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Title: Leave the Houthis Alone!
Source: Antiwar.com
URL Source: http://original.antiwar.com/justin/ ... 03/26/leave-the-houthis-alone/
Published: Mar 27, 2015
Author: Justin Raimondo
Post Date: 2015-03-27 11:34:08 by nativist nationalist
Keywords: None
Views: 6947
Comments: 28

Why are we on the same side as the Saudis – and al Qaeda – in Yemen?

Saudi Arabia‘s US-backed aggression against the sovereignty of Yemen is a textbook example of how local conflicts are internationalized – and become tripwires for regional wars and even global conflagrations.

Like Libya, Yemen is yet another Middle Eastern country that doesn’t really exist: it is actually at least two separate countries, perhaps three – the southern provinces, which are primarily Sunni, the northern tribes, who adhere mostly to the Zaydi form of Shi’ite Islam, and the area around Sa’na, the capital, one of the oldest continuously inhabited cities on earth, where all Yemen’s clashing cultural, political, and religious factions meet.

The north/south division dates back to the nineteenth century British colonization, when, in 1839, the British seized the port city of Aden and administered it as a subset of the Indian Viceroyalty. It became a major trading center after the opening of the Suez canal, and the Brits pushed outward, extending their influence throughout what had been a land perpetually divided between the Ottoman Empire and local imams, including the distinctive Zaydis in the north. In 1911, the Zaydis rose up against the British and their local collaborators, abolished the north/south division negotiated by the British Foreign Office, and established the Mutawakkilite Kingdom of Yemen under Imam Yahya. Yahya’s dream was to recreate the ancient Qasamid dynasty, founded in the seventeenth century: a "Greater Yemen" extending into what is today Saudi Arabia as well as the whole of modern Yemen.

In the 1960s, the de-colonization movement in the Arab world took on a Nasserist, socialist form, and this was manifested in Yemen in the form of a coup against the king by Nasserist officers, who then established – after a three-way civil war pitting royalists against republicans against ultra- leftists – the People’s Democratic Republic of Yemen (PDRY), in the south, which became a de facto member of the Soviet bloc, and the Yemen Arab Republic (YAR) in the north.

The two Yemens warred with each other constantly – as well enduring violent internal conflicts – reflecting the religious, ideological, and historical differences that have plagued the country for centuries, but agreed to merge in 1990, after the Soviet bloc collapsed and the PDRY was left without Russian subsidies. Yet the "merger" was weak from the very beginning, and old divisions soon reemerged.

The southerners formed a secessionist movement, as did the Zaydis in the north (although they said they only wanted autonomy), and to complicate matters al Qaeda moved into the ensuing chaos – providing the central government in Sa’na with the perfect excuse to ask for outside intervention on its behalf.

As US aid and "advisors" poured into Yemen, the central government used this in order to cement what amounted to a de facto dictatorship. Government troops largely ignored Al Qaeda, which has very little popular support and poses no real threat to the central government’s authority, and concentrated their fire on the southern independence movement and especially the Houthi insurgency in the north. The latter – who are now in control of large swathes of the country, and have sent the "president" into hiding – have their origins in the "Believing Youth," which sought to revive the Shi’ite Zaydi religious tradition in order to counter Sunni fundamentalist preachers – precursors of al Qaeda – proselytizing with some success in the north. The Houthi counterinsurgency movement has defied the efforts of both the central government and the Saudis to suppress them, albeit not without considerable losses on their part: thousands of civilians were killed in the conflict, with hundreds of thousands displaced.

In spite of US-based news accounts reporting the current conflict to be between the Saudis and "Iran-backed rebels," the evidence for the Tehran- Houthi connection is tenuous to nonexistent. There is no evidence of Iranian involvement beyond political (i.e. rhetorical) support. Indeed, as Christopher Boucek and Marina Ottoway report in their book, Yemen on the Brink, "some Yemeni officials have confided that such assertions are unfounded." Doctrinal differences between the Zaydi sect of Shi’ism and the Iranians over important theological issues within Islam preclude Tehran from providing any substantial support for the Houthi insurgency beyond mere words. Neoconservative pundits who point to the Houthis’ success with alarm mirror the propaganda of al Qaeda, which denounces the Zaydi "takfiris" (apostates) in similarly hysterical terms. The Houthis, for their part, have never attacked Americans or American interests in Yemen, as acknowledged in a series of classified cables sent by the no-longer-present US embassy.

