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Title: Jeb Bush: Rand Paul "Wrong" To Call PATRIOT Act Unconstitutional
Source: RealClearPolitics
URL Source: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/vi ... t_act_is_unconstitutional.html
Published: May 22, 2015
Author: NH1 News
Post Date: 2015-05-22 11:09:21 by Hondo68
Ping List: *2016 The Likely Suspects*     Subscribe to *2016 The Likely Suspects*
Keywords: None
Views: 4001
Comments: 22

“I think we need to reauthorize the Patriot Act, and put aside who’s speaking where. The simple fact is that it’s been an effective tool to keep us free and to keep us from being attacked by Islamic terrorists. That’s the main focus," Bush also said.

"If it could be updated, modified, fine. But it needs to be reauthorized," Bush added.


Poster Comment:

Read my lips, no new taxes. /s

If Bush likes the antiPatriot Act, rest assured... It's unconstitutional and IT SUCKS! Subscribe to *2016 The Likely Suspects*

Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread  


TopPage UpFull ThreadPage DownBottom/Latest

#1. To: hondo68 (#0)

What about Hitlery on this issue?

“Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest.” (Matthew 11:28)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-05-22   11:16:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: redleghunter (#1)

What about Hitlery on this issue?

I'm pretty sure she loves the antiPatriot Act and new taxes too. She's an undocumented Republican.


The D&R terrorists hate us because we're free, to vote second party

"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul

Hondo68  posted on  2015-05-22   11:21:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: hondo68, *Crime and Corruption*, *Hypocrisy and Hypocrites*, *2016 The Likely Suspects* (#0)

The simple fact is that it’s been an effective tool to keep us free and to keep us from being attacked by Islamic terrorists.

Sadly enough,I think this SOB really is so stupid he believes that crap,when the truth is the Patriot Act and similar legislation mostly serves to make the typical non-Blue-Blood American LESS free.

And give the man an award for gall for claiming anything he and his treasonous family support will keep us from "being attacked by Islamic terrorists" when the Saud Royal Family practically owns his entire freaking family and they are the biggest backers and financiers of Islamic terrorism in the world.

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-05-22   11:33:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: hondo68 (#0)

“I think we need to reauthorize the Patriot Act, and put aside who’s speaking where. The simple fact is that it’s been an effective tool to keep us free and to keep us from being attacked by Islamic terrorists. That’s the main focus,"

No it hasn't you bloody wanker.

FBI admits no major cases cracked with Patriot Act snooping powers

“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts

Deckard  posted on  2015-05-22   13:09:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: hondo68 (#0)

 The simple fact is that it’s been an effective tool to keep us free and to ...

Total permanent surveillance to keep us free.

A Pole  posted on  2015-05-22   14:01:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: hondo68 (#0)

Jeb Bush: Rand Paul "Wrong" To Call PATRIOT Act Unconstitutional

The Constitution:

Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

- - -

“I think we need to reauthorize the Patriot Act, and put aside who’s speaking where. The simple fact is that it’s been an effective tool to keep us free and to keep us from being attacked by Islamic terrorists. That’s the main focus," Bush also said.

It is the 4th Amendment which is supposed to keep us safe from such usurpations as the unconstitutional USA PATRIOT ACT and its unconstitutional search authorizations.

The searches need warrants, the warrants need probable cause, and general warrants are explicitly prohibited by the Constitution.

"If it could be updated, modified, fine. But it needs to be reauthorized," Bush added.

If it could be updated, modified, to comply with the Constitution, fine. That would entail eliminating the unconstitutional searches

Note that the 2nd Circuit ruled that the program exceeded what was authorized by Congress and avoided directly ruling on the constitutional question. If Congress were to change or amend the USA PATRIOT Act to authorize the bulk collection of data (a search) without a valid search warrant, it would likely be challenged and struck down on constitutional grounds.

http://www.ca2.uscourts.gov/decisions/isysquery/f9c4330d-9282-437f-a046-39e20ad834a9/14/doc/14-42_complete_opn.pdf

14-42

ACLU v. Clapper

UNITED STATES COURT OF APPEALS
For the Second Circuit

August Term, 2014

(Argued: September 2, 2014 Decided: May 7, 2015)

Docket No. 14-42-cv

________________

American Civil Liberties Union, American Civil Liberties Union Foundation, New York Civil Liberties Union, New York Civil Liberties Union Foundation,

Plaintiffs-Appellants,

— v. —

James R. Clapper, in his official capacity as Director of National Intelligence, Michael S. Rogers, in his official capacity as Director of the National Security Agency and Chief of the Central Security Service, Ashton B. Carter, in his official capacity as Secretary of Defense, Loretta E. Lynch, in her official capacity as Attorney General of the United States, and James B. Comey, in his official capacity as Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation,

Defendants-Appellees.*

________________

_______________

* The Clerk of the Court is respectfully directed to amend the official caption in this case to conform with the caption above. See Fed R. App. P. 43(c)(2)


B e f o r e:

Sack and Lynch , Circuit Judges, and Broderick, District Judge.**

Plaintiffs-appellants American Civil Liberties Union and American Civil Liberties Union Foundation, and New York Civil Liberties Union and New York Civil Liberties Union Foundation, appeal from a decision of the United States District Court for the Southern District of New York (William H. Pauley, III, Judge) granting defendants-appellees' motion to dismiss and denying plaintiffs-appellants' request for a preliminary injunction. The district court held that § 215 of the PATRIOT Act impliedly precludes judicial review; that plaintiffs-appellants' statutory claims regarding the scope of § 215 would in any event fail on the merits; and that § 215 does not violate the Fourth or First Amendments to the United States Constitution. We disagree in part, and hold that § 215 and the statutory scheme to which it relates do not preclude judicial review, and that the bulk telephone metadata program is not authorized by § 215. We therefore

_______________

** The Honorable Vernon S. Broderick, of the United States District Court for the Southern District of New York, sitting by designation.

2


VACATE the judgment of the district court and REMAND for further proceedings consistent with this opinion.

VACATED and REMANDED.

[...]


[At 4]

GERARD E. LYNCH, Circuit Judge:

This appeal concerns the legality of the bulk telephone metadata collection program (the “telephone metadata program”), under which the National Security Agency (“NSA”) collects in bulk “on an ongoing daily basis” the metadata associated with telephone calls made by and to Americans, and aggregates those metadata into a repository or data bank that can later be queried. Appellants

4


challenge the program on statutory and constitutional grounds. Because we find that the program exceeds the scope of what Congress has authorized, we vacate the decision below dismissing the complaint without reaching appellants’ constitutional arguments. We affirm the district court’s denial of appellants’ request for a preliminary injunction.

