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Source: nytimes.com/ URL Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/26/w ... 6E65&gwt=pay&assetType=nyt_now Published: Mar 25, 2015 Author: NICOLA CLARK and DAN BILEFSKY Post Date: 2015-03-25 19:53:14 by Pericles Keywords: None Views: 12913 Comments: 57 Pilot Was Locked Out of Cockpit Before France Crash By NICOLA CLARK and DAN BILEFSKY 21 minutes ago As officials struggled to explain why a jet with 150 people on board crashed, an investigator said evidence indicated that one pilot left the cockpit before the plane’s descent and was unable to get back in. Click for Full Text! Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread   Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest Comments (1-17) not displayed.       .       .       . #18. To: GrandIsland, TooConservative (#14) (Edited) The safeguard in the USA is enough - always have a replacement enter cockpit. I am kind of shocked flight engineers are gone now? It is just pilot and co- pilot. In a few years it will be pilot standby and computers will fly and land plane. Pericles  posted on  2015-03-27   10:52:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #19. To: TooConservative, redleghunter, CZ82, Bob Celeste, Vicomte13, Deckard, Soner, A K A Stone, etal (#15) From the above Listverse link: (snip) Most recently, in 2012, JetBlue Airways Flight 191 made headlines after the pilot went crazy during the flight and started ranting about Jesus, terrorists, and 9/11. Isn't that a supposed typical day at LF?? Is it just me, or was that pilot NOT "crazy," but actually quite sane? Ok...Which one of us was THE pilot at JetBlue?? Heh.... Liberator  posted on  2015-03-27   10:53:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #20. To: Liberator (#19) Isn't that a supposed typical day at LF?? It would be if the pilot went crazy and was subdued by a passenger who happened to be a cop who pistolwhipped him unconcious and then handcuffed him and shot in the back five times, claiming self-defense. So, no, this incident was not quite up to our usual high LF standards. Tooconservative  posted on  2015-03-27   10:56:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #21. To: TooConservative (#20) The perp would have had it coming... Pericles  posted on  2015-03-27   10:59:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #22. To: Pericles, Liberator (#21) Thank goodness Liberator showed up to calm down this thread which had really gotten out of hand.     : ) Tooconservative  posted on  2015-03-27   11:00:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #23. To: Pericles (#7) (Edited) Looks like it was a depressed/suicidal German co-pilot - no evidence he was a Muslim convert. Maybe he was BOTH. "No evidence"?? That wasn't the case yesterday. What's changed?? (I mean besides the usual and expected denials after the initial facts and revelations were leaked?) This German Muzzie convert and frequent Mosque visitor met ALL the clinical personal profiles and guidelines of a mass murderer, and was...A MUZZIE. I don't care how many media/"official" revisions of the initial reports are now buried, denied, or attributed as "false." Liberator  posted on  2015-03-27   11:01:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #24. To: TooConservative (#20) It would be if the pilot went crazy and was subdued by a passenger who happened to be a cop who pistolwhipped him unconcious and then handcuffed him and shot in the back five times, claiming self-defense. So, no, this incident was not quite up to our usual high LF standards. I agree. Close, but no cigar. Tempting, but without the additional, obligatory shooting of dog, LF's highest criteria has NOT been met. :-( Liberator  posted on  2015-03-27   11:05:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #25. To: TooConservative (#22) Heh... (Is it me, or has the usual insanity been kicked up a notch lately?) Liberator  posted on  2015-03-27   11:06:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #26. To: Liberator (#19) FWIK, that pilot didn't lock himself in the cockpit and drive the plane into a mountain. "For the Lord is our Judge, The Lord is our Lawgiver, The Lord is our King; He will save us" (Isaiah 33:22) redleghunter  posted on  2015-03-27   11:06:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #27. To: Liberator (#23) Maybe he was BOTH. "No evidence"?? That wasn't the case yesterday. What's changed?? (I mean besides the usual and expected denials after the initial facts and revelations leaked? I have no idea where we have a credible source stating he was a Muslim other than something written on Gatewaypundit as click bait. Pericles  posted on  2015-03-27   11:06:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #28. To: Liberator (#23) "No evidence"?? That wasn't the case yesterday. What's changed?? (I mean besides the usual and expected denials after the initial facts and revelations were leaked?) He had six months off for depression during his State-side training in 2009. His fiancee recently broke up with him. And apparently they found a certificate on his medical condition torn up in his apartment, supposedly taking effect on the day he crashed the plane. The details aren't all in