marriage? How does a Catholic chaplain positively counsel someone about doing something his religion condemns? At what point does one person's fundamental right to marry someone of the same sex outweigh another person's freedom of religious expression? If all the chaplains who are morally opposed to gay marriage are booted out of the service, who would be left? If all the doctors opposed to performing an abortion were booted out, would there be enough left to perform other procedures? Killer cases and points, Chan. The hypocrisy and created contradictory conundrums are ALL on the left. And STILL they're steamrolling logic and the law. 1st Amendment "Rights" are now contingent on which political ideology of the purported "Equal Rights" protection clause of the now bogus 14th Amendment one stands... The arbiters of constitutional interpretation is appears are no one but SC, state, and circuit judges -- and 0blabla-assigned "Civilian Board" assassins like Mikey Weinstein. This way, 0blabla and the admin's fascists can claim their hands are clean of murder of the USCON.
They are so blinded by their jealousy and hatred that they are blind to the FACT they once Christianity is destroyed THEY will be the next ones with their heads on the chopping blocks. Yes...But for Christians, America has not really been about expanding "Christian" power, influence, and goods. That said, you've stated pretty much what I've already said. Maybe you needed to think it through and write it down into your own thoughts. The group that has been in control of America's steering wheel or helm have been...Christians, along with those with their kinds of values, ethics, and morals. The NEW "values" will be upside-down. Represented by the pathological insanity, il-logic, and brutality we see daily from the Fascist-Left. Once Christians (AND much of their ideological allies) are eradicated from positions of influence, we'll have full-blown, high-velocity anarchy. You think the WH and Constitutional already have been compromised with insane decisions? Just wait. We're just now gulping down some force-fed sampling of the future at low-velocity. So yes -- this means right on down the line, the haters of the values of Fundies and the Bible will no longer offer any strong buffer and moral "Maginot Line" to stop the new controlling group from treating them like bloody rag-dolls. The Fascist-Left. It's here. And it is poised to finish its blitzkreig of subversiveness. The s*** will manage to hit the fan twice; Initially when the pro-Christian conservatives and their allies hit back; And then after everything is said and done -- the fascist Left will crater this world. Scorched earth is something they've always excelled at. In its wake will be a Mad Max World.
I disagree on one important point. The recent decision is based upon the Due Process Clause and the Equal Protection Clause is cited only for ancillary support to the main argument that same-sex marriage is a fundamental right. Really, I have not lost my mind and just made this crap up. Equal protection of a right does not arise until the right is established as existing. The claim of a fundamental right is not just the use of a surplus adjective. Black's Law Dictionary, 6th Ed. Challenged legislation that significantly burdens a "fundamental right" (examples include First Amendment rights, (privacy, and the right to travel interstate)) will be reviewed under a stricter standard of review. A law will be held violative of the due process clause if it is not closely tailored to promote a compelling or overriding interest of government. A similar principle applies under Equal Protection law. Is the right to same-sex marriage either explicitly or implicitly guaranteed by the Constitution? As you may observe, finding a fundamental right at argument, whether explicit or emanating from a penumbra, affects the applicable standard of review under the due process clause. The underpinning of the majority opinion defining marriage is due process, not equal protection. See also, Roberts in dissent at 23-24: "Rights implicit in liberty and rights secured by equal protection may rest on different precepts and are not always co-extensive, yet in some instances each may be instructive as to the meaning and reach of the other. In any particular case one Clause may be thought to capture the essence of the right in a more accurate and comprehensive way, even as the two Clauses may converge in the identification and definition of the right." Ante, at 19. The majority goes on to assert in conclusory fashion that the Equal Protection Clause provides an alternative basis for its holding. Ante, at 22. Yet the majority fails to provide even a single sentence explaining how the Equal [24] Protection Clause supplies independent weight for its position, nor does it attempt to justify its gratuitous violation of the canon against unnecessarily resolving constitutional questions. See Northwest Austin Municipal Util. Dist. No. One v. Holder, 557 U. S. 193, 197 (2009). In any event, the marriage laws at issue here do not violate the Equal Protection Clause, because distinguishing between opposite-sex and same-sex couples is rationally related to the States' "legitimate state interest" in "preserving the traditional institution of marriage." Lawrence, 539 U. S., at 585 (O'Connor, J., concurring in judgment). It is important to note with precision which laws petitioners have challenged. Although they discuss some of the ancillary legal benefits that accompany marriage, such as hospital visitation rights and recognition of spousal status on official documents, petitioners' lawsuits target the laws defining marriage generally rather than those allocating benefits specifically. The equal protection analysis might be different, in my view, if we were confronted with a more focused challenge to the denial of certain tangible benefits. Of course, those more selective claims will not arise now that the Court has taken the drastic step of requiring every State to license and recognize marriages between same-sex couples.
"The [DoD] has made the same benefits available to all military spouses, regardless of sexual orientation, as long as service member-sponsors provide a valid marriage certificate," Christen said. The ruling also has no impact on the roles or responsibilities of military chaplains, he said. "A military chaplain is not required to participate in or officiate at a private ceremony if doing so would be in variance with the tenets of his or her religion or personal beliefs," Christensen said. http://www.military.com/daily-news/2015/06/26/same-sex-marriage-now-legal-for-gay-military-couples-in-all-50.html From Military.com website. Guess we'll see what happens. “Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”
I am certain that it is inevitable. But if it works as it has with abortions in the military, it may be difficult to find someone who will volunteer for the function. I rather doubt that military doctors unanimously oppose abortion at a personal level, but they are not going out of their way to make it available. Another conundrum I thought of is two very bad same-sex married people. Could they be cellmates? If in the same prison, would displays of affection be prohibited? Would seperating them into different prisons or wings of a prison, as a matter of policy, be cruel and unusual, or something or other? If cellmates decide to get married, what happens? If the prison chaplain is Catholic, what does he do?
And Obama is laughing as he knows he has sowed many destructive seeds that will affect long after the freak is gone.
As more same-sex married couples enter the military community, difficulties will arise. These couples could be active duty member and civilian spouse or two active duty members. When opposite sex marital discord occurs, the couple is frequently mandated to marital counseling. How do they get counseled by a chaplain who finds their behavior morally repulsive and whom the couple also finds repulsive? How does the military accomodate all this, in all circumstances and locations? If they ignore it in certain locations or circumstances, and it leads to one spouse killing the other, that would be a different legal problem.
I know a Reformed Army doc. He just retired but when he was active duty he would not counsel women on how to get an abortion and he also refused to prescribe birth control. He was never disciplined. Truly my soul waiteth upon God: from him cometh my salvation. He only is my rock and my salvation; he is my defence; I shall not be greatly moved. (Psalm 62:1-2)
That is the strategy they have been successful with in their quest to nullify the Bill of Rights,so why would they change now? Once you have created one group of citizens with special rights that other citizens don't have,it's all downhill from there. Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
Never. Priests/chaplins/preachers/shammans/rabbis/witch doctors have EVERY BIT AS MUCH RIGHT to adhere to their religious views on marriage as any couple does to marry. Marriage IS NOT JUST a religious ceremony. It is also a civil ceremony,and no religious leader whose religion is opposed to same gender marriages can be forced to violate his religious beliefs in order to please someone who has the option of "doing the deed" elsewhere. Do religious leaders have the authority to tell homosexuals they can NOT marry,and to enforce their views? If not why is the inverse true? Folks,you can't have it both ways no matter how "happy" (gay) you are. Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
You can't possibly be serious. I have never met or heard of any religious leader that wasn't trying to expand their empire and influence. So yes -- this means right on down the line, the haters of the values of Fundies and the Bible will no longer offer any strong buffer and moral "Maginot Line" to stop the new controlling group from treating them like bloody rag-dolls. Give that crap a rest. Organized Christianity has been responsible for more deaths,torture,and suffering than anything else in history,including diseases. Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
Don't be so smug,and don't give him any credit he doesn't deserve for being clever or sly. He is just one more horse added to the harness after the wagon was already moving. The Bush Crime Family,Jimmy Carter,Bill Clinton,and the entire RNC are laughing along with him. Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
I would agree with that. Trump isn't laughing though.
