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Title: Why Iran Believes ISIS is a U.S. Creation
Source:
Time (yeah, it still exists in dental offices)
URL Source: http://time.com/3720081/isis-iran-us-creation/
Published: Feb 26, 2015
Author: Kay Armin Serjoie
Post Date: 2015-03-01 08:09:05 by Tooconservative
Keywords: None
Views: 17143
Comments: 91
Iran has taken a lead role in defending the regime of Syrian President Bashar Assad and strengthening the Baghdad government in the war against the Islamic State of Iraq and Greater Syria (ISIS). But that doesn’t mean Iran views the United States as an ally in that war, even if they share a common enemy in ISIS. Abdullah Ganji, the managing-director of Javan newspaper, which is believed to closely reflect the views of the government and the powerful Iranian Revolutionary Guards, says that U.S. support for ISIS is in fact a way of ensuring Israel’s security and disrupting the Muslim world in the cause of advancing Western interests. “We believe that the West has been influential in the creation of ISIS for a number of reasons. First to engage Muslims against each other, to waste their energy and in this way Israel’s security would be guaranteed or at least enhanced,” says Ganji. “Secondly, an ugly, violent and homicidal face of Islam is presented to the world. And third, to create an inconvenience for Iran.” Iran’s relations with the U.S. have been strained since the 1979 Islamic Revolution ousted the U.S.-backed Shah of Iran and negotiations are currently underway between Iran and Western nations, including the U.S., to ensure the Islamic Republic does not produce nuclear weapons. Ganji went on to say that much of ISIS — its propaganda, structure and weapons — were all the work of the West. “A group that claims to be an Islamic one and has no sensitivity towards occupied Muslim lands in Palestine but is bent on killing Muslims as its first priority, it’s not a movement with roots in Islamic history. Not only many of its weapons but its methods of operation, its propaganda methods and many of its internal structures are Western, that’s why we are distrustful of the roots of ISIS,” he says. “As the Supreme Leader [Ayatollah Khamenei] also said, [the coalition forces] have on a number of times even made weapon drops for ISIS. How is it that they have laser-guided precision munitions and bombs but drop weapons for the wrong people? And not only once but at least a number of times,” he says, referring to incidents when weapons dropped from U.S. aircraft landed in ISIS-controlled areas rather than the intended Kurdish-controlled areas. “Iran cannot cooperate with the United States against ISIS because it doesn’t trust America, it doesn’t believe in their honesty in combatting ISIS. Iran can’t trust the U.S. to begin something and to continue to the end. It acts patronizingly and will change its path whenever it feels it is justified. We are also worried that the U.S. is using ISIS as a pretext to return its troops into Iraq,” Ganji says. “I believe that the U.S. prefers a weak ISIS that cannot be a major threat but will still cause inconvenience for Iran, Iraq and Syria and generally what they themselves called the Shiite crescent.” Poster Comment: I've read other reports that, across the Mideast, it is the majority view that ISIS is an American creation. Here, the Iranians make those accusations their official position.
