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Title: Let me ask all of you some questions:
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www.ChristianPatriot.com
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Published: Apr 22, 2015
Author: Pastor Bob Celeste ACP
Post Date: 2015-04-22 14:58:34 by BobCeleste
Keywords: ACP
Views: 13590
Comments: 102
Let me ask all of you some questions: 1. Do you think today’s preachers are smarter, as smart or not as Scripturally smart as Preachers in the 1770's? 2. Do you think today’s politicians are smarter, as smart, or not as smart Constitutionally as politicians in the 1770's and the first days of our Republic? 3. If Revolution were legal, acceptable and encourage by both the politicians of the colonies and the preachers of the colonies in the 1770's, why is it unacceptable, and discouraged by both the preachers and the politicians today? 4. If Romans chapter 13 was not a problem to Christians revolting against the crown in the 1770's why is it today?
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#51. To: TooConservative, Pericles (#36)
Graven. According to Pericles Prots are stupid...At least we can spell:)
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead” (1 Peter 1:3)
That above is the slogan for TOS.:)
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead” (1 Peter 1:3)
Is a crucifix a graven image? Can a cross be a graven image? Is a fish figure as an symbol of Christianity a graven image? Good questions. Especially a crucifix or cross with the suffering Christ image on it. It was His time of shame. I always wondered that even when I was Catholic. I said "My Christ is not still hanging on a cross...He is Risen and the tomb is empty." You will probably get quite a few answers to your questions. I think the important piece is what I mentioned...the 2nd Commandment. If one prays to, bows to or worships an image then it is an idol. Some churches kneel before statues of human beings...saints and icons. I see that as a violation of the 2nd commandment which is clear. Now is Christian art ok? I think so. I think art is like music a way to express faith and honor God. When the image becomes an element of the worship and is 'venerated' then that becomes a problem.
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead” (1 Peter 1:3)
I fully agree.
“Let no one mourn that he has fallen again and again; for forgiveness has risen, from the grave.” John Chrysostom www.evidenceforJesusChrist.org
Wasn't George the 3rd a Protestant himself?? You really know how to cut through the 'bull' very well:) Yeah all great points. Seems leftist are all for the 'rights of kings' now that they have their own emperor Zero. Turned into a pretty interesting thread.... Excellent revelations and yes, great points, gents.
Object all you want. It's still true. So you are sticking with a Presbyterian 'jihad' with the Black Bde as a type of Mahdi army?
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead” (1 Peter 1:3)
Is a crucifix a graven image? Can a cross be a graven image? Is a fish figure as an symbol of Christianity a graven image? Good questions. Especially a crucifix or cross with the suffering Christ image on it. It was His time of shame. I always wondered that even when I was Catholic. I said "My Christ is not still hanging on a cross...He is Risen and the tomb is empty." You will probably get quite a few answers to your questions. I think the important piece is what I mentioned...the 2nd Commandment. If one prays to, bows to or worships an image then it is an idol. Some churches kneel before statues of human beings...saints and icons. I see that as a violation of the 2nd commandment which is clear. I apologize for starting at the bottom on this thread, (more or less)... +100 on all your observations and points. Seemed every nook and cranny of my Roman Catholic church was festooned with statues, crossed, Mary holding Jesus, candles...with kneeling benches propped up before them. And think about *this* seemingly benign gesture: Doing the "sign of the cross" while walking or driving past the church. In that case has the church made itself an "Idol"? Not that it "hurts" anybody and may seem petty....it's just that isn't *it* a violation of the second commandment?
The history TC dug up on the Presbyterian influence and catalyst of the Revolution has not been widely circulated....but sure is interesting and thought-provoking. Instead of a "Jihad," I'd consider it more of a "Mosaic Movement" that led to our own promised land. ;-) The goal of the Reformed Prots wasn't to convert and turn America into a theocracy, but more to unshackle what was fast appearing to be a growing tyranny... Good thing that's nothing to worry about now.
As a Catholic, I am aware of the doctrine and of the history and of the various legalistic justifications. I am not, however, persuaded that there have in fact been many truly Just Wars before God. But if there have been, the American Revolution was not among them. Legalism does not convert wrongful killing into righteous killing, no matter who throws holy water at it.