just yet. I haven't seen an iota of Islam around this guy's history. Just some rumors by some of the biggest rumormongers on the internet. Tooconservative  posted on  2015-03-27   11:11:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #29. To: TooConservative (#28) He had six months off for depression during his State-side training in 2009. His fiancee recently broke up with him. And?? As though depression is rare? As are fiancee break-ups? (was his with a man or woman?) And apparently they found a certificate on his medical condition torn up in his apartment, supposedly taking effect on the day he crashed the plane. The details aren't all in just yet. Very convenient. As a proud LF/LP/FR conspiracist, I'm going to discount and dismiss such "details" as misdirection and disinformation. I haven't seen an iota of Islam around this guy's history. Just some rumors by some of the biggest rumormongers on the internet. With all due respect, this act perpetrated by this guy is a signature of Islamic terrorism and radicalism. In other words, "If it quacks like a duck...." This guy's "history" is already being scrubbed (Facebook: POOF!! GONE!) and massaged by the authoritahs. In its place, a new, improved, exclusive profile and history solely of "dark depression" and a "troubled life." Liberator  posted on  2015-03-27   11:44:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #30. To: Pericles (#27) (Edited) I have no idea where we have a credible source stating he was a Muslim other than something written on Gatewaypundit as click bait. Chyeah, "credible." I guess there's also NO "evidence" that Barry Hoosane 0bola isn't a Muslim either. The MSM is owned lock stock and barrel. HELLO. The brains of sooo many Sheeple to shear and manipulate....It's stunning. Liberator  posted on  2015-03-27   11:47:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #31. To: Liberator (#29) Very convenient. As a proud LF/LP/FR conspiracist, I'm going to discount and dismiss such "details" as misdirection and disinformation. What we know of him so far is coming from French prosecutors in public statements and German criminal investigators speaking off the record. Europe handles these crashes differently. There is a presumption of criminality in accidents. And if the airline is found to be derelict in removing him from service, their executives could face prison for it. This guy's "history" is already being scrubbed (Facebook: POOF!! GONE!) and massaged by the authoritahs. In its place, a new, improved, exclusive profile and history solely of "dark depression" and a "troubled life." Not wanting to ruin your fun but can you marshal even a scrap of actual evidence that he was a Muslim at all? Other than a few rumors on discredited blogs? Tooconservative  posted on  2015-03-27   11:49:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #32. To: redleghunter (#26) FWIK, that pilot didn't lock himself in the cockpit and drive the plane into a mountain. You mean the co-pilot, right? So...what's the new narrative? Liberator  posted on  2015-03-27   11:49:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #33. To: TooConservative (#31) Not wanting to ruin your fun but can you marshal even a scrap of actual evidence that he was a Muslim at all? Other than a few rumors on discredited blogs? You mean leaks and info from secondhand sources don't count because MSNBC/CNN/FOX didn't confirm? You know what I also find fascinating? Just how many conservative blogs and online sources are "discredited"....when the subject matter is Barry 0bola. And just how much collusion and corruption there is within the mainstream media outlets and gubmints. Look -- the French or German authoritahs are NEVER going to reveal the true nature of this case -- that the perp was a Muslim. Now I know and understand you need an "official report" that supports that claim. Politically, it would set off an unprecedented sh*tstorm of violence. THAT is the bottom line. Liberator  posted on  2015-03-27   11:57:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #34. To: TooConservative, all (#31) Another link to ponder (before IT gets removed): http://stthomasaquinasversusnasa.blogspot.com/2015/03/muslim-convert-co-pilot-andreas-gunter.html Make what you will of it. It was said that Lubitz had a Muslim girlfriend. It is unclear if she was still dating Lubitz at the time of the crash. It is unclear if he met the woman through his Muslims friends. One said that Lubitz had broken off the relationship after he pledged to commit Jihad for Allah. We do know that Lubitz trained at the Lufthansa Flight Training School in Bremen, Germany. Bremen is home to the Mosque Masjidu-l-Furqan Mosque: This Mosque was raided by the police in December 2014 BERLIN, Dec 5 (KUNA) — German authorities have closed a mosque in the northern city of Bremen, after it was accused of encouraging youth to join the extremist Islamic State group (known as ISIL), which is carrying out violent killings across Syria and Iraq. In unprecedented circumstances, more than 100 German police personnel carried out a search of Masjidu-l-Furqan and its accompanying cultural office, which had both been under police radar since 2007. The decision comes amid the fight against ISIL ideology, Bremen