[snip]

At 98:

14‐42‐cv

ACLU, et al. v. Clapper, et al.

SACK, Circuit Judge, concurring:

I fully concur in Judge Lynch’s opinion for the Court. I nonetheless take the liberty of offering several additional observations about the import of today's decision.

Because our decision is based on our reading of a federal statute, not the Constitution, Congress can in effect overrule it. The enactment of a statute amending or supplanting the portion of section 215 that, until now, has been interpreted to authorize the NSA’s bulk collection program would likely do the job, subject, of course, to a subsequent constitutional challenge in the courts. Alternatively, Congress might simply terminate the program. Recent news dispatches indicate that it is considering doing just that.

[snip]

nolu chan  posted on  2015-05-22   15:35:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Deckard (#4) (Edited)

FBI admits no major cases cracked with Patriot Act snooping powers.

That's interesting.

Do you read this as saying that NO terrorists attacks have been foiled as a result of the Patriot Act since September 11, 2001?

Gatlin  posted on  2015-05-22   16:19:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: nolu chan (#6)

Because our decision is based on our reading of a federal statute, not the Constitution, Congress can in effect overrule it.

Under the leadership of John Boehner the Republican&Democrat party has already passed legislation in the House Of Representatives to do just that.

The bipartisan negotiations to destroy America continue.


The D&R terrorists hate us because we're free, to vote second party

"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul

Hondo68  posted on  2015-05-22   16:56:54 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Gatlin (#7)

I'm saying that the PATRIOT Act is anything but patriotic.

It is more about keeping tabs on Americans than stopping terrorists.

The stinking law was written and ready to go BEFORE 9/11.

They just needed a "catalyzing event...a New Pearl Harbor", well at least according to the neocon-infested Project For a New American Century cabal, which included Jeb Bush.

Less than 1% of Patriot Act’s “Sneak and Peek” Delayed Notice Warrants are Used against Terrorism

The Patriot Act as we have exhaustively documented is the key police state weapon the authorities have in their armory. The party line often heard from Neo-Cons in their attempts to defend the Patriot Act either circulate around the contention that the use of the Patriot Act has never been abused or that it isn't being used against American citizens. The Legislation's reach HAS gone beyond terrorism and it IS actively being used to target American citizens.

Remember, section 802 is specifically aimed at US citizens and announces any crime as "domestic terrorism". Citizens can be held without a trial as

"Enemy Combatants". Let us recap just some of the horror stories that misuse of the Patriot Act has produced, As you will see these are not isolated incidents, this is common practice.

Homeland Security Agents Visit Toy Store

When Homeland Security agents arrived at the Pufferbelly Toys store, the lead agent asked owner Stephanie Cox whether she carried a toy called the Magic Cube, which he said was an illegal copy of the Rubik's Cube, one of the most popular toys of all time. Invoking the Patriot Act, he told her to remove the Magic Cube from her shelves, and he watched to make sure she complied.

Patriot Act Being Used to Harass BlackBoxVoting.org website

Activist Bev Harris was told not to reveal to anyone the fact that she and her website were being investigated under the Patriot Act. It is illegal for a government agency to go in and demand the list of all the members of a group. And you can't investigate leaks to journalists by going in and grabbing the reporter's computer.

Secret Service Questions Students

Two students who were interrogated by the Secret Service following remarks the teenagers made about the President during a class discussion. The discussion was about the war in Iraq and while the exact wording is up for debate, the teacher didn't consider it mere criticism, but a direct threat and she called the Secret Service.

Boy investigated by FBI for researching paper on Chesapeake Bay Bridge

A 12-year-old kid at Boys' Latin researches a paper on the Bay Bridge, and suddenly the Joint Terrorist Task Force shows up in the headmaster's office.

Photographer Arrested "Under Patriot Act"

A Denver photographer was arrested while taking pictures in Denver, during Vice President Dick Cheney's visit to the city. Denver resident Mike Maginnis reports being physically assaulted by Denver police.

FBI says Patriot Act used in Vegas strip club corruption probe

The FBI used the USA Patriot Act to obtain financial information about key figures in a political corruption probe centered on striptease club owner Michael Galardi, an agent said.

Webmaster Sherman Austin, Jailed under PATRIOT Act

Political prisoner Sherman Austin, who made headlines last year after being targeted as one of the first casualties of the infamous USA PATRIOT Act, was released from the Federal Corrections Institute in Tucson and left Arizona July 12 to return to Los Angeles.

Using The Patriot Act To Target Patriots

The Patriot Act has been used to obtain search warrants against doctors and scientists who had been warning about the threat of bioterrorism in the U.S.

Patriot Act used to prosecute U.S. civilian

The CIA contract employee accused of abusing a prisoner in Afghanistan is being prosecuted under the Patriot Act in what legal experts are calling a surprising and to some, troubling application of the new anti-terrorism law.

Surprise! Controversial Patriot Act power now overwhelmingly used in drug investigations

“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts

Deckard  posted on  2015-05-22   17:07:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: A Pole (#5)


The D&R terrorists hate us because we're free, to vote second party

"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul

Hondo68  posted on  2015-05-22   17:13:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: hondo68 (#8)

Under the leadership of John Boehner the Republican&Democrat party has already passed legislation in the House Of Representatives to do just that.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d114:h.r.2048:

H.R.2048
Latest Title: Uniting and Strengthening America by Fulfilling Rights and Ensuring Effective Discipline Over Monitoring Act of 2015
Sponsor: Rep Sensenbrenner, F. James, Jr. [WI-5] (introduced 4/28/2015)
Cosponsors (27)
Related Bills: H.RES.255, H.R.1056, S.1123
Latest Major Action: 5/21/2015 Senate floor actions. Status: Motion to proceed to consideration of measure withdrawn in Senate.
House Reports: 114-109 Part 1

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-114hr2048pcs/pdf/BILLS-114hr2048pcs.pdf

Excerpt pp. 24-27

TITLE II--FISA PEN REGISTER AND TRAP AND TRACE DEVICE REFORM

SEC. 201. PROHIBITION ON BULK COLLECTION.

