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New Discovery! 2023 Hottest in over 120 Million Years 2024 and beyond in prophecy Questions Status: Not Logged In; Sign In LEFT WING LOONS See other LEFT WING LOONS Articles Title: Jeb Bush: Rand Paul "Wrong" To Call PATRIOT Act Unconstitutional Source: RealClearPolitics URL Source: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/vi ... t_act_is_unconstitutional.html Published: May 22, 2015 Author: NH1 News Post Date: 2015-05-22 11:09:21 by Hondo68 Ping List: *2016 The Likely Suspects*     Subscribe to *2016 The Likely Suspects* Keywords: None Views: 4042 Comments: 22 “I think we need to reauthorize the Patriot Act, and put aside who’s speaking where. The simple fact is that it’s been an effective tool to keep us free and to keep us from being attacked by Islamic terrorists. That’s the main focus," Bush also said. "If it could be updated, modified, fine. But it needs to be reauthorized," Bush added. Poster Comment: Read my lips, no new taxes. /s If Bush likes the antiPatriot Act, rest assured... It's unconstitutional and IT SUCKS! Subscribe to *2016 The Likely Suspects* Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread   Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 18. #4. To: hondo68 (#0) “I think we need to reauthorize the Patriot Act, and put aside who’s speaking where. The simple fact is that it’s been an effective tool to keep us free and to keep us from being attacked by Islamic terrorists. That’s the main focus," No it hasn't you bloody wanker. FBI admits no major cases cracked with Patriot Act snooping powers Deckard  posted on  2015-05-22   13:09:41 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #7. To: Deckard (#4) (Edited) FBI admits no major cases cracked with Patriot Act snooping powers. That's interesting. Do you read this as saying that NO terrorists attacks have been foiled as a result of the Patriot Act since September 11, 2001? Gatlin  posted on  2015-05-22   16:19:29 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #9. To: Gatlin (#7) I'm saying that the PATRIOT Act is anything but patriotic. It is more about keeping tabs on Americans than stopping terrorists. The stinking law was written and ready to go BEFORE 9/11. They just needed a "catalyzing event...a New Pearl Harbor", well at least according to the neocon-infested Project For a New American Century cabal, which included Jeb Bush. Less than 1% of Patriot Act’s “Sneak and Peek” Delayed Notice Warrants are Used against Terrorism The Patriot Act as we have exhaustively documented is the key police state weapon the authorities have in their armory. The party line often heard from Neo-Cons in their attempts to defend the Patriot Act either circulate around the contention that the use of the Patriot Act has never been abused or that it isn't being used against American citizens. The Legislation's reach HAS gone beyond terrorism and it IS actively being used to target American citizens. Remember, section 802 is specifically aimed at US citizens and announces any crime as "domestic terrorism". Citizens can be held without a trial as "Enemy Combatants". Let us recap just some of the horror stories that misuse of the Patriot Act has produced, As you will see these are not isolated incidents, this is common practice. Homeland Security Agents Visit Toy Store When Homeland Security agents arrived at the Pufferbelly Toys store, the lead agent asked owner Stephanie Cox whether she carried a toy called the Magic Cube, which he said was an illegal copy of the Rubik's Cube, one of the most popular toys of all time. Invoking the Patriot Act, he told her to remove the Magic Cube from her shelves, and he watched to make sure she complied. Patriot Act Being Used to Harass BlackBoxVoting.org website Activist Bev Harris was told not to reveal to anyone the fact that she and her website were being investigated under the Patriot Act. It is illegal for a government agency to go in and demand the list of all the members of a group. And you can't investigate leaks to journalists by going in and grabbing the reporter's computer. Secret Service Questions Students Two students who were interrogated by the Secret Service following remarks the teenagers made about the President during a class discussion. The discussion was about the war in Iraq and while the exact wording is up for debate, the teacher didn't consider it mere criticism, but a direct threat and she called the Secret Service. Boy investigated by FBI for researching paper on Chesapeake Bay Bridge A 12-year-old kid at Boys' Latin researches a paper on the Bay Bridge, and suddenly the Joint Terrorist Task Force shows up in the headmaster's office. Photographer Arrested "Under Patriot Act" A Denver photographer was arrested while taking pictures in Denver, during