All of which underscores the present conundrum faced by US policymakers in the region. The neocons are screaming that US air strikes in Tikrit are helping the Iranian-commanded Shi’ite militias defeat ISIS, while in Yemen we are backing the Saudis against the supposedly-but-not-actually Iranian- backed Houthis. They are right to point out the obvious contradiction, but wrong in their proposed resolution – which seems to be to play the Sunni card and oppose the Iranians (or, more accurately, the Shi’ites) at every opportunity. Apparently the neocons’ calls to smash ISIS have been conveniently forgotten.

As with most of the current problems in the region, it all goes back to the Iraq war. That war handed the Iranians de facto control of Iraq: although the initial plan was for the neocons to anoint their favorites, Ahmed Chalabi and his gang, as the "democratic" rulers of the country, things didn’t work out that way (and Chalabi, it turns out, was canoodling with Tehran all along). Instead, the Ayatollah Sistani, chief of the majority Shi’ite sect, threatened an all-out rebellion if direct elections weren’t held. The Shi’ite parties won that election, and subsequent elections, and today Iraq is an Iranian ally. That’s why thousands of American soldiers and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis had to die – in a war to make Iraq a Shi’ite theocracy.

Now that Iraq is in the Iranian camp, it was only natural they would turn to their Shi’ite allies when ISIS arose to threaten Baghdad. This enraged the neocons, who – forgetting their own role in handing Iraq to the Iranians – are now targeting Tehran. The Iranians are taking care of ISIS for us, precluding US "boots on the ground," much to disappointment of John McCain and Lindsey Graham. It doesn’t count as a war in their book unless American blood is being spilled.

The same irony abounds in Yemen, where the Shi’ite Houthis are viscerally hostile to Al Qaeda, and are, indeed, the only indigenous force capable of defeating them and rooting them out. Yet that would preclude a Saudi-US intervention – and we can’t have that!

What’s happening in Yemen is a local problem, with causes that are strictly confined to the long and tumultuous history of that dirt-poor country. Foreign intervention, whether from the British, the Saudis, al Qaeda, or whomever, has only led to endless war and not improved the lot of the people by one iota. Now the Americans are using the "war on terrorism" to impose their will and re-order the Yemeni polity when they can have no real understanding of what is – or ought to be – going on there. Washington and Riyadh are internationalizing a conflict that is Yemeni in origin, and will only be resolved by the Yemenis themselves.

As I have written on many occasions, the "Sunni turn" – the US playing the "Sunni card" in Iraq and Syria – has been a disaster on so many levels that it’s hard to keep count. In Iraq, it led directly to ISIS – the mutant offspring of the so-called "Arab Awakening." In Syria, where US-backed "moderate" jihadists defected en masse to the ranks of our enemies, it led to the empowerment of ISIS and Al Nusra. And now in Yemen it is leading to the destruction of the Houthis – a long-suffering and valiant people – at the hands of our Saudi allies and their 10-nation alliance of despots. To add stupidity to deadly folly: our anti-Houthi pro-Saudi orientation is acting directly against our interests, which are supposedly focused on eliminating al Qaeda from the scene. In this instance, as in Syria, we are on the same side as al Qaeda. How does this make sense to anyone but Bibi Netanyahu?

Each time we intervene where we have no business intervening the "blowback" hits us right in the face – and provides yet another excuse for yet more intervention. It’s an endless cycle, one that won’t come to an end until and unless we rid ourselves of this succubus – this Empire – that is costing us so much.


Poster Comment:

Yemen could be one front in dream of a Sunni-Shia Thirty Years War. Let them kill each other, the only one I'm rooting for is the body count!

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#1. To: nativist nationalist (#0)

Let them kill each other, the only one I'm rooting for is the body count!

You're gonna make Justin cry.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-03-27   11:38:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: nativist nationalist (#0)

Yemen could be one front in dream of a Sunni-Shia Thirty Years War. Let them kill each other, the only one I'm rooting for is the body count!

Works for me,works for you,and even works for them.

In fact it pretty much makes everybody happy but the corporations that profit from wars and the unions that do the work in the factories.

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-03-27   12:10:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: nativist nationalist (#0)

Let them kill each other, the only one I'm rooting for is the body count!

