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Title: Alan Dershowitz Rips Charges Against Baltimore Cops: 'Sad Day for Justice'
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URL Source: http://www.mediaite.com/tv/alan-der ... more-cops-sad-day-for-justice/
Published: May 1, 2015
Author: Mediate
Post Date: 2015-05-01 20:15:17 by Vinny
Keywords: None
Views: 32193
Comments: 115
Dershowitz lamented that “this is a very sad day for justice” and told Steve Malzberg that Mosby acted out of a “desire to prevent riots.” It will be “virtually impossible,” he predicted, for the six officers involved to get a fair trial. And as for murder charges, Dershowitz said there’s “no plausible, hypothetical, conceivable case for murder” and “this is a show trial.” He predicted that Mosby might get removed as prosecutor and Baltimore citizens may get upset if and/or when they “move to a place with a different demographic.” He concluded that it’s “unlikely they’ll get any convictions in this case” and if they do they’ll likely “be reversed on appeal.” Watch the video below, via Newsmax TV: [image via screengrab] – – 
Alan Dershowitz really went after Baltimore State’s Attorney Marilyn Mosby today for charging the six cops involved in the death of Freddie Gray, saying it was entirely based on politics and “crowd control.”
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Sorry haters, you lose.
I'm sure they will get some low level convictions and some high dollar civil judgements against them. There is no denying that officers arrested without probable cause... and then violated policy by not seat belting this turd inside the transport vehicle... and then dragged their feet getting him medical attention for his self inflicted injuries. All six are fuked... and so will Mosby's career after the DA doesn't hit the home run that racist set up today.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
They will get more than that if there is no change in venue a la O.J.
потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
A predicate felon, known to the department, loitering in an area known for drug sales flees from cops when approached = probable cause to stop & question. He fled & resisted = a good arrest.
Amen.
http://www.tedcruz.org
Toxicology report shows evidence of heroin and marijuana, further, he was observed making a drug sale.
It wasn't a good arrest. Generally, flight from the police alone does not support "PC" or reasonable suspicion to run after or chase a subject on foot. I do realize there are several case laws that allow officers to instantly have "reasonable suspicion" by flight alone IF it's in a high crime area by a known criminal... I get that. But, they gave chase and in the end... found nothing but a legal pocket knife. To keep him in custody, what's the "good arrest" based on? I won't argue the chase... but I'll argue the arrest after the chase.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
Show me a case were possession IN THE BLOODSTREAM is chargeable for possession. One case where a conviction was upheld... even after appeal. Secondly, a drug deal without evidence? Where's the other half of the transaction? Without the other half and no drugs found on the deceased... where's the PC? Kinda thin, isn't it? Sounds like the bogus charge of a switchblade was the best they had.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
That's gonna help get a acquittal on the murder charge and manslaughter charges... as it will help jurors believe he was high enough to inflict his own injuries... but it doesn't lend credibility to support the original charge for arrest. It's simple.... Police gave chase via a hunch. Once apprehended, they had shit. They were pissed... arrested on the knife and probably planned on a resisting charge because he ran. They should have saved face and let him go. A shitbag as bad as he was will always give more chances in the future for solid arrests.... so why risk a thin charge or trumped up charge?
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
He was observed in what was believed a drug sale.
Ok... and how do you get a conviction for an actual "drug sale" without any evidence the product sold was drugs or the other half of the sale? I've never seen an arrest based on... well I saw a hand to hand transaction... and I THINK it was drugs. lol Or was it alleged because they had nothing on the subject after they apprehended?
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
Here is his record: http://www.tedcruz.org
No evidence? Happens all the time. The exchange is made for cash, with the cash being the evidence. Surely you've come across a dealer selling one bundle and calling it a day? At any rate it's reasonable for the officers to have wanted to speak to him and his fleeing raised it to probable cause. Cop 101 here. And why toss conviction into this? We're discussing an arrest and transport. And if you're telling me as an officer you wouldn't arrest someone after witnessing an exchange of decks of heroin (packaged in distinct glassine bags) for cash I'd be left scratching my head.
Supposedly, they do have the switchblade as evidence. The false arrest is apparently due to a police report on the arrest that they initially went after the perp solely because he averted his eyes from the police. That seems to be the entire basis for the D.A. to allege false arrest, not that the perp didn't have a switchblade.
I've seen his record. His record doesn't lend credibility to the arrest itself. Yes... he's a career shitbag. That's due to a failure of the courts and corrections part of the criminal justice system.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
Then the States Attorney is gonna look pretty stupid. She stated very clearly that the knife he had was legal.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
Supposedly, they do have the switchblade as evidence. "The knife was not a switchblade, and it is lawful," Mosby said Friday Edit: GI, just saw your post....you beat me to it.
