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New Discovery! 2023 Hottest in over 120 Million Years 2024 and beyond in prophecy Questions Status: Not Logged In; Sign In International News See other International News Articles Title: Germanwings Pilot Was Locked Out of Cockpit Before Crash in France (Terrorism?) Source: nytimes.com/ URL Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/26/w ... 6E65&gwt=pay&assetType=nyt_now Published: Mar 25, 2015 Author: NICOLA CLARK and DAN BILEFSKY Post Date: 2015-03-25 19:53:14 by Pericles Keywords: None Views: 12292 Comments: 57 Pilot Was Locked Out of Cockpit Before France Crash By NICOLA CLARK and DAN BILEFSKY 21 minutes ago As officials struggled to explain why a jet with 150 people on board crashed, an investigator said evidence indicated that one pilot left the cockpit before the plane’s descent and was unable to get back in. Click for Full Text! Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread   Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest Comments (1-6) not displayed.       .       .       . #7. To: Stoner, TooConservative (#5) Looks like it was a depressed/suicidal German co-pilot - no evidence he was a Muslim convert. I am shocked it was a 2 man cockpit and that Europe did not have the occupancy rule. Pericles  posted on  2015-03-26   12:55:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #8. To: Pericles (#7) Looks like it was a depressed/suicidal German co-pilot - no evidence he was a Muslim convert. Stop trying to ruin this for us all.     : ) That said, this has to be such a heartbreaker for the families. An ordinary crash is just an accident, this is a mass murder of helpless people. Tooconservative  posted on  2015-03-26   13:03:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #9. To: TooConservative (#8) (Edited) That said, this has to be such a heartbreaker for the families. An ordinary crash is just an accident, this is a mass murder of helpless people. When people were talking about arming pilots after 9/11 - I pointed out pilots have had many notable cases of being bonkers and causing planes to crash on purpose - this did not sit well with Freepers who were trying to prove some 2nd amend point. This makes me question the need for pilots at all going forward. Last wee, Telsa's Musk stated in the future cars may drive themselves and humans will no longer be allowed to drive a 2 ton death machine that kills over 30K Americans a year and maims and injurs 3 times that many. We need an armed security guard on all planes. It can't add that much to ticket prices. Pericles  posted on  2015-03-26   13:08:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #10. To: Pericles (#9) We need an armed security guard on all planes. I'm not sure that would help unless the guard went to the cockpit to guard it when either pilot went to the restroom. Then you have three people with access to the cockpit. I don't look for any great immediate changes. There have been a handful of these incidents over the course of many years. Admittedly, I do still find MH370 very suspicious and one of the more credible explanations is that the pilots intended to kill everyone on the planes and make it hard to find the plane and bodies. So maybe there will be some strengthening of security measures. Given that the pilot in this German flight had tens years in and the suicidal first officer had a few years in, maybe the pilot could be given a passcode to open the door unconditionally (couldn't be blocked from the cockpit). But the five minute delay is designed to cover instances where the pilot or copilot gets taken hostage in the cabin and is forced physically to reveal his passcode. It does seem a little odd that this guy didn't seem to try to hit any ground target. He had to know the black boxes would almost certainly reveal what he had done. Tooconservative  posted on  2015-03-26   14:17:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #11. To: TooConservative (#10) (Edited) We need an emergency overide system on all planes in the coming years where by you break the glass, push the big red button and an autopilot takes over and the plane lands remotely in the nearest reachable airport while alerting authorities if we insist on having human pilots (it can be argued we can switch to autopilot and be safer). This is not scifi technology. This can be done now. This is the 6th time in 20 years a pilot (not counting 9/11) crashed their plane on purpose. That means every 3 years a purposefully crashed passenger plane by its legit pilot is statistically possible - especially as we expand the number of flights and open up the pilot profession to more people and diluting the high mental quality of the pilot pool. Pericles  posted on  2015-03-26   23:10:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #12. To: Pericles (#11) We need an emergency overide system on all planes in the coming years where by you break the glass, push the big red button and an autopilot takes over and the plane lands remotely in the nearest reachable airport while alerting authorities if we insist on having human pilots (it can be argued we can switch to autopilot and be safer). This is not scifi technology. This can be done now. This is the 6th time in 20 years a pilot (not counting 9/11) crashed their plane on