Interior Secretary Ulrich Maurer said, accusing the mosque’s management of promoting ISIL values and encouraging young Muslims in the city to travel to Syria and Iraq, and join the ranks of the group, along with Al-Nusra Front – another extremist group in Syria. The centre have so far succeeded in inspiring a total eight men, seven women and 11 juveniles to travel to Syria and join ISIL, according to the official. Lubitz did his time in Bremen when the Mosque was under surveillance. During his training Lubitz took a break - a several month break: Carsten Spohr, CEO of Germanwings parent company, said in a press conference today that Lubitz "took a break in his training six years ago. Then he did the tests (technical and psychological) again. And he was deemed 100 percent fit to fly." "I am not able to state the reasons why he took the break for several months [Was it because Lubitz converted to Islam during his break?] Reason that pushed Lubitz over the edge? The raid on the Mosque in Breman this past December? The Police say they found a significant discovery in his home - not a suicide note: Police investigating the Germanwings crash said they had made a 'significant discovery' at the home of co-pilot Andreas Lubitz, who deliberately ploughed the Airbus A320 into the French Alps. Officers refused to reveal details of the potential breakthrough but said it was not a suicide note. Speaking outside the flat on the outskirts of Dusseldorf, police said they had 'found something' that would now be taken for tests, adding it may be a 'clue' as to what happened to the doomed jet. Is the significant discovery something Islamic? Something on his computer? A Koran? Muslim prayer rug? Liberator  posted on  2015-03-27   12:11:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #35. To: TooConservative, Liberator (#28) I haven't seen an iota of Islam around this guy's history. Just some rumors by some of the biggest rumormongers on the internet. I agree and I would blame Islam in a heart beat - I am not exactly a defender of their religion and think what the Serbs did to the Muslims was fine and dandy. Not every bad thing on earth is Islam's fault. Sometimes it's just some nut off his meds. Pericles  posted on  2015-03-27   12:21:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #36. To: Pericles (#35) "You shall not bear false witness" is a commandment. Liars are sentenced to the Lake of Fire at the end. I can speculate about Islam like anyone else. In fact, I was "morally certain" of it in the Oklahoma City Bombing, and in those theater killings, and charged out there with accusations, without the facts. And I was wrong. Dead wrong. Both times. I was ready to join a lynch mob and I did make false accusations. I was SO VERY CERTAIN. And I was SO VERY WRONG. From these experiences, I have learned to withhold judgment until I know the facts. If I never have the facts, then I can never judge the case. That's fine. God sees all and knows all. Nobody ever gets away with anything. My saying "I don't know: awaiting developments" does not harm anything and is not wrong: it's honest; it's true. My saying "It's Islam!" is not true. I don't know that. It's not honest. It doesn't matter how "morally certain" I am. I've been morally certain twice before and dead wrong both times. I don't intend to make it a threefer. I don't know. If it was Islam, the National Front in France just picked up some major tailwind. If it was not, then Muslims are getting shit for something a Muslim didn't do, and that's wrong. Vicomte13  posted on  2015-03-27   12:55:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #37. To: Vicomte13, Liberator (#36) It's like the Katyn Forrest massacre of Polish officers by the Soviets. It was blamed on the Germans. The Nazis were bad guys - outright mass murderers - but they did not do that crime in question. Pericles  posted on  2015-03-27   12:59:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #38. To: Liberator (#32) I meant the nut on the Jet Blue flight you referenced. He was raving but did not do something stupid. "For the Lord is our Judge, The Lord is our Lawgiver, The Lord is our King; He will save us" (Isaiah 33:22) redleghunter  posted on  2015-03-27   13:10:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #39. To: Vicomte13 (#36) "You shall not bear false witness" is a commandment. Liars are sentenced to the Lake of Fire at the end. So according to you, 2+2 = ?? No, your analogy fall flat. I am not knowingly "lying" OR "bearing false witness." Yes, I am speculating, but based on strong circumstantial and initial reports (that you and many other find un-compelling or "official"), including profiling, tendencies, and the chronic lying of so-called "official reports." Till this day, only Muslim pilots plunge airplane into buildings, the sea, and mountains. Ergo, based upon all of the above factors, the odds are overwhelming that the perp is...a Muslim. So -- would you have believed the "official" accounts of the Romans regarding Jesus guilt? Or the Pharisees? Before you lecture me on the Lake of Fire, get the log out of your own eye, Brother. You've recently been indicting EVERY SINGLE REPUBLICAN LEGISLATOR as derelict in their duty and obligation. That's