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Title: My Jewish Trek
Source:
Jewish Journal
URL Source: http://www.jewishjournal.com/opinion/article/my_jewish_trek
Published: Mar 18, 2015
Author: Sheldon Teitelbaum
Post Date: 2015-03-18 17:47:20 by Willie Green
Keywords: None
Views: 18471
Comments: 69
In the spring of 1991, I had the privilege of spending a month aboard the good old NCC-1701-D. That's the starship Enterprise to you, then the flagship of Star Trek:The Next Generation, and the only interstellar craft I'd been on (and as a bureau chief for the acclaimed sci-fi film and TV magazine Cinefantastique, I'd been on a few) that boasted carpeting on the bridge. The occasion was the 25th anniversary of Star Trek, a series I had watched assiduously since its debut on September 8, 1966. I was 12 then, the proverbial “Golden Age of science fiction.” And by the end of “Man Trap,” an episode featuring the last of a race of mind reading, shape shifting, salt-sucking vampires, I shouldered a habit every bit as nasty as the hideous but otherwise sympathetic alien. Henceforth, Thursday nights became nearly as sacred as Erev Shabbat. Henceforth, I would save my meagre weekly allowance to buy an AMT model of the original USS Enterprise, then a whopping $5.95, and after that, finances permitting, a Klingon Bird of Prey. Henceforth, I implored my Auntie Roz, who worked for Bantam Books in New York, to send me the Star Trek tie-in paperbacks no one else seemed to want. And in anticipation of Halloween, I haunted Eaton's, Hudson Bay Company, Zellers and other Montreal clothing retailers searching in vain for a velour cosplay shirt, all the while pestering my mother for a pair of pointed ears. As you might imagine, the desk at The Los Angeles Times Magazine didn't have to ask twice if I was interested in a short tour of duty aboard the new ship of the line. And to start things rolling, I was provided an audience with the Great Bird of the Galaxy himself, Eugene Wesley Roddenberry or, as he presented himself while seated in a wheelchair in the expansive office of his palatial Bel-Air home, Gene. I decided to conclude our wide-ranging interview with an issue that had intrigued me since I began covering Jewish and Israeli affairs. I suggested that there seemed to be something almost uniquely Jewish about the flavor of the Star Trek universe. Roddenberry perked up. “How so?” “Consider,” I said, drawing upon long practiced Vulcan equanimity. “Earth has chosen a Federation as its greatest organizing entity. The Federation believes in outreach and mutual acceptance and respect as organizing principles. The peripatetic protagonists are tasked with the ongoing mission of wandering the galaxy. The second banana, hired because his unconventional Jewish face suggested alien qualities, used rabbinic gestures to convey salutations, and parsed the wild and wooly universe with the logic-bound aplomb of a Talmudic scholar.” I left unsaid that performers Bill Shatner, Leonard Nimoy and Walter Koenig, as well as producers Robert Justman, Herb Solow and Fred Freiberger and too many writers to name were all fellow tribesmen. Roddenberry, I concluded, must have been a philo-Semite of the first order to surround himself with so many Red Sea pedestrians. The congenial Roddenberry concluded what I later realized was a slow burn. “You Jews,” he snarled, “have a lamentable habit of identifying those characteristics in a society that you deem positive and then taking credit for inventing them” Um. Not long after my Times story appeared (and shortly before Roddenberry expired), Star Trek: TNG producer Rick Berman suggested to Leonard Nimoy that he might wish to co-write his biography, I Am Spock (early in his career, fearful of typecasting, he wrote a book called I Am Not Spock) with me. After some discussion, I bid farewell to the 7-series Bimmer that had replaced models of the Enterprise in my dreams: Nimoy, I suggested, would be best off, and was eminently capable of, writing the book himself. This he did, rather nicely, I thought, while I embarked on a feature on the making of the film Star Trek III: The Search for Spock, which he directed, for Cinefantastique. My first interview then took me to the West Side home of the recently deceased producer Harve Bennett. Another Jewish Treknik, Bennett had eased Roddenberry out of involvement in the Star Trek films after the Great Bird laid an egg with the maladroit Star Trek: The Motion Picture (a film which inexplicably made $82 million over the long haul). Bennett informed me that as director, Nimoy had all but imbued Star Trek III with a surfeit of Yiddishkeit. Nimoy began by depicting Spock's homeworld, Vulcan, as a hot, desert planet recognizable as a stand-in for Ancient Israel. "Vulcan is really the creation of Leonard's mind," said Bennett. He noted that Nimoy saw Vulcan as a once-barbaric world peopled by a passionate race who had nearly destroyed themselves early in their history