In verse 10 John sets out one practical application of how to defend the truth: If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house. Hospitality for traveling teachers was common in the culture (cf. Luke 9:1-6; 10:1-12). The prohibition here is not to turn away the ignorant; it does not mean that believers may not invite unbelieverseven those who belong to a cult or false religioninto their midst. That would make giving the truth to them difficult, if not impossible. The point is that believers are not to welcome and provide care for traveling false teachers, who seek to stay in their homes, thereby giving the appearance of affirming what they teach and lending them credibility
Johns use of the conjunction ei (if) with an indicative verb indicates a condition that is likely true. Apparently, the lady to whom he wrote had for whatever reason, in the name of Christian fellowship, already welcomed false teachers into her home. It was just such compassionate, well-meaning people that the false teachers sought out (cf. 2 Tim. 3:6); since churches were supposed to be protected by elders who were skilled teachers of the Word (1 Tim. 3:2; Titus 1:9), they should have been less susceptible to the lies propagated by the deceivers. Having established themselves in homes, the false teachers hoped eventually to worm their way into the churches. It is much the same today, as false teaching insidiously invades Christian homes through television, radio, the Internet, and literature.
So threatening are these emissaries of Satan that Jo[h]n went on to forbid even giving them a greeting; for the one who gives him a greeting participates in his evil deeds. Irenaeus relates that the church father Polycarp, when asked by the notorious heretic Marcion, Do you know me? replied, I do know youthe firstborn of Satan (Against Heresies, 3.3.4). John himself once encountered Cerinthus (another notorious heretic) in a public bathhouse in Ephesus. Instead of greeting him, however, John turned and fled, exclaiming to those with him, Let us fly, lest even the bath-house fall down, because Cerinthus, the enemy of the truth, is within (Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 3.3.4).
Yep, and every time I break wind from the beans the sound it makes is: "Buckeroo."
I like buckeroo. I recall a memorable thread at 4um where the two of us valiantly defended the poor Israeli bulldozer that was so viciously attacked by that invader, Rachel Corrie.
Of which you can then strike up a conversation with your would be vandals and show them...
Maybe Isaiah 61: 1-2 could be the bumper-sticker on the right side of the rear bumper. Vandals and cowards aren't usually are caught in the act, or stick around too long :-)
People like to add in billions of years to fit an unproven scientific theory.
No, the speed of light is a known constant, so the approximate size and age of the known Universe is readily calculable.
The problem is that, 5000 years ago, nomadic Jewish shepherds didn't have the Internet or Wikipedia to look-up these scientific facts. They had to jot it all down in indecipherable hieroglyphics on crumbly parchment paper. Cripes, they even did it bass-ackwards right-to-left instead of writing it left-to-right like modern, civilized people do.
I recall a memorable thread at 4um where the two of us valiantly defended the poor Israeli bulldozer that was so viciously attacked by that invader, Rachel Corrie.
I forget why I got banned there... maybe for defending Goldi-Lox... but who knows? That water went over the dam long, long ago...
But if you ever come across Jethro Tull, send him my regards... we didn't always see eye-to-eye (nobody ever does) but Jethro was always good for a civil, intelligent discussion.
And recall how Jesus taught the people how to pray to the Father....at His Sermon on the Mount? IN PUBLIC!!
Jesus got off on a technicality, having specifically warned them against rote recitations (like Our Fathers and Hail Marys to give an example that conveniently comes to mind).
Very lawyerly instructions on how to pray.
And despite His warnings against rote prayer, hundreds of millions of Christians use that specific prayer as a rote recital prayer, unaware of the irony.
#75. To: TooConservative, redleghunter, Vicomte13, Willie Green (#67)
A real god of this universe would consider Earth a small operation among His vast holdings.
You mean this McEarth may be one of God's tiny franchises??