"We believe that the West has been influential in the creation of ISIS"
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#32. To: TooConservative, redleghunter (#25)
Not all in the patch are equally endowed. And the riches of oil are a very new phenomena in your recitation of the history of the region. Who actually owns what? Why? It appears that ISIS would not be the force that it is without its access to the cash that oil brings them. But more to your point - which IMO elaborates on the reason(s) why the Middle East will be a world of sh*t and therefore an existenail threat to the West for the foreseeable future. The Islamic culture for the most part is alien to Western thought and experience. The prosecution of its grudges are beyond any comprehensible measure of rationality, even to Siclians and Albanians. Its view, if not its hope for the future, is that of looking backwards. It rejects much of the civilized world's embrace of modernity and improvement thereof. I used to believe that the answer to peaceful coexistance, other than at the ends of two bombs of similarly armed cultures that aimed at the other's each core existance, was simply to sincerely believe and tell each other that "I want for your children the same things that I want for mine." I really believed this up until it became apparent the Islam doesn't want for its daughters what I want for mine. Nor does it want for its sons as I would want for mine. Perhaps both East and West are corrupt beyond redemption. Perhaps neither pursue the betterment of mankind that strives for a future where liberty, freedom, compassion, justice and tolerance are the overarching values of the society. But as I said, if it comes down to a matter of survival between them or us, I choose us. Once Iran obtains nukes the world will change forever, and IMO not for the better. I still advocate that if Iran gets nukes the West should proivde the same to every country in the region, and I do mean every one. If your description of the major distrust and animosities among the well delineated tribes in the region it is likley that they would use the nukes to settle ancient scores in their backyard before striking out to gain additional territory. I am becoming increasingly more of a fan of China for managing to sit on the sidelines and watch the death struggle within the MidEast and between the Mideast and the West play out. China seems to be in the best position to pick up the pieces after the demise of both Mideast and Westerns economies and cultures, whether swiftly by a big boom or evolutionary by economic and cultural degradation. In any evernt, I don't believe that we ave to learn much, if anything, about the important and unimportant pissants of the Mideast. It is incumbant upon them to clean out those that foul in there regional nest - much in the same way the U.S> dealt with the KKK. IMO the West doesn't need to choose sides among the regional players as all will eventually turn on us. IMO the West should do everything in its power to precipate and fuel a major Civil War in the region even if that means aiding and abetting those that we already know are not our friends but are yet not presently aggressive enemies. I do not see any other way or outcome, other than an overt act of God, to resolve what is an ancient problem being fought with modern weapons. The West will eventually have to deal with nationalistic Islam in a most violent way. "So little redeeming quality remaining of the ancient empires of the region who at least managed peaceful trade and relative domestic tranquility and a stable social order." I remind you that this so called peaceful trade and relative tranquility and a stable social order came at sword point of a very empirial Islam which literally destroyed some cultures in its pursuits.
потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
Yes it is called the land of Babylon for a reason:)
"Now godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out." (1 Timothy 6:6-7)
You've recognized what Ronald Reagan called the fundamental irrationality of Mideast politics and diplomacy. A game where the only way to win is not to play. History has rigged it for disaster and tragedy. Brits and Americans have only made it worse.
The article inquired why Iranians believed the West/ ISIS was created by the U.S. “We believe that the West has been influential in the creation of ISIS for a number of reasons. Iran has experienced a coup run out of the U.S. embassy and war by Iraq funded by the U.S. They are likely to consider that the U.S funded al Qaeda, and that ISIS is derived from al Qaeda, and discount any claims of the U.S. The alleged acts of ISIS are so outrageous that they scream for a U.S. military involvement in the area. Cui bono? To whose benefit?
I was watching FNC tonight and they mentioned that, after cancelling the leaked plan to go on offensive against Mosul, now the Iraqis have announced that they will be making a preliminary attack on Tikrit, Saddam's hometown and a hotbed of Ba'athist revanchists and former top members of Saddam's regime (his wife's relatives). And who is joining these Shi'a militias and the 20,000+ Iraqi army soldiers? Iran's Quds artillery units. So Iran is going to have boots (or at least artillery) on the ground in assaulting Tikrit. Which leaves me wondering if the plan might be to leave Tikrit in the same shape as Vlad Putin left the Chechen capital, Grozny. IOW, a lifeless moonscape, flattened like a pancake. And in other news of our ongoing glorious victories, you may recall how we were going to train and arm the "secular Syrian rebels" (actually another bunch of Sunni suspect militia), and we had one specific militia with thousands of fighters signed up for arms and training. Well, they suddenly disbanded today and completely disappeared. And al-Nusra swooped in a scooped up the (old) weapons we had already provided them with. It's just one happy victory after the next for Commander Barky and his faithful butler, Lurch. I can only hope that Bibi takes a moment to congratulate Barky and Lurch on these triumphs of their policy during his speech tomorrow. Some withering sarcasm would be epic.