through civil war, yet channeled this energy into pure intellectualism. In so doing, they achieved species survival by becoming the most logical and least war-like of peoples. But despite their rationalism, they are still ruled by ritual and ideological orthodoxy. Even the costumes worn by Vulcan officials in the "Star Trek" were, according to costume designer Robert Fletcher, based on descriptions of the vestments worn by Temple Kohanim that he found in the Bible. Initially, Star Trek: TNG provided a strangely hospitable haven for Jews who ordinarily would have blanched at the prospect of relying on Federation star dates to determine Shabbat onset. Who could have imagined that Klingon badass Worf, a Federation officer and scion of a Klingon imperial family, would be called upon to host his adoptive earth parents, including Theodore Bikel, identified as a Russian but initially conceived as a Jew until the idea of Tevye as paterfamilias threatened the Klingon warrior's estimable gravitas. "It was a subject of extraordinary discussion," the late executive producer Michael Piller recounted. "The orders were handed down not to make Worf's adopted parents Jewish. I don't want to sound anti-Semitic; that's not what it meant. I am a Jew and so is Rick (Producer Rick Berman). We were simply afraid of making the Worf character laughable." In the spring of '93, however, Jewish fans of the series took special umbrage at a group of aliens figuring prominently in the Star Trek series, Deep Space Nine. As originally conceived by Roddenberry, the Ferengi were squat, deformed and venal creatures, lecherous, miserly and greedy, bearing huge, misshapen ear, severely notched noses and, according to Roddenberry's Writers' Bible, prodigious personal packages. The editor of Film Score Monthly, at the time, a student at Amherst College, called the alarm, attesting that “There was no denying the anti-Semitic attributes of the Ferengi.” Paramount denied it. But writer/producer Brannon Bragga, who was not Jewish, told me he had in fact protested to Berman and Piller that the Ferengi represented malicious Medieval representations of Jews as profit-crazed merchants lusting for Christian damsels. But when he warned that such stereotypes still had the potential to wreak havoc in the late 20th Century, they dismissed his concerns. Meanwhile, word went out about my pursuit of this issue within the walls of Paramount. Smack in the middle of an interview with Ferengi majordomo Armin Shimmerman, himself a Jewish actor with admitted misgivings over the role, a call came in from Paramount's publicity department instructing him to cease and desist all contacts with me forthwith. Clearly, I had become an enemy of the Federation. And as such, I discovered I had been, to coin a term from my early days as an SF fan, spaced. Two years later, The Jerusalem Report asked me to interview Nimoy about his involvement in KCRW public radio station's release of a series of audio CDs comprising a series called "Jewish Short Stories from Eastern Europe and Beyond." In it, Nimoy introduced 13 hour-long readings by such performers as Walter Matthau, Lauren Bacall and Elliott Gould. The series features contemporary works by the likes of Philip Roth and Cynthia Ozick along with stories by Yiddish authors, including Sholem Aleichem, I.B. Singer and I.L. Peretz I met Nimoy at his Pico-Robertson adjacent office, where he told me about his difficulties, upon first arriving in Los Angeles during the 1950s, finding a minyan he felt welcoming and spiritually enriching. He spoke about his early activities in local Yiddish theatre, and of his discovery that he was one of the only local performers who could actually sing and dance in Yiddish, which made him quite the man in demand in those circles. And then we spoke of Roddenberry. I told him of my sense of the man as no big fan of Jews or Judaism. But perhaps I was just being tetchy. In fact, I loathed thinking of Roddenberry in these terms. What would that portend for my own enthusiasm for his creation? Trek was, after all, the first TV series to portray an interracial kiss? He hired an African-American production manager. Roddenberry mocked small-minded bigotry and bloody-mindedness in episode after episode. He even had the temerity to put a Russian on the bridge at the height of the Cold War. These were hardly the actions of a small-town American bigot. And yet. “Gene was anti-Semitic, clearly,” Nimoy replied as my heart sank. “Roddenberry had Jewish associates; Bill (Shatner) and I were both Jewish, as were others. To be fair, Roddenberry was anti-religion. And apart from being a ethnic-cultural entity, Jews, to him, were a religious group. But I saw examples not only of him practicing anti-Semitism, but of him being callous about other peoples' differences as well." How then, I found myself wondering over the years, could Nimoy, Shatner, Koenig and the rest of them work for a man who held Jews in such poor