You can't possibly be serious. I have never met or heard of any religious leader that wasn't trying to expand their empire and influence. You really do have the mind of a 10 year old, don't you? "Christians" are NOT defined by their so-called "leaders" -- which in your fevered mind are Jim Baker, Swaggert, Oral Roberts, and the Pope. You are so disengaged from understanding the very definition of "Christian," or context of my posting, it is impossible to exchange any meaningful posts with you. Seek professional help. No, it's never too late. Give that crap a rest. Organized Christianity has been responsible for more deaths,torture,and suffering than anything else in history,including diseases. I rest my case. Like I said -- you are monumentally disengaged from reality. The hate and personal myths you embrace are choking your spirit and any ability to define and discern truth.
This is when a flaming Pagan or Wiccan "chaplain" will step in. /eyeball roll
Equal protection of a right does not arise until the right is established as existing. The claim of a fundamental right is not just the use of a surplus adjective. No, I don't think you've lost your mind; It's just been my observation that the 14A has been subverted and stretched faaaar beyond any original intent. Depending on which ideologue is driving it, a Mac Truck can be (and is) driven thru its loopholes.
These couples could be active duty member and civilian spouse or two active duty members. When opposite sex marital discord occurs, the couple is frequently mandated to marital counseling. How do they get counseled by a chaplain who finds their behavior morally repulsive and whom the couple also finds repulsive? How does the military accomodate all this, in all circumstances and locations? If they ignore it in certain locations or circumstances, and it leads to one spouse killing the other, that would be a different legal problem. Indeed. What about those chaplain funded 'marriage retreats' and 'marriage encounters' weekends? Have to check if they still do those or not. In the past with DOMA in effect those retreats were for traditional marriages. They were very secular in nature given by the chaplain with the education in "Family Life Counseling." Most of those chaplains were Evangelical and Baptist. I'm retired now from the Army, but in a job where I interact with military. I'll ask. Truly my soul waiteth upon God: from him cometh my salvation. He only is my rock and my salvation; he is my defence; I shall not be greatly moved. (Psalm 62:1-2)
This entails an assumption that there will be such chaplains, and in sufficient quantity.
I think 14A was designed to drive trucks through it. The people did not ratify the hidden intent of the framers. They ratified the text. By now, the amendment has probably gone places even the framers had not imagined.
I envision the response, "Don't ask me. I don't have a clue."
I just think such a program as couples weekend chaplain retreats will die on the vine. Never went to one. Wife and I are not the weepy touchy feely Phil Donahue crowd:) We solve our differences the old fashioned way..."Yes dear":) Before I retired hardly any units still had a Christmas or Holiday ball when everyone gets dressed in Blue Mess Dress and brings their spouse. Just think with all the rapid changes in the Army culture commanders are just fed up and don't do them anymore. I mean who wants to see their Command Sergeant Major on the dance floor with his husband dancing cheek to cheek? Truly my soul waiteth upon God: from him cometh my salvation. He only is my rock and my salvation; he is my defence; I shall not be greatly moved. (Psalm 62:1-2)
The Marines almost religiously hold their Marine Ball. But that image you bring up, I just can't picture that with a room of Marines. Something for troubled couples will continue. It does not have to be effective, but command has to be able to say they took appropriate measures. They have to invent something and deem it appropriate.
In the last few years couples have gone straight to marriage counselors on referral off post or on post. That's probably the direction they are going in now. Truly my soul waiteth upon God: from him cometh my salvation. He only is my rock and my salvation; he is my defence; I shall not be greatly moved. (Psalm 62:1-2)
No,I leave that to the people who believe in magic and miracles. "Christians" are NOT defined by their so-called "leaders" - LOL! Good one! Ever try to explain that theory to the Pope? which in your fevered mind are Jim Baker, Swaggert, Oral Roberts, and the Pope. You are so disengaged from understanding the very definition of "Christian," I think I understand it better than most cult members. If they understood it at all,most would stop going to the churches they attend. Nothing fevered or imaginative about it,those ARE some of the better known Christian leaders,even though they are also competitors. I do think Anal Roberts is currently taking a dirt nap,though. So are all the Popes with the exception of the latest guy with the pointy hat. I rest my case. Like I said -- you are monumentally disengaged from reality. You just go ahead and keep ignoring all the people murdered by various religious cults,as well as all the local and major wars that were fought in the name of Gawd if that makes you feel better,if that is what helps you get through the day. Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
Please tell us about your vast experience with and personal knowledge of Pagan and Wiccan religious leaders and beliefs. Please feel free to leave out all the ones YOUR religion murdered and burned at the stake over the centuries if it makes you feel better because nobody should be held accountable for what they say when you set them on fire. Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
Were those interdenominational with Protestant Chaplains working with Protestant couples,Catholics with Catholic couple,Jews working with Jewish couples,etc,etc,etc? I really don't see how they would have worked very well if that had not been the case. Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
AFAIK the US military is under no obligation to fulfill any sort of quota for their Chaplain Corps,and from THEIR POV a Jewish,Catholic,Protestant,Muslim,Buddist,or whatever Chaplain could serve as well as a Wiccian or Pagan Chaplain for general purposes. And given that this is an all-volunteer military today,no military member has any justification for throwing a hissy fit if he or she doesn't get the Chaplain of their Choice. Nobody forced them to enlist. Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
Why humor you further? You already have all the answers you need. /Staff of Swiss Psychiatrists Please feel free to leave out all the ones YOUR religion murdered and burned at the stake over the centuries if it makes you feel better because nobody should be held accountable for what they say when you set them on fire. It's as though I'm on one planet (Earth), and you're on another (PLUTO.) LOVE the dopey visit back into your time-machine, the lack of context as it relates to the original subject, AND vast, select self-serving revisionist history to boot. But it's par for the course. YOUR insane course. Let's just call this post of yours, 'Sneakypete's Mount Everest of Irrelevance, Stupidity and Ignorance'.
HUH?? Lol.. Tell us what your dumb-azz rants have to do with the subject at hand -- the persecution IN AMERICA of Fundamental Christian Chaplains, the hijacking of the military and government by subversives, AND what it means for America. NOT in the year 1515 but in the year 2015. I think I understand it [definition of Christian] better than most cult members. You don't even know the definition of "atheist." OR worst than that, "insanity." CLUE: Mirror.