Valid point. I was pursuing the more general charges we hear from the conspiracy-minded that bin Laden was always a CIA asset and that 9/11 was a Bush-directed massacre. As I said, we often ally with unsavory characters against a common enemy and, once that enemy is dispatched, our former ally fills the power vacuum and then turns into our new enemy because they were never our friends to begin with, merely other enemies of our enemy. So I was debunking the usual conspiracy mongering.
Quds artillery is interesting. The Quds have been in Iraq since the late 80s providing training and assistance with a now and then assassination squad. But rolling out their own artillery is something I have not heard of before.
"Now godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out." (1 Timothy 6:6-7)
Please use the honorific of Putin the Great. Also, Iran is now inside Iraq as an invited armed force. In olden days Europe such a fiasco by George Bush would be an occasion for an aide-de-camp to give him a hand gun with one bullet, a glass of sherry and an unoccupied room.
Reported on Greta's FNC show tonight. One of the old generals (or colonels) was talking about it. And how America was disinvited from participating or planning for the operation. Which is why they needed the support of Iranian artillery. Of course, Iraq's government and military have to be eager to show they can defend the country and do something on their own. Tikrit, the hometown of Saddam and so many of Saddam's top officials, is naturally a hotbed of Sunni/Ba'athist revanchism. Baghdad may have decided to make an example of Tikrit and what Sunni towns who cooperate with ISIS can expect to happen to them. And they won't want us close by to observe their actions too closely.
I agree. Sounds like they want to do some "extra-LOAC" activities here. Which means they won't want US UAS nor manned air support there to record the event. Goes back to a past discussion we had...How the Iraqi Shia government is still seeing the Baath party boogeyman. They still believe the phantom Baath is behind all evils.
"Now godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out." (1 Timothy 6:6-7)
It isn't irrational. Many of the commanders who left the Iraqi military suddenly in a lurch and led to the huge ISIS advance and the loss of Mosul were the remaining Ba'athist elements of the military. Baghdad was in a bad place with this situation. The Shi'a officers thought the Sunni Ba'athists were getting special treatment for promotions. But the Ba'athists were also the most professionalized and capable leaders (and also the most directly connected to Saddam's regime). This is a major element of why I constantly mention Ba'athist revanchism. I think Baghdad will be taking a Iraq-love-it-or-leave-it attitude. Being the Mideast, this will work out in practice as Iraq-love-it-or-leave-it-or-we'll-kill-throw-you-and-your-family-into-a-woodchipper. Or do the equivalent using artillery and bombs. The recruiting of the Shi'a militia to work alongside the Iraqi army is not a good sign for the ISIS rebels but especially for the Sunni towns they are occupying which mostly welcomed them in. I wouldn't be surprised if Tikrit is a flat smoking pile of rubble when they get done with it.
Quds with artillery is interesting. Quds in Iraq is not so interesting. They have been there since after the Iranian revolution.
"Now godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out." (1 Timothy 6:6-7)
Could be. However, the Shia know that just about every one of their Shia shrines will now get special VBIED attention. If they level Tikrit, the Sunni (not ISIL) will level the Shia 'holy' places. And that is exactly what ISIL wants to happen. They want what is left of the Sunni fence sitters to willingly come over to them.
"Now godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out." (1 Timothy 6:6-7)
Shi'a mosques, maybe. But those are already taken for the Sunni. Tikrit is apparently a Sunni area anyway so the only mosques or shrines would be Sunni. I'm not sure how many Shi'a shrines or mosques have survived in the Sunni towns, especially those in ISIS's hands. Probably none from what we see of their vandalism. Most of the shrines of any sectarian flavor are in the south and are pretty safe. And the local townsmen value any shrine for the pilgrim traffic they draw in, just like people in Rome like having their big local tourist trap to draw the pilgrims. Tikrit was a small town in the Ottoman era and apparently grew to 250K after Saddam made it prominent and prosperous. Although Saladin was born there, he didn't live there and he is buried in Syria. I can find no list of shrines there. They have (or had) a university and a museum and a stadium for 10K. The museum has been wrecked and the 8th century Assyrian church destroyed. Baghdad may be in the mood for some payback in Tikrit. On 25 September 2014, Islamist militants destroyed the Assyrian Church there that dates back to 700 AD. Notice the particular mention of the Ba'athist revanchists in Tikrit.