That seems to be the entire basis for the D.A. to allege false arrest, not that the perp didn't have a switchblade. Negative. Listen to the States Attorney from 10:30 this morning. She made it clear that the knife was legal and the arrest was unsubstantiated.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
Correct. I see someone was paying attention.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
Sure I have... but I always have the marked cash... or the drug product sold for evidence. They have none of that.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
Why arrest and transport without an even close to a winnable case? I don't even consider "I saw a drug sale"... and after the stop and frisk I have no drug money, no drug evidence or the other half of the sale. That's not even PC. That's bullshit and you know it. "I saw a drug sale" is enough for the stop and frisk. Once they have nothing to substantiate WHAT I THINK I SAW... let him GO.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
I’m thinking the knife may have been a one-hand opening knife….an assisted opening mechanism for easy single handed opening. Edit: I just found this: "The knife was recovered, the report says, and "found to be a spring-assisted, one hand operated knife." Edit #2: The Federal Switchblade Act was amended in 2009 to exempt one-handed openers.
I’m thinking the knife may have been a one-hand opening knife….an assisted opening mechanism for easy single handed opening. Edit: I just found this: "The knife was recovered, the report says, and "found to be a spring-assisted, one hand operated knife." Yes... and earlier today I reviewed that states criminal law. The knife was legal unless it classified as a "gravity knife" or switchblade. I don't think they are guilty of murder, manslaughter or even assault... but I do feel the arrest was bad, they failed to get him medical attention in a reasonable time... and they violated policy by not seat belting his ass into that paddy wagon. They are screwed. lol
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
So before making an arrest you pause and ponder the odds of a positive jury verdict? Bang, bang, you're dead.
It looks like this is the case....thus far. Some "lawyers" say it should be "civil" and not "criminal"....what's your opinion?
How do u let him go after he resisted? That's a separate crime.
Bang, bang, you're dead. So much drama. You are almost as bad as Deckard. Officers had plenty of time (and should look at the facts of their investigation)... after he's apprehended on PC... but after they realize their suspicions aren't supported by squat... Let him go. Why make a mistake worse by making it bigger... unless you hurt him putting him in custody and you are worried about a LIABILTY lawsuit without an arrestable offense. lol I let many go from being detained on probable cause after I found out my PC was something else or unsubstantiated by anything to corroborate my PC. The last thing I ever wanted was to lose a case and look like a dipshit on the stand. It's not what I know... it's what I can prove.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
I feel that it's all civil besides the lack of medical attention. That could be criminal... Official Misconduct or fail to act. The rest IMHO is civil... and they should all be fired. They do shoddy work.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
Resisted what? lol He has a right to run from the cops absent any arrestable offense. The knife was legal and there was no provable drug deal.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
Do you understand he resisted the officers after what you agree was probable cause to stop & question? Again, that is a crime. You get this stuff, right?
They are reporting they saw a drug sale, but I've already told you this.
Well, as usual, most of the early reporting on a high profile police case turns out to be totally false. This looks worse and worse for the cops. No probable cause, no switchblade, dead suspect with an near-severed spinal cord (not easy to do). And now it seems the paddy wagon made an extra stop before it got to the police station but everyone involved forgot until now about the extra stop by the wagon.
He had been arrested 22 times, according to one report. It looks to me like the six cops thought “here he is again”….got complacent and started thinking “let’s just get this over with.” Rule #1: Always follow the law and departmental procedures. I have been hoping for some “out” for the officers, but the more I look into this and the more I learn….I see none.
Enter Dershowitz whose expertise far exceeds that of anyone on this board.
You might find this hard to believe... but all the times I witnessed someone run on foot away from me just because we looked at each other, I NEVER GAVE CHASE. Why? Let the douche run in front of a moving car for all I care... I ain't sweating my ass off for something i have no clue how big it is. Could be a joint... a kilo of cocaine or NOTHING AT ALL... like I care. Not giving chase JUST for eye to eye contact was part of my basic academy training... I stuck by it.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
They are reporting they saw a drug transaction, so your post isn't relevant unless you ignored such things.
My Post #33....same conclusion.
They were screwed when he died of injuries not that they caused but while in their custody. Once cuffed, the turd bag is all YOUR responsibility... plain and simple. Liability, it's a bitch.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
You have no idea when the injuries happened. It will be argued they occurred during the arrest.
They also saw a switchblade. lol
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
Which does what to your claim he was injured in police custody? lol
By the sounds of Mosby's "independent witch hunt" the injury happened inside the transport vehicle BETWEEN STOPS and without an officer present. I have inside Intel that stated it was self inflicted inside the van and while not being secured. A prisoner original testified it was self inflicted... and then realized he would be famous if he changed his testimony or statement. If Mosby had any proof Gray was hurt during the arrest, she would have stated that today. Their case is gonna be a "rough ride" caused Gray to be thrown around the inside of the paddy wagon.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
Restate your question.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
You're giving this affirmative action, 36-y/o, probably never tried a murder case before attorney way too much credit. She's a radical hater who is driven by the Obama/Holder/Sharpton agenda, not fact. I have complete confidence in Dershowitz. This case is a rush to judgement. Good night.
