In verse 10 John sets out one practical application of how to defend the truth: If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house. Hospitality for traveling teachers was common in the culture (cf. Luke 9:1-6; 10:1-12). The prohibition here is not to turn away the ignorant; it does not mean that believers may not invite unbelieverseven those who belong to a cult or false religioninto their midst. That would make giving the truth to them difficult, if not impossible. The point is that believers are not to welcome and provide care for traveling false teachers, who seek to stay in their homes, thereby giving the appearance of affirming what they teach and lending them credibility
Johns use of the conjunction ei (if) with an indicative verb indicates a condition that is likely true. Apparently, the lady to whom he wrote had for whatever reason, in the name of Christian fellowship, already welcomed false teachers into her home. It was just such compassionate, well-meaning people that the false teachers sought out (cf. 2 Tim. 3:6); since churches were supposed to be protected by elders who were skilled teachers of the Word (1 Tim. 3:2; Titus 1:9), they should have been less susceptible to the lies propagated by the deceivers. Having established themselves in homes, the false teachers hoped eventually to worm their way into the churches. It is much the same today, as false teaching insidiously invades Christian homes through television, radio, the Internet, and literature.
So threatening are these emissaries of Satan that Jo[h]n went on to forbid even giving them a greeting; for the one who gives him a greeting participates in his evil deeds. Irenaeus relates that the church father Polycarp, when asked by the notorious heretic Marcion, Do you know me? replied, I do know youthe firstborn of Satan (Against Heresies, 3.3.4). John himself once encountered Cerinthus (another notorious heretic) in a public bathhouse in Ephesus. Instead of greeting him, however, John turned and fled, exclaiming to those with him, Let us fly, lest even the bath-house fall down, because Cerinthus, the enemy of the truth, is within (Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 3.3.4).
Does that include prayer in church? Or just private prayer?
And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. -- Mathhew 6:5
Question: "If Jesus condemned the Pharisees for praying out loud, should we pray aloud?"
Answer: There are several references in the New Testament to public prayers that are unacceptable, and it is true that Jesus condemned the Pharisees manner of praying. But Jesus Himself prayed out loud on occasion (see John 17), as did the apostles (Acts 8:15; 16:25; 20:36). Acts 1:14 says, "They all joined together constantly in prayer, along with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brothers." Then in verse 24, the apostles prayed together to choose someone to fill Judas' spot among the twelve. They were clearly praying together and out loud. So, the sin was not in the public nature of the prayer or the fact that people could hear it.
In Luke 18:10-14, Jesus gives this parable: Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: God, I thank you that I am not like other people robbers, evildoers, adulterersor even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get. But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, God, have mercy on me, a sinner. I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted. Notice that the tax collector also prayed aloud, but his prayer was from a humble heart, and God accepted it. The sin of the Pharisees was not public prayer but a haughty spirit.
Later, Jesus says, "Beware of the scribes, who like to walk around in long robes, and love greetings in the marketplaces and the best seats in the synagogues and the places of honor at feasts, who devour widows houses and for a pretense make long prayers. They will receive the greater condemnation" (Luke 20:46-47). Here the sin is not the audible nature of the prayer but its pretentiousness. Jesus condemns the hypocrisy of pretending to have a relationship with God while oppressing the very people He loves.
Then in Matthew 6:5, Jesus says, "And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full." Again, Jesus is not condemning the fact that people prayed aloud, but that they were putting on a public display for their own benefit. Their motiveto be seen of menwas the problem. Such prayer is not real prayer, but empty words meant for the ears of other people (Hebrews 10:22). Proverbs 15:29 says, "The LORD is far from the wicked but he hears the prayer of the righteous."
In Ephesians 5:20, Paul instructs the church to "give thanks always and for everything to God the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ." Communal prayer is one way a local church worships God and encourages one another. What Jesus condemns is arrogance and hypocrisy. For someone who is clearly disobedient to God to lead a public prayer as though he or she had much to brag about is the kind of hypocrisy that Jesus denounced. To use public prayer as a means of showing off or impressing others is wrong. But sincere prayer from a humble heart is always welcomed by God and can be an encouragement to those who hear it (Psalm 51:17).
