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Title: Should Christians Be Hospitable to Cult Members?
Source:
Grace to You
URL Source: http://www.gty.org/resources/bible- ... ble-to-cult-members?Term=cults
Published: Mar 11, 2015
Author: John MacArthur
Post Date: 2015-03-11 16:41:49 by redleghunter
Keywords: None
Views: 40567
Comments: 144
In verse 10 John sets out one practical application of how to defend the truth: If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house. Hospitality for traveling teachers was common in the culture (cf. Luke 9:1-6; 10:1-12). The prohibition here is not to turn away the ignorant; it does not mean that believers may not invite unbelievers—even those who belong to a cult or false religion—into their midst. That would make giving the truth to them difficult, if not impossible. The point is that believers are not to welcome and provide care for traveling false teachers, who seek to stay in their homes, thereby giving the appearance of affirming what they teach and lending them credibility John’s use of the conjunction ei (if) with an indicative verb indicates a condition that is likely true. Apparently, the lady to whom he wrote had for whatever reason, in the name of Christian fellowship, already welcomed false teachers into her home. It was just such compassionate, well-meaning people that the false teachers sought out (cf. 2 Tim. 3:6); since churches were supposed to be protected by elders who were skilled teachers of the Word (1 Tim. 3:2; Titus 1:9), they should have been less susceptible to the lies propagated by the deceivers. Having established themselves in homes, the false teachers hoped eventually to worm their way into the churches. It is much the same today, as false teaching insidiously invades Christian homes through television, radio, the Internet, and literature. So threatening are these emissaries of Satan that Jo[h]n went on to forbid even giving them a greeting; for the one who gives him a greeting participates in his evil deeds. Irenaeus relates that the church father Polycarp, when asked by the notorious heretic Marcion, “Do you know me?” replied, “I do know you—the firstborn of Satan” (Against Heresies, 3.3.4). John himself once encountered Cerinthus (another notorious heretic) in a public bathhouse in Ephesus. Instead of greeting him, however, John turned and fled, exclaiming to those with him, “Let us fly, lest even the bath-house fall down, because Cerinthus, the enemy of the truth, is within” (Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 3.3.4).
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#76. To: Liberator (#75)
I know, I know. As the heretics like to say: "Prove from scripture that it isn't!". Don't strain your back gathering firewood and kindling for my upcoming auto-de-fé. Here's a lovely one from 1680, a full stadium event.
In revealing Genesis to those nomadic tribes, it wasn't God's purpose to educate them with a complex understanding of cosmology & astrophysics. Nor did he intend the Creation Story to include a detailed explanation of DNA/biochemistry/microbiology & evolution. The Bible and Modern Science are NOT incompatible. I think it's a shame that you have been duped by atheists into thinking that they are.
Very lawyerly instructions on how to pray. Chyeah -- like HE wuz soooo special?? Well, it's not as though Jesus instructed repetition in the 'Our Father.' (Unless of course as part of penance in the Confessional thru Father Flanagan.) As to a 'Hail Mary,' "Go looong! I'll hit you with a bomb, Homes!" Yes, "lawyerly," but The Mount was as public as can be (Jesus: "Is this mike on??") I'll provide other accounts: Mealtime Grace; Leading two or more in prayer. We discern between that and a peanut vendor at Yankee Stadium.
There's a loud mouth where I work always telling everyone else how much more 'Conservative' he is compared to the rest of us. FWIW all of us are military veterans, so of course the comments are not well taken. I'm thinking of getting magnet bumper stickers for his car. One with "COEXIST" and the other "Veterans for Obola." Do you think that would be uncharitable. I mean they are magnetic type stickers and not permanent:)
"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." (1 Peter 1:23)
Do you have the audio?? (eyes straining) I can't tell if that's 1680's version of Jonathan Edwards OR Joel Osteen.
"Conservative" in what context?? I'm thinking of getting magnet bumper stickers for his car. One with "COEXIST" and the other "Veterans for Obola." Do you think that would be uncharitable. I mean they are magnetic type stickers and not permanent:) Oh, that's gonna leave a mark. (I approve ;-)
As opposed to promoting all the benefits of the Union-Commie Cult??