regard? Were they driven merely by the steady paycheck and star billing? Or was this just another time, when for many American Jews, this kind of crap was simply the cost of business? What, for instance, are we to make of Roddenberry's decision to rewrite screenwriter Shimon Wincelberg's reference to Hillel's “Torah on one leg” parable in the classic first-season-episode, “Dagger of the Mind,”, attributing it to “the ancient skeptic.” Wincelberg responded to Roddenberry's incessant rewrites by requesting a name change to S. Bar-David. According to Trek historian Marc Cushman, Wincelberg, like many other veteran writers commissioned by Trek, took umbrage at being rewritten so wantonly. Was the resort to the Bar-David nome de plume the writer's way of telegraphing his displeasure over the whitewashing of the Jewish reference? The truth, I suspect, is more layered. Roddenberry may have shared Richard Nixon's small-town anti-Semitism while availing himself, as would Nixon, of Jewish talent. But that sentiment could no more negate the fundamental decency of the universe he inherited than could the parochial prejudices of some of the founding fathers of this country. Disney may have been created whole cloth by a vicious anti-Semite. But that did not preclude Michael Eisner and Jeffrey Katzenberg from assuming the helm of a public space open to all and in which some kind of outward decency ostensibly prevailed. In the film Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country, Nimoy quoted a famous Vulcan proverb: “Only Nixon could go to China.” As I continue contemplating the measure of Gene's achievement, I am inclined to believe that only Roddenberry could have turned deep space into a Jewish preserve. And only Nimoy, a lovely man from an Orthodox Jewish family in Chicago, could have served as its high priest.
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#29. To: Pericles (#25)
In the late 19th century, Europeans and Americans were deeply fascinated by the “Dark Continent” of Africa and its many mysteries. Few did more to increase Africa’s fame than Livingstone, one of England’s most intrepid explorers. In August 1865, he set out on a planned two-year expedition to find the source of the Nile River. Livingstone also wanted to help bring about the abolition of the slave trade, which was devastating Africa’s population. Almost six years after his expedition began, little had been heard from Livingstone. James Gordon Bennett, Jr., editor of the New York Herald, decided to capitalize on the public’s craze for news of their hero. He sent Stanley to lead an expedition into the African wilderness to find Livingstone or bring back proof of his death. At age 28, Stanley had his own fascinating past. As a young orphan in Wales, he crossed the Atlantic on the crew of a merchant ship. He jumped ship in New Orleans and later served in the Civil War as both a Confederate and a Union soldier before beginning a career in journalism. After setting out from Zanzibar in March 1871, Stanley led his caravan of nearly 2,000 men into the interior of Africa. Nearly eight months passed–during which Stanley contracted dysentery, cerebral malaria and smallpox– before the expedition approached the village of Ujiji, on the shore of Lake Tanganyika. Sick and poverty-stricken, Livingstone had come to Ujiji that July after living for some time at the mercy of Arab slave traders. When Stanley’s caravan entered the village on October 27, flying the American flag, villagers crowded toward the new arrivals. Spotting a white man with a gray beard in the crowd, Stanley stepped toward him and stretched out his hand: “Dr. Livingstone, I presume?” These words–and Livingstone’s grateful response–soon became famous across Europe and the United States. Though Stanley urged Livingstone to return with him to London, the explorer vowed to continue his original mission. Livingstone died 18 months later in today’s Zambia; his body was embalmed and returned to Britain, where he was buried in Westminster Abbey.
"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." (Genesis 1:1)
Sounds like they may have turned you down. What does L.I.F.E.R. mean? www.usatoday.com/story/ne...tion-sleep-apnea/9291425/ ESAD / FOAD... if you do, you will. Evidently the morbidly obese parasites in the snore brigade didn't get that memo.
The Horror!
Yes. The tome "The Heart of Darkness" and the movie based on the spirit of the tome "Apocalypse Now."
"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." (Genesis 1:1)
Hark, is that the sound of rat's feet on broken glass? Elsewhere in popular culture - Conrad's Nostromo and Sulaco are boats into that dark place where nobody, in The Company or otherwise, can hear you scream. Not with a bang but a whimper!
Amazing account, Red... Mind-boggling that somehow, some way Stanley (flying an American flag no less!) actually found Livingstone. Btw, how did Livingstone die? And did Stanley recover from his own maladies?