purpose. That means every 3 years a purposefully crashed passenger plane by its legit pilot is statistically possible - especially as we expand the number of flights and open up the pilot profession to more people and diluting the high mental quality of the pilot pool. Even so, consider the enormity of the numbers of flights versus the relative scarcity of your 6 kamikazes over 20 years. Gunnar Garfors: 100,000 Flights a Day, 06/2014 Air Transport Action Group (ATAG) released Aviation Benefits Beyond Borders, a detailed report on the aviation industry, in April 2014. The report shows that there are 37.4 million flights scheduled in 2014! That is up 2.7% from 2013. And it means an average of 102,465 flights per day. The number of daily flights has never before passed 100,000. In 2013 we saw "only" 99,726 flights per day. 102,465 flights sound like a lot, but keep in mind that there are 49,871 routes being served globally. Some are served many times a day, others only once every two weeks or even just a few times a year. There is no sign of a decline in passenger or flight numbers either. Flying in developing markets like China, India, the Middle East and Africa is growing fast. People are making more money and seem willing to spend it on travel. I don't blame them. Given the sheer numbers of flight crews and their increase over the years, we might as well ask how it is so relatively rare to have such problems. Listverse: 10 mysterious plane crashes Tooconservative  posted on  2015-03-27   9:48:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #13. To: TooConservative (#10) (Edited) I'm not sure that would help unless the guard went to the cockpit to guard it when either pilot went to the restroom. Then you have three people with access to the cockpit. It's simple... same door. Same strength... but the lock is electrical combination, and uses a secret badge number given to just the pilot and copilot. This would keep towel heads out... and allow the pilot in to kick the dog shit out of (or shoot) the copilot, should the copilot be a selfish suicidal asshole that Hollywood celebrities love to feel sorry for at the Oscars. Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy GrandIsland  posted on  2015-03-27   9:53:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #14. To: GrandIsland, Pericles (#13) It's simple... same door. Same strength... but the lock is electrical combination, and uses a secret badge number given to just the pilot and copilot. This would keep towel heads out... and allow the pilot in to kick the dog shit out of (or shoot) the copilot, should the copilot be a selfish suicidal asshole that Hollywood celebrities love to feel sorry for at the Oscars. I'd say that each pilot should present an encrypted credential to the airliner when they board. It would contain their encrypted password. They would use this while exiting the cockpit and to re-enter it. If only pilot is in the cockpit, any sudden descents (or setting the autopilot of a bad setting like 100ft altitude in the mountains) would unlock the door automatically. The idea being that if the airliner knows there is only one pilot and a sharp descent or other mischief is evident, unlocking the door would be the lesser danger for the aircraft. Some of these big planes can autoland, not all. If there are indications onboard that there is misconduct, maybe you could have a control tower send a signal to autoland. This might go wrong though as pilots are mostly required to deal with the unusual weather and crash avoidance situations that are the main reason to have pilots any more. There are no perfect answers. I do notice that European airlines are now moving to the American policy of requiring two people in the cockpit at all times. No more Lone Rangers in the EU's cockpits, it seems. At least not on passenger flights. We're #1! We're #1! Yay, America. LOL Tooconservative  posted on  2015-03-27   10:07:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #15. To: GrandIsland, Pericles (#13) This would keep towel heads out... and allow the pilot in to kick the dog shit out of (or shoot) the copilot, should the copilot be a selfish suicidal asshole From the above Listverse link: Since the 1960s, five flights with the number “191" have ended in fatal crashes, including the worst aircraft disaster in American history: American Airlines Flight 191, which killed 273 people. Most recently, in 2012, JetBlue Airways Flight 191 made headlines after the pilot went crazy during the flight and started ranting about Jesus, terrorists, and 9/11. He was kicked out of the cockpit by the co-pilot and subdued by passengers. Later, he was put in a mental hospital. Puts another spin on cockpit security. If it was easily solved, they would have done it before now. Tooconservative  posted on  2015-03-27   10:10:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #16. To: TooConservative (#15) If it was easily solved, they would have done it before now. I doubt it. Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy GrandIsland  posted on  2015-03-27   10:23:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #17. To: TooConservative (#12) Even so, consider the enormity of the numbers of flights versus the relative scarcity of your 6 kamikazes over 20 years. Gunnar Garfors: 100,000 Flights a Day, 06/2014 That just means the victim tallies are low - but the statistics do show it will happen. Pericles  posted on  2015-03-27   10:50:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #18. To: GrandIsland, TooConservative (#14) (Edited) The safeguard in the USA is enough - always have a replacement enter cockpit. I am kind of shocked flight engineers are gone now? It is just pilot and co- pilot. In a few years it will be pilot standby and computers will fly and land plane. Pericles  posted on  2015-03-27   10:52:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #19. To: TooConservative, redleghunter, CZ82, Bob Celeste, Vicomte13, Deckard, Soner, A K A Stone, etal (#15) From the above Listverse link: (snip) Most recently, in 2012, JetBlue Airways Flight 191 made headlines after the pilot went crazy during the flight and started ranting about Jesus, terrorists, and 9/11. Isn't that a supposed typical day at LF?? Is it just me, or was that pilot NOT "crazy," but actually quite sane? Ok...Which one of us was THE pilot at JetBlue?? Heh.... Liberator  posted on  2015-03-27   10:53:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #20. To: Liberator (#19) Isn't that a supposed typical day at LF?? It would be if the pilot went crazy and was subdued by a passenger who happened to be a cop who pistolwhipped him unconcious and then handcuffed him and shot in the back five times, claiming self-defense. So, no, this incident was not quite up to our usual high LF standards. Tooconservative  posted on  2015-03-27   10:56:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #21. To: TooConservative (#20) The perp would have had it coming... Pericles  posted on  2015-03-27   10:59:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #22. To: Pericles, Liberator (#21) Thank goodness Liberator showed up to calm down this thread which had really gotten out of hand.     : ) Tooconservative  posted on  2015-03-27   11:00:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #23. To: Pericles (#7) (Edited) Looks like it was a depressed/suicidal German co-pilot - no evidence he was a Muslim convert. Maybe he was BOTH. "No evidence"?? That wasn't the case yesterday. What's changed?? (I mean besides the usual and expected denials after the initial facts and revelations were leaked?) This German Muzzie convert and frequent Mosque visitor met ALL the clinical personal profiles and guidelines of a mass murderer, and was...A MUZZIE. I don't care how many media/"official" revisions of the initial reports are now buried, denied, or attributed as "false." Liberator  posted on  2015-03-27   11:01:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #24. To: TooConservative (#20) It would be if the pilot went crazy and was subdued by a passenger who happened to be a cop who pistolwhipped him unconcious and then handcuffed him and shot in the back five times, claiming self-defense. So, no, this incident was not quite up to our usual high LF standards. I agree. Close, but no cigar. Tempting, but without the additional, obligatory shooting of dog, LF's highest criteria has NOT been met. :-( Liberator  posted on  2015-03-27   11:05:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #25. To: TooConservative (#22) Heh... (Is it me, or has the usual insanity been kicked up a notch lately?) Liberator  posted on  2015-03-27   11:06:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #26. To: Liberator (#19) FWIK, that pilot didn't lock himself in the cockpit and drive the plane into a mountain. "For the Lord is our Judge, The Lord is our Lawgiver, The Lord is our King; He will save us" (Isaiah 33:22) redleghunter  posted on  2015-03-27   11:06:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #27. To: Liberator (#23) Maybe he was BOTH. "No evidence"?? That wasn't the case yesterday. What's changed?? (I mean besides the usual and expected denials after the initial facts and revelations leaked? I have no idea where we have a credible source stating he was a Muslim other than something written on Gatewaypundit as click bait. Pericles  posted on  2015-03-27   11:06:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #28. To: Liberator (#23) "No evidence"?? That wasn't the case yesterday. What's changed?? (I mean besides the usual and expected denials after the initial facts and revelations were leaked?) He had six months off for depression during his State-side training in 2009. His fiancee recently broke up with him. And apparently they found a certificate on his medical condition torn up in his apartment, supposedly taking effect on the day he crashed the plane. The details aren't all in just yet. I haven't seen an iota of Islam around this guy's history. Just some rumors by some of the biggest rumormongers on the internet. Tooconservative  posted on  2015-03-27   11:11:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #29. To: TooConservative (#28) He had six months off for depression during his State-side training in 2009. His fiancee recently broke up with him. And?? As though depression is rare? As are fiancee break-ups? (was his with a man or woman?) And apparently they found a certificate on his medical condition torn up in his apartment, supposedly taking effect on the day he crashed the plane. The details aren't all in just yet. Very convenient. As a proud LF/LP/FR conspiracist, I'm