Vice President Dick Cheney's visit to the city. Denver resident Mike Maginnis reports being physically assaulted by Denver police. FBI says Patriot Act used in Vegas strip club corruption probe The FBI used the USA Patriot Act to obtain financial information about key figures in a political corruption probe centered on striptease club owner Michael Galardi, an agent said. Webmaster Sherman Austin, Jailed under PATRIOT Act Political prisoner Sherman Austin, who made headlines last year after being targeted as one of the first casualties of the infamous USA PATRIOT Act, was released from the Federal Corrections Institute in Tucson and left Arizona July 12 to return to Los Angeles. Using The Patriot Act To Target Patriots The Patriot Act has been used to obtain search warrants against doctors and scientists who had been warning about the threat of bioterrorism in the U.S. Patriot Act used to prosecute U.S. civilian The CIA contract employee accused of abusing a prisoner in Afghanistan is being prosecuted under the Patriot Act in what legal experts are calling a surprising and to some, troubling application of the new anti-terrorism law. Surprise! Controversial Patriot Act power now overwhelmingly used in drug investigations Deckard  posted on  2015-05-22   17:07:27 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #13. To: Deckard (#9) You slap a link down, don’t discuss it….and then run away to copy and paste more links. I want to stay on your link, which is: FBI admits no major cases cracked with Patriot Act snooping powers. Let’s look at that. Back in 2009, Najibullah Zazi was discovered plotting some serious terrorist bombing. He was arrested after purchasing large quantities of chemicals from beauty supply stores in a plot to detonate Triacetone Triperoxide (TATP) bombs on the NYC subway. His plot was considered extremely serious. Did the FBI use a special provision of the Patriot Act known as a "sneak and peek" to break into his car and swab it for chemicals, find his laptop in the car and mirror the hard drive and then use the evidence to arrest him and foil his plot? Or did the FBI just wait around until Zazi walked into their office and said: “Hey, boss, arrest me because I am a terrorist plotting bad things to kill Americans.” What’s that yellow journalism article talking about when it says the: “FBI admits no major cases cracked with Patriot Act snooping powers?” There are more such stories like the one with Zazi … 30 of them, the best I can count. Gatlin  posted on  2015-05-22   19:16:14 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #17. To: Gatlin, Deckard (#13) Did the FBI use a special provision of the Patriot Act known as a "sneak and peek" to break into his car and swab it for chemicals, find his laptop in the car and mirror the hard drive and then use the evidence to arrest him and foil his plot? Or did the FBI just wait around until Zazi walked into their office and said: “Hey, boss, arrest me because I am a terrorist plotting bad things to kill Americans.” Or did they get their information from the Brits? There have been reports contesting the official NSA story of its alleged achievement. http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/did-the-nsa-stop-najibullah-zazi Did the NSA stop Najibullah Zazi? By Steve Benen The Rachel Maddow Show 06/11/13 11:27 AM—UPDATED 10/31/13 02:59 PM [excerpt] The plot had progressed to a rather dangerous point – this was not just an aspirational goal – before Zazi was taken into custody. From there, the system worked flawlessly – Zazi cooperated with law enforcement; co-conspirators were caught; and many lives were saved. In the post-9/11 era, this was as big a counter-terrorism victory as any we’ve seen in the United States, even if most Americans have no idea it happened. Why am I bringing this up now? Because as Dan Amira explained, unnamed officials brought this up last week. Late last week, unnamed sources told CBS News, Reuters, and the New York Times that the NSA’s PRISM had helped to disrupt Najibullah Zazi’s plot to bomb New York’s subways in 2009. Thanks to PRISM, authorities were monitoring an e-mail address known to belong to a member of Al Qaeda. Zazi e-mailed that address and unwittingly revealed himself and his plans. He was arrested and now faces life in prison. Huzzah. But it wasn’t long before the credibility of this narrative was questioned. The Associated Press’ Adam Goldman explained that the NSA program was very likely irrelevant – British intelligence had already identified an al Qaeda email address, and shared that information with U.S. officials. Zazi did, in fact, send an urgent message to that address, which ultimately led to his arrest before he could successfully murder a lot of people. So, what does this have to do with NSA surveillance, metadata, and