Too full of uncomfortable truths,huh? Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
One of us doesn't,and it ain't me. As I have stated before,I am not a member of ANY organized religion,including atheism. OR worst than that, "insanity." People who see visions and believe in miracles and magic are considered to be insane. Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
Counseling troubled same-sex married couples is the specific problem I have cited. A Bible or Quran thumping chaplain may not be able to provide such counseling or be compelled to do so. The problem is not a gay couple hissy fit, but the military finding enough suitable chaplains to fill the need if the same-sex married military population grows. They can encounter chaplains recusing themselves. Military doctors cannot be required to perform an abortion. Very few military abortions are performed.
Ummm I don't think there are pagan/wiccan chaplains in the military, the last one that I heard of got the boot about 8-10 years ago...
“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”
They can do it,which is part of the job they swore an oath to do,or they can resign their commissions. A Bible or Quran thumping chaplain may not be able to provide such counseling Of course they can. It's their duty to do so. Their jobs are not about "me",they are about the soldiers,sailors,airmen,or Marines they are sworn to serve. The problem is not a gay couple hissy fit, but the military finding enough suitable chaplains to fill the need if the same-sex married military population grows. No,the real problem is allowing politically correct brain farts get in the way of the national defense. The Generals could see this coming down the road and were no doubt oppposed to it,but in the US the Generals are not in charge of the military. Whatever PC dumbass that is sitting in the WH can tell them to start wearing French Maid dresses,and all they can legally do is say "Yes Sir!" and hope it explodes in the media. Frankly this should have never gotten this far. Neither should women serving in submarines or remote front line outposts with men. It's just asking for trouble where there MUST be unity. BTW,Chaplins are supposed to be primarily in the soul-saving business,not the business of judging the value of people who come to them for help or trying to convert them to their faiths. Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
Yes he was booted. Not so much because he was wiccan but that he was sponsored as a Pentecostal chaplain and then turned wiccan. Thus he lost his 'sponsorship' of the denomination and when that happens the Army will boot the chaplain. Don't think there are any other wiccan chaplains. The post chaplains usually give in to their demands of funds for their witchcraft ceremonies. But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead.--1 Corinthians 15:20-21
You are correct in your statements.
I intended not be able to in a literal sense. The chaplain may be unable to counsel how to best maintain a loving gay marriage when his own religious belief prevents him from discussing gay marriage in an approving manner. A chaplain might find it difficult to counsel them on gay sex life and marital obligations. The couple is not there to be comforted due to the death of a relative, a neutral subject. They are there for counseling regarding a relationship the chaplain's religion condemns. The chaplain my opt out of engaging in certain discussion to the point where his best good faith effort cannot meet their needs. It is not the duty of the chaplain to engage in anything which is repugnant to his own religious beliefs, just as it is not the duty of a military doctor to perform an abortion if that is repugnant to his religious beliefs. The specific situation has not arisen before, so it is difficult to say what problems will be encountered, but the interaction is likely to be very awkward. There will almost certainly be a clash between chaplains and the military if orders are given and they feel unable to comply. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/25/catholic-military-chaplains-gay_n_3989043.html Religion News Service (RNS) Catholic military chaplains cannot be forced to witness or bless a same-sex marriage, nor are they allowed to take part in any marriage counseling retreats that are open to gay couples under new rules issued by the Archdiocese for the Military Services. The rules, sent to chaplains on Sept. 18 by Archbishop Timothy P. Broglio, head of the AMS, also bar chaplains from taking part in a funeral for a Catholic if that participation “would give the impression that the church approves of same sex ‘marital’ relationships.” But the new rules also set out conditions that would allow Catholic military commanders to comply, without violating their beliefs, with rules giving same-sex couples under their command federal employee benefits as required by law. Broglio cited an interpretation from the National Catholic Bioethics Center explaining that Catholic commanders can morally facilitate benefits for gay couples in their command if there was no other way to avoid it without jeopardizing their career. “This is also contingent on the commander making known his/her objection to being required to … participate, as well as on attempting through legal channels to continue to accomplish changes in policy consistent with the historic understanding of marriage and family as based on natural moral law,” said the statement from the bioethics center. Broglio promulgated the rules in response to the military’s repeal of the Don’t Ask/ Don’t Tell policy for service personnel and the Supreme Court’s decision this summer to strike down a key component of the federal Defense of Marriage Act. The new policies were expected and follow similar guidelines issued last month by the Southern Baptist Convention for its chaplains. But they came out just a day before the release of a groundbreaking interview in which Pope Francis said the church was “obsessed” with issues like gay rights and called for a “new balance” in its public witness. There are 234 priests serving as active duty chaplains in the Army, Air Force and Navy for about 275,000 Catholic military personnel. About 25 percent of all personnel in the armed forces are Catholic, and eight percent of military chaplains are Catholic. Southern Baptists have nearly 1,500 endorsed chaplains serving in the U.S. military, more than any other denomination or faith group. In his statement, Broglio said the new federal policy on gay marriage and gay rights for military personnel “makes it necessary to reiterate with clarity the teaching of the Catholic Church regarding homosexuality.” He said that same-sex couples account for less than half of one percent of couples in the armed forces and “such a small group cannot be allowed to mandate policy for all.” “A clear disservice is rendered if the truth of the Gospel is confused by the actions of those ordained to disseminate that truth,” the archbishop said, adding that chaplains should also “never forget that it is the sin that is hated and never the sinner.” The new rules also reiterate that “anyone who is known to be in a sinful relationship is excluded from ministries” such as serving as a lector, catechist, altar server or from giving out Communion. Last year, Congress approved conscience protections for military members that allow them to express their personal beliefs without fear of punishment. http://outservemag.com/2012/03/military-chaplains-their-gays/ Outserve, March 2012 [excerpt] In 1993, when President Clinton tried to lift the ban on gays and lesbians serving openly, military chaplains led the opposition within the Pentagon working group. The same was true last year when the Comprehensive Review Working Group was conducting its investigation on the repeal of DADT. The chiefs of chaplains from the Army, Navy and Air Force, all from conservative denominations, were unanimous in their opposition to repeal. Their civilian allies from the Center for Military Readiness, Family Research Council, Alliance Defense Fund, Focus on the Family, Chaplains Alliance for Religious Liberty, and many denominational endorsers lobbied Congress to keep DADT and filed numerous documents opposing repeal with the Pentagon. [...] What about the right to religious liberty and access to welcoming and affirming military chaplains? And how can one find a safe and trusting environment on an installation where religious needs can be met? A brief history of the military chaplaincy might help answer those questions. The concept of a military chaplaincy strains the delicate balance between religious liberty and the separation of church and state, values enshrined in the First Amendment of the Constitution. Citizens of the United States hold religious liberty to be a fundamental human right. At the same time, the establishment clause prohibits the recognition or preference of any official religion. Chaplains serving as endorsed clergy and commissioned military officers must walk that narrow and often precarious line between free exercise and religious establishment. Other nations throughout history have long enlisted the support and services of clergy. The biblical record extols the exploits of Aaron, High Priest and brother of Moses, who served as spiritual counselor and military advisor. In the past, clergy have been called on to bless the troops, seek God’s favor, pray for the weather, mediate in times of war and peace, and even serve as sort of a rabbit’s foot for military leaders and service members. But that would hardly justify the mingling of church and state as seen in today’s military chaplaincy. [...] Some have objected to the demands of tolerance and pluralism, suggesting that the religious liberties and prerogatives of chaplains trump the duty to care for all service members, particularly service members who identify as LGBT. In a Feb. 17, 2010, letter to Former Secretary of Defense Robert Gates, the Alliance Defense Fund wrote: “Ominously, supporters of the policy change are already arguing that normalizing homosexual behavior would require chaplains to provide pastoral counsel to individuals engaged in such behavior, and that refusal to do so based on religious objections would be a ‘breach of duty,’” concluding that such would be a violation of chaplains’ religious liberty. [...]