There are Christian cults that don't deny Christ. Most of the ancient heresies that pop up again and again are connected with whether Christ had one body or two or one spirit or two. A lot of mischief arose over the roles of the Persons of the Trinity in relation to each other.
This is a nice page at ChurchHistory101.com that briefly describes the major ancient heresies. They make a short mention of Marcion. He became a teacher and produced the first major version of the bible that was widely available. It consisted only of Paul's epistles and the book of Luke. And no mentions of hell at all. It proved so popular at the time that it actually led to the church establishment of the era to adopt the canon of scripture we still use today following the list first circulated by Athanasius, a hero of the fight against Arianism heresy. (Arianism insisted that Christ was not eternal but was created by the Father.)
Anyway, this is how we got the bibles we have because the bishops finally realized that someone had to produce an official recognized canon of books. Lots of heretical books were floating around at the time, phony religious texts like the Gospel of Judas and hundreds of others.
Gary is a real expert at this stuff, has really impressive resources. It often surprises me that people don't find this stuff as fascinating as I do but I guess it's pretty ancient news so it's considered dull. Yet, these same heresies pop up century after century in one form or another.
They just don't follow the Bible literally. Which is a problem.
Following the Bible literally is itself problematic and misleading if passages are interpreted out of context.
Song of Soloman 4:1~2 (KJV):
1 Behold, thou art fair, my love; behold, thou art fair; thou hast doves' eyes within thy locks: thy hair is as a flock of goats, that appear from mount Gilead. 2 Thy teeth are like a flock of sheep that are even shorn, which came up from the washing; whereof every one bear twins, and none is barren among them.
Hair like a flock of goats? Teeth like a flock of sheep? No, no, no, no, no.... we do not take every word of the Bible literally. It must be read in it's proper context to be understood. The nomadic tribes of the Middle East were very simple people 3 to 5 thousand years ago. The Lord revealed His Word to them in ways that THEY could understand, so we need to strive to understand the way that THEY would understand it, not the way that WE would take it literally.
To use public prayer as a means of showing off or impressing others is wrong.
As Jesus clearly stated in Mathhew 6, people who pray in public are mostly showing off to impress others.
Sincere prayer comes from deep private and personal reflection that leads to repentance.
Screaming PRAISE THE LORD in a room full people at a mega-church with a slicked back preacher and a rock band is a modern version of the hypocrits that Jesus condemned.
#28. To: Willie Green, A K A Stone, redleghunter (#26)
Hair like a flock of goats? Teeth like a flock of sheep? No, no, no, no, no.... we do not take every word of the Bible literally.
John Gill offers this commentary. You really should understand that there is no taking literally any work of ancient poetry, especially translated from another ancient language. If you read poetic works literally, you've kinda missed the point from the get-go.
thy hair is as a flock of goats, that appear from mount Gilead.
that appear from Mount Gilead; or rather "on Mount Gilead", as Noldius: Gilead was a mountain in the land of Israel, beyond Jordan, famous for pasturage for cattle, where flocks of goats were fed, as was usual on mountains (s); and, being well fed, their hair was long, smooth, neat, and glistering; and so to spectators, at a distance, looked very beautiful and lovely; especially in the morning at sun rising, and, glancing on them with its bright and glittering rays, were delightful. So R. Jonah, from the use of the word in the Arabic language, which signifies the morning, interprets it, which "rise early in the morning"; and which, as Schultens (t) observes, some render,
"leading to water early in the morning;"
the Vulgate Latin version is, "that ascend from Mount Gilead", from a lower to a higher part of it; which is approved of by Bochart (u).
Translation: even in ancient times, blondes had more fun.
Thy teeth are like a flock of sheep that are even shorn, which came up from the washing; whereof every one bear twins, and none is barren among them.