going to discount and dismiss such "details" as misdirection and disinformation. I haven't seen an iota of Islam around this guy's history. Just some rumors by some of the biggest rumormongers on the internet. With all due respect, this act perpetrated by this guy is a signature of Islamic terrorism and radicalism. In other words, "If it quacks like a duck...." This guy's "history" is already being scrubbed (Facebook: POOF!! GONE!) and massaged by the authoritahs. In its place, a new, improved, exclusive profile and history solely of "dark depression" and a "troubled life." Liberator  posted on  2015-03-27   11:44:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #30. To: Pericles (#27) (Edited) I have no idea where we have a credible source stating he was a Muslim other than something written on Gatewaypundit as click bait. Chyeah, "credible." I guess there's also NO "evidence" that Barry Hoosane 0bola isn't a Muslim either. The MSM is owned lock stock and barrel. HELLO. The brains of sooo many Sheeple to shear and manipulate....It's stunning. Liberator  posted on  2015-03-27   11:47:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #31. To: Liberator (#29) Very convenient. As a proud LF/LP/FR conspiracist, I'm going to discount and dismiss such "details" as misdirection and disinformation. What we know of him so far is coming from French prosecutors in public statements and German criminal investigators speaking off the record. Europe handles these crashes differently. There is a presumption of criminality in accidents. And if the airline is found to be derelict in removing him from service, their executives could face prison for it. This guy's "history" is already being scrubbed (Facebook: POOF!! GONE!) and massaged by the authoritahs. In its place, a new, improved, exclusive profile and history solely of "dark depression" and a "troubled life." Not wanting to ruin your fun but can you marshal even a scrap of actual evidence that he was a Muslim at all? Other than a few rumors on discredited blogs? Tooconservative  posted on  2015-03-27   11:49:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #32. To: redleghunter (#26) FWIK, that pilot didn't lock himself in the cockpit and drive the plane into a mountain. You mean the co-pilot, right? So...what's the new narrative? Liberator  posted on  2015-03-27   11:49:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #33. To: TooConservative (#31) Not wanting to ruin your fun but can you marshal even a scrap of actual evidence that he was a Muslim at all? Other than a few rumors on discredited blogs? You mean leaks and info from secondhand sources don't count because MSNBC/CNN/FOX didn't confirm? You know what I also find fascinating? Just how many conservative blogs and online sources are "discredited"....when the subject matter is Barry 0bola. And just how much collusion and corruption there is within the mainstream media outlets and gubmints. Look -- the French or German authoritahs are NEVER going to reveal the true nature of this case -- that the perp was a Muslim. Now I know and understand you need an "official report" that supports that claim. Politically, it would set off an unprecedented sh*tstorm of violence. THAT is the bottom line. Liberator  posted on  2015-03-27   11:57:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #34. To: TooConservative, all (#31) Another link to ponder (before IT gets removed): http://stthomasaquinasversusnasa.blogspot.com/2015/03/muslim-convert-co-pilot-andreas-gunter.html Make what you will of it. It was said that Lubitz had a Muslim girlfriend. It is unclear if she was still dating Lubitz at the time of the crash. It is unclear if he met the woman through his Muslims friends. One said that Lubitz had broken off the relationship after he pledged to commit Jihad for Allah. We do know that Lubitz trained at the Lufthansa Flight Training School in Bremen, Germany. Bremen is home to the Mosque Masjidu-l-Furqan Mosque: This Mosque was raided by the police in December 2014 BERLIN, Dec 5 (KUNA) — German authorities have closed a mosque in the northern city of Bremen, after it was accused of encouraging youth to join the extremist Islamic State group (known as ISIL), which is carrying out violent killings across Syria and Iraq. In unprecedented circumstances, more than 100 German police personnel carried out a search of Masjidu-l-Furqan and its accompanying cultural office, which had both been under police radar since 2007. The decision comes amid the fight against ISIL ideology, Bremen Interior Secretary Ulrich Maurer said, accusing the mosque’s management of promoting ISIL values and encouraging young Muslims in the city to travel to Syria and Iraq, and join the ranks of the group, along with Al-Nusra Front – another extremist group in Syria. The centre have so far succeeded in inspiring a total eight men, seven women and 11 juveniles to travel to Syria and join ISIL, according to the official. Lubitz did his time in Bremen when the Mosque was under surveillance. During his training Lubitz took a break - a several month break: Carsten Spohr, CEO of Germanwings parent company, said in a press conference today that Lubitz "took a break in his training six years ago. Then he did the tests (technical and psychological) again. And he was deemed 100 percent