“As long as a city is encircled with walls all around,” wrote John Chrysostom, “it mocks its besiegers and remains in perfect safety. But once a breach is made in the wall, no larger than a gate, the circuit is no more use to it, though all the rest stands safe.” It is the same, he says, in the church: “As long as the nimble wits and the wisdom of the shepherd encompass it like a wall all around, all the enemy’s devices end in his own shame and ridicule, and the inhabitants remain unharmed; but when someone manages to break down a part of this defense, even though he fails to destroy it all, from that moment practically the whole city is ruined through that one part.” John Chrysostom on Culture Warsa And the words of the LORD are flawless, like silver refined* in a furnace of clay, purified seven times. Psalm 12:6
I doubt the issues are any different since they are all human. It's going to be about money,power and control,not being home enough,being home too much,not enough sex,too much sex,jealousy,and relatives. Some things are universal. Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
Yes he was booted. Not so much because he was wiccan but that he was sponsored as a Pentecostal chaplain ND THEN TURNED WICCAN. Thus he lost his 'sponsorship' of the denomination and when that happens the Army will boot the chaplain. Don't think there are any other wiccan chaplains. The post chaplains usually give in to their demands of funds for their witchcraft ceremonies. So the Wiccan lied about his intent. Gee, what a surprise. From this day forward we can expect just about any cult (in the name of "equal protection/rights") to be humored. Never mind military and civilian law and protocol were always maintained accordingly. ALL this "social justice" nonsense adopting civilian criteria comes straight from the House of Ill Repute, Sodom, DC.
Dedicated to all the Wiccans. Enjoy the trip.
It is the same, he says, in the church: “As long as the nimble wits and the wisdom of the shepherd encompass it like a wall all around, all the enemy’s devices end in his own shame and ridicule, and the inhabitants remain unharmed; but when someone manages to break down a part of this defense, even though he fails to destroy it all, from that moment practically the whole city is ruined through that one part.” ~ John Chrysostom on Culture Warsa Wisdom and observations well worth repeating, Gary. Thanks. America's gates were severely compromised in 1973; Today the city walls of our nation, our church of righteousness and commitment to the principles of good, honor, and virtue have been breached by the enemy within, collapsed and carnage on display as seen though this Soviet lens, Berlin, 1945. Only THEN will these perverse subversives be happy. In my mind, the above photo presents the fantasy and goal of the the anti-Christian, anti-God, anti-American principle.
Twisted Sister. A Cartoon character "band" that prayed upon adolescent stupidity and ignorance. Musically, and every way possible Dee Snider and they were an embarrassment to the eye, to the ear, and to the soul.
This is what I found on the guy. “Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”
The only way they will ever be happy (and this might be somewhat of a stretch since I don't think they ever can be happy, assholes never are) is if they defeat you so totally that you eventually agree with their point of view, I.E. become one of them!!! “Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”
There are 234 priests serving as active duty chaplains in the Army, Air Force and Navy for about 275,000 Catholic military personnel. About 25 percent of all personnel in the armed forces are Catholic, and eight percent of military chaplains are Catholic. Southern Baptists have nearly 1,500 endorsed chaplains serving in the U.S. military, more than any other denomination or faith group. 234 priests being 8% of military chaplains infers the total of chaplains is ~2,925. The article infers that a requirement to engage in counseling same-sex marriage partners would result in the decertification of 1,500 Southern Baptists and 234 Roman Catholics, and presumably some unknown quantity of Christian fundamentalists, Jews and Muslims. A loss of 1,734 Baptist/Catholic chaplains of 2,925 total would be 59% of all chaplains. This is not a choice made by the individual chaplain. Their religious group asserted it would withdraw its endorsement causing the chaplain to be ineligible for the military chaplain corps. Would a chaplain corps that 100% supports gay marriage be able to survive in the military?
FYI. I was not aware of this until last night. Unless there is a policy change, it appears Catholic and Southern Baptist chaplains are barred from counseling same-sex couples since a 2013 military archdiocese statement of guidance, and the Southern Baptist Convention has acted similarly. That would affect over half the chaplain corps. Catholic Military Chaplains Barred From From Performing Gay Weddings, Funerals, Counseling [HuffPo Article] http://www.milarch.org/site/apps/nlnet/content2.aspx?c=dwJXKgOUJiIaG&b=6536793&ct=13291927¬oc=1 CATHOLIC STATEMENT OF GUIDANCE Archbishop Broglio has issued a steatement which provides guidance for Catholic chaplains and contract priests and deacons who may encounter ministry situations involving Catholic or non-Catholic parties in same gender “marital” relationships. The full text for Archbishop Broglio's statement Renewed Fidelity in Favor of Evangelization can be found below: "As members of the Church founded by Jesus Christ to meet the needs of the baptized and to proclaim that good news about the salvation given by Him, we are also aware of His clear teaching about the danger of scandal (Mt. 18:6). This world is a pilgrimage to life without end. At the conclusion of our walk through life we must stand before the Throne of Grace to give an accounting of our fidelity. St. Paul reminds priests to be all things to all people (1Cor. 9:22). A clear disservice is rendered if the truth of the Gospel is confused by the actions of those ordained to disseminate that truth. The current situation makes it necessary to reiterate with clarity the teaching of the Catholic Church regarding homosexuality. However, it must never be forgotten that the human condition occasions many failings. St. Paul continually reminds us of that fact in his letters to the communities of believers. Priests ordained to minister Word and Sacrament and endorsed to serve Catholics in the Armed Forces, the Veterans Administration Medical Centers, and those who serve the US Federal Government outside the borders of the United States of America know that theirs is a twenty-four-seven vocation. By speech, action, and example they witness to the truth revealed by the Lord in all that they do (see Eph. 4:14). Recent changes in interpretations of the laws of the Federal Government oblige me to recall what is clearly held by the Catholic Church. At the same time I am grateful to the Congress of the United States for its passage of renewed conscience-protection language, specifically for chaplains in the Armed Forces. Ministry No Catholic priest or deacon may be forced by any authority to witness or bless the union of couples of the same gender. No Catholic priest or deacon can be obliged to assist at a “Strong Bonds” or other “Marriage Retreat”, if that gathering is also open to couples of the same gender. A priest who is asked to counsel non-Catholic parties in a same-gendered relationship will direct them to a chaplain who is able to assist. Catholic parties will, of course, be encouraged by the priest to strive to live by the teaching of the Gospel. Participation in retirements, changes of command, and promotion ceremonies is possible, as long as the priest is not required to acknowledge or approve of a “spouse” of the same gender. While the tradition of the Catholic Church always tries to find reasons to bury the dead, a priest may not be placed in a situation where his assistance at a funeral for a Catholic would give the impression that the Church approves of same sex “marital” relationships (see CIC, c. 1184, §1,3º). In the case of doubt, the Archbishop for the Military Services, USA must be consulted (see CIC, c. 1184, §2). Lay Ministries Obviously, anyone who is known to be in a sinful relationship is excluded from ministries in the Catholic community. While this list is not intended to cover every situation, lectors, extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion, altar servers, catechists, and members of the Catholic Council immediately come to mind. Participation We are also mindful of the Lord’s words, “Let the one among you who is guiltless be the first to throw a stone…” (Jn. 8:7b). The Church must minister to all regardless of their sexual inclination. While the invitation to conversion cannot be diluted, the door to the mercy of Christ, obtained through His Cross, must be kept open. Priests and deacons will be guided by the principles of the Catechism of the Catholic Church (cf. nos. 2358-2359) and never forget that it is the sin that is hated and never the sinner. In the quest for continued fidelity to the truth of the Gospel, it must not be forgotten that estimates indicate that same-gender couples represent less than half of one