Son 4:2 - Thy teeth are like a flock of sheep,.... That is, like the teeth of a flock of sheep; as her eyes were like the eyes of doves, and her hair like the hair of goats: and Galen long ago observed, that human teeth are much like the teeth of sheep, in figure, order, and structure, as well as are small and white; neatly set, innocent and harmless, not ravenous and voracious, cropping herbs and grass only (w); the whiteness of the teeth is chiefly intended, in which the beauty of them lies, for which they are sometimes compared (x) to Parian marble for whiteness. The Targum interprets these teeth of the priests and Levites; but it is much better to understand them of the ministers of the Gospel: teeth are bony, solid, firm, and strong, sharp to cut and break the food, and prepare it for the stomach: all which well agree with ministers; who are strong in the Lord, and in his grace, to labour in the word and doctrine; to oppose gainsayers, withstand Satan's temptations; bear the reproaches of the world, and the infirmities of weaker saints; and remain firm and unmoved in their ministry; unshaken by all they meet with, from without and from within: they are sharp to rebuke such who are unsound in the faith, or corrupt in their morals, and to penetrate into Gospel truths; to cut and rightly divide the word of truth, and break the bread of life to others, and so chew and prepare spiritual food for souls; not raw and crude; not hard and difficult of digestion, but plain and easy to be understood. And they are like to a flock of sheep,
that are even shorn; on which no wool is left, sticking out here and there; which is another good property of teeth, that are of equal size and bigness, do not stand out, nor rise up one above another; and are as if they had been "cut and planed, and made alike" (y), as some render the word: which may denote the equality of Gospel ministers in power and authority; one having no superiority over another; all having the same mission and commission, employed in the same work, preaching the same Gospel; and though their gifts are different, yet there is a harmony and agreement in the doctrines they preach;
which came up from the washing; white and clean, which is another property of good teeth; as the teeth of sheep be, and they themselves are, when just come up out of the washing pit: this may signify the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost, which are necessary to ministers of the word, in order to preach it; and more especially the purity of their lives and conversations, in which they should be examples to the flock;
whereof everyone bear twins, and none is barren among them; the figures are just and beautiful; it is common with sheep to bear twins, or more, in the eastern countries, as the philosopher observes (z); frequent mention is made of goats bearing twins (a): these may answer to the two rows of teeth, and the word for "teeth" is in the dual number; and when these are white and clean, and equal, are well set, and not one wanting, none rotten, nor shed, nor fallen out, look very beautiful.
Translation: chicks with white, even, clean teeth and no missing teeth are totally hot.
Look, Willie, it's a translation of ancient tribal Hebrew poetry. Much as you find this passage obscure, these ancient Jews would not really grasp the poetic allusions and devices in Shakespeare's work any more readily.
Poetry is most often a series of word-pictures, used to evoke feelings, to cast words in a visual sense (instead of mere dry description). Poetry goes beyond works of persuasion or rote knowledge or logic or storytelling narratives. BTW, I'm not a big fan of poetry at all.
I like the KJV for this passage because the translation shows italics wherever the translators inserted words that are not literal, to make it read better in English. But some passages in the bible actually read better in the KJV and this is an example of that. Read it, omitting the italics. It does read rather poetically.
Son 4:1 Behold, thou art fair, my love; behold, thou art fair; thou hast doves' eyes within thy locks: thy hair is as a flock of goats, that appear from mount Gilead. Son 4:2 Thy teeth are like a flock of sheep that are even shorn, which came up from the washing; whereof every one bear twins, and none is barren among them.
To me, the KJV is far more desirable in some passages of scripture. It conveys somewhat better the sense of the language. The translators had considerable literary talents they brought to bear on their translation.
As Jesus clearly stated in Mathhew 6, people who pray in public are mostly showing off to impress others.
Sincere prayer comes from deep private and personal reflection that leads to repentance.
Here is an example of Jesus praying out loud. So you are wrong.
These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.
8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.
9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.
11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
13 And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.
14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
25 O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.
26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.
Look, Willie, it's a translation of ancient tribal Hebrew poetry. Much as you find this passage obscure, these ancient Jews would not really grasp the poetic allusions and devices in Shakespeare's work any more readily.