The problem is that, 5000 years ago, nomadic Jewish shepherds didn't have the Internet or Wikipedia to look-up these scientific facts. They had to jot it all down in indecipherable hieroglyphics on crumbly parchment paper. Cripes, they even did it bass-ackwards right-to-left instead of writing it left-to-right like modern, civilized people do. If that makes you feel better at cocktail parties, Willie, drive on. Creation was a miracle just as Christ fed the 5000 with a few fish and loaves. I will ask the question I normally do at this point. Are the miracles of Christ recorded in the Gospels and proclaimed in the NT epistles literal? Meaning did they happen as recorded in Scriptures?
"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." (1 Peter 1:23)
Let's look at the source in Matthew 6 (KJV): 6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly. 7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. 8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him. 9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. 10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. 11 Give us this day our daily bread. Jesus instructs to pray in secret (not in groups reciting prayers) and to avoid rote prayers altogether. Modern Christians of almost every flavor disregard these clear commands from their Savior at least once a year and flaunt their defiance of Jesus in unity. Some of them wear Christian jewelry or T-shirts while doing it, also contrary to Christ's command on such public displays of self-righteous holiness in apparel.
He's a vocal fiscal conservative. Also a close the border conservative. Beyond that anything goes.
"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." (1 Peter 1:23)
The Biblical tenants and science are incompatible when science contradicts the Holy Bible. Science is always contradicting itself. How often has science findings changed previous scientific findings?
Those cocktail parties are a little less smug than you imagine. Big Bang does have some problems and contradictions, the most glaring of which is its lack of explanation for what happened before the Big Bang. A rising theory is that the universe was never created at all and has existed from all eternity in largely the form it has today. While light matter and dark matter and their associated energy may alter over time, sometimes spectacularly, it doesn't change the overall eternal nature and composition of the universe. I actually like this better than Big Bang which I always found lacking.
You can find video clips on YouPope.com. Some guy from Rome. Like you didn't know that already, you imp.
What chapter and verse are you referencing in your statement about the Bible and apparel. I have no problem with wearing such T-Shirts as you mentioned. It is time that more people talk more about Christ.
I actually like this better than Big Bang which I always found lacking. Atheists are always looking for the next 'angle' to explain things they can't explain with real science. They will eventually embrace (some do now) some pagan pantheism to 'splain' things. Everything under the sun (or universe) other than a Sovereign and Eternal God. The notion of "everything has always been" meme is so detached of reason, logic and even common sense. As everything is in decay. If something has an end (which we can observe) it has a beginning (which we can observe as well through procreation). The sheer madness of their darkened pursuits of any explanation other than God is saddening.
"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." (1 Peter 1:23)
Fundamentally, I remain an acolyte of the process of Continuous Improvement, and I beleive that Modern Science has a much better understanding of the Universe than the ancient nomadic tribes of the Middle East 5000 years ago. You mean this McEarth may be one of God's tiny franchises??
#77. To: Willie Green (#51)
am not some 5000 year-old nomadic Jewish shepard boy. I'm a modern-day American who is well educated both in the fudamental tenets of my religious faith AND the scientific facts that reveals the mysteries of God's wonderous universe far beyond the comprehension level of illiterate, 5000-year-old-nomads.
#78. To: TooConservative, releghunter, CZ82 (#73)
Jesus got off on a technicality, having specifically warned them against rote recitations (like Our Fathers and Hail Marys to give an example that conveniently comes to mind).
#79. To: Liberator, TooConservative (#70)
Vandals and cowards aren't usually are caught in the act, or stick around too long :-)
#80. To: TooConservative (#76)
#81. To: redleghunter, TooConservative (#79)
There's a loud mouth where I work always telling everyone else how much more 'Conservative' he is compared to the rest of us. FWIW all of us are military veterans, so of course the comments are not well taken.
#82. To: A Pole, Willie Green (#74)
On FR you were questioning Free Market cult.
#83. To: Willie Green (#71)
No, the speed of light is a known constant, so the approximate size and age of the known Universe is readily calculable.