I don't know where to start...
Oh you might want to use spell check for your post above. It's "inherently." Usually I give a pass on errors like that, but since you were asserting Protestants are stupid, I just thought I'd mention it. OUCH
I appreciate that you have indeed addressed and answered on of Bob's questions. Granted -- I understand where you're coming from. On a personal sovereignty level, at what point should one justify defending themselves? Is it when state/person confiscates/taxes our goods beyond what's considered "fair"? Should our house be confiscated without compensation, then what? I guess we could just find other shelter. What if we are extorted us for more than we could afford? Or are prevented from worship? Prevented from seeking the right medicine that heals us? And at what point should our family resist physical harm (without doing the same in kind?) Some are though calls....and maybe those questions are intended rhetorically.
Signed July 4, 1776 That was a full decade before The Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom was enacted into state law in 1786 and 15 years before our religious freedom was protected by the 1st Amendment to our Constitution. As I explained to you previously, many of the Founders at the Continental Congress were Christians for public/political purposes only, because they were prohibited from participating in politics if their religious beliefs did not conform to the official government religion.
Say Hey, Willie -- what *was* "the official government religion" at the time of the assembly of the Continental Congress? I ferget. Furthermore, THIS was you original assertion: Willie Green posted on 2015-04-22 15:45:19 ET How many "Deists" were only masquerading as Christians for "public/political purposes only," Willie? Got a head count? Or does Salon lack those stats? Let the record show that you've doubled down and wandered into BS territory here.
Don't think the founders were jumping ship based on a state law. Here are the denominations of the The Fifty Five Delegates to the Constitutional Convention: The Fifty Five Delegates to the Constitutional Convention Christian Denominations As I explained to you previously, many of the Founders at the Continental Congress were Christians for public/political purposes only, because they were prohibited from participating in politics if their religious beliefs did not conform to the official government religion. As I explained in response to you such is revisionist history. Trying to put modern ideas/culture/philosophy on 18th century people. What confirms my point is that AFTER the Constitution was ratified and the First Amendment in effect no one 'changed their faith' or expressed their lack of faith in the Christian God. There was no major historical event where people stopped going to church or the Christian faith was diminished. That came much later in American society with the rise of the socialist-progressive atheist humanist movement. This same movement exercised another tactic of historical revisionism by trying to invoke the few deists in colonial America as really atheists and like them. Which of course is bunk.
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead” (1 Peter 1:3)
All killing is wrong even in war. Orthodox are denied communion for three years as penance if they kill in a war - rightous killing though it may be.
Perfect sound when heretics roast at the stake.
This same movement exercised another tactic of historical revisionism by trying to invoke the few deists in colonial America as really atheists and like them. Which of course is bunk. +500 Q: WHAT has prompted this sudden rash of historical revisionism that denied America's Christian Founders' past? I'm not sure Willie can refute and recalibrate your above confirmed point(s). No one was compelled to "changed their faith" after the USCON was ratified. NONE whatsoever. And for some reason, he's not yet refuted you link to the Fifty Five Delegates to the Constitutional Convention who were comprised of various Christian Denominations. Go ahead, Willie. Link us back to a source that supports your assertion that "Deists" were only masquerading as Christians for "public/political purposes only." And specify and source which ones were Deist/Atheist as well. Thanks. P.S. -- If you can't, you're just engaging in propagandist rumor-mongering and wishful thinking, aren't you?
Is your church using voodoo dolls at the Greek weenie roast these days? Or just describing your post-mortem milieu? Sorry... I've made other plans :-)
Oh stop that. The GOs are not blood thirsty murderers like their western 'brothers.' You all have a less bloody history probably because the Muslims killed all the resistance early on.