ISIS is claiming an American jihadi carried out a truck bomb attack on Iraqi troops at Tikrit.
What I meant was Shia shrines in Shia areas will be leveled. The Sunnis know how to infiltrate and conduct these terror attacks..Trust me.
"Now godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out." (1 Timothy 6:6-7)
Watch and wait...I think it won't go well for the Iraqi army again in Tikrit.
"Now godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out." (1 Timothy 6:6-7)
Samarra is another fault line city. It was the golden mosque bombing in Samarra (Shia mosque) which ignited the 2006 sectarian war.
"Now godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out." (1 Timothy 6:6-7)
Yahoo is reporting: Iranian military commander Qassem Soleimani, who has helped coordinate Baghdad's counter-attacks against Islamic State since it seized much of northern Iraq in June, was overseeing at least part of the operation, witnesses told Reuters. His presence on the frontline highlights neighboring Iran's influence over the Shi'ite fighters who have been key to containing the militants in Iraq. In contrast the U.S.-led air coalition which has been attacking Islamic State across Iraq and Syria has not yet played a role in Tikrit, the Pentagon said on Monday, perhaps in part because of the high-level Iranian presence. Iraqi military officials said security forces backed by the Shi'ite militia known as Hashid Shaabi (Popular Mobilisation) units were advancing gradually, their progress slowed by roadside bombs and snipers. Unfortunately, I don't see any better photos than these but that last one might interest you. Looks like a tank-sized gun but I'm not seeing very many shells at hand. I think the Iraqis only got the Shi'a militias onboard by agreeing to let the Iranian commander run most of the show, or at least the parts the Shi'a militia are involved in. Which is why they knew better than to invite us. Apparently, they are trying to encircle Tikrit and some outlying villages and seal them off so no ISIS fighters escape from there.
I'm thinking they will persevere and win. At some point, Iraq has to stand up for itself or it will lose the confidence of the populace. Which is why I mention that they might level Tikrit. Even that would be far better than losing again. And only the Ba'athists would really miss Tikrit anyway. All of the most hated regime figures came from there. And the Iranians don't? They do pretty well at it around the region.
I think the Iraqis only got the Shi'a militias onboard by agreeing to let the Iranian commander run most of the show, or at least the parts the Shi'a militia are involved in. Which is why they knew better than to invite us. Apparently, they are trying to encircle Tikrit and some outlying villages and seal them off so no ISIS fighters escape from there. Bottom pic looks to be one of the M198 155mm howitzers we sold them a few years ago. Given the flat elevation of the tube they are probably firing the howizer in the direct fire mode. Which is a waste of an effective indirect fire weapon system. Interesting use of a modified M63 rocket launcher for the 120mm rockets (as confirmed by my Intel expert sitting next to me BTW). Know those well from the receiving end. Insurgents used car jacks to launch them against our FOBs. Here's some vid:
"Now godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out." (1 Timothy 6:6-7)
Which is why I mention that they might level Tikrit. Even that would be far better than losing again. And only the Ba'athists would really miss Tikrit anyway. All of the most hated regime figures came from there. If they persevere then they are going to have to hold the area. We have learned all too well that winning a battle and then not holding what you fought for. That is why the Petraeus principle changed things over there especially in Baghdad. With the clear, hold, secure, transition principles.