#84. To: Liberator, Vicomte13 (#78)
Yes, "lawyerly," but The Mount was as public as can be (Jesus: "Is this mike on??")
#85. To: Liberator (#81)
"Conservative" in what context??
#86. To: Willie Green (#51)
#87. To: redleghunter (#83)
If that makes you feel better at cocktail parties, Willie, drive on.
#88. To: Liberator (#80)
Do you have the audio??
(eyes straining) I can't tell if that's 1680's version of Jonathan Edwards OR Joel Osteen.
#89. To: TooConservative (#84)
#90. To: TooConservative, liberator (#87)
A rising theory is that the universe was never created at all and has existed from all eternity in largely the form it has today. While light matter and dark matter and their associated energy may alter over time, sometimes spectacularly, it doesn't change the overall eternal nature and composition of the universe.
#91. To: Don (#86)
The Biblical tenants and science are incompatible when science contradicts the Holy Bible. Science is always contradicting itself. How often has science findings changed previous scientific findings?
If you wish to remain stagnant in their archaic worldview, that is of course your perogative.
#92. To: redleghunter (#90)
I'll observe that the Genesis creation account does share a certain sudden poof-factor with the Big Bang theory. Both are of a sudden massive creation from nothing. So Big Bang is a lot of instant creationism (as with Genesis) but with no God involved. What if Genesis describes only the creation of our own planet and solar system and no more?
The notion of "everything has always been" meme is so detached of reason, logic and even common sense. As everything is in decay. If something has an end (which we can observe) it has a beginning (which we can observe as well through procreation).
#93. To: Willie Green (#91)
As ridiculous as your analogs among the evolutionists. Of course, this is sheer ignorance of what evolution really is. Devolution is just as possible (and likely) as evolution. Darwin certainly thought so and said so. It is the liberal types who like to believe that "everything is getting better in every way" who have mangled Darwin's work in this way. Gigantism is especially hated by Darwin and his elvish helpers.
I remain an acolyte of the process of Continuous Improvement...
#94. To: A Pole (#74)
I wasn't banned... I opused out when AssClown Robinson declared himself more "conservative" than Paul Weyrich and censored discussion of passenger rail issues because it was a subversive communist plot: Ten Reasons Why Conservatives should support transit Over 35 million Americans rely on some form of public tansportation to commute to work every weekday. That was my last post in the Echo Chamber...On FR you were questioning Free Market cult.
Trains Save Fuel
To: Jim Robinson
By Paul Weyrich and William S. Lind
If that makes them "marxist" in your worldview, then I suggest that you refrain from hanging out with the whacknut libertarians. They obviously have been a bad influence on you.
I don't kowtow to JimRob's abusive mind control.
If you want to talk about creepy cult leaders, you can't leave JimRob off the list.
#95. To: TooConservative (#93)
Don't go misinterpreting what I said. Just because I told you that I'm an acolyte of Continuous Improvement on this thread, don't go forgetting that I've also recently declared myself a firm believer in Murphy's Law: "If anything can go wrong, it will go wrong." That's why you have to constantly pursue Continuous Improvement: to prevent Entropy from destroying the Universe. In the engineering world, Entropy is the Evil One... Entropy is the Devil... Entropy is Satan..
Of course, this is sheer ignorance of what evolution really is. Devolution is just as possible (and likely) as evolution. Darwin certainly thought so and said so.
That's the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics, dude... ENTROPY!!! The natural tendency of everything in the universe to go to hell in a handbag...
#96. To: Willie Green, TooConservative (#95) (Edited)
WHICH is exactly why Evolution can not be proven, but is impossible as well, while Devolution has been nature's/God's order of everything. From the moment of the Fall (at the behest of the Evil One), God's good earth and His material universe were designed....to erode, degrade, and die. ALL of it. It has an Expiration Date. Stephen King's Langoliers book/movie was sort of his take on this. You are both likely familiar with the experiments on accelerated fruit fly generations. In time scientists observed (to their utter dismay) that instead of evolving or strengthened the organism one iota, their DNA deteriorated. Ideas may "evolve," but not this material universe. Nor has it ever.