Maybe God's written a "Genesis" account for billions of planets. With several billion VERY busy "Sons" serving and spreading the Gospel to Clingons and Romulans, etal.
am not some 5000 year-old nomadic Jewish shepard boy. I'm a modern-day American who is well educated both in the fudamental tenets of my religious faith AND the scientific facts that reveals the mysteries of God's wonderous universe far beyond the comprehension level of illiterate, 5000-year-old-nomads.
In revealing Genesis to those nomadic tribes, it wasn't God's purpose to educate them with a complex understanding of cosmology & astrophysics. Nor did he intend the Creation Story to include a detailed explanation of DNA/biochemistry/microbiology & evolution.
The Bible and Modern Science are NOT incompatible. I think it's a shame that you have been duped by atheists into thinking that they are.
Jesus got off on a technicality, having specifically warned them against rote recitations (like Our Fathers and Hail Marys to give an example that conveniently comes to mind).
Very lawyerly instructions on how to pray.
Chyeah -- like HE wuz soooo special?? Well, it's not as though Jesus instructed repetition in the 'Our Father.' (Unless of course as part of penance in the Confessional thru Father Flanagan.) As to a 'Hail Mary,' "Go looong! I'll hit you with a bomb, Homes!"
Yes, "lawyerly," but The Mount was as public as can be (Jesus: "Is this mike on??") I'll provide other accounts: Mealtime Grace; Leading two or more in prayer. We discern between that and a peanut vendor at Yankee Stadium.
Vandals and cowards aren't usually are caught in the act, or stick around too long :-)
There's a loud mouth where I work always telling everyone else how much more 'Conservative' he is compared to the rest of us. FWIW all of us are military veterans, so of course the comments are not well taken.
I'm thinking of getting magnet bumper stickers for his car. One with "COEXIST" and the other "Veterans for Obola."
Do you think that would be uncharitable. I mean they are magnetic type stickers and not permanent:)
"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." (1 Peter 1:23)
There's a loud mouth where I work always telling everyone else how much more 'Conservative' he is compared to the rest of us. FWIW all of us are military veterans, so of course the comments are not well taken.
"Conservative" in what context??
I'm thinking of getting magnet bumper stickers for his car. One with "COEXIST" and the other "Veterans for Obola." Do you think that would be uncharitable. I mean they are magnetic type stickers and not permanent:)
No, the speed of light is a known constant, so the approximate size and age of the known Universe is readily calculable.
The problem is that, 5000 years ago, nomadic Jewish shepherds didn't have the Internet or Wikipedia to look-up these scientific facts. They had to jot it all down in indecipherable hieroglyphics on crumbly parchment paper. Cripes, they even did it bass-ackwards right-to-left instead of writing it left-to-right like modern, civilized people do.
If that makes you feel better at cocktail parties, Willie, drive on.
Creation was a miracle just as Christ fed the 5000 with a few fish and loaves.
I will ask the question I normally do at this point.
Are the miracles of Christ recorded in the Gospels and proclaimed in the NT epistles literal? Meaning did they happen as recorded in Scriptures?
"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." (1 Peter 1:23)
Yes, "lawyerly," but The Mount was as public as can be (Jesus: "Is this mike on??")
Let's look at the source in Matthew 6 (KJV):
6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.
9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day our daily bread.
Jesus instructs to pray in secret (not in groups reciting prayers) and to avoid rote prayers altogether.
Modern Christians of almost every flavor disregard these clear commands from their Savior at least once a year and flaunt their defiance of Jesus in unity. Some of them wear Christian jewelry or T-shirts while doing it, also contrary to Christ's command on such public displays of self-righteous holiness in apparel.
The Biblical tenants and science are incompatible when science contradicts the Holy Bible. Science is always contradicting itself. How often has science findings changed previous scientific findings?
If that makes you feel better at cocktail parties, Willie, drive on.
Those cocktail parties are a little less smug than you imagine.
Big Bang does have some problems and contradictions, the most glaring of which is its lack of explanation for what happened before the Big Bang.
A rising theory is that the universe was never created at all and has existed from all eternity in largely the form it has today. While light matter and dark matter and their associated energy may alter over time, sometimes spectacularly, it doesn't change the overall eternal nature and composition of the universe.