Oh I certainly agree... nor would I expect them to grasp Carl Sagan's Cosmos & the Big Bang Theory and the billions of years that it actually took God to create the Universe... But that's why we don't read Genesis literally... the ancient Jews were simple people, and God explained Creation to them in terms that they could understand.
Theory and the billions of years that it actually took God to create the Universe...
I am most curious what you base that nonsense of billions of years on. Can you explain it or is it something that was spoon fed to you and you never questioned it?
The decisions you have made in life have led you to where you are at today. If you had believed the good book and not discounted its teachings you wouldn't be a leftist today.
Modify your beliefs. You will then make different decisions. Which will lead you out of the fog that leftists are invariably in.
I'm talking about people who don't take Genesis literally for example. Like probably you.
Yeah, well I'm not very evangelical about it, so I'm not gonna try to convert you to my beliefs, just as I doubt that you'll make much headway trying to convert me... So that's why I seldom discuss this topic and try to stick to more secular issues: energy, transportation, education, economy, etc. etc.
Yeah, well I'm not very evangelical about it, so I'm not gonna try to convert you to my beliefs, just as I doubt that you'll make much headway trying to convert me... So that's why I seldom discuss this topic and try to stick to more secular issues: energy, transportation, education, economy, etc. etc.
Yeah it is hard to change someones deeply held long term beliefs.
I believe if you took another look with an open mind. If possible. You could change your mind about billions of years.
Well without casting stones, the problem is that there's no consensus among the various mainstream Christian denominations as to what those doctrines are.
Sure there are Willie. I just gave you the Scriptural principles held by all Christians. If they don't meet the criteria stated and claim they are Christian then that group is a cult.
Now different denominations may claim others are in error, but won't kick them out the door or deny fellowship.
"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." (1 Peter 1:23)
And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. -- Mathhew 6:5
It's pretty clear to me...
So they are faux Christians in your view?
"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." (1 Peter 1:23)
Well yes in Scriptures there is the use of metaphorical language. Interpreting according to the grammatical, literal historical method is how the apostles approached interpreting Scriptures.
When we do see metaphor used in Scriptures they are usually direct metaphors. That is "A" is like "B". For example Jesus saying He was the bread of life. We know Jesus did not mean He was a loaf of bread. The Living Water. We know Jesus is not literally a well full of water we physically drink. I am the door. Jesus is not a wooden door. These were direct metaphors used to teach a spiritual truth.
"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." (1 Peter 1:23)
I can't look what is in their hearts. It's not for me to judge.
I can only read that Jesus condemned certain pubic behavior as being inherently corrupt.
I was raised that prayer is a personal and private matter. When you pray, it usually doesn't start as being a happy thing. True prayer involves sadness because you realize what a sinner that you are. True prayer results in being renewed, full of the Spirit who is there to keep you on the right path.
People who run around screaming PRAISE THE LORD make me very uncomfortable. It's an alien form of Christianity that fails to recognize the horrible trials and tribulations that Jesus suffered. And I won't do it because I believe that Jesus condemns it.
I think the difference is the Pharisees would publicly show up when the market was busiest and pray at the offering of the morning and evening sacrifice. Which they knew would maximize their display of prayer for all to see.
This was not only self centered but self righteousness. Jesus Christ pointed this out in the parable of the Pharisee and the Publican.
Contrast this with the selfless and loving worship and public proclamation of the Gospel of Grace we see in Acts. The difference being the focus is on Christ and not self.
"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." (1 Peter 1:23)
Where I used to go to church. There was this fat woman. I didn't care for her much because of her attitude. But she would start saying stuff like scl scil la me nooo dooo all ddeee ruuf oorr allleemay. She said she was speaking in tongues.
I think she was making it up and wanted to look spiritual to everyone.
I am most curious what you base that nonsense of billions of years on. Can you explain it or is it something that was spoon fed to you and you never questioned it? The decisions you have made in life have led you to where you are at today. If you had believed the good book and not discounted its teachings you wouldn't be a leftist today. Modify your beliefs. You will then make different decisions. Which will lead you out of the fog that leftists are invariably in.