"If anything can go wrong, it will go wrong." That's the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics, dude... ENTROPY!!! The natural tendency of everything in the universe to go to hell in a handbag...
#97. To: Willie Green (#95)
No, it isn't. The universe is not that fragile. We don't really know enough about the universe to make pompous proclamations. We greatly overestimate the extent of our knowledge.
That's why you have to constantly pursue Continuous Improvement: to prevent Entropy from destroying the Universe.
#98. To: TooConservative (#93)
Unless they were dinosaurs that lived "65 million years ago " as decreed by Science's Counsel of High Priests.
Gigantism is especially hated by Darwin and his elvish helpers.
#99. To: Liberator (#96)
Your remarks remind me a little of some of the ancient gnostics. How the material world was evil and corrupt, the idea that the Creator was corrupt and evil entity who different from the God of the NT. Not that I'm suggesting you are gnostic or any such thing. It is an interesting take, a markedly decadent universe. The flip side of the everything-is-getting-better-in-every-way progressive types.
From the moment of the Fall (at the behest of the Evil One), God's good earth and His material universe were designed....to erode, degrade, and die. ALL of it. It has an Expiration Date.
#100. To: Liberator (#98)
Many other species still with us today were much much larger in ancient times.
Unless they were dinosaurs that lived "65 million years ago " as decreed by Science's Counsel of High Priests.
#101. To: redleghunter, TooConservative, Don, Willie Green (#90)
They will eventually embrace (some do now) some pagan pantheism to 'splain' things. Everything under the sun (or universe) other than a Sovereign and Eternal God. Occam's Razor (in reverse.) Totally IL-logical. And ironic. Somehow, Science's Gospel of Dis-provable/Impossible Theory became the official religion of Atheism, Secular Humanism, and Trekkies. As a rhetorical aside, with respect to the inextricable implications of the Second Law of Thermodynamics, where has all the energy dissipated to since "On The First Day..."? Aaaah -- Entropy and the chaos of...Satan. As a related political aside -- 0bola, his regime, and his co-collaborators have done nothing but facilitate and accelerate the entropy of the state, while the Deists, Atheists, New Agers, homofascists, Islam, etal. have aided and abetted as well. Had Maxwell Smart only beaten KAOS back in the 60s....
Atheists are always looking for the next 'angle' to explain things they can't explain with real science.
#102. To: TooConservative (#99)
Don't know whether the ancient gnostics were whispered sweet rotten nothings into their ear, but Satan's MO has always been to serve up a bit of Truth with Lies. God is still blamed for all things that go bad, isn't He? It is an interesting take, a markedly decadent universe. The flip side of the everything-is-getting-better-in-every-way progressive types. I guess the "take" is a matter of history, Scripture, science (The Second Law of Thermodynamics), and math when it comes down to it. Yeah, it's mostly Progressive/Kumbaya-types who believe Mother Earth is a living breathing entity with a soul who just needs to be coddled, cuddled, and....worshiped. #FOREVER.
Your remarks remind me a little of some of the ancient gnostics. How the material world was evil and corrupt, the idea that the Creator was corrupt and evil entity who different from the God of the NT.
#103. To: Liberator (#101)
It just keeps expanding the Universe further and further apart until eventually it dissipates in the cold emptiness of infinity.
where has all the energy dissipated to since "On The First Day..."?
#104. To: TooConservative (#100)
Yup. Not gonna bore you with details, BUT....after The Great Flood, the earth changed dramatically (yes, I realize that theory will be challenged.) The sedentary fossils do provide that evidence of much larger creatures (yes, including T-Rex and Bronto-Burgers, who didn't quite make it :-(
Many other species still with us today were much much larger in ancient times.
#105. To: Willie Green (#103)
The "infinity" of Time or Space? Or both? MUST there necessarily be a scientific explanation for material effluent? THOUGHT: Could the material effluent well transition into another dimension beyond the material universe? After all, aren't our souls, our essence NOT of this material world?
....Eventually it dissipates in the cold emptiness of infinity.
#106. To: Liberator (#105)
I don't know...
I figger I'm gonna be worm food long before the Universe ends, so I don't fret about it much.