Can't argue with that sentiment . My only caveat is someone has to guarantee safe passage and navigation through the Persian Gulf and the Gulf of Aden.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

tomder55  posted on  2015-03-27   12:39:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: TooConservative (#1)

Shias - who carry out terror attacks all the time - seem to be more sane and disciplined than the Sunni version - maybe the influence of Iran.

Pericles  posted on  2015-03-27   13:04:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Pericles, tomder55, TooConservative, liberator (#4)

Shias - who carry out terror attacks all the time - seem to be more sane and disciplined than the Sunni version - maybe the influence of Iran.

Somewhat accurate IMO. However, my observation (some of it in Iraq and in other places) is Iran uses Arab Shia to do their dirty work. They of course provide Quds to advise and train.

Not since the Iran-Iraq war have we seen many Shia Persians willingly walk across minefields and conduct suicide bombings. They let the Arabs do that.

The pendulum swing of Arabs is predictable and the Persians know it. The Arab Shia want their their help but still are suspicious of the "Persians."

That's why with Arabs sometimes they are ethnic in their approach to defense and sometimes in Islamic faction (shia or sunni). That is why when I saw overt Quds (Persian) support in Tikrit, while it did not surprise me, it did remind me there is a threshold Iraqi Arabs will tolerate even with their Shia "brothers". When and where that happens will change the relationship for years to come. Iran knows this too.

"For the Lord is our Judge, The Lord is our Lawgiver, The Lord is our King; He will save us" (Isaiah 33:22)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-03-27   13:31:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: redleghunter (#5) (Edited)

Not since the Iran-Iraq war have we seen many Shia Persians willingly walk across minefields and conduct suicide bombings. They let the Arabs do that.

I don't even know if that is true or anti-Iran propaganda. I remember the charge the Soviets used poison gas in Afghanistan - turned out the yellow rain was bee pollen or some such - but the USA made a lot of propaganda off of that.

Also the charge the Soviets boobytrapped toys - false - kids did pick up cluster bombs which kind of look like toys to kids and that was the origins of that propaganda coup.

Anyway, it maybe true the Iranians had people charge a minefield in wave attacks like in WW1 against trenches but that is not the same as walking deliberately into a minefield - it is a nuanced view of course. The Soviets used POWs and punishment battalions to clear land mines but not really walk a field for that. It is not effective. You can have people walk arm in arm and miss stepping on a mine.

Pericles  posted on  2015-03-27   13:38:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: redleghunter (#5)

That's why with Arabs sometimes they are ethnic in their approach to defense and sometimes in Islamic faction (shia or sunni). That is why when I saw overt Quds (Persian) support in Tikrit, while it did not surprise me, it did remind me there is a threshold Iraqi Arabs will tolerate even with their Shia "brothers". When and where that happens will change the relationship for years to come. Iran knows this too.

Arabs - be they Shia or Sunni - don't like taking orders from Iranians. But Shia know they need Iranian back up against the more numerous Sunnis.

It is my pet theory Iran adopted Shia Islam so they can differentiate themselves from the Arab Sunnis for the most part. They never went back to Zoroastrianism - even when the Mongols ruled when leaving Islam would have been approved by the Muslim hating Mongols. So for whatever reason Persians kept the faith of their conquerer but adopted a different version so as not to be in step with them. My pet theory anyway.

Pericles  posted on  2015-03-27   13:46:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Pericles, tomder55, TooConservative, liberator, GarySpFc (#6)

Anyway, it maybe true the Iranians had people charge a minefield in wave attacks like in WW1 against trenches but that is not the same as walking deliberately into a minefield - it is a nuanced view of course.

The Iranians during their war with Iraq did employ "Martyr Brigades." They called them that for a reason. Not just to sound scary or cool.

I'll give you Wiki on the matter as anything else would be claimed biased:

The definition of a martyr broadened further during the Iran-Iraq War from 1980 to 1988. The extremely costly and destructive war between a Sunni-controlled country (Iraq) and a Shi’a-controlled country (Iran) had several parallels with the events at Karbala, which led to further exploitation of the Iranian reverence for martyrdom. Saddam Hussein's Iraq was seen as the Sunni aggressor against the Shia people and therefore took on the role of the new Yazid in Iranian political discourse. Iranian leaders strongly emphasized the similarities between Karbala and the war with Iraq in order to retain public support for the war and keep the flow of volunteer soldiers steady.