not only impossible, but technically...a lie. Liberator  posted on  2015-03-27   13:25:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #40. To: Liberator, Vicomte13 (#39) "You shall not bear false witness" is a commandment. Liars are sentenced to the Lake of Fire at the end. So according to you, 2+2 = ?? No, your analogy fall flat. I am not knowingly "lying" OR "bearing false witness." Yes, I am speculating, but based on strong circumstantial and initial reports (that you and many other find un-compelling or "official"), including profiling, tendencies, and the chronic lying of so-called "official reports." Till this day, only Muslim pilots plunge airplane into buildings, the sea, and mountains. Ergo, based upon all of the above factors, the odds are overwhelming that the perp is...a Muslim. So -- would you have believed the "official" accounts of the Romans regarding Jesus guilt? Or the Pharisees? Before you lecture me on the Lake of Fire, get the log out of your own eye, Brother. You've recently been indicting EVERY SINGLE REPUBLICAN LEGISLATOR as derelict in their duty and obligation. That's not only impossible, but technically...a lie. One of the bad things about the internet, Liberator, is that there are a lot of false stuff on there pretending to be news, etc. Pericles  posted on  2015-03-27   13:29:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #41. To: redleghunter (#38) I meant the nut on the Jet Blue flight you referenced. He was raving but did not do something stupid. EXACTAMUNDO. Apparently, some maligning narrator with an obvious agenda have warped compulsion to toss into the same bushel some PO'd guy who was "ranting about Jesus, terrorists, and 9/11" aboard a plane....with actual, murderous terrorists. Liberator  posted on  2015-03-27   13:30:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #42. To: Liberator, redleghunter (#41) Apparently, some maligning narrator with an obvious agenda have warped compulsion to toss into the same bushel some PO'd guy who was "ranting about Jesus, terrorists, and 9/11" aboard a plane....with actual, murderous terrorists. OK, terrorists have a political agenda they are trying to win on via terrorism. Being the victim of a crazy person is terrifying but it is not terrorism. Pericles  posted on  2015-03-27   13:34:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #43. To: Pericles (#40) One of the bad things about the internet, Liberator, is that there are a lot of false stuff on there pretending to be news, etc. And conversely, one of the good things about the internet is completely bypassing the lies and political memes of the MSM. Much of what IS reported on the major Tee-Bee news networks and mainstream media outlets is NOT "news," but propaganda and lies of omission. You mean you don't already know that? In the case of this mass murdering co-pilot, it's not hard to do the math; advancing political agendas, a New World Order, and collecting 30+ pieces of silver are more important than the truth. It's been the case for a long time, whether it's been Jesus Christ or 9/11. Liberator  posted on  2015-03-27   13:36:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #44. To: Pericles, redleghunter (#42) OK, terrorists have a political agenda they are trying to win on via terrorism. Being the victim of a crazy person is terrifying but it is not terrorism. True dat. Liberator  posted on  2015-03-27   13:41:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #45. To: Liberator (#39) No, your analogy fall flat. I am not knowingly "lying" OR "bearing false witness." Maybe YOU'RE not bearing false witness, but if I said "A Muslim did it", I would be. I do not know that a Muslim did it. I have no basis to say that other than suspicion, and that is not good enough for me to make such an accusation. I am very interested to know what his religion was, and what his religious belief set was. I am interested to know details about his ethnicity and his acquaintances. Very, very interested. I will not be surprised to find Islam or atheism there or insane right wing nationalism in there. Not in the least. But that does not allow me to positively assert "He is a Muslim". If I were to do that, I would be bearing false witness, because I don't know it. My purpose in doing it would be to attack Islam for yet another crime against humanity. There are plenty of REAL Muslim abominations. It will not do for me to make up additional ones. Vicomte13  posted on  2015-03-27   13:41:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #46. To: Pericles (#40) One of the bad things about the internet, Liberator, is that there are a lot of false stuff on there pretending to be news, etc. I'm glad you agree with me -- wholeheartedly, and avidly apparently. #5. To: TooConservative, Fred Mertz (#2) (Edited) I think a lot of people did not buy the State Dept/EU narrative on Ukraine - their first reaction is to think that Russia - stumble bums in propaganda - had somehow undermined the American message? - I mean we had those hipster State Dept spokeswomen doing Twitter hastags for the Kiev Nazis and being laughed and clearly that was the KGB doing that? - lol. Either they actually think their message was short circuted by professional trolls (like