Besides... it sounds way too gloomy, dismal and lonely for me...
I'm kinda glad that I probably won't be around to see it.
#107. To: TooConservative, liberator, A K A Stone (#92)
That is possible. It depends on the historical context given in Moses time of this: Genesis 1: 14 Then God said, “Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs and seasons, and for days and years; 15 and let them be for lights in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth”; and it was so. 16 Then God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night. He made the stars also. 17 God set them in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth, 18 and to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 So the evening and the morning were the fourth day. Were the seasons measured just by our solar system heavenly bodies or were what they would consider the greater constellations created that same day as well? That can be an entry level consideration. Then again we have this...."He made the stars also."
What if Genesis describes only the creation of our own planet and solar system and no more?
"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." (1 Peter 1:23)
#108. To: Liberator (#101)
:)
Had Maxwell Smart only beaten KAOS back in the 60s....
"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." (1 Peter 1:23)
#109. To: Willie Green, liberator (#103)
Willie you like eco fast trains. Did they always exist? No, someone wrote the blueprints, gathered the materials, engineered the materials and built the trains. Someone designed everything we see.
It just keeps expanding the Universe further and further apart until eventually it dissipates in the cold emptiness of infinity.
"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." (1 Peter 1:23)
#110. To: TooConservative, liberator, GarySpFc (#92)
Without a cause or prime mover.
So Big Bang is a lot of instant creationism
"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." (1 Peter 1:23)
#111. To: redleghunter (#110)
Science can't deal with motives or matters for which it can derive no evidence. To put it in slanted terms, both Big Bang and creationism are varieties of the Big Poof. As opposed to this new theory of a truly static and eternal universe which we might call Stasis. Or the Big Theory of Same Old Same Old.
Without a cause or prime mover.
#112. To: Willie Green, Don, TooConservative, liberator (#91)
Fundamentally, I remain an acolyte of the process of Continuous Improvement...
"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." (1 Peter 1:23)
#113. To: redleghunter (#59)
We can conclude they were solar revolutions, though perhaps not 24 hours. This is if we translate "or" as "light", and "Hhosekh" as "darkness", such that a "yom" - a "day" is a period of "light and darkness". However, "or" also means order. In fact, the word "order" comes from the Hebrew root "or", which is what God created first. Did he say "let there be 'light'"? No, he said "Yehyeh Or" - which can be just as accurately translated as "Order will be" as it is translated "Light will be". Breath and spirit are the same thing in Hebrew. So are Order and Light. The chaos is darkness, Hhoshekh, which God walls off with Order. So, is a "Yom" a period of Light and Darkness? Or is it a period of Order and Disorder? It is literally either one. The translator decides what he prefers. The language itself says both things simultaneously. Our ordered periods of light and dark are day and night, but even at night there is light, less of it. A literal read of Genesis can lead one to the traditional read, but it can also lead one to a very different comprehsion, of God imposing order, by his spirit, upon chaos, and bringing order up out of it. And that doesn't so much have to do with solar revolutions, even when solar revolutions are happening. What I am saying is that, actually, nobody gets a win on this. Literally it says both things, and the pictographs paint both things. The real truth is that God very probably uses light and darkness as visible symbols of what he is really doing, with order and chaos, energy and entropy, exactly as the poet uses fleece as symbols for white teeth, but even white teeth as a harbinger of the REAL essence of the poem, which is beauty and love. God is more intelligent than Einstein, and a better poet than Shakespeare. Usually he LITERALLY means two, or four, or fifteen separate things all at the same time, and all of them literally, which is why there were 12 Apostles and not just one Prophet.
After day 4, we can logically conclude all days were 24 hour days as the sun, moon and stars were created on day 4.
#114. To: Willie Green (#71)
Except that it has slowed down since the beginning.
No, the speed of light is a known constant
#115. To: TooConservative (#111)
Elton John is their mascot.
To put it in slanted terms, both Big Bang and creationism are varieties of the Big Poof.
#116. To: TooConservative (#97)
About sums it all up.
We greatly overestimate the extent of our knowledge.
"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." (1 Peter 1:23)
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