The death toll was extraordinarily high, with over a half a million dead on the Iranian side alone. To encourage volunteers, religious leaders broadened the definition of a martyr, announcing that all fatalities of the war were to be considered martyrs for the country, and therefore for Islam.[21] Even those who did not die in battle but were wounded were called living martyrs- however this position did not bring as much social mobility as the families of those who died.[22] Additionally, Iranian leaders would manufacture parallels between the war and the events at Karbala. In one memorable example, Iranian state television reported seventy-two deaths in a particularly bloody bombing in Iran. While in reality the death toll was higher, this fabricated number matched the number of Husayn's followers who were martyred in Karbala. [23] Battles were named Karbala Two, Three, and so on.

Actors were hired to play the role of the Hidden Imam before dangerous battles, calling out to the soldiers to participate in suicide missions.[24] The promise of immediate entrance to heaven for martyrs was a key point of emphasis for Iranian leaders. In speeches, religious officials often repeated the promise of seventy-two virgins, and young men were given keys to wear around their necks that supposedly granted them instant access to heaven upon death.[25] Slogans on the soldiers’ shirts read “Imam Khomeini has given me special permission to enter Heaven.”[26] 47 For those martyred in the war who were unmarried, wedding tables were set up above their graves, a tradition that came from the death of Qassim, a companion of Husayn at Karbala who was killed just before his wedding and whose body was placed in the tent where he was intended to be married.[27] This emphasis on life after death and the comparisons to Hussein’s martyrdom, one of the most important figures in Shi’a Islam, provided the Iranian state with volunteers for their human wave attacks, where young men would attack the fronts with little or no protection.

Often martyrdom meant suicide missions on the battlefield, such as the famous example of the 13-year old boy Mohammed Hossein Fahmideh who strapped explosives to his body and ran under an Iraqi tank. Such actions were widely publicized and praised as martyrdom.

Martyrdom in Iran

"For the Lord is our Judge, The Lord is our Lawgiver, The Lord is our King; He will save us" (Isaiah 33:22)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-03-27   13:56:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: redleghunter, tomder55, TooConservative, liberator, GarySpFc (#8)

We are on the same page - the Iranians did do that. I was talking about reports Iranian kids were told to run into minefields to blow up the mines on purpose (in some accounts the kids knew it was a minefield and in other cases were lied to). Again, that may have happened but I thing the kinds of insanity the Shia did matches the report you posted.

Pericles  posted on  2015-03-27   14:01:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Pericles (#9)

We are on the same page - the Iranians did do that. I was talking about reports Iranian kids were told to run into minefields to blow up the mines on purpose (in some accounts the kids knew it was a minefield and in other cases were lied to). Again, that may have happened but I thing the kinds of insanity the Shia did matches the report you posted.

Losing so many boys/young men during that war is no doubt a deterrent for suicide attacks today. They don't have to do it. They have an Arab Shia buffer in Iraq, Lebanon and now Yemen.

"For the Lord is our Judge, The Lord is our Lawgiver, The Lord is our King; He will save us" (Isaiah 33:22)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-03-27   14:09:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: redleghunter (#10) (Edited)

The Shia are a minority in Islam but in the middle east with Iran they outnumber the Sunnis in many places.

I am not rooting for either but it seems the Shia are more like Mussolini's faction of fascists and the Sunni fundies are more like the Nazis - which means by default I rather see the Shia over the Sunni. And 9/11 ranks first in the revenge column over the hostages and Marine barracks Shia terrorism which is to be revenged secondly.

Pericles  posted on  2015-03-27   14:37:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: Pericles, tomder55 (#11)

The Shia are a minority in Islam but in the middle east with Iran they outnumber the Sunnis in many places.

It's amazing what a radical minority can do to an entire nation.

Ask Tomder55. He lived in Iran for a few years up to a few months before the Shah was overthrown.

"For the Lord is our Judge, The Lord is our Lawgiver, The Lord is our King; He will save us" (Isaiah 33:22)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-03-27   14:55:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: tomder55 (#3)

My only caveat is someone has to guarantee safe passage and navigation through the Persian Gulf and the Gulf of Aden.