the State Dept does not have similar services) or this is an excuse to cover the USA ramping up their own propaganda effort as cover. There is a troll gap!!!! Pericles  posted on  2015-03-27   12:52:57 ET And...how about those "professional trolls"? Good thing none reside at this forum. Liberator  posted on  2015-03-27   13:48:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #47. To: Liberator (#46) Pericles posted on 2015-03-27 12:52:57 ET And...how about those "professional trolls"? Good thing none reside at this forum. Pro trolls post on newspaper comment sections and forums with lots of clickers. To be a professional troll here is a waste of time and money. Pericles  posted on  2015-03-27   13:57:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #48. To: Vicomte13 (#45) (Edited) But that does not allow me to positively assert "He is a Muslim". If I were to do that, I would be bearing false witness, because I don't know it. Don't we positively "know" many things that we've never seen? Would you vouch 100% for you wife or kids or best friend in a court of law -- even though it's impossible to be with them 24/7? Of course you would. Every fiber of my body and mind "knows" he is a Muslim. Call it instinct, a strong gut feeling, profiling, consideration of what evidence and trickled info is available. That said, if it turns out that irrefutable evidence never sees the light of day, it STILL doesn't make me a liar. A liar knowingly promotes a falsehood without regard of any fact. Sometimes we don't need Geraldo, FOX, CNN, or the US State Dept to confirm what appears to be the obvious. I am very interested to know what his religion was, and what his religious belief set was. The officials differ. They claim it's not relevant (for some odd reason.) There are plenty of REAL Muslim abominations. It will not do for me to make up additional ones. The lack of eyewitness account who step forward or discarded or manipulation of evidence as missing burdens of proof only apply in a court of law. I will not be surprised to find Islam or atheism there or insane right wing nationalism in there. Not in the least. Odds: Muslim: 98% Atheist: 1.5% Insane right wing nationalist: .05% So perhaps technically, you're right in your assessment ;-) BUT, understandable given your profession. Liberator  posted on  2015-03-27   14:02:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #49. To: Pericles (#47) Still, I enjoyed your rant against state-sponsored lies and propaganda (in support of political agendas :-) To be a professional troll here is a waste of time and money. At just $.01 per post, somewhere there may just be a very rich ex-poster from LP, smoking cubans and soaking in a hotub in an igloo. Liberator  posted on  2015-03-27   14:06:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #50. To: Liberator (#48) Would you vouch 100% for you wife or kids or best friend in a court of law -- even though it's impossible to be with them 24/7? Of course you would. It would depend what I am vouching for. I would vouch for what I know and see. I would say that it would be completely out of character for, say, my wife to have bought and gun and shot somebody through the head. Unless I was being asked about things that maybe WOULD be in character, in which case I would claim things like spousal privilege or use other maneuvers to avoid having to answer the question. I would not outright lie in a court of law, provided I considered the court to be lawful, or even if I did, provided that the range of penalties, etc., was not important enough to matter. Example; I would not lie to a Third Reich traffic court, because even if I was convicted of parking wrong, it'd be a ticket fine, nothing more. Despicable regimes are not despicable in EVERY way. If I were a visitor in North Korea, I would not steal subway rides even if I could. I'd pay for them normally. On the other hand, if I were put under sworn oath in a Third Reich court to denounce my neighbors as Jews, and I knew they WERE Jews but my testimony was needed, I would take the oath, and then I would lie through my teeth in as artful and believable way as possible. I would not allow my honor to be used against be by evil people in such a way to be able to lynch and destroy somebody else whom I knew to be innocent of a crime. I would perjure myself "before God" and assume that in war God has always permitted deceit of the enemy as a tactic. I would assume that God would forgive me for intentionally breaking a commandment in order to save the lives of others, and would not condemn me for being a liar. And if I were wrong, and condemned by Jesus at the end for the lie, I would consider him unjust, because he would be. But he isn't, so in fact I would not worry for a moment about having lied under oath in an evil court ruled by evil killers. I would not, in fact, even feel any particular need to confess it, because I do not consider it a sin to lie to killers who manipulate a system. You can't stick a gun in my face and put me under oath and bind me before heaven to tell you the truth so that you can do more evil. In such a case, God has released me from the obligation to not bear false witness, and I may, in fact, bear as much false witness as a I