"Now godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out." (1 Timothy 6:6-7)
Yeah, I thought those would interest you. I didn't think you'd be as impressed with the cannon as I somehow think of you more as a self-propelled howitzer guy. Or a battery of howitzers kind of guy as long as they have all the GPS and computer doo-dads. BTW, that cargo wagon sitting in front of the howitzer in direct line of fire, surely that isn't where they are keeping their stock of cannon shells, is it? You would think they could not have failed to observe the American tactics and what worked and what didn't.
Don't think so. Does not look like a good projo trailer. Probably has their field kitchen for chow:) Plus having projos in the howitzer danger area echo is not smart. Plus, I can guarantee the next round they fired produced flames in the bore evacuator. I see no bucket of water to swap the breech block after every round. Sloppy artillerymen like the Russians:)
"Now godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out." (1 Timothy 6:6-7)
Yeah but the Russians make equipment specifically to be Russian-proof. They learned that long ago. Us? Not so much. I'm still trying to figure out what those structures are in the background.
BTW, sorry I couldn't get you a bigger pic. Damned cheap-ass Reuters!
It looks to be the type of security fencing used in the Saddam era ammunition depot sites. Came across that type of fencing when my unit was tasked to use our ammo trucks to move out regime ammo from areas it could be pilfered. We trucked them to ammo depots for demolition.
"Now godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out." (1 Timothy 6:6-7)
Looks like crazy fencing to me but we can't see it well in the pix.
Hot damn. They added more video including some of the site we were discussing. I can see that rectangular building better but still have no idea what it is. You'll have to stop the vid or it will start playing some footage from Bibi Gone Wild.
Thought I recognized the area. Think they are near the mill close to Tikrit AB. Much better howitzer crew drill. One crew yanked the lanyard a bit too hard but at least they have the tubes elevated this time. Maybe they are lurking here:)
"Now godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out." (1 Timothy 6:6-7)
I knew you'd like the vid.
There will be a lot of that in my Sunni-Shia Thirty Years War vision!
You are remarkably fond of your vision of a Mideast in flames. : ) I noticed on FNC today some reporting on Iran's cooperation with Iraq in the Tikrit assault. They mentioned General Soleimani as working with the Shi'a militia and artillery but FNC didn't specify if that was Iraqi or Iranian artillery or both. They mentioned the presence of Iran's Revolutionary Guards but made no mention of fighters. I got the impression that they were serving as technical advisers (instead of us) or serving as staff and field officers for the various Shi'a militia. As I noted some time back, General Soleimani is a very interesting character (beyond his strong resemblance to Sean Connery in The Hunt For Red October).
On pics? Wow. I am thinking advisors for Quds. They are the top Iranian spec ops advisors and in a pinch do direct action and assassinations. So once again FNC et. al. get it wrong.
"Now godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out." (1 Timothy 6:6-7)
It is striking, isn't it? They could almost be identical brothers if Connery wasn't so much older. The Iranian is about 60, not too different than Connery when he made that movie, I think. The general did some weightlifting when he was young, as Connery did, and worked as a laborer until he was inspired to join the military by the preaching of a prominent protegé of the Ayatollah Khomeini. And we know this general has directed fighting and helps oversee Hezbollah in Lebanon (he was there just last month, I think) and in Syria as well as his duties in Iran and now in Iraq. Like I said, interesting fellow. He's been to all the flashpoints and has the entire Iranian military in his back pocket. Apparently he has drive and a charismatic military personality.
I found an map of the operations, courtesy of Wikipedia. Red may be familiar with the lay of the land shown.
Nice of them to put it in English:) You sure this was not some Iraq Army Vet sketching out his understanding of the fight? I was mainly in the Babil and Baghdad areas on my 3 OIF tours. But I did spend some time up at Tikrit AP.
"Now godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out." (1 Timothy 6:6-7)
Fox News alleged Quds were involved in fighting at Tikrit again this morning in a lead-up to an interview with General Keane. As far as I could tell, this amounted to no more than the presence of the general and his staff. They did mention his role in Yemen's recent Houthi victory. And in training Shi'a fighters in Iran to fight against American troops in Iraq. And a role leading Hezbollah when they ejected Israel from Lebanon years back. They mentioned that the general is not thehighest ranking Iranian general. But he is the only general who reports only to the Ayatollah and is accountable to no other military authority. A kind of commander-in-chief apparently. And yet he operates effectively in the Iranian interest throughout the region. When they're serious, they dispatch him to the area. Interesting portfolio. No doubt, Mossad and CIA track him very closely.