I agree... but what I've seen, the 6 officers didn't do a perfect job. Expect some wrongdoing after a trial by peer.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
It's reported now, on Fox News, by an officer that's identity is being withheld, is reporting a hand to hand transaction, both subjects fled, both subjects were caught and no money or drugs recovered... SO NOTHING WAS REPORTED OR PUT IN THE REPORTS BY OFFICERS... so no drug arrests were gonna be filed. He was arrested for a bogus knife charge. Sounds fishy
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
Enter Dershowitz whose expertise far exceeds that of anyone on this board. Alan Dershowitz is widely considered an outstanding professor of law, but he is not always right. Take a look at the Zimmerman case where he claimed that Special Prosecutor Angela Corey ought to be criminally prosecuted for her action in the prosecution of Zimmerman. If he was wrong about Angela Corey then, why should he be right about Marilyn Mosby now? Methinks you may place too much faith in the opinion of Dershowitz.
He wasn't wrong about Corey. He thought she overcharged, which she did. Zimmerman would likely have been found guilty of a lesser charge.
www.mediaite.com/tv/frien...was-great-witness-for-us/ Freddie was a snitch.
I think the same is true in this case. It isn't just Dershowitz saying Mosby overcharged in this case. It's almost like the prosecutors are overcharging, knowing they'll get an acquittal but they can pander to the mobs for the duration. If you heard her statement to the public, it was far more a political speech than anything else. And her husband is a Baltimore city councilman who was active in the demonstrations. Some commentators are already saying that a special prosecutor should be appointed because Mosby has been so unprofessional in her rollout of this case.
Freddie was a snitch. I'd take issue with him being a witness. A witness testifies in court for the prosecution. I haven't read a single account of him testifying for the prosecution in any case. As for being a confidential informer, perhaps he was. But if so, there is an official record of when and how he worked as a confidential informant, whether he snitched for money or to reduce charges against himself for his own crimes. So there is a lot more to this snitch/witness bit that we don't know yet.
How biased does a black female DA have to be to get Dershowitz riled at at the injustice? BTW,I was watchign "The Toady Show" on NBC this morning,and the black female DA is related to the Gray family lawyer (though blood or other connections,it wasn't made clear which),and that her husband in the councilman that represents the district where the Gray family lives.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
It doesn't matter because she is shooting for,and will get,an appointment to be a feral prosecutor for the alleged Justice Dept. She will probably work there a few years until they figure out a way to dump her once the Tan Klan isn't in charge anymore,and then she will run for public office as a "crew-sade-IN sista gainst racism" congresscritter or mayor and then there won't be any getting rid of her. She's just playing the black racist game for political advantage.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
I agree. But they had reasonable suspicion to detain and question -- which is all that's needed. You need probable cause to arrest.
If he ran from them and they had to run him down and take him to the ground to arrest him,they had every right,and even an obligation,to search him for weapons or other contraband. If he ran,there is no way in hell they did not have justification for a search.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
IF I understand correctly what the homegurl DA was saying on teebee this morning,she was saying the knife wasn't illegal because the cops didn't have probable cause to search this goober. She was asked a couple of times about "the switchblade",and was careful to never say OR deny it was a switchblade. She would only say that nothing found was evidence due to a lack of probable cause. Frankly,I'd like to have seen HER give blood for a drug test right after that interview because she seemed to be pretty zoned out herself. If you watch it on youtube or somewhere else,notice her eyes and lack of facial expression.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
But he was a gud boi,juz now get-IN hiz life tagathah,and deaddic-tat-IN it to Jesus!
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
I'm guessing he was talking about the possibility of the 6 cops being convicted.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
They do,but the black female DA is claiming it's not usable as evidence because the cops had no probable cause to search him. She sounds a HELL of a lot more like a defense attorney than any DA *I* have ever heard of. I'm sure her connections to the Gray family lawyer or the fact that her husband will be running for re-election in the Gray family district has anything to do with that,though. Just a coinkydink.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
With the evidence so far, I agree. That would justify a charge of involuntary manslaughter being brought against the driver. But murder? Now, why were the other 5 charged? With murder, no less?
That's what the early reporting was. I was mistaken though since this prosecutor is now saying it was not a switchblade at all. Of course, this prosecutor is more than a little suspect as a political hack so who knows if she's just making stuff up at this point.
No,she stated it wasn't illegal due to no probable cause for a search. How many suspects did YOU run down and then fail to search for weapons,drugs,or other contraband? But don't worry about her. She will be just fine. In fact,this is the kickoff for her future career as an elected official.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
Running away from police is not probable cause to arrest or to search.