I actually like this better than Big Bang which I always found lacking.
What chapter and verse are you referencing in your statement about the Bible and apparel. I have no problem with wearing such T-Shirts as you mentioned. It is time that more people talk more about Christ.
A rising theory is that the universe was never created at all and has existed from all eternity in largely the form it has today. While light matter and dark matter and their associated energy may alter over time, sometimes spectacularly, it doesn't change the overall eternal nature and composition of the universe.
I actually like this better than Big Bang which I always found lacking.
Atheists are always looking for the next 'angle' to explain things they can't explain with real science.
They will eventually embrace (some do now) some pagan pantheism to 'splain' things.
Everything under the sun (or universe) other than a Sovereign and Eternal God.
The notion of "everything has always been" meme is so detached of reason, logic and even common sense. As everything is in decay. If something has an end (which we can observe) it has a beginning (which we can observe as well through procreation). The sheer madness of their darkened pursuits of any explanation other than God is saddening.
"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." (1 Peter 1:23)
The Biblical tenants and science are incompatible when science contradicts the Holy Bible. Science is always contradicting itself. How often has science findings changed previous scientific findings?
The notion of "everything has always been" meme is so detached of reason, logic and even common sense. As everything is in decay. If something has an end (which we can observe) it has a beginning (which we can observe as well through procreation).
I'll observe that the Genesis creation account does share a certain sudden poof-factor with the Big Bang theory. Both are of a sudden massive creation from nothing.
So Big Bang is a lot of instant creationism (as with Genesis) but with no God involved.
What if Genesis describes only the creation of our own planet and solar system and no more?
I remain an acolyte of the process of Continuous Improvement...
As ridiculous as your analogs among the evolutionists.
Of course, this is sheer ignorance of what evolution really is. Devolution is just as possible (and likely) as evolution. Darwin certainly thought so and said so.
It is the liberal types who like to believe that "everything is getting better in every way" who have mangled Darwin's work in this way.
Gigantism is especially hated by Darwin and his elvish helpers.
I wasn't banned... I opused out when AssClown Robinson declared himself more "conservative" than Paul Weyrich and censored discussion of passenger rail issues because it was a subversive communist plot:
Over 35 million Americans rely on some form of public tansportation to commute to work every weekday. If that makes them "marxist" in your worldview, then I suggest that you refrain from hanging out with the whacknut libertarians. They obviously have been a bad influence on you.
60 posted on 10/14/2010, 4:06:27 PM by Willie Green (Go Pat Go!!!)
That was my last post in the Echo Chamber... I don't kowtow to JimRob's abusive mind control. If you want to talk about creepy cult leaders, you can't leave JimRob off the list.
Of course, this is sheer ignorance of what evolution really is. Devolution is just as possible (and likely) as evolution. Darwin certainly thought so and said so.
Don't go misinterpreting what I said.
Just because I told you that I'm an acolyte of Continuous Improvement on this thread, don't go forgetting that I've also recently declared myself a firm believer in Murphy's Law: "If anything can go wrong, it will go wrong." That's the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics, dude... ENTROPY!!! The natural tendency of everything in the universe to go to hell in a handbag...
That's why you have to constantly pursue Continuous Improvement: to prevent Entropy from destroying the Universe.
In the engineering world, Entropy is the Evil One... Entropy is the Devil... Entropy is Satan..
#96. To: Willie Green, TooConservative (#95)(Edited)
"If anything can go wrong, it will go wrong." That's the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics, dude... ENTROPY!!! The natural tendency of everything in the universe to go to hell in a handbag...
WHICH is exactly why Evolution can not be proven, but is impossible as well, while Devolution has been nature's/God's order of everything.
From the moment of the Fall (at the behest of the Evil One), God's good earth and His material universe were designed....to erode, degrade, and die. ALL of it. It has an Expiration Date. Stephen King's Langoliers book/movie was sort of his take on this.