    (a) Prohibition- Section 402(c) (50 U.S.C. 1842(c)) is amended--

        (1) in paragraph (1), by striking `; and' and inserting a semicolon;

        (2) in paragraph (2), by striking the period at the end and inserting `;
and'; and

        (3) by adding at the end the following new paragraph:

        `(3) a specific selection term to be used as the basis for the use of
the pen register or trap and trace device.'.

    (b) Definition- Section 401 (50 U.S.C. 1841) is amended by adding at the end
the following new paragraph:

        `(4)(A) The term `specific selection term'--

            `(i) is a term that specifically identifies a person, account,
address, or personal device, or any other specific identifier; and

            `(ii) is used to limit, to the greatest extent reasonably
practicable, the scope of information sought, consistent with the purpose for
seeking the use of the pen register or trap and trace device.

        `(B) A specific selection term under subparagraph (A) does not include
an identifier that does not limit, to the greatest extent reasonably
practicable, the scope of information sought, consistent with the purpose for
seeking the use of the pen register or trap and trace device, such as an
identifier that--

            `(i) identifies an electronic communication service provider (as
that term is defined in section 701) or a provider of remote computing service
(as that term is defined in section 2711 of title 18, United States Code), when
not used as part of a specific identifier as described in subparagraph (A),
unless the provider is itself a subject of an authorized investigation for which
the specific selection term is used as the basis for the use; or

            `(ii) identifies a broad geographic region, including the United
States, a city, a county, a State, a zip code, or an area code, when not used as
part of a specific identifier as described in subparagraph (A).

        `(C) For purposes of subparagraph (A), the term `address' means a
physical address or electronic address, such as an electronic mail address or
temporarily assigned network address (including an Internet protocol address).

        `(D) Nothing in this paragraph shall be construed to preclude the use of
multiple terms or identifiers to meet the requirements of subparagraph (A).'.

SEC. 202. PRIVACY PROCEDURES.

    (a) In General- Section 402 (50 U.S.C. 1842) is amended by adding at the end
the following new subsection:

    `(h) Privacy Procedures- 

        `(1) IN GENERAL- The Attorney General shall ensure that appropriate
policies and procedures are in place to safeguard nonpublicly available
information concerning United States persons that is collected through the use
of a pen register or trap and trace device installed under this section. Such
policies and procedures shall, to the maximum extent practicable and consistent
with the need to protect national security, include privacy protections that
apply to the collection, retention, and use of information concerning United
States persons.

        `(2) RULE OF CONSTRUCTION- Nothing in this subsection limits the
authority of the court established under section 103(a) or of the Attorney
General to impose additional privacy or minimization procedures with regard to
the installation or use of a pen register or trap and trace device.'.

    (b) Emergency Authority- Section 403 (50 U.S.C. 1843) is amended by adding
at the end the following new subsection:

    `(d) Privacy Procedures- Information collected through the use of a pen
register or trap and trace device installed under this section shall be subject
to the policies and procedures required under section 402(h).'.

nolu chan  posted on  2015-05-22   17:27:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: hondo68 (#2)

She's an undocumented Republican.

Lol, good one!

Dead Culture Watch  posted on  2015-05-22   17:58:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: Deckard (#9)

You slap a link down, don’t discuss it….and then run away to copy and paste more links.

I want to stay on your link, which is:

FBI admits no major cases cracked with Patriot Act snooping powers.

Let’s look at that.

Back in 2009, Najibullah Zazi was discovered plotting some serious terrorist bombing. He was arrested after purchasing large quantities of chemicals from beauty supply stores in a plot to detonate Triacetone Triperoxide (TATP) bombs on the NYC subway. His plot was considered extremely serious.

Did the FBI use a special provision of the Patriot Act known as a "sneak and peek" to break into his car and swab it for chemicals, find his laptop in the car and mirror the hard drive and then use the evidence to arrest him and foil his plot? Or did the FBI just wait around until Zazi walked into their office and said: “Hey, boss, arrest me because I am a terrorist plotting bad things to kill Americans.”

What’s that yellow journalism article talking about when it says the: “FBI admits no major cases cracked with Patriot Act snooping powers?”

There are more such stories like the one with Zazi … 30 of them, the best I can count.

Gatlin  posted on  2015-05-22   19:16:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: Gatlin (#13) (Edited)

copy and paste more links.

That's the only way to cure your ignorance - posting facts.

You asked a question, I answered it.

yellow journalism article

Oh, the one with data from the FBI, the article that was in the Washington Times?

It's a sure sign of desperation from you when you label an article that you don't like "yellow journalism", much in the same way as when you try to refute an article with claims of "conspiracy theory"

Both tactics are designed to stifle debate.

“FBI admits no major cases cracked with Patriot Act snooping powers?”

That's what the FBI admits.

Back in 2009, Najibullah Zazi was discovered plotting some serious terrorist bombing. He was arrested after purchasing large quantities of chemicals from beauty supply stores in a plot to detonate Triacetone Triperoxide (TATP) bombs on the NYC subway. His plot was considered extremely serious.

Was it more serious than the deadly Rubik's cube knock-offs?

Again you miss the point.

Less than 1% of Patriot Act’s “Sneak and Peek” Delayed Notice Warrants are Used against Terrorism

This is pointless - more of the same defending unconstitutional laws and acts by the government that we have all come to expect from you and by extension defending Jeb Bush.

“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts

Deckard  posted on  2015-05-22   20:03:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: hondo68 (#8)

Under the leadership of John Boehner the Republican&Democrat party has already passed legislation in the House Of Representatives to do just that.

The bipartisan negotiations to destroy America continue

It's BUY-Partisan!

And the joke is on the American People. Look at those despicable creatures laughing at the plebes.

"Can you believe they still buy this crap? ROFLMAO"

Operation 40  posted on  2015-05-22   20:06:11 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: Deckard, hondo68 (#4)

FBI admits no major cases cracked with Patriot Act snooping powers

https://oig.justice.gov/reports/2015/o1505.pdf

A Review of the FBI's Use of Section 215 Orders: Assessment of Progress in Implementing Recommendations and Examination of Use in 2007 through 2009

Office of the Inspector General
U.S. Department of Justice
Oversight & Review Division 15-05
May 2015

At page 44:

B. Summary of Findings

Our review of the matters detailed in this section resulted in agents describing for us the FBI's use of Section 215 authority in a manner that was consistent with what we were told during our last two reviews. For example, agents and attorneys told us that Section 215 authority continues to be a valuable investigative tool. Agents said they relied on Section 215 authority when companies would not voluntarily produce the material sought by the FBI and when the material was not available through other investigative authorities. The agents we interviewed did not identify any major case developments that resulted from the records obtained in response to Section 215 orders, but told us the authority is valuable when it is the only means to obtain certain information. As described in this section, agents told us that the material produced pursuant to Section 215 orders was used to support other investigative requests, develop leads, and corroborate information obtained from other sources. As previously noted, we did not attempt to independently evaluate the value or use of the materials produced in response to the Section 215 orders.