There are other nations that have much more of a stake in the passage through the Red Sea, China, India, Russia and Europe, not to mention the nations of the Middle East themselves. They need to step up, we cannot afford to continue as the global sugar daddy. If we were to contribute to such an effort, our share should be the same as the percentage of merchant ships transiting the region that fly the American flag. I'm guessing that will be under one percent of the total.

nativist nationalist  posted on  2015-03-27   15:00:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: nativist nationalist, tomder55 (#13)

My only caveat is someone has to guarantee safe passage and navigation through the Persian Gulf and the Gulf of Aden.

There are other nations that have much more of a stake in the passage through the Red Sea, China, India, Russia and Europe, not to mention the nations of the Middle East themselves. They need to step up, we cannot afford to continue as the global sugar daddy. If we were to contribute to such an effort, our share should be the same as the percentage of merchant ships transiting the region that fly the American flag. I'm guessing that will be under one percent of the total.

Unlike the past - expensive oil is now good for America's emerging oil and gas extraction business via fracking. Good for Russia as well - so Russia would not mind a disrupted Persian Gulf traffic. The USA should not mind it either. The Europeans and Asians would be screwed. Of course for the USA it is a matter of being king of the hill over other concerns.

Pericles  posted on  2015-03-27   15:13:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: redleghunter, tomder55, TooConservative (#12) (Edited)

One of the worst things the USA ever did - something that destroyed America's empire if I may be so bold - is the loss of Iran. Carter should have initiated a draft - asked congress for the power to declare war and invade, occupy and install the Shah's son. He would have been re-elected in a landlside and his war would have been justified by international law and be a just war. It would have healed America as well after Vietnam - yes sometimes wars heal like the Spanish American war healed the USA after the Civil War. And ensured a Democratic lock on govt for 2 decades at least.

The USA would have had local Iranian allies in the millions also.

The USSR would have actually stood back - in the way the Russians think - they would be allowed a free hand in Afghanistan and if I was president I would have allowed the USSR a free hand in Afghanistan (worthless chunk) for a free American hand in Iran - all who think the USA resisting the USSR in Afghanistan was worth it even under Reagan are deluding themselves.

With Iran under America's thumb again with most of the Shah's old regime reformed so not to give an excuse to uprise the USA would be sitting pretty right now. Osama Bin Laden would be building stuff in Saudi Arabia and having wive problems rather than going on a jihad journey.

Pericles  posted on  2015-03-27   15:22:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: Pericles (#15)

You should team up with Newt Gingrich and write one of those alternate history books.

Like the Civil War series he wrote.

"For the Lord is our Judge, The Lord is our Lawgiver, The Lord is our King; He will save us" (Isaiah 33:22)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-03-27   16:10:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: redleghunter (#8)

Actors were hired to play the role of the Hidden Imam before dangerous battles, calling out to the soldiers to participate in suicide missions.

The role of a lifetime for a Farsi bit player.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-03-27   16:51:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: TooConservative, tomder55, liberator (#17)

Actors were hired to play the role of the Hidden Imam before dangerous battles, calling out to the soldiers to participate in suicide missions.

The role of a lifetime for a Farsi bit player.

Somehow I don't think the speeches were as rousing as this:

"For the Lord is our Judge, The Lord is our Lawgiver, The Lord is our King; He will save us" (Isaiah 33:22)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-03-27   17:10:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: Pericles (#15)

One of the worst things the USA ever did - something that destroyed America's empire if I may be so bold - is the loss of Iran. Carter should have initiated a draft - asked congress for the power to declare war and invade, occupy and install the Shah's son. He would have been re-elected in a landlside and his war would have been justified by international law and be a just war.

and the Iranian people would've erected a atatue of him in Azidi Square . And if the emperor had supported the Green Revolution then perhaps we would be rid of the delusional 12ers in Tehran. Life is full of missed opportunities. Suppose we hadn't pushed the boundaries of NATO to the Russian border ,and assisted Yeltzin .....maybe no Tsar Vlad .

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

tomder55  posted on  2015-03-27   18:04:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: redleghunter (#16)

You should team up with Newt Gingrich and write one of those alternate history books.

Like the Civil War series he wrote.