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead” (1 Peter 1:3)
More on if the founders were 'phony' Christians.... John Langdon, a Congregationalist, was a founder and the first president of the New Hampshire Bible Society. While Governor of New Hampshire he issued an official Proclamation for a General Thanksgiving in which he said: "The munificent Father of Mercies, and Sovereign Disposer of Events, having been graciously pleased to relieve the United States of America from the Calamities of a long and dangerous war: through the whole course of which, he continued to smile on the Labours of our Husbandmen, thereby preventing Famine (the most inseparable Companion of War) from entering our Borders; - eventually restored to us the blessings of Peace, on Terms advantageous and honourable...." Rufus King, an Episcopalian, was a member of the Continental Congress, aide to General Sullivan in the War for Independence, minister to England, and a U.S. Senator. At a convention considering amendments to the New York Constitution in 1821 he said: "[In our laws...by the oath which they prescribe, we appeal to the Supreme Being to deal with us hereafter as we observe the obligation of our oaths. The Pagan world were and are without the mighty influence of this principle which is proclaimed in the Christian system - their morals were destitute of its powerful sanction while their oaths neither awakened the hopes nor fears which a belief in Christianity inspires." Nathaniel Gorham, a Congregationalist, helped write the Massachusetts's Constitution, which required: "Any person chosen governor, or lieutenant-governor, cousellor, senator, or representative, and accepting the trust, shall before he proceed to execute the duties of his place or office, take, make, and subscribe the following declaration, viz. 'I, ____, do declare, that I believe the Christian religion, and have a firm persuasion of its truth.'" Such a religious test was Constitutional until 1947 when the Supreme Court rewrote the Constitution by making the First Amendment apply to the states, not just the federal government. Roger Sherman, a Congregationalist, was the only Founder to sign the Articles of Association, the Declaration, the Articles of Confederation and the Constitution. He was a member of the committee that drafted the Declaration and the First Amendment. He also drafted the creed of the White Haven Congregationalist church, which he attended. Sherman, John Adams, and George Wythe drafted the instructions to American embassy to Roman Catholic Canada in 1776, which said: "You are further to declare that we hold sacred the rights of conscience, and may promise to the whole people, solemnly in our name, the free and undisturbed exercise of their religion. And...that all civil rights and the right to hold office were to be extended to persons of any Christian denomination." William Samuel Johnson, Episcopalian, son of Anglican (Episcopalian) minister Samuel Johnson and president of Columbia University from 1787-1800. In his remarks to the first graduating class at Columbia after the War for Independence he said: "You this day, gentlemen, assume new characters, enter into new relations, and consequently incur new duties. You have, by the favor of Providence and the attention of your friends, received a public education, the purpose whereof hath been to qualify you the better to serve your Creator and your country...." "Your first great duties, you are sensible, are those you owe to Heaven, to your Creator and Redeemer. Let these be ever present to your minds, and exemplified in your lives and conduct." "Imprint deep upon your minds the principles of piety towards God, and a reverence and fear of His holy name. The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom and its consummation is everlasting felicity. Possess yourselves of just and elevated notions of the Divine character, attributes, and administration, and of the end and dignity of your own immortal nature as it stands related to Him." "Reflect deeply and often upon those relations. Remember that it is in God you live and move and have your being, - that in the language of David He is about your bed and about your path and spieth out all your ways, - that there is not a thought in your hearts, nor a word upon your tongues, but lo! He knoweth them altogether, and that he will one day call you to a strict account for all your conduct in this mortal life." "Remember, too, that you are the redeemed of the Lord, that you are bought with a price, even the inestimable price of the precious blood of the Son of God. Adore Jehovah, therefore, as your God and your Judge. Love, fear, and serve Him as your Creator, Redeemer, and Sanctifier. Acquaint yourselves with Him in His word and holy ordinances." "Make Him your friend and protector and your felicity is secured both here and hereafter. And with respect to particular duties to Him, it is your happiness that you are well assured that he best serves his Maker, who does most good to his country and to mankind." Alexander Hamilton, an Episcopalian, not only signed the Constitution but wrote 51 of the 85 Federalist Papers with Madison and Jay. He believed agreement on the Constitution could not have been obtained "without the finger of God." Although he agreed to duel with Burr, he told others that his duty as a Christian would prevent him from shooting and in his dying words claimed "a tender reliance on the mercy of the Almighty, through the merits