That was what she implied on "The Toady Show" this morning,but not exactly what she said. The knife was "legal" if there was no probable cause for the search. That's the horse she is riding.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
I agree. There was and is no excuse for that,and anyone involved in the decision-making process that neglected to get him the care he needed should be hammered over it.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
Sure she did. She was hoping he'd plea to a lower charge. The same is being done here. Charge 6 cops with murder, hoping at least one is willing to "flip" on the others and tell a story the prosecutor likes. However, murder is ridiculous. They know it and will be acquitted.
You're right about her ambitions. From street agitator to prosecutor to the House or Senate. The cops go into this with one advantage; she made a change of venue a sure shot.
It is also a stepping stone to a political career for the AA DA. It won't hurt her husband's political career,either.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
I'd never rule out a flip, but even with one it's a difficult case. Yesterday's presentment staved off an immediate riot for one further down the road.
It's a political campaign method/strategy. This gurl won't be a AA DA for long. She's shooting for a spot as an elected AA representative.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
Running away from the police causes reasonable suspicion, enough to detain. Once detained, the police may search the suspect for weapons for their safety. They may even handcuff the suspect if circumstances warrant that. But they do need probable cause for an arrest. The knife gave them that. Now, if the knife is legal, he could not be convicted.
Running away from police is not probable cause to arrest or to search. Maybe not,but being caught and detained is. Ever heard of "Officer Safety"? Not to mention the FACT that the cops HAVE to search anyone they are sending off to lockup to make sure they have no weapons,drugs,or other contraband on them before they put them in with the other prisoners.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
How long before we see an actual verdict? 3 years?
IMO it benefits the State to rush the preceding (bury the defense in last minute discovery then hit them with an earl trial date), and they control the calendar. OTOH, if they are looking for a flip (they are) they'll slow things down. All said & done, without a flip, my best guess is within a year.
Before the Presidential election? Ooooh, Hillary ain't gonna like it. She's all in for the victim.
That was what she implied on "The Toady Show" this morning,but not exactly what she said. The knife was "legal" if there was no probable cause for the search. That's the horse she is riding. That is NOT what she "implied"....that is what she said and what the police report confirmed:
Hard to believe they're legal. A switchblade has a button (switch) on the handle. A spring assisted knife has a stud on the blade. Both types are spring loaded and can be quickly opened with one hand.
Shocking you'd use Mosby's words from her presser as evidence the arrest wasn't legal. Would anyone expect her to say anything else? The stop, pursuit & arrest for resisting is by far and away the easiest hurdle for the defense. Let's bookmark this thread and come back to it when the defense rips the charge apart.
I saw this video earlier, along with some others on youtube showing the same thing. It is amazing that the spring loaded can be opened as quickly as the switchblade. Just another case where we have some stupid laws.
Does the prosecutor have to show the arrest was illegal, or do the police have to show the arrest was legal? I am not as familiar with the law and all aspects of this case as you are, but I believe it is the latter....am I wrong? I can easily be convinced with the presentation of anything factual. Please show me how and were the arrest was deemed to be legal. Thank you for doing this.
The burden of proof is on the prosecutor, and she has a high bar "beyond a reasonable doubt." The defense can sit back and do absolutely nothing if they choose to. Actually Zimmerman's attorney considered this strategy after the State presented their "star witnesses" who proved to be a disaster. The arrests will hold because Gray was known to the department (17 priors?) and he was in a drug prone location. When he ran upon approach he set in motion a "reasonable" possibility that he was engaged in criminal activity which green lights a stop/question. Upon apprehension he resisted which is a crime in and of itself.
Police can stop and search you, without arresting you and without requiring a warrant, if they reasonably suspect that you are committing an offence. Source: Police Powers to Search. Edit: I just learned this after looking up information furnished by Vinny:
I should have pinged you to Post #82. It may not have been an illegal arrest....I do not know Maryland law in this regard.
Fleeing from police is not, by itself, illegal in America, and the U.S. Supreme Court has made clear that in safe neighborhoods, people not suspected of criminal activity can ignore a police officer who approaches them, even to the point of walking away. But courts have set a different standard for places where street crime is common, ruling that police can chase, stop and frisk people if their location contributes to a suspicion of criminal activity.
Negative, the racist witch huntress stated right off the bat that the knife was a common ordinary folding knife and was not illegal to possess. You are gonna find that it's the same kind of wrist flicking assisted opening knife that NYPD has been charging as a "gravity knife"... and getting away with it because past case law shows quite a few convictions. I looked up Marylands definition of a switch or gravity knife... and I don't think it can be stretched to fit.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
I am still researching and have now come full circle. The cops charged Freddie Gray with “illegal possession of a switchblade.” It has been confirmed that the knife was not a switchblade. This apparently was the ONLY charge. Unless I can find something else, or can be shown something….I have to go back to my original thought that the sops failed to establish probable cause for his arrest and no crime was committed. It was an illegal arrest. Do you have anything else?