Gingrich was wrong of course .If Lee had moved his army east between Meade's Army and Maryland/Washington ,Gingrixh claims he may have forced Meade to attack him at a defensive position of his choosing . But there was no real urgency for Meade to attack aggressively at that point (except perhaps pressure from Washington). If Lee had done as Gingrich suggested ,he would've cut himself off from his supply line ,or extended it beyond reason (food was plentiful ...ammo not so much ).He was not Sherman marching through Georgia .He would risk getting attacked from the rear by the Washington Garrison as Meade lay siege to Lee's defensive position. Or Meade could've maneuvered into a more favorable position. Once Lee did as Longstreet suggested he would've ceded the initiative ;something he could not afford to do. The longer he stayed in the North ,the more vulnerable he would've become. He knew that, and that was one of the main reasons he pursued the offensive at Gettysburg.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

tomder55  posted on  2015-03-27   18:22:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: tomder55 (#19) (Edited)

and the Iranian people would've erected a atatue of him in Azidi Square . And if the emperor had supported the Green Revolution then perhaps we would be rid of the delusional 12ers in Tehran.

No, as we see in Syria it would not work. I don't buy the color coded American revolutions bullshit. Under Carter there was a military and a security system that would have made sure America's occupation went well. If we overthrow the Mullahs now we get an Iran that has a democracy that also wants to have nukes and is still hostile to America as a middle eastern meddler.

Pericles  posted on  2015-03-27   18:23:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Pericles (#21)

If we overthrow the Mullahs now we get an Iran that has a democracy that also wants to have nukes and is still hostile to America as a middle eastern meddler.

That presumes a military assistance .I was not suggesting that . It did not take US military intervention to topple the Mubarak regime.....just the emperor planting the seed . Supporting Iran's real opposition could keep Iran from becoming the first jihadist nuclear power. Another lost opportunity . I suggest that supporting the opposition movement in Iran is the only viable option between military intervention and acceptance of the hegemony of a nuclear Iran.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

tomder55  posted on  2015-03-27   19:14:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: tomder55 (#22) (Edited)

I suggest that supporting the opposition movement in Iran is the only viable option between military intervention and acceptance of the hegemony of a nuclear Iran.

Why would they be pro American? And why would they not want nukes?

Pericles  posted on  2015-03-27   20:25:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: Pericles (#23)

Why would they be pro American? And why would they not want nukes?

Didn't say they would be ,although there is anecdotal evidence that the people of Iran aren't nearly as hostile to the US as the regime is. I did not even say they wouldn't want nukes. That is the unknown.

What I am saying is that the negotiations are failing . The emperor by all accounts is going to make a deal with the homicidal apocalyptic 12ers that at best will delay their ambitions of being a nuclear state by a few years . I personally think they will start violating that agreement before the ink is dry as that has been their M.O.

Under the assumption that regime change is then the best alternative to preventing the Iranian nuke ,the next decision is how to get that result. Given the choice of military intervention or supporting the domestic opposition ,I would choose supporting the opposition. The one sure way to ensure that the people "hate " the US would be a military attack .

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

tomder55  posted on  2015-03-28   6:30:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: tomder55 (#24)

I am not freaked by a nuclear Iran.

Pericles  posted on  2015-03-28   8:27:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: Pericles (#25)

I am not freaked by a nuclear Iran.

perhaps you should reconsider . There are already signs of an eventual proliferation . The Saudi's, Turks ,and Egypt are already hinting that they would also pursue nukes if the Iran program isn't checked .

I do not believe that either the Shia or Sunnis would be deterred by the thought of MAD .

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

tomder55  posted on  2015-03-28   10:40:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: tomder55 (#26)

perhaps you should reconsider . There are already signs of an eventual proliferation . The Saudi's, Turks ,and Egypt are already hinting that they would also pursue nukes if the Iran program isn't checked .

I do not believe that either the Shia or Sunnis would be deterred by the thought of MAD .

Then why are we allowing Sharia law Pakistan and reincarnation believing Hindu India to have nukes?

Pericles  posted on  2015-03-28   11:23:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: redleghunter (#5)

I notice Likudnik Freepers and conservatives actively cheering al-Qaeda Nusra Front winning a battle against Assad and praising Saudis taking on the Houthis. Neither the Syrians nor the Houthis are pro American but the Israeli Likudnik wing of America's politics hate and fear Iran more.

Pericles  posted on  2015-03-28   22:49:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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