of the Lord Jesus Christ." When he was killed he was planning the creation of "The Christian Constitutional Society," as he explained in an 1802 letter to James Bayard: "I now offer you the outline of the plan they have suggested. Let an association be formed to be denominated 'The Christian Constitutional Society,' its object to be first: The support of the Christian religion. Second: The support of the United States." William Paterson, a Presbyterian, was a state attorney general, Governor of New Jersey, and a Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court. He studied law after attending the College of New Jersey, though, given his interests, if he was alive today he might have earned a criminal justice degree online. The town of Paterson, New Jersey was named in his honor. As a Supreme Court Justice, a newspaper account of his visit to the federal court in Portsmouth, New Hampshire shows he opened court in this fashion: "On Monday last the Circuit Court of the United States was opened in this town. The Hon. Judge Paterson presided. After the Jury were impaneled, the Judge delivered a most eloquent and appropriate charge....Religion and morality were pleasingly inculcated and enforced as being necessary to good government, good order, and good laws, for 'when the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice [Proberbs 29:2].'... After the [jury] charge was delivered, the Rev. Mr. Alden addressed the Throne of Grace in an excellent and well adapted prayer." William Livingston, a Presbyterian, was a delegate to both Continental Congresses, the first Governor of New Jersey, and a Brigadier General in the militia. He published articles defending Christianity in The Independent Reflector and offered this resolution in Congress on March 16, 1776, passed without objection: "We earnestly recommend that Friday, the 17th day of May next, be observed by the colonies as a day of humiliation, fasting, and prayer, that we may with united hearts confess and bewail our manifold sins and transgressions, and by a sincere repentance and amendment of life appease God's righteous displeasure, and through the merits and mediation of Jesus Christ obtain His pardon and forgiveness." David Brearly, an Episcopalian, served as a colonel in the War for Independence, Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of New Jersey, and was appointed to the federal bench by George Washington. He was a warden of St. Michael's Church, a delegate to the Episcopal General Convention in 1786, and helped compile the Protestant Episcopal Prayer Book. Benjamin Franklin, "I have lived, sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth -- God Governs in the Affairs of Men, And if a Sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, Is it possible that an empire can rise without His aid? "Except the Lord build the house, They labor in vain who build it." "I firmly believe this." Benjamin Franklin, June 28, 1787 Constitutional Convention James Wilson, "Human law must rest its authority ultimately upon the authority of that law which is divine....Far from being rivals or enemies, religion and law are twin sisters, friends, and mutual assistants. Indeed, these two sciences run into each other."James Wilson, a signer of the Constitution and an original Justice on the U.S. Supreme Court In 1776 William Blount, a Presbyterian, helped draft the Tennessee Constitution which said: Article VIII, Section II: No person who denies the being of God, or a future state of rewards and punishments, shall hold any office in the civil department of this State. Article XI, Section IV: That no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under this State. The quotation shows the Founders did not consider a belief in God to be a "religious test," which in the history of England in the century before our Constitution meant allegiance to a particular denomination. Equally important, modern political scientists now understand that man's rights arise from the prohibition's of God's moral rules, and the branch of modern mathematics known as Game Theory has now proven that it is not rational to follow God's rules unless one believes in a God who can see into the hearts and in the existence of eternal rewards and punishments. Evidently our Founders understood these ideas innately, though our own science has only recently been able to demonstrate them rigorously. "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead” (1 Peter 1:3)
That's the reason why I ended up being an E7 for over 10 years, I wasn't PC. And when you have PC NCOs writing your performance reports you aint going any higher, they're scared you'll end up being their boss or you'll take their place.
“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”
Those Progressives within academia, politics, and the left-leaning media are concerned that religious ideas may receive too much attention or acceptance within the general culture. As William F. Buckley said "...what we're up against, and though the Academy and the judiciary, is a felt disappointment that the American Revolution was not the French Revolution, and a consequent attempt to Jacobinize the Constitution into religion and its influence are wholly vanished from our public life." This attempt to marginalize religion, or even exclude it from the public sphere is an unstated recognition that religious ideology has profound influence on the minds of people, ideas that might run counter to contemporary Progressive elitism.