You are both likely familiar with the experiments on accelerated fruit fly generations. In time scientists observed (to their utter dismay) that instead of evolving or strengthened the organism one iota, their DNA deteriorated.
Ideas may "evolve," but not this material universe. Nor has it ever.
From the moment of the Fall (at the behest of the Evil One), God's good earth and His material universe were designed....to erode, degrade, and die. ALL of it. It has an Expiration Date.
Your remarks remind me a little of some of the ancient gnostics. How the material world was evil and corrupt, the idea that the Creator was corrupt and evil entity who different from the God of the NT. Not that I'm suggesting you are gnostic or any such thing.
It is an interesting take, a markedly decadent universe. The flip side of the everything-is-getting-better-in-every-way progressive types.
#101. To: redleghunter, TooConservative, Don, Willie Green (#90)
Atheists are always looking for the next 'angle' to explain things they can't explain with real science.
They will eventually embrace (some do now) some pagan pantheism to 'splain' things.
Everything under the sun (or universe) other than a Sovereign and Eternal God.
Occam's Razor (in reverse.)
Totally IL-logical. And ironic. Somehow, Science's Gospel of Dis-provable/Impossible Theory became the official religion of Atheism, Secular Humanism, and Trekkies.
As a rhetorical aside, with respect to the inextricable implications of the Second Law of Thermodynamics, where has all the energy dissipated to since "On The First Day..."? Aaaah -- Entropy and the chaos of...Satan.
As a related political aside -- 0bola, his regime, and his co-collaborators have done nothing but facilitate and accelerate the entropy of the state, while the Deists, Atheists, New Agers, homofascists, Islam, etal. have aided and abetted as well.
Had Maxwell Smart only beaten KAOS back in the 60s....
Your remarks remind me a little of some of the ancient gnostics. How the material world was evil and corrupt, the idea that the Creator was corrupt and evil entity who different from the God of the NT.
Don't know whether the ancient gnostics were whispered sweet rotten nothings into their ear, but Satan's MO has always been to serve up a bit of Truth with Lies. God is still blamed for all things that go bad, isn't He?
It is an interesting take, a markedly decadent universe. The flip side of the everything-is-getting-better-in-every-way progressive types.
I guess the "take" is a matter of history, Scripture, science (The Second Law of Thermodynamics), and math when it comes down to it.
Yeah, it's mostly Progressive/Kumbaya-types who believe Mother Earth is a living breathing entity with a soul who just needs to be coddled, cuddled, and....worshiped. #FOREVER.
Many other species still with us today were much much larger in ancient times.
Yup.
Not gonna bore you with details, BUT....after The Great Flood, the earth changed dramatically (yes, I realize that theory will be challenged.) The sedentary fossils do provide that evidence of much larger creatures (yes, including T-Rex and Bronto-Burgers, who didn't quite make it :-(
....Eventually it dissipates in the cold emptiness of infinity.
The "infinity" of Time or Space? Or both? MUST there necessarily be a scientific explanation for material effluent?
THOUGHT: Could the material effluent well transition into another dimension beyond the material universe? After all, aren't our souls, our essence NOT of this material world?
I don't know... I figger I'm gonna be worm food long before the Universe ends, so I don't fret about it much. Besides... it sounds way too gloomy, dismal and lonely for me... I'm kinda glad that I probably won't be around to see it.
#107. To: TooConservative, liberator, A K A Stone (#92)
What if Genesis describes only the creation of our own planet and solar system and no more?
That is possible. It depends on the historical context given in Moses time of this:
Genesis 1:
14 Then God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs and seasons, and for days and years; 15 and let them be for lights in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth; and it was so. 16 Then God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night. He made the stars also. 17 God set them in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth, 18 and to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 So the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
Were the seasons measured just by our solar system heavenly bodies or were what they would consider the greater constellations created that same day as well?
That can be an entry level consideration.
Then again we have this...."He made the stars also."
"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." (1 Peter 1:23)