fit to fly." "I am not able to state the reasons why he took the break for several months [Was it because Lubitz converted to Islam during his break?] Reason that pushed Lubitz over the edge? The raid on the Mosque in Breman this past December? The Police say they found a significant discovery in his home - not a suicide note: Police investigating the Germanwings crash said they had made a 'significant discovery' at the home of co-pilot Andreas Lubitz, who deliberately ploughed the Airbus A320 into the French Alps. Officers refused to reveal details of the potential breakthrough but said it was not a suicide note. Speaking outside the flat on the outskirts of Dusseldorf, police said they had 'found something' that would now be taken for tests, adding it may be a 'clue' as to what happened to the doomed jet. Is the significant discovery something Islamic? Something on his computer? A Koran? Muslim prayer rug? Liberator  posted on  2015-03-27   12:11:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #35. To: TooConservative, Liberator (#28) I haven't seen an iota of Islam around this guy's history. Just some rumors by some of the biggest rumormongers on the internet. I agree and I would blame Islam in a heart beat - I am not exactly a defender of their religion and think what the Serbs did to the Muslims was fine and dandy. Not every bad thing on earth is Islam's fault. Sometimes it's just some nut off his meds. Pericles  posted on  2015-03-27   12:21:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #36. To: Pericles (#35) "You shall not bear false witness" is a commandment. Liars are sentenced to the Lake of Fire at the end. I can speculate about Islam like anyone else. In fact, I was "morally certain" of it in the Oklahoma City Bombing, and in those theater killings, and charged out there with accusations, without the facts. And I was wrong. Dead wrong. Both times. I was ready to join a lynch mob and I did make false accusations. I was SO VERY CERTAIN. And I was SO VERY WRONG. From these experiences, I have learned to withhold judgment until I know the facts. If I never have the facts, then I can never judge the case. That's fine. God sees all and knows all. Nobody ever gets away with anything. My saying "I don't know: awaiting developments" does not harm anything and is not wrong: it's honest; it's true. My saying "It's Islam!" is not true. I don't know that. It's not honest. It doesn't matter how "morally certain" I am. I've been morally certain twice before and dead wrong both times. I don't intend to make it a threefer. I don't know. If it was Islam, the National Front in France just picked up some major tailwind. If it was not, then Muslims are getting shit for something a Muslim didn't do, and that's wrong. Vicomte13  posted on  2015-03-27   12:55:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #37. To: Vicomte13, Liberator (#36) It's like the Katyn Forrest massacre of Polish officers by the Soviets. It was blamed on the Germans. The Nazis were bad guys - outright mass murderers - but they did not do that crime in question. Pericles  posted on  2015-03-27   12:59:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #38. To: Liberator (#32) I meant the nut on the Jet Blue flight you referenced. He was raving but did not do something stupid. "For the Lord is our Judge, The Lord is our Lawgiver, The Lord is our King; He will save us" (Isaiah 33:22) redleghunter  posted on  2015-03-27   13:10:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #39. To: Vicomte13 (#36) "You shall not bear false witness" is a commandment. Liars are sentenced to the Lake of Fire at the end. So according to you, 2+2 = ?? No, your analogy fall flat. I am not knowingly "lying" OR "bearing false witness." Yes, I am speculating, but based on strong circumstantial and initial reports (that you and many other find un-compelling or "official"), including profiling, tendencies, and the chronic lying of so-called "official reports." Till this day, only Muslim pilots plunge airplane into buildings, the sea, and mountains. Ergo, based upon all of the above factors, the odds are overwhelming that the perp is...a Muslim. So -- would you have believed the "official" accounts of the Romans regarding Jesus guilt? Or the Pharisees? Before you lecture me on the Lake of Fire, get the log out of your own eye, Brother. You've recently been indicting EVERY SINGLE REPUBLICAN LEGISLATOR as derelict in their duty and obligation. That's not only impossible, but technically...a lie. Liberator  posted on  2015-03-27   13:25:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #40. To: Liberator, Vicomte13 (#39) "You shall not bear false witness" is a commandment. Liars are sentenced to the Lake of Fire at the end. So according to you, 2+2 = ?? No, your analogy fall flat. I am not knowingly "lying" OR "bearing false witness." Yes, I am speculating, but based on strong circumstantial and initial reports (that you and many other find un-compelling or "official"), including profiling, tendencies, and the chronic lying of so-called "official reports." Till this day, only Muslim pilots plunge airplane into buildings, the sea, and mountains. Ergo, based upon all of the above factors, the odds are overwhelming that the perp is...a Muslim. So -- would you have believed the "official" accounts