I am not some 5000 year-old nomadic Jewish shepard boy. I'm a modern-day American who is well educated both in the fudamental tenets of my religious faith AND the scientific facts that reveals the mysteries of God's wonderous universe far beyond the comprehension level of illiterate, 5000-year-old-nomads.
In revealing Genesis to those nomadic tribes, it wasn't God's purpose to educate them with a complex understanding of cosmology & astrophysics. Nor did he intend the Creation Story to include a detailed explanation of DNA/biochemistry/microbiology & evolution.
The Bible and Modern Science are NOT incompatible. I think it's a shame that you have been duped by atheists into thinking that they are.
When we do see metaphor used in Scriptures they are usually direct metaphors. That is "A" is like "B". For example Jesus saying He was the bread of life. We know Jesus did not mean He was a loaf of bread. The Living Water. We know Jesus is not literally a well full of water we physically drink. I am the door. Jesus is not a wooden door. These were direct metaphors used to teach a spiritual truth.
Similarly, when God created the Universe, we know that a "day" didn't mean 24 hours from one sunrise to the next sunrise... but rather hundreds of millions and billions of years as the galaxies and stars and planets gradually unfolded & Life slowly evolved here on Earth.
I kinda like the high-white sparkling, polished teeth...
What do you mean by that?
Oh, I see, you mean the ones with teeth "like a flock of sheep that are even shorn, which came up from the washing; whereof every one bear twins, and none is barren among them."
#55. To: cranko, Vicomte13, liberator, TooConservative (#48)
The most sincere Christians I have ever met are people who hit the bottom of the barrel and had nowhere else to go.
Drug addicts, alcoholics, prostitutes, violent criminals -- people who hit rock bottom and found Christ. Jesus himself hung out with such people.
Hitting rock bottom is not a joyful thing. It's a painful experience that causes deep personal reflection.
Many Americans all too frequently forget this.
That is very true. Jesus came to heal the broken hearted and lost. In fact, we are all lost in one way or another. Hitting rock bottom, as you said, is horrible for someone to endure, but may just be the Grace God shows to a person to reveal freedom through Jesus Christ.
Only Jesus Christ can break our bonds of sin and death.
Hitting rock bottom in my observation is His Grace. People who plod on 'fat and happy' with the world and its traps and convince themselves they don't 'need' God or a Savior and they lift themselves up as their own god.
"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." (1 Peter 1:23)
Similarly, when God created the Universe, we know that a "day" didn't mean 24 hours from one sunrise to the next sunrise...
Our day or some undefined day in God's experience. Other scripture indicates that God does not experience a day in the way we do, like a thousand years being as a day to God.
Reading about the seven days of creation as though they are 24-hour days on planet earth isn't demonstrably accurate. We like it but that doesn't mean that it is true.
Hitting rock bottom in my observation is His Grace. People who plod on 'fat and happy' with the world and its traps and convince themselves they don't 'need' God or a Savior and they lift themselves up as their own god.
Would your post fit on my license plate frame? Or a bumper sticker?
IF it did, my car would be keyed in a parking lot in about 20 minutes. Self-proclaimed "gods" don't appreciate that type of "intolerance."
#59. To: Willie Green, Vicomte13, A K A Stone, TooConservative (#52)
Similarly, when God created the Universe, we know that a "day" didn't mean 24 hours from one sunrise to the next sunrise... but rather hundreds of millions and billions of years as the galaxies and stars and planets gradually unfolded & Life slowly evolved here on Earth.
Willie, Vic has done some exhaustive studies on the above so I pinged him.
After day 4, we can logically conclude all days were 24 hour days as the sun, moon and stars were created on day 4.
However, even on the first day of creation there is "let there be light" and we see recorded "So the evening and the morning were the first day."
We also see much later in Exodus the Israelites confirming a 6 day creation with a one day Sabbath.
People like to add in billions of years to fit an unproven scientific theory.
It usually makes them comfortable at cocktail parties with liberal atheists.
"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." (1 Peter 1:23)