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I'm here for the moneuy Status: Not Logged In; Sign In United States News See other United States News Articles Title: Let me ask all of you some questions: Source: www.ChristianPatriot.com URL Source: [None] Published: Apr 22, 2015 Author: Pastor Bob Celeste ACP Post Date: 2015-04-22 14:58:34 by BobCeleste Keywords: ACP Views: 13589 Comments: 102 Let me ask all of you some questions: 1. Do you think today’s preachers are smarter, as smart or not as Scripturally smart as Preachers in the 1770's? 2. Do you think today’s politicians are smarter, as smart, or not as smart Constitutionally as politicians in the 1770's and the first days of our Republic? 3. If Revolution were legal, acceptable and encourage by both the politicians of the colonies and the preachers of the colonies in the 1770's, why is it unacceptable, and discouraged by both the preachers and the politicians today? 4. If Romans chapter 13 was not a problem to Christians revolting against the crown in the 1770's why is it today? Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread   Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 57. #14. To: BobCeleste (#0) 4. If Romans chapter 13 was not a problem to Christians revolting against the crown in the 1770's why is it today? You won't get any straight answers to this one. Apparently, it was fine for the Founders to become traitorous rebels and depose the rule of their lawful king but it is unthinkable to dispose of some puny temporary mediocrity like the (generally loathsome) presidents of the last half-century. Tooconservative  posted on  2015-04-22   19:53:40 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #16. To: TooConservative, BobCeleste, redleghunter (#14) (Edited) Apparently, it was fine for the Founders to become traitorous rebels and depose the rule of their lawful king but it is unthinkable to dispose of some puny temporary mediocrity like the (generally loathsome) presidents of the last half-century. For the American revolution, the issue was always representation. Apparently a ruler can be horrible as long as he taxes you via your elected representatives. With that said, redleghunter's response is pretty much defensible from a both a secular and religious (civilizational Christian) point of view of a just war. Also, they were Protestant heathens - to quote the Godfather "They're animals anyway, so let them lose their souls". :) Pericles  posted on  2015-04-22   20:33:46 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #23. To: Pericles (#16) You haven't provided any evidence Protestants are heathens. Other than they don't submit to the Pharisees in funny hats who worship statues and pictures. What's the second commandment again? redleghunter  posted on  2015-04-23   0:10:51 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #25. To: redleghunter (#23) You haven't provided any evidence Protestants are heathens. Other than they don't submit to the Pharisees in funny hats who worship statues and pictures. What's the second commandment again? It is self evident that all men are created equal and Protestants are heretics. Pericles  posted on  2015-04-23   0:47:14 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #27. To: Pericles (#25) BTW, the actual Exodus 20 second commandment is: “You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; So there is that. Many churches violate the second commandment. Some bury it. redleghunter  posted on  2015-04-23   1:00:30 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #29. To: redleghunter (#27) (Edited) TW, the actual Exodus 20 second commandment is: “You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; So there is that. Many churches violate the second commandment. Some bury it. The reason was that God could not be seen to be represented. Then Jesus was born and could be seen and touched. Also, the Arc had craven images of Angels. Also, you Protestants forget that Jesus came along and ended the Old Covenant. Do you circumcise your male children in a religious ceremony? Do you keep Kosher? Pericles  posted on  2015-04-23   2:13:33 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #45. To: Pericles (#29) The reason was that God could not be seen to be represented. Then Jesus was born and could be seen and touched. Also, the Arc had craven images of Angels. Also, you Protestants forget that Jesus came along and ended the Old Covenant. Do you circumcise your male children in a religious ceremony? Do you keep Kosher? I've heard some rationalizations before on omitting the 2nd Commandment, but the above tops them all. YHWH commanded HIS earthly Ark (abode) would have the same make up as His Heavenly abode. The 2nd command still applies and is not akin to eating shellfish. Did God command icons and statues to be commissioned in the Christian church? No. He said don't make them and DON'T bow down to them. It was the pagan Greek and Roman influence on apostate assemblies and the incorporation of the church into secular government which led to these pagan images and practices. No one can find any of your church decorations in the NT church. I don't remember an epistle from an apostle which said "you foolish Galatians, why do you soil the holy icons..." redleghunter  posted on  2015-04-23   10:51:39 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #47. To: redleghunter (#45) Did God command icons and statues to be commissioned in the Christian church? No. He said don't make them and DON'T bow down to them. It was the pagan Greek and Roman influence on apostate assemblies and the incorporation of the church into secular government which led to these pagan images and practices. No one can find any of your church decorations in the NT church. Which would raise the inevitable questions: Is a crucifix a graven image? Can a cross be a graven image? Is a fish figure as an symbol of Christianity a graven image? Tooconservative  posted on  2015-04-23   10:57:47 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #53. To: TooConservative, GarySpFc (#47) Which would raise the inevitable questions: Is a crucifix a graven image? Can a cross be a graven image? Is a fish figure as an symbol of Christianity a graven image? Good questions. Especially a crucifix or cross with the suffering Christ image on it. It was His time of shame. I always wondered that even when I was Catholic. I said "My Christ is not still hanging on a cross...He is Risen and the tomb is empty." You will probably get quite a few answers to your questions. I think the important piece is what I mentioned...the 2nd Commandment. If one prays to, bows to or worships an image then it is an idol. Some churches kneel before statues of human beings...saints and icons. I see that as a violation of the 2nd commandment which is clear. Now is Christian art ok? I think so. I think art is like music a way to express faith and honor God. When the image becomes an element of the worship and is 'venerated' then that becomes a problem. redleghunter  posted on  2015-04-23   11:49:07 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #57. To: redleghunter, TooConservative, GarySpFc (#53) Which would raise the inevitable questions: Is a crucifix a graven image? Can a cross be a graven image? Is a fish figure as an symbol of Christianity a graven image? Good questions. Especially a crucifix or cross with the suffering Christ image on it. It was His time of shame. I always wondered that even when I was Catholic. I said "My Christ is not still hanging on a cross...He is Risen and the tomb is empty." You will probably get quite a few answers to your questions. I think the important piece is what I mentioned...the 2nd Commandment. If one prays to, bows to or worships an image then it is an idol. Some churches kneel before statues of human beings...saints and icons. I see that as a violation of the 2nd commandment which is clear. I apologize for starting at the bottom on this thread, (more or less)... +100 on all your observations and points. Seemed every nook and cranny of my Roman Catholic church was festooned with statues, crossed, Mary holding Jesus, candles...with kneeling benches propped up before them. And think about *this* seemingly benign gesture: Doing the "sign of the cross" while walking or driving past the church. In that case has the church made itself an "Idol"? Not that it "hurts" anybody and may seem petty....it's just that isn't *it* a violation of the second commandment? Liberator  posted on  2015-04-23   12:46:49 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   Replies to Comment # 57.         There are no replies to Comment # 57. End Trace Mode for Comment # 57. Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest

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