When? As of 10 years ago? Yesterday? At best, you are an American IN NAME ONLY. Your words indict you as either a self-loathing anti-nationalist and traitor with an unhealthy obsession for the destruction of America, capitalism, and the US military. OR, a international troll. Frankly, without US intervention, military deterrence, and financial aid since the end of WW2, your entire precious native European under-belly would have been swarmed and enslaved by either Islam OR the USSR for decades by now. The US military may well be a bloated bureaucracy and over-subsidized institution, exploited by contractors, politicians, and lobbyists. HOWEVER, besmirching those who serve and sacrifice honorably, dedicated to the preservation of this republic, are NOT to be confused with those who create idiotic policy and are self-serving globalists and financial/political opportunists.
What did President/General Eisenhower's words indict him as, slave?
Why don't YOU explain, Parrot??
Romans 1:25+, Slave.
About 18 months later Livingston passed away. Stanley continued his mission but then got caught up taking money from Belgium and helping out the then, still ongoing African slave trade. Seems the Muzzies still needed slaves. He eventually claimed his British citizenship and regretted the Belgian involvement. http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history
"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." (Genesis 1:1)
I would offer the context. The ones enslaved to sin are those who reject the Gospel: Romans 3: 16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. 18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: 21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. 24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. 26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; 29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them. "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." (Genesis 1:1)
Is that reaally ALL you've got, Polly? Pathetic. Btw, the meter is STILL running on you regarding my other requests. Tick...tick...tick....
Wow. Stanley. Greed. Complicity in Muzzie enslavement. Nothing new under the sun. So he did repent after all? (I'll have to check out the link.)
Romans 3.... Thanks, Red. True dat. Btw, Jefferson wrote 'Romans,' right? ;-)
:)
"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." (Genesis 1:1)
Reminds me I should post a Newton piece.
"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." (Genesis 1:1)
The context speaks for itself. Organized religion has always been a "created thing". Are you not aware that all the angels dance when a Jew Farts on Rigel 7?
That's all I need to illustrate the cause and effect of your religious petrification, Slave.
I have to give you credit for that comment. The Body of Christ, His "called out ones" is an organism and not an organization. You know like shadowy organizations like the Masons.
"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." (Genesis 1:1)
Like the ones who wrote the American Declaration of Independence and told the Zionist/CaeSARean eurotrash where they could stuff their sun-princes -- Like Moses did before them? Still nailed to the Pharaoh's eunuperch are ye?
Still nailed to the Pharaoh's eunuperch are ye? Ah there we have it.
"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." (Genesis 1:1)
I have been in the USA since the 1st grade, and as for your stupid assertion about the USA keeping Europe free from Islam - the stupid USA has prevented the Christians from destroying the Muslims inthe Balkans and armed a destitute Turkey for decades. Islamic armies outside of American armed Turkey are no threat to Europe. Did you forget NATO in Bosnia and Kosovo? Death to NATO.
That really wasn't necessary. You had already established the facts that you are bitter and insane.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
Greece is still part of NATO right? Turkey is the second largest member state next to the US with regards to troop strength.
"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." (Genesis 1:1)
Turkey is the second largest member state next to the US with regards to troop strength. I repeat - Death to NATO. Also, I laugh once again Liberator's claim the USA protected Europe from the swarms of Islam? What Islamic empire was attacking Europe from the end of WW2 to the fall of the USSR? The USA and her NATO bitches created 2 Muslim states in the Balkans and were backing an independent Chechnya. Uncle Sam should be renamed Uncle Saudi. Hey, Liberator thanks for proving I am not wrong about the run of the mill American.
Yep. The fact America's founders created a secular republic instead of empowering religious goons with state-established coercive powers is what it is.
Still not buying the "the founders were all Masons." If so then all that Baal shite you claim is all embraced by the shadowy Masons. They are the ones that go back in history claiming to be kin to Moslems and pagans. More: "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." (Genesis 1:1)
The bill for establishing religious freedom, the principles of which had, to a certain degree, been enacted before, I had drawn in all the latitude of reason & right. It still met with opposition; but, with some mutilations in the preamble, it was finally past; and a singular proposition proved that it’s protection of opinion was meant to be universal. Where the preamble declares that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed, by inserting the word “Jesus Christ,” so that it should read "” departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion” the insertion was rejected by a great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of it's protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mahometan, the Hindoo, and infidel of every denomination. From “Thomas Jefferson, July 27, 1821, Autobiography Draft Fragment,” page 538 http://www.loc.gov/teachers/classroommaterials/connections/thomas-jefferson/history3.html
A main principle of deism is a God not involved in the affairs of men. Not even Jefferson gives that impression in his works. Again, one man. He did not represent all 55 signers. In fact as a whole here is the breakdown of Christian denominations for the founding fathers. And no...Moses did not wear a fez.