Could he be the 12th Imam Mahdi!:)
"Now godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out." (1 Timothy 6:6-7)
I found the FNC vid and interviews with Keane. They keep saying "Quds force" but apparently the general is what constitutes the entire "Quds force". So, FNC is playing Chicken Little here. FNC: Quds force leader, commanding Iraqi forces against ISIS, alarms Washington It is a James Rosen story with Hemmer apparently sprinkling on the Quds alarmism. I suppose that Hemmer would say that if the Quds commander is there, you can be sure other Quds elements are present. Still, not the same as proving that formations or even small teams of Quds operatives are present at Tikrit.
I think it was Nolu chan who posted how to resize an image smaller that was too large for posting here. Couldn't you just reverse the process to make this one larger?
“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”
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Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestThe oil patch just is not a simple place. We ain't in Kansas any more, Toto.
#33. To: TooConservative (#31)
#34. To: SOSO (#32)
I used to believe that the answer to peaceful coexistance, other than at the ends of two bombs of similarly armed cultures that aimed at the other's each core existance, was simply to sincerely believe and tell each other that "I want for your children the same things that I want for mine." I really believed this up until it became apparent the Islam doesn't want for its daughters what I want for mine. Nor does it want for its sons as I would want for mine.
#35. To: TooConservative, redleghunter, Pericles, Deckard, Vicomte13 (#4)
I take this as a given. While we can always claim our former allies have suddenly betrayed us, the international arena is full of various players, many with bad intent, with whom an American president may ally himself and which later comes back to bite us in the ass.
Abdullah Ganji, the managing-director of Javan newspaper, which is believed to closely reflect the views of the government and the powerful Iranian Revolutionary Guards, says that U.S. support for ISIS is in fact a way of ensuring Israel’s security and disrupting the Muslim world in the cause of advancing Western interests.
#36. To: redleghunter, SOSO, tomder55, sneakypete (#10)
#37. To: nolu chan (#35)
The article inquired why Iranians believed the West/ ISIS was created by the U.S.
#38. To: TooConservative (#36)
#39. To: TooConservative, redleghunter, SOSO, tomder55, sneakypete (#36)
(Edited)
So Iran is going to have boots (or at least artillery) on the ground in assaulting Tikrit. Which leaves me wondering if the plan might be to leave Tikrit in the same shape as Vlad Putin left the Chechen capital, Grozny. IOW, a lifeless moonscape, flattened like a pancake.
#40. To: redleghunter (#38)
But rolling out their own artillery is something I have not heard of before.
#41. To: TooConservative (#40)
Reported on Greta's FNC show tonight. One of the old generals (or colonels) was talking about it. And how America was disinvited from participating or planning for the operation. Which is why they needed the support of Iranian artillery.
#42. To: redleghunter (#41)
How the Iraqi Shia government is still seeing the Baath party boogeyman. They still believe the phantom Baath is behind all evils.
#43. To: Pericles, TooConservative (#39)
Also, Iran is now inside Iraq as an invited armed force.
#44. To: TooConservative (#42)
I wouldn't be surprised if Tikrit is a flat smoking pile of rubble when they get done with it.
#45. To: redleghunter (#44)
Could be. However, the Shia know that just about every one of their Shia shrines will now get special VBIED attention. If they level Tikrit, the Sunni (not ISIL) will level the Shia 'holy' places.