By a judge in a court of law? If not, then your "confirmation" that it's not a switchblade carrys no more weight than the cop's affirmation that it was. But let's say that the cops were in error. Let's say that it was indeed a spring-assisted knife, which is a legal knife. That doesn't make it an "illegal arrest". It means the defendant is not guilty of possessing an illegal knife.
Where are you getting this? The official police report states: “The defendant was arrested without force or incident.”
By a judge in a court of law? By the police officer who recovered the knife. "The knife was recovered by this officer and found to be a spring assisted one hand operated knife."
Okay, what makes it a "legal arrest?"
That is only after the officer attempts the arrest. Running away is not, in itself, probable cause. Sometimes a man who runs in the general vicinity of the police is just a man running. You can only evade arrest once an arrest attempt has begun. It is not cause for a preemptive arrest.
The law should have permitted a folding knife that takes two hands to open. That was the intent of the legislation. Instead, they ban "switchblades", leaving a loophole you can drive a truck through, and permitting gravity/inertia knives and spring-assist knives.
I agree.
None of this leagl crap matters. Only what a jury says will matter. And as we all know juries ALWAYS render fair and impartial verdicts, just as they did in OJ's murder case. Fear not, dse cops will get an uber fair trail in Baltimore. Best start storin yo stash of popcorn now 'cause dis gonna be awl ober damn soon, faster dan yo kin say hey ders a licker store, les loot it.
потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
In this case? If the cop believed the knife was illegal.
In the report you cited, the officer described it as a "switchblade" knife, which is also a spring assisted one hand operated knife. Switchblades are illegal. The arrest was valid. Now, maybe later in a court of law, they will determine that this wasn't technically a "switchblade" but simply a spring assisted one hand operated knife. If so, then the case will be thrown out because that knife is legal. Ever hear the expression, "Tell it to the judge"? That's because the cops don't want to try the case on the street. How many arrests end in convictions? 10%? Does that mean 90% of the arrests were illegal?
It is as you say, the court must decide if the knife was a switchblade or not.
My kind of switchblade:
Yes. No one else has that authority, nor would you want anyone else to have that authority.
With the push a button, the spring-loaded USB drive snaps out. Available in sizes between 2GB and 16GB, the SwitchBlade utilizes durable, solid-state storage to ensure data retention for up to 10 years. Yukon shall be proud, tater.
Which is a switchblade. You push a button (switch),and the spring makes the blade spring open and lock into place.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
A spring-loaded knife IS a switchblade.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
Gravity knives don't have springs. Switchblades have springs. I have owned both. Had gravity knives when I was a kid,and a "Parachute Rigger's Knife" when I was in the army that was a switchblade. Push a button and the spring causes the blade to spring open and lock into place
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
Really? Please show me a "spring assisted knife" that isn't a switchblade. Have none of you people actually owned or handled a switchblade?
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
By a judge in a court of law? By the police officer who recovered the knife. I once saw and heard a NYC police sgt on the tv show "Cops" describe 45 ACP hollow point bullets as "cop killer bullets because they are designed to penetrate bullet-proof vests. This was after he called in a firearms specialist to "safely unload" the rare and exotic 1911A1 45 ACP caliber handgun some guy on the subway had been carrying. Neither he nor the two cops that made the stop and arrest knew how to unload it and the cocked hammer scared them.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
You have YOUR definition, Pete....while there are many who differ with you. Here is only one: There are differences between a Switchblade and Assisted Opening Knives. SWITCHBLADE Assisted-Opening Knife / Spring-Assisted Opening Technology http://www.selfdefenseproducts.com/Assisted-Opening-Knife-Facts-sp-40.html
You have YOUR definition, Pete....while there are many who differ with you. Yes,and I am right and they are all wrong.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
Without question...
Correct. A switch opens by the push of a button only. A spring assist opens by the combination of a spring and the power of a thumb pushing a stud on the blade. BIG DIFFERENCE... and to arrest for a spring assist as a switch is a bad arrest.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
I even took the time and trouble to post a video, making it easy for people to educate themselves. Oh well. You can lead an asshole to water ...
There's the letter of the law and the spirit of the law. Under the letter of the law, a distinction is drawn between the two types of knives. Under the spirit of the law, I see no difference at all. They are both spring-assisted knives capable of being opened easily with one hand. And for that reason, they are equally lethal.
... more powerful than a locomotive ... not fazed by truth or facts ...
Officers aren't capable of accurately determining the spirit of a law with consistency, as a group. Trust me when I tell you. It's best to act within the letter of the law and base discretion on the suspects attitude and intent.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
... more powerful than a locomotive ... not fazed by truth or facts ... ... unassailable conviction ... unswerving determination
Not being known doesn't stop the truth from being true ~ Richard Bach
#2. To: Vinny (#1)
#3. To: GrandIsland (#2)
I'm sure they will get some low level convictions and some high dollar civil judgements against them.
#4. To: GrandIsland (#2)
There is no denying that officers arrested without probable cause.