At page 65: (under VII: CONCLUSION AND RECOMMENDATION)

We also selected several Section 215 applications from the 2007-2009 time period to illustrate various uses of Section 215 authority and to conduct a more detailed review of the types of material requested, the purposes of the requests, the materials produced, and the manner in which the materials were used. This examination resulted in agents describing for us the FBI's use of Section 215 authority in a manner that was consistent with what we were told during our last two reviews. For example, agents and attorneys told us that Section 215 authority continues to be a valuable investigative tool. Agents said they relied on Section 215 authority when companies would not voluntarily produce the material sought by the FBI and when the material was not available through other investigative authorities. The agents we interviewed did not identify any major case developments that resulted from the records obtained in response to Section 215 orders, but told us the authority is valuable when it is the only means to obtain certain information. Agents told us that the material produced pursuant to Section 215 orders was used to support other investigative requests, develop investigative leads, and corroborate other information. The agents' descriptions of these uses of the authority were consistent with what we were told during our last two reviews. As with our past reviews, we did not attempt to independently evaluate the value or use of the materials produced in response to the Section 215 orders.

nolu chan  posted on  2015-05-22   21:22:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: Gatlin, Deckard (#13)

Did the FBI use a special provision of the Patriot Act known as a "sneak and peek" to break into his car and swab it for chemicals, find his laptop in the car and mirror the hard drive and then use the evidence to arrest him and foil his plot? Or did the FBI just wait around until Zazi walked into their office and said: “Hey, boss, arrest me because I am a terrorist plotting bad things to kill Americans.”

Or did they get their information from the Brits?

There have been reports contesting the official NSA story of its alleged achievement.

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/did-the-nsa-stop-najibullah-zazi

Did the NSA stop Najibullah Zazi?

By Steve Benen
The Rachel Maddow Show
06/11/13 11:27 AM—UPDATED 10/31/13 02:59 PM

[excerpt]

The plot had progressed to a rather dangerous point – this was not just an aspirational goal – before Zazi was taken into custody. From there, the system worked flawlessly – Zazi cooperated with law enforcement; co-conspirators were caught; and many lives were saved. In the post-9/11 era, this was as big a counter-terrorism victory as any we’ve seen in the United States, even if most Americans have no idea it happened.

Why am I bringing this up now? Because as Dan Amira explained, unnamed officials brought this up last week.

Late last week, unnamed sources told CBS News, Reuters, and the New York Times that the NSA’s PRISM had helped to disrupt Najibullah Zazi’s plot to bomb New York’s subways in 2009. Thanks to PRISM, authorities were monitoring an e-mail address known to belong to a member of Al Qaeda. Zazi e-mailed that address and unwittingly revealed himself and his plans. He was arrested and now faces life in prison. Huzzah.

But it wasn’t long before the credibility of this narrative was questioned.

The Associated Press’ Adam Goldman explained that the NSA program was very likely irrelevant – British intelligence had already identified an al Qaeda email address, and shared that information with U.S. officials. Zazi did, in fact, send an urgent message to that address, which ultimately led to his arrest before he could successfully murder a lot of people.

So, what does this have to do with NSA surveillance, metadata, and PRISM? Given what we know, nothing.

But maybe, the argument goes, British intelligence learned of the al Qaeda email address in the first place thanks NSA programs. Right? No, as it turns out, the address was found on a laptop when a different terrorist was captured in 2009.

It appears, then, that conventional intelligence gathering saved the day – though that’s not what the public heard over the weekend.

On the Sunday shows, Senate Intelligence Committee Chair Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) and House Intelligence Committee Chair Mike Rogers (R-Mich.) both said that when it came to the Zazi case, the NSA programs in question were “exactly [what] was used.”

It is, of course, possible that Feinstein and Rogers know details of the Zazi case that are highly relevant, and that the public is not aware of. But at a minimum, using this as an example to bolster the case in support of NSA surveillance seems dubious.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jun/12/nsa-surveillance-data-terror-attack

Ed Pilkington in New York and Nicholas Watt in London
The Guardian (UK)
Wednesday 12 June 2013 10.51 EDT

NSA surveillance played little role in foiling terror plots, experts say

Obama administration says NSA data helped make arrests in two important cases – but critics say that simply isn't true

Lawyers and intelligence experts with direct knowledge of two intercepted terrorist plots that the Obama administration says confirm the value of the NSA's vast data-mining activities have questioned whether the surveillance sweeps played a significant role, if any, in foiling the attacks.

The defence of the controversial data collection operations, highlighted in a series of Guardian disclosures over the past week, has been led by Dianne Feinstein, chairwoman of the Senate intelligence committee, and her equivalent in the House, Mike Rogers. The two politicians have attempted to justify the NSA's use of vast data sweeps such as Prism and Boundless Informant by pointing to the arrests and convictions of would-be New York subway bomber Najibullah Zazi in 2009 and David Headley, who is serving a 35-year prison sentence for his role in the 2008 Mumbai attacks.

Rogers told ABC's This Week that the NSA's bulk monitoring of phone calls and internet contacts was central to intercepting the plotters. "I can tell you, in the Zazi case in New York, it's exactly the programme that was used," he said.

A similar point was made in anonymous briefings by administration officials to the New York Times and Reuters.

But court documents lodged in the US and UK, as well as interviews with involved parties, suggest that data-mining through Prism and other NSA programmes played a relatively minor role in the interception of the two plots. Conventional surveillance techniques, in both cases including old-fashioned tip-offs from intelligence services in Britain, appear to have initiated the investigations.

[...]

Michael Dowling, a Denver-based attorney who acted as Zazi's defence counsel, said the full picture remained unclear as Zazi pleaded guilty before all details of the investigation were made public. But the lawyer said he was sceptical that mass data sweeps could explain what led law enforcement to Zazi.