percent of those in the Armed Forces. While every individual is important, such a small group cannot be allowed to mandate policy for all. Guidance for Catholics in Command Positions I am not unaware that the faithful entrusted to my pastoral care also include those Catholics who exercise command positions. They can be faced with additional questions as they fulfill their responsibilities to those above and below them in the chain of command. Consequently in response to a doubt raised by the AMS regarding the question of a person’s possible cooperation with evil, the National Catholic Bioethics Center (NCBC) stated: “Commanders of United States military installations/veterans’ facilities (hereafter, ‘commanders’) would not be engaging in morally illicit cooperation, but rather tolerable remote mediate material cooperation with evil by implementing federal employee benefits accruing pursuant to same-sex marriage, as required by United States v. Windsor. Our determination is contingent on the situations in which commanders are unable to avoid such cooperation without jeopardizing their own just right to their employment security for themselves and/or their families. This is also contingent on the commander making known his/her objection to being required to so participate, as well as on attempting through legal channels to continue to accomplish changes in policy consistent with the historic understanding of marriage and family as based on natural moral law. Also, if without incurring a demotion of loss or downgrade of position/rank/grade or other serious harm, there is a mechanism to have others more senior in the chain of command to carry out the implementation of such policy, this should be pursued.” Most Reverend Timothy P. Broglio - - - - - Washington, DC, 17 September 2013, Memorial of St. Robert Bellarmine Response to the Archdiocese for Military Services by The National Catholic Bioethics Center (NCBC) Question Pertaining to Cooperation with Evil: Re – Commanders’ of Military Installations/Veterans’ Facilities Compliance with Same-Sex Couple Benefits Pursuant to the U.S. Supreme Court Decision (SCOTUS) United States v. Windsor Conclusion: Commanders of United States military installations/veterans’ facilities (hereafter, “commanders”) would not be engaging in morally illicit cooperation, but rather tolerable remote mediate material cooperation with evil by implementing federal employee benefits accruing pursuant to same-sex marriage, as required by United States v. Windsor. Our determination is contingent on the situations in which commanders are unable to avoid such cooperation without jeopardizing their own just right to their employment security for themselves and/or their families. This is also contingent on the commander making known his/her objection to being required to so participate, as well as on attempting through legal channels to continue to accomplish changes in policy consistent with the historic understanding of marriage and family as based on natural moral law. Also, if without incurring a demotion of loss or downgrade of position/rank/grade or other serious harm, there is a mechanism to have others more senior in the chain of command to carry out the implementation of such policy, this should be pursued. History: The federal Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA), signed into law on September 21, 1996, defined marriage under federal policy, and the federal benefits that can accrue from it, as between one man and one woman. SCOTUS, in United States v. Windsor (June 26, 2013, to be implemented by July 21, 2013, retroactive to date of decision; but installations have until October 1, 2013 to fully implement this policy change), overturned section 3 of DOMA, pertaining to the federal benefits that were available to heterosexual couples, finding that to prevent access to such benefits by legally married same-sex couples is unconstitutional. Such federal benefits include, among other benefits: federal employee health (including COBRA) and pension benefits; federal employee option to use family medical leave to care for a spouse; federal employer recognition of the children of same-sex married couples as the employee’s stepchildren (if not biological or adopted children of both partners); spousal income tax exclusion of employer-provided health benefits; Social Security survivors’ benefits; the opportunity to sponsor a foreign-born spouse for citizenship; and access to veterans’ spousal benefits. The decision concluded that DOMA violated the Fifth Amendment’s guarantee of equal protection of laws as applied to persons of the same sex who are legally married under the laws of their state. Moral Question: Can Commanders who are responsible for implementing the aforementioned policy for their military and civilian personnel, and their now legally recognized (under federal law) families, do so without engaging in morally illicit cooperation with evil? It is our understanding that through guidance issued by the U.S. Department of Defense in September 2011, military chaplains in installation chapels may witness/perform same-sex marriages if they choose to do so; however, this is not the question that has been posed to the NCBC at present. Cooperation with Evil: Formal Cooperation in evil, which always is morally illicit, would exist if the cooperator (commander) has the same intent as these principal agents (the federal government and the same-sex couples) in recognizing same-sex marriages as equivalent to heterosexual marriages through the granting of federal benefits. The evil that is occurring is not in the actual granting of such benefits, but in the affirmation of unions contrary to natural law, as well as of the actions that contribute to fatherlessness or motherlessness of children. Since the commander may implement such policies out of obedience to the chain of command not for the sake of promoting immorality, but to maintain the commander’s position/rank/grade, this might appear to be implicit formal cooperation. However, when there is an objection to the policy, and since the granting of employee benefits, itself, does not accomplish unions contrary to natural moral law, or create homes which already exist that are fatherless or motherless, the commander’s implementation of federal policies pursuant to United States v. Windsor does not constitute formal cooperation in evil, explicit or implicit. Immediate Material Cooperation with evil is virtually always morally illicit as it provides material assistance that is essential to immoral acts of the principal agents, thus, causing the act to be accomplished. As cited, above, the causation between the granting of employees benefits and the immoral acts is not direct. Thus, the commander is not engaging in immediate material cooperation. Mediate Material Cooperation with evil involves the provision of material assistance which is non-essential to the immoral acts of the principal agents, which facilitates/makes possible the immoral acts, without a direct causal relationship. Depending on the significance of the cooperation to facilitating the immoral acts this cooperation may be proximate or remote. Both proximate or remote mediate material cooperation may be tolerated if: there is a proportionate good to be achieved/maintained in relationship to the evil (commander’s position/rank/grade and maintenance of support of self/family, and continued presence in the chain of command of a commander who respects natural moral law); efforts are made to avoid having to cooperate in the evil, as well as to change policy within what is possible based upon the role of the commander; there is an attempt to secure a mechanism to have others more senior in the chain of command to carry out the implementation of such policy; and objections to policy are presented. The role of the commander in implementation United States v. Windsor would appear to involve justifiable remote mediate material cooperation under the conditions specified in this section." Date: 10/2/2013
Following the 2009 Fort Hood shooting, Weinstein suggested that proselytizing by "fundamentalist Christians" may have created a hostile environment that contributed to the psychological pressure on Major Nidal Malik Hasan. Hasan reportedly claimed that he had faced harassing insults related to his Arab ethnic background and Islamic faith.[11][12][13] In November 2009, the American Family Association issued the statement "No More Muslims in the US Military", which explicitly stated that Muslim military enlistees be barred from military service in the United States armed forces on the grounds that "...just as Christians are taught to imitate the life of Christ, so Muslims are taught to imitate the Prophet in all things. Yesterday, Nidal Malik Hasan was simply being a good Muslim." [14] MRFF founder and president Mikey Weinstein 's denunciation of the AFA position as "bigoted, racist, [and] vile" was featured prominently by Hatewatch, the official blog of the Southern Poverty Law Center civil rights organization.[15]. Wikipedia
And the words of the LORD are flawless, like silver refined* in a furnace of clay, purified seven times. Psalm 12:6
Mikey W has declared war on Christians. And thus should be considered a domestic enemy combatant/terrorist.