#5. To: Vinny (#1)
“this is a show trial.”
#6. To: GrandIsland (#2)
#7. To: Vinny (#4)
A predicate felon, known to the department, loitering in an area known for drug sales flees from cops when approached = probable cause to stop & question. He fled & resisted = a good arrest.
#8. To: Vinny (#6)
Toxicology report shows evidence of heroin and marijuana, further, he was observed making a drug sale.
#9. To: All (#8)
(Edited)
Toxicology report shows evidence of heroin
#10. To: GrandIsland (#9)
but it doesn't lend credibility to support the original charge for arrest.
#11. To: Vinny (#10)
He was observed in what was believed a drug sale.
#12. To: GrandIsland (#8)
#13. To: GrandIsland (#11)
(Edited)
Ok... and how do you get a conviction for an actual "drug sale" without any evidence the product sold was drugs or the other half of the sale?
#14. To: GrandIsland (#8)
Sounds like the bogus charge of a switchblade was the best they had.
#15. To: out damned spot (#12)
#16. To: TooConservative (#14)
Supposedly, they do have the switchblade as evidence.
#17. To: TooConservative, GrandIsland (#14)
(Edited)
Sounds like the bogus charge of a switchblade was the best they had.
#18. To: TooConservative (#14)
The false arrest is apparently due to a police report on the arrest that they initially went after the perp solely because he averted his eyes from the police.
#19. To: Gatlin (#17)
"The knife was not a switchblade, and it is lawful," Mosby said Friday
#20. To: Vinny (#13)
No evidence? Happens all the time. The exchange is made for cash, with the cash being the evidence. Surely you've come across a dealer selling one bundle and calling it a day?
#21. To: Vinny (#13)
And why toss conviction into this? We're discussing an arrest and transport.
#22. To: GrandIsland (#19)
(Edited)
#23. To: Gatlin (#22)
#24. To: GrandIsland (#21)
Why arrest and transport without an even close to a winnable case?
#25. To: GrandIsland (#23)
I don't think they are guilty of murder, manslaughter or even assault... but I do feel the arrest was bad, they failed to get him medical attention in a reasonable time... and they violated policy by not seat belting his ass into that paddy wagon.
#26. To: GrandIsland (#21)
"I saw a drug sale" is enough for the stop and frisk. Once they have nothing to substantiate WHAT I THINK I SAW... let him GO.
#27. To: Vinny (#24)
(Edited)
So before making an arrest you pause and ponder the odds of a positive jury verdict?
#28. To: Gatlin (#25)
#29. To: Vinny (#26)
How do u let him go after he resisted? That's a separate crime.
#30. To: GrandIsland (#27)
#31. To: GrandIsland (#29)
He has a right to run from the cops absent any arrestable offense.
#32. To: GrandIsland (#18)
Negative. Listen to the States Attorney from 10:30 this morning. She made it clear that the knife was legal and the arrest was unsubstantiated.
#33. To: GrandIsland (#28)
Rule #2: Always follow Rule #1.
#34. To: Gatlin (#33)
I have been hoping for some “out” for the officers, but the more I look into this and the more I learn….I see none.
#35. To: Vinny (#24)
#36. To: GrandIsland (#35)
#37. To: TooConservative, GrandIsland (#32)
This looks worse and worse for the cops.
#38. To: TooConservative (#32)
And now it seems the paddy wagon made an extra stop before it got to the police station but everyone involved forgot until now about the extra stop by the wagon.
#39. To: GrandIsland (#38)
They were screwed when he died of injuries not that they caused but while in their custody.
#40. To: Vinny (#36)
They are reporting they saw a drug transaction, so your post isn't relevant unless you ignored such things.
#41. To: GrandIsland (#40)
They also saw a switchblade. lol
#42. To: Vinny (#39)
#43. To: Vinny (#41)
Which does what to your claim he was injured in police custody?
#44. To: GrandIsland (#42)
If Mosby had any proof Gray was hurt during the arrest, she would have stated that today
#45. To: Vinny (#44)
This case is a rush to judgement.
#46. To: Vinny (#36)
(Edited)
#47. To: Vinny (#34)
(Edited)
I have been hoping for some “out” for the officers, but the more I look into this and the more I learn….I see none.
#48. To: Gatlin (#47)
If he was wrong about Angela Corey then, why should he be right about Marilyn Mosby now?
#49. To: GrandIsland (#46)
It's reported now, on Fox News, by an officer that's identity is being withheld, is reporting a hand to hand transaction, both subjects fled, both subjects were caught and no money or drugs recovered.
#50. To: Vinny (#48)
He wasn't wrong about Corey. He thought she overcharged, which she did. Zimmerman would likely have been found guilty of a lesser charge.