“Let no one mourn that he has fallen again and again; for forgiveness has risen, from the grave.” John Chrysostom www.evidenceforJesusChrist.org
And when you have PC NCOs writing your performance reports you aint going any higher, they're scared you'll end up being their boss or you'll take their place. I survived my officer 'youth' because of NCOs like you in the Army. My godfather (Italian of course too:)) and father's best friend was an NCO in the Marine Corps during WWII in Pacific. When I was commissioned he told me there are good NCOs and bad NCOs and the test of a good junior officer is to listen to the good ones and take care of the men and the men will take care of you. Best advice and turned out to be the most solid advice I received.
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead” (1 Peter 1:3)
Yep, first order of business for progressive socialist humanists is to silence any opposing views. The Bolsheviks were good at this.
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead” (1 Peter 1:3)
I am in total disagreement with you, have you ever read the Declaration of Independence? Did you see the list of instances where the crown broke the law? When the Potentate breaks the law, it is justification to revolt, according to Romans 13.
The thread writer wants to color the revolutionary war in religious terms and that ends with heretics being burned at the stake - as is proper.
I am in total disagreement with you, have you ever read the Declaration of Independence? Did you see the list of instances where the crown broke the law? When the Potentate breaks the law, it is justification to revolt, according to Romans 13. Well, the quote is Vic's. If the reason the revolt back then was an unlawful regime, couldn't we also make that case for contemporary times? Maybe we're talking semantics here; Is "revolt" the same as waging a "just war" in this case? Or is it different? I can honestly see both the pro and con as it's pertains to Romans 13. Was the revolution fundamentally about self-defense or of an offensive nature? Was it about the oppressive evil and tyranny of a governance vs. negotiable quibbles? How *would* Jesus have handled it? (Just sayin.)
Is every Protestant a Salem Witch to you?
Exactly !!! Many Federal statist's would have you believe otherwise !!
Si vis pacem, para bellum
Most Orthodox are safe from such 'burning at the stake' given they are under the 'protection' of Muslims. Just beheadings and other horrible deaths from the Muzzies
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead” (1 Peter 1:3)
Better the turban of the Turk than the Tiara of the Pope is one famous saying. And I don't think any Orthodox would have wanted to live in Calvin's Protestant theocratic dictatorship.
Calvin's dead dude...News flash.
"The Lord shall preserve you from all evil; He shall preserve your soul.” (Psalm 121:7)
Deism, Atheism, and the Founders By Dave Miller, Ph.D. Popular propaganda spouted for half a century or more claims that the Founders and Framers of America were deists and largely irreligious men who sought to establish a secular society that celebrates all ideologies, religions, and philosophies as equally valid. This sinister “diversity” myth has inflicted untold damage on American society, bringing the nation literally to the brink of disaster. The failure of the average citizen to examine the facts and assess the gravity of the situation is inexcusable. In reality, the religious orientation of the architects of American civilization, and their view regarding its importance to the establishment and perpetuation of the Republic, is easily ascertainable. Rather than wade through the myriad pages and books that purport to depict American history accurately, all one need do is simply reread the organic utterances issued by the Founders as they orchestrated the founding. Though not including all those who rightly wear the appellation “Founder,” nevertheless, the Continental Congress comprised a substantial portion of those men, and they may clearly be designated quintessential Founders (see Miller, 2009, p. 3). They certainly constitute a representative cross section of the men who brought the Republic into existence. Consider one sample among many in which the Continental Congress en masse issued a proclamation to the entire population of the country on March 19, 1782: The United States in Congress assembled...think it their indispensable duty to call upon the several states, to set apart the last Thursday in April next, as a day of fasting, humiliation and prayer...that He would incline the hearts of all men to peace, and fill them with universal charity and benevolence, and that the religion of our Divine Redeemer, with all its benign influences, may cover the earth as the waters cover the seas (Journals of..., 22:137-138, emp. added). The “Divine Redeemer” is Jesus Christ. Calling for Christ’s religion to “cover the earth as the waters cover the seas” is a direct allusion to two Old Testament passages—Isaiah 11:9 and Habakkuk 2:14. The Founders insisted that the stability of the Republic depends on the Christian religion, with its moral principles and spiritual framework. They felt that though other religions may certainly be tolerated in America, the peculiar doctrines and practices of those religions must not be allowed to alter the laws and institutions of the nation. Nor must those doctrines and practices do any physical harm to Americans or violate Christian morality (e.g., polygamy, homosexuality, and abortion). The Founders would be horrified at the notion of “political correctness” and its corrosive, destructive influence. They would have difficulty believing that Americans would ever even consider allowing Sharia law to be included in our courts, schools, or government. The Founders never asked that Hinduism cover the Earth, nor Islam, Buddhism, or Atheism. Rather, they begged God to cover the Earth with the religion of Christ as thoroughly and completely as the waters cover the oceans of the world.b REFERENCES Journals of the Continental Congress, 1774-1789 (1904-1937), ed. Worthington C. Ford, et al. (Washington, D.C.: Government Printing Office), Library of Congress, http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/amlaw/lwjc.html. Miller, Dave (2009), Christ and the Continental Congress (Montgomery, AL: Apologetics Press).