of the Romans regarding Jesus guilt? Or the Pharisees? Before you lecture me on the Lake of Fire, get the log out of your own eye, Brother. You've recently been indicting EVERY SINGLE REPUBLICAN LEGISLATOR as derelict in their duty and obligation. That's not only impossible, but technically...a lie. One of the bad things about the internet, Liberator, is that there are a lot of false stuff on there pretending to be news, etc. Pericles  posted on  2015-03-27   13:29:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #41. To: redleghunter (#38) I meant the nut on the Jet Blue flight you referenced. He was raving but did not do something stupid. EXACTAMUNDO. Apparently, some maligning narrator with an obvious agenda have warped compulsion to toss into the same bushel some PO'd guy who was "ranting about Jesus, terrorists, and 9/11" aboard a plane....with actual, murderous terrorists. Liberator  posted on  2015-03-27   13:30:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #42. To: Liberator, redleghunter (#41) Apparently, some maligning narrator with an obvious agenda have warped compulsion to toss into the same bushel some PO'd guy who was "ranting about Jesus, terrorists, and 9/11" aboard a plane....with actual, murderous terrorists. OK, terrorists have a political agenda they are trying to win on via terrorism. Being the victim of a crazy person is terrifying but it is not terrorism. Pericles  posted on  2015-03-27   13:34:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #43. To: Pericles (#40) One of the bad things about the internet, Liberator, is that there are a lot of false stuff on there pretending to be news, etc. And conversely, one of the good things about the internet is completely bypassing the lies and political memes of the MSM. Much of what IS reported on the major Tee-Bee news networks and mainstream media outlets is NOT "news," but propaganda and lies of omission. You mean you don't already know that? In the case of this mass murdering co-pilot, it's not hard to do the math; advancing political agendas, a New World Order, and collecting 30+ pieces of silver are more important than the truth. It's been the case for a long time, whether it's been Jesus Christ or 9/11. Liberator  posted on  2015-03-27   13:36:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #44. To: Pericles, redleghunter (#42) OK, terrorists have a political agenda they are trying to win on via terrorism. Being the victim of a crazy person is terrifying but it is not terrorism. True dat. Liberator  posted on  2015-03-27   13:41:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #45. To: Liberator (#39) No, your analogy fall flat. I am not knowingly "lying" OR "bearing false witness." Maybe YOU'RE not bearing false witness, but if I said "A Muslim did it", I would be. I do not know that a Muslim did it. I have no basis to say that other than suspicion, and that is not good enough for me to make such an accusation. I am very interested to know what his religion was, and what his religious belief set was. I am interested to know details about his ethnicity and his acquaintances. Very, very interested. I will not be surprised to find Islam or atheism there or insane right wing nationalism in there. Not in the least. But that does not allow me to positively assert "He is a Muslim". If I were to do that, I would be bearing false witness, because I don't know it. My purpose in doing it would be to attack Islam for yet another crime against humanity. There are plenty of REAL Muslim abominations. It will not do for me to make up additional ones. Vicomte13  posted on  2015-03-27   13:41:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #46. To: Pericles (#40) One of the bad things about the internet, Liberator, is that there are a lot of false stuff on there pretending to be news, etc. I'm glad you agree with me -- wholeheartedly, and avidly apparently. #5. To: TooConservative, Fred Mertz (#2) (Edited) I think a lot of people did not buy the State Dept/EU narrative on Ukraine - their first reaction is to think that Russia - stumble bums in propaganda - had somehow undermined the American message? - I mean we had those hipster State Dept spokeswomen doing Twitter hastags for the Kiev Nazis and being laughed and clearly that was the KGB doing that? - lol. Either they actually think their message was short circuted by professional trolls (like the State Dept does not have similar services) or this is an excuse to cover the USA ramping up their own propaganda effort as cover. There is a troll gap!!!! Pericles  posted on  2015-03-27   12:52:57 ET And...how about those "professional trolls"? Good thing none reside at this forum. Liberator  posted on  2015-03-27   13:48:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #47. To: Liberator (#46) Pericles posted on 2015-03-27 12:52:57 ET And...how about those "professional trolls"? Good thing none reside at this forum. Pro trolls post on newspaper comment sections and forums with lots of clickers. To be a professional troll here is a waste of time and money. Pericles  posted on  2015-03-27   13:57:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply         .       .       . Comments (48 - 57) not displayed. Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest

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