need to, because this is not really a court, it's the battlefield in a war, and it is licit before God to deceive the enemy on the battlefield. I'd prefer not to have to fight, but if you make me, then you're evil and I don't have to be honest to you on the battlefield. I can deceive you in order to defeat you. In THIS case, though, of the pilot, I'm not under oath. I do not know, and I don't have a way to know. I'm interested in the facts, but I won't prejudge the case. In a regular situation, if my wife or child were, say, accused of drowning a baby and I thought they had actually done it, I would have sought to discern the truth long before, and if I thought they had done it, I wouldn't lie under oath to let them get away with it, no. In other words: it all depends on the situation. There's no "one size fits all answer". The Christians who refused to drink the libation to the Emperor and let their children be torn apart by lions were martyrs, to be sure, and rewarded by God. But the Christians who, faced with that, lied, poured out the libation, saved their families, and then later asked for forgiveness from God were ALSO readmitted to the Church. I would have been one of the latter, if pushed to the wall. I would not let evil people slaughter my family to refuse mouthing words that I didn't believe. I'd mouth their words and lie to them and pretend that the Emperor was God, and it would be a battlefield tactic: deceiving the enemy to live to fight another day. There would be Christians who would condemn me for it. And there would be God who would forgive me for it. And I care what He thinks. Of course if he appeared to me and sent an angel to tell me to tell the truth and cause everybody to be killed, I'd do that. In the absence of a direct order from God to do it, though, I would treat the threat as the battlefield gesture of an enemy, and in war, God permits you to lie to your enemy all the time in order to defeat him. Deception is a legitimate battlefield tactic of the people of God. The Jews used it all the time in the Scripture, and Christians may use it in life and death confrontations with evil people trying to kill them. In the case of peace, though, where nobody is threatening to feed me or my daughter to the lions if I don't pretend to something, then being deceptive is not ok. It's not war, and in peace lying is not a legitimate tactic. I agree that you're not lying when you say that the pilot was a Muslim. You're morally certain of it. I'm not morally certain of it. I've been burnt before when I convinced myself that people I hated were guilty, because it's what they'd do. When they turned out not to have done it, I was abashed. Here, I don't know. And not knowing, I can't say that I do. I don't know, even that the pilot committed murder suicide. He was breathing normally, they say. Perhaps he had a toxic shock or a brain aneuryism and was mentally incapacitated, quiescent, and breathing normally while in fact mentally fogged. I don't know. I'm going to wait and see what comes out. Then I'll decide if I believe it. Vicomte13  posted on  2015-03-27   15:39:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #51. To: Vicomte13, Liberator (#45) Maybe YOU'RE not bearing false witness, but if I said "A Muslim did it", I would be. Unless Liberator was the (heretofore) sole unknown survivor of this airliner crash, he isn't any kind of witness either. Unless someone has changed the definition of "witness" and "false witness" recently. We can only gather evidence now. The witnesses are all dead. Tooconservative  posted on  2015-03-27   17:00:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #52. To: TooConservative, Liberator (#51) (Edited) Unless Liberator was the (heretofore) sole unknown survivor of this airliner crash, he isn't any kind of witness either. Unless someone has changed the definition of "witness" and "false witness" recently. We can only gather evidence now. The witnesses are all dead. Ok. I'm going to withdraw from this particular discussion, and I have no desire to get into a furrball with either of you gentlemen over this one. I really don't know what happened. It's a puzzle. And I really don't want to fight with either one of you. I kind of hope that the copilot suffered a physical collapse that left him breathing but unresponsive, and that he wasn't a mass murderer. But if that's the case, I really wish that God had not chosen to impose that on him THERE. It's quite a terrible way to teach people that the "security" of a locked cabin door is death for all in a different circumstances. Which is more likely, a medical calamity or a terrorist attack? Vicomte13  posted on  2015-03-27   18:23:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #53. To: Vicomte13 (#52) I kind of hope that the copilot suffered a physical collapse that left him breathing but unresponsive, and that he wasn't a mass murderer. He set the autopilot altitude manually for 100 feet in a mountainous region. He overrode the door lock. He was a mass murderer. Which is more likely, a medical calamity or a terrorist attack? Based on evidence we have, he was a mass murderer. A suicide that took 150 others down with him. There are some hints that the evidence seized from his apartment