“Let no one mourn that he has fallen again and again; for forgiveness has risen, from the grave.” John Chrysostom www.evidenceforJesusChrist.org
I didn't get the cheap sideswipe at Calvin either. I assume it's a slap at "Protestant work ethic".
Thought so too.
"The Lord shall preserve you from all evil; He shall preserve your soul.” (Psalm 121:7)
Calvin ran a totalitarian state.
Only American Protestants.
Calvin ran nothing. He was a writer and preacher.
Can't blame folks who get these wild ideas...It's the school system you know...
"The Lord shall preserve you from all evil; He shall preserve your soul.” (Psalm 121:7)
Exactly !!! That was Reagan. As I said, he was the most accurate. The first two quotes were Lincoln. The third, in agreement with Lincoln, was Adolf Hitler in Mein Kampf. For a good book on the framing and state sovereignty, see Republic of Republics, or American Federal Liberty, 4th Ed., 1881, by Bernard Janin Sage (originally pseudonyomous as P.C. Centz). Free download.
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Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestAlso, the Arc had craven images of Angels.
#52. To: BobCeleste (#35)
Some only read the heading and then post or email a condemnation.
#53. To: TooConservative, GarySpFc (#47)
Which would raise the inevitable questions:
#54. To: redleghunter (#53)
Good questions. Especially a crucifix or cross with the suffering Christ image on it. It was His time of shame. I always wondered that even when I was Catholic. I said "My Christ is not still hanging on a cross...He is Risen and the tomb is empty."
#55. To: redleghunter, CZ82, Bob Celeste, tomder55 (#50)
You know I wonder how many of the monarchs in the past just up and seized power for themselves?? And it's funny you never ever hear the Leftys complain about that, only that freedom seeking men overthrew the monarchs.
#56. To: TooConservative, liberator (#48)
American Revolution was some kind of Presbyterian 'jihad.'
#57. To: redleghunter, TooConservative, GarySpFc (#53)
Which would raise the inevitable questions:
#58. To: redleghunter, TooConservative (#46)
I know you are pointing to the Reformed worldview as a catalyst for the independence spirit. That would be correct, but I object to the notion the American Revolution was some kind of Presbyterian 'jihad.'
#59. To: Pericles (#43)
Vic, as a Catholic you know there is a justification for just wars. The American rebels rebelled in a legalistic manner after attempting diplomacy, organized an army to fight in the manner prescribed by civilized Christian nations of that era and conducted themselves as a nation state with an army in the field.
#60. To: Pericles (#4)
Protestant preachers are accursed heretics and thus inherintly stupid.
#61. To: redleghunter, Pericles (#7)
Forret Gump has a few one liners for you...
#62. To: Vicomte13, BobCeleste (#59)
I am not, however, persuaded that there have in fact been many truly Just Wars before God. But if there have been, the American Revolution was not among them.