"The government says that it does not monitor content of these communications in its data collection. So I find it hard to believe that this would have uncovered Zazi's contacts with a known terrorist in Pakistan," Dowling said.

Further scepticism has been expressed by David Davis, a former British foreign office minister who described the citing of the Zazi case as an example of the merits of data-mining as "misleading" and "an illusion". Davis pointed out that Operation Pathway was prematurely aborted in April 2009 after Bob Quick, then the UK's most senior counter-terrorism police officer, was pictured walking into Downing Street with top secret documents containing details of the operation in full view of cameras.

The collapse of the operation, and arrests of suspects that hurriedly followed, came five months before Zazi was arrested in September 2009. "That was the operation that led to the initial data links to Zazi – they put the clues in the database which gave them the connections," Davis said.

[snip]

nolu chan  posted on  2015-05-22   21:24:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: nolu chan (#17)

So, it appears that Gatlin is wrong again.

Too bad we can't take his act to Vegas to bet on.

Dead Culture Watch  posted on  2015-05-22   21:37:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: nolu chan, Dead Culture Watch, Gatlin, Deckard, Rachel Maddow (#17)

The Rachel Maddow Show

So Rachel Maddow lied to Gatlin? Say it ain't so!


The D&R terrorists hate us because we're free, to vote second party

"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul

Hondo68  posted on  2015-05-22   22:38:34 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: nolu chan (#17)

Or did they get their information from the Brits?

Possible and actually looks that way, but the NSA role (if any) is not explained anywhere. I didn’t expect it to be. Also, the FBI was in England at the same time working with M15/M16 on a joint task force.

THE BROOKINGS INSTITUTION
SAUL/ZILKHA ROOMS

NSA SURVEILLANCE PROGRAM AND THE
NAJIBULLAH ZAZI TERRORIST THREAT

Washington, D.C.
Thursday, October 10, 2013

MATT APUZZO, Investigative Reporter, The Associated Press, seems to know the most about this. He spent a lot of time in discovery and wrote a book about it.

Transcript:
http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/events/2013/10/10-nsa- zazi/20131010_nsa_surveillance_programs_transcript.pdf

Audio:
http://www.brookings.edu/events/2013/10/10-nsa-surveillance-programs- najibullah-zazi-

From the Transcript:

[…]

As it turns out, months earlier, completely unrelated to this there was an FBI MI5/MI6 operation going on in England called “Operation Pathway” in which they took down a bunch of guys there who were interacting with Al-Qaeda. They took them down pre-plot.

Operation Pathway is infamous or famous for one of the cabinet secretaries in London is photographed walking into a cabinet briefing, and it says Operation Pathway on the documents, like, as he’s walking in, and it has the names of everybody that’s going to get arrested, and it’s on the photo as he’s walking in, so they had to take down the plot early.

But what happened is in the course of conducting the searches on that computer, the Brits were actually able to identify this address sanapectani@yahoo.com which is the same go-between, the same intermediary that Zazi was e-mailing. So, for the past five months GCHQ, NSA, at this point one and the same, are up on this Yahoo 11 NSA-2013/10/10 ANDERSON COURT REPORTING 706 Duke Street, Suite 100 Alexandria, VA 22314 Phone (703) 519-7180 Fax (703) 519-7190 e-mail address. It’s in Pakistan, and then when Zazi sent his e-mail saying the marriage is ready, I mean, come on, 9/11 was the big wedding, right? I mean, so it didn’t take -- this was not a gigantic analytical leap.

And at that point it was, wait a minute. IP address in Colorado? There was this whole, you know, NSA gave it to CIA, and CIA gave it to FBI, and FBI sort of passed it out through the Joint Terrorist Task Force, but there was a lot of confusion. I mean, when you get into this book, like, wait a minute. Like, are you sure that this isn’t, like, routed through somewhere? I mean, IP addresses can get routed. This doesn’t make any sense. Aurora, Colorado? This guy’s not on anybody’s radar screen. And so, that’s the moment. I mean, at that point that’s the moment of when they realize, I think, there’s a guy in the United States making contact with Al-Qaeda.

NSA Finally Reveals How PRISM Works, But It's Nothing New
How the feds caught Najibullah Zazi, pieced together 9/11 terror plot
Coloradan Zazi's coded e- mail started agencies plan to stop N.Y. subway attack
PRISM Stopped Najibullah Zazi From Blowing Up Backpacks in the Subway
U.S. Internet spying foiled plot to attack NY subways – sources
Breitbart contested the stories

Gatlin  posted on  2015-05-22   23:41:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: Gatlin (#20)

THE BROOKINGS INSTITUTION SAUL/ZILKHA ROOMS

NSA SURVEILLANCE PROGRAM AND THE NAJIBULLAH ZAZI TERRORIST THREAT

Washington, D.C. Thursday, October 10, 2013

I have copies of the Najibullah Zazi Superseding Indictment and Documents 1 through 18 from the case captioned United States v. John Doe, EDNY 09-663 (RJD) where "John Doe" was really Amanullah ZAZI (if that is really his name). It makes for some interesting reading if the Zazi's are considered the ringleaders of the most serious threat in a decade.

http://www.investigativeproject.org/documents/case_docs/1187.pdf

Najibullah Zazi Superseding Indictment

http://www.investigativeproject.org/documents/case_docs/2085.pdf

Amanullah Zazi Documents

Doc 2 of 7 Jan 2010 states that this case "is properly related to United States v. Najibullah Zazi, Criminal Docket No. 09-663 (RJD).

It also states,

On September 23, 2009, a grand jury in the Eastern District of New York returned an indictment charging Najibu1lah Zaziwith conspiracy to use weapons of mass destruction, in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 2332a(a) (2). The Najibullah Zazi indictment stemmed from a federal investigation concerning an international and domestic terrorism plot to detonate improvised explosive devices within the United States.

Amanullah Zazi has admitted to facilitating the entrance of Najibullah Zazi and others into an al-Qaeda training camp in the Waziristan region of Pakistan in September 2008. Amanullah Zazi has also admitted that he helped destroy evidence of Najibullah Zazi's bomb-making activities in Denver, Colorado. Amanullah Zazi is prepared to plead guilty to aiding and abetting Najibullah Zazi and others in the receipt of military-type training from al-Qaeda, in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 2339D(a), and conspiracy to obstruct justice, in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 1512(k). The criminal conduct of Najibullah Zazi, including the conspiracy to use weapons of mass destruction, is central to the case against Amanullah Zazi. Indeed, evidence of the same specific conduct would be introduced at the trials of Najibullah Zazi and Amanullah Zazi. Relation is therefore appropriate.