On 11 June 2014, during the Northern Iraq offensive, the Islamic State took control of the city aided by the Army of the Men of the Naqshbandi Order. Hours later the Iraqi army made an attempt to recapture the city, which resulted in heavy fighting. On 12 June, the Islamic State executed at least 1,566 Iraqi Air Force cadets from Camp Speicher at Tikrit. At the time of the attack there were between 4,000 and 11,000 unarmed cadets in the camp. The Iraqi government blamed the massacre on both ISIS and members of the Arab Socialist Ba'ath Party – Iraq Region. By July 2014, government forces had withdrawn from Tikrit.[21][22]
#46. To: redleghunter (#44)
#47. To: TooConservative (#45)
Shi'a mosques, maybe. But those are already taken for the Sunni. Tikrit is apparently a Sunni area anyway so the only mosques or shrines would be Sunni. I'm not sure how many Shi'a shrines or mosques have survived in the Sunni towns, especially those in ISIS's hands. Probably none from what we see of their vandalism.
#48. To: TooConservative (#45)
Notice the particular mention of the Ba'athist revanchists in Tikrit.
#49. To: TooConservative (#46)
Pro-IS social media accounts said the attack was carried out Monday near Samarra, the other main city in Salaheddin province, and released a picture they said was of Abu Dawud al-Amriki
#50. To: redleghunter (#44)
BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Thousands of Iraqi soldiers and Shi'ite militiamen sought to seal off Islamic State fighters in Tikrit and nearby towns on Tuesday, the second day of Iraq's biggest offensive yet against a stronghold of the radical Sunni Islamist militants. 
The cannon looks like Iraqi regulars to me but the pic is just too small to be sure.
#51. To: redleghunter (#48)
(Edited)
Watch and wait...I think it won't go well for the Iraqi army again in Tikrit.
The Sunnis know how to infiltrate and conduct these terror attacks..Trust me.
#52. To: TooConservative, GarySpFc, *Military or Vets Affairs* (#50)
The cannon looks like Iraqi regulars to me but the pic is just too small to be sure.
#53. To: TooConservative, GarySpFc (#51)
I'm thinking they will persevere and win. At some point, Iraq has to stand up for itself or it will lose the confidence of the populace.
#54. To: redleghunter (#52)
(Edited)
Interesting use of a modified M63 rocket launcher for the 120mm rockets (as confirmed by my Intel expert sitting next to me BTW). Know those well from the receiving end. Insurgents used car jacks to launch them against our FOBs.
That is why the Petraeus principle changed things over there especially in Baghdad. With the clear, hold, secure, transition principles.
#55. To: TooConservative, GarySpFc (#54)
BTW, that cargo wagon sitting in front of the howitzer in direct line of fire, surely that isn't where they are keeping their stock of cannon shells, is it?
#56. To: redleghunter (#55)
(Edited)
Sloppy artillerymen like the Russians:)
#57. To: redleghunter (#55)
#58. To: TooConservative (#56)
I'm still trying to figure out what those structures are in the background.
#59. To: redleghunter (#58)
#60. To: redleghunter (#58)
#61. To: TooConservative (#60)
#62. To: redleghunter (#61)
#63. To: TooConservative (#36)
So Iran is going to have boots (or at least artillery) on the ground in assaulting Tikrit. Which leaves me wondering if the plan might be to leave Tikrit in the same shape as Vlad Putin left the Chechen capital, Grozny. IOW, a lifeless moonscape, flattened like a pancake.
#64. To: nativist nationalist, redleghunter (#63)
(Edited)
There will be a lot of that in my Sunni-Shia Thirty Years War vision!
#65. To: TooConservative (#64)
#66. To: redleghunter (#65)
On pics? Wow.
#67. To: TooConservative, redleghunter (#64)
#68. To: nativist nationalist, TooConservative (#67)
I found an map of the operations, courtesy of Wikipedia. Red may be familiar with the lay of the land shown.
#69. To: redleghunter, nativist nationalist (#68)
#70. To: TooConservative (#69)
#71. To: redleghunter (#70)
#72. To: TooConservative (#50)
The cannon looks like Iraqi regulars to me but the pic is just too small to be sure.
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