#63. To: redleghunter, Vicomte13, GarySpFc (#49)
The best cross-section we have of the recorded faiths or denominations of the founders comes from the Continental Congress:
Religious Affiliation of the 56 Signers of the Declaration of Independence
Religious Affiliation of the 56 Signers of the Declaration of Independence
#64. To: Willie Green, redleghunter, Vicomte13, GarySpFc (#63)
As I explained to you previously, many of the Founders at the Continental Congress were Christians for public/political purposes only, because they were prohibited from participating in politics if their religious beliefs did not conform to the official government religion.
"Many of our Founding Fathers were actually Deists...our Founding Fathers were at best Deists... or perhaps godless merchants who despised paying taxes."
#65. To: Willie Green, liberator, BobCeleste, GarySpFc (#63)
That was a full decade before The Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom was enacted into state law in 1786 and 15 years before our religious freedom was protected by the 1st Amendment to our Constitution.
#66. To: Vicomte13 (#59)
Legalism does not convert wrongful killing into righteous killing, no matter who throws holy water at it.
#67. To: Liberator (#61)
OUCH
#68. To: redleghunter, Willie Green (#65)
What confirms my point is that AFTER the Constitution was ratified and the First Amendment in effect no one 'changed their faith' or expressed their lack of faith in the Christian God. There was no major historical event where people stopped going to church or the Christian faith was diminished. That came much later in American society with the rise of the socialist-progressive atheist humanist movement.
#69. To: Pericles (#67)
(Edited)
Perfect sound when heretics roast at the stake.
#70. To: Pericles, liberator (#67)
Perfect sound when heretics roast at the stake.
#71. To: Willie Green, GarySpFc, liberator, BobCeleste (#63)
As I explained to you previously, many of the Founders at the Continental Congress were Christians for public/political purposes only, because they were prohibited from participating in politics if their religious beliefs did not conform to the official government religion.
#72. To: redleghunter (#50)
You really know how to cut through the 'bull' very well:)
#73. To: All, redleghunter (#71)
#74. To: CZ82 (#72)
That's the reason why I ended up being an E7 for over 10 years, I wasn't PC.
#75. To: GarySpFC, BobCeleste, liberator, CZ82 (#73)
This attempt to marginalize religion, or even exclude it from the public sphere is an unstated recognition that religious ideology has profound influence on the minds of people, ideas that might run counter to contemporary Progressive elitism.
#76. To: Liberator, Vicomte13 (#62)
(Edited)
I am not, however, persuaded that there have in fact been many truly Just Wars before God. But if there have been, the American Revolution was not among them.
#77. To: redleghunter, liberator (#70)
#78. To: BobCeleste, Vicomte13 (#76)
I am not, however, persuaded that there have in fact been many truly Just Wars before God. But if there have been, the American Revolution was not among them.
#79. To: Pericles, BobCeleste, redleghunter, (#77)
The thread writer wants to color the revolutionary war in religious terms and that ends with heretics being burned at the stake - as is proper.
#80. To: nolu chan (#13)
" All of us need to be reminded that the Federal Government did not create the States; the States created the Federal Government. "
#81. To: Pericles (#77)
(Edited)
The thread writer wants to color the revolutionary war in religious terms and that ends with heretics being burned at the stake - as is proper.
#82. To: redleghunter (#81)
(Edited)
Most Orthodox are safe from such 'burning at the stake' given they are under the 'protection' of Muslims. Just beheadings and other horrible deaths from the Muzzies
#83. To: Pericles (#82)
And I don't think any Orthodox would have wanted to live in Calvin's Protestant theocratic dictatorship.
#84. To: Willie Green (#63)
#85. To: redleghunter (#83)
(Edited)
#86. To: TooConservative (#85)
I didn't get the cheap sideswipe at Calvin either. I assume it's a slap at "Protestant work ethic".
#87. To: TooConservative, redleghunter (#85)
didn't get the cheap sideswipe at Calvin either. I assume it's a slap at "Protestant work ethic".
#88. To: Liberator (#79)
Is every Protestant a Salem Witch to you?
#89. To: Pericles (#87)
Calvin ran a totalitarian state.
#90. To: TooConservative (#89)
Calvin ran nothing. He was a writer and preacher.
#91. To: Stoner (#80)
"All of us need to be reminded that the Federal Government did not create the States; the States created the Federal Government. "
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