Doc 4-1 dated 7 Jan 2010, filed 8 Jan 2010 states,

Dear Judge Dearie:

The government writes to inform the Court that the parties in the above-captioned case expect the defendant Amanullah Zazi to waive indictment and plead guilty to an information charging him with aiding and abetting others in receiving military-type training from al-Qaeda, in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 2339D(a) , and conspiracy to obstruct justice, in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 1512(k). Copies of the proposed information and cooperation agreement will be provided to the Court under separate cover.

Document 5 is the Criminal Information filed on 8 Jan 2010 which included two counts,

COUNT ONE
(Receiving Military-Type Training from
a Foreign Terrorist Organization)

In or about September 2008, within the extraterritorial jurisdiction of the United States, the defendant AMANULLAH ZAZI did knowingly and intentionally aid and abet others in receiving military-type training, as defined in 18 U.S.C. § 2339D(c) (1), from and on behalf of a foreign terrorist organization, to wit: Al Qaeda, which has been designated by the Secretary of State as a foreign terrorist organization since October 1999, pursuant to Section 219(a) (1) of the Immigration and Nationality Act.

(Title 18, United States Code, Sections 2339D(a) , 2339D(b) (3), 2 and 3551 et seq.)

COUNT TWO
(Conspiracy to Obstruct Justice)

In or about September 2009, within the Eastern District of New York, the District of Colorado and elsewhere, the defendant AMANULLAH ZAZI, together with others, did knowingly and intentionally conspire to corruptly alter, destroy, mutilate and conceal objects, to wit: glasses, masks, liquid chemicals and containers, with the intent to impair the objects' integrity and availability for use in an official proceeding, to wit: a federal grand jury investigation into federal crimes of terrorism, and otherwise obstruct, influence· and impede that proceeding, in violation of Title 18, United States Code, Section 1512(c).

(Title 18, United States Code, 1512(k) and 3551 et seq.)

Document 6 filed 13 Dec 2010 states,

The government respectfully requests that the Court revoke the defendant's pre-trial release pending his acceptance into the witness protection program. By way of background, the defendant pleaded guilty pursuant to a cooperation agreement before Your Honor in a sealed courtroom on January 8, 2010, to an information that charged him with aiding and abetting Najibullah Zazi and others in receiving military-type training from al-Qaeda, in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 2339D(a) , and conspiring to obstruct justice, in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 1512(k). At the time of his guilty plea, Your Honor released the defendant on his own recognizance subject to GPS monitoring and supervision by the Federal Bureau of Investigation ("FBI") and pre-trial services, among other conditions.

On Friday, December 10, 2010, the FBI was required to move the defendant from the FBI-sponsored residence he had been staying at, out of concerns for the defendant's safety and to accommodate demands made by the property management company to evict the defendant from the property based of the defendant's violations of the management company's rules. On such short notice, the FBI was unable to locate an alternate living arrangement for the defendant that would allow pre-trial services to monitor the defendant in a way that was consistent with Your Honor's order dated January 8, 2010. As a result, the FBI transported the defendant to the Metropolitan Detention Center ("MDC") where he is currently housed.

The defendant's application to the witness protection program is complete, pending a resolution of his immigration status by Immigration and Customs Enforcement ("ICE"). The government anticipates that the defendant's immigration status will be resolved by ICE shortly. The government requests that Your Honor revoke the terms of the defendant's pre-trial release so that the defendant may be housed at the MDC until he is admitted into the witness protection program. The government also requests that the Court set this matter down for a status conference in approximately one week.

[emphasis added]

Document 7-1, filed 20 Jan 2011 states,

The defendant has admitted to facilitating the entry of Najibullah Zazi, Zarein Ahmedzay and Adis Medunjanin into an al-Qaeda training camp in the Waziristan region of Pakistan in September 2008. The defendant has also admitted that he helped destroy evidence of Najibullah Zazi's bomb-making activities in Denver, Colorado, after learning that FBI agents were investigating Zazi's activities. In addition, the defendant has provided the government with information concerning individuals who remain the subject of ongoing criminal and intelligence investigations.

The defendant has petitioned to enter the united States Marshals Service ("USMS") Witness Security Program. The USMS will not accept the defendant into the program. until his immigration status is resolved. The defendant obtained entry into the United States in April 2009 under fraudulent pretenses by claiming to be the biological child of Mohammad Wali Zazi (a naturalized U.S. citizen) when in fact, he was not. To resolve the defendant's status, the government requests that the Court enter the proposed Judicial Order of Removal, which will take effect after the defendant completes any term of incarceration imposed by the Court at sentencing. Immigration and Customs Enforcement concurs with this request.

Document 9, filed 25 Jan 2011 states,

Upon consideration of the joint motion of the United States of America and the defendant AMANULLAH ZAZI, filed under seal, for an Order for Judicial Removal; upon the Factual Allegations in Support of Judicial Removal, the Plea Statement in Support of Judicial Removal, and upon all prior proceedings and submissions in this matter the Court finds:

1. The defendant is not a citizen or national of the United States.

2. The defendant is a native and citizen of Afghanistan.

3. The defendant was admitted to the United States on or about April 16, 2009 as an immediate relative beneficiary - "IR2" - child of naturalized U.S. citizen Mohammed Wali Zazi.

4. The defendant is not the child of Mohammed Wali Zazi.

[...]

WHEREFORE, IT IS HEREBY ORDERED, pursuant to section 238(c) of the INA, 8 U.S.C. § 1228(c), that promptly upon his sentencing, an order of removal from the United States to Afghanistan is entered against the defendant.

SO ORDERED.

Document 11 filed 18 Apr 2011 states,

Dear Judge Dearie:

The government writes to inform the Court that the United States Marshals Service ("USMS") has notified the Office that it has accepted the defendant Amanullah Zazi into the witness security program (the "program") and is prepared to take custody of the defendant and move him into the program on April 19, 2011. The parties will appear before Your Honor on April 19, 2011 at 10:00 a.m. to request the defendant's release on his own recognizance, with the condition that he abide by the terms of the program.

[...]

On January 21, 2011, the defendant appeared before Your Honor to resolve his immigration status, which was a prerequisite to being accepted into the program.1 At that appearance, the Court entered an order which closed the courtroom to the public and sealed the transcript of the proceeding. The government requests that the Court enter a similar order now that the defendant is about to enter the program.