PRISM? Given what we know, nothing. But maybe, the argument goes, British intelligence learned of the al Qaeda email address in the first place thanks NSA programs. Right? No, as it turns out, the address was found on a laptop when a different terrorist was captured in 2009. It appears, then, that conventional intelligence gathering saved the day – though that’s not what the public heard over the weekend. On the Sunday shows, Senate Intelligence Committee Chair Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) and House Intelligence Committee Chair Mike Rogers (R-Mich.) both said that when it came to the Zazi case, the NSA programs in question were “exactly [what] was used.” It is, of course, possible that Feinstein and Rogers know details of the Zazi case that are highly relevant, and that the public is not aware of. But at a minimum, using this as an example to bolster the case in support of NSA surveillance seems dubious. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jun/12/nsa-surveillance-data-terror-attack Ed Pilkington in New York and Nicholas Watt in London The Guardian (UK) Wednesday 12 June 2013 10.51 EDT NSA surveillance played little role in foiling terror plots, experts say Obama administration says NSA data helped make arrests in two important cases – but critics say that simply isn't true Lawyers and intelligence experts with direct knowledge of two intercepted terrorist plots that the Obama administration says confirm the value of the NSA's vast data-mining activities have questioned whether the surveillance sweeps played a significant role, if any, in foiling the attacks. The defence of the controversial data collection operations, highlighted in a series of Guardian disclosures over the past week, has been led by Dianne Feinstein, chairwoman of the Senate intelligence committee, and her equivalent in the House, Mike Rogers. The two politicians have attempted to justify the NSA's use of vast data sweeps such as Prism and Boundless Informant by pointing to the arrests and convictions of would-be New York subway bomber Najibullah Zazi in 2009 and David Headley, who is serving a 35-year prison sentence for his role in the 2008 Mumbai attacks. Rogers told ABC's This Week that the NSA's bulk monitoring of phone calls and internet contacts was central to intercepting the plotters. "I can tell you, in the Zazi case in New York, it's exactly the programme that was used," he said. A similar point was made in anonymous briefings by administration officials to the New York Times and Reuters. But court documents lodged in the US and UK, as well as interviews with involved parties, suggest that data-mining through Prism and other NSA programmes played a relatively minor role in the interception of the two plots. Conventional surveillance techniques, in both cases including old-fashioned tip-offs from intelligence services in Britain, appear to have initiated the investigations. [...] Michael Dowling, a Denver-based attorney who acted as Zazi's defence counsel, said the full picture remained unclear as Zazi pleaded guilty before all details of the investigation were made public. But the lawyer said he was sceptical that mass data sweeps could explain what led law enforcement to Zazi. "The government says that it does not monitor content of these communications in its data collection. So I find it hard to believe that this would have uncovered Zazi's contacts with a known terrorist in Pakistan," Dowling said. Further scepticism has been expressed by David Davis, a former British foreign office minister who described the citing of the Zazi case as an example of the merits of data-mining as "misleading" and "an illusion". Davis pointed out that Operation Pathway was prematurely aborted in April 2009 after Bob Quick, then the UK's most senior counter-terrorism police officer, was pictured walking into Downing Street with top secret documents containing details of the operation in full view of cameras. The collapse of the operation, and arrests of suspects that hurriedly followed, came five months before Zazi was arrested in September 2009. "That was the operation that led to the initial data links to Zazi – they put the clues in the database which gave them the connections," Davis said. [snip] nolu chan  posted on  2015-05-22   21:24:49 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #18. To: nolu chan (#17) So, it appears that Gatlin is wrong again. Too bad we can't take his act to Vegas to bet on. Dead Culture Watch  posted on  2015-05-22   21:37:59 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   Replies to Comment # 18.         There are no replies to Comment # 18. End Trace Mode for Comment # 18. Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest

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