"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." (Genesis 1:1)
Not our DoI nor Constitution. We've been through this.
"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." (Genesis 1:1)
Jefferson, Frankin, Washington, Paine. All Deists. One man whose Deistic draft was signed by all. Wearing a fez has nothing to do with leading people out of state-established organized religious tyranny. "the largest group consisted of founders who retained Christian loyalties and practice but were influenced by Deism. They believed in little or none of the miracles and supernaturalism inherent in the Judeo-Christian tradition. Holmes finds a spectrum of such Deistic Christians among the founders,[citation needed] ranging from John Adams and George Washington on the conservative right to Benjamin Franklin and James Monroe on the skeptical left"
Complete nonsense. Franklin's beliefs were Unitarian. Washington was Anglican. Paine most likely more an atheist and Jefferson unknown as his writings show conflict. Over 90% of the founders hailed from Protestant and Reformed orthodox churches. The numbers are against you.
"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." (Genesis 1:1)
Complete nonsense. Evidently not quite as cut and dried as you'd like. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Franklin The record of his taking communion was spotty.[16] Ministers at four of the churches Washington often attended wrote that he regularly left services before communion. When Rev. Dr. James Abercrombie, rector of St. Peter's Episcopal Church, in Philadelphia, mentioned in a weekly sermon that those in elevated stations set an unhappy example by leaving at communion, Washington completely stopped attending that church on communion Sundays.[17][18] Long after Washington died, when asked about Washington's beliefs, Abercrombie replied: "Sir, Washington was a Deist!"[19][unreliable source?] Nonetheless, it was also not uncommon in those days for churchgoers to pass on participating in communion.[9] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Washington_and_religion While Paine never described himself as a deist,[82] he did write the following: The opinions I have advanced ... are the effect of the most clear and long-established conviction that the Bible and the Testament are impositions upon the world, that the fall of man, the account of Jesus Christ being the Son of God, and of his dying to appease the wrath of God, and of salvation, by that strange means, are all fabulous inventions, dishonorable to the wisdom and power of the Almighty; that the only true religion is Deism, by which I then meant, and mean now, the belief of one God, and an imitation of his moral character, or the practice of what are called moral virtues – and that it was upon this only (so far as religion is concerned) that I rested all my hopes of happiness hereafter. So say I now – and so help me God.[79] But then, disingenuous parrots of your ilk have already demonstrated your disregard for historical accuracy by attempting to exclude Thomas Jefferson from the circle of revolutionarily influential philosophers. Cynthia Dunbar, a lawyer from Richmond who is a strict constitutionalist and thinks the nation was founded on Christian beliefs, managed to cut Thomas Jefferson from a list of figures whose writings inspired revolutions in the late 18th century and 19th century, replacing him with St. Thomas Aquinas, John Calvin and William Blackstone. (Jefferson is not well liked among conservatives on the board because he coined the term “separation between church and state.”) “The Enlightenment was not the only philosophy on which these revolutions were based,” Ms. Dunbar said. http://www.texastribune.org/2010/03/22/sboe-removes-thomas-jefferson-blames-media/ Maybe, maybe not. That hall 1 mile North of the White Hut must hold quite an audience. And either way, America is a REPUBLIC where the Law - and not the numbers of some tyrannical majority - RULES.
Thanks for confirming the "unreliable" source is your wiki quote. Pick up "Sacred Fire" on Washington. It shows portions of his letters and prayer book. The he used often was his cherished Church of England Book of Prayer. And of course you would know that Adams and Hancock did some heavy editing of the junior Jefferson. They both liked him very much but saw him too influenced by European enlightenment. Which was not a large movement in the American colonies.
"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." (Genesis 1:1)
Take the sacred fire and shove it up your disingenuous arse. Maybe it will illuminate the space your head occupies. Jefferson and Franklin were Deists by your own source that you evidently didn't bother to read. Paine's words speak for themselves. And I'll take the words attributed to Washington's pastor over your WallTardian parrot droppings any day.
They claim it to aggrandize themselves. There is no evidence they existed in any form until the late medieval period, around the Renaissance era when literacy became more widespread.
Making it personal always admits defeat. So be it.