I can see it from a thousand miles away. BLINDFOLDED. This guy was a lying, scheming homofascist from Minute One.
LOL...What a way with words. Yes, what makes these soul-defective self-loathing snakes "happy" is a shared the misery and death. In both this life as well as the next. They'll hi-five you as you both plunge into the depths of hell.
I went back and look at the posts on this thread and only 2 of them made any comments on this subject, and that was early on. “Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”
Thank you for clearing that up for me. Would a chaplain corps that 100% supports gay marriage be able to survive in the military? Of course. At least as far as the military is concerned. Same as if 100 % of the Chaplains serving did NOT support homosexual marriages (I HATE the term "gay" because by implication if homosexuals are happy,heterosexuals are unhappy) and the military told them to not marry homosexual military members. The US military does not make policy. They follow orders. Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
Correction. He has declared war on AMERICA. INCLUDING Christians. And thus should be considered a domestic enemy combatant/terrorist. Works for me. He is also a Israeli citizen,so we should just dump his ass out with bag and baggage at an Israeli airport,and tell him he will be shot on sight if he comes back to America. Let Israel deal with him and see how much he likes THAT. Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
Indeed. Yes they want full "conversion." That's the difference between an authoritarian and a totalitarian. The former wants you to respect his power. The latter wants you to become like them. But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead.--1 Corinthians 15:20-21
Seems the bishop was quite thorough. I even see they give guidance on lay Catholic commanders. But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead.--1 Corinthians 15:20-21
AFA was 100% correct and Weinstein, once again was wrong.
But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead.--1 Corinthians 15:20-21
Indoctrination starts in school. Chick has it pegged. Funny thing? The kid knows what's going on. But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead.--1 Corinthians 15:20-21
Did you see the straight flag?
Nice
But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead.--1 Corinthians 15:20-21
Yes, like it so much it is now a tagline. Wiccan people are like any other group of people. There are everything from scoundrels to saints in their ranks. I started my journey back to Christianity after I nearly died in a fall back in 1979 where I neatly died. I had an out of body experiance, and my adopted daughter has been patiently working on me until I reached the point I had a restoration of faith and did a reconciliation with a catholic priest. My faith only has grown since then. I imagine there are some of you who are too cynical to buy this, but that is OK. My love for and faith in Jesus does not require your belief or acceptance. Weinstein said military leaders need to understand “there is systematic misogyny, anti-Semitism and Islamophobia in the military.”
#2. To: Fred Mertz (#1)
#3. To: Fred Mertz (#1)
Let me take a stab in the dark, is Weinstein a Jew?
#4. To: Don (#0)
Activist Mikey Weinstein, president of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation, is demanding the U.S. military conduct a purge of chaplains who holds to the traditional teaching of homosexuality and marriage espoused by the first commander in chief, George Washington.
#5. To: nolu chan, Don (#4)
As the old testament and new testament condemn homosexual sex and define marriage in terms of a man and woman, this would seem to encompass all observant Jews and Christians.
#6. To: Pericles (#5)
Lots of Muslims in the military about the same number of Jews.....
#7. To: Fred Mertz (#1)
Let me take a stab in the dark, is Weinstein a Jew?
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts
#8. To: Don (#0)
#9. To: Don (#0)
Activist Mikey Weinstein, president of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation, is demanding the U.S. military conduct a purge of chaplains who holds to the traditional teaching of homosexuality and marriage espoused by the first commander in chief, George Washington.
#10. To: redleghunter (#8)
Weinstein is an idiot who has no idea of the mission of the chaplaincy.
#11. To: nolu chan (#6)
Now, what religion can the chaplains be drawn from? Wicca?
#12. To: nolu chan (#6)
#13. To: sneakypete (#9)
OK, I'm confused. Is this Military Religious freedom Foundation part of a military branch or government office?
#14. To: redleghunter (#8)
Weinstein is an idiot who has no idea of the mission of the chaplaincy.
#15. To: CZ82, sneakypete, redleghunter (#13)
Pete: ("OK, I'm confused. Is this Military Religious freedom Foundation part of a military branch or government office?")
The Military Religious Freedom Foundation (MRFF) is a watchdog group and advocacy organization founded in 2005 by Michael Weinstein.
#16. To: CZ82 (#13)
Here you go pete nothing more than another bunch of crackpots.
#17. To: Liberator (#15)
Weinstein describes the group's target as "a small subset of Fundamentalist Christianity that's called premilliennial, dispensational, reconstructionist, dominionist, fundamentalist, or just Dominionist Christianity.
#18. To: sneakypete (#17)
(Edited)
Kinda makes you wonder why he doesn't go after Judaism,doesn't it?
#19. To: Liberator (#14)
#20. To: Liberator (#18)
He probably hates religious Jews as well.
#21. To: redleghunter, Liberator (#19)
What it means is freedom FROM religion.
#22. To: sneakypete (#21)
#23. To: redleghunter (#22)
Freedom of gives an option. Freedom from is exclusive.
#24. To: redleghunter, sneakypete (#22)
Freedom of gives an option. Freedom from is exclusive.
#25. To: sneakypete, redleghunter (#21)
(Edited)
If you don't have the freedom to not be religious,you don't have the freedom to refuse to follow religious beliefs you don't share so you CAN follow the religious beliefs you do share.
#26. To: Liberator (#24)
The intent and language can't be any clearer:
#27. To: Liberator (#25)
If you don't have the freedom to not be religious,you don't have the freedom to refuse to follow religious beliefs you don't share so you CAN follow the religious beliefs you do share.
#28. To: sneakypete (#27)
(Edited)
I know this is personal for you,but that is no reason to have your head stuck up your ass about it.
#29. To: sneakypete (#26)
Yeah,that's why nobody disagrees about it,huh?
#30. To: sneakypete (#27)
Freedom OF religion also CLEARLY means freedom FROM religion because it bars the state from forcing us to adopt a state religion.
#31. To: Liberator (#28)
You're projecting, because this case IS personal...FOR YOU.
#32. To: Liberator (#30)
(Edited)
And "freedom OF/FROM religion" is still freedom to worship as you please.
#33. To: sneakypete (#31)
My claim and fear is that it is a POTENTIAL federal case because so many fundies want to "bring God back to government".
#34. To: Liberator (#33)
Btw -- NO ONE has EVER been coerced via gubmint mandate into believing in God. There IS no such threat, never has been. Why so paranoid over a phantom bogeyman?
#35. To: sneakypete (#9)
#36. To: redleghunter (#8)
#37. To: nolu chan (#4)
#38. To: Fred Mertz (#1)
Let me take a stab in the dark, is Weinstein a Jew?