[...]

1 The Court entered an Order of Judicial Removal which takes effect upon the defendant's sentencing.

Document 14, dated 5 Feb 2010, filed 17 Feb 2011, states,

Dear Judge Gold:

The government respectfully requests that the Court modify the conditions of pre-trial release for the cooperating defendant in the above-captioned sealed case. At present, the defendant's travel is restricted to the District of New Jersey as directed by the Federal Bureau of Investigation ("FBI"). The government requests that the Court strike this condition and add a new travel restriction which limits the defendant's travel to Suffolk County, as directed by the FBI. The defense and pretrial services are aware of this request and have no objection.

Suffolk County is the east end of Long Island, NY. Perhaps they moved him to the Hamptons.

Document 18, filed 8 Jan 2010, is the ORDER SETTING CONDITIONS OF RELEASE OR BOND for illegal alien Afghan citizen Amanullah Zazi, arrested and charged in what Bruce Reidel, Senior Fellow and Director, The Intelligence Project, the Brookings Institution, described thusly,

The Brookings Intelligence Project likes to focus on intelligence successes and try to explain why intelligence can be successful, and I’m glad to say today that we are looking at one of the most important terrorists plots planned against the United States in the last decade, perhaps the single-most important Al-Qaeda plot planned against the United States in the last decade involving the use of American citizens.

So, Document 18 states,

RELEASE ORDER

It is hereby ORDERED that the above-named defendant be released as follows, subject to the Standard Conditions of Bond on the reverse and;

Upon Personal Recognizance Bond on his/her promise to appear at all scheduled proceedings as required

[...]

Additional Conditions of Release

[...]

6. Other Conditions: GPS Monitoring — FBI direction.

What's wrong with this picture?

At page 20 of the Brookings transcript with Bruce Reidel and Matt Apuzzo, is found this exchange,

MR. RIEDEL: I’m going to open it up to the audience in a minute. In the end, they confess. They break down. They’re all in prison. Would the bomb have worked? Do we have reason to believe that they had put together a working device?

MR. APUZZO: They had put together something that would blow up. This thing came down before they could finish the bomb. I mean, they had gone -- Zazi had come to New York, and his plan was to buy the backpacks and then assemble it there. They had a glass container of TATP. Now, I don’t have any idea how you drive across the country at 90 miles an hour with that thing in your trunk. I mean, testimony at trial came out that when they ultimately dumped it down the toilet that one of the guys lit -- to try to get the residue off the bowl of the toilet and (POP noise). So, I mean, something was there that was going to blow up, and he had made it several times. He’d done several test batches. I don’t have any -- the government says it was going to blow up. Zazi says it was going to blow up. Rashid Rauf thought it was going to blow up. I mean, I’m inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt on that one.

They're all in prison? Really?

This is the evidence of the existence of a bomb?

In the SUPERSEDING INFORMATION filed against Najibullah Zazi, the charges make an interesting read,

COUNT ONE
(Conspiracy To Use Weapons Of Mass Destruction)

1. In or about and between September 2008 and September 2009, both dates being approximate and inclusive, within the Eastern District of New York and elsewhere, the defendant NAJIBULLAH ZAZI, also known as "Salahuddin," together with others, did knowingly and intentionally and without lawful authority conspire to use one or more weapons of mass destruction, to wit: explosive bombs and other similar explosive devices, against persons and property within the United States, and in furtherance of the offense: (1) facilities of interstate and foreign commerce, to wit: email and the internet, were used, (2) one or more perpetrators, to wit: the defendant NAJIBULLAH ZAZI and others, traveled in interstate and foreign commerce, and (3) the offense and the results of the offense would have affected interstate and foreign commerce.

(Title 18, United States Code, Sections 2332a(a) (2) and 3551 et seq.)

COUNT TWO
(Conspiracy To Commit Murder In A Foreign Country)

2. In or about and between January 2008 and September 2008, both dates being approximate and inclusive, within the Eastern District of New York and elsewhere within the jurisdiction of the United States, the defendant NAJIBULLAH ZAZI, also known as "Salahuddin," together with others, did knowingly and intentionally conspire to commit one or more acts outside of the United States that would constitute the offense of murder if committed in the special maritime and territorial jurisdiction of the United States, and one or more of the conspirators did commit an act within the jurisdiction of the United States to effect an object of the conspiracy.

3. In furtherance of the conspiracy and to effect its objectives, the defendant NAJIBULLAH ZAZI, together with others, knowingly committed and caused to be committed, among others, the following:

OVERT ACT

a. On or about August 28, 2008, the defendant NAJIBULLAH ZAZI, together with others, boarded a flight at Newark Liberty International Airport to fly from Newark, New Jersey to Doha, Qatar and Peshawar, Pakistan.

(Title 18, United States Code, Sections 956(a) (1), 956 (a) (2) ( A) and 3551 et seq.)

COUNT THREE
(Providing Material Support
To A Foreign Terrorist Organization)

4. In or about and between September 2008 and September 2009, both dates being approximate and inclusive, within the Eastern District of New York and elsewhere, the defendant NAJIBULLAH ZAZI, also known as "Salahuddin," together with others, did knowingly and intentionally provide material support and resources, as defined in 18 U.S.C. § 2339A(b), including currency, training, communications equipment and personnel, to a foreign terrorist organization, to wit: al-Qaeda, which has been designated by the Secretary of State as a foreign terrorist organization since 1999, pursuant to Section 219 of the Immigration and Nationality Act.

(Title 18, United States Code, Sections 2339B(a) (1), 2339B (d) (1) (A), 2339B (d) (1) (D), 2339B (d) (1) (E), 2 and 3551 et seq.)

Note that there is an alleged conspiracy to use bombs or explosives. This charge has no requirement for the physical existence of any bomb. The alleged crime would be complete when they boarded the plane in Newark, NJ. There is no allegation of possession of a bomb, or the making of a bomb.

Going to the Brookings transcript at 4-6, Mr. Apuzzo speaking,

And he and two friends decided that they were going to go and fight with the Taliban, and they were going to go out to Afghanistan, and they were going to join up with the Taliban Brigade and one of these guys decides -- he’s Adis Medunjanin who’s of Bosnian descent. He says, “I’m going to be a Taliban general.