#51. To: Vinny (#49)
www.mediaite.com/tv/frien...was-great-witness-for-us/
#52. To: Vinny, *Crime and Corruption* (#0)
And as for murder charges, Dershowitz said there’s “no plausible, hypothetical, conceivable case for murder” and “this is a show trial.”
#53. To: GrandIsland (#2)
(Edited)
All six are fuked... and so will Mosby's career after the DA doesn't hit the home run that racist set up today.
#54. To: Vinny (#4)
(Edited)
"A predicate felon, known to the department, loitering in an area known for drug sales flees from cops when approached = probable cause to stop & question. He fled & resisted = a good arrest."
#55. To: Vinny (#4)
A predicate felon, known to the department, loitering in an area known for drug sales flees from cops when approached = probable cause to stop & question. He fled & resisted = a good arrest.
#56. To: GrandIsland (#7)
I get that. But, they gave chase and in the end... found nothing but a legal pocket knife. To keep him in custody, what's the "good arrest" based on?
#57. To: out damned spot (#12)
#58. To: Vinny (#13)
And why toss conviction into this? We're discussing an arrest and transport.
#59. To: TooConservative (#14)
Supposedly, they do have the switchblade as evidence.
#60. To: GrandIsland (#42)
"Their case is gonna be a "rough ride" caused Gray to be thrown around the inside of the paddy wagon."
#61. To: sneakypete (#59)
They do,but the black female DA is claiming it's not usable as evidence because the cops had no probable cause to search him.
#62. To: GrandIsland (#16)
She stated very clearly that the knife he had was legal.
#63. To: sneakypete (#55)
If he ran,there is no way in hell they did not have justification for a search.
#64. To: Gatlin (#17)
"The knife was not a switchblade, and it is lawful," Mosby said Friday
#65. To: GrandIsland (#23)
they failed to get him medical attention in a reasonable time... and they violated policy by not seat belting his ass into that paddy wagon.
#66. To: Vinny (#48)
"He thought she overcharged, which she did."
#67. To: sneakypete (#62)
But don't worry about her. She will be just fine. In fact,this is the kickoff for her future career as an elected official.
#68. To: Vinny (#44)
This case is a rush to judgement.
#69. To: misterwhite (#66)
However, murder is ridiculous. They know it and will be acquitted.
#70. To: TooConservative (#50)
It's almost like the prosecutors are overcharging, knowing they'll get an acquittal but they can pander to the mobs for the duration.
#71. To: TooConservative (#63)
"Running away from police is not probable cause to arrest or to search."
#72. To: TooConservative (#63)
If he ran,there is no way in hell they did not have justification for a search.
#73. To: Vinny (#69)
"Yesterday's presentment staved off an immediate riot for one further down the road."
#74. To: misterwhite (#73)
#75. To: Vinny (#74)
"All said & done, without a flip, my best guess is within a year."
#76. To: sneakypete, GrandIsland (#64)
(Edited)
"The knife was not a switchblade, and it is lawful," Mosby said Friday
While news reports have described the knife Gray was carrying as a "switchblade," the actual police report (see charging documents at bottom of page) describes it as a "spring assisted, one hand opening knife," which has become among the most common on the market in recent years. (Update 5/1/14: At a news conference announcing that six police officers were being charged in Gray's death, state's attorney for Baltimore Marilyn J. Mosby confirmed that the knife was indeed "not a switchblade and is lawful under Maryland law.") source
The cops apparently had no reason to arrest him:Baltimore police officers had no reason to arrest 25- year-old Freddie Gray in the first place, Baltimore's chief prosecutor, Marilyn J. Mosby, announced at a news conference Friday morning.
It looks like she is correct.
#77. To: Gatlin (#76)
"describes it as a "spring assisted, one hand opening knife"
#78. To: Gatlin (#76)
#79. To: misterwhite (#77)
#80. To: Vinny (#78)
Sidebar Info: Your Right of Defense Against Unlawful Arrest.
#81. To: Gatlin (#80)
#82. To: TooConservative, sneakypete (#72)
(Edited)
Running away from police is not probable cause to arrest or to search.
Some states have specific laws against evading arrest on foot. Other states have a general law that prohibits obstructing justice or resisting arrest, which includes running away from an officer (as well as other behavior). Evading arrest on foot (sometimes called flight) is committed by knowingly running away from an officer to escape capture, detention, or arrest. Source.
#83. To: Vinny (#81)
(Edited)
#84. To: TooConservative, sneakypete, Vinny (#83)
#85. To: sneakypete (#56)
saying the knife wasn't illegal because the cops didn't have probable cause to search
#86. To: Vinny (#84)
(Edited)
#87. To: Gatlin (#86)
"It has been confirmed that the knife was not a switchblade."
#88. To: Vinny (#81)
Upon apprehension he resisted which is a crime in and of itself.
#89. To: misterwhite (#87)
"It has been confirmed that the knife was not a switchblade."
#90. To: misterwhite (#87)
That doesn't make it an "illegal arrest".