had some bad medical diagnosis, one that would end his flying career or even that he had a fatal illness. Tooconservative  posted on  2015-03-27   19:38:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #54. To: Vicomte13 (#52) Yahoo News, today: Duesseldorf (Germany) (AFP) - The Germanwings co-pilot who crashed his Airbus into the French Alps, killing all 150 aboard, hid a serious illness from the airline, prosecutors said Friday amid reports he was severely depressed. The black box voice recorder indicates that Andreas Lubitz, 27, locked his captain out of the cockpit on Tuesday and deliberately flew Flight 4U 9525 into a mountainside, French officials say, in what appears to have been a case of suicide and mass murder. French Prime Minister Manuel Valls said that all the signs were "pointing towards an act that we can't describe: criminal, crazy, suicidal". German prosecutors revealed that searches of Lubitz's homes netted "medical documents that suggest an existing illness and appropriate medical treatment", including "torn-up and current sick leave notes, among them one covering the day of the crash". They did not specify the illness. But Bild daily earlier reported that Lubitz sought psychiatric help for "a bout of serious depression" in 2009 and was still getting assistance from doctors, quoting documents from Germany's air transport regulator. The paper also cited security sources as saying that Lubitz and his girlfriend were having a "serious crisis in their relationship" that left him distraught. Lufthansa CEO Carsten Spohr said that Lubitz had suspended his pilot training, which began in 2008, "for a certain period", before restarting and qualifying for the Airbus A320 in 2013. According to Bild, those setbacks were linked to "depression and anxiety attacks". His doctor was writing him medical excuses to miss work and he was tearing them up. I think this incident will likely end medical privacy for pilots in Europe. Tooconservative  posted on  2015-03-27   19:53:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #55. To: TooConservative (#54) If true, it should probably end medical privacy for pilots everywhere. Vicomte13  posted on  2015-03-27   20:15:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #56. To: Pericles, Liberator, Vicomte13 (#40) Weekly Standard, not exactly shy to expose any Muslim as a terrorist, debunks the copilot-converted-to-Islam rumors still circulating. The Germanwings Co-pilot’s Non-Existent ‘Muslim Conversion’ Blogs and social media has been abuzz with talk of a supposed “German news report” indicating that Andreas Lubitz, the co-pilot of Germanwings flight 9525, was a Muslim convert. In fact, there is no such report. The rumor that Lubitz converted to Islam got started on the German site Politically Incorrect. In the American blogosphere, Politically Incorrect is being cited as a “German news website.” It is not a news site, however, but rather is an overtly anti-Islamic blog/forum. The confusion apparently arose from the site’s url: www.pi-news.net. Given the orientation of the site and reports that Germanwings 9525 was intentionally crashed by the co-pilot, it is hardly surprising that commentators on Politically Incorrect would speculate about whether Lubitz was a Muslim. Reference was made in particular to a blog post by a site regular named Michael Mannheimer. Mannheimer’s post contains no evidence that Lubitz was a Muslim convert, but just more speculation. Mannheimer’s conjecture is based on such apparently suspicious details as the fact that Lubitz did flight training in Bremen and Bremen is also home to a mosque known for its radicalism. In fairness to Politically Incorrect, it should be noted that several commentators on the site have themselves rejected the speculations in Mannheimer’s post as unfounded, including one who remarked that he “must have been very drunk” when he wrote it. Related American posts have also made reference to newly minted Facebook pages celebrating Lubitz in an Islamist vein. But of obviously greater relevance is Lubitz’s own Facebook page. That page has been taken down, but a Google cache of the entry page (i.e. without timeline entries) is still available here. It contains no trace of any interest in Islam. It does, however, feature the now famous photo of Lubitz posing in front of the Golden State Bridge, as well as a banner photo of New York’s Times Square. Lubitz is known to have done training and travelled in the United States, and it is clear from his Facebook page that he was an admirer of the country. This hardly fits the standard profile of an Islamist – no more so than Lubitz’s evident enthusiasm for techno musicians like the French DJ/producer David Guetta. We will undoubtedly learn more about Lubitz’s life in the days and weeks to come. But the supposed “German news report” does not exist and for the moment, there is no reason whatsoever to believe that he was a Muslim convert. Tooconservative  posted on  2015-03-28   15:22:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #57. To: TooConservative (#56) Is this still a rumour? Pericles  posted on  2015-03-28   17:51:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest

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