"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." (Genesis 1:1)
There was nothing disingenuous about what he recommended. You on the other hand are low class with no manners. You show disrespect and contempt for people superior to you in every way.
Riiiight. Complete nonsense. Franklin's beliefs were Unitarian. Washington was Anglican. Paine most likely more an atheist and Jefferson unknown as his writings show conflict. Over 90% of the founders hailed from Protestant and Reformed orthodox churches. The numbers are against you. "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." (Genesis 1:1) From the "Founders religion" link posted above: Thomas Jefferson Virginia Benjamin Franklin Pennsylvania Which renders this assertion, FALSE: "Franklin's beliefs were Unitarian. Washington was Anglican. Paine most likely more an atheist and Jefferson unknown as his writings show conflict" --Redleghunter Enjoy the Crow, dribble drawers.
#30. To: sneakypete, pericles (#27)
(Edited)
>>it's what I feel about the military though - bunch of moocher socialists.
#31. To: redleghunter (#29)
#32. To: VxH (#31)
#33. To: redleghunter (#32)
Yes. The tome "The Heart of Darkness" and the movie based on the spirit of the tome "Apocalypse Now."
#34. To: redleghunter (#29)
#35. To: Pericles (#23)
(Edited)
I come from the USA.
#36. To: Liberator (#35)
(Edited)
Your words indict you as either a self-loathing anti-nationalist and traitor with an unhealthy obsession for the destruction of America, capitalism, and the US military
#37. To: VxH (#36)
#38. To: Liberator (#37)
(Edited)
#39. To: Liberator (#34)
#40. To: VxH, liberator (#38)
Romans 1:25+, Slave.
#41. To: VxH (#38)
Romans 1:25+
#42. To: redleghunter (#39)
#43. To: redleghunter, VxH (#40)
I would offer the context. The ones enslaved to sin are those who reject the Gospel:
#44. To: Liberator (#43)
#45. To: Liberator (#42)
#46. To: redleghunter (#40)
#47. To: Liberator (#41)
Is that reaally ALL you've got
#48. To: VxH, liberator (#46)
Organized religion has always been a "created thing".
#49. To: redleghunter (#48)
(Edited)
You know like shadowy organizations like the Masons.
#50. To: VxH (#49)
Like the ones who wrote the American Declaration of Independence and told the Zionist/CaeSARean eurotrash where they could stuff their sun-princes -- Like Moses did before them?
#51. To: Liberator (#35)
#52. To: VxH (#38)
Romans 1:25+, Slave.
#53. To: Pericles (#51)
#54. To: redleghunter, Liberator (#53)
Greece is still part of NATO right?
#55. To: redleghunter (#50)
Ah there we have it.
#56. To: VxH, liberator, TooConservative (#55)
#57. To: redleghunter (#56)
What's exactly 1 mile North of the White Hut, and 2 miles north of the Jefferson Memorial?
#58. To: redleghunter (#56)
(Edited)
They are the ones that go back in history claiming to be kin to Moslems and pagans.
#59. To: VxH, GarySpFc, liberator (#57)
Moses was depicted as a Free Mason in Cecil Demil's the 10 Commandments.
#60. To: VxH (#58)
#61. To: redleghunter (#59)
Again, one man.
Moses did not wear a fez.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The...s_of_the_Founding_Fathers
#62. To: VxH (#61)
#63. To: redleghunter (#62)
(Edited)
Franklin formulated a presentation of his beliefs and published it in 1728.[121] It did not mention many of the Puritan ideas as regards belief in salvation, the divinity of Jesus, and indeed most religious dogma. He clarified himself as a deist in his 1771 autobiography,[122]
Thomas Jefferson Virginia Episcopalian (Deist) Benjamin Franklin Pennsylvania Episcopalian (Deist)
The drafter of the American Declaration of Independence didn't inspire any revolutions?
LOL. That'd be funny if it wasn't so religiously pathetic. The numbers are against you.
#64. To: VxH, GarySpFc, liberator (#63)
Abercrombie replied: "Sir, Washington was a Deist!"[19][unreliable source?]
#65. To: redleghunter (#64)
(Edited)
#66. To: redleghunter (#56)
If so then all that Baal shite you claim is all embraced by the shadowy Masons. They are the ones that go back in history claiming to be kin to Moslems and pagans.
#67. To: VxH (#65)
#68. To: VxH (#65)
Take the sacred fire and shove it up your disingenuous arse.
#69. To: A K A Stone, redleghunter (#68)
(Edited)
nothing disingenuous
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