#39. To: Ferret Mike (#12)
The U.S. Army Chaplains Guide to Wicca
#40. To: sneakypete, Liberator (#20)
Ever notice how it seems like the majority of the Zionists don't live in Israel?(G)
#41. To: Don (#37)
Many Jews are faint from being observant.
#42. To: nolu chan (#39)
#43. To: nolu chan (#40)
Ever notice how it seems like the majority of the Zionists don't live in Israel?(G)
#44. To: Ferret Mike (#42)
Confronting people to try to challenge a service member's faith is something a Chaplain should never do.
#45. To: sneakypete (#44)
#46. To: Ferret Mike, redleghunter, Bob Celeste, garyspfc, Don, Stoner (#42)
The religion of the chaplain is not the point...
#47. To: Liberator (#46)
(Edited)
I have long been a Deadhead. I have seen 171 concerts and collect Grateful Dead graphics and icons. The last shows of the Dead are occurring right now this weekend at Soldier's Field in Chicago. I also have worked for Ray Sewell at one of his 'Chez Ray's restaurants. Ray once was the chef that traveled with the band and prepared meals and food. I have gone to Ken Kesey's ranch in Pleasant Hill, Oregon with Ray and his family to two of Ken's New Year's Day parties, Ray and others in that community knew me from my near death from a forty-three foot fall from a tree cutting protest which made me well known in my area. I have also enjoyed the backstage scene of the group originally called the Warlocks and the Grateful Dead is one of my favorite groups. I just have this variation of a Steal Your Face up to honor the band and their family who's last shows are this weekend which also marks fifty years of the existence of the Grateful Dead.
#48. To: A K A Stone (#45)
Like your ass buddy. You don't support the first amendment.
#49. To: Liberator, Ferret Mike, redleghunter, Bob Celeste, garyspfc, Don, Stoner, *Religious History and Issues* (#46)
The religion of the chaplain is not the point...
#50. To: sneakypete, Ferret Mike, redleghunter, Bob Celeste, garyspfc, Don, Stoner (#49)
In fact,NO religion will be safe other than the religion that worships the power of the government over the serfs.
#51. To: Ferret Mike (#47)
#52. To: Ferret Mike (#42)
The religion of the chaplain is not the point, a chaplain is there to serve the spiritual and emotional needs of others.
His job as a chaplain, is to provide spiritual and emotional support. It is not to convert anyone to his personal religious beliefs. He is there to offer support, not to save them from perdition. A rabbi could offer support to a Catholic without condemning him for having bacon with his eggs. A single pregnant servicewoman does not seek the support of a chaplain to hear about the evils of pre-marital sex. A chaplain cannot counsel a muslim on the evils of Islam. A Christian might not take too kindly to a muslim chaplain counseling them on Sharia and halal. The chaplain must be able to offer comfort and support to all. It is not unChristian to comfort a gay person without confronting them with unwelcome condemnation of their lifestyle.
Title: Pentagon Urged To Boot Chaplains Who Oppose 'Gay' Marriage
#53. To: Liberator (#50)
But what better way to achieve that than to cripple Christians and their values, which have undoubtedly provided America its traditional underpinnings?
#54. To: Liberator, Ferret Mike (#51)
I can't presume to know your heart -- whether this symbolism plays into your display of this particular "Grateful Dead" icon, or it's just simply a benign, favorite GD icon of yours. But for others...it is what it is.
#55. To: nolu chan, Liberator, CZ82, GarySpFc (#52)
What does it mean to "oppose gay marriage?" Does it mean to morally or religiously oppose it? To refuse to perform or participate in a gay marriage? To refuse to offer positive reinforcement in counseling a prospective spouse about an intended gay marriage? How does a Catholic chaplain positively counsel someone about doing something his religion condemns?
#56. To: nolu chan, redleghunter, Ferret Mike (#52)
SCOTUS has determined abortion is a constitutional right. Should the military kick out all doctors who oppose abortion? Somebody in the military opposes abortion as it is almost impossible for the military member to obtain one in a military hospital. Many or most civilian hospitals do not perform the procedure either.
#57. To: sneakypete (#53)
(Edited)
Going after Christianity takes out a politically powerful group that might stand against them,as well as providing them with organized and powerful allies from other religions who are jealous of the influenes and power that Christianity has in this country,and want to divide up the Christians goods amongst themselves.
#58. To: Liberator (#56)
1st Amendment "Rights" are now contingent on which political ideology of the purported "Equal Rights" protection clause of the now bogus 14th Amendment one stands...
Fundamental rights. Those rights which have their source, and are explicitly or implicitly guaranteed, in the federal Constitution, Price v. Cohen, C.A.Pa., 715 F.2d 87, 93, and state constitutions, Sidle v. Majors, 264 Ind. 206, 341 N.E.2d 763. See e.g., Bill of rights.
In addition to their due process argument, petitioners contend that the Equal Protection Clause requires their States to license and recognize same-sex marriages. The majority does not seriously engage with this claim. Its discussion is, quite frankly, difficult to follow. The central point seems to be that there is a "synergy between" the Equal Protection Clause and the Due Process Clause, and that some precedents relying on one Clause have also relied on the other. Ante, at 20. Absent from this portion of the opinion, however, is anything resembling our usual framework for deciding equal protection cases. It is casebook doctrine that the "modern Supreme Court's treatment of equal protection claims has used a means-ends methodology in which judges ask whether the classification the government is using is sufficiently related to the goals it is pursuing." G. Stone, L. Seidman, C. Sunstein, M. Tushnet, & P. Karlan, Constitutional Law 453 (7th ed. 2013). The majority's approach today is different:
#59. To: redleghunter (#55)
Defense Department spokesman Navy Lt. Cmdr. Nate Christensen said the ruling will not have any effect on the military when it comes to marriage recognition or benefits, since these have been in place since the court struck down the Defense of Marriage Act in 2013.
#60. To: redleghunter (#55)
I'm sure a gay military couple will test the waters.
They will come in to either a Baptist or Catholic chaplain and ask for marriage counseling. Both will point out that they do not advise such unions and will no doubt refer them to some chaplain who will. We will only hear about the refusal part and not the referral part.
#61. To: nolu chan (#60)
If cellmates decide to get married, what happens? If the prison chaplain is Catholic, what does he do?
#62. To: nolu chan, out damned spot, cz82, redleghunter, liberator, mister white, gatlin, grandisland, cranky, chuck wagon, vinny (#60)
#63. To: CZ82, redleghunter (#59)
Defense Department spokesman Navy Lt. Cmdr. Nate Christensen said the ruling will not have any effect on the military when it comes to marriage recognition or benefits, since these have been in place since the court struck down the Defense of Marriage Act in 2013.
#64. To: nolu chan (#60)
But if it works as it has with abortions in the military, it may be difficult to find someone who will volunteer for the function. I rather doubt that military doctors unanimously oppose abortion at a personal level, but they are not going out of their way to make it available.
#65. To: redleghunter (#55)
I'm sure a gay military couple will test the waters. They will come in to either a Baptist or Catholic chaplain and ask for marriage counseling. Both will point out that they do not advise such unions and will no doubt refer them to some chaplain who will. We will only hear about the refusal part and not the referral part. It will make "news" and the chaplains will be vilified but exonerated yet their career will be over. It will be a victory for the homosexual lobby. Future chaplains will be recruited based on the same sex marriage litmus test and another institution will be hijacked by the secular left.