And these delusions of grandeur, right? So, I’m going to be a Taliban general. So, how do you get with the Taliban? You get on an airplane. His dad drove -- their dad drove them to the airport, and they flew to Pakistan, and they went to visit Zazi’s family in Peshawar, and they kind of just made their way out into the frontier, kind of these accidental tourists. Kind of being, like, hey, do you know how I could get with the Taliban? Does anybody know how I can get with the Taliban?

And at this moment, the United States was just getting the idea that you didn’t need some -- there wasn’t some super-special pipeline that terrorists groups had to get you in. They were just coming to grips with the idea that you could actually do this. You could just sort of end up in the frontier and finagle your way into a terrorist group. And as it happened, Zazi and his buddies fell into Al-Qaeda. Literally, they fell into Al-Qaeda, and Al-Qaeda said: you don’t want to go with the Taliban. I mean, come on, we’ve got plenty of guys who can go take artillery shells for our cause.

You guys have American passports, right? I mean, you have stamps to get into the United States. You’re not on any lists. You got here somehow. And they took them out to a terrorist camp, and we have these scenes in the book of how you get to a terrorist camp where they sort of drive you around, you don’t know where you’re going, and they move you to another car, and they leave you at a house, and you think that you’re sort of left for dead. And then another car shows up, and they move you somewhere else.

He ends up out near Miramshaw in an Al-Qaeda sort of walled training camp. I mean it’s literally one of those training camps. You see the B-roll videos. The guy’s doing the monkey bars. And they end up getting trained by some of Al-Qaeda’s top guys. The most important is the head of external operations, Saleh al-Somali, basically the job Khalid Sheikh Mohammed had at one point. Bin Laden’s one of his most trusted guys. Ends up training these guys on how to make bombs and how to do small weapons and there’s a long period of time there where these guys still want to go and fight. They do not want to go off and carry off a mission.

This idea that they’re going to become suicide bombers, they’re like we didn’t sign up for this, and there’s like a lot of back and forth. And they’re like can we even say no? Can you say no to Al-Qaeda? Thanks, but no thanks? We appreciate your time here. Thank you for the tea, but, you know, we’ve decided against your cause.

But ultimately they are persuaded to become suicide bombers, which is a really -- I mean, that in and of itself is just an incredible thing; that three guys who did not want to do that were persuaded to do it, and the moment for Zazi (and this is literally just a confluence of events)—he happens to be out in Miramshaw in the tribal areas at a time when literally the United States drone policy is changing, and we’re pushing deeper into Pakistan, and we’ve made a decision to step up strikes. And it was a turning point in the drone war, and it literally just so happened that’s the month that Zazi was there and became convinced this is a fight I need to take. This is a fight I need to take up.

So, it’s this sort of -- the backdrop to this is how did these guys -- how do you become an Al-Qaeda suicide bomber when a week earlier you were in a coffee cart in Queens thinking that you didn’t want to be a suicide bomber?

A week earlier they entertained no thoughts about joining al Qaeda or becoming suicide bombers. The whole narrative is very seriously suspicious.

Afghan citizen Amanullah Zazi (if that is even his real name), allegedly entered the U.S. on or about April 16, 2009 as a supposed son of Mohammed Wali Zazi, which would have made him a supposed brother or half-brother of Najibullah Zazi. He supposedly "admitted to facilitating the entrance of Najibullah Zazi and others into an al-Qaeda training camp in the Waziristan region of Pakistan in September 2008."

It could be a case of two U.S. Zazis, and one Afghan "Zazi" playing roles as assets in a U.S. intelligence operation to infiltrate al Qaeda. That would help explain the Afghan "Zazi" gaining 2009 entry into the U.S. as the son of Mohammed Wali Zazi. It would help explain how the Afghan "Zazi" was released on his own recognizance. It helps explain entry into the witness protection program. It helps explain why there is no evidence of a bomb, nor any possession charge of a bomb, or bomb making materials. It makes real easy the identification of its own assets by U.S. intelligence. That's speculation, but the official story is hinky at best.

When the mass data collection came under serious attack, this sealed case was dragged out as an example of the success of the program. Some of the files have become unsealed as in the case of Amanullah Zazi.

Amanullah Zazi was indicted on September 23, 2009. On Friday, December 13, 2012, Amanullah Zazi was sentenced to 40 months (3 years, 4 months).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammed_Wali_Zazi

Mohammed Wali Zazi "was convicted in July 2011 of destroying evidence and lying to investigators to cover up his son's plot. As of November 2011, he was free on bail pending sentencing on December 2011, in which he faces up to 40 years in prison."

For testimony of Najibullah Zazi under cross-examination on February 15, 2015, see Acting as His Own Attorney, Defendant in Bomb Case Cross-Examines a Witness by Stephanie Clifford, Feb. 18, 2015 in the New York Times. It is interesting reading but not a source I can quote.

It appears that none of the Zazi's has spent a day in prison. Illegal alien Afghan citizen Amanullah Zazi spent a few days in the Manhattan Detention Center (the city lockup, aka the tombs, when a landlord evicted him from his FBI sponsored residence. He was quickly relocated to another residence.

nolu chan  posted on  2015-05-26   18:28:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: nolu chan, Gatlin, *Neo-Lib Chickenhawk Wars* (#21) (Edited)

3. The defendant was admitted to the United States on or about April 16, 2009 as an immediate relative beneficiary - "IR2" - child of naturalized U.S. citizen Mohammed Wali Zazi.

4. The defendant is not the child of Mohammed Wali Zazi.


It could be a case of two U.S. Zazis, and one Afghan "Zazi" playing roles as assets in a U.S. intelligence operation to infiltrate al Qaeda. That would help explain the Afghan "Zazi" gaining 2009 entry into the U.S. as the son of Mohammed Wali Zazi. It would help explain how the Afghan "Zazi" was released on his own recognizance. It helps explain entry into the witness protection program. It helps explain why there is no evidence of a bomb, nor any possession charge of a bomb, or bomb making materials. It makes real easy the identification of its own assets by U.S. intelligence.

Wonder if his real father is John McCain, or Gatlin?

False flag homegrown terrorists, trained and equipped at Hillary & McCain's al-CIA-da mosque.

There's huge money to be made by keeping fear alive. It's the neocon way.


And now.... a moment of fear-mongering for profit.


The D&R terrorists hate us because we're free, to vote second party

"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul

Hondo68  posted on  2015-05-26   19:52:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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