#91. To: Gatlin (#82)
Some states have specific laws against evading arrest on foot. Other states have a general law that prohibits obstructing justice or resisting arrest, which includes running away from an officer (as well as other behavior). Evading arrest on foot (sometimes called flight) is committed by knowingly running away from an officer to escape capture, detention, or arrest.
#92. To: Gatlin (#79)
"Just another case where we have some stupid laws."
#93. To: TooConservative (#91)
#94. To: All (#0)
#95. To: Gatlin (#90)
"Okay, what makes it a "legal arrest?"
#96. To: Gatlin (#89)
"The knife was recovered by this officer and found to be a spring assisted one hand operated knife."
#97. To: misterwhite (#96)
Now, maybe later in a court of law, they will determine that this wasn't technically a "switchblade" but simply a spring assisted one hand operated knife.
#98. To: misterwhite (#96)
The Super Talent CSB – SwitchBlade is a USB drive featuring a switchblade-type enclosure. With the push a button, the spring-loaded USB drive snaps out. Available in sizes between 2GB and 16GB, the SwitchBlade utilizes durable, solid-state storage to ensure data retention for up to 10 years.
#99. To: Gatlin (#97)
"It is as you say, the court must decide if the knife was a switchblade or not."
#100. To: Gatlin (#98)
My kind of switchblade:
#101. To: Gatlin (#76)
While news reports have described the knife Gray was carrying as a "switchblade," the actual police report (see charging documents at bottom of page) describes it as a "spring assisted, one hand opening knife,"
#102. To: Gatlin (#79)
It is amazing that the spring loaded can be opened as quickly as the switchblade.
#103. To: GrandIsland (#85)
You are gonna find that it's the same kind of wrist flicking assisted opening knife that NYPD has been charging as a "gravity knife"... and getting away with it because past case law shows quite a few convictions.
#104. To: misterwhite (#87)
(Edited)
Let's say that it was indeed a spring-assisted knife, which is a legal knife.
#105. To: Gatlin (#89)
"It has been confirmed that the knife was not a switchblade."
#106. To: sneakypete, misterwhite (#104)
Really? Please show me a "spring assisted knife" that isn't a switchblade.
A switchblade (also known as automatic knife, switch, or, in British English flick knife) is a type of knife with a folding blade that springs out of the grip when a button or lever on the grip is pressed. There are two basic types: side-opening and out-the-front (OTF). A side-opening knife's blade pivots out of the side of the handle (in the same manner as an ordinary folding knife). An out-the-front knife's blade slides directly forward, out of the tip of the handle. Many OTF (out-the-front) knives work with a dual-action mechanism that enables the user to extend and retract the knife in one press of the finger, with no cocking or priming action. However, some OTF (out-the-front) knives are single action, and require the user to manually retract the blade. A wide variety of blade designs may be found on switchblades, but the most common is the Italian stiletto style seen often in movies. However, the switchblade should not be confused with the butterfly knife (balisong), assisted-opening knife, or the non-automatic stiletto.
A spring-assisted knife is a knife that when you push on the thumb stud to open it a spring takes over and propels the blade open. Spring-assisted knives make a great alternative to automatic knives. A Spring / Torsion assisted knife is a type of knife which uses a spring assisted mechanism behind the blade. They open by the ambidextrous thumb stud on the blade with a slight bit of pressure. They are commonly confused with switchblades, but have one main difference. While a switchblade can be opened usually with the push of a button within the handle, the user of a spring-assisted knife must apply slight pressure to the thumb stud and the spring/torsion assisted mechanism does the rest. Once the knife has been opened about one-quarter of the way (45°), the mechanism will open the knife the rest of the way. A/O knives are Assisted - Opening which are also Spring - Assisted knives.
#107. To: Gatlin (#106)
Really? Please show me a "spring assisted knife" that isn't a switchblade.
#108. To: sneakypete (#107)
Yes,and I am right and they are all wrong.
#109. To: Gatlin (#106)
While a switchblade can be opened usually with the push of a button within the handle, the user of a spring-assisted knife must apply slight pressure to the thumb stud and the spring/torsion assisted mechanism does the rest.
#110. To: Gatlin (#106)
#111. To: GrandIsland (#109)
"Correct. A switch opens by the push of a button only. A spring assist opens by the combination of a spring and the power of a thumb pushing a stud on the blade. BIG DIFFERENCE... and to arrest for a spring assist as a switch is a bad arrest."
#112. To: Gatlin (#108)
"Yes,and I am right and they are all wrong.
Without question..."
#113. To: misterwhite (#111)
Under the spirit of the law, I see no difference at all. They are both spring-assisted knives capable of being opened easily with one hand. And for that reason, they are equally lethal.
#114. To: misterwhite (#112)
"Yes,and I am right and they are all wrong.
Without question..."
#115. To: misterwhite (#110)
Oh well. You can lead an asshole to water ...
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