#66. To: Liberator (#56)
At what point does one person's fundamental right to marry someone of the same sex outweigh another person's freedom of religious expression?
#67. To: Liberator (#57)
Yes...But for Christians, America has not really been about expanding "Christian" power, influence, and goods.
#68. To: A K A Stone (#61)
And Obama is laughing as he knows he has sowed many destructive seeds that will affect long after the freak is gone.
#69. To: sneakypete (#68)
The Bush Crime Family,Jimmy Carter,Bill Clinton,and the entire RNC are laughing along with him.
#70. To: sneakypete (#67)
(Edited)
(Yes...But for Christians, America has not really been about expanding "Christian" power, influence, and goods.)
#71. To: nolu chan, CZ82, redleghunter (#63)
When opposite sex marital discord occurs, the couple is frequently mandated to marital counseling. How do they get counseled by a chaplain who finds their behavior morally repulsive and whom the couple also finds repulsive?
#72. To: nolu chan (#58)
I disagree on one important point. The recent decision is based upon the Due Process Clause and the Equal Protection Clause is cited only for ancillary support to the main argument that same-sex marriage is a fundamental right. Really, I have not lost my mind and just made this crap up.
#73. To: nolu chan, CZ82, liberator (#63)
As more same-sex married couples enter the military community, difficulties will arise.
#74. To: Liberator (#71)
This is when a flaming Pagan or Wiccan "chaplain" will step in.
#75. To: Liberator (#72)
It's just been my observation that the 14A has been subverted and stretched faaaar beyond any original intent. Depending on which ideologue is driving it, a Mac Truck can be (and is) driven thru its loopholes.
#76. To: redleghunter (#73)
I'm retired now from the Army, but in a job where I interact with military. I'll ask.
#77. To: nolu chan, CZ82, liberator (#76)
I envision the response, "Don't ask me. I don't have a clue."
#78. To: redleghunter, CZ82, liberator (#77)
I mean who wants to see their Command Sergeant Major on the dance floor with his husband dancing cheek to cheek?
#79. To: nolu chan (#78)
Something for troubled couples will continue. It does not have to be effective, but command has to be able to say they took appropriate measures. They have to invent something and deem it appropriate.
#80. To: Liberator (#70)
You really do have the mind of a 10 year old, don't you?
#81. To: Liberator (#71)
This is when a flaming Pagan or Wiccan "chaplain" will step in.
#82. To: redleghunter (#73)
What about those chaplain funded 'marriage retreats' and 'marriage encounters' weekends?
#83. To: nolu chan (#74)
This entails an assumption that there will be such chaplains, and in sufficient quantity.
#84. To: sneakypete (#81)
Please tell us about your vast experience...
#85. To: sneakypete (#80)
(Edited)
You just go ahead and keep ignoring all the people murdered by various religious cults,as well as all the local and major wars that were fought in the name of Gawd if that makes you feel better,if that is what helps you get through the day.
#86. To: Liberator (#84)
Let's just call this post of yours, 'Sneakypete's Mount Everest of Irrelevance, Stupidity and Ignorance'.
#87. To: Liberator (#85)
You don't even know the definition of "atheist."
#88. To: sneakypete (#83)
AFAIK the US military is under no obligation to fulfill any sort of quota for their Chaplain Corps,and from THEIR POV a Jewish, Catholic, Protestant, Muslim, Buddist, or whatever Chaplain could serve as well as a Wiccian or Pagan Chaplain for general purposes.
#89. To: Liberator, redleghunter (#71)
#90. To: nolu chan (#88)
Counseling troubled same-sex married couples is the specific problem I have cited.
#91. To: CZ82, liberator (#89)
Ummm I don't think there are pagan/wiccan chaplains in the military, the last one that I heard of got the boot about 8-10 years ago...
#92. To: sneakypete (#49)
#93. To: sneakypete (#90)
A Bible or Quran thumping chaplain may not be able to provide such counseling
Of course they can. It's their duty to do so. Their jobs are not about "me",they are about the soldiers,sailors,airmen,or Marines they are sworn to serve.
Catholic Military Chaplains Barred From From Performing Gay Weddings, Funerals, Counseling
By David Gibson
Posted: 09/25/2013 11:15 am EDT
Updated: 09/25/2013 5:01 pm EDT The armed services have traditionally reflected the society they are sworn to defend. However, with the elimination of the draft, the military has moved to the political and cultural right, and so has the military chaplaincy. Today, partially as a result of a determined effort by some evangelical groups, chaplains endorsed by socially conservative denominations are in the majority within the military. Consequently, they exerted a significant and negative influence in the long and laborious journey to repeal DADT.
#94. To: Liberator, ALL (#50)
#95. To: nolu chan (#93)
The chaplain may be unable to counsel how to best maintain a loving gay marriage when his own religious belief prevents him from discussing gay marriage in an approving manner.
#96. To: redleghunter, CZ82, nolu chan, Ferret Mike (#91)
("Ummm I don't think there are pagan/wiccan chaplains in the military, the last one that I heard of got the boot about 8-10 years ago...")
#97. To: Liberator (#96)
#98. To: GarySpFC, redleghunter, CZ82, nolu chan (#94)
As long as a city is encircled with walls all around,” wrote John Chrysostom, “it mocks its besiegers and remains in perfect safety. But once a breach is made in the wall, no larger than a gate, the circuit is no more use to it, though all the rest stands safe.”
#99. To: A K A Stone (#97)
(Edited)
#100. To: redleghunter, Liberator, nolu chan (#91)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/18/AR2007021801396.html
#101. To: Liberator, redleghunter, LFs resident Leftards (#98)
Only THEN will these perverse subversives be happy.
#102. To: sneakypete (#95)
Catholic Military Chaplains Barred From From Performing Gay Weddings, Funerals, Counseling
#103. To: redleghunter (#91)
Renewed Fidelity in Favor of Evangelization
Archbishop for the Military Services
#104. To: redleghunter, ALL (#91)
#105. To: GarySpFC, redleghunter (#104)
#106. To: CZ82, redleghunter, nolu chan (#100)
#107. To: CZ82, redleghunter, LFs resident Leftards (#101)
(Edited)
The only way they will ever be happy (and this might be somewhat of a stretch since I don't think they ever can be happy, assholes never are) is if they defeat you so totally that you eventually agree with their point of view, I.E. become one of them!!!
#108. To: Liberator, LFs resident Leftards (#107)
Yes, what makes these soul-defective self-loathing snakes "happy" is a shared the misery and death.
#109. To: nolu chan (#102)
This is not a choice made by the individual chaplain. Their religious group asserted it would withdraw its endorsement causing the chaplain to be ineligible for the military chaplain corps.
#110. To: Liberator (#105)
Mikey W has declared war on Christians.
#111. To: CZ82, Liberator, tomder55, GarySpFc (#101)
The only way they will ever be happy (and this might be somewhat of a stretch since I don't think they ever can be happy, assholes never are) is if they defeat you so totally that you eventually agree with their point of view, I.E. become one of them!!!
#112. To: nolu chan (#103)
#113. To: GarySpFC (#104)
#114. To: Liberator, A K A Stone, CZ82 (#107)
#115. To: redleghunter (#114)
#116. To: A K A Stone (#115)
#117. To: A K A Stone (#115)
Did you see the straight flag?
#118. To: Liberator (#96)
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